The updated A.I. is pretty damn awesome.

[Mr.Random]

Zelda AI is annoying me......which is good.

 

[Sixth-Sense]

The PMBR should really start advertising to get people to code the AI, it just seems like so much work for one single person, if anything kingclubber has gone a lonnnggggg way alone

Hopefully when PM has most of its engine problems resolved, all of the other coders will start to concentrate on other aspects of the game, like AI for example

 

[Daftatt]

The PMBR should really start advertising to get people to code the AI, it just seems like so much work for one single person, if anything kingclubber has gone a lonnnggggg way alone

if kingclubber wants to post some notes on the ai_char.pac inside the FitCharMotionEtc.pac (at least I'm pretty sure that's where the CPU code is) I would be happy to help, I've done PPC ASM coding. If he gave us a good enough guide individual people could work on a character.

How does the CPU spacies handle Marth's chaingrab? Do they mix up their di more like a human opponent? Also, how comparable is this to Melee? I ask because I'm working on this in melee right now, and if the chaingrab is similar enough and the AI DIs it better I will actually practice this in P:M.

They actually do mix-up their DI. Marth, fox, and falco are all almost completely identical to their melee incarnations (certainly in weight and grab boxes), so I think it should be the same as in melee.

wiiztec posted this in another thread

seems like DK can't figure out D3's hitbox

 

[Daftatt]

double post... whoops

 

[Sai_]

Despite that blue region described in Daftatt's post, the AI can be brutal, but eventually become predictable. Marth and Roy's game at lv9 is the same Fair or Nair SHFFL and you'll realize that all you need is to wavedash out of their reach to counter their SHFFLing; however, when I was fighting my sister, she made some predictable moves with Kirby (spamming down B in the air) but she was able to make some combos with Link and it wasn't predictable and she was able to take a stock or two away from me. The point of this is to show AI needs to have multiple game styles so they don't become extremely predictable: Zelda spams Dins to Fair or Bair you into them, TLink spams his projectiles, Luigi does a lot of aerial attacks that moves you vertically; all of it is predictable and you'll know what type of style you are fighting against as soon as you see your opponent.

 

[Daftatt]

Despite that blue region described in Daftatt's post, the AI can be brutal, but eventually become predictable. Marth and Roy's game at lv9 is the same Fair or Nair SHFFL and you'll realize that all you need is to wavedash out of their reach to counter their SHFFLing; however, when I was fighting my sister, she made some predictable moves with Kirby (spamming down B in the air) but she was able to make some combos with Link and it wasn't predictable and she was able to take a stock or two away from me. The point of this is to show AI needs to have multiple game styles so they don't become extremely predictable: Zelda spams Dins to Fair or Bair you into them, TLink spams his projectiles, Luigi does a lot of aerial attacks that moves you vertically; all of it is predictable and you'll know what type of style you are fighting against as soon as you see your opponent.

while I'm not sure the extent that KC can actually increase the defensive and offensive options for a character, most AI are simply programmed after a general competitive playstyle of said character, which can be pretty predictable in themselves, especially marth (it ain't no ken's marth)

 

[Sai_]

If it were possible to extend the AI's options, they would be incredible at lv9. All the top play from 3.0's lv9 can be transfered down to lv8. This would be great for those who don't have a chance to play with other human players.

 

[Daftatt]

If it were possible to extend the AI's options, they would be incredible at lv9. All the top play from 3.0's lv9 can be transfered down to lv8. This would be great for those who don't have a chance to play with other human players.

I'm confused what you mean by transferred down to level 8.

 

[Sai_]

I'm confused what you mean by transferred down to level 8.

I think lv7 and lv8 are too similar; that could just be me. If the AI can be improved significantly, that means that the best play style comes from lv9, and as AI improves, the difficulty gap from lv8 to lv9 will increase significantly as well. By making the current lv9 AI lv8 in future releases, and improving the already existing lv9 AI, the AI difficulty curve would be more linear, so that training with CPU's can be more comprehensible.

 

[KingClubber]

Here's how it works

-Bero works on Ai when he's not busy on other things. (Fixing PM up for Japan, School)
-Dantarion might help for a little while, before he gets pulled into another project or the rest of the PMBR hogs his attention for more important things.
-Shanus pops up out of no where, tosses AI theory (That usually works) and disappears again.
-Random PMBR member fools around with AI but doesn't stick around, or never shows off their work.

Every time i see "I Wanna Help" i point out Bero's AI Program, and say i'll help you along.

Sadly no one sticks around.

-TailsMiles249 - Made thread about CPU L-canceling better, using copy paste (Bad) coding from my work (stuck around for the attention, after hype died he was never heard from again)(saw him again on kc-mm tried to get attention there, lasted days)
-Kneato - Messaged me about AI, seemed to know what he was talking about (stuck around for 5-6 days, was never heard from again)
-SandBag(Smods) - Messaged me about wanting to learn to code AI (was never heard from again)

Just got a message from some dude today named OrpheusAI about "Evolving AI" he joined smashboards yesterday has 0 post, not expecting to hear from him again.

Hell... Bero recruited a guy in the PMBR Japan BackRoom, i don't think he even touched anything.

:D

So yeah...

But its cool, i've learn to accept the help i'm given and forget about everything else.

It's better that way.

----

No, no , no.

You see i only do my work on lvl.9's.

But the Dream

Falco
9 - Dr.PP
8 - Mang0
7 - WestBallz
.
.

is a possible dream (after 3.0), if that dream will be come a reality is another dream altogether.

you get the idea.

 

[Daftatt]

so say I do have some PPC experience, where would I start with messing around with CPU AI?

 

[KingClubber]

http://forums.kc-mm.com/index.php?topic=62818.0

 

[Daftatt]

http://forums.kc-mm.com/index.php?topic=62818.0

where can I find the scripts for the current donkey kong? or do I have to use the ASM in his pac from the release?
EDIT: nevermind, figured it out.

 

[QQQQQQQ7777777]

TailsMiles249 was never heard from again
Kneato was never heard from again
SandBag was never heard from again

You killed all those innocent people! You heartless ro......... *QQQQQQQ7777777 was never heard from again*

 

[Daftatt]

http://opensa.dantarion.com/wiki/AIScript_Notes
are these notes still current?

 

[KingClubber]

Kinda

Here's my list

10 - Stand Still
20 - Walk to
40 - Walk up to you

50 - Jump!
51 - short hop approach
52 - full hop approach
53 - short hop double jump
54 - full hop
55 - full hop back
56 - short hop back
57 - short hop double jump approach
58 - full hop double jump approach

60 - Dash up to you
70 - Shield+Roll
80 - Gets on the other side of you

1010 - Stick toward?(Meta used Down b to approach with this)
1020 - Stick toward
1030 - Stick towards (Did not change platforms)
1040 - Stand still (Meta used Side B though)
1050 - Get on same platform (Olimar did NOT do this)
1060 - Follow Air Brone stunned Target

1070 - Jump repeatedly (No R or L, just double jumping till out of jumps)
1071 - Jump-Nair?
1072 - Jump-Fair?
1073 - Jump-???
1074 - Jump-???
1075 - Jump-Bair?
1076 - Short Hop Back
1077 - Quick double jump



1080 - Di??
1090 - Same as above?
10A0 - Character specific stuff
10D0 - Nothing?
10F0 - Ledge Wait
1100 - ???
1120 - Throw Commands
1130 - Marth did netral B offstage with this?
1140 - Follow Offstage (For edgeguarding?)
1160 - MK spammed down b

1170 - Follow to end of ledge? (For edgeguarding?)
2010 - Jump Recovery (Edge)(Above Ledge Recovery)
2020 - Side+B Recovery [All Chars]
2030 - Jump Recovery (Land on Stage)
2040 - Recovery [Character Specific]
2050 - ??? (Enters routine during hurt-state/randomly)
2060 - ???

3010 - Wait for Respawn Target
3020 - Premptive Shield?
3030 - Character specific Action (Mario, Lucario, Shiek, Olimar, ??)
3040 - Crouch Canceling
3050 - ???
3060 - Air Dodge?
3070 - ???
3080 - Dash Dancing
3090 - Walk in range?(Not too close though)
30A0 - Spotdodge
30B0 - Dodge when attacked
30C0 - ???
30D0 - Airdodge when attacked
30E0 - Reflect? Character specific defensive action?
30F0 - ???

6030 - Rapid Attack? - Ground Attacks/Specials Command
6031 - Jab
6032 - F-Tilt
6033 - U-Tilt
6034 - D-Tilt
6035 - F-Smash
6036 - U-Smash
6037 - D-Smash
6038 - neutral-B on Ground
6039 - Forward-B on Ground
603A - Up-B Attack (on Ground)
603B - Down-B Attack (On Ground)
603C - Grab
603D - (???)
603E - (plumble?)
603F - (plumble?)
6040 - N-air? - Aerial Attacks/Specials Command
6041 - N-air?
6042 - F-Smash Charge (F-air?)
6043 - "Re" F-Smash Charge (B-air?)
6044 - U-Smash Charge (U-air?)
6045 - D-Smash Charge (D-air?)
6046 - neutral-B in Air?
6047 - Forward-B in Air?
6048 - Up-B in Air?
6049 - Down-B in Air?

 

[Daftatt]

Kinda

Here's my list

thanks a ton, that really helps. So when I look at FitDonkeyMotionEtc.pac for his AI scripts, I'm assuming because they aren't listed they don't exist and aren't somewhere else like common3.pac right?

also, dafuq is plumble? plummeting tumble?

 

[Takizama]

Love the points, and I know this was covered, I just want to contribute to the converstation . If you want to win with the ai 90% of the time just play zelda and spam upsmash because the Ai wont DI away from you, it will fall back down and u can do it again and lazy air juggle them

 

[Daftatt]

Love the points, and I know this was covered, I just want to contribute to the converstation . If you want to win with the ai 90% of the time just play zelda and spam upsmash because the Ai wont DI away from you, it will fall back down and u can do it again and lazy air juggle them

Yep, you are correct sir, the AI can direct it's tumble at higher percentages though (unless they are marth, silly marth) and falco seems to be one of the few characters that can act out of tumble.

 

[SixSaw]

CPUs seem to DI randomly out of throws so it can be helpful for practicing chain grabs. The only exception I've noticed is if you grab them on/near the edge, in which case they will always DI into the stage.

 

[KingClubber]

pumble is rapid jab, don't use that

AI scripts are located in
CharacterMotion.pac
Fighter.pac (Not a FitCharacter.pac)
Hardcode

 

[AzureJon]

The new AI is definitely awesome. Job well done.

The one that never fails to kick me around is Lucas. That AI either hates my guts, or has just had way too much caffeine.
\

 

[NoLife]

great job on the AI in this...idk if this is in the bug reporting thing or not but ive noticed that on yoshis island (brawl) the CPUs will fall to their death waiting for the support ghost to come and save them (which never happens) ive noticed this many tmes. other than that great job the survival DI was crtical for my practice glad u added that

 

[KingClubber]

...

Nothing i can do about that, AI thinks all platforms are part of the stage, including that cloud. So it just thinks its landing on the stage itself.

 

[Kneato]

Spoiler

Here's how it works

-Bero works on Ai when he's not busy on other things. (Fixing PM up for Japan, School)
-Dantarion might help for a little while, before he gets pulled into another project or the rest of the PMBR hogs his attention for more important things.
-Shanus pops up out of no where, tosses AI theory (That usually works) and disappears again.
-Random PMBR member fools around with AI but doesn't stick around, or never shows off their work.

Every time i see "I Wanna Help" i point out Bero's AI Program, and say i'll help you along.

Sadly no one sticks around.

-TailsMiles249 - Made thread about CPU L-canceling better, using copy paste (Bad) coding from my work (stuck around for the attention, after hype died he was never heard from again)(saw him again on kc-mm tried to get attention there, lasted days)
-Kneato - Messaged me about AI, seemed to know what he was talking about (stuck around for 5-6 days, was never heard from again)
-SandBag(Smods) - Messaged me about wanting to learn to code AI (was never heard from again)

Just got a message from some dude today named OrpheusAI about "Evolving AI" he joined smashboards yesterday has 0 post, not expecting to hear from him again.

Hell... Bero recruited a guy in the PMBR Japan BackRoom, i don't think he even touched anything.

:D

So yeah...

But its cool, i've learn to accept the help i'm given and forget about everything else.

It's better that way.

----

No, no , no.

You see i only do my work on lvl.9's.

But the Dream

Falco
9 - Dr.PP
8 - Mang0
7 - WestBallz
.
.

is a possible dream (after 3.0), if that dream will be come a reality is another dream altogether.

you get the idea.

Yea, after we talked, I worked on Luigi's recovery routines for a while. I made some progress getting him to use his down b and side b properly for recovery, but then got kinda discouraged after I hit a snag. I also assumed anything I did would be made redundant come 3.0. If you actually want some help with this stuff, I do want to help. Right now, I am pretty busy organizing McSmashter 3 and applying to grad schools, but after January 12th I can give it another go.

 

[KingClubber]

...

Kneato Lives!?

Luigi's Recovery has been fixed but it just didn't make it into 3.0...

Quite a few things didn't make it

- sweet spot recoveries for the top roll characters including fox and falco (Can't Touch This)
- super aggro fox, and c.falcon (Too Buggy)
- tech skill savvy zelda. (SD'd to much)
- Tech/Roll Chase into rest Jiggypuff (Pure Evil)
- Tech Skill Taunt for Fox (Everyday I'm Shuffling)
- Mookwalking taunt for C.falcon
- etc (other stuff i can't remember at the moment)

 

[QQQQQQQ7777777]

Kneato Lives!?

Luigi's Recovery has been fixed but it just didn't make it into 3.0...

Quite a few things didn't make it

- sweet spot recoveries for the top roll characters including fox and falco (Can't Touch This)
- super aggro fox, and c.falcon (Too Buggy)
- tech skill savvy zelda. (SD'd to much)
- Tech/Roll Chase into rest Jiggypuff (Pure Evil)
- Tech Skill Taunt for Fox (Everyday I'm Shuffling)
- Mookwalking taunt for C.falcon
- etc (other stuff i can't remember at the moment)

can you make it to were characters that have charge moves (Lucario`s super meter charging taunt/Aura Sphere, Mewtwo`s Shadow Ball, Samus`s Charge Beam, Ivy`s Solarbeam) actually charge those moves when a player is respawning instead of taunting? Is that even possible?

 

[KingClubber]

Of course it is, but that sounds soooo boring.

Guess I'll ask the PMBR when i start working on things again, and see what they think.

 

[210stuna]

notsureifserious.jpg

 

[The21stSmasher]

Awesome? The only awesome thing about AI in Project M, is that they can L-Cancel and wave-dash quite well (Which everyone should of seen if you fought a Level 9 CPU). But here's another flaw: Why do CPUs tend to air dodge any attack while there close to death or falling off the stage, but air dodges anyways. It like their scared.

 

[KingClubber]

...

Try reading the thread before you post next time, any points in your post were already addressed.

 

[Sai_]

can you make it to were characters that have charge moves (Lucario`s super meter charging taunt/Aura Sphere, Mewtwo`s Shadow Ball, Samus`s Charge Beam, Ivy`s Solarbeam) actually charge those moves when a player is respawning instead of taunting? Is that even possible?

That reminds me, not sure if this was brought up before, but character that have charge up moves like Mewtwo's shadow ball and Lucario's blue ball will charge it until it's finished, and that's the ONLY thing they will do until that action is finished, and anyone can hit them in that time. They basically get stuck doing that animation until finished charging.

 

[NoLife]

That reminds me, not sure if this was brought up before, but character that have charge up moves like Mewtwo's shadow ball and Lucario's blue ball will charge it until it's finished, and that's the ONLY thing they will do until that action is finished, and anyone can hit them in that time. They basically get stuck doing that animation until finished charging.

he has a point

 

[The21stSmasher]

Try reading the thread before you post next time, any points in your post were already addressed.

I DID read before posting! Xenozoa425 mentioned how the AI is awesome in the start of his topic, so I replied to that. So don't make up a assumption that I didn't read it first. I'm not stupid.

 

[HyperrCrow]

I DID read before posting! Xenozoa425 mentioned how the AI is awesome in the start of his topic, so I replied to that. So don't make up a assumption that I didn't read it first. I'm not stupid.

Did you read the WHOLE entire 2 pages before this? He's not saying you're dumb, just that he already answered your question on a previous page. If you did read as you claimed you have, you would have known this and wouldn't have posted redundant information.

 

[KingClubber]

What HyperrCrow said.

----

Yes i've heard about the charging problem, i'll figure out something later.

 

[Brim]

Just started fighting the BOTs more, only real ones I have any trouble with is damn Luigi, and Lucas. I'm not sure what to think of Lucas other than he looks damn good now.

 

[KingClubber]

So guys i'm trying to get some stuff done for the patch coming soon.

Here's what i've done so far.

-Air Dodging SD Problems (But not all of them.)
-Standing doing nothing (Will now wavedash back, and try for another action.) (Temp Fix)
-Run to Ledge Recovery Bug fix

If there is anything else that needs my attention, or something you'd like to see implemented better say so now.
Going to say this now, i won't be doing everything posted so if you suggestion or fix doesn't make it. Do not be upset.

 

[DrinkingFood]

SHFFLing SDs, although I imagine you probably have already looked into that or have begun to do so. I am a very ledge happy person but this completely breaks the CPUs
Also, do any characters go for ledge techs when trying to recover? most particularly the spacies/falcon/ganon? Maybe they do and I just haven't noticed, but if not, that could be a great addition.
As for edgeguarding, do any CPUs go for ledgehop bairs? For the most part I recall most of them only going for onstage edge guards.

 

[KingClubber]

Making a list here for viewing

https://docs.google.com/document/d/15DZ6ZQXLXWLS1vzCewZUw2GQPs11zfyMrQy7f_yCFXw/edit?usp=sharing