The usefulness of playing against a Level 9 computer

[theONEjanitor]

I know about 90 percent of you are going to enter this thread just ready to post:

Omg dont train against a level 9 comp noob

But I have found that it has a couple of uses.
Note: you should only consider this as an option when there is absolutely no one to play, as playing against a human will always be the best option.
First and foremost, do not play the computer like you would a human, this is what develops the "bad habits" that everyone warns you about. Don't fight the computer to "win". If you did that, you'd find that its terribly easy after awhile, and you won't be helping yourself.
And do not fight the level 9 computer to
a. learn advanced techniques like SHFFLing, wavedashing, etc. Master these techniques in training mode or against a Level 1 computer.
b. practice these techniques. again, use training mode or a level 1. once you're pretty comfortable doing them...then try this idea

Fight the computer for the following:


Comboing: The level 9 computer is pretty good at letting you know a basis for what works at combos. They have basically perfect reflexes, so if there is space to attack in between your combo, they very often will do it. Note: the computer uses DI pretty nooby, so take this into account, you should still be in the mindset of 'what could I do if they use DI this way' when you're trying out combos.

Tech Chasing/capitalizing on missed techs: The computer techs sometimes, and they miss techs all the time, so you can use that as an opportunity to find out things to do in either situation

Tech Skill: One problem that I'm sure many people starting out encounter is that, even after they're pretty good at SHFFLing, wavedashing, and everything else, once they play against a real human, they all but lose their tech skill. They either have poor reflexes or they get frustrated easily and start playing like a caveman. Again, do not play the computer "to win". Just defend yourself and get into the habit of using your techniques, even when under constant pressure. One skill that fighting the computer helps you get used to using is DI. The computer likes to get you into gay combos due to their crazy reflexes. Using DI is a good way to get out of it. and remember, do not do it because it helps you win. do it to get in the habit of using DI.

so i mean, obviously its not the best choice. playing a human is clearly the best option.
but is it completely useless? I think not.

You just have to go about it, with the right mindstate.

 

[Tera253]

*sniff* Tera's touched.
TEra hyas to do that anyway, since ther's no one to play nowadays wth work and finals and all...
~Tera253~

 

[go2chutch]

id say your right there are some uses, and id agree with almost everything you said in terms of what it shouldnt be used for but ive met some people who are overall ok smashers who just practice against level 9s and show up to a tourney every month

 

[Aldwyn McCloud]

I train a lot using CPs. Training with CPs doesn't necessarely imply falling into bad habits. I'm not a noob, I'm one of the best Italians, here's a video of me:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=BSPH0do__h0

training using CP is good because it allows the players to improve technically in short time, as otherwise they'd have to wait every time for a human opponent to develop something that actually depends mostly on themselves (which sounds a bit stupid to me).

Yeah, training with CPs is risky. You can easily fall into bad habits because, for example, CPs always recover the same way. As already pointed out while playing with CPs your goal mustn't be winning and you should focus only on yourselves instead than on the CP, while on the other hand in human VS human fights in order to predict your opponent the best choice is watching the opponent's moves.

Also remember that CPs are perfect controllers. Training against them might end up in you developing insane DI and comboing skills. For example, if a CP has got the possibility to get out from a combo by using an attack, it will do it as soon as possible, even faster than human players.

 

[Thino]

as everyone mentioned here, the main advantage of CP is their crazy reflexes to get out of your combos. so if a combo works on a computer , you're 90% sure it will works on a human that doesnt DI

 

[Tonb3rry]

The thing with lvl.9 CPUs is that they actually does DI.
The lame thing is that they always are DI-ing upwards, so they'll die as late as possible.
Which makes it really easy to combo them.

I'd say, play against lvl.3 CPUs, they DI to the left and right in most throws, and in some attacks. They also don't use that irritating jab-spamming all the time. I promise you, that will help your techniqual skills a lot. You can also practice chain throws, yay...

 

[Rikana]

I have friends to play with, but I don't really get to 1v1 until my cousin comes over, and he's not all that good himself.. so I just play with a level 9 computer a bit each time.

Everyone says that its stupid to play against a level 9, yeah I agree with that but also, that's the only option left at the time you don't have anyone to play with. "playing" and "practising" are two different things. I "play" not "practise" so I don't bother with level 1s.

I main falco and falcon. I learned all I need by playing level 9s. After I learned everything, I eventually keep inviting my friends over to gain experience from fighting friends. Guess what? It helps.

I can do everything what pros probably do with falco. (ex. SHL, pillar, shine combos, laser out of shine then fastfall and repeat, infinite firefox stall, instant Bair out of shine, fluent wavelands, etc) and I basically owe it to level 9 computers more so than I do to humans. Its just now I face humans more often because I already learned my basics and no longer need to play against level 9s.

 

[Anther]

I definitely got most of my basic tech skill and teh mindgames from comps XD.
I learned to wavedash and shffl against lvl 9 comps. The other ones are way too boring for me =p.
Wavedashing was simply getting it to the point that I could do it 99% of the time, even though all I was doing was wding back until the comp attacked, and then shffling an attack at them. Did the shffling so that ... yeah.. don't want to post anymore XD...

Dunno, as long as when you're playing the game you should be trying to learn something new, especially if you're facing comps. Do weird things to increase your options for when you want to decimate others, invent new combos... blah blah.. blah.

 

[DoctaMalik]

hmm if i have no one to play/train with i like practicing against a lvl 5-7 comp mostly because they don't power shield every single one of my SHLs. also the comp reaction time isnt as insane.. i dont like how lvl 9's grab me everytime i SWD w/ samus

 

[MookieRah]

I read your post, and while you are admirable for trying to find a way to improve by playing a level 9, it just won't help you once you get beyond a certain point in skill level. It's decent early on, but later it's a joke.

 

[JesiahTEG]

lol Lv 9 comps are too fun with their habits. I think the main use of lv 9 comps is showing a player that has never seen advanced techniques before that you can beat a lv 9 without getting hit once and watching them say "OMG YOUR AMAZING" and then I'm just like " yeah, I know." not telling them of course how incredibly easy it is to exploit their weaknesses.

It just makes you look so cool.

 

[7734]

I practice with a lv. 1 to get combos down and individual char. techniques and then a lv. 7 to get me up to speed. Works well for me.

 

[Nick Nasty]

Everytime that I try to play against a lvl. 9 comp, they always do stupid things like DIing towards you even though you are going to fsmash them in their face, but do they learn? Maybe when Hell freezes over. However, I do see your point.

 

[theONEjanitor]

I read your post, and while you are admirable for trying to find a way to improve by playing a level 9, it just won't help you once you get beyond a certain point in skill level. It's decent early on, but later it's a joke.

agreed.
and i think that once you get to that level, you should already be attending tournaments and smashfests enough to where you can practice your mind games and other tactics.

 

[thebluedeath1000]

Tera, I don't know if its just my window or not, but you stretched out the thread badly with your avatar, please remove it.

 

[Dogysamich]

One day im gunna sit down and type a thread about playing against cpus, but here's my thing about level 9 computers.

They're useful in the fact that you can practice some of your combos and whatnot in a somewhat serious manner. As in, you have to do a little work to set it up, and you have to actually do it, you cant **** up and start over like practice.

The problem with Lvl 9 CPUS is that they do NOT DI, meaning stuff that works on them will NOT work on regular people, and the burden lies on you to figure out what will work and what wont.

Furthermore, you have to figure out if your opponent can actually jump out of said combo or not, cause the CPU will not jump out.

 

[HideousBeing]

You list valid points. I agree with the usefulness in comboing. CPU's do make good combo sandbags, because the instant they stop tumbling, they will try to beat you away. I still believe though, that playing CPU's is dangerous. It's almost like "un-learning." CPU's begin to change your natural instincts when playing smash, and will increase how predictable you are. Also, I don't believe you are correct in assuming that CPU's cannot help you learn to shffl and WD. Being starved of decent competition myself, when I was learning the advanced techniques, it was CPU's that taught me to incorporate them into my playing. It's one thing to be able to perform a WD or shuffle when playing against no one, but it is an entire other to be able to perform these when the pressure's on. Like it has been said so often,
"Learning to WD (or do any advanced technique for that matter) is the easy part. Integrating it is the difficult part."
It didn't take me more than 5 hours of practice on and off, to learn how to WD. I am still learning to manipulate the move.

 

[theONEjanitor]

yeah, thats basically what I said about wavedashing and SHFFLing

maybe i wasn't clear. i meant, don't learn HOW to wavedash against computers. and don't practice mastering the actual button combination....learn that against a stagnant opponent. once you can do it at will...then learn to do it when the pressures on against a human, and if you cant find a human, use a level 9.

allso dogy, the cpu DOES DI, just not very well