I'll admit, the lack of a trophy is odd. But that doesn't mean anything. Stop saying he could be DLC. It's WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY too early for them to start working on DLC, or even start think about who to have as DLC. The Wii U version isn't even out. There will not be DLC for a while, if there is any. Oh and by the way, I'm just throwing this out there, but in the Direct, Ridley was flying constantly. And he was also too big.
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Theory on yet unrevealed characters and the WiiU/Future Unannounced DLC Discussion
- Thread starter MajorMajora
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Hell, I don't think it's likely he's playable.
The only true stretch is saying it's impossible, especially when DLC exists. I actually considered him very possible the second there was an NPC Toon LInk and a playable one. And then there was Riki having two unique programming, which supports a hazard and playable as distinct possibilities. Plus, isn't there a unique programming difference between the Dark Lord in Smash Run and the stage version? It just further proves that dual role are not impossible to keep in mind. Nobody is calling it likely, just that unless Sakurai says "I will not make 'em playable", counting them out is jumping the gun entirely.
ミスティック Speed
Not a Pawn
Actually...
He's smaller then he was in Brawl. Compared to Bowser...he's about the same size.
Do some research before blabbering on.I did do my research, and he's still too big.Actually...
He's smaller then he was in Brawl. Compared to Bowser...he's about the same size.
ミスティック Speed
Not a Pawn
Not really.
Stop trying to troll dude.
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Eh, just wait for the Mod. It's pretty clear he doesn't actually know any real information at this point. He's using extreme excuses and still trying to use the crappy too big argument. Which was refuted time and time again.Not really.
That, and some things people tend to forget; In Debug Mode you can increase the size of any playable Fighter. So if Ridley is "big", he intended it to be that way by increasing his playable size as a joke. Or a Super Mushroom, but he looks way too small to be that upsized. He's barely bigger than Bowser in reality, so...
Geizt
Smash Apprentice
No. My wailord request would be too big. That guy's eff'n huge. And I totally forgot about the npc link. So yeah the possibilities are endless.
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The Stoopid Unikorn
Spiciest of Guacamoles
Guess I gotta solve this Ridley debate.....
Argument in favor of a playable Ridley:
1.He is too big in recent Metroid games, but in the original Metroid he was only slightly taller than Samus, so size isn't an issue.
2.The game has even less playable villains than Brawl, with only two antagonists (Bowser and Ganon), one rival (Wario) and one meme (Villager).
3.Since I'm too lazy to write it down --> http://smashboards.com/posts/14609370/
Arguments against a playable Ridey
1.He's way too big to fit in Smash Doesn't work anymore ^_^
2.The Smash Direct labeled his appearence with "Other boss characters appearences", making him a boss character for the Pyrosphere stage (when Samus fought him in Other: M, which is the game from which Samus and Zero Suit's design in SSB4 is inspired from)
Results: Since shinking down Ridley would still make sense (thank you, NES!!!), the serious lack of playable villains and the lack of counter-arguments that actually make sense (only one), I personally think that Sakurai "will think about it" (see what I did there? ^_^)
Then, I've also seen some arguments about Mewtwo....
So here's mine
1.The PMDT did a playable Mewtwo in 700 hours (or at least that what they said), so it wouldn't be THAT long to make him........
2.He WAS planned for Brawl and was literally almost finished, but was cut near the end for unknown reason and the fans REALLY hated that even though he wasn't good in Melee.
3.The game doesn't have enough playable villains and Mewtwo's a total psycho...... even rarer in Smash......
4.Mewtwo's trophy looks a little weird (those HUGE legs), almost as if it was supposed to be something else before the game's release........
5.If Sakurai wants to make a lot of profits with DLC, Mewtwo will be instantly chosen, because everyone wants it in Smash 4. (Yes, I said IT)
Argument in favor of a playable Ridley:
1.He is too big in recent Metroid games, but in the original Metroid he was only slightly taller than Samus, so size isn't an issue.
2.The game has even less playable villains than Brawl, with only two antagonists (Bowser and Ganon), one rival (Wario) and one meme (Villager).
3.Since I'm too lazy to write it down
--> http://smashboards.com/posts/14609370/Arguments against a playable Ridey
1.
2.The Smash Direct labeled his appearence with "Other boss characters appearences", making him a boss character for the Pyrosphere stage (when Samus fought him in Other: M, which is the game from which Samus and Zero Suit's design in SSB4 is inspired from)
Results: Since shinking down Ridley would still make sense (thank you, NES!!!), the serious lack of playable villains and the lack of counter-arguments that actually make sense (only one), I personally think that Sakurai "will think about it" (see what I did there? ^_^)
Then, I've also seen some arguments about Mewtwo....
So here's mine
1.The PMDT did a playable Mewtwo in 700 hours (or at least that what they said), so it wouldn't be THAT long to make him........
2.He WAS planned for Brawl and was literally almost finished, but was cut near the end for unknown reason and the fans REALLY hated that even though he wasn't good in Melee.
3.The game doesn't have enough playable villains and Mewtwo's a total psycho...... even rarer in Smash......
4.Mewtwo's trophy looks a little weird (those HUGE legs), almost as if it was supposed to be something else before the game's release........
5.If Sakurai wants to make a lot of profits with DLC, Mewtwo will be instantly chosen, because everyone wants it in Smash 4. (Yes, I said IT)
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Dyguren
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I'm sorry but....what makes you think it's "too early" for them to be working on DLC? Don't you think that a team could have been working on it already a while ago? How late do you think Hyrule warrior's DLCs came out? Clearly you don't know how game development works... Different teams work on each aspect of the game at the same time, meaning they can come out all together at the same time or very close to each other.
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The Stoopid Unikorn
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Technically, Koei Tecmo is working on Hyrule Warriors, not Nintendo. Different companies, different ways to do stuff.
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Yeah, it can be started right after the April Direct or soon after if he thought he should be playable instead. However, it does take about a year. What this means is that if he was going to be playable on the Wii U version right away, the direct was a troll move to trick us. Which is totally within his style.
His point still stands regardless. There is no "too early". But how long it takes to come out does matter.
The Stoopid Unikorn
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Wait a minute, Sakurai said that both versions will have the same roster, heck he even said he removed IC cause they didn't work on the 3DS...........
But then again, this is Sakurai we're talking about, so I guess all we have to do is wait.
Well, I guess I stand corrected........
Maybe he will announce DLC a month or two after the Wii U version's release, to build up even more hype, maybe not, this is Sakurai after all
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Dyguren
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Just because Koei Tecmo makes the game doesn't mean Nintendo, who are the ones at the top and gives orders, decides what they want or not and when they want it or not as a game going for THEIR console. In this case, sure Sakurai likes and will do stuff his way, but if Nintendo wants an important game to get DLC at a certain of time, or just fulfill certain terms, Sakurai and his team has to make it happen. That's just how it is. Nintendo has the last and ultimate word in business, because games, whoever makes them, affect the company's sales in the end.
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The Stoopid Unikorn
Spiciest of Guacamoles
And we all know that Nintendo has a history of bad decisions
Releasing Virtual Boy early, Releasing Wii U early, Pink Gold Peach, etc.
Seriously though, if we want Ridley or Mewtwo or whoever we want, we have to make REALLY good arguments in favor of thier inclusion ("This character would be awesome in Smash" isn't good enough, guys!)
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Wouldn't change. If he adds more to the Wii U version, you can Data Transfer or DLC them right away(obviously for a DT) or later/right away for DLC. Remember, the idea is they overall will be identical. It does mean the IC's are pretty much not coming back till the next unique iteration probably, but eh.
Outside of DLC modes, anyway. I hope so too~
The Stoopid Unikorn
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Looks like the Ice Climbers finally caught a cold XD
I don't really mind that they're not here, their chaingrabs were really annoying, especially if you play at close range.
Dyguren
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Other than the high demand they already have to be in the game since years ago.....And we all know that Nintendo has a history of bad decisions
Releasing Virtual Boy early, Releasing Wii U early, Pink Gold Peach, etc.
I'm just kidding, but if we want Ridley or Mewtwo or whoever we want, we have to make REALLY good arguments in favor of thier inclusion ("This character would be awesome in Smash" isn't good enough, guys!)
Mewtwo has been modified a bit in Project M and ppl loves him (as if ppl didn't love him enough already....), so it's not like Sakurai has an excuse to say that he didn't know how to make him work again and better, I mean, whatever random people can do, he can do it better because he is a proffesional (or at least the team he works with). So Mewtwo has both chances to be made better and unique (i mean pokemon has lots of moves come on...) and he is technically a character he already worked on before.
About Ridley...obviously high demand as well, he is one of the big 3 i mean come on...also he is the real second most important rep possible from the metroid series and we have only got one rep from metroid splitted in 2 forms, Samus and ZSS, which are the same person in the end so it's like we still have one rep from the damn game... and he even got a modded into Brawl and it looks "nice" and fun somehow, and as i said before, whatever ppl can make work, Sakurai can do it better for sure. It's not like they are impossible characters at all in the end. And don't even get me started with the size issue because it isn't an issue at all, I could tell how his size from being almost the same size as samus in the first game of metroid, has been changing from big to small everytime nintendo wanted too, and bowser has been an example of what sizes really don't matter as well lol. They can adjust it in a way it works and that's it. So there's no excuse with that either.
It covers whatever he said he needed to take in mind to think about when including character in the game or not.
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Ironically, Chain Grabs were already removed. Just like everybody who could glide doesn't.(I'm sure he removed the mechanic ideally, but he made it sound like he didn't want Pit to glide anymore. Just weird word choices. He should've just told us he removed the mechanic, unless he didn't do so at the time and actually removed it from everybody else later through testing. So, say, Ridley could glide as a special mechanic solo to him because it's more reasonable than regular flight in gameplay)
The Stoopid Unikorn
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You know I made similar arguments a few posts above, right?
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Dyguren
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Yes, in a way i just tried to remind that the best arguments for them making it in, are already made, lol.
lightdasher
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I don't mean to add fuel to the fire, but I'd be pretty iritated if Ridley got in before Ice Climbers.
But as Dr. Mario has proven, you don't truely stay dead hrm?
But as Dr. Mario has proven, you don't truely stay dead hrm?
At the very least they have a good chance in the next Smash, provided the next handheld system is strong enough to handle them! (it SHOULD be though!)
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As of now, Ridley has an actual playable chance on the 3DS while the Ice Climbers have a very tiny chance of being fixed. Really, it's realistically Ridley or neither. I'd say the new guy who can be made to work being in is a far more reasonable approach. It hurts nothing to add more if possible.
And I'd say Dr. Mario easily got the last minute clone(and probably not from an alt) due to him being a vet. He was easy to make. He's literally just Mario with two different moves, different taunts an knockback/weight gameplay wise.
Cherubas
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Except you didn't prove me blatantly wrong.They didn't dumb down the 3DS version. They pushed it to its limits while making it as balanced as possible without extreme lag. And we still get tons of online lag. Like, really badly at times(which is why having 8 Climbers on screen at 60 fps each would likely cause enough lag to either ban them online as is, freeze up the game, or just piss people off. The only other option was to make them unavailable for all online play. Mii Fighters are only banned in one of the two online options. Think about that for a moment).
I can respect that people are annoyed that the Wii U version was held back by the 3DS version. Sakurai even outright told us that would probably be the case. Some have accepted it, some haven't. Not a big deal. But the other way around just isn't possible.
...But I'm not sure you're trying to actually do anything but make a trollish argument at this point. Still worth proving you blatantly wrong.
It sucks that YOU get tons of lag. I very rarely get any lag. Guess that proves YOU blatantly wrong. Pwned. Umad?
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In a way, Dr. Mario gives Mewtwo hope because it shows Sakurai is willing to consider cut characters from Melee and bring them back in some way. Dr. Mario likely was going to just be an alternate skin and then turned into a full character, but still.
Gotta find hope where I can...
Gotta find hope where I can...
The Quarter Master
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If you keep watching that clip from the Direct, you'll notice for a brief moment while the screen is fading, Ridley takes damage and is pushed back a bit. Huh.
The Stoopid Unikorn
Spiciest of Guacamoles
That proves nothing...... for all we know, he could be a stage boss that is knockable.
Girnee
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None of the bosses we have seen on the 3DS version have knockback, I find it hard to believe they would give only some of the stage bosses knockback. Also, Ridley didn't get knocked back during both of his boss fights in Brawl.
The Quarter Master
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^ I like this guy. He thinks logically.
I really do believe Ridley will be in this time. There is already so much proof. I must admit I was never a Ridley fan before, but after I visited the Ridley thread here on Smashboards, my whole view on him changed. I WANT Ridley to be in this game. Almost everyone wants him to be in this game. Everyone in the Smash community knows about Ridley. He's practically a MEME now. His popularity has grown so much that Sakurai cannot ignore it. And I don't think he will. I think the reason we didn't get Ridley and any other of the final characters in the 3DS version is because if we knew about them and got them all already, our hype for the Wii U version wouldn't be that great. Sure, us hardcore Smashers would still get it, but what about the thousands of kids out there without a Wii U? They would just buy a 3DS and the 3DS version because it's cheaper! But if Sakurai made the SMART move (which I'm sure he will), we'll be getting Ridley and the rest of the characters with the Wii U version. This way, kids would want the Wii U version more than the 3DS version because it's the only way to get these characters (And plus better graphics too, something all those little brats are picky about nowadays)! This just makes too much sense!
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[Obnoxshush/Dasshizer]
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New announcer clips have been found.
Smash World, Master Orders, Crazy Orders, Choose a ( sandwich) build? What does this mean for our beloved unrevealed characters? Is Sakurai opening a restraunt find out next time, Same smash group, same Smash thread.
This could be the Wii U exclusive mode. If this is true the chance of more playable characters is up in the air. What do you guys think of this leak and more importantly Master Orders or Crazy Orders.
This could be the Wii U exclusive mode. If this is true the chance of more playable characters is up in the air. What do you guys think of this leak and more importantly Master Orders or Crazy Orders.
The Quarter Master
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"Choose a build" sounds like it's asking you to choose a build of the game, or perhaps a custom stage from the Wii U version (build)? And if the Tower of Smash leak is true (yes, I'm still holding onto that leak), perhaps the "Master Orders, Crazy Orders, and Special Orders" could be referring to boss-run selection types?...
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Dr. Mario was very unlikely to be a skin at all. He had a specific moveset that couldn't be put on Mario. However, it does mean past characters have a better chance.
Okay, change that possibly. He was a costume but made a separate character due to having a different moveset and to please past fans. I'd say it worked. He's got about a 50/50 like/hate ratio. The article is very fishy and possibley fake. Who knows.
Also, it does appear by now some people on this topic are just blatantly trying to troll and not give a single real argument. Don't take their bait, people.
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SureNsync
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Its what hope crushers do when they can't afford a Wii U.
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You know how Sakurai loves to troll? He doesn't give Villager a Fishing Rod to "bait" people with.
The Stoopid Unikorn
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No, he gave him a bug net!You know how Sakurai loves to troll? He doesn't give Villager a Fishing Rod to "bait" people with.
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Duskinja
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I've said this time and time again. I just don't see there being any new character additions in the Wii U version. There are two reasons for this. One, the 3DS version would be left degraded and sales likely won't be as high because of the lack of said "additional characters". I understand that people are hoping that the Wii U transfer option sends these characters to the 3DS version, but Sakurai and the menu for it itself shows that is only for custom moveset transfers between the two versions. Two, Sakurai said that the character roster will be the same between both versions. This means that we likely won't see anything new(unless possible dlc or otherwise). In terms of characters like the Ice Climbers: chances of them being in the Wii U version is slim. If they couldn't be in the 3DS version(Sakurai stated that it was terribly difficult), then seeing them there would account to reason one^. I'm sorry guys, but I wouldn't get your hopes up on this. If you get disappointed on the Wii U version's release day because you didn't get the characters you wanted, you set yourself up for that disappointment, not Sakurai.
MewtwoX825
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Regarding Sakurai's poor choice of words regarding Melee importing or how new characters are chosen. How would the option be for having one of Mewtwo's Mega evos.
We would get a Mega rep out of it and it's still technically Mewtwo. I know that the Y form would be logical, but I think X could work better since this is a semi-fighting game and X seems to get more representation With Xerneas being the only one of the two mascots who is a pokeball summon. Plus X Mewtwo needs some spotlight other than making people prefer the Majin Buu ripoff.
We would get a Mega rep out of it and it's still technically Mewtwo. I know that the Y form would be logical, but I think X could work better since this is a semi-fighting game and X seems to get more representation With Xerneas being the only one of the two mascots who is a pokeball summon. Plus X Mewtwo needs some spotlight other than making people prefer the Majin Buu ripoff.
Speaking only personally, I would hate that idea. I'm probably just biased though, but still I absolutely cannot stand both Mega Mewtwos.
Sakurai never said Mewtwo was impossible, so there's no need to replace him with Mega forms.
MewtwoX825
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I can't either but Sakurai is still unpredictable. What bugs the hell out of me though is why even mention the possibility of Mewtwo even being in this game in the first place. It's possible that Sakurai could a refered to Mega Y during the XY q&a at last years E3 which is why it might be a slim possibility of happening
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