Social The Zero Suit/Samus in Shorts Social

[Dr. Tuen]

I put like one hour into Bayonetta! HA. Oh, what's that? I put all the other hours into this never ending thing called my dissertation? Damn. I better finish soon so I can practice >.>

 

[Metallinatus]

So.... does anyone know where Federation Force takes place in the timeline already?

 

[andrebound]

In an alternate ****ty universe. The same one as Other M.

 

[Otterz]

Only thing I learned from the Direct about FF is that I'm still not buying it.

 

[David Viran]

Oh yeah, congrats to @Nairo for taking shots fired 2 when everybody was doubting it.

 

[Shaya]

That was legitimately a real life ascension to super saiyan +1.
Not seen on screen because bad stream.

 

[Wooper]

I just went 3-2 at my first local and people were telling me I only won sets because of zss LOL

 

[pichuthedk]

I just went 3-2 at my first local and people were telling me I only won sets because of zss LOL

Tell them to play zss and have someone time a roll when she pivot grabs tell them to roll twice and then grab her.

I once missed a pivot grab had a Gannon roll back twice and then grab me....

People who talk about zss being op should .....

Lol @Take 5
I saw your puppy was pretty Kawaii and I am definitely a Cat ɢ̶ɪ̶ʀ̶ʟ̶... errr Cat Person xD

aside from that youtube gaming decided you should be at the front of my Gaming Subscriptions.

 

[Megamang]

Is there a Discord, IRC, anything else, channel/group/etc where people discuss ZSS stuff off smashboards? I envision a place where people can go to talk about stuff without being sure, kinda pick eachother's brains for stuff... I wanna talk about the Shiek MU, and get some ideas on other players thoughts. I saw the skype group, is that used like that? I have only used skype for calling, not sure if there is a feature for group chats or anything

 

[NeoSeth]

So apparently Uair, Nair and Dthrow have had 2% damage nerfs. I've been testing it and it seems like Dthrow actually combos a little longer right now; I've been able to get hits at higher percents I don't usually get them at. The Uair>Uair>UpB combo also still worked for me, I just had to get the opponent to a higher percent and it was still inescapable. No idea on what the Nair nerf could imply.

 

[Dr. Tuen]

So apparently Uair, Nair and Dthrow have had 2% damage nerfs. I've been testing it and it seems like Dthrow actually combos a little longer right now; I've been able to get hits at higher percents I don't usually get them at. The Uair>Uair>UpB combo also still worked for me, I just had to get the opponent to a higher percent and it was still inescapable. No idea on what the Nair nerf could imply.

Other than the straight damage decrease, the nair nerf may also reduce shield hit lag. That is shared across the attacker and the defender. Shield stun, however, also drops by one frame. This means that move is generally less safe on shield by one frame.

Also! Since shield stun was reduced and perfect shield twice shield stun proportionally, the coherence between normal shielding and perfect shielding drops mildly for a small subset of moves (since most benefit from the lack of a required shield drop, this is largely insignificant bit mildly interesting nonetheless).

 

[Blakexd9]

Nerfs aren't too bad. Our BnBs work later now, and our damage output is less. And I'm assuming the nair nerf makes it less safe on shield, which is unfortunate. In theory, shouldn't the uair nerf make it combo into itself more reliably? I've played around with it, but it's hard to pinpoint what is placebo and what's not.

 

[David Viran]

From my testing uair kills at around the same percents off the ground so a kb adjustment may have happened to balance out the damage change.

 

[Dr. Tuen]

From my testing uair kills at around the same percents off the ground so a kb adjustment may have happened to balance out the damage change.

If I'm reading the DIFF files right, you got it.

ZSS Diffs
UAIR
Damage - 8% --> 6.5%
KBG - 110 --> 125

NAIR
Damage - 10% --> 8%
KBG - 80 --> 96
BKB - 40 --> 38
[Various size changes, roughly 1 unit less in all changes]*

BACK THROW
Damage - 4 --> 6
KBG - 60 --> 45
BKB - 70 --> 72

DOWN THROW
Damage - 5 --> 3
KBG - 25 --> 60
BKB - 100 --> 90

SIDE B 1
BKB - 80 --> 100

SIDE B [Middle Hits]
Damage - 0.8 --> 1.2
KBG - 90 --> 70
[Various size changes]

SIDE B FINAL
Damage - 6 --> 7.5
[Various size changes]

============================
============================

Down throw's KBG change is super intense. It looks like uair is 1.5% less, not 2% less. It's interesting bunch of changes, once the KBG/BKB values are added to the mix. Not sure how it'll all pan out for her, but I have some pre-patch uair/uair/upB and uair/upB combo numbers that I can compare to the current patch at some point. Looks like people are already seeing that it leads to the combo's viability range shifting to later percents. It may become less of a [35-45%] sort of thing and more of a [45-55%] sort of thing (not exact numbers, I'm guestimating].

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

So can sSpecial finally be used for ****ING ANYTHING?
It got a damage increase and reduced ending lag
Also hitbox changes

 

[andrebound]

From what I have tested, nair to flip kick spike doesn't true combo anymore.

 

[Bowserboy3]

I only really picked ZSS up properly about 3 weeks ago. What exactly do these changes mean for her?

Just from looking at them, to me, it doesn't look like they change her game much at all (unlike Sheik's changes).

 

[Shaya]

From what I have tested, nair to flip kick spike doesn't true combo anymore.

The really large growth of it is probably reducing the range of it working by a noticeable amount.
But there's nothing that should be stopping it from working at least in some range.
[no angle changes or more lag]

 

[Otterz]

The change in Down Throw's KBG looks intimidating, although the damage nerf balances it out somewhat. Could this make it more DI-able?

 

[Milli]

I'm actually very excited for the Samus buff, I really enjoy a more aggressive style Samus and she looks much more fun and enjoyable to play. That being said I do enjoy zss, I'm curious myself to see what this means for her.

 

[J_the_Man]

For a character built around a High Risk/High Reward playstyle, increasing the risk whilst decreasing the reward seems like utter nonsense from a balance perspective. I really hate this patch right now.

EDIT: Has anyone else's spacing with Nair been thrown off? Maybe I'm working with a controller I'm not comfortable with, but I could have sworn that its reach isn't as long as it was.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

For a character built around a High Risk/High Reward playstyle, increasing the risk whilst decreasing the reward seems like utter nonsense from a balance perspective. I really hate this patch right now.

EDIT: Has anyone else's spacing with Nair been thrown off? Maybe I'm working with a controller I'm not comfortable with, but I could have sworn that its reach isn't as long as it was.

The range is shorter

 

[J_the_Man]

The range is shorter

So confirmed we have a character that now is not safe on shield AND has a harder time killing. OK. That makes ALL THE SENSE IN THE WORLD.

 

[David Viran]

So confirmed we have a character that now is not safe on shield AND has a harder time killing. OK. That makes ALL THE SENSE IN THE WORLD.

We are still definitely safe and maybe overall more safe with side b actually being safer.

 

[Blakexd9]

Apparently our grab lasts 4 frames less? That doesn't sound good.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

So confirmed we have a character that now is not safe on shield AND has a harder time killing. OK. That makes ALL THE SENSE IN THE WORLD.

We are still safe on shield lol stop panicking

Apparently our grab lasts 4 frames less? That doesn't sound good.

It's a stupid change, but it hardly matters

 

[Bowserboy3]

Does Back Throw into Flip Kick spike still work?

 

[apparently fuz]

Does Back Throw into Flip Kick spike still work?

It never worked, it was always a DI mixup.

 

[Bowserboy3]

It never worked, it was always a DI mixup.

Even so, are percents similar?

 

[apparently fuz]

Even so, are percents similar?

Haven't tested it yet, but I assume it'll be around the same percentages as before.

 

[Kira~]

How severe is the dthrow KB change? It doesn't seem any different, but I'm testing that in training mode. Same with nair, things just seem to combo later.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Bthrow DownB doesn't work anymore. Low percentage grab followup is probably gonna be Dthrow Fair now instead of Uair and trapping the landing.

Is it confirmed that Nair angle is still the same? Both Nair and Uair feel really awkward to me right now lol.
Also, I'm pretty sure upB does less damage. Is there any word on that?


Honestly the roughest thing this patch is the dThrow change :/

 

[David Viran]

Bthrow DownB doesn't work anymore. Low percentage grab followup is probably gonna be Dthrow Fair now instead of Uair and trapping the landing.

Is it confirmed that Nair angle is still the same? Both Nair and Uair feel really awkward to me right now lol.
Also, I'm pretty sure upB does less damage. Is there any word on that?


Honestly the roughest thing this patch is the dThrow change :/

There were no angle changes to any of zss's moves as far as I know. Up b does 16% like it always has. Also dthrow fair/Bair was always the optimal follow up at low percents pre patch as uair was unsafe on hit at low percents. I'm not sure how to feel about the dthrow changes rn. I need to test it more.

 

[apparently fuz]

What has changed about d-throw? It honestly seems the same.

 

[apparently fuz]

Also, is n-air now unsafe on shield?

 

[David Viran]

2% damage reduction, bkb went from 100 to 90, and kbg went from 25 to 65.

Nair is far from unsafe at -4 instead of -3

 

[Kira~]

What has changed about d-throw? It honestly seems the same.

Honestly it seems like the KB change made up for the 2% nerf, because it sends at almost the same distance imo.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

There were no angle changes to any of zss's moves as far as I know. Up b does 16% like it always has. Also dthrow fair/Bair was always the optimal follow up at low percents pre patch as uair was unsafe on hit at low percents. I'm not sure how to feel about the dthrow changes rn. I need to test it more.

ah thanks.

As for fair, you could short hop uair and trap a landing before, but eh, that was then.

 

[David Viran]

I mean I don't see why you can't still do that but I always felt fair/Bair was just better before anyway as you can still trap the landings.

 

[apparently fuz]

Honestly it seems like the KB change made up for the 2% nerf, because it sends at almost the same distance imo.

That's what I thought. We still have our combos, and our playstyles haven't differed vastly. I feel like that this nerf wasn't even that bad for us, especially compared to Sheik with shaved disjoints and projectile nerfs, or MK with u-air angle alterations.