Things I Like - The Mafia Game - Game Over

[LaserGuy]

I like Kary's case. fonti is the way to go today.

Vote fonti

 

[Malakandra]

Thanks Kary, that helped a lot. I guess Boom is probably right, and Fonti shouldn't get points for tone. The other slot I've been looking at now is Pythag, but this is more than anything I have on him. Still got a few hours before I gotta dissappear, but I'm fine parking my vote here.

Vote: Fonti

 

[LaserGuy]

Thanks Kary, that helped a lot. I guess Boom is probably right, and Fonti shouldn't get points for tone. The other slot I've been looking at now is Pythag, but this is more than anything I have on him. Still got a few hours before I gotta dissappear, but I'm fine parking my vote here.

Vote: Fonti

Don't forget about Sumting Sumting. Fonti is a power wolf. So is BoomFrog, btw.

 

[giraffelasergun]

Vote Count 3.7:
OsieOrb (3): FrozenFlame, Fontisian, Pythag
Fontisian (3): Kary, Laserguy, Malakandra

Not Voting (2): OsieOrb, Boom Frog

With 8 voters, it takes 5 votes to eliminate. Day 3 Deadline is 5 PM CST on Friday the 25th, Roughly 6.5 Hours from this post. Live End of Day Countdown

 

[Malakandra]

We are also probably down a town vote with Wam being unable, so this one is gonna be close.

 

[Malakandra]

Laser if your scum im going to be very upset, but this is so different than how you were in midnight.

 

[BoomFrog]

LaserGuy I've got work to do that I've been putting off so don't have time to do a deep team analysis. But working from memory I can't figure out a reasonable scum team that doesn't include any of you me and Fonti.

fontisian If you are town, I think you are about to become a firm believer in sunset theory.

Pythag Current thoughts? (I keep pinging you because you sorta coasted D2 and the more of your raw live thoughts you put out into the thread the better I can read you.)

 

[BoomFrog]

The thing that bothers me most is that Fonti asked me to do the case on her. It's suicidally brash to ask the strongest town player to do a case on you as scum. Who does that?

 

[Wam]

The thing that bothers me most is that Fonti asked me to do the case on her. It's suicidally brash to ask the strongest town player to do a case on you as scum. Who does that?

You?

 

[Wam]

If I had a vote it would be on font.

 

[fontisian]

If you going into a read assuming I'm just mafia, that's all you're going to find.

#HBC | Kary

 

[BoomFrog]

You?

Ha. I know I've cultivated this rep as able to pull off anything, but there are limits.

If you going into a read assuming I'm just mafia, that's all you're going to find.

Your attitude D3 has been townie AF, but the results of your actions D1 and D2 have been poor. I really did start the case thinking I'd find you town at the end, but you really did spend more time undermining hard-town reads then you spent building up town reads. If you are town, then I'm sorry the weight of your reputation has followed you so quickly. I hope it doesn't damage your love of the game.

 

[BoomFrog]

LaserGuy What happened to "Fonti must die for her power is too scary" logic, when you were planning to yeet me?

 

[Wam]

If you going into a read assuming I'm just mafia, that's all you're going to find.

#HBC | Kary

Play the case not the person. What in Kary's case do you think was effected by the Bias you are accusing them of?

 

[Wam]

Ha. I know I've cultivated this rep as able to pull off anything, but there are limits.

You have to remember, I watched you pull a scum win when you had two investigative results call you scum.

 

[fontisian]

This is expecting other people to do work for you;


But it's also a lie. Because you know you didn't address everything Boom said against you.

You can SAY that you did so. You hedge on it, by putting a '?' as though you're not sure, but it is very clear you are CONFIDENT you have dealt with it.
And when I give you an itemized LIST, you can respond to THAT.

But if you are confident that you have already addressed the points Boom made, you wouldn't need to respond to them now.

The ONLY sense in which you can say "I dealt with that already" is when you care more about DISMISSING the case than ADDRESSING it.

1. No. I didn't know. I have ADHD, I respond to things quickly, and I didn't remember what exactly I said. I posted a response to the case explain things as best I could from my pov.

There is no difference between "dismissing" the case and "addressing" as you describe it, you're just making one sound worse. I talked about what I did, I've explained what I've been trying to do, and I used the case to get a read on Boom. What I wanted from you was to understand why you scumread me, so I can ****ing work with you, but I still don't understand even in all of this because this is a just a tunnel. I understand that you're angery at my inability to remember things, and you think it's some deliberate strategy to throw you off and assert my towniness or whatever but it's not, I just can't remember things.

So for the sake of argument, let's see how fonti deals with ONE point from Boom's argument:

Spoiler: Fonti Sabatoging town reads

278 "Chaco is 'caught for the wrong reasons'?" tries to get me to question my town!Chaco early read https://smashboards.com/threads/thi...-23rd-at-5-pm-cst.507224/page-7#post-24082262
295 "Clarifies, not actually saying Chaco is scum, just everyone should think about it. But Fonti never gives her own opinion." https://smashboards.com/threads/thi...-23rd-at-5-pm-cst.507224/page-8#post-24082296
297 "To DH: But Chaco could be scum, right?" https://smashboards.com/threads/thi...-23rd-at-5-pm-cst.507224/page-8#post-24082298
305 "To DH: Your logic for why Chaco is town is invalid, also, did you look for scum pushing Chaco if Chaco is town?" https://smashboards.com/threads/thi...-23rd-at-5-pm-cst.507224/page-8#post-24082313
867 "Don't blame anyone for voting Somi except Boom" https://smashboards.com/threads/thi...23rd-at-5-pm-cst.507224/page-22#post-24087872
875 Pokes holes in DH's town read of Mala based on EoD1 tone https://smashboards.com/threads/thi...23rd-at-5-pm-cst.507224/page-22#post-24087948
882 Continues to argue that Mala can fake tone https://smashboards.com/threads/thi...23rd-at-5-pm-cst.507224/page-23#post-24087974
974 Points out Laser tunneled in Midnight Ops in order to poke holes in Chaco's town read of Laser https://smashboards.com/threads/thi...23rd-at-5-pm-cst.507224/page-25#post-24088631
995 Disparages the Sync notes as a town tell without actually having read them https://smashboards.com/threads/thi...23rd-at-5-pm-cst.507224/page-25#post-24088702
1082 Says notes can be faked without actually trying to analyze if Sync notes feel faked or not https://smashboards.com/threads/thi...23rd-at-5-pm-cst.507224/page-28#post-24089148
1119 Analyses the notes, seems to mostly say they look townie, but concludes that LG is scummy for town reading too fast from the notes. https://smashboards.com/threads/thi...23rd-at-5-pm-cst.507224/page-28#post-24089375
1127 Disparages my read saying the notes must have already existed before they were posted. https://smashboards.com/threads/thi...23rd-at-5-pm-cst.507224/page-29#post-24089386
1133 Uses note-gate to say Laser is scummy for town reading Sync too fast https://smashboards.com/threads/thi...23rd-at-5-pm-cst.507224/page-29#post-24089392
1208 Pokes holes in Kary's assertion that Wam-Boom is impossible based on EoD1 https://smashboards.com/threads/thi...23rd-at-5-pm-cst.507224/page-31#post-24089776
1468 Pokes holes in Kary's town read of Mala https://smashboards.com/threads/thi...23rd-at-5-pm-cst.507224/page-37#post-24091626
1647 Likes my post ripping into Kary's reads https://smashboards.com/threads/thi...23rd-at-5-pm-cst.507224/page-42#post-24092973
1681 Continues to try and poke holes in Mala's solid town!Boom read https://smashboards.com/threads/thi...23rd-at-5-pm-cst.507224/page-43#post-24093099
1700 And some more [Note this is a critical EoD time when, in theory, Fonti doesn't like either wagon] https://smashboards.com/threads/thi...23rd-at-5-pm-cst.507224/page-43#post-24093186

The EIGHTEEN EXAMPLES of fonti sabotaging a town read. Something she completely ignored in her first response. But let's hear what she has to say.



First, deny doing it, and act confused.
Then, give some reasonable-sounding examples, of when you would need to do something...
Then, give an example where you were obliged to do something, and how it's clear you were doing the right thing.

This does nothing to address EIGHTEEN EXAMPLES. It merely gestures in the direction of sometimes having a legit reason to do something... and invites us to fill in the blanks, giving you the benefit of the doubt for EVERY SINGLE TIME this has happened.

Am I supposed to address ever single example? Is that what you need? Because I will do that if I have to. And I'll go through my iso and find all the counterexamples if I have to.

I am not lying. I am telling you my perspective and my goals so that when /you/ go through these examples and through the rest of my posts, you can see why I made my choices. I tried to address the core of the case by explain what I do and why I do it. If that's not enough, if you need me to hand hold you as I explain every single thing I have posted this game, I can do that.

Let's start with these examples:
1.

I'm not sure if you're familiar with the concept of "caught for the wrong reasons." It's the idea that scum tend get mad when they accused but feel the case itself isn't correct (Frozen in Midnight Ops is a good example) compared to the town reaction of just genuinely not getting why they're being pushed. Could you maybe assess what reaction Chaco is having here?

I was trying to figure out Chaco and Boom via his read on Chaco. I asked Boom to consider this way or thinking, because he was calling Chaco town for feeling like Laser's case on him was just wrong, but scum can feel like a town's case on them is just wrong too. You can tell that I wasn't trying to undermine town with this because I came out of the interactions with Chaco with a strong townread on him and started defending him to /you/.
2.

Sorry, to be clear, I'm not saying that's what Chaco is doing, I'm asking Boomfrog, and everyone else, to consider the mindset difference, and that scum can get genuinely mad and genuinely believe cases are against them are wrong. I'm asking Boomfrog specifically because it's something he was already looking at.

It's more than a just "getting mad" thing as well, it's like, the approach. "Caught for the wrong reasons" is "yes, I am scum, but all of these reasons are bull****." The town approach tends to be like "I'm not scum, what are you doing?" or "I'm not scum, you must be scum for pushing me."

Explaining why I was asking Boom, so the request is clear. Again, I did state my opinion later, as a strong townread on Chaco, when many people (including you!) were scumreading him. I don't like stating my opinion before I really have it, and at that point of time, I was still in catch up mode, with no strong opinions on anything.

3.

Also, sure, being "noticeably less obvtown" doesn't mean Chaco is scum, but do you have reasons to actually believe he is town? You say his reaction is down to "personality differences," but does that actually mean anything for his alignment?

Apologies if this is something you've already gone over. If that's the case, I would appreciate a link to that post(s).

This is about DH, not Chaco. DH said Chaco was a townread and resisted the case, but he didn't have an actual reason for townreading Chaco, just a "scummy doesn't necessarily mean scum" reason. I noticed that the reasons for /townreading/ Chaco were missing, and that's why I asked if it's something he posted and I missed in my catchup.

4.

Frustrating.


That's all fair. My impression is that Chaco didn't perceive what he was doing to Laser as OMGUS, so your argument about his experience may not apply. Thoughts on that? Additionally, do you intend to look at the people who came out with Chaco scumreads?

@Chaco, I see you. Don't need links to previous games re: your note taking, your word is enough.

DH has some reasoning for townreading Chaco, but I wanted to dig deeper and make him justify himself. I asked him about his intentions with the people scumreading Chaco because iirc /he said/ the people who jumped onto pushing Chaco after Laser were scummy. I saw him potentially trying to undermine town without committing on and investigated, and frankly it's feeling like my main mistake was not pushing harder.

5.

Mala's case sucks because it's based on the premise that Wam is mafia and his scumteam must have been trying to save him. Which 1. I don't know that Wam is mafia and 2. I don't know Wam is mafia, so if he is, I, and every other town on Somi didn't know we were supposed to vote Wam. And considering that Somi completely fell off after being accused, I don't blame for voting him. Except maybe Boom, with his whole wavering dance between Wam and Somi.

This is me defending Wam. Next.

[/QUOTE]
6.

1. You should look at my posts again, I absolutely explained my read on Somi.

2. What exactly was Mala doing at eod that was towny? Was it the indecision about the wagons? Because as Boom pointed out, Mala is perfectly capable of faking that as scum.

It wasn't about Mala, it was about DH. Holy ****, I don't understand how this isn't obvious. DH said "Mala looks super town. During the night phase my take was “Malak is town unless wam is scum with him” but I don’t see why scum!mala would then start the day phase by pushing for wam and backing down on FF and not the other way around, especially after the anti FF sentiment from synchro and wam to start the day. I do think that the boomfrog town read is pretty misguided though, boom had the perfect excuse to pull that vote considering he relieved you of all of that stress." And I was like, it doesn't make any sense for DH to believe that, I should push him on it. So I did. And you can tell that what I'm doing because my language is more aggressive. What /exactly/ was Mala doing. It can't be /this/. I'm applying pressure to a scumread, not trying to get him to turn on Mala. And asking him to justify his Mala townread if he is town isn't undermining Mala at all, it's making it more likely town!DH will defend him in the future because that's how humans work.

7.

1a. The was stuff before that.
1b. Even if there wasn't, why does the timing matter? I got suspicious of Somi at eod, I voted, then I wrote down why to get other people on board. What difference does writing it before voting make?

2. Maybe we're thinking of something different, because to me, in Midnight Ops, Mala felt super tonally town.

This is still just me picking apart DH's reasoning because it felt off.

I am so ****ing annoyed that I actually have to explain all of this, because it should be obvious to anyone who isn't mafia or tunneled to oblivion. I asked question with goals in mind. It's not just about the person we're talking about, it's about the person I'm talking to. Question someone's reasons and making them justify themselves is scumhunting, not ****ing "undermining town," holy ****.

8.

Didn't Laser tunnel in Midnight Ops?

So, first of all, this isn't undermining town if LASER ISN'T ****ING TOWN. Second, it's literally just a spur of the moment question. Chaco says Laser must be town because Laser is town because Laser is tunneling him. I'm like, didn't Laser tunnel as mafia? I feel like he did? And it's a question because I don't ****ing remember, and if Chaco had told me "No, Laser never tunnels like this as scum," I would have believed him because /I don't remember/.

9.

This is the crux of it. Are the notes actually from a real, towny pov or is Laser just spouting buzz words? Too busy to look rn, would recommend other people do some of the leg work.

This isn't me ****ing attacking Syn, it's outlining what needs to be done, because Chaco was just running ahead with "Laser shouldn't townread Syn off these notes, they're both mafia ," so I'm telling him to actually read the ****ing notes. And I didn't do it myself right then because I couldn't, because I have a life, so I had to come back and do it later.

10.

I think regardless of Syn's alignment they each wrote their notes in advance, likely Yesterday or over Night so this:

Is just wrong. What scum!Syn likely did is go back and edit in a few things to make them more consistent with the present stance, which led to the Gorf/me name confusion.

Laser's argument that they wouldn't write notes as scum is also just bull****. It's not that hard to fake notes from a town perspective as scum, and it's actually pretty damn useful to do so. How do I know? Here are my notes from the beginning of Sumting Sumting Mafia:

Spoiler

9 - Z25 - Anyway:Trisscar Deadbananas andra I haven’t played with you before so hello.

But what’s your mafia experience like? Are you veterans? And how do you feel about the size of the game?

Also Spak I’ve seen you around the boards before but this is also my first time playing with you, so the same questions above are what I want to ask you.

lastly 3DSNinja how do you feel about the game after the last one?

10 - Laserguy - There were a bunch of new people in Oasis. Why did you feel it was important to ask these sort of questions this game but not last?

16 - Xivii - Do you know trisscar? Also how many scum do you think there are?

20 - Pythag - my general rule of thumb irl is 1 mafia for every 3 players, 16 players, I'm looking at 5 'mafia' roles.

Now, that could be 3 maifa and 2 third party roles, but that's how I would setup my IRL games. (I think it's been a while since I've played anything but The Resistance IRL)

36 - Bessie - Why not? His gambit caught scum.
(I assume this refers to Sorcerer’s 11 which I did not play but I read some of it.)

Setup, if this were my former site, I would guess 3 mafia and one or two independents (we had indies in a lot of our games). However, this isn’t my former site so I’m still thinking about it.

I don't do RVS.

38 - Pythag - yeah but I'm terrified of him being scum.

40 - Handorin - Vote: Pythag

Only one of like, 2 people here old enough to know that I'm always scum, but has not accused me yet, therefore trying not to draw attention to himself. Therefore scum.

Pack it up, gang.

42 - Xivii - Bessie’s town

44 - bessie - So is this a serious vote or RVS?

47 - 3DS - Sup, I got a Shadow this game, he is helping me out. he wants me to vote Pythag for now, cause his RVS feels forced, and he also doesn't know why I gave thoughts on Sabrar

48 - Z25 - A shadow? Like a person or message? Also why role claim(?) day one?

55 - Laserguy - Town lean on Mala. Was thinking the same on 3DS but not sure anymore given the new info.

58 - Jackrito - If he is doing RP after last game props to him because playing mafia while RP is hard.

60 - Pythag - So, you examined your last game, where you almost immediately claimed neighbors, and said "yeah, claiming unprompted is a good move" so you replicated it in this game.

Why did you do this?

and wtf is a shadow?

• response to vote in 47.

63 - Laserguy - Curious. You didn't really ask anything like this of us in chat at all. We barely talked in the neighborhood, even in pregame. And you didn't interact with BoomFrog until much later in the day phase. I don't doubt that you could have inferred this information in other ways as the course of the game developed, it is just interesting to me that in this game you felt the need to be very upfront about asking for player histories, whereas in Oasis you didn't seem to concerned about it.

66 - Laserguy - Have I played with this version of you before? Is this... Wakizashi or something?

Leaning Town on Xivii.

70 - Trisscar - Anyway I'm Town Vanilla. I'd be amused if that was the general power level of every player here, but it might be unlikely, hard to tell with current description.

71 - Trisscar - like your pfp btw, also ello, my experience involves a lot of learning social deduction through osmosis and Youtube, and I'm not a fan of looking at the way people played in other games, just feels inconsistent and unreliable, as well as slightly cornering.

73 - Boomfrog - So why did you claim?

Vote Trisscar
Why bring up last game neighbor chat now? It's completely irrelevant to the current game. Do 16 people really need to read about it?
84 - Handorin - Vote: Jackrito
Cares too much publicly about something out of game (mentor). That shouldn't be up to public debate, and is instead a host issue. Stated they don't want things to be crazy because of it, but practically only derails things by bringing attention to it multiple times.

93 - Laserguy - Hmm... okay. I buy this. It's too weird and specific to be a fabrication. I don't care for how this is implemented but that's more of a post-game discussion. I kind of feel that what you are describing probably can't easily fit as a mafia role, though, so I'm going to say you're Town for now.

• About 3DS

Don't like this. Throwing shade. The mentor being claimed is an in-game role with specific powers, and Handorin ought to have realised this if they had been reading the thread. I give this a scum lean.

Vote: Handorin

95 - Sabrar - Disagree with using this for your conclusion, you don't have your timelines correct. Ninja claimed role-related mentor in #76, after that Jackrito only replied to my question before Handorin accused them. Before #76 I also assumed that it was an out-of-game issue,

96 - Boomfrog - Trisscar is making an obvious noob scum mistake and I hope you realize that and vote with me.

100 - Pythag - I think LG's latest post looks pretty town.
-referring to 93

101 - Ranmaru - 3DSNinja I have a question addressed to you in my #72. Please answer it.

102 - Sabrar - What? At that point I haven't even posted. I assumed you would say it was a joke for some unknown reason but you just don't know? Did you confuse me with someone else, similar to what you did in Oasis? Please tell me how your mind works because I won't be able to evaluate you otherwise if you keep pulling this.

106 - Boomfrog - Why did you pick these names to review? Please remember to be honest, don't make up a reason afterward

107 - Mala - Ninja, when you say they come in the thread, do you mean they would control you or they would come onto the thread as their own and you both could post? I'm inclined to believe you for now and agree that how you describe your role feels more town to me.

Trisscar, why claim role then immediately dissapear afterwords. I saw you had exams and wanted sleep but the day is long so you could of easily waited till you knew you could be on more to drop your role.
111 - Boomfrog - So you commented on me, but I also had not posted yet.

114 - Trisscar - Re: Claiming and then leaving

I wanted to see how many maf would bandwagon on someone they thought they could force out early.
waves at Boomfrog
- 2hrs after question, one vote
115 - Trisscar - Also I claimed right before bed because I am unfamiliar with the time limits of these things, but am aware they exist, and would rather not cause Osie to need to poke me about it if I can avoid it.
Also I dislike the minimum posting requirement since I think it just spams the game, while still understanding that it's probably there so people don't just go silent the entire time. So I'm attempting to hit quota.

116 - Trisscar - Also I have two final exams still and would very much rather not be feeling pressure from both those AND this game at the same time.

117 - Z25 - Ranmaru i know you’ve asked questions and posted a little bit your not as active as before. Which I know you said you were going to decrease posts but still that’s big change. What’s your thoughts at right now?

120 - Boomfrog - Really? Your prediction was that you would be immediately attacked for your claim only by scum? Why does an early claim of VT make someone "easy to force out early"?

121 - Trisscar - Nah, just that only scum would be trigger happy enough to immediately vote me after saying so. Not to mention that as vanilla town, i have no threatening abilities and therefore am only worth taking out as a vote against maf. Therefore using the vote as a way to get rid of me is probably a better use of maf's time than using any night-killing things.
Therefore the most efficient course of action is to label me as a "noob maf" and get town to off me themselves as soon as possible.

123 - Deadbananas - Personally I am worried there could be a claim vig of some sort though not positive. If there was im guessing itd be limited use.

129 - Xivii - Fake scumhunting. These questions were already asked and waiting60)

130 - Xivii - Unvote: Ranmaru
Vote: Pythag

If Ranmaru is town, he will not be able to resist becoming active no matter how much wants to use a different style.

131 - Trisscar - Pythag I mean tbf that is in fact the current meta in a few mafia-likes for good reason. You get much more out of straight claims than you do analyzing behavior and it's possible factors. It's easier to catch someone out if they have to unequivocally state something, than if they can simply imply.

Course the behavior analysis is still useful, it's just not the easiest or first method of social deduction games as I've seen so far.

133 - Logic - I was hoping my post earlier would draw even a little bit of attention....
Logic is flying way under the radar today.
Time to catch up I guess?

134 - Pythag - A play style still involves play, which has been noticeably absent.

What's your timeline for when you start finding it scummy?
- to Xivii about Ranmaru

135 - Trisscar - hhhhh... hm

Okay so we (as far as I'm aware) do not have a role list or number of players on teams to check against, and from what I've been told this particular subset of Mafia doesn't have quite as much of the powerful abilities that say, Town of Salem has.
This means we can't just say "we have no room for this role, therefore one of these people is lying".
Nor are we overly likely to catch someone out in one night with exact proof they are not who or what they say they are, though I could be underestimating various roles there.

136 - Pythag - I don't mean to be aggressive, but what kind of response were you expecting?

The post that said you hadn't read, and we might get content out of you 5 hours later?

148 - Pythag - I guess I didn't see that as role fishing.

155- Jackrito - You would be surprised. scum can do whatever is needed to subvert the norm expectations to their adv. I can figure out Logic to a degree though if he posts more.

157 - Z25 - This is very true, but scum would be unlikely to alright claim vanilla day one and try to get away with it. Im thinking it’s more a bad mistake then anything else.
Still we have two supposed town claims out now and one seems to be a possible power role. Which isn’t good, scum now has a decent start on info.

Unless one of those two claims is a lie ( or both?). Still this is making for a bit of a confusing start

163 - Triss - I suppose I could vote Boomfrog or Handorin...hm

Eh sure

Vote: Boomfrog

167 - Xivii - His first big read list. If he doesn't have one by near day end or if it is lacking, then we should assume he's scum.

169 -Pythag - Since we have a big post about likes, I'll just state this is a really good response. I like it.
unvote

Boom, are you still convinced that Trisscar scumslipped?

173/174 - logic, poking around 3DS reactions

175 - Boomfrog - So, your first explanation was made up after the fact and was not actually why you claimed. So:
1) Why did you claim?
2) Why did you make up a justification for claiming?
3) Since you said I was scummy right away why did you only vote me after being pressured to?

176 - logic - I'm down with the conclusion not so much the role fish tho

180 - logic - I guess rolefishing more info on the claim is just going to be nai here so many are asking for more details.
I feel like those things should be left to resolve themselves but I guess we will see what you all get from it?

184 - logic - No I dont think "fit in" fits for them.
They are here and feel very open and honest.
And I said that's how your post made me feel because it did.

190 - logic - I guess my thinking is it's part of a role?
Not one I've ever heard of but so out there I doubt it comes from mafia.
That and the player comes across as very genuine e to me.
Something to think about and revisit later maybe?

192 - Mala - Logic seems to be trying to solve the game and feels town.

Trisscar is being hedgy which is typical of scum IMO.

Letting themselves get bullied into voting allows them an easier out later if questioned and is scum indicative.
Vote Trisscar

199 - You purposely didn't vote me to see if that would cause me to become more aggressive? That was a calculated and planned move? Because it feels like you are doing things and then making up reasons afterward. Does my increased aggression mean I am more likely to be scum? Would it be unreasonable for a townie to be suspicious of you at this point?

203 - Mala - Logic appears to be actively working on going through the game and trying to solve and has been giving his takes. Jack has also had solid takes on other players in the game. Triss IIRC has only role claimed to apparently set a trap, saw boom jump in but only really pushed him mentioning his name once, then went off on some tangent about everyone role claiming before giving up an apparent other trap for boom by voting because he wanted to appease someone? He also states the second trap for boom to be aggressive, presumably for the purpose of catching scum, was not as high a priority as appeasing someone who wanted him to vote.

205 - Sabrar - I think BF's push on Trisscar has merit and Trisscar's reaction to it feels forced. 'Forcing someone out early' just doesn't happen when barely a day has passed, so that reasoning has no base. Claiming later that the best mafia action is precisely what BF has been doing is also very post hoc.

I like Logic's entrance though more explanation from him would be welcome. Could you clarify #173? Why do you think me wanting explanation for Ninja's actions is 'nothing'?

206 - Trisscar (5) - Jackrito, Ranmaru, BoomFrog, Handorin, Malakandra
Pythag (2) - 3DSNinja, Xivii
BoomFrog (1) - Trisscar
Handorin (1) - LaserGuy

Not voting: Bessie, Deadbananas, LogicoftheVI, Malakandra, Spak, Z25, Pythag, Sabrar

207 - Laserguy - When was the last time you saw scum make an unforced claim on D1? Townies love to claim, for good reasons, pointless reasons, stupid reasons. The fact that claiming VT is objectively bad for Town makes this more likely to be coming from Town rather than less.

…
Logic feels Townie to me.
Boom's tone feels off.

208 - Handorin - Not to mention that both of the names floated were voting for them.

210 - Jackrito - I just want to say as someone who plays on same sites as Triss I think they is a potential culture issue here, his posts are still pretty bad though. I can see him doing this whole trap thing by claiming Vt and playing for reactions I have seen from town and done myself. I just wish he would stop being over the top about things and as I said the game he posted for ref was a terrible example.

211 - Boomfrog - LaserGuy Yeah, there no harm in revealing now, my original push on Triss was mostly bluster. My reason I gave you was supposed to be code for "I have no reason, help me pressure vote someone to see what happens". Message obviously not received, but it seems to have worked anyway. My follow up questions have been ligit. What do you think of Trisscar's reaction and my follow ups?

212 - Jackrito - Like Laser said Boom feels off compared to last game he feels way more agrro early here. In Oasis he was more passive and not sure this time he has jumped on Triss without mercy and keeps pushing it. I'm not sure if this is his normal playstyle or he just is really sure Triss is scum but bothers me a bit.

On that note Laser feels pretty good to me this game the fact he is doing a lot more interactions and not hiding behind big posts is a good look

213 - Jackrito - Like I said before this is town Logic atm but I need to see if he can keep it up because he has some clear scum tells which creates a issue because he knows them also and has tried to work on them. Dropping bad habits is not easy though so we will see.

214 - Trisscar I have as null because although it seems like bad town play, Jack says he's not a newbie. Yet twice he's edited his posts, which makes me consider it's likely he is playing dumb. I kept my vote on him because he actually never town telled.

Yet, I think we should look else where right now. I'm looking at Deadbananas. #61 #123 This is the only game content he has in this game. The first one a question, the second is IIOA. He's not voting, or pushing a scumread, and nor does he follow up on his question to 3DS, which shows he's trying to seem like he's doing something when he's not.

220 - Sabrar - Now you're doing the same thing you're accusing Trisscar of. His reactions are poor but you giving the same 'it was all a trap' excuse is worse. -5 points from Gryffindor.


222 - Boomfrog - I think you can see the nuance that there is a difference. I left hints that what I was doing was exaggerated. And a pressure vote to get a reaction is a pretty normal play. And I was just doing it to generate reactions, not necessarily catch Trisscar specifically.

He is trying to justify a VT claim as a "trap" and further explained that every specific thing I've done is exactly what he expected scum to do. That is a ridiculous explanation. Do you really think our actions are equivalent?

229 - Bananas - Z, is boom usually an aggressive player as scum? You sound like you played with him before it why I'm asking.

241 - Sabrar - That happened late D2, this is early D1 so I don't think the two are comparable.
I have a town-lean on Jack currently based on a quick re-read because his start this game is completely different from Oasis. There he came in with opinions, questions, seemingly moving the game forward. Here I don't think he has any significant content in his first dozen or so posts. That would actually give me scum-vibes but I find it unlikely that he would change his playstyle so quickly and if he truly hates RVS (#78) then it makes sense.

253 - Handorin - I appreciate and recognize the weirdness, but as an infrequent poster myself, I had to sympathize.

255 - Boomfrog - More or less rude then ignoring direct questions? I'd like to actually figure out your alignment. It would help me a lot of you actually answered my questions in a straightforward way.

264 - Boomfrog - Z25 You need to factor in that I am well aware that I'm acting differently and it is intentional. Anyway...

This Trisscar push isn't generating anything new so it's time to move on. I am left with a scum-lean, I really don't like the post-hoc justification for everything and will consider coming back here at day end. However, it's pretty unlikely that I actually picked scum out of the blue D1. If Triss is town then the most suspicious slots on the wagon are Handorin and Malakandra , they both jumped on with a very "me too" attitude. Mala has added their own points and has shown they are paying attention and care about the push. Handorin has not. All their posts since jumping on have been empty filler.

Vote: Handorin

I'd still like to hear Xivii and bessie 's thoughts about Trisscar

271 - Spak - Kinda suspicious of the instant write-off here... It should register a null if it's a noob play imo, not town. Nothing about an instant D1 claim screams town to me.

At this point, I'm suspicious of LaserGuy (I didn't comment on a lot of his stuff, but I found myself disagreeing with him on a lot of counts as I was reading through which was a bad sign) and Triss. Triss seems to be getting enough attention at the moment, though, so for the moment I'll:

Vote: LaserGuy

278 - bessie - Ok… let’s say you are being truthful about your role, and you are town. So you have a person mentoring you, I assume with some experience playing mafia. I don’t like that all your content is their content, you have used this as an excuse not to have any reads or opinions of your own. And even if you have a SuperDGamesHBCVetran mentoring you, they’re just reading the same content as the rest of us and their reads can be right or wrong.

291 - Laserguy - Newbie Town is an archetype. There are a large number of people who, in their first few games in mafia as Town express very similar sorts of behaviours. Specifically, I would put the following as fairly standard hallmark features of newbie Town: 1) claiming early and unnecessarily; 2) assuming that anyone who tunnels them must be mafia and responding as such; 3) responding very awkwardly to pressure; 4) generally maintaining a low level of consistency. I have never seen a player with <5 games of experience expressing these behaviours not flip Town.

You can have a Town lean for your efforts.

326 - Boomfrog - My bad, I hadn't seen your #311 when I posted. Then I'll just say, I find this an ridiculous plan from a hypothetical scum team, and that scenario is even less likely then 3ds getting a perfect power by chance. What is the mafia's plan here? 3ds has proven that he doesn't have the wherewithal to pull off a complicated scam. No mafia mate would trust him with pulling off such a bizarre claim. And he's promised to pull sometime outside the game into thread sometime around D3. If he can't do that then he's prepared his own noose with zero reason. Therefore it's very likely he really can perform such a ridiculous feat. I am very confident that you are wrong and should reconsider.

Side note to everyone else: this is town sabrar. He really doesn't like it when mods do things in a way that he doesn't agree with. But if he is on a large mafia team (4+) he'd know 3ds isn't mafia and wouldn't be so riled up about this scenario.

456 - Pythag

486 - Z25 - Also townread Pythag, glad we actually agree on something

496 - Laserguy - There's also the problem that I actually think there's a reasonably good chance you are mafia (#327, #370), so I'm not super inclined to wagon with you at the moment.

519 - You mentioned Ro Laren as a different person in another game. Unless you've come out as Ro Laren in another game, I don't believe it.

541 - You are for sure tilted because Ran once again failed to leave you alone D1. I tried to follow your points but you two are all over the place. It's not unreasonable that Ran didn't answer your points clearly. Ran's posting style this game fits exactly what I expected from Ran after Oasis. There was a lot of talk about his style being overbearing and it's a natural evolution for him to try and hold back D1 this game. Of course old habits die hard and now here he is coming out with his normal style of ridiculously unfounded confidence in a D1 read.

Ranmaru I had Xivii as mostly null before your guys interaction, but his frustration with your behavior feels genuine and he wouldn't be sincerely frustrated if you were actually right that he's scum. I think this is most likely town Xivii and you should look elsewhere for a D1 push. I agree he's been disengaged and your original read made sense, but your fight feels very TvT. And side note, your D1 reads are usually wrong. Everyone's D1 reads are usually wrong. No one should EVER be confident enough to trade lynches over something D1. There is simply never enough information to make such a confident decision.

Also, big townie points for Pythag for saying everything I was thinking about trying to diffuse the situation. And small townie points for Z25 and LaserGuy for arriving at the same conclusion.

544 - Handorin - gold


Thoughts:

• Bananas town if scum have claim vig (123), unless type of player to tmi excessively, check reads, scumreads lhf
• Trisscar prob town, wink emoji too smug towards Boomfrog, but 131 belief in trueclaiming benefiting town, oh lord they were basing it on ToS
• Boom overly aggressive, bad questions, scummy, hate the triss push, hrmmmmm, not scum with laserguy (trying to pocket them?), “I am the most important player, you are all ignoring my questions all the time, why isn’t everyone backing me up, blah blah blah,” seems to be genuinely trying to help with breaking up Zen/Ran fight
• Ranmaru expected to be more active, misread statement from 3DS, reasked question about it instead of going back, “nor does he follow up on his question to 3DS, which shows he's trying to seem like he's doing something when he's not” - why he reasked the question, projection onto probs town!bananas, self-conscious about not being seen as faking work, main push is for lack of content, gross, performative, “I asked you a question” instead of just repeating or rephrasing the question with a ping, push on Xivii is probably town, this fight is so stupid, cobalt, Laser thinks he could be scum during fight (496), ttps://smashboards.com/threads/basic-mafia.447409/ relevant meta if time, what the **** is 519
• Mala not scum with 3DS, “for now” common new player phrasing, townread too easy?, acts more experienced than implied, like stuff about logic, disagree with triss conclusion but thought process is good
• Sabrar, background, helpful, not scum with 3DS (exhausted with them), push on 3DS later, kind of weird route for scum to take, still background
• Pythag, early stuff bad, answer too long, “terrified of him being scum” common scum wording, 3DS shadow push on them good, seems chiller? later, made or reused meme, 134 question weird, pushing town to fight?, not scum with logic, nailed em, A+, counts votes before voting, 456 really good
• Handorin, strong out the gate, vote reasoning seems off, confident, **** flingy, 10/10 meme game
• Laserguy, townread on Xivii but not bessie, good questions, towny, citrus, good logic and boom reads, good triss logic/defense, that newbie stuff and spak read, swoon
• Xivii, townread bessie at good time, v active early, asked newbie question about number of mafia, likely trap/attempt to clear, convinced self to vote pythag in 129, soulread that “cool, vote: ranmaru,” town frustration or caught for wrong reasons frustration?
• Bessie good tone, first question good, lack of followup?, follow-up ok, trying to coax 3DS instead of bully, op of performative
• 3DS, a mess, shadow reads good
• Logic wants attention, likely not with 3DS, paranoid about rolefish from mala, towny unless mala scum, revisits thoughts, nerves or genuinely try to solve, leaning towards genuine
• Jackrito posts are bleh, kind of defends triss but not real, words bounce off skull. Good laser, boom, logic reads, maybe just hedgey?
• Spak, pushes Laserguy because of dif reads, could be play to push strong player, probs just town, low poster, remember to check back on opening posts

Town: Trisscar, Xivii, logic, mala, ranmaru, bessie?, pythag, spak
Other: jackrito, Sabrar, Boom, Handorin
Confirmed town: Laserguy, 3DS

**** ain't hard.

Ok, here I attacked an argument defending two people, one of whom was a scumread and the other of whom was not a townread. If Laser is town, this is technically undermining town. Good thing Laser probably isn't town, huh?

10.

@Chaco

I don't see anything towny in the Xivii notes that explains Laser's change of heart. I do see some in the Bessie notes, specifically:

The "early feelers to cast suspicion on the slot" being about their slot. Feels like something town!Bessie would be concerned with (not that I've ever seen town!Bessie).

The "putting out early feelers to cast suspicion on the slot" was repeated about something you said to Kary, so that was weird and potentially a sign they just threw these notes together without really thinking them through?


Continuation of the Kary suspicion and the whole "X may have seen what I saw" again feels like something town!Bessie might right.


This argues against a Laser/Syn team a bit, and iirc was something they mentioned Yesterday.


This actually feels kind of tmiy.


Continuation of them trying to figure out Sabrar (mostly townreading him) via his approach to Kary, progression seems solid.


Again with the using the Kary read to read someone else.

Eh.

Yeah, I think Laser clearing them for this is terrible, but it makes me want to kill Laser more than it makes me want to kill Syn.

I'm not sure about the names thing. Like, yes, Syn obviously went back and modified the notes, which is sketch, but the "shotgun scumreads" section is the part to modify? The placement itself feels super weird, since it's in the middle of talking about Gorf stuff, but, eh, it's not damning.

I don't understand how you can read this and think it's supports your previous ideas. I went into Syn's notes. I looked for the towniest possible interpretations. I highlighted them so you and Chaco and everyone after Syn could see them. And I went after Laser with them, because I thought and still think he's ****ing mafia. I tried to be fair. I tried to see it from town!Laser's pov, and found it wanting. Again, this is only undermining a town if Laser is town.

I need to pause, this post is getting too long and I'm struggling find my place in it.

 

[BoomFrog]

man... I'm supposed to actually work today...

.>

<.<

 

[LaserGuy]

LaserGuy I've got work to do that I've been putting off so don't have time to do a deep team analysis. But working from memory I can't figure out a reasonable scum team that doesn't include any of you me and Fonti.

I can't either. So I don't really see how you can convince me fonti must be Town... I think at least one of you has to be mafia.

LaserGuy What happened to "Fonti must die for her power is too scary" logic, when you were planning to yeet me?

I wasn't expecting to yeet you.

 

[fontisian]

12.

One last thing. This is wrong. Scum!Hydras take notes not just to post them later for towncred but to better get their heads in sync, so they look town and consistent in their posting in the thread.

Technically undermining town, sure. Also an accurate explanation of how hydras tend to take notes. Also, I wasn't saying Boom was wrong about the notes not existing in advance, I was saying that doesn't make Syn town, because it just doesn't.

13.

Also, the notes thing wasn't even mostly about you, it was about whether Laser would look at them and think "ah yes, Syn must be town here." I could maybe see some of it with the Bessie notes, specifically the progression on Kary, Sabrar, Chaco (and that's helped by you guys talking about that just before I made my post, but Laser couldn't have seen that or factored it into his reads).

I already said everything in this post in the notes one, you guys just don't ****ing pay attention to what I post.

14.

I think there's a decent chance Boom felt called out by Sabrar on leaning towards voting Somi or Wam, so he overcompensated in voting Wam and staying there longer than he had to, and that's also why they shot Sabrar.

This was likely undermining town, if Boom is town. It's a read and it was probably wrong, sue me.

15.

#HBC | Kary

I think you really need to get the idea that Mala is painfully new outside of your head. He's played a few games now, and he knows how to play scum.

Technically undermining town, sure. I wasn't telling you to not townread Mala here, I was telling you that you were underestimating him, which, by the way, was not a controversial ****ing take and did **** all in convincing you to be more cautious in trusting Mala. Do you think scum!me wouldn't realize that you don't give a **** about what I have to say after I tried to get you to stop pushing Chaco? Why would scum!me bother trying to change your mind in any way, except maybe, like, reverse psychology.

This post is also surrounded by me trying to ****ing help town:

Uh, you see that Kary's saying you're ok pushing for stronger players but at eod your vote ended up on an easy target, right?

Trying to help Syn understand what you're saying, so they can actually address your concerns.

No, man, you just say that about everyone and Syn.

T
Telling Chaco to quit it with the Kary v. Syn tvs stuff, and telling him he's just too tunneled.

I know. I want to know if it's a valid way to read your slot in this game.

Giving Syn an opportunity to clear themselves to me.

If you grab the worst handful of things from my iso, of course I'm going to look bad. You have to look at the whole.

16.

His "your case is scummy but I still think you are town" didn't feel TMI? And he did the same thing to wam.

How is this not a ?

I'm not saying my sketchiness was good, just that it is the reasonable public perception at that time. Why is "you are not reading my slot sincerely" not a reasonable evaluation tactic?

How is this not a ?

What does this mean?

Yeah, but Xivii does that as town all the time. He loves himself a big inflated D1 case, Ranmaru basically caught him in Sumtin for not doing one. Why are you surprised when Syncro does it?

Your reads are shallow. You are drinking the wine in front of you, immediately, every time, without consideration. You give no adjustment for meta even though you should be well aware of at least the Xivii half of Syncro meta. Your list is just:

relaxed players
weak players
try hards

I still think you are town, but it's frustrating to try and work with you here.

Do you keep notes or was this written recently during a reread? Also, who in this game have you played at least several games with?

This isn't even my ****ing post, I just liked it. This is literally me saying I like what Boom is doing as he rips into Kary's reasons for scumreading Syn while still calling Kary town, how the **** is this undermining town? And let me tell you, I feel that "I still think you are town, but it's frustrating to try and work with you here" in my ****ing soul.

17.

So town ask this question. This isn't that hard to figure out, man.

This is undermining town if Boom is town. At the time, I didn't think Boom was very town. Again, ****ing sue me.

18.

Because some people read people making the decisive swap as towny. Because he had a plan to talk about how he was baiting you. Because his scumreads were all on Wam and he realized he'd called out for voting with them later. There are a billion possible reasons, and clearing Boom just because he was the final vote on a town and you apparently can't think of any scum motivation is crazy.

This isn't a separate incident, it's just a continuation of the previous logic because Mala asked. Boom calls this a critical point of the Day, but I was waiting on Syn's big post to make my decision, so I had time to kill talking about random **** with Mala.

There, done.

Some of this is undermining town, sure. It happens because I don't have perfection information, I'm going to end up pushing some town. It is unreasonable to expect me to be accurate with my statements and pushes all the time. I am human, I am going to be wrong. By your standards, everyone should be killed because they've been wrong and attacked other town. But the majority of these examples are only "undermining" town if both DH and Laser are town, and I do not think they are. With the flips we have right now, Kary, I am 100% certain that I could go through your iso and cherry pick out more examples than these and label them "undermining town." I could definitely get yeeted and then rage reference this ****ing post in dead chat. I am ****ing begging you to read me holistically, instead of narrowing in on a few posts you are misunderstanding.

 

[BoomFrog]

I wasn't expecting to yeet you.

So why vote me?

 

[fontisian]

Let the record show that when I was yeeted, Boom and Laser were in the corner making out.

 

[Wam]

Right so longer post. I think that Font boom etc there is enough content already. I wanted to have another look at pythag as I

Day 1 elimination Pythag was on the Wam wagon not somi.

Day 1 there is a defense of DH and pushing of Gorf, here, here.

So this looks like if Pythag or DH are scum they probably both are.

The position vis a vis gorf day 1 seems weird, they don't see the defensiveness but don't like their attack on DH.

I get quite a few hints of TMI here, esp and it may be confiramtion bias, linking the chaco case again back to gorf.

i move to Null here

expresses suspcion of Somi here

I was too wolfy to be wolf here

then pythag swtiches back to fancying a wam lynch.

Above could be uncertain town or scum trying ato avoid a town wagon. I think it comes across as scum on a motive beyond avoidng the wagon. The reason is at no point does pythag even look beyond the wagons ongoing.

Day 2

Early on, there are a lot of back and forth posts but no big pythag pushes.

Here there is lots of focus still on a wam lynch. But here a swtich to sync. I think it's a hestiant scum push on sync. Especially given the weight of confidence several townies had about sync=scum. I.e Chaco

Then is on the sync wagon.

Day 3.

This is a wierd start to day 3, so much its a quote not a link.

Boom - town. I've found your questions to be much more of the 'building' sort. Helping to clarify, even helping me clarify some stuff. You also didn't vote for Synch, so that's in your favor.

Fonti - scum. I said personally before that I didn't get why everyone was townreading her, with the flip, but all that she has given today has been AtE which I don't buy.

BoomFrog what are your thoughts on Mala's 'sorry boom' hammer?

1) The stuff for boom seems a very odd thing to open with day 3, comes across trying to butter up town. Why given the confidence in a sync lynch is not being on the wagon a point in booms favour. Could easily been scum boom knowing sync will flip town and trying to look good good.

2-) this seems like a teammate getting ready for font to be todays lynch and distancing. The not town reading post was here but it wasn't ever pushed.

REst of day 3 has a strong mala town read and a strong boom town read.

I don't get pythag's obsession with the bread clearing them as town. It's a role I can see a mod giving to scum to sow chaos.

THis is a weird post, here, as it feels forced not to consider the scum pythag possibility with the role.

Pythag can you state your current scum team?

I can easily see pythag, DH/huery/osie, font as the team.

 

[fontisian]

So let's look at what actually happens.






fonti doesn't question why I am town-reading Mala, what reasons or posts, or why they are 'obvious' to me. She simply throws shade on my read.
I ask what I am supposed to be afraid of, and then shortly after give my full reads list with multiple reasons why I town-read Mala.
Fonti has a very 'frustrated' response to my reads list, but let's look at one part of it

fonti literally makes no points against Mala. Her defense of Chaco Day 1, at least had the basic point that "Chaco's somi case feels genuine". When it comes to reasons to doubt Mala, she just says I am wrong, or could be wrong, and I should do some more work (this is a theme you may remember from earlier). There is no "Mala did all of these things in Midnight Ops", because that would require examples, and effort from fonti. There is no desire to discuss why I think Mala is townie, because that might have the effect of people agreeing. The ONLY thing that fonti does here is throw shade, and get frustrated when called out for doing it.:

I am trying really, really hard to not just tell you to **** off here.

All but one of your points for townreading Mala were tone based. I explained that he's not new, so not giving him a ****load of credit for tone follows. The last point was about him not getting caught out not voting at eod, and in my experience scum are significantly more likely than town to be caught out in that position, so you're smiley face was just stupid, but there was no reason to talk about it, because it doesn't really matter as a point and you didn't and don't want to listen to me, I get it.

It is not my job to make you read Midnight Ops. I have no interest in going through and finding quotes to, ahem, undermine Mala when I'm not strongly scumreading him. Please try to understand that kind of undermining, where I find the specific examples and use them to dunk on Mala or whoever, is what I do as scum, because it makes me invulnerable and makes it easier to get misyeets. It's not what I did here because I'm not ****ing scum.

 

[Pythag]

Pythag Current thoughts? (I keep pinging you because you sorta coasted D2 and the more of your raw live thoughts you put out into the thread the better I can read you.)
[/QUOTE]

Lmao. The live thoughts got you the multiple usages of the word ‘always’

Gary’s big post doesn’t change too much, I already mentioned that it’s between if I believe fonti or if I believe kary, so I’m still in that zone.

Do you think fonti is scummy?
You made the case, voted for her, but now you’re not voting her. What happened?

 

[fontisian]

Right so longer post. I think that Font boom etc there is enough content already. I wanted to have another look at pythag as I

Day 1 elimination Pythag was on the Wam wagon not somi.

Day 1 there is a defense of DH and pushing of Gorf, here, here.

So this looks like if Pythag or DH are scum they probably both are.

The position vis a vis gorf day 1 seems weird, they don't see the defensiveness but don't like their attack on DH.

I get quite a few hints of TMI here, esp and it may be confiramtion bias, linking the chaco case again back to gorf.

i move to Null here

expresses suspcion of Somi here

I was too wolfy to be wolf here

then pythag swtiches back to fancying a wam lynch.

Above could be uncertain town or scum trying ato avoid a town wagon. I think it comes across as scum on a motive beyond avoidng the wagon. The reason is at no point does pythag even look beyond the wagons ongoing.

Day 2

Early on, there are a lot of back and forth posts but no big pythag pushes.

Here there is lots of focus still on a wam lynch. But here a swtich to sync. I think it's a hestiant scum push on sync. Especially given the weight of confidence several townies had about sync=scum. I.e Chaco

Then is on the sync wagon.

Day 3.

This is a wierd start to day 3, so much its a quote not a link.



1) The stuff for boom seems a very odd thing to open with day 3, comes across trying to butter up town. Why given the confidence in a sync lynch is not being on the wagon a point in booms favour. Could easily been scum boom knowing sync will flip town and trying to look good good.

2-) this seems like a teammate getting ready for font to be todays lynch and distancing. The not town reading post was here but it wasn't ever pushed.

REst of day 3 has a strong mala town read and a strong boom town read.

I don't get pythag's obsession with the bread clearing them as town. It's a role I can see a mod giving to scum to sow chaos.

THis is a weird post, here, as it feels forced not to consider the scum pythag possibility with the role.

Pythag can you state your current scum team?

I can easily see pythag, DH/huery/osie, font as the team.

You are so ****ing close, holy ****.

 

[fontisian]

It's DH/Pythag/Laser. Go back and read the first 200 posts, they gave the game away.

Dark Horse and Pythag have this super weird extended interaction to start off the game:
DH askes Pythag about his vote on Boom over Mala, Pythag doesn't have a real reason, DH keeps pushing, some scum tend to specifically seek out partners for this kind of interaction early, but it's not damning.



This is where is gets weird. This response from Pythag was not about something directed to him, it was directed to Gorf. He just assumes DH is still chatting with him and moves back in to the conversation.

DH doesn't acknowledge that weirdness, calls Pythag's response fair, and starts explaining himself.


Pythag also just doesn't have a reason he's surprised by DH's viewpoint and felt like butting in to say that? He says he doesn't know DH at all, and doesn't have a real explanation, but "im actually surprised /you’re/ taking this stance" is absolutely a statement about DH specifically. It doesn't make sense unless he's closer to DH than he lets on, and that only makes sense if they're chatting about this in scumchat as well.

Then the Gorf/DH fight happens. A lot of people come out of it voting Gorf or saying both DH and Gorf look bad. Not Pythag:

He knows Gorf is town and treats him like someone to be convinced, and tries to persuade him that DH is just being dumb, not scum. Why does he think DH is town here, despite not liking his stance earlier? I don't know, Pythag never explains.



DH, who was talking to Pythag for a while before this, knows this looks weird from Pythag, so he doesn't acknowledge it, and keeps up the tunnel on Gorf.





Gorf looks objectively pretty bad here. Other players (like town!Wam and Somi) know it. He's floundering and being overly defensive, so it's looks scummy, but Pythag knows he's town, and doesn't see it.


Laser sees an opportunity, Gorf looks bad so there's room to push Dark Horse as town. Never mind that DH's push isn't even that towny and Laser isn't scumreading Gorf, who he expects will start to look towny sooner or later.


Somi called this out at the time. DH and Gorf being in Pythag's top town makes no sense, and "I don't like gorf trying to make DH look scummy, I interpret his posts as eager" isn't a reason to townread DH, it's just a reason to scumread Gorf. Here, and in other places, Pythag is telling us the truth. He doesn't like gorf trying to call DH scummy, because DH is his partner and he wants to townread him.


Laser somehow doesn't see any of this, and diverts us towards Chaco.


Instead it's Somi of all people who actually notices that nothing Pythag is saying makes sense.


Pythag responds by saying he could vote Gorf is Gorf is actually providing reasons to go after DH. Then he swings back and tries to get Somi, who suspects both of them, to wonder if Gorf and DH could both be town, instead of the logical next step with his reads of asking Somi if Gorf could be scum and DH town. And he still doesn't have a reason to townread Gorf, he just knows the defensiveness push is wrong because he knows Gorf is town.


See above.



DH knows Pythag has ****ed up now and tries to salvage the situation by getting Pythag to talk more about him v gorf being TvT, to give Pythag space to make a coherent position. And he knows Somi is onto them now and he needs to head it off, so he undermines Somi in the first part of the post and then acknowledges that Somi found something real, because that's the only way he knows how to deal with town being right.

Wam

 

[fontisian]

If it's not Laser, then it's Kary and they've jumping on me now /because/ DH slot is in danger.

 

[Wam]

Wam

I hadnt realised the links in there. I still think your a 3rd in the dh pythag group. Obvs my view today is pointless

 

[Wam]

I hadnt realised the links in there. I still think your a 3rd in the dh pythag group. Obvs my view today is pointless

By links I mean between the two cases

 

[fontisian]

I hadnt realised the links in there. I still think your a 3rd in the dh pythag group. Obvs my view today is pointless

Wam, why would I try to link my two partners together as I am going down when no one else had noticed.

 

[Pythag]

I already told you why I was going for a wam lynch D1

I wasn’t going to NL, and I didn’t think that there were enough interactions with somi for that to tell us anything. You dying would’ve at least given us something imo.

I talked about this with Synch because synch wasn’t for the wam vote D1 but then turned around and wanted to yeet wam. Who explicitly said that he thought this was townie wam.
I thought that was so...odd?

When synch flipped town, that kinda changed my opinion on wam, and thought “well, I guess I was wrong twice now.”

Once being that wam was town
Twice being that synch was scum, trying to push a townie.

Then wam took away his own vote, which I don’t know how scummy that is, to remove your own voice. Lol.

 

[fontisian]

let's look at the MOST DISGUSTING example


I cannot make a neater or more succint response than what Boom already said:


Fonti's ENTIRE NARRATIVE during Day 2 was that she wanted to help or defend Sync.


Her sniveling response to Boom says:


HOW IN THE **** IS A HUGE NOTES DUMP NOT SOMETHING YOU COULD USE??????????????????????????????????

fonti saw that people might correctly town-read Sync because of the notes dump, and INSTANTLY tried to undermine it.
at no point did fonti answer 'is it in Xivii's / Bessie's scum range to do this?
at no point did fonti answer 'do I find these notes to be townie or scummy from sync' ?

read the post again:


This is not someone 'who had a bad Day 2'.

Fonti spent all of Day 2 saying that she needed to sort Sync, that she wanted to defend Sync, but she had doubts, and town wouldn't have listened....
SHE ACTIVELY WORKED TO UNDERMINE THEM

Piss off.

This is the wrong ****ing quote, this is what I wrote while I was still in the middle of the notes.

This is the actual notes analysis:

let's look at the MOST DISGUSTING example


I cannot make a neater or more succint response than what Boom already said:


Fonti's ENTIRE NARRATIVE during Day 2 was that she wanted to help or defend Sync.


Her sniveling response to Boom says:


HOW IN THE **** IS A HUGE NOTES DUMP NOT SOMETHING YOU COULD USE??????????????????????????????????

fonti saw that people might correctly town-read Sync because of the notes dump, and INSTANTLY tried to undermine it.
at no point did fonti answer 'is it in Xivii's / Bessie's scum range to do this?
at no point did fonti answer 'do I find these notes to be townie or scummy from sync' ?

read the post again:


This is not someone 'who had a bad Day 2'.

Fonti spent all of Day 2 saying that she needed to sort Sync, that she wanted to defend Sync, but she had doubts, and town wouldn't have listened....
SHE ACTIVELY WORKED TO UNDERMINE THEM

Piss off.

You ****ing quotes me using the notes,

@Chaco

I don't see anything towny in the Xivii notes that explains Laser's change of heart. I do see some in the Bessie notes, specifically:

The "early feelers to cast suspicion on the slot" being about their slot. Feels like something town!Bessie would be concerned with (not that I've ever seen town!Bessie).

The "putting out early feelers to cast suspicion on the slot" was repeated about something you said to Kary, so that was weird and potentially a sign they just threw these notes together without really thinking them through?


Continuation of the Kary suspicion and the whole "X may have seen what I saw" again feels like something town!Bessie might right.


This argues against a Laser/Syn team a bit, and iirc was something they mentioned Yesterday.


This actually feels kind of tmiy.


Continuation of them trying to figure out Sabrar (mostly townreading him) via his approach to Kary, progression seems solid.


Again with the using the Kary read to read someone else.

Eh.

Yeah, I think Laser clearing them for this is terrible, but it makes me want to kill Laser more than it makes me want to kill Syn.

I'm not sure about the names thing. Like, yes, Syn obviously went back and modified the notes, which is sketch, but the "shotgun scumreads" section is the part to modify? The placement itself feels super weird, since it's in the middle of talking about Gorf stuff, but, eh, it's not damning.

I wasn't ****ing trying "to help or defend Syn" Yesterday, I was trying to ****ing get to the point where I had a read on them, and struggling with an internal feeling that they might be town, combined with a visceral dislike of their approach and a feeling that they were too off to be town. It's complicated, I'm ****ing complicated. If they were town, I wanted to help them, and I asked them questions where their answers could have helped them help themselves. I didn't go all in because I didn't ****ing known they were town, because I'm town. You're just twisting everything I do to be scummy, even though I've explained, and explained and explained. Holy ****.

 

[fontisian]

**** formatting.

 

[Pythag]

I hadnt realised the links in there. I still think your a 3rd in the dh pythag group. Obvs my view today is pointless

I’m dying.
this is the funniest post in the entire game to me

I can see a world where fontin and I are both town
And I can see a world where there’s 1 scum between us.
I cannot see a world where both of us would be considered scum.

 

[fontisian]

Piss off.

This is the wrong ****ing quote, this is what I wrote while I was still in the middle of the notes.

This is the actual notes analysis. You'd know this because /you/ quoted it:

@Chaco

I don't see anything towny in the Xivii notes that explains Laser's change of heart. I do see some in the Bessie notes, specifically:

The "early feelers to cast suspicion on the slot" being about their slot. Feels like something town!Bessie would be concerned with (not that I've ever seen town!Bessie).

The "putting out early feelers to cast suspicion on the slot" was repeated about something you said to Kary, so that was weird and potentially a sign they just threw these notes together without really thinking them through?


Continuation of the Kary suspicion and the whole "X may have seen what I saw" again feels like something town!Bessie might right.


This argues against a Laser/Syn team a bit, and iirc was something they mentioned Yesterday.


This actually feels kind of tmiy.


Continuation of them trying to figure out Sabrar (mostly townreading him) via his approach to Kary, progression seems solid.


Again with the using the Kary read to read someone else.

Eh.

Yeah, I think Laser clearing them for this is terrible, but it makes me want to kill Laser more than it makes me want to kill Syn.

I'm not sure about the names thing. Like, yes, Syn obviously went back and modified the notes, which is sketch, but the "shotgun scumreads" section is the part to modify? The placement itself feels super weird, since it's in the middle of talking about Gorf stuff, but, eh, it's not damning.

I wasn't *ing trying "to help or defend Syn" Yesterday, I was trying to ****ing get to the point where I had a read on them, and struggling with an internal feeling that they might be town, combined with a visceral dislike of their approach and a feeling that they were too off to be town. It's complicated, I'm ****ing complicated. If they were town, I wanted to help them, and I asked them questions where their answers could have helped them help themselves. I didn't go all in because I didn't ****ing known they were town, because I'm town. You're just twisting everything I do to be scummy, even though I've explained, and explained and explained. Holy *.

There, fixed.

 

[fontisian]

Why is this forum like this.

 

[fontisian]

I actually forgot I voted Mala on D2, huh.

 

[fontisian]

Spoiler quotes got messed up on the original, my bad.

Phone pings not working, this is for Kary and Syn.

I

@Synchronicity The "are you asking Frozen" question wasn't really about that, it was me asking you want you were trying to do, because it looked like you were doing something nonsensical. Boom doesn't seem to have gotten that either, but is pretending he understood what I was saying or something by calling it a reasonable follow up question?

****ing

It is so late for this.

Vibes. Felt like you were on the same page at the same time as me with Somi, Mala, Laser, Frozen. Really liked the way you admitted you were wrong on the Kary case. Liked you pushing Boom to vote Somi with everyone swapping over.

I can look into it more tomorrow. I'm not sure if I want to be defending you.

tried

Not Frozen, Chaco.

to

Nah, I will say more.

There seem like an over-focus on obscure things related to other games and people's reactions to those games and along with their followup questions (or lack thereof) from Syn through Day 1. I thought and still think that's likely from Bessie's influence, and I was expected a much smaller and less aggressive influence from Bessie based on her more lurkery approach in Sumting. The activity difference can be explain by Bessie's difficulty in keeping up through that game because of something that may have changed now, but the aggression shouldn't have changed from that. Additionally, I had and have a lot of trouble telling the difference between Xivii and Bessie writing, so unless Xivii is writing /everything/, that means they're having major influences on each other, which is town indicative. I

help

I'm sorry, I think there's a small chance you're pushing me more when I'm tired to commit to a townread on you and convince myself of it, so I'm stopping here for tonight.

them

Actually, looking back, I'm pretty sure this was the moment where I decide to roll with townreading you:

they

How is it incorrect?

just

We're not masons. I think it's towny for you to ask? I'm not clearing him for role reasons, I just feel like he's town.

Mala is just generically scummy. You made a point earlier about him rescinding his vote if he actually gave a ** about hammers, and I agree that's scummy. I do think his eod screaming felt towny, even though I'm not supposed to trust my feelings there. I kind of hated him ending up on Frozen, felt kind of lile how I just couldn't argue him into voting Frozen in Midnight because he didn't want to be there. He made this huge point Yesterday about logic versus feels with Wam v. Somi, and I kind of hate it? The stuff before he realized he'd be the deciding vote, because iirc we talked about how to lay out the causes of those feelings and the logic stuff the day before, and he didn't apply any of that, he just made a show about his logical conclusions versus his feelings. I liked his start of day, I think. Like, I understand the feeling of "**, we let the scum get away, and it's my fault for being indecisive, we need to kill him" and it felt genuine.

didn't

Vote: Mala

Olive branch. Frozen can handle Boom, maybe.

want

@Synchronicity Right, sorry, sometimes I forget I'm not playing with people who get me. Uh, so your post was addressed to Frozen and seemed to just be telling him he's scum, which doesn't make sense for town!you to do, so by pointing out that it made no sense I was asking for the actual purpose. Basically, it was a "why did you make this post?"

Does Bessie tunnel more as scum or town?

to

Y'all are focusing so much on finding teams. It's Day 2 and we don't even have scumflip, let's just yeet the scummiest person.

let

And what if Syn is just town? What if we're looking at like Boom/Laser/Dark Horse or something?

me

Do not hammer Syn. Someone (looking at you @#HBC | FrozeηFlame) should unvote so there isn't an accidental or "accidental" hammer.

I will deep dive on them tomorrow.

I

I do not understand how this can possibly be a town thought process. Dark Horse's main contributions Day 1 were pushing my slot and Frozen, but you townread me at the end of Yesterday, so were the vibes just about Frozen? And if you're not so sure on Frozen now, then do those vibes have any meaning. You threatened to vote me because I make the most sense in the most worlds. Voting based on worlds like that implies an absolute certainty in your townreads and unalignments (because otherwise any two in your not-town reads plus one or two people you're reading as town could be the scumteam), but you are clearly not certain, as you said you're open to reevaluated on Dark Horse.

cant

@Synchronicity This feels real.

make

I feel like Boom is trying to bait me into thinking Syn is his partner.

someone

1. This is something you should remember from Midnight Ops. I keep my analysis closed for me, because I tend towards confirmation bias when I commit to an opinion, and because I know I am capable of posting my way out of suspicion if I need to later.
2. There was nothing worth responding to in #560:

a. This was a opinion I disagreed with, because Chaco made it clear that town!him's goal was to figure you out, and his actions towards other people who were suspicious of him (including me) did not indicate that he was trying to just get us to back off. I had already expressed my disagree, you did not seem to care, and you believing different was not necessarily damning for you, so there was no point in pursuing this further.
b. "I gave him space and he improved." No *, that's what town do. You focused in on the things that bothered you and dismissed anything that changed down the line as irrelevant. This is something I probably could have attacked you over at the time, but like, * it, town do this too, it doesn't really matter.
c. I saw content from Chaco that was clearing. You, apparently did not. I explain that content. You again said you did not see it. There was nothing further to discuss here.
d. A valid point undermined by the reality that your opinion did not change with reflection at all.

Could I have buried you for this? Absolutely. Did I want to? No. I was not sure enough of you being scum to get further into a massive arguments about semantics that was likely to read anyway.

Just because I don't explicitly state my progression all of the time doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Someone who cares to look can see it in what I choose to address and why. I think you are aware of this. I did also reach out to Syn about you, and they seemed uninterested in talking about it. The other time to talk about you was at eod when Boom said he could flash yeet you, but at that point it was too late to get a full discussion and yeeting you when you said you weren't really around would have been both rude and dangerous if you were a town!pr.

3. I began suspecting Somi after this post:


And it first showed up in my posts here:

There were other explanations from me at the time about how I felt like I was probably going to yeet Wam and how I wasn't happy with that and was therefore looking for an alternative.

I have a preference for explaining my votes after I've decided to make them, especially when I am busy or phone posting, as I was for much of the previous Day phase. I do not this because I do not want to lock myself into a certain way of thinking until I know it's the way I want to go. It also leaves the door open for people who are feeling similarly to me to vote or express their opinions at the same time without me influencing them, allowing me to clear them based off of similar processes. That doesn't happen as much here as it does on my homesite, but it occurred Yesterday with Syn and it's why I am reluctant to let them get yeeted.

I did not care for Chaco's case on Somi beyond what it said about Chaco's alignment, and have frankly forgotten the details it. It played little to no part in my decision to vote him.

I tried to figure Somi out at eod. I worked what bothered me about him, talked to him about it, and tried to get him to respond in a way that could help me townread him if he was town. You clearly know this because you quoted some of those posts. Instead, he dipped for most of eod. I cannot work with nothing.

4. Let's look at these posts, shall we?

Dark Horse left his vote on me for a long ass time without actually interacting with me about it. He may just be spewed town at this point, but I was not wrong to question his unwillingness to look elsewhere combined with his lack of a follow-up case to convince people to join him on me.


I clarified after this that I was talking about Somi, not Dark Horse. Somi's lowest five reads were Kary, LaserGuy, FrozenFlame, wam, Chaco, from least scummy to most. Every one of those people had been cased an pushed by someone else close to eod. It was just sheeping. I do not regret going after Somi for this.


Let me guess, this is "manipulative" because Somi was town? The focus on "inaccuracies" from Somi was ****ing weird and scummy, and I was not the only one to think so.


See above.


This is literally just me explaining what I thought Chaco was saying to Wam, who asked me.


Ooh, I can figure out the angle on this one. I asked Chaco and anyone else around to look at something, therefore I must be trying to coerce them with my wolfy wiles. *ing, please. And if we want to talk about not following * up, I did the work to dissect the notes, and as best I can tell, Laser hasn't even looked at it.

5. "I do like fonti's case on BoomFrog in #988. I'm not sure if fonti knows BoomFrog well enough to meta this out, though, honestly."
What the **** is this supposed to mean? "Meta this out." What? None of my case on Boom is related to meta at all.

I think you and Boomfrog are coordinating to keep me from defending Syn. I think this push came now, after I pulled Syn away from being hammered and stated my intent to figure him out today, to distract me, and it specifically called places where I vibed with Syn "manipulative" to help ensure Syn and I cannot come together to turn on you. I think Boom is going out of his to make himself look aligned with Synchro, so that the people scumreading Boom are more comfortable yeeting Syn. I think you threw in some token agreement with me about Boom to make you two look unaligned, but you never had any intention of following up against him. I think your "meta this out" assessment is a blatant attempt to undermine my accurate attack on Boom, because it effectively says I'm right but I shouldn't have been able to get there, so people shouldn't trust me. I think the entire premise of this case is garbage and that should be aware of my playstyle if you payed any attention at all to me in Midnight Ops. I think you weren't paying any attention to the context of the quotes you pulled out, and you called out the Somi one because you never read the follow up correction and thought it was about Dark Horse. I think you are a wolf.

Vote: Laserguy

Choo, ****ing, choo.

help

Someone should compare and contrast Syn's notes with the likes they gave in early game.

themselves.

So for one, Bessie's notes are definitely real and were likely written in real time.

I

I think this full exchange with Frozen looks pretty good for Syn. It feels very, humm, fair? in how they approached him, and Frozen seemed to agree with that at the time since this is what broke him out of his Chaco tunnel. It doesn't feel like a gotcha thing, but it does shed some light on the origins of Syn's Frozen tunnel. I threw in the question to Pythag as well, because it's close chronologically and has the same feel of this head of hydra trying to dig deeper into a mindset. I strongly recommend going back and reading the whole thing for yourselves.

looked

Laser clearly doesn't have a problem with meta reads normally.

Him asking me if I was being reserved here is a through-line to the present "you're coasting accusation," but I wasn't be reserved then, so like, ????. If someone else could chime in here and say if I have been coming off as reserved, it'd be really helpful.

elsewhere.

I had a townread on Pythag for a post he made D1. Don't have time to get it rn, will get in soon.tm.

BoomFrog Noted, thanks.

I

Uh, you see that Kary's saying you're ok pushing for stronger players but at eod your vote ended up on an easy target, right?

reread

#HBC | Kary

I think you really need to get the idea that Mala is painfully new outside of your head. He's played a few games now, and he knows how to play scum.

the

Oh, also, I'll give reads when I'm ready to. Not sure on the not voting Syn thing, but I'm leaning towards that.

thread

You have said there is no Bessie or Xivii, only Synchronicity. Why would Bessie's preferences for not shooting Sabrar matter here, when she's subordinating her identity to the hydra?

and

No, man, you just say that about everyone and Syn.

got

I know. I want to know if it's a valid way to read your slot in this game.

new

I am so confused. You're saying it's not a valid way to read you, yeah? And the "thanks though" is there because?

Should I just drop this?

reads

Vote: Boomfrog

from

Unvote

I just ... need to think without expectations for a bit.

it.

@Synchronicity Can you talk about how your view of Chaco has changed since you posted this?

They

Yes, I understand that, I want the process.

didn't

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.

Ok.

want

So, if we yeet wam he either 1. flips mafia, and we use that to solve or 2. flips town, Mala is forced to reassess his Wam/Syn world and Laser is forced to reassess his Wam/me/Chaco world, and if they're scum it becomes a lot easier to yeet them, probably. That's not terrible, but not really ideal either.

my

Sabrar legacy:

****ing

LaserGuy Your me/wam/Chaco world doesn't make sense.

help.

This is a pretty towny reaction to oncoming death.

Fontisian (Replacement for Gorf)

Kary
Chaco
Frozen Flame

HeuryAlone

Wam
Synchronicity (Xivii and Bessie Hydra)

Malakandra
Pythag

LaserGuy
BoomFrog

Words.

Kary, Chaco, Frozen is the core. Kary always town for her fights with Syn, her conviction against Chaco, her push on Boom, and her paranoia of me. Her reads feel like they suck, but ** it, town are allowed to have ** reads. Chaco bounces between reads fluidly, his read on Frozen is solid, he believes his Syn catch, but he was willing to swap onto Laser regardless. Frozen is falling off activity wise, but the way he went back to Sabrar's read to reinforce his read on me feels like someone who /wants/ to be right more anything, and that fits into the picture of his personality I got in Midnight. His relying on me could be throwing me off. I don't think it is. He's significantly more abrasive and loose compared to both Midnight and Vanilla.

Dark Horse was probably tilted by Gorf early, and that's why his vote was on me for such a long time. He swapped between pushing me and Frozen at eod, and again, while that sucks, it was also probably real. He seemed to focus more on whichever one of us was antagonizing him at the time, which indicates a reactive mindset rather than a manipulative one. He's probably just town.

Wam is probably a designated misyeet. His reaction to pressure feels town. He feels like he's trying to do his own thing. His approach to me Day 1 was weird, and seemed to depend on whether I was going to keep my vote on him or not. He said he gets stronger through the game, and that's something that has been somewhat borne out, with him feeling better Today compared to Yesterday. He can be held to that standard of continued improvement.

Mala feels town, on an emotional level. I see Chaco's argument for him simply being stuck in a loop. I feel like he's smarter than that, and like he has to be being deliberately obtuse here, but then he posts something like " Your not Xivii, stay away from me. You've twisted and corrupted him. You've even stolen Bessie's cute puppy dog!" and I'm like, this dude has to be town.

Pythag feels disconnected. I think he may have been disconnected in Sumting too. He feels chill whenever he's around. The clearing both Gorf and Dark Horse when they were fighting at the of the game felt kind of tmiy. I think I like this:

The expecting consistency from people is just a really weird thought process to have as scum? There's potential scum motivation, in wanting the people who were going after town!Gorf to also go after town!Chaco, but like, that's a thought you write in scum chat or wait to call people out on later, not like this. The fake that it ended up in thread is a sign that Pythag didn't have a scum chat to write it in.

Laser, Syn, Boomfrog are the mess. No more than two of them can be scum. Most of my positive feelings for Syn come down to feeling like we were on the same page with Somi (when we probably weren't) and Chaco, and the feeling that Laser and Boom are being manipulative around /them/. But if Laser's town, then Boom/Syn with Boom just trying to cause chaos and allow wagons to flourish elsewhere is possible. I can think of reasons to clear all of them (Laser believes in his pushes enough to sacrifice himself. Syn refuses to back down in the fight with Kary now because they feel they're right, and they asked about me/Frozen being mason because they're paranoid ****s.) Actually, that's a solid point for Syn, Bessie and Xivii were overly worried about town prs in Sumting, but they never would have discussed their suspicion in the thread like that. Like, either it was a ploy to get me specifically to townread them, or they're just town. Yeah, I'm moving Syn up.

Uh, reasons to clear Boomfrog. Boomfrog just feels kind of genuine sometimes? Like, when he said he was going to give me space to figure him out. And I think the sliminess I perceive behind his posts is what I always feel from him. He just kind of ended up at the bottom /again/ because I have no reason to townread him, and because he keeps doing things to make himself look aligned with Syn. I don't know, this just feels ****ty.

@#HBC | FrozeηFlame

This and the previous post are the extend of the defense I'm going to give Syn. I think they've been very strange for most of the game. The people they've chosen to go after and the reasons for it have been weird. The fight with Kary now is weird. The way they defend themselves by just getting deeper and deeper in semantics is really weird and kind of indefensible. Them saying to leave Boom for another Day is weird. Them using Sabrar's death to push Boom for not bringing up that Bessie wouldn't like doing that but then not saying that's a reason to townread them is weird, but maybe in a town way, because they really need all the help and wifom they can get now.

I wouldn't be shocked if Syn was a hit, and could see myself conceding to my townreads here. I would, however, like all of #HBC | Kary @#HBC | FrozeηFlame and @Chaco to really consider this and what scum!Syn is trying to do here first.

That's what I've got.

Can you lay this out for me? If you're waiting for Chaco to reply first, that's fine.

I'm going to vote Syncho over Wam by eod, if my vote is needed.

Wam feels slightly more towny. My townreads all want to kill Syn and will probably freak out if we dont.

Bruh, you came in after you two potentially being aligned was brought up and started following their votes and defending them like you were trying to make people think you're both scum.

Uh, I have zero problems with you doing it.

Boom feels town. I hate everything.

?

Syn isn't giving up. They just said they're working on a post.

Oh.

That sucks? I was half hoping there were going to drop a case I could sheep.

@Synchronicity

You need to make this post asap. Don't make it with five minutes to deadline, when I'll have no time to process. If you're town, never give up, never give in.

You don't have 30 minutes. You can post what you have and refine with the remaining time.

I'll leave you to it after this.

Oh ****, I thought it ended an hour earlier. My bad, I won't be able to be here at deadline.

You, Mala, maybe Pythag actually.

This is a lie.

I'm going to hammer you.

I asked them a question, they refused to answer, I asked again, they refused again, I expressed frustration and acknowledged that I could not force them to try to save themselves.

They then just quoted the:



Did you seriously think I wouldn't remember?

Acceptable. I will be reading the rest of this, and then voting in the next 10 minutes.

Clear Boom, kill Laser next.

That's fine, if you can ensure it goes over. I'm out.

 

[fontisian]

The posts where I seemed to be referencing random old posts? That's because I was rereading Syn's early posts and the posts around them to figure out my feelings. Those constant questions and the push to get them to post at eod? That's because I didn't have what I needed to just any sort of a townread on them, so I pushed them to give me more. The pushes on Mala, Laser, Boom , the consideration for yeeting Wam? They happened because I wasn't thrilled with the Syn yeet, because I wanted to explore alternatives.

It's all there in my iso, you just have to read it without the expectation that I'm scum.

 

[fontisian]

Kary describes "helping" as like hard townreading someone and always defending them. But I couldn't do that, because I didn't want Syn was, I just had what they put in the thread and my own gut feelings to work with. The notes were not enough for me to townread them, I explained why over multiple posts and took the time to deep dive into the specifics. I want to find something in there to be certain with, so I could clear them and feel better about Laser, but I just didn't. I tried to help by letting them know why they were on the wrong path, by supporting their push Mala when they said they really wanted it, by asking them questions where their answers had the potential to be clearing. I tried to help by poking into other people, so even if Syn was scum, I'd kill their partners over them. I offered defense over four different posts, and tried to get Chaco to see where he was tunneling. This is all the help I can offer someone who's alignment I am not certain of.

Looking over my posts again, I do not think my mistakes were in my approach to Syn, except in not being 100% clear to them that I wanted to help if I could. I should have stated that outright, but I didn't account for their own intense paranoia. My mistakes were in having scumreads on DH and Laser and even Boom and not pushing them harder. I should have provided a better alternative to the Syn yeet than Wam and stuck with my feelings. I should have never, ever, let my scum vibes from DH and Laser drop.