Social The WFTGD: How About Some Deep Breathing?

[Byxis]

I feel like WFT's Deep Breathing technique draws some parallels to Lucas' Offense Up in Project M as a command buff. You think Sakurai has been studying Project M and taking things that he likes from it into the new game?

 

[BJN39]

I feel like WFT's Deep Breathing technique draws some parallels to Lucas' Offense Up in Project M as a command buff. You think Sakurai has been studying Project M and taking things that he likes from it into the new game?

I don't think Sakurai is taking from P:M. At least, he certainly wouldn't admit it. > , >

I admit there have been some interesting coincidences though, such as what you mention, and what seems to be shell armor on Bowser's crouch...

I am curious as to the boundaries of deep breathing. He seems to say that ALL of her moves get stronger when it is used. In this case, including sun salutation.

So I wonder, does that mean literally ALL moves get powered up? Like, even her throws? This also brings up the possibility that her moveset will be subpar at kill power to make using deep breathing more necessary. I hope this isn't entirely the case. But the idea of kill throws or Deep breathing boost specific combos sounds really cool IMO.

 

[Big-Cat]

An interesting thing to wonder about is if Deep Breathing can be stacked.

 

[IsmaR]

Rename the title [Deep Breathing intensifies] imo

 

[Byxis]

I don't think Sakurai is taking from P:M. At least, he certainly wouldn't admit it. > , >

I admit there have been some interesting coincidences though, such as what you mention, and what seems to be shell armor on Bowser's crouch...

I am curious as to the boundaries of deep breathing. He seems to say that ALL of her moves get stronger when it is used. In this case, including sun salutation.

So I wonder, does that mean literally ALL moves get powered up? Like, even her throws? This also brings up the possibility that her moveset will be subpar at kill power to make using deep breathing more necessary. I hope this isn't entirely the case. But the idea of kill throws or Deep breathing boost specific combos sounds really cool IMO.

Yeah. I've noticed that Zero Suit Samus has a better recovery and isn't as easy to gimp anymore(As with all tether recoveries in Project M). Charizard is on his own now with a totally revamped and powered up moveset. Sonic's down air brings foes down with him like in Project M. Just lots of things have been tying in with Project M lately that I've been seeing...


I would hope that you can do two Deep Breathings before you max out WFT's attacks. Maybe Deep Breathing also prevents stale move negation, keeping all her kill moves at crisp and fresh knockback and percents.

 

[ぱみゅ]

Rename the title [Deep Breathing intensifies] imo

I was actually waiting for someone to come up with a good name (since I can't seem to think of one).

Thanks!



And at least in Brawl, ZSS is NOT easy to gimp.

 

[Byxis]

How so? Isn't her Up B a terrible tether recovery? Or did you mean her Down B?

 

[IsmaR]

I actually think she'll still be sorta easy to gimp. Depends on if her side tether was changed.

How so? Isn't her Up B a terrible tether recovery? Or did you mean her Down B?

It was changed to basically be Cammy's Spiral Arrow Cannon Spike

 

[Byxis]

I actually think she'll still be sorta easy to gimp. Depends on if her side tether was changed.


It was changed to basically be Cammy's Spiral Arrow Cannon Spike

I mean purely from Brawl.

 

[ぱみゅ]

Have you ever watched Salem playing?
Zero Suit Samus has a Plasma Whip (side), a Plasma Wire (up) and a Flip (down) to create ways into the stage.
She can grab the ledge, add pressure, mix her options and look for openings. If a ZSS player is smart enough, gimps just won't come easily.

 

[IsmaR]

I was just gonna say footstooling exists. With the flip jump it's hella easy.

 

[Byxis]

Hmmm. I guess.


How long do you think Deep Breathing's buffs last for?

 

[IsmaR]

At worst, probably less than 10 seconds, or until you get hit.

At best, until you get KO'd or knocked down.

 

[ぱみゅ]

A Power-up/Building character?
That would be an AWESOME concept and less of a Double Edge like Lucario is.
The only other experience I have with a "build" character is bad, though (Blazblue's Tsubaki Yayoi), I hope Trainer don't do as bad as her did if she turns out to be that kind of character.


Now, I think the worst case would be for it to last until you throw an attack. Just imagine that you managed to build a Deep Breath, just for your opponent to pressure you and now you've pushed to use it on a jab. That would be sad.

 

[Byxis]

I just hope Deep Breathings keeps her moves fresh from Stale move stagnation so she won't have to rely on Sun Salutations.

 

[Big-Cat]

A Power-up/Building character?
That would be an AWESOME concept and less of a Double Edge like Lucario is.
The only other experience I have with a "build" character is bad, though (Blazblue's Tsubaki Yayoi), I hope Trainer don't do as bad as her did if she turns out to be that kind of character.

Now, I think the worst case would be for it to last until you throw an attack. Just imagine that you managed to build a Deep Breath, just for your opponent to pressure you and now you've pushed to use it on a jab. That would be sad.

There's also Order Sol (Guilty Gear), Chin Gentsai(King of Fighters), and Shun Di(Virtua Fighter). I think Wii Fit Trainer should be fine as it appears she has an extremely solid set of normals.

 

[BJN39]

Now, I think the worst case would be for it to last until you throw an attack. Just imagine that you managed to build a Deep Breath, just for your opponent to pressure you and now you've pushed to use it on a jab. That would be sad.

It should work for more than one move. Because when he introduced SS during the scene when she's fighting Link, she uses deep breathing, then dash attack, then Sun Salutation. So If it didn't work for more than one move, then that was a bad example of "Use deep breathing to power up, and finish them with a sun salutation!"

I hope it's not time limited, I hope it's just until you die, or at least, after a long time.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

Did anyone else catch her forward throw?

She acts like the opponent is a volleyball, it's pretty funny.

 

[BJN39]

Reposting this here.

So I just made an interesting connection.

If you look at the footage of Sun Salutation and Deep Breathing, you can see that little swirl of lines in pink and blue around her when she successfully uses DB or launches a full charge SS.

I realized, that swirl is the same type of animation used when you get healed when eating something. You can see it during the WiiU stages preview at Halberd where Marth eats one of Diddy's peanuts.

Now, that animation appearing for Deep breathing makes sense, indicating that she's been "powered up" But considering the same animation is used after launching a full charged Sun Salutation, do you suppose it will have a hidden effect? Personally, I hope so.

Any thoughts, anyone?

 

[Zage]

I'm gonna say that its just an extra effect to show that the Wii Fit Trainer is becoming more healthy the more she "exercises". Just for flair, probably doesn't have any extra effect.

 

[CatRaccoonBL]

So, I like the wii fit trainer. :D

She seems like a very fun character to use. I can't decide which wii fit trainer I like better though.

I also like the music they introduced so far. <3

 

[B!ggad]

At worst, probably less than 10 seconds, or until you get hit.

At best, until you get KO'd or knocked down.

10 seconds is a long time, I'd say that's actually realistic.

And everyone hoping for the duration to be a whole stock long are super optimistic if you ask me, considering it takes like 1-2 seconds to buff yourself.

There'd be no reason to not just breath deeply after respawning with your invincibility frames, and ... that's it. Laughable design.

 

[Yoichi Hiruma]

I will say though, you can see the Male Wii Fit Trainer FAIL at Deep Breathing in one of the montages. So it looks like you have to be accurate with the time with the pink circles.

 

[BJN39]

10 seconds is a long time, I'd say that's actually realistic.

And everyone hoping for the duration to be a whole stock long are super optimistic if you ask me, considering it takes like 1-2 seconds to buff yourself.

There'd be no reason to not just breath deeply after respawning with your invincibility frames, and ... that's it. Laughable design.

I will say though, you can see the Male Wii Fit Trainer FAIL at Deep Breathing in one of the montages. So it looks like you have to be accurate with the time with the pink circles.

Yeah, I was studying the move yesterday, and realized:

1. Obviously, you must need to input to actually successfully get deep breathing bonus. As seen when the male WFT failed once to get it.

2. It seems to be faster to use sometimes. (Varying from 4 seconds, to 2 seconds to use.) I have no idea why, honestly... There's no linking reason among the three clips.

EDIT: So a couple minutes after posting this, I realized, maybe it has to do with cutomize-able specials!
- Faster, but less of a power up. VS - Slower, but more power. It makes sense at least. That would also explain the different animations at the ends of the faster and slower ones.

(with that in mind, that may explain no. 3.)
3. There seems to be some sort of degree of bonus. As in the first deep breathing scene, she looked very powered animation wise. While when she used it in the scene with link, she looked less "powered up". (Just look for yourself at the WFT preview, the light effects are the same, but in one she leans back more, and sets her legs together. While in the other with Link, she merely opens her arms, and her legs are not set together.) My guesses are that it's timing based for the best reward, or that it can be made to go faster, but with less reward so you can use it in the heat of battle.

I'll also note that the opacity of her two different charges only somewhat visually overlap. AKA, if you charge SS first, and then charge DB, you will blink white with little gold sparks. This might get changed later, just a little thing I noticed.

Oh yeah, and it can be used in the air as seen in the "about online" section, but it entirely stops ALL aerial movement.

Also, @ B!ggad ; you do make a valid point about using the respawn invincibility to recharge for a whole stock of bonus, maybe it is merely a time limit. I'm still hoping it's nice and long if so.

 

[Greda]

Yeah, I was studying the move yesterday, and realized:

1. Obviously, you must need to input to actually successfully get deep breathing bonus. As seen when the male WFT failed once to get it.

2. It seems to be faster to use sometimes. (Varying from 4 seconds, to 2 seconds to use.) I have no idea why, honestly... There's no linking reason among the three clips.

EDIT: So a couple minutes after posting this, I realized, maybe it has to do with cutomize-able specials!
- Faster, but less of a power up. VS - Slower, but more power. It makes sense at least. That would also explain the different animations at the ends of the faster and slower ones.

(with that in mind, that may explain no. 3.)
3. There seems to be some sort of degree of bonus. As in the first deep breathing scene, she looked very powered animation wise. While when she used it in the scene with link, she looked less "powered up". (Just look for yourself at the WFT preview, the light effects are the same, but in one she leans back more, and sets her legs together. While in the other with Link, she merely opens her arms, and her legs are not set together.) My guesses are that it's timing based for the best reward, or that it can be made to go faster, but with less reward so you can use it in the heat of battle.

I'll also note that the opacity of her two different charges only somewhat visually overlap. AKA, if you charge SS first, and then charge DB, you will blink white with little gold sparks. This might get changed later, just a little thing I noticed.

Oh yeah, and it can be used in the air as seen in the "about online" section, but it entirely stops ALL aerial movement.

Also, @ B!ggad ; you do make a valid point about using the respawn invincibility to recharge for a whole stock of bonus, maybe it is merely a time limit. I'm still hoping it's nice and long if so.

HELLO EVERYONE I'M NEW SO SORRY IF I MESS UP ON RANDOM STUFF. Okay, so I was watching the direct and I realized why the first scene's Deep Breathing was slower than the second. The whole first scene was actually slowed down. Pay attention to the ashes on the first scene, while WFT is using Deep Breathing, it actually goes slower. After she is finished, it goes normal speed again. Anyone else see this?

 

[BJN39]

HELLO EVERYONE I'M NEW SO SORRY IF I MESS UP ON RANDOM STUFF. Okay, so I was watching the direct and I realized why the first scene's Deep Breathing was slower than the second. The whole first scene was actually slowed down. Pay attention to the ashes on the first scene, while WFT is using Deep Breathing, it actually goes slower. After she is finished, it goes normal speed again. Anyone else see this?

I try to be very thorough when I look over something, and I completely missed this. Thank you for putting for that info out there. The more we know the better. And this basically clears up number 2 on my previous post.

 

[Greda]

10 seconds is a long time, I'd say that's actually realistic.

And everyone hoping for the duration to be a whole stock long are super optimistic if you ask me, considering it takes like 1-2 seconds to buff yourself.

There'd be no reason to not just breath deeply after respawning with your invincibility frames, and ... that's it. Laughable design.

OHYES while we are on the topic of Deep Breathing, I honestly don't think this would cause a problem. Sure, you would just use Deep Breathing under your invincibility frame, but seriously, no matter how they make it, why not?

It doesn't matter if it's time based or not, let's take another look at the direct. When they were representing the SS and DB duo, WFT actually used a move before SS, totaling to two, and you can see after this that the effect wore off.

Now, not including Custom Move Sets, this means that DB takes 1-2 Seconds to activate, and only lasts for two hits, and this is proven when @ BJN39 said, "So If it didn't work for more than one move, then that was a bad example of 'Use deep breathing to power up, and finish them with a sun salutation!'" (sorry i am bad at quotes and stuff please dont hurt me).

So let's just say you come into battle with your Invincibility Frames, and use Deep Breathing (which should take about 1-2 seconds), and if it lasted the whole stock, it wouldn't be a problem because it actually lasts two hits. Sorry if I was unclear on this.

EDDDITTT:

Okay, so I also thought of the possibility of it being to other things.

1. Unlimited Moves/Limited Time: Basically what it says. This would seem kind of bad, though, cause when I timed it whenever they were doing the SS and DB duo, it only lasted 2-3 seconds for attacks. WFT might barely get any hits through that.

2. Limited Moves/Limited Time: This would clear up #1 cause it might just be -- Seconds and 2 Hits. But this would be also bad, cause everyone would just run away from WFT until it wears off. I mean, I think that's legit reason enough to make it Unlimited Time for the stock.

Also, it would be impossible to disprove #2 through the first scene because of the slow-down of it.


Edit #22:

3. There seems to be some sort of degree of bonus. As in the first deep breathing scene, she looked very powered animation wise. While when she used it in the scene with link, she looked less "powered up". (Just look for yourself at the WFT preview, the light effects are the same, but in one she leans back more, and sets her legs together. While in the other with Link, she merely opens her arms, and her legs are not set together.) My guesses are that it's timing based for the best reward, or that it can be made to go faster, but with less reward so you can use it in the heat of battle.

I'll also note that the opacity of her two different charges only somewhat visually overlap. AKA, if you charge SS first, and then charge DB, you will blink white with little gold sparks. This might get changed later, just a little thing I noticed.

I thought about this for a while. I think the degree of bonus is the same excluding Custom Move Sets. I think what made it seem this way was the fact that the DB on the first scene was slowed down and full screen.

When you compare the two scenes on the way it looks, it doesn't seem different at all. This may be me looking at it this way, but I just wanted to throw it out there.

I'm not a master at analyzing things anywho, and you seem to do a better job than me, I didn't even notice you could use it in midair.

Also, YESSS WE CAN USE IT IN AIR GOD LISTENED TO MY WISH KTHNXBYE. Okay sorry for wall of text.

 

[ぱみゅ]

That's..... an interesting way to get into the community!
Welcome aboard!

 

[B!ggad]

.

Haha that's great

I would be fine with "unlimited time but limited moves", didn't even think of that possibility. Intuitively I'd still say I'd prefer "limited time/unlimited moves", I know there's no way to know which one would work out better in practice in a developed metagame, but there won't be a lack of opportunites to use use Deep Breathing that's for sure.

Essentially everytime you land a hit at high enough percents (like 50% by the looks of it), you will be able to choose to buff yourself, and in a lot of cases you won't even have to make a compromise in that you're giving up the favorable position, because immediatly chasing your opponent offstage or whatever is rarely the smartest option.

Now I'm making assumptions based on the other games, though. It just depends on so many things we don't know yet. For me it comes down to how easy it's gonna be to camp or stall against WFT, or in this game in general. Considering how easy it will be to use this move, having it stay active for no matter how long it takes you to get a certain amount of hits, only to get those hits and use it again ... sounds so bland compared to a possible dynamic cat and mouse game, where a buffed WFT scares opponents away and the other way around.


Also I rewatched the Deep Breathing scene that's supposedly slowed down, and I dont't see it. MAYBE it's a TINY bit slower (well, it's easy to imagine that now) but not nearly slow enough to correlate with how fast the move actually is in the next scene. I'd be happy to be proven wrong, though.

 

[Greda]

That's..... an interesting way to get into the community!
Welcome aboard!

SHOOT DID I DO SOMETHING WRONG IM SORRY.

Haha that's great

I would be fine with "unlimited time but limited moves", didn't even think of that possibility. Intuitively I'd still say I'd prefer "limited time/unlimited moves", I know there's no way to know which one would work out better in practice in a developed metagame, but there won't be a lack of opportunites to use use Deep Breathing that's for sure.

Essentially everytime you land a hit at high enough percents (like 50% by the looks of it), you will be able to choose to buff yourself, and in a lot of cases you won't even have to make a compromise in that you're giving up the favorable position, because immediatly chasing your opponent offstage or whatever is rarely the smartest option.

Now I'm making assumptions based on the other games, though. It just depends on so many things we don't know yet. For me it comes down to how easy it's gonna be to camp or stall against WFT, or in this game in general. Considering how easy it will be to use this move, having it stay active for no matter how long it takes you to get a certain amount of hits, only to get those hits and use it again ... sounds so bland compared to a possible dynamic cat and mouse game, where a buffed WFT scares opponents away and the other way around.


Also I rewatched the Deep Breathing scene that's supposedly slowed down, and I dont't see it. MAYBE it's a TINY bit slower (well, it's easy to imagine that now) but not nearly slow enough to correlate with how fast the move actually is in the next scene. I'd be happy to be proven wrong, though.

I see where you are getting at, and you are right, yes, it would be a bit bland.

Everything from what I have said is pure speculation and I don't even have much or anything to back it up, so this is probably not going to happen.

Still I am interested in how it works, though. Seems quite interesting. Also, for the first scene, I just look at the ashes for the background. Hope it helps.

 

[BJN39]

SHOOT DID I DO SOMETHING WRONG IM SORRY.

I don't think so.
No need for an apology either. :D

Also, I see what you meant about the ashes slowing in the first DB clip. It seems easier to see in the bottom right corner.

- - -

Okay, I'm more sure than ever that the move has varying degrees of power reward depending on your timing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdTntmHZyJs

First, see clip one of Deep Breathing (11 seconds in.) Look closely at where the gray line is relative to the red circle right before when she "glows" (By glows, I mean the animation for successfully using the move where she flashes yellow.) (Basically the line is perfectly touching the red circle) Also, look at how she moves; She bends back, brings her arms out (Unevenly, I might add.) and her legs are together.

Second, look at the clip of her using DB after knocking Link down. (a little after 29 seconds in.) Again, look closely (and pause/rewind if needed.) and find where the line is relative to the red circle. In THIS one, the instant before she "glows". It's in fact, a small distance from the red circle. (Unlike clip one, where it touched.) Now notice how she acts during the "glowing" She does NOT bend back, and her legs do not touch. (She does bring her arms out, but that's aside form the point.)

See what I'm saying? When the gray line was touching the red circle, her animation looked "more power filling" than when the gray line was a bit of a distance away.

 

[Greda]

View attachment 12328

I don't think so.
No need for an apology either. :D

Also, I see what you meant about the ashes slowing in the first DB clip. It seems easier to see in the bottom right corner.

- - -

Okay, I'm more sure than ever that the move has varying degrees of power reward depending on your timing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdTntmHZyJs

First, see clip one of Deep Breathing (11 seconds in.) Look closely at where the gray line is relative to the red circle right before when she "glows" (By glows, I mean the animation for successfully using the move where she flashes yellow.) (Basically the line is perfectly touching the red circle) Also, look at how she moves; She bends back, brings her arms out (Unevenly, I might add.) and her legs are together.

Second, look at the clip of her using DB after knocking Link down. (a little after 29 seconds in.) Again, look closely (and pause/rewind if needed.) and find where the line is relative to the red circle. In THIS one, the instant before she "glows". It's in fact, a small distance from the red circle. (Unlike clip one, where it touched.) Now notice how she acts during the "glowing" She does NOT bend back, and her legs do not touch. (She does bring her arms out, but that's aside form the point.)

See what I'm saying? When the gray line was touching the red circle, her animation looked "more power filling" than when the gray line was a bit of a distance away.

You are quite right, I took screenshots of it on my phone if anyone missed it. Sorry for the late response, had trouble with the pictures. Also, the quality is bad on the pictures, but you can see the general point of them.

This also throws off my 1 DB = 2 Hits. It might be more than 2 Hits, Unlimited, or even Time Based, as I said before, or, heck, something else. You also mentioned the custom move sets, so maybe it might be that, but I'm just jumping to conclusions here. I wonder what the Custom DB would be though, also Custom SS, I'm very curious now. These are just my guesses on how DB would be like, but we will see later.

Also sorry I can't just post it HERE, cause I would have to double post for that, so I uploaded them on Imgur if that is alright...?
http://i.imgur.com/E2P4jrP.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/dflhJGn.jpg

EDIT:

Oh, yeah, wanted to bring this up for a while now. Anyone know what they will put up for the new outfits? We already got Male WFT confirmed, but I wonder if the Wii U version of Female/Male WFT will come in, or just some color changes.

EDIT#3282489:

You said that the 2nd scenes DB was weaker. I just want to throw out there that the 2nd Scenes DB lasted 2-3 seconds with of course, 2 hits, but the 1st Scenes lasted longer. This doesn't really back up any of my claims, but it's just some information, I don't know if this will be of use.

EDIT #I NEED TO STOP WITH EDITS:

I just read what you said again, and you said that the gray line was a bit of a distance away from DB. Does this mean we can be a bit too early, but what if we are a bit too late? Thoughts?

EDIT #I BET EVERYONE IS GOING TO HATE ME FOR EDITS:

I didn't want to edit once more, but this was kind of a new piece of information about DB worth sharing. The DB example is "fake," you were right, it WAS a bad example. The unfinished DB actually lasted less than 2 seconds and for only one hit. Since I'm pretty sure Sakurai isn't dumb enough to make DB last for less than 2 seconds, I'm guessing it's unlimited time, and I can have the first scene "back me up" on this, sort of. First, for pictures.

http://i.imgur.com/n2SnqoB.png << WFT already used one move and it wore off, the flashing effect is gone
http://i.imgur.com/OaVxodS.png << You can see Link falling here like he is damaged... but Magically...
http://i.imgur.com/1Qe46Vd.png << The purple flashing effect is back, randomly!
http://i.imgur.com/PuQhNXt.png << And link isn't falling like he is in some sort of damage!

Took me a while to catch this, I might stop editing now.

 

[A Lucky Person]

Any Souls fans here?

This is what I first thought of when I saw the Direct, so I made this!

 

[Byxis]

Lets be real...

Is it me or did they make the male Wii Fit Trainer look lame compared to his female counterpart when he failed Deep Breathing?

 

[BBG|Scott-Spain]

I really like how this character straddles the line between zoning and poking. Very versatile.

 

[OctiVick]

I am getting more exited for Wii Fit Trailer after the direct ^^. I think her new specials are pretty good even though I think sun salutation is pretty meh.

The music in her part of the direct was pretty nice to listen to but I don't know the name of it.

 

[8-peacock-8]

Spoiler

 

[BBG|Scott-Spain]

Am I the only one that has realized how bad their recovery is? They only have Up-B. At least their jump height is pretty high.

 

[BJN39]

Am I the only one that has realized how bad their recovery is? They only have Up-B. At least their jump height is pretty high.

Well, her side B can actually air stall at least once, and you're at the same time launching a "lethal" projectile at your ledge guarder.

Her jumps are decent and so is her air mobility, and the hula hoops will likely act as hit-boxes while she's rising and they will fly up and off of her and act as temporary projectiles above her. It also appears they can go slightly in the direction of your movement, letting you toss them at your ledge guarder.

Also, if it matters at all, her double hit aerial (NAir) was shown with very quick IASA in one clip a while ago, and it has unique diagonal coverage.

Even with those things in mind, she'll likely will still have some trouble recovering. As her options are still not very diverse. But she definitely has good enough recovery capabilities.

 

[The Real Gamer]

I really like how this character straddles the line between zoning and poking. Very versatile.

Her hitboxes look pretty ridiculous. She also seems to have great mobility as well as kill potential thanks to Deep Breathing.

I can tell she's gonna be a great all around character. Can't wait to start kicking ass with her.