Things I Like - The Mafia Game - Game Over

[LaserGuy]

LaserGuy Do you want my reads of the reactions before Fonti does hers?

I guess I'd prefer fonti's first, but I'm actually not really that worried about cross-pollination if there's issues of timing or something.

 

[LaserGuy]

I actually have to go for real now so I won't get to them until later.

 

[fontisian]

Jeeze you are deep in the weeds sometimes...
No. You first. I've proven I could have gotten you yeeted if I wanted to. Prove to me that you are town.

Trying.

Mala obv town, thinking through points, saw there was something beneath this, wants to sheep, doesn't want to give up wam!scumread. Kary town, living in own world, holds onto smalls things they think are wrong, like mala stuff. Wam actually kind of towny, has past to support push on me, but still questions about whether I'd make the kill, wants to get this right maybe, Frozen hard to get a read on because long and made later, logic about DH replacement screwing us solid, lost a game to that a few months ago, just town if DH scum anyway. Laser acts like he's trying to figure out Boom but conclusion didn't talk about boom, maybe I missed it. Testing the waters maybe. Reasonable for town!him to suspect me anyway and support a push from friend he is townreading, Pythag, bad, was willing to back off when Boom+Laser were, willing to get back on when they were back attacking, go with the flow instead of sticking to reads, said my role stood out, but by his own logic one of the ones that interferes with the tracker should be bad, not mine which doesn't cause that issue.

Thanks Mala.

 

[Malakandra]

**** Fonti feels so town here hhhhhh. I need to think about things and do some chemistry.

Unvote

 

[giraffelasergun]

Vote Count 3.5

HeuryAlone (2): FrozenFlame, Fontisian
Fontisian (1): LaserGuy,

Not Voting (5): #HBC | Kary, HeuryAlone, Pythag, Malakandra, Boom Frog

With 8 voters, it takes 5 votes to eliminate. Day 3 Deadline is 5 PM CST on Thursday the 24th.

I have begun the process of looking for a replacement for HeuryAlone. If you know anyone you think may be interested in subbing from offsite, please let me know.

 

[fontisian]

Fonti's sudden read on me feels super fake. I guess I was wrong to rescind that scumread on him.

This one ^

Look at the others too, it's like "oh you're scumreading me now, so I'll punish you to make you back off."

 

[BoomFrog]

**** Fonti feels so town here hhhhhh

Yeah, I know. But Fonti doesn't get credit for tone. However she does get credit for actions. By letting this drama play out and supporting me in milking it she has given up a lot of power. If I decided to I could have stayed the course and gotten the yeet. If she's scum she's playing a serious game of chicken with my soul.

If Fonti is scum, she knew my plan and counciled her mates to play this cool. Kary felt very townie, he's a true believer in the stuff I pointed out, FF felt hedgy and it seems like FF skimmed the second half of my case, it seems weird to miss my evidence that Chaco was strongly town read by Fonti. Wam felt townie, asking good questions. Mala and Laser didn't have much of a test, but they still seem fine. Pythag is the most difficult. It's too laid back, not enough real parinoia, just easily faked little "what if scary team, oooo" posts. Pythag isn't really trying to solve. However, Fonti throwing down on pythag up above has me hesitant there. I'd go with a Fonti-Frozen-HeuryHorse with a backup scum of Pythag.

The alternative universe is town!Fonti. In that case the scum team saw my EoD2 vote and decided to shoot chaco and wait for me and Laser to do their dirty work. I still suspect Frozen in this universe. They want to keep their hands clean and there's enough momentum to yeet Fonti without FF's help. Pythag looks bad here too. Kary is worse in this universe, being 0/3 on strong scum reads. If Fonti is town, Kary's "yeah that" on the points I made is concerning. But bringing up the "mala isn't new" thing shows that Kary's been thinking about this independently, so he still feels like a true believer. That leaves me with a Frozen-Pythag-HeuryHorse team.

The little push for HeuryHorse from Fonti and Frozen is concerning. Both players acting in tandem repeatedly is just so weird. I don't think it negates them being all mates together. They knew the push wouldn't go anywhere. But I need to think about it more.

fontisian Convince me that Frozen is town. Who's the scum team?

#HBC | Kary I know this swerve away from Fonti is going to tilt you. If Fonti is scum, who's the team? Also, btw, why did you not vote for Fonti?

 

[Pythag]

I really don’t get why boom of all people would scum read me, if he got bread, but c’est la vie.

i trust booms read on fonti. I have no meta for her, nor do I know how to read her outside of tone.

boom says fonti shoildnt get credit for tone, and lists why, as well as how fonti dances aroundhaving reads while somehow never finding scum. Interestingly I think that’s what xivii once said about scum!boom.

that being said, if booms case on fonti wasn’t enough, fonti immediately is turning on me.

But what am I scummy for?

Pythag, bad, was willing to back off when Boom+Laser were, willing to get back on when they were back attacking, go with the flow instead of sticking to reads

shockingly bad take for a number of reasons :

1. backing off / attacking when boom and laser are doing it? Tbh I haven’t been paying much attention to laser.
2. going with the flow instead of sticking to reads?
My town read of boom was always stronger than my town read of fonti. Me going with the flow was town reading her, cause it seemed everyone else did, and I was pretty “meh” on it.
then boom hits me with a good case, and he's familiar with your meta? Yeah, I’m on it.
Me going to vote for you is actually probably MORE sticking to my historic read of you than the recent
boom's comments and questions throughout the game have been 'building' comments and questions.

your comments like 'boom feels town. i hate everything.' That's projecting tone or trying to look town.
I'll take booms clarifying questions over your 'townie statements' any day.

said my role stood out, but by his own logic one of the ones that interferes with the tracker should be bad, not mine which doesn't cause that issue.

3. Let's follow this logic - I look bad because my role interferes with the tracker, uh, hello? Anyone who visits someone has a role that can potentially interfere with a tracker. What about Mala, What about Wam? Specifically what about Wam - You've already said that it's not a Wam/Pythag scum team, but if you're following the logic of 'messing with the tracker' being scummy, then I should expect to see you suggesting a Wam / Py team, but you're not.

LASTLY, if you really want to follow the logic more, I personally have never seen silencing or vote removing be anything but scummy.
(this is where Xivii would send me some obscure mafia game where it happened) but generally, I haven't seen it.

So in all these things, if I'm continuing to be logical, and actually sticking to what I think, I'm voting you, hands down.

I think this is all predicated on you needing to find me scummy somehow.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

The DH/Huery issue is interesting I see flame's point and it does allow us to confirm my powers as well. My only question is would a DH flip of scum give us any information for the solve.

a DH scum flip absolutely gives us info for the solve, like this post here:

Vote: Frozenflame

Was hoping to hear more from him but idk if I’ll be around for EoD so we move.

Willing to take fonti out of my lynch pool for now so currently I’d go frozen, Somi, Wam in that order

Kary is a slot that I’m conflicted on. I had her as a scum lean for a while but I thought her answers to my questions were better than I was expecting, they struck me as more genuine and less of a guarded response. I definitely need to sort this slot at some point but I feel more confident in my other reads currently so I’d prefer to look elsewhere for the play today

I really dislike somi’s scum pool. I don’t see the Laser vs Chaco SvS approach it feels like a set up. Plus I feel like somi mentioned reads like this a while ago and it feels weird that there hasn’t been much progression or development on these reads since them. Briefly bringing up scum reads on wam and frozen could be distancing too

Also one thing that’s holding me back from putting wam higher is that he seems pretty unfazed by all of the pressure mounting on him. From my experience the type of scum that get by sheeping other people’s reads are also usually the type to get super frozen when the pressure turns to them and I don’t really see that from him

if DH/heury flips scum I think we need to look hard at Kary and wam, definitely some potential distancing going on in this post. He shades the slots but does nothing to push them while at the same time he VOTES for me just because he "didn't hear enough from me" like what?

but yes additionally, we will def not be in the same state tomorrow even if DH is a misyeet. scum has to narrow the pool for us again so we get another flip to build from, and additionally now that we've massclaimed, we can hold all claimed PRs accountable for their claimed abilities. I'm not saying we should plan out the night, but atleast we know what to expect people to be able to do and that will give us more info to chew on. And this is all in addition to the benefit of removing a giant ??? slot from the game and removing the possibility of a last minute replacement who will have to rush to meaningfully catch up in time deciding the game with a silly blunder

At this point I assume Heury will be replaced. And wam is right, if Heury flipped scum I wouldn't know where to go except back to Fontisian anyway. Better to just consider this basically LYLO. If we hit scum the replacement will have time to catch up. If you want to yeet the slot, make a case that DH was scummy.

ok so heury gets replaced, how does that meaningfully improve the slot for us at all? Heury "replaced" in and then promptly ****ed off. What guarantee is there we don't get more of the same? Frankly, who care's if you don't know exactly where to look upon DH scumflip? a scum flip is a ****ing scum flip, it gives us an extra dayphase of breathing room and we deep dive the slot to go look for those connections. You can't tell me with a straight face that you already know all of DH's connections down pat, everyone in this game has been essentially content to let the slot ride and not interact with it all game!

I can't make a turbocase against DH like you did against fonti because frankly DH hasn't contributed **** all game! And thats the core of my scumream, the slot has been coasting and I literally can't point to any good examples of the slot trying to scumhunt. When I have some more time later tonight I'll try to go back and see what I can find to showcase how unhelpful the slot has been but that's the best I can do

maybe this just comes down to a difference in our faith that a replacement can meaningfully catch up to the point where they wouldn't be a liability in LYLO but at the end of the day I very truly believe that the slot is absolute poison

Links in the case. How did you miss these?

I didn't miss them but I don't read any of those as fonti taking a HARD town!chaco stance. Yes, she is absolutely defusing attacks on the slot but I see that more as her slot just offering reasonably rebuttals to arguments against the chaco slot that either aren't reasonbly charitable in their interpretation of what chaco was doing and her pointing out things other slots have observed that suggest town!chaco as a reasonable read to have at that point. Kind of a technical disagreement here tho so sorry for not being clearer about what I meant

Okay, a few things really quick.

Fonti's power is way too dangerous for us to allow to come to LYLO. Short of a full clear on her, we cannot risk it as we could end up with someone losing their vote for saying "Town" or something and that's game over if mafia can throw all their votes on someone faster than Town can. Fortunately, she is also a good chance of hitting scum, so I don't think yeeting her is even going to be a losing proposition. fonti must be the play today.

If fonti flips scum FrozenFlame is 100% her buddy. Frozen was kind of my bellwether for how likely I felt Boom's case was going to hit mafia. I think there's some flaws in Boom's case (particularly the lack of buddy analysis as I alluded to at the start, as we really need to be considering a full solve at this point, not an all-in on a single player). A player like Frozen who is very sensitive to interactions and team compositions should have picked up on this, and I'm very suspicious that he didn't. Moreover, Frozen is also very well aware of the strategic implications of how a power like fonti's could interfere with Town's chances in LYLO and I don't believe he would ever seriously consider bringing her along if he were Town. I actually think Frozen is probably mafia regardless of fonti's flip.

I feel like both fonti and Frozen are going to be hits. I am not positive who the last member of mafia is as they're presumably committed to a bus, or it's DH, but I don't think we need to speculate too much on this just yet. We should be able to narrow this down with some flips.

Flip fonti today, Frozen tomorrow and go from there.

bro what?

ok first of all, didn't Fonti literally claim that her power will not work after today? I think she specifically claimed that the power was inoperative after D3 due to its potential gamebreaking nature. fontisian confirm/deny?

why would I waste my time talking about my interactions with Fonti? That **** has been beaten to death ever since she replaced in. I KNOW that I'm not buddies with fonti, what I DONT KNOW is whether she's snowing me. Given her play today I'm still not convinced that its fonti who's snowing me of my historical town reads, if anything I still think there's a strong possibility its kary. His entire response to my pleas was just annoyance and telling me to **** off and do my own work. Which is fair, but not how a well intentioned townie would approach it I think. He also interpreted my question of "why aren't you bad" as me asking "bro are you bad" which was quite offputting. The questions are very, very different. Obviously they're both kind of lazy to pose but I think the difference is key. I was charging kary to sell me on why he isn't scum, he just interpreted that as me asking him to say "lol nah bruh I aint bad" which is a more appropriate response to "are you bad?" Do you see the difference? Idk why I'm even going off on this tangent but my point is, I really didn't care that boom made a case on fonti that ignores my interactions with the slot because from another townies perspective, theres the possibility that we're buddies sure, but there is also the very real possibility that fonti has been pocketing me all game, so why would I be a necessary link in an analysis of why the fonti slot is scummy?

and lining up two elims like that at the end is a classic scum move. pretty reckless suggestion coming from the guy who just wrote a whole paragraph about why I'm so scummy for allegedly neglecting how fontis power can break endgame and screw us in lylo? this whole post is a very bizarre take

BoomFrog Do thing, now.

is Boom gonna hit us with a "well actually Wam added both me and Fonti to a neighbor hood already, I then proceeded to write a fake case, placing those I was suspicious of at the end to lull them into a false sense of security so they would be off guard." That would be really funny.

I am wondering what you actually mean by this though.

ok wtf is going on here? Wam did you lie about your neighborhood? now that yalls little experiment is done here, can we get everything above board please?

I did notice Laser that Frozen Push for Heury and Fonti's jump looks pretty suspicious as trying to build a counter wagon based on not a read but on activity level. So I think you may be right with that, I really think the third is Wam at this point.

reducing my push to yeet the DH/heury slot as just an attack based on activity level is so ****ing grimey and disingenuous, I spend a whole ****ing post explaining the strategic benefits for the town to not have a complete wildcard slot that will be struggling to catch up in ****ing LYLO holy **** how do you people not see the ****ing risk in letting the slot linger?

Yes, them going after the lowest of low-hanging fruit is also very sketchy.

yeeting DH/heury here is LOW HANGING FRUIT IN TOWNS BENEFIT. If we misyeet a different slot today, we ARE ****ING STUCK WITH THE SLOT UNLESS THE SCUM DECIDE TO BE MORONS AND NK THE SLOT. THIS IS OUR LAST CHANCE TO USE WHAT LITTLE CUSHION WE LIKELY HAVE LEFT TO REMOVE A GIANT ENDGAME LIABILITY

if we were already in guaranteed mylo/lylo today, these attacks against me would be 100% warranted but the fact that I'm bringing this up now while we still likely have cushion should tell you I'm not trying to pull a fast one on anyone, I'm legitimately trying to help set the townies who will be around in endgame for success. Additionally, in a lylo scenario, if DH/heury is town, the town will need convince whoever replaces in to join the town coalition to vote out scum. Town will NEED ALL 4 TOWN VOTES in a scenario where scum don't feel like bussing and think they can plausibly get away with stalemating the thread without making it obvious that all 3 scum are holding out. A late game replacement is FAR less likely to be able to figure such a scenario out under the pressure of lylo. Like have you people forgotten how ****ing volatile and difficult lylo is for town? If you have one stray townie that can't get their **** together and realize which of the likely competing coalitions is the town one, we are ****ED

This one ^

Look at the others too, it's like "oh you're scumreading me now, so I'll punish you to make you back off."

YO DH DID THE SAME **** TO ME

I'll have to go back and find the post but he literally said "boooooooo" at me for "sussing his slot" or some ****

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

fontisian found it

Trying to sus another slot that starts pushing you? Boooooo. Wasn't this your game plan in completely vanilla?

I already stated why I consider you to be a better yeet than wam. In fact I literally stated it in the post that you quoted and you cropped it out which looks very grimy.

Somi is a slot that that has mostly been super passive at this phase, but has hit a turning point where they finally started to post reads and seemingly do more than just a guarded chill in the background. Is it a turning point that makes them look town? Not really, but it's still a turning point on the last day of the day phase which makes me see how that slot plays out more.

In contrast, you had a bad chaco push, bad responses to questions that seem to show a lack of town intent, and a bad readslist, and this all happened earlier in the dayphase. Furthermore unlike somi you're still doing the same pissed off defensive schtick today. For someone who had tried to scumread slots for seeming defensive your responses to the pressure on you are chock full of AtE and alternating between scumreading and talking down slots that are suspecting you. The irony is that I think wam has responded much better under pressure than you have so far. And then this:



Which is a blatant attempt to appeal to the guy who doesn't like the current gamestate in order to test the waters with your vanity lynch project.

I feel very justified in my vote. Send him 2 tha essence

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

FF felt hedgy and it seems like FF skimmed the second half of my case, it seems weird to miss my evidence that Chaco was strongly town read by Fonti.

I didn't "skim" but I absolutely rushed reading thru the post, I knew you were waiting on a response from me before encouraging other slots to engage with the case and I didn't want to hold that up. It probably comes off hedgy because I'm trying to be as open as possible to the idea of fonti snowing my slot but ultimately I just dont get scum pings from the slot so if I come off wavering it's literally because my gut is telling me not to get distracted from that town read

and as I explained in my bigger post above, I think what you and I consider a "hard" town read are different but after going back and re-reading those links I understand why what I said came off suss to you as not acknowledging what you felt to be a very clear hard town!chaco papertrail

 

[Malakandra]

reducing my push to yeet the DH/heury slot as just an attack based on activity level is so *ing grimey and disingenuous, I spend a whole ****ing post explaining the strategic benefits for the town to not have a complete wildcard slot that will be struggling to catch up in ****ing LYLO holy * how do you people not see the ****ing risk in letting the slot linger?

I mean, is it not based on activity level, ie the fact he is not posting?

Also, as I said, I really liked Dark Horse's posts, and it sucks he's been gone for a while now yes, and I can understand the argument conceptually, but he isn't here to defend himself, and the slot in general isn't. For all we know they could be our cop or some other crap. I'm not willing to yeet it.

 

[Malakandra]

yeeting DH/heury here is LOW HANGING FRUIT IN TOWNS BENEFIT. If we misyeet a different slot today, we ARE ****ING STUCK WITH THE SLOT UNLESS THE SCUM DECIDE TO BE MORONS AND NK THE SLOT. THIS IS OUR LAST CHANCE TO USE WHAT LITTLE CUSHION WE LIKELY HAVE LEFT TO REMOVE A GIANT ENDGAME LIABILITY

what is your thoughts on Wam?

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

I mean, is it not based on activity level, ie the fact he is not posting?

Also, as I said, I really liked Dark Horse's posts, and it sucks he's been gone for a while now yes, and I can understand the argument conceptually, but he isn't here to defend himself, and the slot in general isn't. For all we know they could be our cop or some other crap. I'm not willing to yeet it.

sure, the unreadability of the DH slot is derived from its low activity, but that is not the major thrust of my arguments for removing the slot and reducing it to "you just want to yeet the slot for low activity" is so ****ing reductive and literally obfuscates the strategic points I'm making about it

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

what is your thoughts on Wam?

reserving those until he confirms whatever neighborhood shenanigans are going on right now, it's honestly ****ing wack as **** that fonti and boom are dangling this ****ing gambit plan in our faces and we have no clear confirmation about what exactly is going on and being lied to is pretty triggering especially considering we have deadline in like 24 hours

 

[BoomFrog]

ok first of all, didn't Fonti literally claim that her power will not work after today? I think she specifically claimed that the power was inoperative after D3 due to its potential gamebreaking nature. fontisian fontisian confirm/deny?

Yes, because obviously scum Fonti wouldn't lie about a detail like that...? You are obviously not thinking this through before you just start swinging back my man.

ok wtf is going on here? Wam Wam did you lie about your neighborhood? now that yalls little experiment is done here, can we get everything above board please?

Did you not read my next post explaining exactly what was going on?

 

[Malakandra]

sure, the unreadability of the DH slot is derived from its low activity, but that is not the major thrust of my arguments for removing the slot and reducing it to "you just want to yeet the slot for low activity" is so ****ing reductive and literally obfuscates the strategic points I'm making about it

sorry, my main point that it wasn't about reads, I guess I should have said for strategic reasons instead. my b

 

[BoomFrog]

To clarify, no, Mala's guess was wrong. There's no neighboorhood shenanigins. Fonti and I are just reading each others posts very closely.

 

[Malakandra]

Fonti and I are just reading each others posts very closely.

thats kinda cringe, neighborhood shenanigans would have been cooler smh. Who joins one of these games to read critically, when you could just vibe.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

Yes, because obviously scum Fonti wouldn't lie about a detail like that...? You are obviously not thinking this through before you just start swinging back my man.


Did you not read my next post explaining exactly what was going on?

where did I say scum!fonti wouldn't lie about it? All I said was that the question of whether the power would be broken in endgame has already been addressed, and the way laser was attacking me like I'm too ****ing stupid to understand that scum!fonti with a vote block could **** us in endgame pissed be off because it ignores the fact that the power very well could be limited to prevent this EXACT SCENARIO from occuring

sure, fonti could be lying. To do so she'd have to be aware of the gamebreaking implications without such a restriction and would have to invent that on the spot to avoid getting scrutinized or simply policy yeeted because of the risk, OR the mod legitimately placed the restriction in place. Now, if the mod put the restriction in place I think that is NAI and good game design on the mods part, and also the more likely scenario

boom if you think 2,189 "clearly" explains anything we are miles apart on our understanding of what is "clear." You literally don't even address the question raised by mala re: a potential neighborhood gambit

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

also to be perfectly clear I was rushing thru your post boom because I only had limited time in between hearings this afternoon and didn't want to hold things up until after I was done with work

 

[Malakandra]

Now that you know there is no neighborhood shenanigans, could you answer my question about Wam.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

kary suddenly like "giving up" on this game is so anti town and lame

maybe it's genuine? but doesn't mean it isn't anti town. I get being frustrated, I am too, but like just throwing up your hands and being like "eh **** this game guys w/e I'm not trying anymore my heart isn't in it" is just like overtly anti town

like I def ****post a ton on D1s and frankly dont always try that hard because I know that nailing scum D1 is always a long shot and you really have very little to work with, cases are always kind of definitionally reaches unless someone blunders like crazy, and so I feel like the stakes are low. And they are. Because it's day ****ing 1.

Now we're at D3 and fast approaching lylo, and so your response is to ****ing give up? like what? scenarios like these are what light a fire under my ass and make me want to play even more because the pressure is ****ing on and it's time to stop ****ing up

frankly if town!kary has given up I don't want him in endgame either, **** this noise

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

what is your thoughts on Wam?

I mean you nailed this earlier:

If Wam is scum, they have to be either very worried about losing him, or very certain we are going to yeet wrong today lord

wam has always been low on my list all game and has done nothing really to rehabilitate the read

right now I'm heavy chewing on the possibility of wam/DH/kary team

 

[BoomFrog]

we are miles apart on our understanding of what is "clear."

this is indubitably true.

also to be perfectly clear I was rushing thru your post boom because I only had limited time in between hearings this afternoon and didn't want to hold things up until after I was done with work

Noted, and I appreciate that. I'll try to factor that into my read.

kary suddenly like "giving up" on this game is so anti town and lame

Where did Kary give up?

 

[Malakandra]

I mainly asked because your response about not wanting to endgame with Heury is how I feel about Wam, and because I did notice you claimed to feel similarly earlier about Wam reads wise. Mainly asked too see if you would come to the same conclusion about Wam as with Heury.

 

[Malakandra]

wam/DH/kary team

What do you think scum team reaction to having a member gone for this long be? Do you think Wam's and Kary's play is indicative of that?

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

this is indubitably true.

Yeah I feel like we misunderstand each other on a regular basis and I think it's largely because you are a much closer reader than I am, or just generally more diligent of a player, and so small details that are very easy for you to remember are very much not easy for me to remember. that's obviously on me in terms of culpability as the lazier party but yeah, we def express ourselves very differently and commit very different things to memory in a natural sense

Noted, and I appreciate that. I'll try to factor that into my read.

I try to keep my irl **** out of the game as much as possible but you've seen me be completely upfront about my IRL **** twice as scum so you should know that its completely NAI for me to give my irl schedule to other slots as context for my activity drops/spikes and/or for why I skimmed/rushed but ultimately I knew in this scenario that my rushing looks suss af in a vacuum without any context and didn't want people to get hung up on that

Where did Kary give up?

btw im sorry my activity fell off a cliff. i started to feel overwhelmed by the game, its too many pages and the deadlines are short, so I stopped caring about or thinking about it. I feel like people are looking to me to lead waggons and give answers, but all I have is "its probably boom + fonti" and a feeling that I could probably prove it if I had a lot more time and less commitments.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

What do you think scum team reaction to having a member gone for this long be? Do you think Wam's and Kary's play is indicative of that?

absolutely, I've been thinking there are 1-2 coaster scum all game. if no one is paying attention to one of the coaster scum slots, that's 1/3rd of the possible targets that town could pressure to make scum squirm. Assume game is 10 v 3 at start. chance of TvT occuring if T slot accuses at random is 6/9. If scum get lucky and an inactive mate is ignored, now chance of random TvT is 6/8. That's not just a marginal difference. Town slots have been getting attacked all game, and I'm not the only person to express a concern that scum are letting town just TvT ourselves to death. Chaco and synch was TvT, I was poking sabrar a lot D1, nothing heavy and he was doing the same to me, D1 and I now know that was TvT. I attacked chaco a ****ton D1 and D2 and he was town. From my POV, we've just been eating each other alive and scum have not had to do much other than let the paranoia flow

DH just threw shade and hedgy musings from the sidelines all game and wam has very much not been a driving force on anything tbqh. Kary started off good imo and I very much agreed with fonti's original take that the slot was being "reckless" with reads that felt genuinely townie but that also could have just been a very aggro scum style designed to mesh well with the generally chaotic and distrusting atmosphere of the town this game

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

wam has literally taken himself out of influence in this phase which completely fits scum that knows he is not long for this world and is not just trying to minimize paper trail and avoid outing his mates upon eventual flip

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Fonti's power is way too dangerous for us to allow to come to LYLO.

For the record, there's a fundamental problem with this argument.

#HBC | Kary I know this swerve away from Fonti is going to tilt you. If Fonti is scum, who's the team? Also, btw, why did you not vote for Fonti?

I was pretty unimpressed but this post goes a long ways towards making up for it.

If fonti is scum I think it's frozen + wam, with heury as the wildcard. I don't think it's pythag based on his consistency of thought and tone. his votes look pretty sketchy but aside from that I don't find him very scummy.

I didn't vote before because I already got first bite of the apple in responding, and I didn't want to upset your embargo or influence other people's reactions more than necessary. I think fonti is the best elim today, and if they flip mafia, we see how frozen and wam behave tomorrow. To take your chicken analogy, you don't win by being a chicken.

Vote: fontisian

 

[Pythag]

How do my votes look any sketchier than yours, kary?

 

[#HBC | Kary]

I don't really believe in a Boom + fonti scumteam at this point unless they for some reason need to keep Wam alive, since I feel like he was the de facto elim toDay given his claim being pretty hard to believe. If someone could give me a Boom meta read that rules out this kind of high stakes shenanigans that would be gravy.

If fonti does flip green, I think Boom needs to die. He looks the worst from the Sabrar and Chaco kills, particularly the call-out I posted earlier today feels very sketchy to me, and overall I find it hard to believe in a scum team that makes zero substantial moves in a game of this much activity and engagement. frozen/wam/heury? doesn't feel real with how frozen wants heury dead again toDay. pythag/wam/heury? I don't think pythag votes wam at eod1. But I'm hoping it doesn't come to that and we actually #hbc some scum today.

 

[Pythag]

Also, kary are you totally closed to the idea of scum!laser?

 

[BoomFrog]

If someone could give me a Boom meta read that rules out this kind of high stakes shenanigans that would be gravy.

Exactly the opposite I'm afraid.

I find it hard to believe in a scum team that makes zero substantial moves in a game of this much activity and engagement.

This thought is exactly how I lost Vannila Mafia.

Would you be for a Frozen yeet today and Fonti tomorrow if FF flips scum?

 

[#HBC | Kary]

How do my votes look any sketchier than yours, kary?

okay, that's my bad for not spelling it out. the problem I had is you seemed to change your mind on both wam and sync in a very short space of time. like you were saying 'wam feels to wolfy to be a wolf' and then your next post you're like 'sure I could vote wam' with no sign of the earlier hesitation. Then you did a similar thing with Sync on Day 2 while talking to Chaco. Basically, you seem to be very easily persuaded.

 

[Pythag]

okay, that's my bad for not spelling it out. the problem I had is you seemed to change your mind on both wam and sync in a very short space of time. like you were saying 'wam feels to wolfy to be a wolf' and then your next post you're like 'sure I could vote wam' with no sign of the earlier hesitation. Then you did a similar thing with Sync on Day 2 while talking to Chaco. Basically, you seem to be very easily persuaded.

that’s a good take, and I like it.

I can see how it would come across that way.

with wam, I was in favor of him being town, but I believed that his lynch would still have told us something.

with synch, it wasn’t until they started throwing question at me that made it seem they were arguing against points I wasn’t making, which pushed me over the edge.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

This thought is exactly how I lost Vannila Mafia.

Would you be for a Frozen yeet today and Fonti tomorrow if FF flips scum?

I said "this much activity and engagement"

I don't really want to yeet someone I was reading as townie just because they fit into a lot of worlds, when I have someone who has repeatedly pinged me as scummy. Maybe I'm just being selfish and I want the biggest headache slot in the game gone first, but fmpov I don't see why I'm yeeting frozen first beyond 'they're probably both together'.

 

[fontisian]

okay, that's my bad for not spelling it out. the problem I had is you seemed to change your mind on both wam and sync in a very short space of time. like you were saying 'wam feels to wolfy to be a wolf' and then your next post you're like 'sure I could vote wam' with no sign of the earlier hesitation. Then you did a similar thing with Sync on Day 2 while talking to Chaco. Basically, you seem to be very easily persuaded.

This is what Pythag did to me Today. And yet, you liked this post:

I really don’t get why boom of all people would scum read me, if he got bread, but c’est la vie.

i trust booms read on fonti. I have no meta for her, nor do I know how to read her outside of tone.

boom says fonti shoildnt get credit for tone, and lists why, as well as how fonti dances aroundhaving reads while somehow never finding scum. Interestingly I think that’s what xivii once said about scum!boom.

that being said, if booms case on fonti wasn’t enough, fonti immediately is turning on me.

But what am I scummy for?




shockingly bad take for a number of reasons :

1. backing off / attacking when boom and laser are doing it? Tbh I haven’t been paying much attention to laser.
2. going with the flow instead of sticking to reads?
My town read of boom was always stronger than my town read of fonti. Me going with the flow was town reading her, cause it seemed everyone else did, and I was pretty “meh” on it.
then boom hits me with a good case, and he's familiar with your meta? Yeah, I’m on it.
Me going to vote for you is actually probably MORE sticking to my historic read of you than the recent
boom's comments and questions throughout the game have been 'building' comments and questions.

your comments like 'boom feels town. i hate everything.' That's projecting tone or trying to look town.
I'll take booms clarifying questions over your 'townie statements' any day.


3. Let's follow this logic - I look bad because my role interferes with the tracker, uh, hello? Anyone who visits someone has a role that can potentially interfere with a tracker. What about Mala, What about Wam? Specifically what about Wam - You've already said that it's not a Wam/Pythag scum team, but if you're following the logic of 'messing with the tracker' being scummy, then I should expect to see you suggesting a Wam / Py team, but you're not.

LASTLY, if you really want to follow the logic more, I personally have never seen silencing or vote removing be anything but scummy.
(this is where Xivii would send me some obscure mafia game where it happened) but generally, I haven't seen it.

So in all these things, if I'm continuing to be logical, and actually sticking to what I think, I'm voting you, hands down.

I think this is all predicated on you needing to find me scummy somehow.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

This is what Pythag did to me Today. And yet, you liked this post:

no **** sherlock