The Unofficial Super Smash Bros Balancing Committee- Anything and everything!

[L1N3R1D3R]

needs buffs to a couple moves to make them better at what they should be doing, but at the same time I don't want his advantage to be too ridiculous if he gets those buffs. Here's how I want to change him:

• Why is U-air so good at racking up damage? The knockback was decreased so it couldn't kill, but that only made its combo ability even more crazy. Decrease damage but revert knockback nerf so it basically has the same knockback as now but doesn't rack up damage as quickly.
• FALCON PUNCH! If only it were as deadly as it were in the anime to make up for its lag...
• Make Falcon Dive travel the same horizontal distance as normal if you B-reverse it. H already struggles off stage without this flaw, it only hurts his recovery and edgeguarding even more.

Voting for the best character at edge-guarding, .

 

[Zerp]

Here's Captain Falcon's results: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1c9E0WATuxH8OtbeGvs-giSShiX5a7JivAGot_THqFxA/viewanalytics
Here's Edgy Pit's poll: https://goo.gl/forms/YLPoCePrmj5L0Xjo1

You may vote for any of these characters that have cut themselves by accident on all that edge:

 

[Lola Luftnagle]

• Reduce end lag on all tilts by 10 frames.
• Make landing lag on all aerials 15 frames. Yes, his aerials auto-cancel but looking at the landing lag values puts me away from using them. Y'all sugar pies know by now what needs to return to this game, right?
• Aerial Electroshock Arm recovers so unbelievably slow like 's Flare Blitz (85 recovery frames! oh ****!) Yeah...reduce its end lag in the air by 50% or at least do, like, 16% damage in the air to compensate for its disastrous recovery.
• I wouldn't recommend going with any custom Power of Flight as y'all either lose some distance or control over the flight path.
• Yeah...the Electroshock Arm custom variants...Electrocut Arm is a counter. Pretty useless since there's no attack unless y'all are hit, and I imagine the counterattack's recovery is not much better than Electroshock anyway. Quickshock Arm must be avoided due the greater difficulty in control. Maybe y'all can cross-up with this on block every once in a while...
• Let Guardian Orbitars recover 10 frames faster, please.

Here's what I liked about :

• His aerials recover great with auto-cancel (d-air does not have very good recovery time either way).
• Electroshock Arm possesses knockback values not dissimilar to 's Rest.
• His Final Smash is a near 1-hit K.O.
• Silver Bow, in my opinion, is easier to control and manage than 's arrows of light. Oh, that reminds me: the custom variants on Silver Bow are pretty good. Piercing Bow hurts a bit more with a perfectly straight flight path that I'm used to. Guiding Bow is weaker, but more control over its trajectory. It's also slower-moving, making it easier to control.
• The Guardian Orbitars and its custom variants are multifaceted in use. Reflecting projectiles, knocking opponents back, even gimping (try that on or sometimes).
• He's got a kill throw in forward throw.

In the end, I think the dark angel is a solid upper-mid character with that all-rounder playstyle that lets him cover a good number of matchups. And with that, I vote for his polar opposite, .

 

[L1N3R1D3R]

is almost identical to his much less edgy counterpart, but sadly for him the changes he got were objectively nerfs, and I'd like to address that:

• Reduce lag of F-tilt. If it's going to have less knockback, at least give it some way to capitalize on it.
• Increase damage of Silver Bow. It's simply too weak for how much harder it is to land than Palutena's Bow.

Voting for HIYAYAYAYA, .

 

[Zerp]

I think Dark Pit only needs a few slight buffs to differentiate himself from normal Pit.

Here's Dark Pit's results: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1iiW2BORBqApgE8an0Dak4HgPBN-ZyjNg9EvAlb1M7_E/viewanalytics
Here's Pit's poll: https://goo.gl/forms/Qolj5qtmdanGalk42

You may vote for any of these characters that are glad Pit no longer shouts HIYAYAYAYAYAYA :

 

[Lola Luftnagle]

• The things I said for earlier apply to as well. I'd want their air speed increased by 0.1 of their current air speed value.
• Now I want to cover his Final Smash. The Three Sacred Treasures looks flashy, but once foes learn the defense to avoid it, this is not likely to net any K.O.s. They just have to get behind you to avoid the brunt of the assault. Even being motionless can avoid some of the final barrage. When y'all sugar pies get down to it, Dark Pit Staff smokes this Final Smash.
• Upperdash Arm is yet another move with similar knockback values to 's Rest. The sergeant of Palutena's Army may see more use of this as a finisher if the launch angle was a bit more in line with 's.
• These angels' attacks pack an only-standard amount of punch. I think a small knockback buff to their smashes and back air may be in order.
• I like how the custom variants on Palutena Bow and Guardian Orbitars are so versatile it benefits their all-rounder playstyle.

Right...I cannot wait for this any longer. I'm voting , the many-faced fighter who is not viable without customs. I might have a good bit to share with y'all...

 

[L1N3R1D3R]

basically just needs one buff to put him on par with his edgy self (after the buffs I gave him):

• Buff knockback of Upperdash Arm. Why Dank Pit got this but regular Pit didn't kinda confuses me. Alternatively, decrease its lag to make up for its weaker knockback.

And I'd like to give both versions one final buff:

• Slightly increase all movement speeds. It doesn't have to be much, especially given their multiple jumps and ridiculous aerials like D-air, but it would give them the slight edge (pun intended ) to excel.

Voting for "small size + up-B #2 = absolutely bonkers", .

 

[MarioManTAW]

basically just needs one buff to put him on par with his edgy self (after the buffs I gave him):

• Buff knockback of Electroshock Arm. Why Dank Pit got this but regular Pit didn't kinda confuses me. Alternatively, decrease its lag to make up for its weaker knockback.

And I'd like to give both versions one final buff:

• Slightly increase all movement speeds. It doesn't have to be much, especially given their multiple jumps and ridiculous aerials like D-air, but it would give them the slight edge (pun intended ) to excel.

Voting for "small size + up-B #2 = absolutely bonkers", .

*Upperdash Arm
Pit has the Upperdash, Dark Pit has Electroshock.

 

[Zerp]

Like Dark Pit, I'd like for Pit to receive the slightest of buffs, but in different kinds than Dark Pit so they are a bit more unique.

Here's Pit's results: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1k-2W6z7dOV7oBWbyYZJGpxQDjOUj_AYaJm5j11fLJNw/viewanalytics
Here's Mii Brawler's poll: https://goo.gl/forms/9MePR57ZniQeqO8O2
As always, Mii Brawler's treated as Guest XXXX for the poll, but also as any variant you want when discussing him/her/them.

You may vote for any of these characters :

I'll vote for

 

[L1N3R1D3R]

really just needs his smash attacks buffed, his bad custom moves buffed, and Helicopter Kick nerfed to be a strong yet balanced pick.

• (optional) Make F-smash and D-smash have two more active frames as a sourspot. They're currently terrible because they have very few active frames and a lot of end lag, so this would make them usable.
• Exploding Side Kick (neutral3): Decrease end lag somewhat and it might not be as terribly punishable as it is now, similar to how I would buff Falcon Punch.
• Burning Dropkick (side2): Decrease end lag a little bit, but not as much as I would for Luigi's Green Missile, because at least with this move Brawler keeps his momentum afterward.
• Headache Maker (side3): Somewhat decrease startup, but I could see it being ridiculous if it were too fast.
• Soaring Axe Kick (up1): Significantly increase recovery distance so it has some use over the other two alternatives.
• Helicopter Kick (up2): Decrease aerial mobility afterward, because it's kinda bonkers that this move can gimp so early near the side blast zones and still let you get back to the stage. This would also hurt its recovery, making it not the obvious best choice anymore.
• Head-On Assault (down1): Take away the ground-only property from the first hit and make it able to grab the ledge earlier, similar to how I would buff Bowser Bomb.
• Foot Flurry (down3): Decrease end lag, because currently it's very lackluster on the ground and it only air stalls the first time.

Voting for the character who's "totally top tier" according to top-level players except no one's proven it yet, .

 

[Lola Luftnagle]

What I liked about :

• Generally good speed
• Decent damage-racking capabilities due his combos
• Good number of finishers
• Her multi-hitting jab combo for which I've devised my own taunt: "Taste my female fists!"
• Omega Blitz kills at decently low percentages. Now, anytime I connect this I'll be like and yell, "DAI...TEN...KUU!"
• He/she has four meteor smashes, which is how many spikes has
• Despite lackluster recovery, has some options like Feint Jump and Burning Drop Kick

Okay, just a few things to improve with Fighter:

• Side smash needs its end lag reduced by 15 frames
• Shot Put should launch at a lower angle with greater knockback scaling
• I ask for more reach on attacks since this is one of Fighter's most glaring flaws
• Feint Jump sort of has high landing lag. Shave off 5 frames on that, please. Otherwise, this is Fighter's only good down special.

With that, I'm going to share something with y'all sugar pies who may be new to the game. Try not to make Fighter too large, okay. Large will have 's walk speed and 's dashing speed. Air speed will be decreased to around 's which is middle of the road. On the other side of the spectrum, smaller and lighter Fighters have crazy speed: roughly 's walk and dash speed with an air speed surpassing . Yes, well...I personally treat my small Miis as in which she does not prefer the air. With higher short hops and air speed, aerial fighting is a pain to control. I'd rather stick to the ground and use her better ground speed to pester most enemies. Personally, I like tall with no weight change.

Before this post gets too long, I want to share my thoughts on some special moves:

• Ultimate Uppercut is your intimidation power move. Where has up-tilt, Fighter has a powerful equivalent to that. I like that it comes out quick, hits hard, and even does extra shield damage. Anytime I land this, I'll perform my personal taunt: "Taste my female fist!"
• I like how Exploding Side Kick yields super armor while having higher knockback than Falcon Punch. Too bad it's cloyingly slow with **** recovery (though faster than Falcon Punch)
• Soaring Axe Kick houses a powerful spike, but this move is so easy to gimp due its inability to ledge snap
• Headache Maker and Head-on Assault can spike but they're both stall-then-fall moves leaving you with lots of trouble. Yeah...not worth it, and besides, they look stupid.
• Helicopter Kick and Piston Punch are powerful moves in their own right. Y'all sugar pies better not tone them down.

At the end of the day, 1111 just cannot do very well in most matchups. They need customs to really bring the pain to other characters.
Told y'all I had a lot to share...I take my leave but not before I vote , who I think has some wild moves.

 

[Zerp]

Buff smash attacks and lesser used special moves. Nerf that crazy Helicopter Kick.
Less up-B jank, better frame data.

Here's Mii Brawler's (GXXXX) results: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1fx0Kfw2ls9pXtLcVWL_tUNHv5KlfmcaCPdKMpKFl3wQ/viewanalytics
Here's Corrin's poll: https://goo.gl/forms/dT2FWkAUsLcyhhDF2

You may vote for any of these characters that hold back their laughter everytime Corrin says "I WIN!" :

 

[L1N3R1D3R]

is basically balanced in high tier. Their mobility is unimpressive, but their range, juggle ability, and ridiculous frame data on certain moves like Dragon Lunge well makes up for it. If anything should be changed, it would be a slight buff to mobility in exchange for a slight nerf to Dragon Lunge, but that's unnecessary.

Voting for the character Larry Lurr defended from hate in Brawl, .

 

[Lola Luftnagle]

What I liked about :

• The only FE character to have a projectile (which can paralyze and kill to boot)
• Dragon Lunge freezes foes up for free hits and it also helps stage recovery
• Back air has evasive properties and yields slight recovery distance similar to
• Three kill throws (move over ; y'all ain't the only one with an early kill throw)
• Very strong counter despite its nerf in 1.1.5
• 's color swatches
  
• Torrential Roar kills at a fairly low damage

A few improvements to make for half-dragon, half-swordsman:

• Tilts and smashes should recover five frames faster
• Restore his/her ground speed to what it was when they were released
• Restore the destructive power of Counter Surge in 1.1.3
• Reducing landing lag from down air (26 => 20); otherwise aerial moves recover well on touchdown

Time to vote the guy who has been brutally nerfed the same as , .

 

[Zerp]

I think Corrin's technically balanced pretty well, as in they're pretty much at the exact level I'd like to see all/most characters be at, but it's in a really strange polarizing way where they feel like a otherwise mediocre character that just happens to have two ridiculous buttons, I'd buff some of their general attributes, smash attacks, and tilts, but nerf Dragon Lunge and Counter Surge.

Nerf Dragon Lunge and Counter Surge, buff weight, smash attacks and tilts.

Here's Corrin's results: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1JZjK-vc1QbXwf8G9iTTewBLT6CbTbYjR-baJthNbLhU/viewanalytics
Here's Falco's poll: https://goo.gl/forms/oziZL4JeztPjM6wZ2

You may vote for any of these characters that hold the false belief of 20XX, little do they know that Falco dominates the future:


I'll vote for the character that gets the least amount of love compared to their viability, .

 

[Lola Luftnagle]

Wow, has been brutally watered down. How in the **** did he become an underdog character now? Mmm...time to give him some well-deserved improvements!

• Down air, okay. They had no reason to mess with that. Decrease start-up to i10 and reduce landing lag by 50%. That said, I like that it auto-cancels to give it great recovery.
• Restore auto-cancelled lasers, please.
• I ask for more hit-stun on Reflector. This way the move's **** recovery frames are more manageable.
• An increase in air speed just above or below 's.

Now, let me go over custom specials and Final Smash:

• Explosive Blaster - stupid move since the shot has a windbox to prevent the shot from landing. The opponent has to walk into it. Maybe y'all can use it to get someone outta your face or for occasional edge-guards.
• Burst Blaster - at the cost of damage and reach, these shots have a faster fire rate.
• Falco Phase - pretty useless due to its nonexistent damage and poor recovery
• Distant Fire Bird - I like this since it gives y'all maximum distance while being stronger. If only it started much faster, he wouldn't be gimped/spiked easily.
• Reflector Void - neutralizes projectiles while doing more damage than Reflector. This is pretty nice; y'all sugar pies don't always have to reflect projectiles, instead it is like 's Gravitational Pull which gets on the nerves of projectile users such as but not limited to and and even .
• Landmaster is not too bad, but I think its cannons need an ability to be angled so y'all can hit everyone easier.

Right...our hot-headed friend here does well on both the ground and especially in the air. But in terms of regular attributes, speed, stage-recovery, and finishing ability are lackluster. Yeah...those are his areas that need improvements.

Okey-dokey...I'm-a be voting . Just like , I've a decent amount to share with y'all sugar pies. But I will be much more serious about this than last time y'all rated Swordsman.

 

[L1N3R1D3R]

got enough buffs to where he can do plenty of things if he gets in, but sadly, unlike his canine companion, he can't capitalize on them due to his terrible neutral, bad disadvantage, and even more gimpable recovery. Time to tune up this broken bird!

• Increase overall speed. He's so sluggish compared to Fox that his neutral and follow-up game are highly limited from what they could be. Plus, higher ground speed is canon and he prefers the air, so...
• Decrease lag of F-smash. Remember in Melee how Falco's F-smash was better than Fox's to make up for Fox having the better U-smash? Why does Fox get both in this game?
• I get that D-air was a bit too good in Melee and Brawl, but did it need to be laughably bad in this game? Slightly decrease startup and make the spike hitbox last longer.
• Decrease lag of Lasers so they aren't the worst projectile in the game. Again, they nerfed this move way too hard from Melee and Brawl, where admittedly it was kinda broken.
• Greatly increase knockback of Fire Bird. Remember in Melee how Falco's up-B had higher knockback than Fox's to make up for Fox having the better distance? Why does Fox get both in this game? (Deja vu? It should be...)
• Wow, Echo Reflector is bad. And it didn't even get buffed when Fox's did? Ugh... Decrease lag or something, I honestly don't care what at this point.

Voting for the character Dabuz doesn't consider boring, .

 

[Zerp]

Here's Falco's results: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1Y0jXkiwx_SpDSGXOv0_ecZPigjd1cbMVQW5RVViV6Jk/viewanalytics
Here's Olimar's poll: https://goo.gl/forms/zgmN8WTxEt1fShxt1

You may vote for any of these characters that unfortunately don't have a space ship:

 

[Victory.IsMyDestinySSB4]

I vote for the bigger, faster, and stronger one,.

 

[Matt11111]

Well, I don't take part in this thread all that often, but maybe I'll make that a regular thing. Who knows?
So. . Let's talk about him. I think he should be able to have 5 Pikmin out at once, one for each color. I also think he should have more attacks that don't use his Pikmin, because if I remember correctly, Solomar has like... five. Also I think when he dies, he should respawn with a set of Pikmin (maybe red, yellow, and blue, or maybe wherever he left off last time) so he doesn't have to waste his precious invincibility frames plucking some from the ground.

Voting for the Smash character that looks best in a suit,

 

[Lola Luftnagle]

Right...here are a few changes I propose:

• Slightly faster ground and air speed
• Faster recovery for up-smash
• Increasing the priority on aerial moves
• Smash attacks should no longer be treated as projectiles. I do believe this is what gives him poorer matchups against the likes of, say, or .

Now, what I liked about :

• Easier to use now since Pikmin are plucked in a pattern and can only have up to three at a time
• Pivot grab recovers pretty quick compared to everyone else which gives him a decent grab game
• Much better stage recovery move in Winged Pikmin
• Similar to , he pisses off most characters by having good defense
• His aerials have decent recovery, even his down air and up air
• Great damage racking abilities (eg. white Pikmin for pummels and Pikmin throw)

And now, let's talk custom moves (I won't waste my time talking about the Final Smash since it gets him KOs at a good rate)...

• I'd suggest Hardy Pikmin Pluck since Pikmin have more stamina this way. Explosive Pluck might do damage, but not worth it for the longer animation, so...
• Pikmin Throw - both sticky and tackle may work here to put good pressure on foes
• Winged Pikmin - neither custom is worth talking about, so...
• Pikmin Order - both custom variants can damage opponents, but they have longer animations. The **** with these; use Pikmin Order, please.

I'm pretty persistent, so I'm voting again, there. We'll eventually have to get to her...

 

[L1N3R1D3R]

Am I the only one who notices the risk involved in buffing ? Sure, he might have the problem of projectiles as smash attacks and most moves not working without Pikmin, but most of his moveset has ridiculous frame data, damage, and versatility (Pikmin Pluck and U-air come to mind) which most people seem to overlook. He might only be high-mid tier now, but I worry that any buffs he gets might push him over the edge to Brawl-level dominance. Like Little Mac and Lucario, he has immense strengths hidden by exploitable weaknesses that keep him in check. My personal bias against him might play a role in my opinion, but I don't think he needs any changes lest he become ridiculous.

Voting for the character who compensates for his lack of space ship with a Dong Copter, .

• Winged Pikmin - neither custom is worth talking about, so...

I don't know about you, but I find Mighty Winged Pikmin pretty handy. You might lose some long-distance recovery, but that was pretty gimpable anyway, and you can now keep all your Pikmin while traveling a good vertical distance.

 

[Dig Dug]

About a year ago around this time, I used to have a pretty pessimistic outlook on Olimar. Now the past few months my opinion of him's been rising. I think he might be able to climb pretty high on the tier list.

Here's my last post on Oli:

Oli, huh? I'd put him either on the lower end of high tier or top of upper mid. He's a good character with checks and balances. As for changes...

His Pikmin AI needs serious fixing. Here are some of the problems they have

• They can desynch from your lineup depending on your movement
• They freak out at the ledge
• The arrow indicating your active Pikmin won't update properly on some occasions. Basically, it may stay on a Pikmin you used for side b or fsmash and you'll be unable to use another Pikmin even if you have some with you.
• There's a glitch where Pikmin may get stuck on the ledge when you get sent flying offstage. They'll join up with you once you touch the stage again, but while you're offstage you're own your own and they won't respond to whistle either.
• When using either of his custom neutral Bs, their grab ranges get completely messed up, usually shortened in most cases. If you try to dash grab with a purple for example, it ends up behind you. I don't even use customs, but the fact this got overlooked triggers me.

Whew. Outside of that, the only other thing I'd change is removing the item priority property on his aerials. I understand having it on his smashes, without it they'd go from absurdly good to straight up broken, plus they are projectiles, but his aerials...? They're not good enough to warrant having that tacked on to them.

I still want these changes. Particularly for item priority. If the priority were to remain the same as it is now, then I just ask for a range buff on fair. From what I've seen and experienced, that move gets screwed over the most and some extra range would at least help keep Olimar a little safer.

Now on to my other changes:

Fair Quality of Life Buffs:
-Increase Jab 2's hitbox size. It can have connectivity issues on certain characters (most prominently with... Ganon for some reason)
-Fix Olimar's grab so it doesn't whiff on people standing right in front of him
-Have his Pikmin aerials not randomly fail if used out of his up b

'Probably Asking for Too Much' Buffs:
-Utilt is almost worthless outside of a few niche uses. I don't even know how to fix this move! Increasing its knockback would make it slightly less garbage I guess. I'd rather decrease its endlag, but that would give him another means into his uair chains at low percents and that might be too much. I hate you utilt.
-Decrease uair and dair landing lag from 30>20

'Definitely Asking for Too Much' Buffs:
-Greatly reduce Upsmash's endlag so I can spam that too ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
-Make Alph actually blink every now and then so he stops scaring me

I vote for

 

[Zerp]

Update will probably be late today.

 

[Zerp]

Will edit something in later
Here's Olimar's results: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1wrC8R0mfR5xp5QNdGbkaajx3trlEzbOsiGjMQWAULRo/viewanalytics
Here's Donkey Kong's poll:lhttps://goo.gl/forms/vSa1maLqdilANfU42

You may vote for any of these characters that aren't part of the DK crew, nor the leader of the bunch and aren't here to kick some tail:

 

[Matt11111]

Deeeee Kayyyyy.... Hmmm. Well, right off the bat, Spinning Kong. The vertical distance on that move is atrocious. Fix it.
Um.... not a lot I have to say here...
Bye.

 

[Lola Luftnagle]

Well, here's what I liked about :

• Good speed for a biggie (the other being )
• Jab 1 is useful due to its angle it knocks foes in
• His back air somehow carries 's legacy by being fast and rather powerful. Y'all sugar pies have an all-purpose move here: finishing move, edge-guarding, combos, what have you.
• Has four meteor smashes (so does like we went over recently)
• His smash attacks are useful not just because of their high power but also makes his attacking limbs intangible
• Giant Punch yields super armor. Now, you and your opponent each deliver a finishing blow and trade with each other only for our simian friend to survive
• This guy can pressure shielding foes nicely with moves like Headbutt or Spinning Kong. Okay, this is because some of his attacks do high shield damage. Now, if y'all get lucky and break someone's shield, quote one of's most popular memes: "You'll get no sympathy from me."
• And finally...the Ding Dong shenanigan

As for fixes, yeah...I only have one to suggest. His f-air cannot auto-cancel, so y'all get very bad recovery from this. Decrease the landing lag by 50% or make it auto-cancel on or after frame 40.

Right...I'll go over customs and the Final Smash:

• Giant Punch - both Thunder Ape Fist and Wind Ape Fist are powerful in their own right though neither do anywhere near as much damage as Giant Punch. I dubbed them thunder/wind ape fist since I play Tekken just as much as Smash Bros., but enough about that.
• Headbutt - well, the jumping headbutt has evasive properties, but it never hits. Even if it does land, opponents aren't buried as long as regular headbutt. Heck, I don't even know if this will at least do something to help with DK's vertical recovery. *sigh* The **** with this, I am going with Stubborn Headbutt. It may be slow, but it's harder to be hit out of the move.
• Spinning Kong - Hmm...Chopper Kong gives him much greater vertical displacement, but doesn't inflict damage. Not worth it because not only is it harmless y'all no longer have horizontal control, so... Kong Cyclone has a powerful single hit as opposed to multiple weak hits that will never link properly due SDI and what-not. Pretty much the same recovery distances as Spinning Kong, so I like it.
• Hand Slap - yeah, I don't know about y'all sugar pies, but Hot Slap is the tops since on the ground it has hitboxes which can catch airborne foes. Can't get that with Hand Slap/Focused Slap. Now, Focused Slap is nice since it paralyzes first and then launches afterwards but a bit lacking in reach
• Konga Beat - one of the most **** Final Smashes around. If y'all do get a KO with this (or at least trap them in the weak soundwaves), rest assured that opponent sucks. Using this on a scrolling stage is suicide since DK cannot move at all, but it does help that he scrolls with the stage when used in the air. Sakurai could have given him something better, like throwing explosive barrels and bouncing jacks across the stage, but nooo...it had to be playing bongos with limited-range soundwaves.

Well, I sure had a lot to say today. I dare say, Donkey Kong needs no buffs/nerfs. Sitting at the top of middle tiers, he kicks his fair share of ass.
Now with that, I shall yet again vote . It's only a matter of time until we get to her...

 

[Victory.IsMyDestinySSB4]

Voting for the Wily-smashing robot, .

 

[L1N3R1D3R]

has recently led Tweek to winning the most stacked MSM yet without Cloud, further solidifying his spot in high-mid tier. I want to buff a few weaker moves, but at the same time I want to tone down his most ridiculous aspect:

• Decrease damage of cargo U-throw (10% --> 8.5%), but slightly increase knockback and hit stun to make up for it. Before you freak out and say that "Ding Dong is the one thing making him viable, don't nerf it!", please hear me out. The increase in knockback and hit stun is only to make up for the fact that decreasing damage decreases those things as well. Thus, the cargo throw will have all the same followups as before, but do slightly less damage. Do you realize how much 10% is for a combo throw? The only other combo throw that does that much damage is R.O.B. D-throw, and even then, R.O.B. has much smaller grab range and his D-throw has much less consistent followups. For comparison, Bowser's U-throw was nerfed in damage from 10% to 6%, a much larger decrease, when it was changed into a combo throw, AND it was later nerfed. DK's got neither, and I'd rather decrease its damage output than increase knockback since DK already does crazy damage and would rather have the more reliable kill setup.

Whew. With that out of the way, let's fix what's silly and bad about him:

• "Let's see... Marcina U-smash involves a simple upward stab...giant scoop hitbox! DK U-smash involves giant arms scooping up from his sides to above his head to clap...no scoop hitbox!" *sigh...*
• "Let's see... DK Giant Punch has huge end lag for a charged move already and doesn't help with recovery at all...I know! Give it freefall!" *sigh...*
• <insert another joke of that type about Headbutt here>

Voting for that one character that exists, I guess,

 

[Zerp]

I think Donkey Kong is pretty much good as is, or if he needs anything, it'd be veerrrryyyy minor buffs.

Here's Donkey Kong's results: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1SalnTelFxZk3p7cbX7LarAvV2aE4c_aaOM7tCz5nqeI/viewanalytics
Here's Mii Swordfighter's poll: https://goo.gl/forms/BCL2pl5Kyv2cYB5p2
Mii Swordfighter's treated as Guest XXXX for the poll, but also as any variant you want when discussing him/her/them.

You may vote for any of these characters that may or may not have swords:


I'll vote for Toon Link.

 

[Lola Luftnagle]

Very well then, time to make reasonable reparations to :

• I know that Swordsman lacks reliable kill set-ups. Jab 1 and jab 2 need weight-based knockback so that high-damage enemies stay close enough for a grab or kill move.
• I say, decrease knockback scaling on down throw. It can allow our quick and powerful up-air to connect easier for a kill confirm. Be like 's Checkmate, this.
• Decrease end lag on side smash by 12 frames. By that same token, reduce end lag on down smash by 10 frames.
• I will not ask for a landing lag reduction for down air since the touchdown hitbox does decent knockback. Instead, I'm going to ask for a better auto-cancel window, say, frame 45. Likewise, for f-air auto-cancel window will be frame 35.
• Since Swordsman appears to have an all-rounder playstyle, I think it's appropriate to have one kill throw. Just one, say, up-throw (which I'd double its knockback scaling).

Those are the only things I want fixed. I am personally not worried about her poor speed or stage recovery as we're dealing with a customizable character here, so...

To any of y'all sugar pies out there new to this game, let me discuss a few guidelines:

• Smallest and lightest yields the following: 's walking speed, 's dash speed, and an air speed just above .
• The largest Swordsman yields the following: 's walk speed, above 's dash speed, and an air speed just above . I never advocate making the largest Mii possible. They may benefit from rage and do roughly x1.05 damage than default, but the sluggishness doesn't make it worth it.

What I liked about :

• Versatile special moves for its all-rounder playstyle
• My female s slashing opponents with their blades. They look pretty when they attack, which is why I've devised a custom taunt: "Aww...did I cut you with my blade?" followed by 's giggle from Mario Party 6. Right...let's move on before I go off on a tangent.

Finally, let me quickly share my thoughts on some custom specials and the final smash:

• Gale Strike - a little slow, but it can neutralize some projectiles and leaves behind a windbox before it dissipates. Damage is a bit lacking, though. I once got 14% with one use but that ain't saying much, so...
• Blade Flurry - a slow-ass power move that leaves bad recovery if it fails to connect. Personally, I like this move, but I recently had all of my Miis use official custom movesets.
• Airborne Assault - I like this for its high knockback (even at low damage) and use in recovery
• Slash Launcher - also good for recovery, but has cross-up potential on shield as well which I like
• Stone Scabbard - not worth talking about, so...
• Skyward Slash Dash - yields maximum recovery distance but that's all it's good for
• Reversal Slash - basically a clone of 's cape, not worth mentioning, so...
• Power Thrust - good knockback with the easy-to-land tip, but I would never use this when foes have low damage
• Final Edge - underwhelming in my opinion. Sakurai and crew could have given her or 's Final Smash.

Wow, have I given quite a lecture. So now that I've given my solemn input on how to improve swordsman, I'll now vote the blazing fury, .

 

[Victory.IsMyDestinySSB4]

Voting for my bro-bot,

 

[L1N3R1D3R]

I don't know enough about to say that much, but I will say that their hitboxes are quite awful and should be fixed. Besides that, what Lola Luftnagle suggested sounds pretty good for buffs.

Voting for the Super Footstooling Robot, .

 

[Guido65]

As someone who uses he is pretty close to being viable yet so far at the same time. His normals are amazing and he even has a respectable neutral game and ground game with 2 of his neutral tools leading well to his advantage state. However the biggest thing plaguing him is he kinda let himself go. Most specifically his stupid jumpsquat which is frame 7 for whatever reason.

Here are the changes I would give mii swordfighter:

Jumpsquat:frame 7 to frame 5(this really prevents mii sword from taking full advantage of his amazing aerials).

Neutral air,down tilt,and jab now cover the whole swords length.

Neutral air now starts right behind him like cloud to remove the blindspot.

Shuriken of light's faf: 50->41

Air Acceleration:0.04->0.06 makes his jumps less committal as well.

These changes would make mii swordfighter more viable without completely rehauling his intended design.

Just gonna leave the changes I suggested earlier. Also I agree with the kill throw but the kill confirm off grab I don't think he should have as it would homogenize him like with and .

 

[Zerp]

Here's Mii Swordfighter's poll: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1tYDMVL-KevxgtGDKKGa55OuFhTH76lA31eeTx0VBGlA/viewanalytics
Here's Mega Man's poll: https://goo.gl/forms/bji1yNu5qiZSR3N52

You may vote for any of these characters that may or may not be robots:

 

[Lola Luftnagle]

Well, here's what I liked about :

• notwithstanding, he's the ultimate piss-off fighter with a plethora of projectiles and a 5-star defense
  
• Good stage recovery
• Up aerial gets on opponents' nerves like 's

What needs improvements:

• 20 frames less recovery on up-tilt. Aside from side smash, nothing recovers so egregiously as this
• Smashes need to recover 10 frames faster
• I'm put away by the bad recovery on his aerials. Yeah, remove 10 recovery frames from each of them
• Make his falling speed a bit slower

*sigh* I'll be honest, I don't use much since he's a much bigger pain to use right compared to or .


Okay, customs and Final Smash evaluation time!

• Metal Blade - I like how you can guide this in any cardinal direction. I can throw one at my feet to confuse them, not always toss them directly at them. Pity that Hyper Bomb or Shadow Blade don't have the range or control that Metal Blade has.
• Crash Bomber - I like how this can pressure opponents by making them shield often or approach you to purge themselves of it. Danger Wrap flies in an arc making it hard to hit, so the **** with this. I'll stick with Crash Bomber. Now, Ice Slasher sounds nice, but frozen enemies won't be sent flying far, so...
• Rush Coil - hmm...I like how Tornado Hold has a damaging hitbox to discourage edge-guarders. Beat, on the other hand, not worth mentioning, so...
• Leaf Shield - Skull Barrier is a reflector but has "holes" in it where y'all could still be pegged with projectiles. Ugh, not worth using. Plant Barrier doesn't fly as far as Leaf Shield but protects y'all well.
• Mega Legends - not too shabby for a Final Smash. Y'all don't have to inflict a particularly high amount of damage for this to guarantee a K.O. Gotta like the cinematics on this...

I'll vote the robot from Rocky 4, .

 

[Victory.IsMyDestinySSB4]

Voting for HURRAAAAAAAGGGGHHHHH!!!!!!
()

 

[L1N3R1D3R]

is basically balanced at this point. Really his worst moves (dash attack, D-smash, F-air, Leaf Shield) are good enough at what they do to not need buffs, and the footstool combo isn't nearly broken enough to need a nerf considering you need to have the Metal Blade in hand and land a grounded footstool for it to work.

Voting for my friend whom I like and fought for, .

 

[Zerp]

Personally, I think Mega Man's very balanced as is and doesn't need any tweaks.
Here's Mega Man's results: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1xIkf_6TigoIkF_Eg4rNUYPFmpyWRRguNpKIJsTwqQsI/viewanalytics
Here's Ike's poll: https://goo.gl/forms/yp60GpX8ATuZMeGN2

You may vote for any of these characters that have seemingly nothing in common with each other:


I'll vote for

 

[L1N3R1D3R]

is stuck in the awkward, ambiguous limbo of the mid tiers, mostly because he doesn't have too much that truly sticks out among the cast. I know he has one move that's pretty bad I'd like to address first:

• D-air. I'd like this to be reworked like Cloud's (though not quite as good, because that move is stupid), where there's a sweetspot at the beginning and, while his sword is still down, a weak sourspot that can possibly lead to followups. This would greatly improve its currently limited versatility and prevent it from being his worst move.

And on top of that I really only want to address two more moves:

• I don't really get what F-throw is supposed to do. D-throw kills, U-throw combos, and B-throw is the best at positioning, while F-throw doesn't really do much. I want to make it more akin to B-throw in its knockback so he can get good positioning no matter where he is.
• Aether is currently a very limited recovery move. Sure, it's quite hard to punish, but at the same time it's travel distance can be quite disappointing. I want to give it the ability to have more horizontal movement during the ascent, which might also help its use offensively for mix-ups and such.

Voting for OMG HYUGA'S BACK, .