The Unofficial Super Smash Bros Balancing Committee- Anything and everything!

[Zerp]

Okay, so I'm on my phone and well, my isp is not being cooperative. Not guaranteed but I don't think I'll be able to update today without proper internet. Dont expect anything today. Sorry.

 

[Zerp]

Since I managed to get my internet back up and running, I'm actually able to post the results, so here's the results for Ike https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1Mfx67Vat-A6FQrnoWNLwXS2lRojKfxNhAjMr0bdkV0Y/viewanalytics
About Ike, I was honestly a bit peeved when Ike got buffs last patch, I think he's got more than enough love.

and here's Greninja's poll http://goo.gl/forms/vMGq9c8XzF

Tomorrow we'll vote on which characters to do next. Sorry for the lateness, but I can't really help my internet being down.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Greninja has often felt like an unsafe fighter. A lot of its offensive attacks involve direct attacks, and its sneakiest attacks don't stay sneaky for long once you've figured out how to deal with them. Also, Substitute is arguably the worst Counter move, as it can be interrupted, which doesn't happen with anyone else (not even Palutena).

Yes, Greninja is speedy and can rack up damage, but its offense isn't so hot when compared to most other fighters, especially when you have to resort to sweetspotted smash attacks to make your KOs. And of course, you can't hold Water Shuriken's charge.

 

[MarioMeteor]

Greninja should have his ability to shield taken away.

 

[realmwars]

Despite all the "Better nerf Greninja" jokes going around it actually hurts me to see him ever getting nerfed after the unnecessary changes made to him in the first place. Honestly, I didn't even think he was that OP to begin with. He had a lot of tricks and clever moves, sure but nothing I'd consider too good. At once point I was actually considering maining Greninja, but I just couldn't get anywhere with him, but I have so much fun playing him I have him as a secondary pick. These are just a few ideas for how I think Greninja could be better as a character, agree or disagree but this is just coming from someone who if I ever get better with him would love to have him as a main.

Cancel into Shadow Sneak: Shadow Sneak is one of Greninja's coolest specials, and I really love the concept of it. It can be used as a short recovery option, mind game tools, it can be used as an escape option, and it can be used to fake out your opponent. Sadly, despite the name being "Shadow Sneak" it's one of his more predictable moves. Bright, colorful stages don't compliment this move much since you can SEE the shadow move while using it, making it easy to block and punish.

As far as I know (I haven't tried it yet with the current patches) Greninja CAN use shadow sneak while taunting, which is a pretty neat mind game set up. So that gave me an idea of, what if you could cancel your rapid jab into Shadow Sneak? It might cause a tiny nerf in it's power but it'd be great in controlling where your opponent goes. Or hey, why stop at jabs? Greninja is a ninja right? Ninjas tend to use their skills of espionage to deceive their opponents right? How about Shadow Sneak cancel from Water Shurikan? Make someone think you're going to use Water Shurikan, and suddenly BAM you do Shadow Sneak instead.

Counter ignores shield: I can agree with Mario & Sonic guy. Greninja's counter while it's cool and clever, SUCKS! It doesn't happen immediately. Greninja disappears leaving behind a log or a substitution doll, and after half a second he then reappears from any direction you input. That half a second is enough time for anyone to shield for the oncoming attack. Making a move that has pretty good kill power not very useful. So maybe if like Mac's KO punch let's make it so Greninja's counter just doesn't believe in shields and beat up people anyway. It's another way to punish people who shield too much instead of relying on other means of being defensive. If Charizard and the Jolly Jiggler have moves that can punish bad rolling habits, why not let the ninja frog have a move that punishes bad shielding habits?

Grab has slight pull: The guy uses a whirl pool as his grab. So why doesn't it suck people towards him? Besides, Greninja doesn't exactly have a lot of good throws to begin with. Everything except for his down throw is more so a get off me option instead of a kill option. Plus since his down throw is a good way to start combos, it'd give him an option to start getting those combos started. Now I'm not saying it should pull you in from all the way on the other side of the screen, that'd be ridiculous. However, I think it would make a player think a bit before trying to approach Greninja, since his grab could pull you in if you carelessly got too close.

These are all I can really think of. There's not too much I can think of that can make Greninja a better character since he's not completely out of his luck and still has some pretty good set ups and tools. Let me know what you guys think.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I don't know enough about Greninja to give any input (except for the fact that you can meteor smash opponents with your counter is so freaking awesome!), but I think what realmwars suggested is really cool an-

Greninja should have his ability to shield taken away.

...Get out.



(I'm kidding of course)

 

[MarioMeteor]

(I'm kidding of course)

Well, somebody had to do it.

 

[L9999]

Greninja really wants that crappy grab and counter fixed. Then again, is inconsistent and requires player perfection (like, 9B perfection) to do anything crazy; I'm sure those 0-to-death combos are hard to do and learn, specially with Greninja being so slippery. But like , a broken mess might result of buffing him too much or wrongly, because a 9B for can happen and Greninja still has those 0-deaths. And right now Greninja is doing fine. He has players istudying, Some, aMSa, (people say they play again), and Venia or however you write it. He is just underrated and pissed on thanks to the stupid memes and .

By the way, I'm working on an update on the balance notes due to changes, some typos and mistakes, and missing characters.

 

[Zerp]

Greninja's results--> https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1v0XaKw_85CJKdyfi7jQCttZ9Ixn2_Jtj2lHiyj_3DXw/viewanalytics
Okay, so, for today, all you has to do is vote righty here ---> http://goo.gl/forms/4dJ6b7jDre
It's on whether you'd rather we go with the rest of the characters first, or the cut veterans.
I'm personally going for the cut veterans.
Edit: I'm seeing a lot of votes here that weren't on the poll, no need to worry though, since there's so many votes here and not there, I'll count both the poll and the thread's votes, seems fair .

 

[L9999]

Cut veterans would be fun. Want to know opiniones regarding .

 

[Deleted member]

Cut veterans would be fun. Want to know opiniones regarding .

Agreed. Cut veterans please.

If so, I vote for the .

 

[Furret24]

Cut veterans would be fun. Want to know opiniones regarding .

Here's what everyone would basically say.

"**** Chaingrabs."

Being serious though, I think we should do cut veterans first.

I vote .
If we do Smash 4 characters instead, I vote .

 

[MarioMeteor]

I vote Wolf.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Since we are probably going to be talking about the cut veterans next, here are two things to consider:

• Since we are moving characters from game to another, we can change moves as long as we keep the core of what the character is. (Think Pit, Zelda, and Sheik from Brawl to 3Ds/Wii U.)
  
• Since we are going to talk about the Ice Climbers, we should pretend like in-game switching is still possible, and discuss the Pokémon Trainer as well. (But if not I can talk about him when we talk about Squirtle or something.)

I vote Pichu, but I'll be happy with anyone except Wolf. (He's the only one I don't have anything to talk about.)

 

[L1N3R1D3R]

If cut veterans, voting . If the rest of the characters, voting .

 

[realmwars]

If cut veterans, voting . If the rest of the characters, voting .

SNAAAAAKE! I MISS YOU SO MUCH!!!

 

[Zerp]

Okay, so today's schedule is kind of crazy, so I hope you all don't mind but I'll have to tally up the votes at 2:45 CET instead of the normal time. Also, since I didn't do it earlier, I vote for vets, and for the rest.
Edit: Forgot to list the timezone lol, that ought to have been misleading.

 

[Wintermelon43]

Okay, so today's schedule is kind of crazy, so I hope you all don't mind but I'll have to tally up the votes at 2:45 instead of the normal time. Also, since I didn't do it earlier, I vote for vets, and for the rest.

By this point, After the normal time is the new normal.

 

[Zerp]

Despite the rest of the characters having more votes on the poll, overall the cut veterans won, so we're doing them.
And Ice Climbers won, so today's there day. Here's their poll http://goo.gl/forms/iph3s01Oj6
The poll's really optional (well it normally is, but you know what I mean) since, well, these are hypothetical characters, it's up to interpretation how they'd play in Smash U. Just discuss whatever you want about the character, stuff like how you think they'd change or what kind of changes they should get, both of those are fine, in fact, I'm going to be doing both for the Icies, so yeah, just talk about whatever you want, as long as it's about the character and balance in some degree.
Have fun!

 

[Green Zelda]

Despite the rest of the characters having more votes on the poll, overall the cut veterans won, so we're doing them.
And Ice Climbers won, so today's there day. Here's their poll http://goo.gl/forms/iph3s01Oj6
The poll's really optional (well it normally is, but you know what I mean) since, well, these are hypothetical characters, it's up to interpretation how they'd play in Smash U. Just discuss whatever you want about the character, stuff like how you think they'd change or what kind of changes they should get, both of those are fine, I'm going to be doing both for the Icies, but just talk about whatever you want, as long as it's about the character and balance in some degree.
Have fun!

So, when it asks if they should be buffed or nerfed, should we think about their brawl version?

 

[Wintermelon43]

They woudn't be able to have their chaingrabs, so they would suck horribly unless they were given much more tools.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I can't really make any comments for fighters who are not in Smash 3DS / Wii U, but the chain-grab removal can pretty much hurt the Ice Climbers with how they can build up damage.

 

[Zerp]

So, when it asks if they should be buffed or nerfed, should we think about their brawl version?

That's a pretty good question, I should have been more clear on which Ice Climbers were the ones I'm talking about, I didn't really give any hints, whoops. But yeah, the ones we're talking about are the Brawl version of them. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[Deleted member]

YAS

Chillingly Cool Duo

There's no doubt in my mind the Ice Climbers would've gotten the nerf hammer in the transition to Smash 4. Almost every oppressive force in Brawl was neutered to varying degrees (, ,,,,,) so I imagine the ICs would follow suit. They'd lose the largest asset of their competitive success in Brawl: their 0-death infinite chaingrab. Since chaingrabs are nonexistent in Smash 4, this'd change their gameplan significantly. I'd imagine desyncs would remain intact since it's an integral part of their teamwork gimmick, but them not being able to wobble you like in Melee or 0-death you in Brawl would make them more fair and balanced to compete in Smash 4's environment. For when they return, I came up with a way to rebalance them to compensate for the loss of their chaingrabbing abilities, centering them around their grab game similar to their Project M incarnation and giving them other improvements.

• Squall Hammer can be charged when grounded, giving it greater damage, distance and knockback depending on how long side-B is held. A smashed version similar to 's Skull Bash is optional.
• Ice Shot reworked. Although the move works the same like it did in previous games, you can grab the ice blocks as they're sliding across the ground, giving Popo and Nana access to improved stage control. The ice blocks dissapate on shield and melt away when thrown at somebody after one use.
• Air speed increased (0.7708 -> 0.85). This'd make recovery for the two easier and improve their aerial game quite a bit, especially with how good of a walling move back air is.
• Walking and running speeds increased slightly.
• All smashes have slightly increased startup and ending lag, while dealing more damage and knockback from Brawl to compensate.
• Down tilt pops opponents upwards, making it prime for starting aerial combos.
• The two have a new up special, Condor. They hold onto a Condor which flies them upwards similar to their entrance animation, or 's Flying Pikmin and 's Balloon Trip. This makes it much safer for the duo to be offstage! However, it makes them lose the potent OoS killing option they had in Belay.
• Up tilt now properly connects all hits when in contact with an opponent due to the removal of hitstun cancelling.
• Up air reworked into a multihit move, similar to 's up air. Not only would this make a great juggle tool, but they could possible FF it into regrabs like Dedede can!
• Throws reworked. Back throw and forward throw can now KO solidly at the ledge, up throw and down throw still retain their low knockback, making them good combo starters.
• Down air no longer a stall then fall. It's now a downwards whack that serves as a meteor smash in the first few frames, having sex kick properties similar to 's dair that make it a good landing or edgeguarding option.
• Blizzard does more shield damage, and can shield stab. It no longer can freeze opponents until over 100%.

So yeah that's what I've got. I vote for .

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Here is my input on the Ice Climbers.

• The rage mechanic would help Sopo a bit since it would give him the extra power needed to KO on his own.
• Belay would have two versions of the move. If you have both Popo and Nana, this works like in Brawl, if you just have Popo or Nana, the lone Ice Climber will throw the string to tether back on stage. If the solo Ice Climber is on the ground, then he or she will throw the rope up, and any opponents that get hit by it are grabbed. (So you literally just yank them out of the air.)
  
• I can't remember if Squall Hammer made the Ice Climbers helpless or not, but if it did then make it not do that.
• Instead of the OP Chain Grabs, they should have something similar that allows for combos. Let's call it a combo throw. You could pull off combos from a throw using both Ice Climbers that are harder to pull off, but are rewarding without being OP. (Ex. Popo's Down Throw to Nana's Meteor Smash Forward Areal, to Popo's Belay to Down Throw, to Nana's Up Areal.) The potential throw combos would be percent specific, but the amount of available combos would be enough to have one at any percent except kill percents. (This would probably also make De-syncing a bit easier.)

I vote for my Melee main .

 

[L9999]

IC without chaingrabs? Let's give it a shot.

Slightly better air speed (0.77 to 0.79). Improved, but still bad, since Ice Climbers were meant to have bad air mobility to reflect IC.
Give Squall Hammer more vertical distance with less mashing.
I agree with the Condor idea despite it going against IC's original design. Certain characters in particular don't give a damn about anyone being offstage, and the Nana would get so EASILY gimped with Belay it's not worth it.
Smash Attacks are stronger than in Brawl.
Up Tilt now connects better.
Down Tilt now a combo starter.
Side Tilt unchanged I guess. It's a good GTFO option....
Down Air no longer being a stall then fall. This move got me killed a lot because it doesn't look like a S-T-F. Also, IC struggle to land in the first place.
The other aerials are fine. They are decently strong (Uair, Bair, Fair, in theory they would be good with rage) and Nair is a decent burst option.

Now the big one, GRABS.
Since hitstun cancelling is out, I think D-Throw and U-Throw could combo into other move just fine. Example: 's throws are identical to Brawl but because there is no hitstun cancelling they can combo. Back Throw shouldn't be a** like Kamui's and actually do something, like comboing into Bair or something. Next, either make F-Throw a tech chasing grab like G&W's D-Throw from Brawl, or a kill throw, since it looks like one, but since IC can kill with just grabbing and charging an U-Smash, I think a kill throw is unnecesary.

 

[Furret24]

There's no doubt in my mind the Ice Climbers would've gotten the nerf hammer in the transition to Smash 4. Almost every oppressive force in Brawl was neutered to varying degrees (, ,,,,,) so I imagine the ICs would follow suit.

I'd hardly call Game and Watch an "oppressive force" in Brawl. He still had a few major weakness that held him back. There's a reason he's only 16th on Brawl's current tier list.

Which is the main reason why i'm sad that he was one of the most nerfed characters in the transition from Brawl to Smash 4.

 

[Yoshister]

I know nothing about the Icies, so I'll just say we should discuss Pichu tomorrow.

 

[Zerp]

Here's the Ice Climbers results, https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1OPTveYURHtd0_4a9VklZ75y7-8tZcqu5kIPNge6HuAQ/viewanalytics

And here's Pichu's poll http://goo.gl/forms/I94H4MNsq9

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Yay Pichu! Here are my thoughts on my favorite Smash character:

• The new rage mechanic will help Pichu a lot because of his self-damaging mechanic.
• First: give Pichu better range. This can be done easily by using his giant ears, and making his tail extremely elastic.
• Pichu's Forward Tilt should be changed to Signal Beam to increase range.
• Pichu's Up Tilt should take his Up Smash animation from Melee.
• Pichu's Forward Areal should be changed to Rain Dance (He spins around and a small raincloud rains in front of him, damaging opponents.) so it doesn't hurt Pichu. It also has more range, and has some slight disjoint.
• Pichu's Back Areal should be changed to a kick of electricity. This hurts him for 4%, but has Ganondorf tier KO power.
• Pichu's Down Areal should be changes to a stall-and-fall simmilar to Greninja's so it doesn't hurt Pichu.
• Pichu's Smash Attacks should all be electric based, the Forward Smash is pretty much the same, but does more damage to Pichu and opponents alike. The Up Smash fires electricity straight up, does much more damage to both Pichu and opponents, and the Down Smash has Pichu attacking with electricity all around him, dealing major damage to opponents, and a fair bit of damage to Pichu. All three of these Smash Attacks have Ganondorf Tier KO power.
• Pichu's pummel, and throws have been adjusted so that they don't use electricity (Unless you want to give Pichu a kill throw).
• Pichu's Thunder Jolt should be changed to something entirely different. My suggestion is Volt Switch. Pichu fires a ball of electricity at the opponent (Which does 3% to Pichu), if this projectile connects with the opponent, Pichu will switch places with it. The switch deals 5% to Pichu. I think this move could easily mess up opponents, and create some interesting offstage play. Also, the ball of electricity that Volt Switch produces is as big as Pichu (so it would also be roughly the size of Olimar, and Kirby as well if you need a visual comparrison.).
• Skull Bash and Agility are fixed so they don't hurt Pichu.
• Thunder has more KO power if it hits Pichu, but it also deals 4% to Pichu.
• Last but not least: Pichu's final Smash should be either Bide, which is more dangerous the more damage Pichu has taken, or some kinda Volt Tackle move that instantly KOs all hit opponents as well as Pichu.

With these changes, I think Pichu could be a speedy damage racking character with a pretty good time killing as long as he is accurate with his more powerful attacks. Any feedback on this is appreciated.

EDIT: Oh! I almost forgot! I vote .

 

[FamilyTeam]

...I do'nt know what to do with Pichu.
I think his design philosophy is that he's simply not supposed to be good. He's a joke character, a nerfed Pikachu, because, you know, that's what actual Pichus are like. You don't see a kitten killing things better than a 5 year old adult cat. You could do a lot to make him good, but that'd make no sense at all.
I know this series doesn't give a toss about properly representing characters (, and depending on who you are, , along many others), but I don't think they could go too far with buffing Pichu. Maybe they could make all of his move have slightly more kill power than in Melee, damage him less and make them have less lag than Pikachu's, but that's it.

 

[L9999]

Now, how to fix a trash tier character?
First all, how mechanics would clash with Pichu. No wavedashing and nerfed dashdancing could be a hidrance to Pichu. No edgehogging and bigger ledges mean he can recover much safely. Rage can bite Pichu really hard like . While Pichu could no longer chaingrab fastfallers with U-Throw, Pichu himself could not be chain-thrown to death, but still obviously die to kill throws. Reduction to SDI mean Pichu's multihits should connect better.

Next, attributes. As all might know already, Pichu's are complete garbage. Extremely low weight, self damage, and garbage range on everything. Now, because self damage is Pichu's gimmicks it should stay. So, how to make Pichu (kinda) work?

1. Weight (55 to 68). If Jigglypuff struggles with 68, 55 is IMPOSSIBLE with Rage and Pichu's pathetic range.
2. Lower traction. Because why not?
3. Range increase by cartoonish animations like Diddy Kong's. It would still be Puff/Ness tier but not being complete garbage.
4. Inspired from Melee SD Remix. Thunder Jolt, Agility and Skull Bash no longer inflict self damage. Having your main zoning/annoyance tool do damage to yourself is extremely crippling, as well as your recovery options. Oh, by the way Sakurai, SKULL BASH IS A NORMAL TYPE MOVE AND AGILITY IS A PSYCHIC TYPE MOVE, FOLLOWING YOUR LOGIC, THEY SHOULDN'T DAMAGE PICHU!!!!!!! (sorry, RPG nitpicker here).
5. Thunder only doing damage to Pichu if the lightning bolt hits him. It's more logical that way.
6. Jab and Side Tilt down tripping. Since there was no tripping in Melee, might as well make some of Pichu's attacks trip.
7. All tilts having range increase courtesy of number 3.
8. Down Smash sending at a semi-spike angle. Cause why not?
9. Side Smash (in theory) should connect all hits to kill like Zelda's Side Smash. Fine as it is.
10. Up Smash is good as it is.
11. Aerial landing lag should be similar landing lag with L-cancel from Melee.
12. Uair and Nair are fine as they are.
13. Fair should work like Fair. For a Smash 4 example see Bair.
14. Another reference, Bair should be an outward single hit with a lot of KO power.
    
15. Dair connecting better and having a meteor at the end.
16. Grab range increase. It's COMPLETE garbage, it needs to be better.
17. Pummel now quick heabutts like to not punish Pichu for pummeling.
18. I think his throws are fine.

I vote .

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I have a few things that I can say for Pichu to help make it a bit better.

• To maintain its status as the lightest fighter, Pichu's weight would only be increased to 60.
• Raise Pichu's walk speed to 1.3, rivaling Donkey Kong's walk speed.
• Raise Pichu's run speed to 1.835; it'll run faster than Diddy Kong, while still having weaker running speed than Pikachu.
• Raise Pichu's air speed to 1.
• Lower Pichu's falling speed to 1.25.

As for special move changes...

• Standard - Charge Beam: Pichu charges up a beam of electricity. The longer it's charged, the more powerful the beam, but as it grows stronger, Pichu will take damage upon releasing the attack. There are 7 Charge Beam stages total, and it takes 2 seconds to charge up each stage; 14 seconds total to reach stage 7. The charge can't be held, however, and it will be released immediately if stage 7 is reached.
  • Stage 1: Deals up to 3% damage, and Pichu doesn't take any damage. Has no knockback at all, nor can it make anyone flinch.
  • Stage 2: Deals up to 6% damage, and Pichu takes 1% damage. Has almost negligible knockback.
  • Stage 3: Deals up to 9% damage, and Pichu takes 2% damage. Has very low knockback.
  • Stage 4: Deals up to 12% damage, and Pichu takes 3% damage. Has low knockback.
  • Stage 5: Deals up to 15% damage, and Pichu takes 4% damage. Has moderate knockback.
  • Stage 6: Deals up to 18% damage, and Pichu takes 5% damage. Has high knockback.
  • Stage 7: Deals up to 36% damage, and Pichu takes 10% damage. Has very high knockback.
• Side - Reversal: A direct attack that'll deal more damage and knockback as Pichu's current damage increases. The attack's reach isn't large, however, and it takes a while to execute, which can make it a risky move to use if Pichu's damage is high. However, this attack can potentially work to Pichu's advantage in a Sudden Death match.
  • 0% - 10% damage: Reversal deals up to 2% damage, and offers negligible knockback.
  • 11% - 30% damage: Reversal deals up to 5% damage, and offers very low knockback.
  • 31% - 50% damage: Reversal deals up to 8% damage, and offers low knockback.
  • 51% - 70% damage: Reversal deals up to 13% damage, and offers moderate knockback.
  • 71% - 100% damage: Reversal deals up to 17% damage, and offers high knockback.
  • 101% - 150% damage: Reversal deals up to 21% damage, and offers very high knockback.
  • 151% - 999% damage: Reversal deals up to 30% damage, and offers massive knockback.
• Up - Wild Charge: Pichu charges forward while engulfed in electricity. The player can control the angle of the attack, and can deliver multiple weak hits on opposing fighters; each hit deals up to 2% damage, with the final hit dealing up to 13% damage and higher knockback. The attack travels in about the same distance as Pikachu's Quick Feet custom special move, but it's slower in movement, and Pichu does take 5% damage if it uses the move. The move leaves Pichu helpless when it's finished.
• Down - Thunder: Operates in the same manner as Pikachu's Thunder, but the lightning deals multiple weak hits, instead of one strong hit, and Pichu will take 3% damage if it's hit by the lightning bolt that it summoned. The shockwave hitbox that's created when the lightning hits Pichu can actually deliver more knockback than Pikachu's version, however, which makes up for the damage penalty.

Final Smash...

• Volt Tackle: Pichu's version of Volt Tackle is less powerful than Pikachu's version, but it's much easier to control. Upon hitting an opponent, the attack can deliver multiple weaks hits, with each hit dealing up to 3% damage. The Final Smash lasts up to 15 seconds, and upon its completion, Pichu will create a electrical explosion that deals up to 32% damage, and delivers massive knockback on anyone who was caught in the middle of the explosion. Interestingly, this move does not damage Pichu at all, despite being one of the strongest Electric-type attacks in existence.

Edit: Custom special move inputs.

• Charge Beam
  • Fast Beam: Takes less time to reach full power, but deals less damage overall than the standard Charge Beam. Each stage takes 1 second to charge.
    • Stage 1: Deals up to 1% damage, and Pichu doesn't take any damage. Has no knockback at all, nor can it make anyone flinch.
    • Stage 2: Deals up to 3% damage, and Pichu doesn't take any damage. Has negligible knockback.
    • Stage 3: Deals up to 5% damage, and Pichu takes 1% damage. Has almost negligible knockback.
    • Stage 4: Deals up to 7% damage, and Pichu takes 1% damage. Has very low knockback.
    • Stage 5: Deals up to 9% damage, and Pichu takes 2% damage. Has low knockback.
    • Stage 6: Deals up to 11% damage, and Pichu takes 2% damage. Has moderate knockback.
    • Stage 7: Deals up to 22% damage, and Pichu takes 5% damage. Has high knockback.
  • Power Beam: Takes longer to reach full power, but deals greater damage than the standard Charge Beam. Each stage takes 3 seconds to charge.
    • Stage 1: Deals up to 5% damage, and Pichu takes 1% damage. Has almost negligible knockback.
    • Stage 2: Deals up to 8% damage, and Pichu takes 2% damage. Has very low knockback.
    • Stage 3: Deals up to 14% damage, and Pichu takes 3% damage. Has low knockback.
    • Stage 4: Deals up to 19% damage, and Pichu takes 5% damage. Has moderate knockback.
    • Stage 5: Deals up to 23% damage, and Pichu takes 8% damage. Has high knockback.
    • Stage 6: Deals up to 36% damage, and Pichu takes 10% damage. Has very high knockback.
    • Stage 7: Deals up to 50% damage, and Pichu takes 20% damage. Has massive knockback.
• Reversal
  • Speedy Reversal: Executes faster than the standard Reversal, but packs less power as a drawback.
    • 0% - 10% damage: Reversal deals up to 1% damage, and offers negligible knockback.
    • 11% - 30% damage: Reversal deals up to 3% damage, and offers almost negligible knockback.
    • 31% - 50% damage: Reversal deals up to 5% damage, and offers very low knockback.
    • 51% - 70% damage: Reversal deals up to 9% damage, and offers low knockback.
    • 71% - 100% damage: Reversal deals up to 13% damage, and offers moderate knockback.
    • 101% - 150% damage: Reversal deals up to 17% damage, and offers high knockback.
    • 151% - 999% damage: Reversal deals up to 21% damage, and offers very high knockback.
  • Sturdy Reversal: Takes longer to attack than the standard Reversal, but Pichu is given super armor during the startup time period.
• Wild Charge
  • Quick Charge: Travels faster than the standard Wild Charge. Doesn't damage Pichu at all, but it can't deal any damage either.
  • Power Charge: Travels half as far as the standard Wild Charge, and travels slower. It packs even more power, however, dealing up to 18% damage, and delivering high knockback on anyone who gets hit. The damage penalty is also increased, however, as Pichu will take 10% damage if it uses the move.
• Thunder
  • Thunder Burst: Pichu's version deals more damage and greater knockback than Pikachu's version, but Pichu will take 6% damage if it uses the move.
  • Distant Thunder: Pichu's version delivers stronger multiple hits near the cloud. Pichu only takes 1% damage if the lightning bolt hits it.

 

[Zerp]

I was going to say something for Pichu since he is my secondary, something something blablabla make him faster, blablabla maker him stronger, but I'm really not in a mood for explaining things right now.
Here's Pichu's results https://docs.google.com/forms/d/17DeQKqYpPfidzjUv3jgxAdTmIyzZV6U379ErOL-z0Ag/viewanalytics and here's the poll for Wolf: http://goo.gl/forms/xYYoz45txE

 

[n8han11]

Y'know, would probably work fine in Smash 4. Chaingrabs have been pretty much removed, and they were the only real weakness had. He could probably work pretty well with the kind of changes everyone got in general.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Now Wolf is someone whom I wanted to bring up myself. First up would be attribute changes...

• Increase Wolf's air speed to 1.24, rivaling Roy.
• Increase Wolf's walk speed to 1.43, rivaling Greninja, while still walking slower than Fox.
• Increase Wolf's run speed to 1.63, rivaling Duck Hunt, while still running slower than Rosalina.
• Increase Wolf's falling speed to 2, making him the second fastest faller.
• Increase Wolf's gravity to 0.15, being tied with Sheik.
• Wolf's ground jumps would still be as high as Sonic's ground jumps.
• Wolf's weight would stay at 102, being tied with Shulk and Mega Man.
• Wolf's air acceleration would be set at 0.03.

Wolf would also maintain his special moves, but in terms of Wolf Flash, it would no longer leave him helpless. As for custom variants...

• Blaster
  • Paralyzing Blaster: Fires a short-ranged blast that can't be reflected or absorbed. The blast paralyzes anyone who's hit, and the bayonet can still deal damage before the blast is fired.
  • Piercing Blaster: Fires a laser that can pass through multiple targets, but it deals less damage and knockback than the standard Blaster. The bayonet's damage output is unaffected.
• Wolf Flash
  • Wolf Burst: The dash does not deal any damage, but an explosion will be made after the move ends, dealing damage to those who are hit. Deals more damage and knockback, but lacks the meteor smash properties that the standard Wolf Flash has. Additionally, Wolf only travels 3/4 the distance of the standard Wolf Flash, and he loses all horizontal momentum after using the move as well, which hinders its recovery potential.
  • Wolf Phase: Travels 25% farther than the standard Wolf Flash, but it doesn't deal any damage. Wolf won't take any damage while dashing, and he maintains some horizontal momentum after using the move, making it more effective for recovery than the other Wolf Flash variations.
• Fire Wolf
  • Blazing Wolf: Gives Wolf's kicks fire effects, enabling him to deal more damage than normal, with the final kick delivering high knockback if it connects. However, the move doesn't travel as far as the standard Fire Wolf (0.8x), and it halts Wolf's horizontal momentum upon ending.
  • Fast Fire Wolf: Executes quicker and travels farther (1.1x) than the standard Fire Wolf, but the kicks deal much less damage and knockback than normal. Wolf maintains some of his horizontal momentum after using the move, but he'll still enter a helpless state.
• Reflector
  • Absorbing Reflector: Absorbs projectiles instead of reflecting them. Wolf heals 50% of the damage that he would've taken from the projectiles, and it can't deal any damage. Only works on absorbable projectiles, however.
  • Amplifying Reflector: Reflected projectiles deal more damage than the standard Reflector (2.34x), but their initial speed boost is less powerful (1.08x). The startup lag and ending lag are also increased, and the reflector isn't able to deal any direct damage.

 

[Zerp]

All I ask for is for his recovery to be improved, that ledge sweet-spot could stand to be a bit bigger. Everything else about him is fine imo.

Anyways, I got a bit of news, turns out that due to the time I'll be landing in Scotland, it's going to be impossible for me to upload the results on time, so yeah, it's going to have to be late tomorrow. Again. Sorry about that, it's late far too often. I think I'm going to end up changing the time I update daily to something that'll work better after the next update, this time we have set clearly isn't working.

 

[Zerp]

Surprise surprise, I'm not actually in Scotland, there's a problem with my Visa, so I can actually update it on time.

Here's Wolf's results: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1gwklHjBYdiATPg8zgwnowJj3KbCZRqfumTMxnI2GAAo/viewanalytics

And here's Young Link's poll http://goo.gl/forms/QTuvXzx7ak

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Here are my suggestions for Young Link:

• Because Young Link is wrongly labeled as a worse version of Toon Link, he's going to need some more things to distinguish him from Toon Link, and Link.
• First off, his shield still doesn't block strong projectiles, however, he will have his shield up as long as he is not attacking, or in the animation of his double jump. (His shield will be raised as soon as Young Link stops flipping.
  
• Young Link's Neutral Attack will keep it's infinite, but a finisher will be added to the move.
• Forward Smash is now a single stab, aiding in his KO power. As a side note, Young Link will raise his shield when charging up this move.
• Down Smash is now his Spin Attack, and does an even amount of damage on both sides.
  
• His Dash Attack is the skull splitter technique from Twilight Princess. (because why not?) He flips over the opponent (assuming he is standing next to it) while attacking downward. This can meteor smash opponents, allowing for some edgegaurding.
• The first hit of Young Link's Forward Areal is lower, allowing for an easier time comboing it with the second hit, which can now KO. However, it is easier to punish if you miss the second hit.
• Young Link has a new Back Throw, he turns around and slashes the opponent. This is a KO throw.
  
• Fire Bow sets the ground on fire when the arrow lands, allowing for combos if an opponent steps on it.
• Young Link's Up special is now the Song of Time. Young Link quickly plays the 6 notes required to play the Song of Time, and teleports upward. You can influence the direction any way you like, so you have more freedom on where you want to go. This recovery isn't the best, but it is better than the Spin Attack.
• Bombs now hit a couple of times before launching, allowing for combos. However, they do a lot less damage.
• Young Link has the Fierce Deity as his transformation Final Smash.

For my last change, I propose that Young Link have useful taunts. By taunting, Young Link would be able to transform into the Deku, Goron, and Zora Links. (Down Taunt for Deku Link, Side Taunt for Goron Link, and Up Taunt for Zora Link.) On the character select screen Young Link would have the three masks around his head, and you could turn off the ability to switch by tapping on Young Link. The masks should black out. To play as the other Links, tap on the mask you want (tapping a couple times will result in that form being the center of attention, and the other forms being blacked out).
This could be done for all switching characters (except they would have their portraits on the CSS instead of being represented as masks.), and this is how I see the Pokémon Trainer returning without making people mad.

EDIT: I vote

 

[Zerp]

Hey fellas, it's that time of the day again.
Here's Young Link's results
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1uOpHxwXYLU-Ts7YDbW7C2JXPY8-QFD3iHBX0_aLsCZE/viewanalytics
And here's Squirtle's poll ---> http://goo.gl/forms/Xc3mEbE0zX
EDIT: I almost forgot, here's the fine individuals you can still vote for .