Things I Like - The Mafia Game - Game Over

[#HBC | Kary]

Nope, but if wams role is true, than we have three people who can visit, one who tracks, and the body guard who can survive long enough to tell us who they were visiting. It just seems designed to kinda be a mess for the poor tracker

So you didn't ever consider just NOT using your role?

 

[Pythag]

I mean, you'd have to explain why the mod quoted Wam saying Prestidigitation in the thread then. I think her's pretty clearly works as it was explained.

Gotcha I must have missed the mod quote. I’ll reread that when I’m not on mobile

 

[Pythag]

So you didn't ever consider just NOT using your role?

no, I hadn’t considered it until you just said this

 

[giraffelasergun]

Vote Count 3.4

HeuryAlone (1): FrozenFlame
Fontisian (1): Boomfrog,
Pythag (1): Laser

Not Voting (5): fontisian, #HBC | Kary, HeuryAlone, Pythag, Malakandra,

With 8 voters, it takes 5 votes to eliminate. Day 3 Deadline is 5 PM CST on Thursday the 24th.

 

[Pythag]

no, I hadn’t considered it until you just said this

...now I feel kinda dumb

 

[Malakandra]

Well lucky for us the apparent only information gathering role died night 1 so we can use our abilities as we please! woo, good trade offs.

 

[Pythag]

Well lucky for us the apparent only information gathering role died night 1 so we can use our abilities as we please! woo, good trade offs.

I must find a container for all of this good fortune.
I don’t think an investigative role has survived past D1/N1 in like a year

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

ok I've been chewing on booms case against fonti for a bit. here's where Im at

first, I don't really vibe with the assertion that fonti was "clearly sabotaging" town reads on Chaco. I would be a huge hypocrite if I said that chaco was obvtown, I absolutely oscillated on that slot many, many times. Reading the link interactions that boom provided, I don't get a sabotaging vibe at all, and it feels like fonti was actually asking very fair questions about how to interpret Chaco's deviations from his previous townplay. I was also attempting to sort him in this manner at the time so I def feel like at minimum characterizing fonti as sabotaging town reads re: Chaco is a reach

I really like the assessment of how the NKs have played out and how it fits a scenario where scum!fonti has painting herself into a corner but giving out too many townreads, thus, she has to kill them off to avoid the awkward position of eventually having to 180 on one of them when the chips are down. Sabrar NK fits that really well, Chaco I'm not so convinced though as iirc Fonti never took a hard town!Chaco stance?

Re: the conflict with Synch, this is definitely an interaction I need to do a deeper dive of to see if boom's assessment really gets to the core of it. Ultimately I agree that fonti claiming to have truly defended Synch is a bit dubious, but I don't see it as impossible for town!fonti to legitimately believe that she tried really hard to give synch a chance to help fonti sort them and come around on the slot, and in a sense frame that as a defense of the slot by giving them a chance, but at the same time it could just be scum trying to put some polish and spin on a contentious interaction. I'd be more concerned about fontis posture re: Synch, especially given her criticism of the notes in particular, if Chaco didn't also have very similar concerns:

It’s fake notes I think. Lists Fonti at post number #35 as shotgun scum team when t should say Gorf. So way they were edited. Laser and Synch are scum.

vote: synchronicity

Definitely fake notes. Lists Gorf maybe two lines down.

however I will note this little interaction definitely rubs me the wrong way:

fontisian why are you putting so much effort into doubt casing our notes if I'm one of your 5 pillars of townies to win the game.

You're not in the pillar now.

Why was I before? Specifics please.

It is so late for this.

Vibes. Felt like you were on the same page at the same time as me with Somi, Mala, Laser, Frozen. Really liked the way you admitted you were wrong on the Kary case. Liked you pushing Boom to vote Somi with everyone swapping over.

I can look into it more tomorrow. I'm not sure if I want to be defending you.

this felt like a crucial moment to me in their back and forth and fonti's response here is quite underwhelming to say the least

as I was clicking thru all of booms links, these posts also stood out to me:

re: DH's slot

Feels like everyone except me and Frozen has called the slot really town, and most scum don't feel comfortable doing that to a partner, therefore he's probably town, even if his play sucks.

I think Kary's one of the only people really recklessly pursuing scumreads without caring about how they look. Would not yeet.

I do not like the townread here of DH with her basically doing what boom has said, throwing her hands up and being like "well everyone else townreads the slot so must be so!" type sidestep of having to actually read the slot. I don't think scum risked much my giving surface level town reads to DH if DH is their mate at that juncture in the game because it was so early and also DH just frankly was more of a background character getting little to no scrutiny. When people are just townreading such a slot on a surface level I don't think scum would feel that just following the heard on that anchors them in a disadvantageous way because there was no real substance to any of the DH town reads iirc

The kary post is interesting to me because its one of the few times I've seen any slot, other than myself, saying a slot is "not a play" instead of just saying "I townread the slot for this." I get it was made in the context of slots considering a flashyeet of kary but, idk, this just felt like an uncharacteristic for fonti to express her position there

I definitely need to deep dive EoD2 synch v. fonti to determine how meritorious boom's interpretation of the interaction is because at this point I 100% agree I'd be stupid not to give a fonti pocket attempt at my slot real consideration, but on balance fonti's slot have given me a lot of townpings and that's hard to ignore

 

[fontisian]

Migraine. Can sort of read. Ping for questions if vital.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

from a global strategy perspective though, I think we all really ought to consider the practical advantages of a DH/heury yeet at this point though

If we're in 6v3 right now, a misyeet lands us in 4v3 tomorrow. Guaranteed LYLO

In such a scenario, scum can alpha strike with one errant vote. Not trying to throw shade at all, but lets not forget what happened in completely vanilla. Ran replaced in last minute and cast the game deciding vote. I'm not saying that Ran didn't properly get caught up or that he didn't understand what was going on in the game, but tbqh the idea of a replacement casting a potentially game ending vote in LYLO makes me sick

my point here, is we have the cushion to misyeet and guarantee ourself a LYLO with slots that have all been actively engaged in this game. Leaving the heury slot alive for LYLO, assuming DH/heury is town, is leaving a wildcard on the table for scum to easily manipulate into casting the single misvote they need to alphastrike

frankly, I think there's a decent chance of hitting scum on the slot. DH has been a background player all game and I've never felt good about the slot. I don't think I can actually point to a single instance in this game where I felt DH was actually scumhunting, and all we got from Heury was a check in post BEFORE EOD2 and we still have not heard a single peep from the slot this game. This is absolutely not reassuring, and the way this game is going I'm convinced that we are dealing with atleast one coaster scum slot this game

If DH/heury flips scum I'll be ecstatic, but even with a town flip we will have a "healthy" LYLO if you're following what I'm saying here. Leaving DH/heury alive for LYLO is begging for disaster. Heury had the entirety of N2 to catch up and very clearly did not. D3 has been going on for days and still nothing. This lack of motivation is extremely concerning if the slot is town and proves my point that the slot will 100% be a liability in LYLO. Or it could just be explained by being scum and not caring to do anything to move the game along or help the town get out of the quagmire we're currently in. town!heury is not going to solve this game in LYLO, the slot in all likelihood will either come in and just sheep a townread, or will cast a potentially game ending irresponsible vote. And there's no way scum NK a town!DH slot so unless we deal with the slot now, it will be poison for us down the line

I know GLG gave us a 24 hour extension to try to get heury in here but it's already almost the original deadline and we still have nothing from the slot, so the 24 hour extension really doesn't do anything for us. That's not GLGs fault or anything, but at this point we're running out of time fast

 

[fontisian]

This is smart.

Early DH is like early Frozen in Midnight. Sounds fancy, but not doing anything.

Vote: DHeury

 

[BoomFrog]

interesting addendum to FF's #2198:
"Liked you pushing Boom to vote Somi with everyone swapping over."
Sync pushed me to vote Somi after the pillars post, so that can't be a justification for the pillars post.

 

[BoomFrog]

EBWOP: #2,168

 

[Wam]

Right thoughts on Boom's case on Fonti. BoomFrog

I am going to start by saying I started the day suspecting fonti so I'm not the hard sell on this.

Point 1 that is a cool photo
Point 2 I'm not 100% sold on fonti sabotaging town reads, but the general town of trying to avoid strong reads ties in with what I thought day 2.
Point 3 I agree the behaviour with Sync was weird.

My main question is Boom this works if Font has control of the kill do you think the others are just going along?

As well I believe in Day 2 you described font as trying to solve (I cant find the post). When I stated I felt they were coasting without any results. What changed your mind day 2 for the font vote at the end? I may have missed it.

The DH/Huery issue is interesting I see flame's point and it does allow us to confirm my powers as well. My only question is would a DH flip of scum give us any information for the solve.

 

[fontisian]

Feel like the main reason was Syn voting somi with me and then questioning the inaccuracies thing at the same time. Mindmeld stuff.

Yeeting scum more important than info Today re:Wam.

 

[BoomFrog]

Migraine. Can sort of read. Ping for questions if vital.

I hope it's not a mafia induced migraine... : / I didn't intend to actually drive anyone crazy

As well I believe in Day 2 you described font as trying to solve (I cant find the post). When I stated I felt they were coasting without any results. What changed your mind day 2 for the font vote at the end? I may have missed it.

The EoD2 fonti vote was almost purely based on how bad Fonti's reaction to Sync's case was. Also how super townie Sync was, and that Sync asked us not to yeet you.

LaserGuy and Malakandra Feel free to realse your opinions. I've juiced this for as much as I can get out of it.

 

[BoomFrog]

At this point I assume Heury will be replaced. And wam is right, if Heury flipped scum I wouldn't know where to go except back to Fontisian anyway. Better to just consider this basically LYLO. If we hit scum the replacement will have time to catch up. If you want to yeet the slot, make a case that DH was scummy.

 

[LaserGuy]

I won't be able to comment till this evening.

Vote fonti

 

[fontisian]

No. Feeling better about game than any prior point weirdly enough. Feels like a day we hit.

 

[fontisian]

Ah. Maybe not. Want Boom's conclusion. Can't really defend, will just post notes.

 

[BoomFrog]

My main question is Boom this works if Font has control of the kill do you think the others are just going along?

Fonti is certainly the powerplayer on any scum team she is on at this point. ( unless the team is Fonti BoomFrog. ) But sure, there could be other factors like suspected PR, or Chaco was zeroing in on someone else. I don't think Chaco's death should be taken as evidence of scum!Fonti, just it does fit. I was really sure that scum!Fonti would NE me or laserguy, so that section justifing the NE is more for my benefit I guess.

Chaco I'm not so convinced though as iirc Fonti never took a hard town!Chaco stance?

Links in the case. How did you miss these?

Chaco:
312 "This Chaco post is townie" https://smashboards.com/threads/thi...-23rd-at-5-pm-cst.507224/page-8#post-24082328
430 Fonti deflates Kary's scum read on Chaco https://smashboards.com/threads/thi...23rd-at-5-pm-cst.507224/page-11#post-24083135
458 Fonti defends Chaco from Kary [consistant with currently town reading Kary and Chaco as indicated earlier] https://smashboards.com/threads/thi...23rd-at-5-pm-cst.507224/page-12#post-24083281
465 Encourages town colaboration between Chaco and FF https://smashboards.com/threads/thi...23rd-at-5-pm-cst.507224/page-12#post-24083292
469 Explains town read of Chaco to DH https://smashboards.com/threads/thi...23rd-at-5-pm-cst.507224/page-12#post-24083315
551 Defends Chaco against LG but tries to engage LG as potentially town https://smashboards.com/threads/thi...23rd-at-5-pm-cst.507224/page-14#post-24084562
617 Tries to bring Kary over to a town read of Chaco https://smashboards.com/threads/thi...23rd-at-5-pm-cst.507224/page-16#post-24084864
1514 Quotes Sabrar to reenforce Chaco is town read https://smashboards.com/threads/thi...23rd-at-5-pm-cst.507224/page-38#post-24091960

 

[Malakandra]

Against Yeeting:
Boomfrog
Laserguy
Pythag
Kary

Meh:
Frozen Flame
Heury

Down to yeet:
Wam
Fonti

My main thing with Wam, is that I really hate the idea of having him around in LYLO, because I think he's either scum, or going to be a very easy yeet to make for a deepwolf once its gets down to it. He also is like pretty suspicious to everyone, yet has been slipping away each day. Only reason I'm not going for him is because I can test out if he's a neighbor or not. And also maybe because I probably won't be around in LYLO to have to deal with it because I doubt scum lets me live in LYLO because that leaves an extra town vote up for half the day.

As for Fonti, yah I'm down with Booms case. I haven't been a fan of some of her pushes and stuff in regards to me, and I expected Fonti to be a lot more obviously town to me then she has been. If Boom has been tricking me this game props to him. I could definitely see a Wam Fonti team as well.

As for Heury, I'm not down to yeet an inactive slot at this point in the game, especially one that I've been townreading. It'll have to work itself out.

Vote Fonti

 

[fontisian]

BoomFrog Do thing, now.

 

[LaserGuy]

Okay, a few things really quick.

Fonti's power is way too dangerous for us to allow to come to LYLO. Short of a full clear on her, we cannot risk it as we could end up with someone losing their vote for saying "Town" or something and that's game over if mafia can throw all their votes on someone faster than Town can. Fortunately, she is also a good chance of hitting scum, so I don't think yeeting her is even going to be a losing proposition. fonti must be the play today.

If fonti flips scum FrozenFlame is 100% her buddy. Frozen was kind of my bellwether for how likely I felt Boom's case was going to hit mafia. I think there's some flaws in Boom's case (particularly the lack of buddy analysis as I alluded to at the start, as we really need to be considering a full solve at this point, not an all-in on a single player). A player like Frozen who is very sensitive to interactions and team compositions should have picked up on this, and I'm very suspicious that he didn't. Moreover, Frozen is also very well aware of the strategic implications of how a power like fonti's could interfere with Town's chances in LYLO and I don't believe he would ever seriously consider bringing her along if he were Town. I actually think Frozen is probably mafia regardless of fonti's flip.

I feel like both fonti and Frozen are going to be hits. I am not positive who the last member of mafia is as they're presumably committed to a bus, or it's DH, but I don't think we need to speculate too much on this just yet. We should be able to narrow this down with some flips.

Flip fonti today, Frozen tomorrow and go from there.

 

[Malakandra]

I did notice Laser that Frozen Push for Heury and Fonti's jump looks pretty suspicious as trying to build a counter wagon based on not a read but on activity level. So I think you may be right with that, I really think the third is Wam at this point.

 

[Malakandra]

BoomFrog Do thing, now.

is Boom gonna hit us with a "well actually Wam added both me and Fonti to a neighbor hood already, I then proceeded to write a fake case, placing those I was suspicious of at the end to lull them into a false sense of security so they would be off guard." That would be really funny.

I am wondering what you actually mean by this though.

 

[fontisian]

Boom posts:

Spoiler

I'm baffled and concerned. I was just coming back to post about it after digesting the thread for a bit.

@Synchronicity What happened to your town!wam read? If wam flips town we get basically no info, as scum had no reason to do anything but try to act like town.

I mean, town sync just copies and pastes the chunk of log that has the oddity in it. Scum sync would have made the log with the sole purpose of sharing it and so wouldn't have such an odd discrepancy.

Right. Easy to miss when scanning EXISTING notes. Not easy to miss when writing notes. That means the notes really existed before toDay. Either sync made fake notes from day 1 with the intention of posting them for town cred or they are real.

I thought you said scum Xivii is lazier the town Xivii? Although, to be fair scum Bessie is very capable of taking notes from a town PoV, so I could see the thrill of scum hydra getting Xivii motivated when they syncronized.

His tone was excellent all game imo. That post was just the peak of his craft. I agree there's some risk of delaying if both are town, but he also knows the spotlight is on him and he'll have to "choose wrong" so he has to make it look good. There's risk of not putting on enough theatre and Mala is cool and cautious. If the flash yeets bring discussed like laser and Kary are also town, I think Mala is unconcerned.

I mean, I don't think he should be town reading me anyway. Helping at EoD might feel nice but any real consideration of it would not lead to concluding it was townie to take control away from him.

I was literally not present for the middle half if the day, as I already pointed out. How is that not a factor in your advice statement?

Let's see where we're at:

Town
Pythag
Kary
Chaco
Dark Horse

Probably town but I'm going to make myself crazy about it all game
Synchronicity
Fontisian

Suspicious
Wam
LaserGuy

Scummy
Frozen Flame
Malakandra

I need to look back at D1 to see if I think FF-Mala is possible, but from memory I think Mala's push on FF was strong enough that they aren't buddies.

FrozenFlame and Fonti have been so blatantly coordinated. It's getting close to Too Buddy to Be Buddies but I think scum!Fonti might be the type to go for that and Frozen would defer to Fonti's plans. I'd rather yeet Frozen before Fonti no matter what though, because I kinda agree with Frozen's point that scum!Fonti wouldn't defend town!Frozen so hard, and I doubt town!Frozen would be bamboozled so quickly and so completely.


Mala-wam-Fonti - Team I'm thinking about most toDay and seems plausible. Mala's early push on wam to distance after the EoD1 optics. A start of day push is very unlikely to lead to a yeet and Fonti would know that.

Mala-wam-Laser - I was seriously considering this before now, but in processing to make this post I realize Laser joined the wam wagon quite late and sat on it too calmly for this to be right. Maybe Laser was confident that Mala would be the deciding vote. Still unlikely.
Mala-Laser-Fonti - I don't think scum!Mala would start the day with a hard push on town!wam. That would just look really bad later.

Fonti-FF-Laser - Plausible
Fonti-FF-wam - Plausible
Sync-Wam-Laser - Plausible. Sync's flip flop on wam isn't going to go anywhere early D2, and they have plenty of time to decide back to trusting wam.

Apparently I should be voting Fonti now that I've disproven my wam-laser team. I'm reluctant to since Fonti objectively seems very townie, and town!Fonti is such an asset. And premptively, fontisian , no I am not waiting for Syncro's approval before I move my vote. I just need more time to think about this.

LaserGuy You've got the 1.9 correction VC as your 1.10. The actual 1.10 is after Sabrar votes wam.

Pythag immediately follows and it's 3 on wam. Then Sync and Fonti go for Somi, FF sheeps on and DH jumps on.

Sync seemed genuinely surprised to see Fonti go on, so they are less likely to be mates. Most likely mates are one of Fonti/Sync and DarkHorse (or FF if Fonti is scum).

Malakandra If your world is based on wam = scum, why have you not expressed suspicion of Dark Horse?

Apparently Fonti is there one I'm going to drive crazy this game, not Chaco.

Vote LaserGuy

I'll ride this all the way to yeet town with you Fonti. No take backsies or last minute swerves.

Also, agreed that Syncro and I keep lining up and I almost lamp shaded it, but I didn't because I figured that would just muddy things. The thing is, both sides of syncro and I have a long history. I'm pretty sure we'd be behaving similarly in all four alignment combos.

They are potentially a big blind spot for me. And admittedly the NotesGate stuff has soured. But I really just don't think they are scum, they just butt heads with people a lot.

Wait, I read this the opposite way on first reading. Why and how am I trying to keep you from defending Syn? Or... hmm.. don't answer this and just defend Syn already.

I've defended Sync way more then Fonti. Also, Fonti has hard defended many people you consider town. If you are evaluating around "Sync is scum" then you should be seeing me as a partner. I should definitely be lower on your list then Fonti is. How has Fonti not shown you anything townie? She has been putting an ass load of work into trying to solve the game. This Fonti read makes zero sense.

Also, side question, what does :links around boom" mean? is that scummy?

If Boom scum, mistake was in saying he was defending Syn while not actually doing. Only defense was arguing about the notes thing with Chaco a few times, then voting me at eod. Voting Laser maybe also technically Syn defense, because it's a push elsewhere. Boom probably not scum, think he believes in what he's doing, is pulling out reads with purpose, judge that purpose when he reveals it.

Day 1 Part 2 Notes:

Spoiler

Am I the only one who finds these weird.

I missed booms view on gorf. Blame late reading comprehension.

Gorf sorry you had to replace. I'm trying to play on my phone mainly as well so I feel your pain! I do have a laptop for complicated bits though!

@font, when your up to speed do your reads match gorfs?

Lasers analysis on chaco is a good oeice of work. So in going to sheep and put chaco as 2nd scummiest after gorf.


I have been kn the end of a few sabrar tunnels. I havent seen a full tunnel yet this game though.

Why was Syn’s readlist weird? Was it the vote on Wam? It feels like the vote on Wam. Also, like, the question to me is just about whether I’m going to keep voting him. Is putting Chaco as the second scummiest actually sheeping? Doesn’t really matter.

You aren't producing reads. You aren't engaging with people. You aren't analyzing content. You're active lurking. That's the issue. I analyzed every post that you had made at the time I posted my case. It's in the spoiler, you can read it yourself. The overwhelming majority of your posts so far have been fluff.

“I’ve analyzed every byte of data that has ever existed about you.”

And what’s even worse is Wam has mirrored every read so far this game, and you’re attacking me for fluff.

Here’s one thing you can always bank on Laser, when I’m town, I’m transparently town. 24 hours isn’t gonna give you that idea. So sit back and comb through your cronies who say good job, splendid good case, etc. Cause there’s scum in that 100%, if not you yourself.

The two allowances of I didn’t know you were gonna do that, or if you were doing that it would be okay... makes your case worthless. And if you can seriously read that in depth to something that isn’t there, I expect you to be able to find something out of the sheep you just stirred.

I don’t think “mirroring” reads is actually scummy, like, town sheep reads, but it’s not towny, because originality can be read and just repeating other things can’t.

Chaco so town~

top 10 ways to recognize a forum transplant.

there is no easy way to do it.
What I typically do is view their profile and look at their most recent posts.

you can also search this thread for posts by a specific name.

I feel like Pythag just shows up with helpful information all the time but when the helpful info I need is scumreads he is nowhere.

Having never played with chaco dont have a meta guide but the posts today make chaco look like caught guilty scum.

Test
:@Chaco

Pythag

This is actually kinda ****ing towny, like, there’s absolutely no reasoning, and it’s so wrong, but surely scum would have some reasoning. lol

wam is blatantly sheeping a horrible case. Alas, our truce cannot last.

FoS wam

#Team Chaco

I see you Sabrar.

Vote you for not* using dark mode

He arrive and teach us that discord has dark mode. But the reads, where are they?

-----

I'm definitely not. I'm already kinda sus of the prople who played with me and midnight and are town leaning me for my entrance when I was able to do similar stuff last game.

No, I just haven't seen anything that's made me want to unvote, and nothing that's made me really want to vote someone else.

First part towny.

So it’s everyone else’s fault that they interpreted you wrong?

also all the people that said gorf was defensive, this is almost the exact same defense, so I really to see some consistency.

“Hey, everyone who was wrong about Gorf, this is the same, so you better be wrong about Chaco too.” Nah, too weird and exposed of an angle for scum to be pushing. He believes it.

The irony is I'm also sussed out about somi but for the opposite reason. What do you think of their posts since then?

Laser's chaco case contains a very common sumhunting mistake where people use a meta read that essentially boils down to "I saw this guys town play in a game and he's playing different here so he must be scum" when in actuality it's not that uncommon for people to play different games as town which is why meta reads shouldn't be used unless you've seen the guy play as both alignments. Laser's post has enough original intent that I think it's more misguided than scummy but I don't like FF and especially wam hopping onto/pushing chaco afterwards it feels opportunistic. If I'm wrong about gorf/fonti's slot then wam looks really bad



Very curious as to what you mean by this

Feels valuable, tagging for later. Reads at high level, doesn’t explain why he’s actually townreading Chaco.

Subtle shade noted

What do you think of Laser's case on chaco?

Yo Pythag



Did this ever end up making a difference?

Pokes Kary and Pythag, questions are fineish. Focus on followup with Pythag indicative of appearance oriented scum player?

It’s moved me from townie gorf into more null territory. I’ve got more a quizzical eye in his direction.

It’s just making me re-evaluate.

I need the actual quote to assess this:

This quote was sticking in my craw for the past hour or so.

I see Besvii is beating me to the punch, but..

if Gorf is calling DH dumb or scum, He's also saying he's contributing without contributing, which would be scummy, not dummy.
But then gorf also backs off saying that he doesn't understand DH's intent, when he just gave examples of what the intent could be.

Now that's something I could understand putting a vote for.

Don’t get why Pythag thought gorf was towny in the first place as opposed to just not scummy, still. Think the gorf describing possible intents for DH and then not explaining them is actually a towny thing, but it’s not weird for Pythag to not get that.

Town:

Dark Horse - Town. Good questioning, seems to be analyzing well, checking all of the angles.

Frozen - Town lean. Seems much more relaxed this game. Reaction to Sabrar's tunnel feels very natural.

Gorfonti - Scum lean. Abrasive and on edge. The reads in #156 seem crazy to me and I wish there was some explanation attached to them so I could understand where they were coming from.

BoomFrog - Town Lean. Seems to be mostly flitting around on the sidelines, but his reads in #116 seem legitimate.

Kary - Nullscum. Cautious, non-commital.

Malakandra - Town Lean. Seems lost and struggling to meaningfully contribute. Was much more focused as mafia.

pythag - Nullscum. Don't really have any strong feelings on this slot. Case on Frozen in #131 is extremely dubious though.

Chaco - Scum lean. See #172

Sabrar - Town. Reasonably confident that this is Town Sabrar.

somitomi - NullTown. Tonally very different from recent scum game.

Synchronicity - NullTown. Seems to be dancing to their own music.

wam - Nullscum. Minimal contributions so far. wam often reads as scummy D1 so I'm not ready to commit to a stronger read on him without more information.


Town
LaserGuy
Dark Horse
Sabrar

BoomFrog
Frozen
Malakandra

Synchronicity
somitomi
---Null line--
Kary
pythag
wam

Gorf
Chaco
Scum

Is Laser the kind of person who’s willing to put a partner up top? Kind of ballsy for him to do so. Also, kind of weird for him to be willing to do that but also following up on pushing DH Today, even if it was in response to me going for it. Actual read quality pretty ****, buzzwordy. I hate alphabetical reads, ugh.

Bottom scum reads obv terrible, secondary scumreads actually not bad? List is probably close to rand accuracy wise. Townreading somi as different, voted wam over them at eod, need to see if they pushed the defense more than this. May have not pushed it since they were phoneposting anyway, it being there is more a point in Laser’s favor than it not being there is a point against him.

Kind of weird to see Kary being referred to as non-committal, maybe they were that early on, hence Dark Horse asking about their stance on Chaco. Possible it was communication issues, with the way they talked about me Today.

Calls gorf’s reads crazy, are they actually all that different?
Gorf, Chaco, Frozen, Boom, Somi, LaserGuy, Pythag, Mala, Kary, Syn , Sabrar, Dark Horse, Wam
LaserGuy, Dark Horse, Sabrar, Boom, Mala, Frozen, Syn, somi, Kary, Pythag, Wam, Chaco

Only similar spots are for Boom, Syn, Kary, Wam. Laser’s reaction with his reads is fair.

No reason for Sab read, rip. “Dancing to their own music” is a general descriptor for Syn. Was there a point where Laser became convinced Syn was town d2? Remember Boom feeling like he believed it at eod 2, not sure if that’s memory from current events interfering. Frozen and Mala reads probably p good.

Why did Kary like this? Does it match their reads? Was voting Boom “not very seriously.”

"I'm okay with that slot but I want to keep an eye on them" is a classic phrase as old as time used by scum who know they don't have anything concrete to attack the slot right now but want to keep their options open.

Sabrar disliked #25:

In my experience neither of them are particularly easy to read individually and I can't imagine it's going to be better as a hydra. I'm not worried about it yet but I want to keep an eye on it.

For leaving options open on pushing Syn.

TOWN
Mala
Laser
Frozen
-----
Dark Horse
Pythag
Somi
BoomFrog
------
Sabrar
Synchro
-----
Chaco
Gorf (fonti)
Wam
SCUM

Ok, yeah, very similar readlist to Laser, but Pythag higher than expected, Sabrar lower. Maybe not as familiar with Sabrar as Laser? Potential w/w with Pythag, not likely w/w with Laser or lists wouldn’t be so similar/Kary wouldn’t be liking Laser’s.

I haven't seen any evidence that this is what you were trying to do. Where are these longer, more thoughtful posts? Point me to them.

In context, this makes even less sense because the quoted message is in a discussion about a game I am thinking about running sometime in the future where everyone would be restricted in the number of posts that they would be able to make. It's not about this game, and there is nothing in the phrasing of the Discord quote to indicate that you are intending to do anything differently at all. You would never read "I've always wanted to go to the United States, but I'm worried about COVID" to mean "I'm going to the United States at the next available opportunity".



This is your third game on the site. Why do you feel the need to spell this out?

fontisian : What are your thoughts on Chaco this game?

Wam : Would you be able to make an ordered list? You don't need to give reasons at this point if you don't have time to do it in full.

Why is Laser questioning irl reasons. Does this even matter? Maybe unlikely scum!laser does that, doesn’t want to insult people, town!laser more likely to toe the line because he’s sure Chaco is lying.

Somi thing not really worth questioning, since they were scum last time, so if it was a first time scum on the site nerves thing he would have posted about needing time to decide there, not here. Attempt to coax Wam through providing content, would maybe have been in scumchat instead if they were w/w.

i think i'm caught up on everything. this game has been pretty confusing given its just 7 pages, i know I asked for more, but please.

@Sabrar why is Chaco town to you?

Fits with having Chaco as strong scumread. First impression is this is an attempt to help their reads, given personality probably not that, probably lead up to pushing Sabrar as well for defending Chaco without calling him town.

The post seemed very thoughtful The purpose would be at the very least to show where Besvii’s head is at, where they are coming from and how they will be interpreting things.
It seems There also is purpose in not just give a super blanket reads list. Having to read slower and engage with the post differently looks like it’s trying to inspire thought, and I see that as pro town

Where that gambit falls on its face is when I don’t know all the references, but I think even in my lack of knowledge I felt like I had some decent idea of what they thought of, each player they mentioned.


Scum!xivii goes for legitimate town defenses even if improbable
Scum!Bessie last time wouldn’t even argue the points levied against her, but answered questions no one was asking.

can they do something new?
of course, but without flips I don’t have any reference.

I don’t see either of those muddying tactics coming up yet, so I view that slot as more town

I got absolutely nothing from Syn’s early posts, doesn’t seem like Pythag actually got anything from them either, and just assumes there was a reason, maybe tmi. Townread is because they didn’t make it easy to townread? Valid.

Where do you see the backpedaling? The post above yours appears to be LG doubling down not walking his accusation back.


What specifically did you like/agree with on Lasers original case, what makes you think Chaco looks caught, and what have you thought of the developments with Laser and Chaco arguing so far?

Interested about all three of these, but especially why I am so high.

Building off of Laser’s scumreads because he’s sees Laser as someone to follow? Kind of weird while saying he dislikes people townreading him too early (Laser), but maybe not conscious.

Overall I'm most sus of the people putting me high already, and some of the more blatant case sheeping. I don't think I'm playing like my town game that much, and besides that I doubt these people know me enough to throw me at tops of lists and the like this early when most of my content has just been asking questions. FF is also kinda up there because I don't like their pre flip association thing and the reasoning behind it, just seemed off to me to try to make that connection this early. Didn't really like this post. Felt like taking an excuse to drop a vote without having to go through and agree with the case super hard. FF has def been playing different than what I saw in Midnight, but it makes sense why since that didn't work out great for them. So I guess Bird + Fish = Dog or whatever.

Vote: Frozen Flame

Instinct is unlikely to be scum case because it acknowledges the differences from previous scum!play, then assumes conspiracy and keeps pushing anyway. Boom might call it “towny paranoia.” Instinct might be wrong, feel like I townread Mala for something like this in Midnight Ops, but the difference was he was fully able to write out reasons for and against and just cherry picked the ones he wanted, would need to check before using this read. Counter point, no reason for scum!mala to really want to attack frozen here, Chaco and I were under pressure, no need to deflect anywhere or make a stretchy case. Not w/w mala to frozen.

Maybe I'm being too paranoid about all the people trusting me, I just feel like I'm being setup for going to endgame and then people go "ahh Mala's tricking us again gosh darn it lets git rid of him that slimy scum boi." and I'd rather avoid that.

Ate 2, electric boogaloo. Feels real, don’t trust the feels, etc. Fits with Mala experience in Sumting.

We ride.

Vote: Frozen Flame

I know I have too positive a view of someone’s potential scumgame, when I’ve never seen it before and I'm still like “could this blank vote be a bus?”

Did this mean that you did feel I was a bit scummy? What's your read of me so far?

Throughline of Boom trying to use person’s read of him to get read of him. Previously used with Chaco.

I don't like Frozen's linking of Kary and DH, it doesn't even make sense. It's not a plausible scenario that they would really be coordinating like that so tightly early D1. And I don't like the backpedal on Somi. It seems like he's going out of his way to make sure he can have a scum read on anyone he needs to. I'm kinda shocked fontisian doesn't feel FF is slimy again.

I like Chaco's interaction with me, it felt townie. It feels like he really thinks he can town read me, which makes sense when he correctly town read me last game. And when called out on it and rationally considering it he realizes it's a bit fool hardy since he's never seen me play scum. But his instinct still tells him he can read me and he trusts his instincts.

Boo. Things that don’t make sense come from town way more often than they come from good scum, and Frozen is at least /consistent/ scum. Boom should know better. Not sure what “scumread on everyone he needs to” even means that early D1. Ping to me to defend Frozen fits paranoia world of Boom wanting to look unaligned while ensure a town is locked in defending his scummate. Probably stupid world, may be giving him too much credit, moving on.

Chaco townread fits pattern. Paranoia brain says he’s trying to reinforce Chaco’s instincts to trust him. Could still be doing that as town, actually? Man, I’m actually really doubting him even though the case felt like it saw me, probably just keep this hidden until everyone talks, see where he goes with it, what else he gets from reactions, whether he sticks with the read.

Disagree with you both. Chaco's frustration at being called out on a different play style is sincere. He really feels betrayed by LaserGuy attacking him for what he thought LG should best understand out of anyone. I'm not 100% Chaco is town, but I'm 100% that he really feels LG's case is unfair.

LG this is fairly null or slightly town. Scum-LG does love to make real cases against townies and gets himself worked up into the right mindset. But I think he'd wait until later in the day to make his attack more strategicly timed.

Does this apply to Boom? Check to see if Laser read is consistent with vote on Laser during D2.

Mindmeld

Ew.

Actually, it’s about Somi not liking Laser, Chaco, Wam, Frozen. Maybe not ew?

Mala/Kary not w/w, meme would just be in wolfchat, not thread.

I'm not sure if you're familiar with the concept of "caught for the wrong reasons." It's the idea that scum tend get mad when they accused but feel the case itself isn't correct (Frozen in Midnight Ops is a good example) compared to the town reaction of just genuinely not getting why they're being pushed. Could you maybe assess what reaction Chaco is having here?

Why did Kary like this? Just Chaco scumread? Maybe makes reads, then likes things that agree with him, dislike things disagree, no discrimination.

SO answers below to the questions i have been asked, I'm still getting used to a new forum so if I have missed any let me know.



I answered this earlier but for completeness on the questions. I had somehow missed Booms read of Gorf in there.

On chaco being defensive in response to

https://smashboards.com/threads/thi...day-the-11th-at-5-pm-cst.507224/post-24081741 from @Chaco
and https://smashboards.com/threads/thi...day-the-11th-at-5-pm-cst.507224/post-24081763 from Pythag

This post https://smashboards.com/threads/thi...day-the-11th-at-5-pm-cst.507224/post-24081718 and this post https://smashboards.com/threads/thi...day-the-11th-at-5-pm-cst.507224/post-24081722, both pinged me a defensive. The quote below stood out to me as a very weird thing for town Chaco to say.



In response to @somitomi https://smashboards.com/threads/thi...day-the-11th-at-5-pm-cst.507224/post-24081788

Gorf/font it is the defensiveness when challenged along with the vote on me that came across as an OMGUS, I'm waiting for the answer from Font to the question I have repeated.

#HBC | Kary https://smashboards.com/threads/thi...day-the-11th-at-5-pm-cst.507224/post-24082025

Boom is neutral to me see below.

LaserGuy Ordered list below

BoomFrog https://smashboards.com/threads/thi...day-the-11th-at-5-pm-cst.507224/post-24082252

I don't know..... Phone post so sticky fingers?


Thoughts on a re read pages 4-7.


Boom seems to have backed laser then dropped it later.



Whats your reason then?

Repeating this with a tag fontisian

@font, when your up to speed do your reads match gorfs?



Then why is it still there given how scummy you find my play?

@Sabrar when the setup discussion was in a game as a miller surely that is to be expected?

Things I Like - The Mafia Game - Game Over

@Synchronicity your #139 is all Xivii, correct? How caught up are you?

smashboards.com

Pythag https://smashboards.com/threads/thi...day-the-11th-at-5-pm-cst.507224/post-24081834

I have called both!

Ordered List

Town - really struggled to order this section so don't read to much into the order
Somitomi - Enquries seem to be coming from a town mindset, questioning interrogating etc. Somi's play seems to have come on a lot from what I remember.
Malakandra - stayed very calm under early pressure.
LaserGuy - as explained I like the thinking.
Sabrar - Feels like town Sabrar but it's hard to call him town if he gets through Day 1 without voting for me.
Dark Horse - I like the mindset behind the questions just a bit suspicious that they don't have many of their opinions out there.
Pythag - pretty much identical read to Dark horse

Neutral
Boomfrog - I can never read Boom, especially day 1.
Synchronicity (Xivii and Bessie Hydra) - Not enough content to call.
Frozen Flame - not seen enough to make a judgement


Scum
Kary - I don't like putting me and Gorf at the bottom of the reads list without as far as I can see mentioning us before https://smashboards.com/threads/thi...day-the-11th-at-5-pm-cst.507224/post-24082071
Chaco - Explained above
Fontisian (Replacement for Gorf) - Explained responses to pressure Day 1 seemed to be defensive. I also haven't seen anything fron Font to change my mind yet.

Off topic, until I started looking on my computer I didn't realise how good Sync's avatar was!

****ing nightmare post. Literally hurting brain, coming back to it later.

Would town!boom be less likely to not like my posts anymore after I said it freaked me out, or do I need to go to bed, a tale of one font.

Am i the only one that thinks this doesn't look original?
It just kinda feels like a collective of views from the thread with a few personal touches sprinkled in. For example mine has been said by alot of people who have played with me before, but Wam hasn't, so idk why he takes that small thing as such a big town sign.

He also lumps Pythag in with Dark Horse, and I know I made a similar argument about Rajam when I was scum that lumping people as alike that don't seem super alike to me is just a way to cop out of a read, but I genuinely agree with that view. I don't see Dark Horse in Pythag as similar at all.

Why are Pythag and Dark Horse similar to you Wam?

Dislike "am I the only one" wording. Good question, outside box application of previous info, find answer. Not w/w with Wam.

Also Wam , can you talk more about why you don't like Kary calling me and you scum? It seems like their scumreads are the same as yours, if you substitute their name out and your name in.

Additionally, you may want to consider quoting posts instead of linking to them. It's a lot easier to process, which in turns means you become easier to understand.

Potential w/w Wam towards Kary, he justs wants to scumread him because he instinctively busses.

Drunk!me liked Wam, can sometimes see things sober!me can't. Search for w/w to grab those. Think DH/Wam/(Pythag > Laser = Boom) for team. Wanted to wait for Boom, but can't. Will come back if migraine dies down, if not, sorry, should have done better. Please look back at this and the other notes post after my flip.

 

[LaserGuy]

I did notice Laser that Frozen Push for Heury and Fonti's jump looks pretty suspicious as trying to build a counter wagon based on not a read but on activity level. So I think you may be right with that, I really think the third is Wam at this point.

Yes, them going after the lowest of low-hanging fruit is also very sketchy.

 

[BoomFrog]

BoomFrog Do thing, now.

is Boom gonna hit us with a "well actually Wam added both me and Fonti to a neighbor hood already, I then proceeded to write a fake case, placing those I was suspicious of at the end to lull them into a false sense of security so they would be off guard." That would be really funny.

I am wondering what you actually mean by this though.

Close, but it was actually done all right in front of you.

Fonti is right, when I started this case my heart wasn't in it. But Fonti asked me to "don't uncock the gun, shoot it." so I made the case anyway. However, over the course of making the case I'm pretty sure I've convinced myself. Fonti, I really want you to be town and for us to work together here, but you really bungled D2 if you are town. Make your case, but know I am seriously still considering going through with yeeting you.

Unvote

 

[fontisian]

Yes, them going after the lowest of low-hanging fruit is also very sketchy.

I hate this.

 

[fontisian]

Close, but it was actually done all right in front of you.

Fonti is right, when I started this case my heart wasn't in it. But Fonti asked me to "don't uncock the gun, shoot it." so I made the case anyway. However, over the course of making the case I'm pretty sure I've convinced myself. Fonti, I really want you to be town and for us to work together here, but you really bungled D2 if you are town. Make your case, but know I am seriously still considering going through with yeeting you.

Unvote

I knew it. You should talk about what you got from reactions.

I think Laser was trying to figure out if the case was real before he voted me.

I'm really scared I'm being stupid townreading you while you shove me into the dirt, ha.

Very bad timing on this, ask me questions, will try to answer in short bursts.

 

[Malakandra]

Close, but it was actually done all right in front of you.

Fonti is right, when I started this case my heart wasn't in it. But Fonti asked me to "don't uncock the gun, shoot it." so I made the case anyway. However, over the course of making the case I'm pretty sure I've convinced myself. Fonti, I really want you to be town and for us to work together here, but you really bungled D2 if you are town. Make your case, but know I am seriously still considering going through with yeeting you.

Unvote

cool, so the weird vibes I was getting from the super rigid answer order makes sense then I guess.

 

[fontisian]

Mala, there was a time at the eod 1 where DH was oscillating between attacking me and Frozen and trying to get us to turn on each other depending on who was after him more. Felt defensive. Can you quote it?

 

[LaserGuy]

I knew it. You should talk about what you got from reactions.

I think Laser was trying to figure out if the case was real before he voted me.

Well, I spent most of the time trying to work out my feelings about BoomFrog. And waiting for Frozen to react.

 

[BoomFrog]

Would town!boom be less likely to not like my posts anymore after I said it freaked me out, or do I need to go to bed, a tale of one font.

Jeeze you are deep in the weeds sometimes...

I knew it. You should talk about what you got from reactions.

No. You first. I've proven I could have gotten you yeeted if I wanted to. Prove to me that you are town.

 

[fontisian]

Well, I spent most of the time trying to work out my feelings about BoomFrog. And waiting for Frozen to react.

Then what are your feelings on Boomfrog? Explain process.

Mala, also the somi vote, please, sorry to have to ask.

 

[BoomFrog]

LaserGuy Do you want my reads of the reactions before Fonti does hers?

 

[Malakandra]

give me a sec

 

[Malakandra]

**** it

Vote: Somi

Could also swing fonti now. Fonti could be scum trying to egg on a town!FF. My gut says that two scumbuds wouldn't be too blatant like that

Trying to sus another slot that starts pushing you? Boooooo. Wasn't this your game plan in completely vanilla?

I already stated why I consider you to be a better yeet than wam. In fact I literally stated it in the post that you quoted and you cropped it out which looks very grimy.

Somi is a slot that that has mostly been super passive at this phase, but has hit a turning point where they finally started to post reads and seemingly do more than just a guarded chill in the background. Is it a turning point that makes them look town? Not really, but it's still a turning point on the last day of the day phase which makes me see how that slot plays out more.

In contrast, you had a bad chaco push, bad responses to questions that seem to show a lack of town intent, and a bad readslist, and this all happened earlier in the dayphase. Furthermore unlike somi you're still doing the same pissed off defensive schtick today. For someone who had tried to scumread slots for seeming defensive your responses to the pressure on you are chock full of AtE and alternating between scumreading and talking down slots that are suspecting you. The irony is that I think wam has responded much better under pressure than you have so far. And then this:



Which is a blatant attempt to appeal to the guy who doesn't like the current gamestate in order to test the waters with your vanity lynch project.

I feel very justified in my vote. Send him 2 tha essence

This the one you were talking about? It's mainly about Frozen but I wasn't really able to find one in EoD where he mentions both

 

[Malakandra]

Spoiler: Could also be this steam of posts with the last one maybe

What is this based on?

Fonti's sudden read on me feels super fake. I guess I was wrong to rescind that scumread on him.

These feel like very empty statements meant to encourage FF's scumread on me.

Especially since there was pretty much zero mention of shading me before FF brought it up. Super super sus.

fontisian

I don't like clogging the thread, I prefer to find scum on my own pace. Especially during day 1 when I think it's the easiest for your reads to be wrong, I care far more about being right than being loud and wrong.

Furthermore when exactly did you develop this hypothesis?