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The Wofl House (Video Thread)

xX'Mitsurugi'Xx

Smash Ace
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May 19, 2008
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lol you guys are all horribad.

kirby cant beat wolf fair, i 3 stocked YBM with it and ybm beat chu in many MM's (i know it doesn't mean ybm is better)

i feel like NOJ on the GnW boards LOL
No one said it'an 80:20 impossible match-up. Chu beats my f-air alomost evrytime I tried it even in full retreat, all he did was PS>Grab, here I'll bring chudat here to give his take on the match up.
 

TheWildcard

Smash Champion
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lol if he grabs you out of fair you're doing it wrong. easy as that

retreat the fair and AC it and you wont get grabbed
 

xX'Mitsurugi'Xx

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^ Yeah! What he said!

Btw, the f-air hits one time (it doesn't have any soft hit boxes), if they PS it mid attack they CAN punish you, even if you are in full retreat. Test it, I'm telling you my brother who plays Fox, Mk and Kirby does it to me all the time. Btw, I wrote the F-air section in WBR guide to wolf, I think I'm doing it right. xD
 

tekkie

Smash Master
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In my professional opinion, I think kirby wrecks wolf, I've never had any problems out of him.
can you elaborate plz

i use both wolf and kirby and the only thing i would really worry about with kirby is wolf's fsmash as a punisher but that applies to like everyone
 

rvkevin

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 7, 2008
Messages
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So, how exactly does Kirby kill a camping Wolf? This is the only problem I see for Kirby. If his Bair is stale, its hard to land a KO move. Its alright for the first and second stock because you can easily kill them at zero with a fresh Bair, but it does not work in the long run. If you can't build damage with grabs and Utilt (which will be hard to do when they're camping), and finish with Bair, then its going to be hard to kill.
 

TheWildcard

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lol chu im gonna ask you this in all seriousness have you ever played a good wolf? who says hey im gonna outcamp you

and mitz you put to much what ifs on things if i powershield all of mk's moves id be able to **** him everytime. since you take everything so literal retreating fair is DIFFICULT to grab,
 

xX'Mitsurugi'Xx

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lol chu im gonna ask you this in all seriousness have you ever played a good wolf? who says hey im gonna outcamp you

and mitz you put to much what ifs on things if i powershield all of mk's moves id be able to **** him everytime. since you take everything so literal retreating fair is DIFFICULT to grab,
Well, I'm going by what ppl at higher lvls of play often do to me, a noob isn't going to PS that often, yes. I've found more often than not, good players tend to PS 30-40% of attacks. Just something to keep in mind.
 

TheWildcard

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yep to bad 40% isint close to 100%

thats like saying spamming lasers in melee with falco is bad because they can PS them back at you, but for some reason falcos still use them.... odd
 

rvkevin

Smash Lord
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Messages
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The ability to perfect shield is directly related to the attack and how predictably your opponent uses it. If the Wolf predictably uses Bair, it is easier to perfect shield. If they vary how high off the ground they initiate the attack and mix in empty short hops, then you're not going to perfect shield nearly as much.

Are people implying that Kirby can punish well spaced Bairs?
 

Seagull Joe

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Someone go ask Candy's opinion on this matchup. I think he has some knowledge on this to also contribute since we are pulling in Md/Va brawlers.

And by the way. How did a video thread turn into a matchup discussion against Kirby? Ish help!
 

Ishiey

Mother Wolf
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We're the Wolf boards, as if we ever stay on topic >_>

I think it's okay though. We were talking about Wolf/Kirby videos, and then just got a bit carried away. No issue, at least it's productive posting and all, and it's not like we're completely disregarding any recent videos.

:059:
 

Seagull Joe

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We're the Wolf boards, as if we ever stay on topic >_>

I think it's okay though. We were talking about Wolf/Kirby videos, and then just got a bit carried away. No issue, at least it's productive posting and all, and it's not like we're completely disregarding any recent videos.

:059:
I'm just joking around Ish :bee:
 

ArcPoint

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The only reason Chu doesn't have a problem with any Wolf players is because there's no Wolf main that's at his level. If Chu is PSing Mitsurugi's crap then it's mitsurugi's fault for using it when Chu's expecting it. Almost ANYTHING can be punished on PS, it's up to you to not get powershielded.
 

xX'Mitsurugi'Xx

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>_<

lol I'm so sick it's ridiculous.

Aaanyways, yeah, vids. Mitsurugi, it's been a while since you've posted here. Have anything new to show us? :)

:059:
I'm actually going to one of N.C.'s bigger tourneys this saturday, usually 40-60 ppl. There will be recording equipment there and since I always place like top 4, there should be some of me. I'll post the vids once they're up on youtube.

All questions and comments will be answered by:

xX'Mitsurugi'Xx

He will be speaking on my behalf. Thank you.
I'm telling you guys, me and Chu, played this match up, over and over and over again, hours and hours. Most of the high lvl match-up info was taken in to account with everything I've said. Another thing is, I think you guys think I got utterly destroyed by him or something, this is not the case, the matches were always close but he came out on top the majority of the time.

I know every kirby isn't a gimping machine like chu, but I'm speaking of the match up at the highest lvl of play, where PS isn't uncommon and any one mistake can cost you almost an entire stock, I know what most of you are thinking "Chu couldn't possibly man handle me like that." Well, MM him, get the vids, post them here, then you'll have concrete data to back up how you are saying the match will go down.

There are just several things that tip the match up in kirby's favor "Slightly" Imo, The ability to adapt to most cp's being one of kirby's main strengths, then the gonzo (one grab = 30%, not to shabby) it forces you to dodge, attack or land. It's your choice, but kirby is in close range which is bad for wolf, assuming you SDI out of the u-air he can b-air, jab or shieldgrab you, all depending on he reacts, thus it is in kirby's hands who lands the next hit, not wolf. Then theres the gimping as I mentioned before, most wolves think that kirby has a hard time gimping wolf, this is really not so, besides MK and a few other characters, you wont find an easier character to gimp wolf with. Thats just a few things, there are others, but you get my point.

I'm not saying the match-up is unwinnable, but Imo its either 60:40 or 55:45.
This pretty much concludes my argument of this subject, this is my opinion with professional exp on the match up, you guys are all entitled to your opinions as well.

Also, I feel that you guys really underate my abilities with wolf, you use terms such as "You made the mistakes." and "You must not be doing it right." But I'm still playing a D-tier character and I do fairly well with him considering, I may not attend larger tourneys anymore (which may soon change) but I am one of the best players in my state and climbing. I've gone toe to toe with many professional players and taken down some of them, give me a little credit at least. xD
 

rvkevin

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Messages
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Even if Kirby does perfect shield a well spaced Bair, can he punish and if so, what does he punish with (I’m getting the impression that you’re saying it is, but I’m not sold on it)? Even then, Wolf can perfect shield Kirby’s Bair and then punish with Usmash OoS, which is just as bad.

The only problem is when the Wolf camps during the entire match, it’s hard for Kirby to hit you with anything except his Bair…This leads to having trouble killing, since all of his kill moves are too slow to connect on a camping Wolf and Bair will be stale. This is exacerbated on longer stages such as FD and I would presume, Halberd. Not to say you’re not doing it right, but JJ has taken Wolf’s camping to an obscene level of gayness.
 

Seagull Joe

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I'm actually going to one of N.C.'s bigger tourneys this saturday, usually 40-60 ppl. There will be recording equipment there and since I always place like top 4, there should be some of me. I'll post the vids once they're up on youtube.


I'm telling you guys, me and Chu, played this match up, over and over and over again, hours and hours. Most of the high lvl match-up info was taken in to account with everything I've said. Another thing is, I think you guys think I got utterly destroyed by him or something, this is not the case, the matches were always close but he came out on top the majority of the time.

I know every kirby isn't a gimping machine like chu, but I'm speaking of the match up at the highest lvl of play, where PS isn't uncommon and any one mistake can cost you almost an entire stock, I know what most of you are thinking "Chu couldn't possibly man handle me like that." Well, MM him, get the vids, post them here, then you'll have concrete data to back up how you are saying the match will go down.

There are just several things that tip the match up in kirby's favor "Slightly" Imo, The ability to adapt to most cp's being one of kirby's main strengths, then the gonzo (one grab = 30%, not to shabby) it forces you to dodge, attack or land. It's your choice, but kirby is in close range which is bad for wolf, assuming you SDI out of the u-air he can b-air, jab or shieldgrab you, all depending on he reacts, thus it is in kirby's hands who lands the next hit, not wolf. Then theres the gimping as I mentioned before, most wolves think that kirby has a hard time gimping wolf, this is really not so, besides MK and a few other characters, you wont find an easier character to gimp wolf with. Thats just a few things, there are others, but you get my point.

I'm not saying the match-up is unwinnable, but Imo its either 60:40 or 55:45.
This pretty much concludes my argument of this subject, this is my opinion with professional exp on the match up, you guys are all entitled to your opinions as well.

Also, I feel that you guys really underate my abilities with wolf, you use terms such as "You made the mistakes." and "You must not be doing it right." But I'm still playing a D-tier character and I do fairly well with him considering, I may not attend larger tourneys anymore (which may soon change) but I am one of the best players in my state and climbing. I've gone toe to toe with many professional players and taken down some of them, give me a little credit at least. xD
Red text hurts my eyes.

And Chudat is the best Kirby. What is the point in comparing the best Kirby to any normal Wolf?

I'll get matches record sometime or another of me vs Chu or me vs Hat.

And I'm definitely not listening to Mitsurugi in this matchup.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18_KsBmdH2k
^
Your Wolf is laser campy. You also have like no offense. Put an aggressive Wolf vs a Kirby and you will see different results all together.
 

xX'Mitsurugi'Xx

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Red text hurts my eyes.

And Chudat is the best Kirby. What is the point in comparing the best Kirby to any normal Wolf?

I'll get matches record sometime or another of me vs Chu or me vs Hat.

And I'm definitely not listening to Mitsurugi in this matchup.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18_KsBmdH2k
^
Your Wolf is laser campy. You also have like no offense. Put an aggressive Wolf vs a Kirby and you will see different results all together.
Lol, your quite cocky arn't you? At any rate, he can CG the **** outta me, ofcourse I'm gonna camp..... xD I only have one tourney video vs chu and azen in teams from a long time ago (which is why I didn't post it) but here ya go.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97jKC8Y4cQU

It's not wise to make a skill based judgement call off of one match up, but you'll find that out at pound4.

Like I said, I'll have more recent videos for you to judge after this weekend, make your call then.
 

TheWildcard

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mitz you are pushy and have no clue how to appeal to the public, by chance are you under the age of 18? i mean thats when i thought i was awesome and had no regard for anyone but myself either that or your just an ******* could be both i guess.

Since i'm on the subject you have no clue how to fight pikachu, you dont need to camp him like that.

*waits for him to say yeah i do so i can reply with no you dont i can beat anther with wolf.

Edit: also i'm not sure if youve found this out but singles is alot different from doubles i mean if you're just finding this out then wow.
 

Seagull Joe

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Lol, your quite cocky arn't you? At any rate, he can CG the **** outta me, ofcourse I'm gonna camp..... xD I only have one tourney video vs chu and azen in teams from a long time ago (which is why I didn't post it) but here ya go.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97jKC8Y4cQU[/COLOR]
I'm not cocky. Wolf is bad in teams in general.

It's not wise to make a skill based judgement call off of one match up, but you'll find that out at pound4.
Your making a billion random assumptions about everything.

mitz you are pushy and have no clue how to appeal to the public, by chance are you under the age of 18? i mean thats when i thought i was awesome and had no regard for anyone but myself either that or your just an ******* could be both i guess.

Since i'm on the subject you have no clue how to fight pikachu, you dont need to camp him like that.

*waits for him to say yeah i do so i can reply with no you dont i can beat anther with wolf.

Edit: also i'm not sure if youve found this out but singles is alot different from doubles i mean if you're just finding this out then wow.
Omniswell knows whats up.
 

Ishiey

Mother Wolf
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I'm actually going to one of N.C.'s bigger tourneys this saturday, usually 40-60 ppl. There will be recording equipment there and since I always place like top 4, there should be some of me. I'll post the vids once they're up on youtube.

Also, I feel that you guys really underate my abilities with wolf, you use terms such as "You made the mistakes." and "You must not be doing it right." But I'm still playing a D-tier character and I do fairly well with him considering, I may not attend larger tourneys anymore (which may soon change) but I am one of the best players in my state and climbing. I've gone toe to toe with many professional players and taken down some of them, give me a little credit at least. xD
Sweet, let us know how that goes :) And Wolf is C tier now :D Even though he technically dropped... but whatever.

Also, thanks for not getting trolled.

sounds like a "i dont know what to say" card
*Agrees, but doesn't care since Mitsu and Chu would probably say the same things, seeing how they've played the match a ****load, durr*

Not going to quote Rvkevin, but he's staying on topic and not flaming. Thanks man.

Chudat is the best Kirby. What is the point in comparing the best Kirby to any normal Wolf?

I'll get matches record sometime or another of me vs Chu or me vs Hat
Seagull, I love you, but you cannot honestly tell me you think you're at the same level as Chudat. How would you getting vids instead of Misturugi getting them be any better then? And then you say you're not cocky >__> It's not a contest. Vids are vids, record and share what you can get :)

Youtube isn't working on the school comp btw, in case I'm missing something with the vids.

i also think mitz is wack and gives awful advice.
No trolling.

Except maybe a little bit in the social thread when you're drunk, everyone loves drunk posts.

Also, the next post you made. I love how all the cool people IRL are ****s on the boards :laugh: But really, relax. He's not being pushy, just providing his opinion on something that he clearly knows very well (at least, I'd assume so, if you train with Chu).



Guys, this is one of the problems with our board. Someone states their opinion, and if we don't agree it gets shot down hard. Stop it, really. I've talked to a few others and it's one of the reasons that we don't get many outside posters.

Mitsu has showed that he is credible. You can't say "No you're wrong", because he's not, it's a highly credibe opinion based off of solid experience. Has anyone else here played with a top, probably THE top Kirby? Trained with him a bunch, played him in tournament, are at his level, etc? If you have, that's great, share what you know. If not, ask questions if you see something that doesn't make sense to you, like Rvkevin is with the camping argument (which Mitsu has yet to answer). Stop shooting things down because you disagree for whatever reason.

Consider this a public warning, because I'm lazy and at school. Cut the crap please. Thanks <3

(Also, my head still feels like it's about to explode so this might not have made much sense, but whatever)

:059:
 

xX'Mitsurugi'Xx

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Thanks Ishiey, it's very apparent why you were made a mod, you do your job very well. Alot of the 'tude here makes me remember why I quite posting in the wolf boards. Look, I don't wanna get off on the wrong foot here, it's not like I said "Rewrite the whole match up, because I think it should be fought this way." I was giving my opinion, which I clearly stated in each post I made about the match up. I understand you guys may think that you are the god of wolf and thats fine by me, just try not to make it point to insult other ppls skill or me personally. (I do go to national tourneys and you will have to face me face to face.) xD

What ever it is I said that may have offended you, I'm sorry. I'm generally a nice guy in person, I've never fought anther, I'm 19/6'1"/220 lbs, my hobbies are gaming, lifting weights and the study mixed martial arts (Kempo, aikido and attack sambo) and yes, I know singles and doubles are different, it's just the only video of me vs chu I had on youtube, sorry. That was for omni, just so he's know exactly what kind of person I am, not trying to give you my life stats, but you were just a little off buddy. : )

Lets start again, Hi I'm mitsurugi, ummmm, so how about them hitboxes?


@ Rvkevin: Do you honestly want my opinion? It seems I've been deemed to dumbest wolf player here to everyone but ChuDat and Ish. xD
 

rvkevin

Smash Lord
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@ Rvkevin: Do you honestly want my opinion? It seems I've been deemed to dumbest wolf player here to everyone but ChuDat and Ish. xD
Why not? I play Kirby on the side and I have found that killing a camping Wolf is extremely difficult. This is my only concern for Kirby. If Wolf plays extremely safe, Kirby has trouble landing anything but Bairs.
 

tekkie

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@ Rvkevin: Do you honestly want my opinion? It seems I've been deemed to dumbest wolf player here to everyone but ChuDat and Ish. xD
i still <3.

and also next time you play chudat save the replay and youtube it.

also despite the dozens of wall of text here i dont feel i've actually learned anything about fighting kirby. stop bickering and tell me how to beat my own secondary plz.
 

ArcPoint

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NorCal, California.
Why not? I play Kirby on the side and I have found that killing a camping Wolf is extremely difficult. This is my only concern for Kirby. If Wolf plays extremely safe, Kirby has trouble landing anything but Bairs.
At that, Bairs get predictable if it's your only option, and PSing starts to happen. Which leaves Kirby in a bad spot.

Your opinion's legit Mits, I simply disagree with it (On the powershielding thing): If you're getting your Fair PS'd, it's your fault, "you made the mistake." If Kirby also PS's everything else Wolf has, Wolf's in a pretty bad spot. If Wolf PS's Kirby's crap, Kirby is also in a very bad spot. I think this balances out the matchup (in this particular area), and so, the deciding factor is in who is able to PS more crap, which in the case of most of us vs Chu would be Chu.

And you say the matchup isn't unwinnable...but Chu said Kirby WRECKS Wolf, that implies really hard. So... since you were speaking on Chu's behalf, is it (in his opinion) slightly in Kirby's favor or does Kirby still wreck Wolf? o.O
 

Seagull Joe

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Seagull, I love you, but you cannot honestly tell me you think you're at the same level as Chudat. How would you getting vids instead of Misturugi getting them be any better then? And then you say you're not cocky >__> It's not a contest. Vids are vids, record and share what you can get :)
Oh Ish. I didn't mean I'm at Chu's level. I just was saying I'd get some Kirby matches recorded sometime with Chu and Hat. Those two sentences I split up to say I'd get some knowledge myself more on the Kirby matchup.:(
 

Seagull Joe

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[
I'm 19/6'1"/220 lbs, my hobbies are gaming, lifting weights and the study mixed martial arts (Kempo, aikido and attack sambo)

I just got turned on. Cyber?

Lets start again, Hi I'm mitsurugi, ummmm, so how about them hitboxes?
And I'm sorry for sounding like an *** Mits.:( <3
I guess I come off as cocky on the boards. I'm not cocky! I just like stating my opinions.

http://xat.com/chat/room/61905922/
^
Also visit the Wolf chat sometime so we can talk more. Not just Mits. All of you visit it more. =/
 

rvkevin

Smash Lord
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At that, Bairs get predictable if it's your only option, and PSing starts to happen. Which leaves Kirby in a bad spot.
Not at all. When Wolf camps, it forces the fight to the air. Kirby's best aerial in terms of range, start up, and poking/spacing/zoning is his Bair. Wolf is going to try to horizontally space (And since he has the faster aerial speed, he can ensure he stays at least on a diagonal with Kirby), until he reaches the edge of the stage. Until then, Kirby's Uair, Fair, and Dair are useless. When Wolf tries to crossover (either above or below Kirby), I'm pretty sure Kirby's best option is Bair in all situations...If Wolf is diagonally above Kirby, Shine beats Uair on reaction, Bair beats Hammer (or avoid it if they see the start up), Fair, Uair,etc. If Wolf is below Kirby, Uair and Jumpshine beat Dair, Usmash OoS is a beast, but a retreating Bair on shield is relatively safe...In either case, Kirby's Bair helps offset the range of Wolf's Bair and Shine. Fair can be a good poke on shield or to punish but its not going to do much in the big scheme of things and has no KO power.

When JJ camps, there's two methods to punish, wait until he lands, or try to attack him in the air...When using Kirby, I choose the latter. As a result, I overuse Bair (because of what was said before) and therefore have trouble killing. I don't see how Kirby can punish Wolf's landing with anything worthwhile. Dsmash, Fsmash, and Usmash have too much start up and are easily avoided, Tilts get beat by Bair, Shield is good but Kirby can't punish retreating spaced Bairs.

Keep in mind this is mostly only a concern on FD where Wolf has plenty of room to run. On smaller stages, Kirby's grab game comes into play more, which refreshes Bair. And even if Kirby's Bair was predictable, it would not be able to be perfect shielded, since the given scenario is mostly air to air combat. If you want to compete with Kirby's grab game, be my guest. Also, platforms change some of this, considering they limit Wolf's aerial movement and Kirby can shark underneath them with Uair and Usmash. This is mostly for Tekkie since he wanted someone to actually write about the match up. So, Wolf beats Kirby...
 

TheWildcard

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i'm disappointed in you guys, if it wasent for me trolling JJ he would of never stop spamming bairs. *waits for jj to disagree <3

and i've 3 stocked ybm's kirby he beat chu in the ditto and is argue ably the 2nd best, i wanna play chu with wolf so he can show me the skill difference between the two.

mitz i flame and troll and if a mod wants to ban me let him, i dont hate you, stop riding the mod, a simple thank you would of worked not a paragraph about how kool he is.


i can say the only wolf i really dont care for is some ec wolf who acts likes he awesome because hes 12.
at ishey i am very nice and kool in person im glad you noticed :)
 

Xzax Kasrani

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i'm disappointed in you guys, if it wasent for me trolling JJ he would of never stop spamming bairs. *waits for jj to disagree <3

and i've 3 stocked ybm's kirby he beat chu in the ditto and is argue ably the 2nd best, i wanna play chu with wolf so he can show me the skill difference between the two.

mitz i flame and troll and if a mod wants to ban me let him, i dont hate you, stop riding the mod, a simple thank you would of worked not a paragraph about how kool he is.


i can say the only wolf i really dont care for is some ec wolf who acts likes he awesome because hes 12.
at ishey i am very nice and kool in person im glad you noticed :)
You better not be talking about me
 

castorpollux

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Seagull Joe

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i'm disappointed in you guys, if it wasent for me trolling JJ he would of never stop spamming bairs. *waits for jj to disagree <3

and i've 3 stocked ybm's kirby he beat chu in the ditto and is argue ably the 2nd best, i wanna play chu with wolf so he can show me the skill difference between the two.

mitz i flame and troll and if a mod wants to ban me let him, i dont hate you, stop riding the mod, a simple thank you would of worked not a paragraph about how kool he is.


i can say the only wolf i really dont care for is some ec wolf who acts likes he awesome because hes 12.
at ishey i am very nice and kool in person im glad you noticed :)
I wanted to go to Lolis this weekend Omniswell so I could show you my Wolf in person and Wolf ditto you. Tko and Shado from Md/Va went. Wish I didn't have work. =/.
 

Ishiey

Mother Wolf
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i'm disappointed in you guys, if it wasent for me trolling JJ he would of never stop spamming bairs. *waits for jj to disagree <3

and i've 3 stocked ybm's kirby he beat chu in the ditto and is argue ably the 2nd best, i wanna play chu with wolf so he can show me the skill difference between the two.

mitz i flame and troll and if a mod wants to ban me let him, i dont hate you, stop riding the mod, a simple thank you would of worked not a paragraph about how kool he is.


i can say the only wolf i really dont care for is some ec wolf who acts likes he awesome because hes 12.
at ishey i am very nice and kool in person im glad you noticed :)
This is exactly why I needed to stop you Omniswell, we can't have any more people spreading this video x_x lol

On-topic: Omniswell needs to make more drunk posts, and Kirby is really easy to punish imo. Anytime he hits your shield you can pretty much get a grab or fsmash.

:059:
 
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