The Unofficial Super Smash Bros Balancing Committee- Anything and everything!

[Zerp]

Literally the Miis, Link, Lucas and Shulk are the only characters worth talking about there. The rest are perfectly viable characters.

Makes sense, people chiefly voted for characters they wanted to see buffs for but now we're out of characters that most people want buffs for, and these are all middle of the road kind of characters, so for characters that people want to see nerfs, AKA characters people want to talk about, we're probably going to have to wait till the higher ups have their turn. If I can say so myself, it's going to be bit of a boring period.
If any of you ladies and gentlemen have any ideas on how to either spice it up a bit, or want me to change the rules, please speak up, I'll listen, I don't want to bore you all to death.

Anyways , I'm voting , I'm completely astonished he hasn't gone yet. He's a contender for worst character in the game, and honestly, I think he is the worst.

 

[L9999]

Already gave my impressions on Mii Brawler. He is trash, but can be tweaked to work in 1111. But massive tweaks, not just making those trash specials work.

 

[L1N3R1D3R]

Besides his awful recovery without Limit Break, the one weakness he has is trouble killing without Limit Break. His smash attacks are just a bit too weak or slow to be useful, his spiking moves aren't good, and his back air has odd range. Really his only functional non-LB kill move is up air. He's really good, though, so he doesn't need this to be improved.

Vote for .

 

[valakmtnsmash4]

Lol
I thought this thread was dead, but Im happy that it isnt.
Nice buffs compilation! L9999
I dont think that cloud needs much, maybe some throw followups.
I vote

 

[Furret24]

I think Cloud's also perfectly viable, I wouldn't change anything about him, honestly, if he got buffed I think he'd be at risk of ending up broken.

I hate doing this, but, you can't vote for Corrin right now, sorry. He, Bayonetta and everyone else we didn't vote on yet will be eligible after we get through these guys ---> (). Sorry.


These guys
()

Thank you.

I vote .

 

[GanonMain]

I vote for . he may be viable, but the froggo has some problems, even if recent patches have been acing inverse to the early ones (you know what i mean... BNG)

 

[L9999]

Lol
I thought this thread was dead, but Im happy that it isnt.
Nice buffs compilation! L9999
I dont think that cloud needs much, maybe some throw followups.
I vote

LOL, I thought the same. And thanks for the comment on the compilation. Took a lot of time.

 

[Zerp]

I apologize for the slight delay, I had some things I needed to take care of.
Anyways Cloud's day is over and for once the RNG picked what I wanted
here's Cloud's results: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1odDytVFkJrPw_u_csBDo1qc5mwBtxPYv7au5nj8pcts/viewanalytics
And here's Mii Brawler's poll for today: http://goo.gl/forms/71TJyX83K8
Here's who you all can vote for --->
I'll speak my piece on brawler in a bit, I have some pretty strong opinions on the character.
Edit: Cloud, not Clud, silly me.

 

[L9999]

I vote .

 

[Zerp]

Wow, I forgot to open the poll, whoops, that's kind of a massive mistake, sorry.

Okay, so for Mii Brawler, I think his viability changes depending on the ruleset, ranging from, with Mii customs enabled, Brawler is a upper-low tier character in my opinion, to being, without Mii customs, the character I see as the absolute worst in the entire game. (Luckily, Mii customs are allowed here in Germany, so no, I don't think Mii Brawler's the worst in the game over here, just internationally)

Either way, regardless of what ruleset you use, there are plenty of things that I feel could use some fixing, but I'm going to base my stuff off of 1111 Brawler because that's the weakest form of the character.
So, what I'd like to see is:

Spoiler

• Reduced start up, end lag, and just overall quicker ↑ B.
• Minor quip but, fix Neutral B's hitbox, the ball even when not bouncing should do damage.
• Make Bair and Uair stronger
• Make ↓ B not useless, somehow, I don't know how .
• To lessen how easy he is to gimp, give → B the ability to be angled and make it not put Mii brawler in a helpless state so he can B then ↑ B to recover.

I vote

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I can't really say much about the Mii fighters since I really don't use them very much.

Truthfully, I just put the Miis in their own tier, regardless of how bad they might be in the competitive scene.

 

[L9999]

To quote myself on how to fix Mii Brawler default moves.

Shot Put has a hitbox until a ball disappears and the knockback is horizontal. For how sluggish it is at least it should be a good edgeguarding tool and not one that doesn't work.

Not in the OP notes but Onslaught should connect better and not falling to helpless after hitting someone.

SAK needs to gran the edge backwards, the spike being consistent throughout the descent, and being able to input minor horizontal distance. This makes it like Swordfighters Up B, in which the gimmick is spiking after a trump or something along those lines.

Down B. All the buffs I wrote about Up B, because they are the same move basically. I could add being able to break shields, because the move is sluggish and has no range anyways.

 

[realmwars]

Frame 1 one 3 jab: Since Palutena is best played as a defense character and her neutral A is her safest move considering it stops a lot of opponents from approaching and gives nice spacing it only makes sense for the hit box to come out quick.

Frame 1 counter: Her counter is really awkward to use already and the biggest problem is the counter frame doesn't appear until she actually says "counter" meaning its easy to knock her out of the counter before the frames can come up. (Also have her say counter when the move actually triggers. Saying it as you press down-b just seem very impractical.)

Super Armor on her F-Smash and D-Smash: These are pretty good punish tools or if you have a good read on your opponent, and those kind of smash attacks are really great to have to again increase the potential of what Palutena's play style is designed around. Being very defensive and countering opponent's play styles, and her f-smash and d-smash having super armor would make that job easier. I mean if Little Mac, a BOXER can have this for his moves than why not the GODDESS?

Fix u-smash's hit box: The hit box can get rather inconsistent at time. Sometimes I barely touch my opponent and it sends them flying, sometimes they just go through my pillar of light and not take damage at all (and no they don't air dodge it, for some reason I get hit by an attack and my opponent is completely fine.) When the pillar of light touches you, you should be getting damaged. Just saying.

Attack out of Teleport: Palutena is vulnerable when she recovers like a a lot of other characters. However there's SOME characters who doesn't have this issue and can still defend themselves even after recovering. are a few that come to mind. What makes Palutena's case worse though is unlike her warp doesn't inflict damage, which leaves her even more vulnerable. The distance her warp covers is great don't get me wrong, but if she were still able to defend herself when even in the air, she'd be even better in terms of air control.

Auto-reticle longer reach: This is a pressure tool for Palutena, so having wide range should make it even better, because that way Palutena can pressure the opponent from even further away, again maintaining her defense.

Reflect being a wall: Palutena already has a great reflect, but I also feel it should keep opponents from getting close to you. This would force the opponent to take into the air which Palutena could use to set up some air juggles due to her good her air game is. As of now it barely pushes opponents at all. The WIND box on her Smash Attacks do a better job at pushing opponents away, now that's saying something.

 

[Furret24]

Frame 1 one 3 jab: Since Palutena is best played as a defense character and her neutral A is her safest move considering it stops a lot of opponents from approaching and gives nice spacing it only makes sense for the hit box to come out quick.

Frame 1 counter: Her counter is really awkward to use already and the biggest problem is the counter frame doesn't appear until she actually says "counter" meaning its easy to knock her out of the counter before the frames can come up. (Also have her say counter when the move actually triggers. Saying it as you press down-b just seem very impractical.)

Super Armor on her F-Smash and D-Smash: These are pretty good punish tools or if you have a good read on your opponent, and those kind of smash attacks are really great to have to again increase the potential of what Palutena's play style is designed around. Being very defensive and countering opponent's play styles, and her f-smash and d-smash having super armor would make that job easier. I mean if Little Mac, a BOXER can have this for his moves than why not the GODDESS?

Fix u-smash's hit box: The hit box can get rather inconsistent at time. Sometimes I barely touch my opponent and it sends them flying, sometimes they just go through my pillar of light and not take damage at all (and no they don't air dodge it, for some reason I get hit by an attack and my opponent is completely fine.) When the pillar of light touches you, you should be getting damaged. Just saying.

Attack out of Teleport: Palutena is vulnerable when she recovers like a a lot of other characters. However there's SOME characters who doesn't have this issue and can still defend themselves even after recovering. are a few that come to mind. What makes Palutena's case worse though is unlike her warp doesn't inflict damage, which leaves her even more vulnerable. The distance her warp covers is great don't get me wrong, but if she were still able to defend herself when even in the air, she'd be even better in terms of air control.

Auto-reticle longer reach: This is a pressure tool for Palutena, so having wide range should make it even better, because that way Palutena can pressure the opponent from even further away, again maintaining her defense.

Reflect being a wall: Palutena already has a great reflect, but I also feel it should keep opponents from getting close to you. This would force the opponent to take into the air which Palutena could use to set up some air juggles due to her good her air game is. As of now it barely pushes opponents at all. The WIND box on her Smash Attacks do a better job at pushing opponents away, now that's saying something.

I thought we were talking about Brawler.

Can we talk about random characters now?

Can I share my dream changelist I meant to share back when we were discussing him?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Alright! Time to put the Mii Brawler under the microscope! I will attempt to make the Mii Brawler the best he can be at normal height, but not necessarily with 1111 customs. (Oh, and everything will be tested using the same Mii as the base for the tests. I will also be testing on Final Destination.) EDIT: Wow this is a huge wall of texts, I should probably put this in a spoiler box...

Spoiler

First up, his normal moves (He is a guy in his promotional art so i will call him a guy.)
Honestly, the Mii brawler's only bad normal moves are his smash attacks. He has great combo ability, but he can't kill as easily with his only KO moves being his laggy or underpowered smash attacks. His Down Smash doesn't kill until around 130 (and that's on the edge of Final Destination), his Forward smash is really strong but good luck hitting with it, which leaves his Up Smash as his only reliable kill move, making him very predictable. I think the Mii Brawler needs a faster Forward Smash, and a slightly more powerful Up Smash.
Now onto his specials:
Shot Put: I actually like this move, but it is a little on the slow side. If the Mii Brawler threw the shot put just a little bit faster then this move would be great.
Ultimate Uppercut: A chargeable move that kills at 85% when fully charged, but only does 8 damage and has terrible knockback when uncharged. This move is very useful, and is probably the Mii Brawler's only reliable KO Move. My only problem with this move is this: Whoever thought it was a good idea to make this move render you helpless should take a fully charged one of them to the face. It is by no means a recovery move so why is it treated as such?
Exploding Side Kick: A ripoff of Falcon Punch that isn't as flashy, isn't a meme, and is just as useless. This one is beyond help. Next!
Onslaught: This move is OK but it shouldn't render you helpless after a successful hit. If this was fixed, then it could serve as a good KO move if used in the air.
Burning Dropkick: Probably the most unique move in the Mii Brawler's arsenal and is by far the most useful. Uncharged it does 10 damage, and pushes you backward so you don't get punished because of the move's high ending lag. This also has great KO power and is an awesome recovery when fully charged. Having this move would warrant the Mii Brawler to have Soaring Axe Kick as his Up Special.
Headache Maker: Welp...Sorry Burning Dropkick, Headache Maker is much more original, however nowhere near as useful. It can meteor smash recovering opponents if you are careful enough, and can KO if you can get a good enough read, but that's about it. Honestly I think it is fine as is.
Soaring Axe Kick: This move is a ripoff of Kirby's Final Cutter attack, but it doesn't have any redeeming qualities like Final Cutter or Aether. I would only say this move is acceptable for use for balance reasons.
Helecopter Kick: Welcome to Toon Link's Spin Attack. It sucks as a vertical recovery, and OK as a horizontal recovery. I'm pretty sure the only reason you would want this is because of the combos as a small Mii. And as much as I bagged on Soaring Axe Kick this is probably a worse choice as a normal Mii with Burning Dropkick.
Piston Punch: OK, I seriously need to apologize to Soaring Axe Kick. Because you know what I don't think of when I give anyone a moveset? A ripoff of Little Mac's Rising Uppercut. Except what Rising Uppercut lacks in recovery, it pays off in power, you know what doesn't? Piston Punch. Make this move more powerful, and you could do a strictly horizontal recovery set with this as a KO move, but that would be it's only use.
Head-On Assault: A risky and unrewarding move. Instead of launching, this move buries opponents, something that can be shaken off way too easily until 120% on CPUs (I have no idea about against real people, but it could go either way. Though I'd imagine it is less effective on real people.). Make the burial last longer, reduce the startup lag, and this could remedy his laggy forward smash a bit. (I'd still make it faster though.)
Feint Jump: This move is pretty much a better version of Zero Suit Samus' Flip Jump. You can play mindgames, get out of a tight spot, and recover with it. What's not to like?
Foot Flurry: The definition of meh. I suppose it wouldn't be a bad approach if it beat weak projectiles, and wouldn't be a bad option to get out of juggling. But that's about it.
Recommended Special Sets:
Balanced: 1111, 1211, 2113,1113,
Focused on KOs: 2332, 2231, 2233
Focused on Recovery: 1212, 2212, 1232, 2232

And that's it! Feel free to give feedback. I'd also kinda like to know what special set everyone thinks would be the most useful.

 

[L9999]

Alright! Time to put the Mii Brawler under the microscope! I will attempt to make the Mii Brawler the best he can be at normal height, but not necessarily with 1111 customs. (Oh, and everything will be tested using the same Mii as the base for the tests. I will also be testing on Final Destination.) EDIT: Wow this is a huge wall of texts, I should probably put this in a spoiler box...

Spoiler

First up, his normal moves (He is a guy in his promotional art so i will call him a guy.)
Honestly, the Mii brawler's only bad normal moves are his smash attacks. He has great combo ability, but he can't kill as easily with his only KO moves being his laggy or underpowered smash attacks. His Down Smash doesn't kill until around 130 (and that's on the edge of Final Destination), his Forward smash is really strong but good luck hitting with it, which leaves his Up Smash as his only reliable kill move, making him very predictable. I think the Mii Brawler needs a faster Forward Smash, and a slightly more powerful Up Smash.
Now onto his specials:
Shot Put: I actually like this move, but it is a little on the slow side. If the Mii Brawler threw the shot put just a little bit faster then this move would be great.
Ultimate Uppercut: A chargeable move that kills at 85% when fully charged, but only does 8 damage and has terrible knockback when uncharged. This move is very useful, and is probably the Mii Brawler's only reliable KO Move. My only problem with this move is this: Whoever thought it was a good idea to make this move render you helpless should take a fully charged one of them to the face. It is by no means a recovery move so why is it treated as such?
Exploding Side Kick: A ripoff of Falcon Punch that isn't as flashy, isn't a meme, and is just as useless. This one is beyond help. Next!
Onslaught: This move is OK but it shouldn't render you helpless after a successful hit. If this was fixed, then it could serve as a good KO move if used in the air.
Burning Dropkick: Probably the most unique move in the Mii Brawler's arsenal and is by far the most useful. Uncharged it does 10 damage, and pushes you backward so you don't get punished because of the move's high ending lag. This also has great KO power and is an awesome recovery when fully charged. Having this move would warrant the Mii Brawler to have Soaring Axe Kick as his Up Special.
Headache Maker: Welp...Sorry Burning Dropkick, Headache Maker is much more original, however nowhere near as useful. It can meteor smash recovering opponents if you are careful enough, and can KO if you can get a good enough read, but that's about it. Honestly I think it is fine as is.
Soaring Axe Kick: This move is a ripoff of Kirby's Final Cutter attack, but it doesn't have any redeeming qualities like Final Cutter or Aether. I would only say this move is acceptable for use for balance reasons.
Helecopter Kick: Welcome to Toon Link's Spin Attack. It sucks as a vertical recovery, and OK as a horizontal recovery. I'm pretty sure the only reason you would want this is because of the combos as a small Mii. And as much as I bagged on Soaring Axe Kick this is probably a worse choice as a normal Mii with Burning Dropkick.
Piston Punch: OK, I seriously need to apologize to Soaring Axe Kick. Because you know what I don't think of when I give anyone a moveset? A ripoff of Little Mac's Rising Uppercut. Except what Rising Uppercut lacks in recovery, it pays off in power, you know what doesn't? Piston Punch. Make this move more powerful, and you could do a strictly horizontal recovery set with this as a KO move, but that would be it's only use.
Head-On Assault: A risky and unrewarding move. Instead of launching, this move buries opponents, something that can be shaken off way too easily until 120% on CPUs (I have no idea about against real people, but it could go either way. Though I'd imagine it is less effective on real people.). Make the burial last longer, reduce the startup lag, and this could remedy his laggy forward smash a bit. (I'd still make it faster though.)
Feint Jump: This move is pretty much a better version of Zero Suit Samus' Flip Jump. You can play mindgames, get out of a tight spot, and recover with it. What's not to like?
Foot Flurry: The definition of meh. I suppose it wouldn't be a bad approach if it beat weak projectiles, and wouldn't be a bad option to get out of juggling. But that's about it.
Recommended Special Sets:
Balanced: 1111, 1211, 2113,1113,
Focused on KOs: 2332, 2231, 2233
Focused on Recovery: 1212, 2212, 1232, 2232

And that's it! Feel free to give feedback. I'd also kinda like to know what special set everyone thinks would be the most useful.

Nice analysis. Piston Punch got nerfed, nothing compensated. If Up Throw wasn't so freaking laggy it could combo into it and be decent; and I say decent because the distance Piston Punch offers is complete trash. It's a stupid trend from Sakurai to have special moves helpless for no reason. PK Trash (abysmal ending AND start-up, does not assist recovery in any way, and yes, PK Trash), PK Freeze (same as PK Trash), Ultimate Uppercut (Why?), Giant Punch (The end lag is abymal and has no recovery distance), Burst Grenade (I know it's Sheik, but it is just stupid, it offers 0 recovery distance), Nosferatu (why crippling this piece of trash even further? It has abysmal frame data and durability as it is now), Din's Fire (because Zelda is a joke character she needs to have helpless in a terrible projectile).

 

[L1N3R1D3R]

Voting for .

Default is absolute garbage, but what everyone else is saying is already sufficient fixes, so I'll just leave my vote.

 

[Zerp]

I thought we were talking about Brawler.

Can we talk about random characters now?

Can I share my dream changelist I meant to share back when we were discussing him?

We focus on whoever the current character we voted is, but your always welcome to share anything balance related, the voting thing is intended to be a loose guideline on a character we should be talking about, so your encouraged to talk about Brawler, but that doesn't mean you can't talk about the other characters or anything.

 

[Furret24]

I'd say more about Brawler, but I know next to nothing about Miis.

I vote .

 

[Eugene Wang]

The main thing holding back the Mii Brawler is the mess of rules surrounding them. In for glory, they're banned. In tournaments, they may be banned, forced to use 1111 custom loadouts, some weird "optimized" loadout, or can use any loadout. Theory suggests that if someone really took the time to main them, they would probably be mid-tier, but we can't know for sure until someone actually tries.

 

[Zerp]

Sorry for this being slightly early, but I need much rest.

Here's Mii Brawler's results
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1mWUrTmTFjB4ffk06apX4_QCnP4gCvjcPrHWruXf9iJs/viewanalytics
and since Lucas got picked by the RNG, here's Lucas's poll http://goo.gl/forms/YSJeE6O0Cq
Folks you can vote for -->

 

[Furret24]

I'm curious as to what people have to say about Lucas.

I vote

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I don't own Lucas, since Ness pretty much has all of his special moves. As such, I have nothing to say for Lucas.

 

[Green Zelda]

and since Lucas got picked by the RNG, here's Lucas's poll http://goo.gl/forms/YSJeE6O0Cq

Voted! Also, since there (might not be) anymore patches, is this thread
only going be be "for fun"?

 

[Zerp]

Voted! Also, since there (might not be) anymore patches, is this thread
only going be be "for fun"?

Basically,yep, it's going to be for fun. Since balance patches may already be over, whatever extremely small chance it had of changing things is probably over, it's probably going to not be used for anything. I never really thought it'd amount to getting real changes in the game anyway, I just wanted a place for the community to discuss what they wanted and stuff. So yeah, it's going to be just for fun and for the sake of discussion.

 

[L1N3R1D3R]

has gotten all the buffs he needs to be a serious threat. Maybe make his Nair unescapable (with Smash DI)? I don't know.

Voting for as always.

 

[L9999]

Voted! Also, since there (might not be) anymore patches, is this thread
only going be be "for fun"?

The patch notes on the OP, I did them for fun. Sounds crazy but it's true. As this thread is hypothetical, we can imagine stuff and have fun talking about our impressions with the balance in a healthy way, unlike that toxic mess that the Competitive Impressions thread was before it died. And who knows, maybe someone crazy dude makes it possible to mod all of this in Smash 4. A real longshot, but who knows.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

My only suggestion for Lucas is to make landing not cancel PK Fire, and have PK Freeze not render him helpless. The PK Fire thing because it is annoying, and the PK Freeze thing because I feel that PK Freeze (and by extension PK Flash) could be an interesting Anti-Edge Guard move.

 

[L9999]

My only suggestion for Lucas is to make landing not cancel PK Fire, and have PK Freeze not render him helpless. The PK Fire thing because it is annoying, and the PK Freeze thing because I feel that PK Freeze (and by extension PK Flash) could be an interesting Anti-Edge Guard move.

Man, how did I missed this in my notes? The "freefall on non recovery moves" clause IMO is stupid and it should be fixed, alongside the hitbox active frames/sizes in relation to the animations, and a massive startup reduction and utility increase on Dairs. On top of my head the worst Dairs in Smash 4.
Why is Dair so trash? Isn't his air game one of his best quality to speak of? Abysmal start-up, much weaker than Brawl (it killed at 20% from Smashville platform level without meteor cancel), and abysmal ending lag. Ah! And the range is kinda terrible as well!
There is not a single reason why anyone would use Roy's Dair. Needs to hit center, laggy, Roy falls like a brick, no horizontal range, to kill with it you have to be offstage....
Has no use. Period.
This one is even more pathetic than Ness'. Ultra weak, super laggy and the spike hitbox is miniscule.
Copy paste everything I said about Roy's.
Copy paste everything I said about Palutena's.

As for Lucas, he needs PLAYERS. Desperately. I would dare to say that Lucas needs more players than buffs, to see if this "potential" everyone talks about exists, or if Mekos is right and the character is garbage.

 

[Zerp]

Here's Lucas's results ->https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1IbYxMINUamGMrlm4kR_P7nXrgvLacgCk21AImhwYZ4o/viewanalytics

Here's Mii Gunner's poll -> http://goo.gl/forms/TGbbtdrLYv

Folks you can vote for -->

 

[Djmarcus44]

I am wondering what you guys think about improving mii gunner. Personally, I think that the best way to improve the character without taking away the character's intended weaknesses (assuming that no other characters get buffs) is to make the hitboxes of reflector (1111 gunner's down b) match the animation. This change would improve Gunner's ability to get out of combos by giving Gunner a more reliable combo breaker, and it would make Gunner's reflector act differently from Fox's.

Although I would prefer a 5 frame endlag reduction on down throw, it would probably make Gunner's killing ability a little bit too powerful relative to the rest of the cast (it would probably make Gunner as good of a character as ROB). In my opinion, this change would be great if other characters were getting buffs as well.

These are my thoughts on buffs that will be enough to make Gunner competitively viable without question (The definition of viability varies widely from person to person).

 

[L1N3R1D3R]

Give a combo throw. Seriously. He's desperately lacking a way to start a string that the other two Mii types has. Either down throw or up throw would work, with down throw being like Luigi's and up throe being like Falco's. Besides that, a buff to the power of his Charge Shot would be nice, as right now it suffers from being straight up worse than Samus's.

Vote for .

 

[Djmarcus44]

Give a combo throw. Seriously. He's desperately lacking a way to start a string that the other two Mii types has. Either down throw or up throw would work, with down throw being like Luigi's and up throe being like Falco's. Besides that, a buff to the power of his Charge Shot would be nice, as right now it suffers from being straight up worse than Samus's.

Vote for .

Mii Gunner has true combos on fastfallers with down throw and up throw at low percents. Up throw true combos into up tilt, while down throw true combos into nair. Both of these combos lead into some strings that can deal huge damage. Also Gunner's great juggling game and burst mobility allow Gunner to get damaging strings pretty easily (there are some good juggling follow ups on the Mii Gunner true combo and follow up thread).

Also, Gunner is already able to kill off of a DI read with either down throw or up throw to up air. If Falco's up throw is combined with Gunner's up air, that alone would probably be enough to make Gunner a high tier if not a top tier character (It seems like it would give Gunner a kill confirm from that throw). By the way Gunner's charge blast has much better frame data than Samus's charge shot. With only 23 frames of ending lag, Gunner's charge blast is good for allowing Gunner to kill with an up smash when he/she misses the charge blast. The relatively low lag on the move also makes it pretty useful in the neutral.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Alright! Time for a Mii Gunner analysis! This will be structured the same way as my Brawler analysis.

Spoiler

So first off, normal moves. Like the Mii Brawler, the Mii Gunner is better at racking up damage than she is at killing. She is a lot more projectile based, and pretty much relies on her specials to do well. This isn't a bad thing though, and with this in mind, her normal moves are pretty good. She does have Marth syndrome though. Her throws are too powerful to combo with (though according to Djmarcus44 she can combo fast fallers.), and too weak to kill with. Honestly, I don't see the Mii Gunner as a combo kind of character. If they change her throws any, I wouldn't be against some combo ability similar to Mega Man, and a kill throw.
Now for her specials.
Charge Blast: A Charge Shot reskin...It's not bad actually. It can keep opponents away, and even kill them if the opponent is at high enough percent.
Laser Blaze: A reskin of Fox's lasers. Not too bad, but not my cup of tea.
Grenade Launch: This is one of two moves that isn't a reskin, of another fighter's, and it is awesome! This move is chargeable, but really only for range, it does the 8% regardless of charge. While charging the move, you can turn around, but you can also turn around again if you are still facing the wrong way. This is a great move that keeps opponents off of you.
Flame Pillar: This move is really only good for slight stage control. It doesn't open up combos like PK Fire and Arcfire, but it can form a wall because of it's lingering hitbox. Might be used more often if it was faster.
Stealth Burst: A reskin of Din's Fire that isn't stealthy at all. You can clearly see it at the beginning and end of the move, and if you look for it, you can see it in the middle too. It also doesn't go up or down like Din's Fire, and STILL makes you helpless if you are in the air. Get rid of the helplessness, and then make this move completely invisible until the explosion, and then and only then could this thing be useful. Maybe.
Gunner Missle: A reskin of Samus Missiles. They actually seem to be better than Samus's missiles. The small ones actually make an effort to home in on the opponent, and the big ones deal 10%, so the damage adds up fast. These things are pretty good.
Lunar Launch: This move is an Elewind reskin. It isn't a bad recovery, and the fireball can dish out some extra damage as icing on the cake.
Cannon Uppercut: This thing was designed to kill. The first hit is a meteor smash to punish bad ledge guarding, and the second KOes pretty reliably. It isn't even that bad of a recovery move. Take notes Piston Punch!
Arm Rocket: Does no damage, but is a better recovery move. Not bad.
Echo Reflector: Fox Reflector recolor. It reflects projectiles and is useful for nothing else. Next!
Bomb Drop: This is really good for annoying your opponent if you use it at the right times. That's pretty much it's only use, but I like it anyway. (Even if it is a Samus Bomb reskin)
Absorbing Vortex: A reskin of PSI Magnet. Not the most useful thing in the world, but not too bad I guess. I think it should give more of a push at the end though.
Recommended Special Sets:
Well, maybe not this. How about moveset combos? Anyway, Charge Blast, Laser Blaze, and Grenade Launch should be have good synergy with the other projectiles, so use whatever fits your playstyle. Flame Pillar is good for minor stage control, but you can use the Gunner Missile if you want something differant. I would only recomend Stealth Burst if it got the changes I spoke of and you are using Laser Blaze. Lunar Launch is really good for recovering, but if you need an extra boost use Arm Rocket. Want some KO power? Use Cannon Uppercut! And lastly, Echo reflector is probably your best defensive option, but you can use Absorbing Vortex if you want a more optional weapon. Bomb Drop is a great offensive option.

And that's it! Feel free to give me feedback, and state your opinion on the best special set for the Mii Gunner. (Mine is 3112)

 

[L9999]

Alright! Time for a Mii Gunner analysis! This will be structured the same way as my Brawler analysis.

Spoiler

So first off, normal moves. Like the Mii Brawler, the Mii Gunner is better at racking up damage than she is at killing. She is a lot more projectile based, and pretty much relies on her specials to do well. This isn't a bad thing though, and with this in mind, her normal moves are pretty good. She does have Marth syndrome though. Her throws are too powerful to combo with (though according to Djmarcus44 she can combo fast fallers.), and too weak to kill with. Honestly, I don't see the Mii Gunner as a combo kind of character. If they change her throws any, I wouldn't be against some combo ability similar to Mega Man, and a kill throw.
Now for her specials.
Charge Blast: A Charge Shot reskin...It's not bad actually. It can keep opponents away, and even kill them if the opponent is at high enough percent.
Laser Blaze: A reskin of Fox's lasers. Not too bad, but not my cup of tea.
Grenade Launch: This is one of two moves that isn't a reskin, of another fighter's, and it is awesome! This move is chargeable, but really only for range, it does the 8% regardless of charge. While charging the move, you can turn around, but you can also turn around again if you are still facing the wrong way. This is a great move that keeps opponents off of you.
Flame Pillar: This move is really only good for slight stage control. It doesn't open up combos like PK Fire and Arcfire, but it can form a wall because of it's lingering hitbox. Might be used more often if it was faster.
Stealth Burst: A reskin of Din's Fire that isn't stealthy at all. You can clearly see it at the beginning and end of the move, and if you look for it, you can see it in the middle too. It also doesn't go up or down like Din's Fire, and STILL makes you helpless if you are in the air. Get rid of the helplessness, and then make this move completely invisible until the explosion, and then and only then could this thing be useful. Maybe.
Gunner Missle: A reskin of Samus Missiles. They actually seem to be better than Samus's missiles. The small ones actually make an effort to home in on the opponent, and the big ones deal 10%, so the damage adds up fast. These things are pretty good.
Lunar Launch: This move is an Elewind reskin. It isn't a bad recovery, and the fireball can dish out some extra damage as icing on the cake.
Cannon Uppercut: This thing was designed to kill. The first hit is a meteor smash to punish bad ledge guarding, and the second KOes pretty reliably. It isn't even that bad of a recovery move. Take notes Piston Punch!
Arm Rocket: Does no damage, but is a better recovery move. Not bad.
Echo Reflector: Fox Reflector recolor. It reflects projectiles and is useful for nothing else. Next!
Bomb Drop: This is really good for annoying your opponent if you use it at the right times. That's pretty much it's only use, but I like it anyway. (Even if it is a Samus Bomb reskin)
Absorbing Vortex: A reskin of PSI Magnet. Not the most useful thing in the world, but not too bad I guess. I think it should give more of a push at the end though.
Recommended Special Sets:
Well, maybe not this. How about moveset combos? Anyway, Charge Blast, Laser Blaze, and Grenade Launch should be have good synergy with the other projectiles, so use whatever fits your playstyle. Flame Pillar is good for minor stage control, but you can use the Gunner Missile if you want something differant. I would only recomend Stealth Burst if it got the changes I spoke of and you are using Laser Blaze. Lunar Launch is really good for recovering, but if you need an extra boost use Arm Rocket. Want some KO power? Use Cannon Uppercut! And lastly, Echo reflector is probably your best defensive option, but you can use Absorbing Vortex if you want a more optional weapon. Bomb Drop is a great offensive option.

And that's it! Feel free to give me feedback, and state your opinion on the best special set for the Mii Gunner. (Mine is 3112)

Something that bothers me about Gunner and you make allusion to it is that she is not gimmicky enough despite being a gimmick character. She is a mish mash of other characters () and doesn't excel much. For 1111, her Charge Shot should be stronger. Flame Pillar should be faster, since it doesn't trap or is huge like PK Fire and Arcfire respectibly. Up B is whatever for me personally. No matter what buffs it has it will be a gimp invitation like . Reflector should be like shine. It needs SOME gimmick/use. As well as Absorbing Vortex, otherwise known as PSI Magnet, because they are 100% the same. 1111 should have a niche that make it considerable to use instead of the customs while not being particularly better than the customs. How did manage to make Din's Fire worse is beyond my undestanding, but then again things like tripping, are beyond my undestanding.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Something that bothers me about Gunner and you make allusion to it is that she is not gimmicky enough despite being a gimmick character. She is a mish mash of other characters () and doesn't excel much. For 1111, her Charge Shot should be stronger. Flame Pillar should be faster, since it doesn't trap or is huge like PK Fire and Arcfire respectibly. Up B is whatever for me personally. No matter what buffs it has it will be a gimp invitation like . Reflector should be like shine. It needs SOME gimmick/use. As well as Absorbing Vortex, otherwise known as PSI Magnet, because they are 100% the same. 1111 should have a niche that make it considerable to use instead of the customs while not being particularly better than the customs. How did manage to make Din's Fire worse is beyond my undestanding, but then again things like tripping, are beyond my undestanding.

I think Sakurai just has trouble making similar things different without making one thing much worse than the other. SSB4 Ex: >,>>, >, >, < Everyone she is based off of. Many of them have been this way across the games, and I feel like it is because he is focusing on making them different rather than more balanced, though another thing is that the game is probably only balanced to the point where the casual gamer can see no difference in the tiers of characters (except for Palutena & King Dedede) because there is no real way to completely balance the competitive aspect of the game. A remedy for this could be the ability to alter damage output and frame data of all of a fighter's moves in the custom mode, but that's just a pipe dream. (Just like my hopes of ,, and returning. )

 

[Djmarcus44]

SMAASH! Puppy , Gunner's stealth burst is based on Zelda's Din Fire, and Gunner is better than Zelda. Also, Bomb drop is very useful to gunner because it allows gunner to bomb shuffle away from the bomb to make it safe in the neutral or shuffle close to the bomb in order to use it as an excellent landing option. It can also combo into some of gunner's other moves. Also, most Gunners agree that 3312 is the best moveset because it gives Gunner the best combo ability and mobility.

L9999 , I think that Gunner's biggest problems are the facts that he/she has low damage output and struggles with killing. Although gimmicks would be nice, Gunner could probably use either a more reliable kill confirm or a more reliable combo breaker. Also, Gunner's other specials give gunner more than enough gimmicks (Absorbing Vortex even has a wavedash. Gunner can also b-reverse with grenade, bomb shuffle with bomb drop or gundash with fair).

 

[Zerp]

Since noone else was voted for, Link wins de-facto!
Here's Link's poll for today http://goo.gl/forms/9z0MJg01Mg
And here's Mii Gunner's results https://docs.google.com/forms/d/135Dd89LVXsw3r42StCHq60Fjvd2HdYwmT1nWpuQ38YI/viewanalytics
The fine gentlemen you can vote for -->

I'll vote

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Link seems pretty good with his arsenal of projectiles, but his recovery is rather poor if you're not able to use the Whirling Leap custom special move.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Since noone else was voted for, Link wins de-facto!
Here's Link's poll for today http://goo.gl/forms/9z0MJg01Mg
And here's Mii Gunner's results https://docs.google.com/forms/d/135Dd89LVXsw3r42StCHq60Fjvd2HdYwmT1nWpuQ38YI/viewanalytics
The fine gentlemen you can vote for -->

I'll vote

How do you know Greninja is a guy?

More seriously. I don't think Link is all that bad. He's got the projectiles, he's got the power (This close to inserting a The Labyrinth reference here.), All he don't got is the recovery, but that's not a bad thing for him. Especially since he has those bombs that help his recovery a bit.

I vote Shulk cuz I want to know why he is on the list.