The Unofficial Super Smash Bros Balancing Committee- Anything and everything!

[L1N3R1D3R]

Link's alright. He's got some issues that make him worse than his cartoon counterpart, but he can make as a pretty threatening enemy when played correctly. He still needs a lot of lag cut down, like with his hookshot and aerials.

Voting for .

 

[L9999]

On the notion that Link's recovery is complete garbage and his projectiles are sluggish as well, I think Link needs a massive frame data revision and tiny bit less sluggishness in his projectiles. Vote .

 

[Zerp]

How do you know Greninja is a guy?

That's... a very good point, I don't know.

Anyways, sorry for the slight delay, my father had to take down the entire house's internet for some bank appointment, so it was justified as in I couldn't do anything about it not being exactly on time, but I'm still angry that I'm late. Being late just makes me want to burn things down, probably not a very healthy reaction, but it is what it is.

Here's Link's results: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1jQMhX3iaw9nndAk2kPvUGD4aTMOxTWO2i2ow9X3FAyM/viewanalytics

And here's Shulk's poll: http://goo.gl/forms/JO7FiarwCq

The somewhat random collection of people you can vote for -->

 

[L1N3R1D3R]

With the release of Cloud and Corrin, Shulk's huge range isn't all it's made out to be, especially with how laggy he is. He needs less ending lag on all his ground moves and aerial Back Slash to set him apart as worth using over them.

Voting for .

 

[valakmtnsmash4]

With the release of Cloud and Corrin, Shulk's huge range isn't all it's made out to be, especially with how laggy he is. He needs less ending lag on his ground moves to set him apart as worth using over them.

Voting for .

His down tilt is pretty good at low percents, but all the buffs I could have wished for are on the op

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Make Shulk's attacks less laggy would be a huge start. Also, while Shulk's Monado Arts do modify his pros and cons, some of them just don't bring enough fire to be efficient.

For an example, the Smash Monado Art may increase the knockback of Shulk's attacks at the expense of lowering the damage that he deals, but even with the knockback boost, Shulk still can't KO his opponents until they reach the higher damage percentages, unless he happens to get lucky with Vision. Even then, you're making Shulk more vulnerable to getting KO'd early, as his knockback resistance is weaker, and he's even more vulnerable to shield-grabs, since Smash also weakens Shulk's shield damage strength.

Last up, Vision's counterattack is quite slow to startup. If you block an attack like Koopa Meteor, the opponent can easily grab a ledge "before" Vision's counterattack strikes, causing the counterattack to completely miss the target. Most other counters strike much quicker than Vision (this includes even Palutena's Counter).

 

[Kikkipoptart12]

For Shulk, the start up on a lot of his move needs to be fixed. I think he's one of the few that have his start up frame hit the double digits.
His first counter needs to be faster too. Thats all I think that needs to be fixed.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Oh! I know how to make Shulk's Vision faster! Switch the two versions of the move, and make the default more powerful.

 

[Zerp]

Shulk's results---> https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1IjUHqdYE3ETMNwAkYftmTFKKYq9mZAR24LIplpQ-CtE/viewanalytics
Robin's poll for today---> http://goo.gl/forms/Y19wXmDhc3
The unique organisms you can vote for -->
I'll speak my piece on Robin later but for now I'll just for

 

[FamilyTeam]

Why is Robin slow.
Why.
I haven't checked but I wouldn't doubt that there are characters that walk faster than he runs.
He isn't slow in Awakening, why is he slow here, I don't even think it makes sense from a balance standpoint, he isn't even unbalanced to justify this.

 

[Wintermelon43]

I'll return when the other four characters are finished discussion. Forgot about this thread somehow, so I want to wait for the last four to be over. What do we do afterward?

(I promise I won't forget again!)

 

[L1N3R1D3R]

Do something about his ground speed. PLEASE. Also slightly decrease the end lag of his special attacks.

Voting for .

 

[FamilyTeam]

I don't even know why they did this. Not saying it would fit, but making Robin run as fast as Captain Falcon still wouldn't necessarily make him unbalanced.

 

[LevinViolin]

Robin's speed is absolutely fine where it is. It doesn't hinder him as a character that much because he still has effective pressuring options as well as an easy time getting follow ups.

I'm slightly more inclined to talk about his grab. It has poor range and way too much endlag. Even then, I'd still say a buff to either of those wouldn't be anything more than a quality-of-life type thing. He can still net grabs with arcthunder and tomahawks, not to mention the reward off of grab is pretty big. Downthrow > jab does roughly 20% up until around 60%, and Checkmate will kill at an average of maybe 94% (pretty good for a kill confirm).

The thing that would be the sole largest buff, in my opinion, is giving him a good "get off me" option. People are rewarded for getting past Robin's projectiles because most characters have an easy time comboing him or pressuring him up close. This is good character balance; however, it feels like sometimes the reward for breaking through Robin's defenses can be too much (I'm not biased, am I?).

Other than that I want his tilts to be just a tad more useful. His aerials and specials are amazing, so it makes sense that his tilts would be sub-par, but I feel like uptilt should have more use than being a niche anti-air and comboing off of downthrow. Downtilt and side tilt are nearly the same move. One of them is faster, and one of them has more range.

Edit: Ick, did I write this? It's poorly worded. I'm not going to bother fixing all of my mistakes, so I'll just try to summarize the main points that I was trying to get across in this post.

1. Robin's speed is fine.
   
2. Grab could feasibly use less endlag or more range, but it's not extremely detrimental to his character the way it is now.
3. Robin needs at least somewhat of a combo breaker
4. Robin's tilts need more variety in their purpose to make them more useful overall.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I think Robin was designed to be like a turtle. He's slow, but makes that up with his tomes. What really hurts Robin, however, is the limits that his tomes have, and using them up too quickly can end up hurting Robin's offensive potential. Even Elwind has its limits, which is quite bad for Robin's recovery if he gets edge-guarded a lot.

Just to put things into perspective, Robin's projectile game is heavily hindered by the tome limitations, which is something that no one else ever has to deal with. As such, you can't just projectile spam all the time with him.

On a side note, while some of Robin's throws are strong, his grab range is not that good.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Do something about his ground speed. PLEASE. Also slightly decrease the end lag of his special attacks.

Voting for .

I don't even know why they did this. Not saying it would fit, but making Robin run as fast as Captain Falcon still wouldn't necessarily make him unbalanced.

I think this was done because Robin's gimmick is that he is a tactition. He plans out every move he makes before he makes it so he can use the best strategy. It's the same thing here, with the limited use magic and weapon break mechanics taken straight from the Fire Emblem series. Making Robin fast would kinda defeat the purpose of this, because you could just run away if you made a mistake. Going along with what LevinViolin and Mario & Sonic Guy are saying, I think he was designed well.

My only suggestion for Robin would be to make Noseferatu actually useful, and get rid of the helplessness it causes if you actually manage to land it, and not die offstage.

 

[Furret24]

Why is Robin slow.
Why.
I haven't checked but I wouldn't doubt that there are characters that walk faster than he runs.
He isn't slow in Awakening, why is he slow here, I don't even think it makes sense from a balance standpoint, he isn't even unbalanced to justify this.

For specifics, 27 characters in this game walk just as fast or faster than Robin when he runs.

To put that in perspective, that's nearly half of the roster.

 

[Deleted member]

Robin is a perfectly balanced character. He could use less endlag on his grab, but that's really it.

 

[Zerp]

I personally think Robin's pretty well balanced, and while I do think he could go for a buff or two, I think he's got enough love already.

Spoiler: Robin's buffs visualized

I feel like the amount he's got is kind of pushing it and I believe too much of anything is bad, so I'm not in favor of Robin buffs, but I wouldn't be upset or anything if he was buffed a little more. I feel pretty neutral on Robin.

Anyways, here's Robin's results https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1sMitKjuD9efTov9F_TOCTP873MaDhGEoIs2CSgX1jsE/viewanalytics
And here's Donkey Kong's poll http://goo.gl/forms/u9uNCzY65y
The three non-descript humanoids you can vote for -->

I'll return when the other four characters are finished discussion. Forgot about this thread somehow, so I want to wait for the last four to be over. What do we do afterward?

(I promise I won't forget again!)

I'm going to host a little poll after the last of these 3 characters is over, and depending on which side gets more votes, we'll either just vote on all the other characters we haven't gone for, like Sheik and ZSS, or we'll vote on hypothetical changes the cut veterans would have received. Once we're done with one of those, we'll move on to the other.

 

[Deleted member]

Donkey Kong is also perfectly fine. He's gotten the buffs he needed and gets good rep and results at a national level. Got nothing to say about him.

 

[L1N3R1D3R]

In my eyes, needs some buffs but also some nerfs. His cargo up throw does TEN PERCENT, which is ridiculous for a combo throw that can true combo into a kill. That should be lowered to about eight percent, but at the same time his aerial Giant Punch should not put him into free fall, his up smash should scoop, and perhaps his forward air should be a bit faster.

Voting for .

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I can probably say that Donkey Kong doesn't need any major changes. Spinning Kong could use some more vertical distance though, since Donkey Kong's vertical recovery is poor, and Chopper Kong screws up his horizontal recovery; Chopper Kong is quite pathetic for recovery when compared to Link's Whirling Leap (which offers better horizontal movement AND good vertical distance).

 

[Furret24]

Outside of maybe giving his Up Special a little more vertical height, DK is perfectly fine as is.

I vote

 

[Deleted member]

I guess I vote .

 

[L9999]

DK not entering into freefall by Giant Punch is kind of gratuitous because the end lag is so abysmal he will likely be punished for using it regardless of DK's position.

 

[MarioMeteor]

Donkey Kong is fine as is. One of the best heavyweight in the game and definitely the best superheavyweight. If they do buff him, I think they should nerf the Ding Dong to compensate.

 

[Zerp]

Here's Donkey Kong's results ---> https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1m7E1xJX8fC0YNdeh-4ENYpB6xEuVrE9v7LGEPDCBC4s/viewanalytics
Olimar's poll today--->http://goo.gl/forms/1FzsCwj0cU
You can vote for either or

 

[Green Zelda]

Olimar's poll today--->http://goo.gl/forms/1FzsCwj0cU

"The form "Donkey Kong XIV" is no longer accepting responses.

Try contacting the owner of the form if you think this is a mistake."

???

EDIT: Nevermind, it's working now!

 

[Furret24]

Olimar is perfectly fine as is.

I vote

 

[Deleted member]

Olimar is fine as is. Maybe finetune the AI on the Pikmin, but even then it's not a huge detriment.

I vote .

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I can't really say much about Olimar, outside of making his Pikmin more responsive to his attack commands. I've seen smash attacks, aerials, and grabs fail, all because the Pikmin just don't keep up with him all the time.

 

[L1N3R1D3R]

I'm not the one to speak about because I simply hate him in general (it's a long story), so I'll let others do the talking. I'll acknowledge that he's a worthy competitor that definitely isn't top tier, but anything else I say will probably be biased.

Voting for .

 

[Wintermelon43]

I'm not the one to speak about because I simply hate him in general (it's a long story), so I'll let others do the talking. I'll acknowledge that he's a worthy competitor that definitely isn't top tier, but anything else I say will probably be biased.

Voting for .

Tell me the story

 

[L1N3R1D3R]

Tell me the story

I knew someone would respond with that... I know you'll either get bored or notice the flaws in my reasoning, so just accept that I have an irrational dislike for him and move on.

 

[Zerp]

"The form "Donkey Kong XIV" is no longer accepting responses.

Try contacting the owner of the form if you think this is a mistake."

???

EDIT: Nevermind, it's working now!

Yeah, that was bit of a goof up on my part, each time I make a survey, it's actually just a reskinned copy of the last, and I kind of forgot to re-enable accepting responses so that message intended for DK showed up, I should be more careful about remembering things like that.
Really though, thanks for pointing it out.

Anyways, Olimar definitely does not need buffs in my opinion, he's pretty stronk. Here's his results. https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1guz_pWFIT2LzKOWyTQSB2tw3JDizztxukOl8IYA4-FE/viewanalytics
And here's Ike's poll for today: http://goo.gl/forms/9J1IezyCOZ
Oh and you can vote for any character, as long as their ,,,, or .
I vote .

 

[Furret24]

Tough call, but I think I'll vote for .

Hey, where did Greninja go?

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I can't really say much for Ike. Maybe make some of his attacks have less startup lag.

 

[L9999]

Up B grabbing the ledge backwards. Nerfed from Brawl, shouldn't have been nerfed in the first place.

 

[L1N3R1D3R]

Reverse up B ledge grab is all needs really, but besides that he's a solid contender among his throw combos and great power.

Voting for the Nerf Meister himself.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I don't really have anything to say about Ike. I actually like him this time because he doesn't feel as slow. (I despised him in Brawl) Though he does look a bit wierd in his victory animations...

Oh and you can vote for any character, as long as their ,,,, or .
I vote .

Well in that case I vote for:

Spoiler

and(Now my finger hurts. lol)

Cuz I'm a rebel.