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Things I Like - The Mafia Game - Game Over

giraffelasergun

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 20, 2010
Messages
1,173
Vote Count 3.3

HeuryAlone (1): FrozenFlame
Wam (1) Malakandra
Not Voting (6): fontisian, #HBC | Kary, LaserGuy, HeuryAlone, Pythag, BoomFrog,

With 8 voters, it takes 5 votes to eliminate. Day 3 Deadline is 5 PM CST on Thursday the 24th.
 

fontisian

Smash Champion
Joined
Apr 3, 2020
Messages
2,012
I think the only way Laser could even possibly be scum here is if it was with Synchronicity. Two completely opposing view points and both speaking them out. Synch votes Wam after Laser says lynching for info is the losing move, and Lasers vote is on Synch, but it’s merely a backup for his place in the underground city he’s building.

I don’t think it’s natural to both speak those out and move on them in such a weird timing.
Found the post where Chaco explains why Laser is only scum if Syn is also scum.
 

BoomFrog

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 23, 2020
Messages
1,493
Well Fonti, I guess you should have shot me. You underestimated my true power. You messed with the wrong Frog. And you yeeted my friend.
Grizzeled Merc Cyborg Frog.jpg


Before we really get into it, you have to remember, you have to judge a slot based on the standard set by the player. Fonti is famous for accurate deep reads, she has to keep that up as town and try to give out deep reads still. But she can't find scum, she doesn't want to bus, so she has to find town and give a few hard town reads over the course of the game. Some of those are her scummates, but some of those have to be real town. But she can't go against them in LYLO so she needed to NE them to get them out of the way. That's why Chaco was NEed. Fonti has been hard town reading Chaco, but Laser and I are much more potentially yeetable. People are les sure about us. So Chaco has to go first.

But too many town reads paints Fonti into a corner. She can't actually find scum, so she has to go into this "frusterated" I don't know where to go attitude and "end up" on yeets that she "didn't want". town!Fonti would be trying to build up a true town core of trusted players, but look at the state of the game. Very few people are trusting eachother. Part of that is Fonti repeatedly trying to sow doubt when one player gets a hard town read on another player. Look at how Day 3 has gone so far. She should be trying to get a town core together, but it's just a bunch of poking holes in theories and feeding uncertainty.
278 "Chaco is 'caught for the wrong reasons'?" tries to get me to question my town!Chaco early read https://smashboards.com/threads/thi...-23rd-at-5-pm-cst.507224/page-7#post-24082262
295 "Clarifies, not actually saying Chaco is scum, just everyone should think about it. But Fonti never gives her own opinion." https://smashboards.com/threads/thi...-23rd-at-5-pm-cst.507224/page-8#post-24082296
297 "To DH: But Chaco could be scum, right?" https://smashboards.com/threads/thi...-23rd-at-5-pm-cst.507224/page-8#post-24082298
305 "To DH: Your logic for why Chaco is town is invalid, also, did you look for scum pushing Chaco if Chaco is town?" https://smashboards.com/threads/thi...-23rd-at-5-pm-cst.507224/page-8#post-24082313
867 "Don't blame anyone for voting Somi except Boom" https://smashboards.com/threads/thi...23rd-at-5-pm-cst.507224/page-22#post-24087872
875 Pokes holes in DH's town read of Mala based on EoD1 tone https://smashboards.com/threads/thi...23rd-at-5-pm-cst.507224/page-22#post-24087948
882 Continues to argue that Mala can fake tone https://smashboards.com/threads/thi...23rd-at-5-pm-cst.507224/page-23#post-24087974
974 Points out Laser tunneled in Midnight Ops in order to poke holes in Chaco's town read of Laser https://smashboards.com/threads/thi...23rd-at-5-pm-cst.507224/page-25#post-24088631
995 Disparages the Sync notes as a town tell without actually having read them https://smashboards.com/threads/thi...23rd-at-5-pm-cst.507224/page-25#post-24088702
1082 Says notes can be faked without actually trying to analyze if Sync notes feel faked or not https://smashboards.com/threads/thi...23rd-at-5-pm-cst.507224/page-28#post-24089148
1119 Analyses the notes, seems to mostly say they look townie, but concludes that LG is scummy for town reading too fast from the notes. https://smashboards.com/threads/thi...23rd-at-5-pm-cst.507224/page-28#post-24089375
1127 Disparages my read saying the notes must have already existed before they were posted. https://smashboards.com/threads/thi...23rd-at-5-pm-cst.507224/page-29#post-24089386
1133 Uses note-gate to say Laser is scummy for town reading Sync too fast https://smashboards.com/threads/thi...23rd-at-5-pm-cst.507224/page-29#post-24089392
1208 Pokes holes in Kary's assertion that Wam-Boom is impossible based on EoD1 https://smashboards.com/threads/thi...23rd-at-5-pm-cst.507224/page-31#post-24089776
1468 Pokes holes in Kary's town read of Mala https://smashboards.com/threads/thi...23rd-at-5-pm-cst.507224/page-37#post-24091626
1647 Likes my post ripping into Kary's reads https://smashboards.com/threads/thi...23rd-at-5-pm-cst.507224/page-42#post-24092973
1681 Continues to try and poke holes in Mala's solid town!Boom read https://smashboards.com/threads/thi...23rd-at-5-pm-cst.507224/page-43#post-24093099
1700 And some more [Note this is a critical EoD time when, in theory, Fonti doesn't like either wagon] https://smashboards.com/threads/thi...23rd-at-5-pm-cst.507224/page-43#post-24093186

For completeness here's the times Fonti seriously encouraged a town read. Most obvious is why Chaco had to die. She has been vocally town reading them and couldn't walk that back.
Frozen:
180 "Less Slimy" https://smashboards.com/threads/thi...-23rd-at-5-pm-cst.507224/page-5#post-24081497
293 "Frozen's Flag in the Sand post was townie for unique thought" https://smashboards.com/threads/thi...-23rd-at-5-pm-cst.507224/page-8#post-24082292
324 "Naked Frozen town read" https://smashboards.com/threads/thi...-23rd-at-5-pm-cst.507224/page-9#post-24082374
402 Fonti gives a strong FF is town read of FF's vote on wam. Main point is tone and that scum!FF wouldn't go after someone who is already under so much fire. https://smashboards.com/threads/thi...23rd-at-5-pm-cst.507224/page-11#post-24082786

Chaco:
312 "This Chaco post is townie" https://smashboards.com/threads/thi...-23rd-at-5-pm-cst.507224/page-8#post-24082328
430 Fonti deflates Kary's scum read on Chaco https://smashboards.com/threads/thi...23rd-at-5-pm-cst.507224/page-11#post-24083135
458 Fonti defends Chaco from Kary [consistant with currently town reading Kary and Chaco as indicated earlier] https://smashboards.com/threads/thi...23rd-at-5-pm-cst.507224/page-12#post-24083281
465 Encourages town colaboration between Chaco and FF https://smashboards.com/threads/thi...23rd-at-5-pm-cst.507224/page-12#post-24083292
469 Explains town read of Chaco to DH https://smashboards.com/threads/thi...23rd-at-5-pm-cst.507224/page-12#post-24083315
551 Defends Chaco against LG but tries to engage LG as potentially town https://smashboards.com/threads/thi...23rd-at-5-pm-cst.507224/page-14#post-24084562
617 Tries to bring Kary over to a town read of Chaco https://smashboards.com/threads/thi...23rd-at-5-pm-cst.507224/page-16#post-24084864
1514 Quotes Sabrar to reenforce Chaco is town read https://smashboards.com/threads/thi...23rd-at-5-pm-cst.507224/page-38#post-24091960

Kary:
827 Defends Kary vs flash yeet potential https://smashboards.com/threads/thi...23rd-at-5-pm-cst.507224/page-21#post-24085404

Mala:
336 Town reads Mala on tone https://smashboards.com/threads/thi...-23rd-at-5-pm-cst.507224/page-9#post-24082437

Sabrar:
474 Defends Sabrar to FF https://smashboards.com/threads/thi...23rd-at-5-pm-cst.507224/page-12#post-24083329
475 Town read of Sabrar https://smashboards.com/threads/thi...23rd-at-5-pm-cst.507224/page-12#post-24083332

Wam:
892 Pokes holes in Mala's case on Wam https://smashboards.com/threads/thi...23rd-at-5-pm-cst.507224/page-23#post-24088005

DH:
1404 DH must just be town since everyone says they are town https://smashboards.com/threads/thi...23rd-at-5-pm-cst.507224/page-36#post-24091334

639 Town read every strong player in the game https://smashboards.com/threads/thi...23rd-at-5-pm-cst.507224/page-16#post-24084988
779 Pillars of town post https://smashboards.com/threads/thi...24th-at-5-pm-cst.507224/page-20#post-24085298
The worst offence is the D1 pillars of town post with Sync on it, but then she backs off defending Sync D2 for little reason. Either her D1 read wasn't as strong as she claims or she should have been defending Sync a lot harder throughout D2. In fact her whole interaction with Sync D2 is very off. The "BoomFrog is distracting me from defending Sync" incident. Early D2 Fonti is only weakly town reading Sync even though nothing has changed since D1 except the Somi flip, and that's not a factor in any read Fonti give of Sync. Sync challenges her on it, she starts town reading him and stops because she is tired and feels like she might be being manipulated. I do believe she was tired, but it was also a good excuse to stop reading and defending sync. Then the next day I'm defending Sync and she says "I'm trying to distract her from defending Sync by being so obviously scummy and partnery." A very TMI read since it assumes Sync and I are not actual partners, but I've been making allowances that a player of Fonti's caliber will make subtle reads that feel TMI. But what she does with the read is the red flag. Instead of defending Sync (the thing she thinks scum is trying to distract her from) she uses it only to attack me. And then when LaserGuy makes a case on her the same thing is repeated, LG is a distraction, but she spends two huge posts defending against the case and not defending Sync. I call her out, and she still mixes around giving light reads on Sync while attacking LG and I. Town!Fonti would concentrate on the Sync reread because the main concern is if this popular yeet is a good yeet. But Fonti is more concerned with making sure she isn't a target then in actually defending her town reads. (same as when Fonti only cared about Kary's read on Fonti, not anything else).

So finally we get to the good part. End of Day. Fonti finally gives a read of Sync and it's "Ehh, kinda townie for these obscure reasons. Oh, but I wouldn't be surprised if they flip scum. And all my town reads want this yeet so what can little ol' me do?" I bad defense, but fine, it's okay for Fonti to be unsure. However, when I ask why she never defended Sync she says, "I did". A blatant lie, but stunning enough to deflect criticism until the yeet is clinched. Fonti never gave a real defense of Sync. A valid response would have been, "I did a reread and couldn't find enough that was defensible." But Fonti did not ever actually defend Sync, and the "LG and Boom are distracting me" and "it's late" were just excuses to not actually be accountable for the bad yeet.

1136 Says Sync is not a solid town read anymore and Fonti is unsure she wants to defend them. https://smashboards.com/threads/thi...23rd-at-5-pm-cst.507224/page-29#post-24089397
1141 Meandering Sync read that ends up on the townie side https://smashboards.com/threads/thi...23rd-at-5-pm-cst.507224/page-29#post-24089406
1142 "I think there's a small chance you're pushing me more when I'm tired to commit to a townread on you and convince myself of it, so I'm stopping here for tonight." https://smashboards.com/threads/thi...23rd-at-5-pm-cst.507224/page-29#post-24089407
1143 Posts a mildly towny quote from Sync as the reason Fonti town read Sync but does not elaborate [So it won't convince anyone else] https://smashboards.com/threads/thi...23rd-at-5-pm-cst.507224/page-29#post-24089410
1206 Says to Kary that Fonti isn't confident enough on Sync to defend them against Kary https://smashboards.com/threads/thi...23rd-at-5-pm-cst.507224/page-31#post-24089770
1313 "I feel like Boom is trying to bait me into thinking Syn is his partner." https://smashboards.com/threads/thi...23rd-at-5-pm-cst.507224/page-33#post-24090537
1387 Long defense against LaserGuys's case, votes laserguy and says Laser and I are both trying to distract Fonti from defending Sync https://smashboards.com/threads/thi...23rd-at-5-pm-cst.507224/page-35#post-24091139
1395 I post saying, "Just defend Sync already." https://smashboards.com/threads/thi...23rd-at-5-pm-cst.507224/page-35#post-24091294
1409 "Bessie's notes must be real" https://smashboards.com/threads/thi...23rd-at-5-pm-cst.507224/page-36#post-24091359
1410 Analysing LaserGuys reads https://smashboards.com/threads/thi...23rd-at-5-pm-cst.507224/page-36#post-24091370
1411 Analysis Sync+Frozen dialogue, concludes slightly townie for Sync https://smashboards.com/threads/thi...23rd-at-5-pm-cst.507224/page-36#post-24091382
1412 More arguing with LaserGuy https://smashboards.com/threads/thi...23rd-at-5-pm-cst.507224/page-36#post-24091395
1415 Arguing with laser https://smashboards.com/threads/thi...23rd-at-5-pm-cst.507224/page-36#post-24091403
1416 Questioning me https://smashboards.com/threads/thi...23rd-at-5-pm-cst.507224/page-36#post-24091406
1469 Fonti leaning towards voting for Sync https://smashboards.com/threads/thi...23rd-at-5-pm-cst.507224/page-37#post-24091633
1516 Posts about wam being town. [Note the yeet is clearly between Sync and wam at this point https://smashboards.com/threads/thi...23rd-at-5-pm-cst.507224/page-38#post-24091964
1517 A Full reads list with a meandering read on Sync that ends up at a tenuious "probably town" and puts them at the mid of the list. https://smashboards.com/threads/thi...23rd-at-5-pm-cst.507224/page-38#post-24091977
1518 An explination of the Sync read, and a long list of "weird" behaviour and "weird, but maybe in a town way, because they really need all the help and wifom they can get now." https://smashboards.com/threads/thi...23rd-at-5-pm-cst.507224/page-38#post-24091980
1519 I wouldn't be shocked if Syn was a hit, and could see myself conceding to my townreads here. I would, however, like all of #HBC | Kary #HBC | Kary #HBC | FrozeηFlame #HBC | FrozeηFlame and Chaco Chaco to really consider this and what scum!Syn is trying to do here first. https://smashboards.com/threads/thi...23rd-at-5-pm-cst.507224/page-38#post-24091981
1626 "I'm going to vote Sync over wam" https://smashboards.com/threads/thi...23rd-at-5-pm-cst.507224/page-41#post-24092843
1633 "My town reads will freak out if we don't kill Syn" https://smashboards.com/threads/thi...23rd-at-5-pm-cst.507224/page-41#post-24092887
Lastly are some little bits:

on D1 Fonti made several posts as if she expected to die N1. And later confirmed, she thought she would be NEed. But did anyone else seriously thing she was anywhere close to a top town read? Sync and Sabrar were all much more town read and are potentially powerful townies.


Wam feels slightly more towny. My townreads all want to kill Syn and will probably freak out if we dont.
This is such a bad reason to support a yeet and I hate it with fire. But it especially doesn't jive with the fact that when Sync acted based on the exact same principle Fonti was against it. Sync didn't fight so that Syncs town reads could get over their slot and move on. But to that idea Fonti said they hate it.

So, first, what do you mean about going around in circles? I feel like you haven't been going in circles at all, you've been pushing me for like 3 straight Days?
This is a bad read on wam. Obviously wam has been the 2nd choice yeet 2 Days in a row. And he thought Sync was scum and now has to reconsider. Everyone (except apparently Kary) should be feeling lost D3. It's odd that Fonti doesn't sympathize.
Uh, didn't really care about the other reads when I was already townreading him
Fonti was "lost and frustrated" near the end of D2. And yet, when Kary posts her reads Fonti says she didn't scrutinize them because she was confident that Kary was town. These two thoughts don't coexist at the same time in a townie:
Boom feels town. I hate everything.
Uh, didn't really care about the other reads when I was already townreading him
In summery:
This is a lie.

I'm going to hammer you.
I'm not sure if you're familiar with the concept of "caught for the wrong reasons." It's the idea that scum tend get mad when they accused but feel the case itself isn't correct (Frozen in Midnight Ops is a good example) compared to the town reaction of just genuinely not getting why they're being pushed.
 

fontisian

Smash Champion
Joined
Apr 3, 2020
Messages
2,012
Chaco on Wam D1:
Wam:




This initially struck me as odd, but due to unfamiliarity with the sites playstyles I was fine with it overall. 0



This post is fine until the last part. It’s almost altruistic when it’s obvious Boom is joking.




I actually thought the top question was a good question and was glad he asked it because it reinforced the read of Mala. Then we go into following the leader, this time it’s FF. -1



I’m going to mark this as null, but I find it extraordinarily odd that he feels the need to clarify that his vote is now serious. 0



Actually a good inquisitive post from Wam. If I look back and see someone else asked it first I will retract the positive point here. +



This is where the parrot starts to really roost. I find it extremely odd that he almost commentates his following of players. That’s why it almost feels innocent to me, nonetheless negative for following again . -1



Curiously enough again we are back to the serious vote question out of the blue. I’m starting to see a trend of where his veteran time frame of play doesn’t equal veteran play. Marking this as null for now. 0



Unsubstantiated claim again. -1



I wouldn’t normally have a problem with someone saying I thought this too, but in my opinion it was fairly clear that I hadn’t produced a read on Boom. Kary misunderstanding is one thing, and anyone else saying that I would be like okay cool, but it’s the trend of following other people’s reads and opinions that is troubling. -1



Besides this post being very hard to understand from formatting, I’m starting to see some parallels here. Subtle misspelled words, wording jumbled, etc. Could be indicative of phone usage or what I think is more likely is that they are struggling to acclimate and understand this game. Therefore the mirroring of reads and following. What is troubling here is the initial following of FF and then saying they don’t have enough to go off of in them. And saying I Like DarkHorses placement does I’m gonna use that one here. Or Kary placed me low and that’s not fair. I see some genuine things trying to shine through here. Nevertheless the negatives outweigh the positives. -1



This really bothers me because I believe they didn’t even check. You’re not gonna go skim some posts quickly and tell me that it doesn’t line up that fast, so I believe this is just another example of follow the leader. -1

Overall Score: -5

Conclusion: Although they mirror and parrot a lot, at this conjecture I want to believe it comes from genuine lack of understanding. That’s the secondary theme I picked up upon right after the content copying. Now if this doesn’t check out from @Sabrar LaserGuy LaserGuy BoomFrog BoomFrog @somitomi or any other X player, then I would be inclined to vote here from the reasoning above it is not typical of his play and this parroting is something new and my hypothesis is incorrect that there’s a lack of understanding.
That’s so hard to format on a phone. Excuse where the numbers got chopped off from editing the color. The correct score should be -6 from a post count of 11 quoted.
I disagree with Wam as a lynch target toDay. It’s not enough to go on into D2. We do need a narrowed PoE because I do not see any clear track right now. I stand behind Somi, I see no reason for anyone to be positively town reading them from what they’ve produced. But all the same, their lynch leaves minimal information. We literally have a case on Laser, Kary, Frozen, Wam, Somi, myself, and some flak aimed townwards Synchro.

I think a it of the head butting is TvT here.I knew going into this game that no one would be able to wolf it because there’s no room for it, it’s evident from all the players butting heads.

Ultimately I still suggest Somi though. Who here actually has a town read on Somi?
Well it’s deadline, so it is wagoning to Lynch. Look at what I just addressed at Mala. And differences between Wam and Somi is I legitimately saw some trying to solve from Wam when he made that jumbled wall about me. Somi I have not seen anything of the such, I mean the reads list he provided is entirely unsupported. And the appeal to towniness at the beginning of the game is so gross.
Cause of what I’m saying that Somi had the momentum probs. Wam had to much reasonable doubt.

Chaco on Wam Day 2:
Look at the Somi wagon, first off, see if any jumps onto it felt baseless and grimey. Then look at Wam’s wagon as well. I’m also going to look harder to Somis list now at the bottom where he said everyone that was against me, including me, was scummy. So obviously there’s some merit to that now.

But I’m gonna reread. I think I’ve got some mild food poisoning right now. So I may not do much this evening.
Malakandra Malakandra Can you explain the thought process on Fonti? Looking at Frozen already posting this much start of D2 it wants to reinforce my town read there further.

I need to look at who Sabrar was on besides Wam yesterDay.
But it goes further than that alone due to Lasers nudge at Synch, and Synch coming from a 100% Wam townread to a vote on him for info right after Laser says lynching for info is a bad move. It’s precarious timing, and it’s clear opposition.
Potential scum team:
Synchronicity, Laser, Mala/Boom

DH and Pythag don’t fit here imo, and Wam can’t coexist in a laser scum team either.

Do note the only person that Laser has truthfully pushed this game has been me. 3 man scum team most likely so why are you hellbent on me? When there would be two others if his hypothesis was correct? Showing a complete lack of game solve.

Im down for Sychron and Laser as of right now.
I put Mala Boom cause they’re the ones who fit this team best.
Wam Wam Can I somehow get a link to your most recent town play?
LaserGuy LaserGuy If Wam is scum here, what partners make sense with him?
I’m really bothered by the fact you didn’t mention anything on Synch and Laser, Boom. Lasers given plenty of back and forth movement there, and you list them as a potential, but only commentate on Sync’s flip flop of Wam.
Malakandra Malakandra Question for you: Do you think all scum were on Somi’s yeet? It seems that is the case. If so, can you tell me why you think that. And why it wouldn’t be an opposite case of where someone who tried to go the other route is scum? Why does wam have to be scum upon Somi’s townflip. Look at midnight D2?, the opposing wagons were Rajam and Boom, iirc. Both were town.
Malakandra Malakandra I think you’re oversimplifying here. Somi was clearly going to be lynched after the first votes came on when sabrar called for Wam votes. The counter wagon had already expressed interest in Wam at some point or was the lesser evil to them. If Wam is town, it completely destroys that whole premise cause they wouldn’t care who ends up lynched, it would be a ML regardless. Of course this is assuming a town flip on Wam. So my whole point here is I don’t think it’s at all within range to assume that until we have insight to Wam’s alignment. I understand that’s why you probably want to push him, but part of playing scum is knowing when you let town do the work for you.
@Synchronicity is flailing. I’ve seen them cast doubt on about every slot now. Easy to be safe when you’re open ended.

About Somi, look at the upswing momentum, it’s clear that Somi was going to be lynched. Wam caught up and tied it sure, but that was the last vote that was goin to be placed there. Normal circumstances of it not falling on Mala, Somi goes before it’s even thought about. It would ultimately fall back on reasonable Wam doubt again when there wasn’t that speculation on Somi. You act like me being blunt and saying it is a scummy take. Anything you can do to try and deviate what’s obvious to fit, huh?
DH
Frozen
Kary
Mala
Fonti
Wam

Boom
Pythag

Laser
Synch

Is kind’ve how my list falls rn. DH gave me so many town pings, Frozen did D1 but toDay haven’t seen much at all of him, I like how Kary is playing right now it’s abrasive and that’s hard to emulate as scum and not get cracked over the head eventually, Mala is town to me stuck in a logic loop, Fonti‘s play has been town overall, but I haven’t had the absolute moment of lock town yet (flips will help), Wam is PoE town right now and I just don’t feel he’s scum from tone and how this game has ran right now. I’m waiting for the Boom town pings but I haven’t gotten em yet, I always got them off of how he treated Xivii and with the Synch blend I haven’t seen em yet. Pythag is just a big question mark to me, like I haven’t seen anything that stands out one way or the other and he kind’ve just feels like he’s easy to forget this game. I’ve explained why I think Laser is scum and paired with Synch. Why they are at the bottom, my laser read is contingent fully on Synch flip though cause I feel like there’s been scum theatre and trying to fabricate tells here.
LaserGuy LaserGuy Thats inaccurate though because I spent D1 trying to sort Wam and spent a long time trying to figure that out. I don’t believe I’ve ever expressed interest in Wam toDay. Also, why has your sync read changed again and since when? Also you amended saying I seemed town when I caught Synch in a slip, so why am I still scum here?

And I can’t even begin to think you actually believe that the votes back onto you was a scum counterattack. That would be so blatant it would be dumb to do.

Give me something to work with here so I can figure you out, all you’ve done so far this game is tunnel hopped. Your progression really is nonexistent then you push out another hypothetical scum team from left field.

I still have to read your case on Fonti, but this post like literally gives me the giving up town vibe But at the same timeI feel it makes no sense coming from you.
ScumSynchro makes it clear on townWam. It’s a win win.
Wam has been on synchro all day and independently pushing them as well
Malakandra Malakandra Consider Wam is town for a moment, who would the scum team be?

Eh. I can kind of see it if I squint. Like, the Syn push is definitely partially based on how they flipped their read on Wam and voted him, and Chaco seemed to take that weirdly personally, but it's not like he was hard scumreading Wam at the end of Day 1 either.

Also, he probably doesn't say:
Wam Wam Can I somehow get a link to your most recent town play?
In the thread if he can just ask Wam in the neighbor chat. There are also a lot fewer question to Wam in general during D2 compared to D1, but that can be explained by Chaco looking for a base of information on Wam D1 and not needing to expand it after.
 

fontisian

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Not sure I have time to respond to everything right now, so I'm just going to shoot off some thoughts.

Overall, I actually like the case for Boom. Like, I feel like it's the closest to getting me anyone has gotten in the game, and that's kind of crazy, since the conclusion itself is off, heh.

I'll fully admit that I have failed at forming and maintaining a towncircle this game, and the main fault in that was me not stepping up to defend Syn when I needed to. And I didn't do that in part because I didn't think it was something I needed to do. I do think the Chaco kill can be /blamed/ on me, considering that he was Vt, very wrong about Syn and Somi, and through my influence still ended up being shot. That he was killed at all is partially a reflection of what I did well, in allowing him the space to be towny and for other people to develop townreads on him.

I didn't go into Syn's iso with the intention of defending them, I went in the with mixed feelings and logic and wanting to figure if I /wanted/ to go to bat for them. Because defending scum and poking holes in cases on them is one thing, but getting in the way of a strong, correct wagon on scum on D2 and throwing it off course is game throwing. And while I had a part of me feeling like they might be town, they were kind of dickish and weird and just tonally off so much. There was no thing that I could see like Xivii like I saw in Mignight where his thought process and paranoia was just laid to bare. I think he probably wasn't as invested in the game itself maybe, and those thoughts were posted in their hydra instead of here, so I couldn't get that tool to work with.

Part of this gets into why I felt hurt by them, but I got the impression me talking about that makes people uncomfortable, so I'm going to keep this limited. But like, I was trying to reach out to Bessie and Xivii to get them to give me something I would feel comfortable using to defend them. I asked about Bessie aggro because, in retrospect, the townie feeling I was getting from them was because Bessie was so, so different from Sumting, where she just kind of coasted along and didn't try to burn any bridges (this is not the idiom I want, but close enough) and part of that was Bessie had an issue with her eyes or something that made it so she couldn't keep up with everything, so I was expecting some differences, but not aggro pushed by her to that level. I also felt like I could not have made it more clear that I wanted them to help me help them through my questions and they just didn't pick up on it at all, so it's not surprising that Boom didn't pick up on it here, but it's like, **** man, I was trying so hard and no one even noticed, what the ****. I should move from this, sorry.

There's a point about me talking to Laser before the case. I did do that, for a few reasons. 1. I thought Laser was scum pushing me. 2.I can't really help it. When someone pushes me, and it's a strong, worked out case, I get like incensed? I start shaking and just want to get in and rip them a new asshole, and I have to hold myself back from doing that a lot. I'm feeling it now, though I'm in a better mood for irl reasons, and that's probably reflected in this. And I probably needed to hold myself back there, but I overestimated how much time I had to read Syn after, and only ended up getting through D1 of their iso as a result.

I think I ****ed up about not talking about the Neighbor thing more. Like, I think that was the thing that should have told me they were town, because Bessie and Xivii were super paranoid about town having role stuff in Sumting but they would never just throw it out there and straight up ask us, they'd talk themselves in circles and then shoot me or Frozen, 100% believing we had that role. But I justified that maybe they knew I'd remember that or maybe they didn't feel like neighbors were high priority shots anyway, so putting the role info out there didn't actually have a big risk of blowback, or maybe I misremember and Xivii did ask about a role in the thread in Sumting, because there's something kind of like that shape in my memory (my memory for specifics is garbage a lot of the time). But even if the read itself isn't fully accurate, it would have absolutely saved the game and I should have done the stupid MU thing where they keep repeating a point until people remember it instead of assuming that everyone has read it, considering it, and dismissed it as irrelevant.

What else? Kary. Uh, how to say this without being really rude? I don't like how Kary makes reads. I think they are town but will probably always be opposed to me on some level unless our reads end up in similar places by sheer random chance. I didn't consider anything they were saying about anyone to be very valuable to me, and I don't know their track record well enough to respect their reads independently. I'm still reading what they write, I just don't value it.
 

fontisian

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Re: Letting Chaco, Frozen and Kary have their way. This is something I talked to Gemma (my wife) about after our last game, where she was strongly townreading Waco and she let us yeet him in final 5 and didn't fight back against it, and I was really upset about it and ended up in this horrible, draining final 3 where posted like 10,000 words in a few Days, but sometimes if every town wants a yeet you just have to let it happen, because they're never going to get out of their tunnel. If she had fought back and overrode me and convinced me to kill Cobalt that Day we would not have won that game, because I would have killed Waco over Dels in final 3, and Waco probably would have killed me too. But by letting me choose who my absolute strongest townread was in Cobalt (and taking the strongest townread of the dead towns, Dels) we were able to win that final 3, because I could not bring myself to turn my back on my Cobalt!town read despite every dead person telling me to vote Dels.

If I fight the Syn yeet, if they give me what I need, and I believe strongly enough in it, even if they are town, then if we yeet elsewhere and don't hit scum and if I die in the Night or even I'm still there but another moderating voice dies, the game is just ****ed. Because Chaco and Frozen and Kary are still tunneling and they caved to me once and they wont do it again. And if any of them are scum, they keep getting away with it, the tunnel target it still there, they have no reason to push anything else.
 

BoomFrog

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fontisian fontisian I don't care that you didn't try to change Kary's mind. I'm bothered that you didn't re evaluate him when you were feeling lost. You lack townie paranoia.

And, all of that long post explains why you understand the, "sometimes it's townie to let townie die" mentality, so why were you against Sync saying they needed to die?
 

fontisian

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fontisian fontisian I don't care that you didn't try to change Kary's mind. I'm bothered that you didn't re evaluate him when you were feeling lost. You lack townie paranoia.

And, all of that long post explains why you understand the, "sometimes it's townie to let townie die" mentality, so why were you against Sync saying they needed to die?
Oh, that's super different. Town should never let /themselves/ die, because they're the only /they/ know is town. And like, never decide that your fellow town have given up on you. Believe in them, even if it feels hopeless, because with effort and honesty, they can be convinced. But that has to come from the person, not someone on the sidelines wondering if they know better.

I have this very weird mix of pessimism and optimism about town, heh.

Also, I wasn't feeling lost in that moment, I felt lost after the flip.
 
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fontisian

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Should I be talking more or should I be waiting here? Like, there are specific things I feel like I could talk about, but they're semanticy, and I feel like there more of value later.

Yeah, going to wait.
 

#HBC | Kary

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I mean it's always been in the back of my mind, but I thought they were doing good work right up until the end of D2. The lack of defending Sync and the bad reaction to Sync's case is what tipped me over.

...please tell me you're doing this intentionally...


However, when I ask why she never defended Sync she says, "I did". A blatant lie, but stunning enough to deflect criticism until the yeet is clinched.
I don't feel like you had a 'stunned' reaction or ever followed up this 'blatant lie' so did you just not notice it at the time, or what?
 

fontisian

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...please tell me you're doing this intentionally...



I don't feel like you had a 'stunned' reaction or ever followed up this 'blatant lie' so did you just not notice it at the time, or what?
Uh, it's not a lie, he literally quoted the posts where I defended Syn. The defense not being super strong doesn't mean it didn't exist.
 

LaserGuy

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I'm kind of curious about why this specifically was your first response, but I think it's best to let Boom play this out how he wants it to go. We can talk about this after.
It has to do with my meta evaluation of BoomFrog moreso than it does you. I'll talk about this when it's my turn.

Oh.

That sucks? I was half hoping there were going to drop a case I could sheep.
In the meantime, can you talk to me about this comment? Why did you feel both comfortable voting for Sync as well as sheeping a case of theirs?
 

fontisian

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It has to do with my meta evaluation of BoomFrog moreso than it does you. I'll talk about this when it's my turn.



In the meantime, can you talk to me about this comment? Why did you feel both comfortable voting for Sync as well as sheeping a case of theirs?
If they dropped a sheepable case I wouldn't have been comfortable voting them.
 

fontisian

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The actual purpose of the statement itself was to drive them towards that, though, as well. If they're scum, they get the impression that I might be willing to help them, so it encourages them to make a solid case against a town (bussing becomes riskier) and that's then easier for me to read. If they're town, I want them to lead me to a scum yeet and solve the two problems of not being sure if I want to yeet them and not having a better place to yeet, since, iirc, I wasn't comfortable killing you at that point either.
 

BoomFrog

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...please tell me you're doing this intentionally...
Probably town but I'm going to make myself crazy about it all game
Synchronicity
Fontisian
Sorry Kary, I've played almost every card at this point.

I don't feel like you had a 'stunned' reaction or ever followed up this 'blatant lie' so did you just not notice it at the time, or what?
I took it at face value and didn't realized the inconsistency until during the night phase while I was stewing about all the reasons I should have seen Fonti was scum.
 

fontisian

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It's like the difference between thinking my feelings are wrong somewhere and knowing they're wrong /everywhere/. The first is normal jitters, the second is like heartsickness.
 

Malakandra

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I believe this is Mala's 3rd game of forum mafia. IIRC he has some experience in one of the other mafia-like variants the names of which I can never keep straight.
Voice Chat Secret Hitler and Blood on the clocktower primarily.

Look at me checking the thread at a good time, well, cept I'm apparently banned from talkin about something till later, but thats ok I guess.
 

fontisian

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Voice Chat Secret Hitler and Blood on the clocktower primarily.

Look at me checking the thread at a good time, well, cept I'm apparently banned from talkin about something till later, but thats ok I guess.
Just pretend you're not here.

Even though you're watching.

Always watching.
 

Malakandra

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I do tend to just check the thread a lot because I like knowing the context of what's going down. It sometimes makes it awkward when I see something I should respond to but know I don't actually have time at that moment to address it with the post it deserves.
 

fontisian

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I do tend to just check the thread a lot because I like knowing the context of what's going down. It sometimes makes it awkward when I see something I should respond to but know I don't actually have time at that moment to address it with the post it deserves.
I'd say the feeling goes away with time, but it really doesn't. I just lean into showing up creepily.
 

#HBC | Kary

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guys i've read the thread. I repeated it because its the example I used for fonti throwing shade on things- to the point that even facts are up for debate.

don't have any more questions about the case, would like to hear boom's progression on reading me though.
 
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