The Unofficial Super Smash Bros Balancing Committee- Anything and everything!

[FamilyTeam]

The hell is a Roy zone?

Fancier name for a blindspot closer to the character's model in a move. This is because Roy in Melee had a bunch of moves that would whiff if he used them too close to someone.

 

[EeveeTMI]

My favorite Pokémon really needs buffs,
() Sing needs improving since it's very easy to get out at low percentages, even when the opponent is at 100%, it doesn't make much of a difference.
() Rollout also needs better knock-back, I know it's not a good move in all Smash titles, but this move, at least be as good as it was in Melee.
Jigglypuff also needs more speed for quick and fast characters, make her as at least!
Last, () Rest needs a better hitbox, it's very easy to miss and it also needs a buff in both damage and knockback.

 

[L9999]

My favorite Pokémon really needs buffs,
() Sing needs improving since it's very easy to get out at low percentages, even when the opponent is at 100%, it doesn't make much of a difference.
() Rollout also needs better knock-back, I know it's not a good move in all Smash titles, but this move, at least be as good as it was in Melee.
Jigglypuff also needs more speed for quick and fast characters, make her as at least!
Last, () Rest needs a better hitbox, it's very easy to miss and it also needs a buff in both damage and knockback.

(Formality) Welcome to the Unofficial Balance Committee, here we discuss characters by turns and give opinions on how to balance them. We are currently talking Little Mac, but the thread hasn't been updated yet...Since you are enthusiastic about Puff, how about reading the PDF "Final Round" on the OP? Gave my opinion there.

 

[EeveeTMI]

(Formality) Welcome to the Unofficial Balance Committee, here we discuss characters by turns and give opinions on how to balance them. We are currently talking Little Mac, but the thread hasn't been updated yet...Since you are enthusiastic about Puff, how about reading the PDF "Final Round" on the OP? Gave my opinion there.

Yeah...sorry, I'm very new here...

 

[L9999]

Yeah...sorry, I'm very new here...

No problem. We are always welcome to new opinions and members. With mods getting popular most people moved over there.

 

[EeveeTMI]

Wanna friend each other on 3DS? When I get my 3DS back that is...

 

[L9999]

Wanna friend each other on 3DS? When I get my 3DS back that is...

Sure.

 

[Zerp]

Sorry about the lateness, I may or may not have had a internet outage earlier.
Also, Mr. Game and Watch's name's been up there for that whole time? That's actually kind of hilarious.

Anyway, day's over now.
Here's Little Mac's results: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1EA7kgP0wmAd-zWtn5-OTjrYxLrJNQUToBooooBB6SmU/viewanalytics
Here's Zero Suit Samus's poll: https://goo.gl/forms/L5CIcnNzo86eLbyl1

You may vote for any of these characters that are not in fact Waluigi, as unfortunate as that is.
(Voting for Mew will result in a free day)

 

[L1N3R1D3R]

is one of the most balanced top tiers now that her ridiculous ladder combo has been nerfed. She still has one quite lackluster move and one borderline broken move that should be changed to balance out her moves, though:

• Why does D-tilt need so much end lag? For being one of her only moves that hits low, it has no other use besides that, with its mediocre knockback at a weird angle plus a crazy amount of lag. Lower that somewhat, please (FAF 36 --> 32).
• So all of her "overpowered" moves got nerfed except for Flip Jump, which was arguably the worst offender with crazy intangibility, so much movement, a really early and strong attack that can turn into a deadly spike, or a weaker spike that can help her recover even more. Does it really need to be that good? Completely remove the intangibility (her quick, far movement already makes it hard enough to challenge, and she doesn't need this good of an escape tool either), and reduce the damage of the kick (14 --> 12).

Voting for the honor roll student in genetics class, .

 

[Zerp]

Well, this is normally when the day would end, but Zero Suit Samus's started quite a bit off schedule, so I think I'll just wait until tomorrow at the normal time, because otherwise it'd be like I robbed her of a day, and that's kind of unfair. Probably should have said that earlier, but I kind of forgot about that when I was posting earlier today, lol.

Also, I'll take this a opportunity to vote for .

 

[DJBor]

ZSS would be very well balanced if Flip Jump was not so ridiculously strong. It KOs just as fast as the ladder combo used to.

• Removing the intangibility is an option I did not explore, but it probably is best to keep it, considering how badly I'm nerfing flip jump
  
• Flip jump BKB reduced (45>30), spike BKB reduced (30>20)

I will rate . It'll be interesting to see what changes I make.

 

[Zerp]

I don't really care much about it, but I think Zero Suit Samus should get a nerf that only touches Flip Jump, because that move is ridiculous, it's usually a pretty safe option and gets a amazing reward for that lack of risk. Other than that, I think she's fine as is.

nerf Flip Kick, buff D-tilt

Here's Zero Suit Samus's results: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1pG32nKZNsVsxhv-Azo-Iy71npVMoRvTPwBbUKmm88i8/viewanalytics
Here's Mew's poll: https://goo.gl/forms/4fHSHUd1BHVXqhpn1

You may vote for any of these characters that may or may not be GMO free.


Also, since today's day, alongside discussing what changes Mew should get, you can also discuss pretty much any balance related thing you want to as long as you pay tribute to Mew in the form of all your hard earned cash.

 

[DJBor]

is actually falling in the tier list, often seen as high-mid tier by Smogon's tier rules committee. Despite learning every single TM, Mew still struggles to keep up with the rest of the heavily idealized OU mons. All I can imagine would make Mew better is giving it Technician as a potential ability. That way, Mew gets full value and then some out of its expansive tutor moveset.

Also, my opinion on ? While I test him, that becomes more and more correct to me. Shulk would be so much better if those multihits were fixed!

I vote

 

[Arthur97]

is actually falling in the tier list, often seen as high-mid tier by Smogon's tier rules committee. Despite learning every single TM, Mew still struggles to keep up with the rest of the heavily idealized OU mons. All I can imagine would make Mew better is giving it Technician as a potential ability. That way, Mew gets full value and then some out of its expansive tutor moveset.

Also, my opinion on ? While I test him, that becomes more and more correct to me. Shulk would be so much better if those multihits were fixed!

I vote

It took me a while to figure out that you where actually talking about Pokemon.

 

[L1N3R1D3R]

is the preevolved form of a top tier character, so it would make sense that it should be top tier as well. Please, make all of its moves do 100% damage, come out on frame one with no end lag, and reach across Final Destination.

But seriously, for overall balance changes, I would like defensive options to stale like attacks do. It would be cool to see air dodges, spot dodges, and rolls have less invincibility the more you use them, behaving like move staling with its own separate queue.


Voting for Samsora's princess, .

 

[DJBor]

But seriously, for overall balance changes, I would like defensive options to stale like attacks do. It would be cool to see air dodges, spot dodges, and rolls have less invincibility the more you use them, behaving like move staling with its own separate queue.

Maybe for Smash 5. And add Isaac and Inkling to that wish list as well
As I play at this new local, I find that if Bandai Namco wanted to make one last patch to close out balance, but they only wanted to do it like 1.1.6, they only would NEED to nerf and maybe. You've probably noticed that my Top 10 nerfs, outside of those four, are usually changes to only 1 or 2 moves. As for buffs? Well, all kinds of buffs are good, but really the only characters that NEED buffs are .

 

[Dr.Megaman]

What about ? The only buffs I want are pre patch side b and for all of the hits of his up b to connect.

 

[Zerp]

desperately needs something that makes her scary to shield against, as of right now she has nothing of the sort save for Pound, but what I think she really needs is a reward off of grab. I think making F or B-Throw have less knockback would work, and while they could definitely lead to some potential Rest confirms depending on how low the knockback is, I think it'd be justified in the end.

Also, Mew really could use some touch-ups on his frames, I mean seriously, a 4% tilt with minimal knockback has eighty frames of lag?

Give Mew a better ability... that's all I can think of

Here's Mew's results: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1Y2XPU-t75APNbLIdPX2Cs3zKBDavdZoExsn5-hZuU-A/viewanalytics
Here's Peach's poll: https://goo.gl/forms/cEV4blS9OUoshIS23


You may vote for any of these characters that did not win and are now forever haunted by Peach's victory quote.

 

[L1N3R1D3R]

is almost really good, except her low air speed restricts her otherwise great aerial game. Slightly increase her aerial speed and then she'll be great.

Voting for the one character of these who needs changes the most, .

 

[L9999]

Peach is like 1.1.4 Greninja and Megaman that she needs the top tiers butchered to be a major threat as she is right now. The only problem left would be Meta Knight's entire existence. That MU will always bite her huge butt because she conveniently has the right physics to be 0-to-death'd.

Also, the vote list. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED!? There were 58 characters! I vote Lucina, the only character I liked in Awakening.

 

[Zerp]

I also think Peach is almost perfecto, she just needs some more speed in the air, although, it's true, she will probably still always get rekt by Meta Knight regardless of buffs, but oh well.

Here's Peach's rating: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1qkka-e2FqrY13er-6OYOH_qguY2vNtmhBXlh9o4SlyU/viewanalytics
I'm kind of curious on that one Peach bottom tier vote lol.
Here's Lucina's poll: https://goo.gl/forms/pPfVrwhhE4EVEfvd2

You may vote for any of these characters are probably not time travelers.

 

[DJBor]

shouldn't come back to Smash 5 unless she's a palette swap. I don't feel like Lucina is her own character, and often forget that she's even in the game. That said, being a beginner's Marth does have its advantages- no need to space stuff to get good value out of it. She's probably the easiest secondary in the game, next to (who more people should play because they're super underrated!)
And while we're on the topic of ... voting him in

 

[FamilyTeam]

shouldn't come back to Smash 5 unless she's a palette swap. I don't feel like Lucina is her own character, and often forget that she's even in the game. That said, being a beginner's Marth does have its advantages- no need to space stuff to get good value out of it. She's probably the easiest secondary in the game, next to (who more people should play because they're super underrated!)
And while we're on the topic of ... voting him in

Hm... well the "should come back as a pallete swap" thing is stuff we have discussed earlier in another thread: It's not gonna happen. She's either getting decloned or she's not coming back at all. Turning her into an alt wouldn't really fit considering they're two different characters both gameplay-wise and just character-wise, really.
And it's not like Lucina doesn't need to space. She just has the liberty of not getting a hit as damaging as a slap if she misses spacing or if she's against someone too fast to space. Other than that, the same spacing logic applies for both...

As for my changes of Lucina... You guys probably remember I used to want some radical changes for both Marth and Lucina. I'm over that, nowadays. Now, not only are both of them much better, but I also have a much deeper understanding of how Lucina works.
The only changes I really want are fixes to some of her hitboxes and Roy zones. DB-Forward has a massive one, where using the last slash too soon and too close on some characters just makes Lucina take a step too far and miss the target completely, but if you wait too long then can jump out of it because the hitstun on all of the DB hits is a bit pitiful (DB-Down doesn't even connect the 4 hits reliably because of how next to non-existant the hitstun in that is at low percents). Also, her Up Tilt sometimes goes a bit too far in the Z-Axis and misses people at the beginning of the move (when the sword is in front of her), so that'd be nice to see fixed. That's it.

 

[EeveeTMI]

shouldn't come back to Smash 5 unless she's a palette swap. I don't feel like Lucina is her own character, and often forget that she's even in the game. That said, being a beginner's Marth does have its advantages- no need to space stuff to get good value out of it. She's probably the easiest secondary in the game, next to (who more people should play because they're super underrated!)
And while we're on the topic of ... voting him in

I agree, a palette swap would be fine, but in Smash 5, she would be the Classic Wario from Brawl, what I mean is to include all of her costumes from Smash 4.

 

[Axel311]

I would 2nd lucy being a marth alt skin in a future game.

As for balance, she should get a little more out of grab in my opinion but otherwise she's ok. It's hard to tell where she is power-wise because usually there's no reason to not just play marth instead. They need more differentiating qualities if they're going to be 2 separate characters.

 

[L9999]

Are we really pissing on Lucina because of her appearance in a game that doesn't exist? Give me a break!

Balancing opeenions:
F-Throw and Up Throw KOs much earlier. Nothing broken but something that hopefully would make naysayers shut their snout about the tipper.

 

[MrGameguycolor]

I would 2nd lucy being a marth alt skin in a future game.

I thought we were discussing the character's part in the meta game, not demoting her to a skin change.

As for balance, she should get a little more out of grab in my opinion but otherwise she's ok. It's hard to tell where she is power-wise because usually there's no reason to not just play marth instead. They need more differentiating qualities if they're going to be 2 separate characters.

When will people stop using this term... It's incredibly demeaning towards the character & the people who prefer using them over others.

Anyway, I feel Lucina goes were Marth goes.
Though I must say I'm surprised that they didn't try to differentiate her & Pittoo over the course of the patches to the point where they started to stand out more as clones, sort of like Dr. Mario.

 

[Alexander1583]

Most of the changes i would have done to her have already been covered by the people above me. If i had to add anything, it would be minor damage buffs to her non combo attacks(like foward tilt, final hits of dancing blade etc). As for the whole smash 5 subject: Please return with changes like the rest of semiclones did(i miss her spears and skills from fe awakening).

 

[Alexander1583]

I thought we were discussing the character's part in the meta game, not demoting her to a skin change.

Though I must say I'm surprised that they didn't try to differentiate her & Pittoo over the course of the patches to the point where they started to stand out more as clones, sort of like Dr. Mario.

Yeah, that was probably my biggest problem with patches.

 

[Arthur97]

Gotta love how no one seems to think she can be decloned.

Still, yeah, I don't use either of them an awful lot, so...yeah.

 

[L1N3R1D3R]

, just like her source character Marth, just needs a buff to one move to be really solid:

• D-air has stuck a low risk vs. reward ratio, it's almost useless. Use it anywhere below the stage ledge, and even without fast falling and with a double jump she probably won't recover. The sweet spot is so tiny and the sour spot so unimpressive that this high risk just isn't worth it. Please decrease the end lag so it's not so terrible.
• (optional) Since it's pretty much universally agreed that Marth's tipper makes him better than Lucina in most matchups, I think she could use for a slight buff in another move, namely to decrease the end lag of D-smash, but she doesn't absolutely need it to thrive.

Voting for the floaty who for some reason turns into a fast faller upon removing her suit, .

 

[FamilyTeam]

Just as I predicted: This, indeed, was a pain to read. I thought this thread was to discuss what we wish could be changed in a character, not "what should be done in a hypothetical future entry of this series". It's also gem comments such as "Marth's tipper makes him better than Lucina in most matchups" and "It's hard to tell where she is power-wise because usually there's no reason to not just play marth instead." that I expected, and I got them. Yay.

 

[Arthur97]

To be fair, there isn't much to talk about her gameplay wise in Smash 4. Pretty much just whether or not the lack of the tipper is truly detrimental to her game.

 

[MrGameguycolor]

Just as I predicted: This, indeed, was a pain to read. I thought this thread was to discuss what we wish could be changed in a character, not "what should be done in a hypothetical future entry of this series". It's also gem comments such as "Marth's tipper makes him better than Lucina in most matchups" and "It's hard to tell where she is power-wise because usually there's no reason to not just play marth instead." that I expected, and I got them. Yay.

It's hard maining a non overly-popular character these days.
Personally, I've just learned to carry on & make my own opinions.
(I think Corrin is more viable then Marth & Lucina)

 

[L9999]

Just as I predicted: This, indeed, was a pain to read. I thought this thread was to discuss what we wish could be changed in a character, not "what should be done in a hypothetical future entry of this series". It's also gem comments such as "Marth's tipper makes him better than Lucina in most matchups" and "It's hard to tell where she is power-wise because usually there's no reason to not just play marth instead." that I expected, and I got them. Yay.

At least you are not alone....

 

[FamilyTeam]

Anyone gonna try to suggest actual changes to the character other than us mains?
It would indeed be interesting to see more opinions than just "Make her an alt". It would also be better to see the summary of the requested changes Zero-Soul always makes be that.

 

[DakotaBonez]

If I was to design Lucina, I would approach her similarly to how Falco was designed. Slower speed, Higher Jump, and a couple of Spikes.

I'd make her much slower, but able to jump much higher than Marth.
Give her shield breaker (neutral-b) alot more Horizontal recovery when used midair, even when uncharged.
Make her dolphin slash (up-b) shorter because the increased jump height makes up for it.
Also, give her d-air a spike across the whole blade's length, instead of just the tip.
Give her dancing blade some more dramatic effects, like the with the final downward dancing blade doing crazy shield damage (or does it already break shields I forget?) Make the side dancing blades come out hyper fast and give her horizontal recovery like puff's side-b, and the upward dancing blade giving some vertical recovery when used midair. Also downward dancing blades could have downward knockback when used midair.

So basically, a more aerial focused Marth. Make all her aerials come out crazy fast. I want her to never have a reason to be on the ground ever.

 

[Arthur97]

I still think they should take a page from STEAM and give her a bow.

 

[Lord Dio]

Definitely NOT a future alt for Marth, imo. That just feels like a degradation of the character tbh. Declone her please!

This may be just me, but I can never spike with Lucina's dair. Finding a way to work that out would be much appreciated.
Anything else I can think of, has really been stated by above comments.
That's all I've got on my favorite female FE character, and underrated and really disliked smash 4 character (imo).

 

[Kikkipoptart12]

Anyone gonna try to suggest actual changes to the character other than us mains?
It would indeed be interesting to see more opinions than just "Make her an alt". It would also be better to see the summary of the requested changes Zero-Soul always makes be that.

I really don't have anything to suggest without looking like I know next to nothing about her. But with that said I don't feel that she need any buffs she doesn't really have any real crippling flaws from what I know of, I don't really see them changing her too much.
And about make her alt. should stop. It's annoying to hear this every time someone talks about Lucina, I don't even care about her and I'm sick of hearing it. It's not going give you an extra character all it going to do is limited the alts. each Marth and Lucina going to have which is something I don't want