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@Bridge I think it depends on the amount of resources the games have to incorporate into a moveset. The most notable and interesting mechanic in the Galaxy games was indeed the gravity physics, so I thought that Rosalina could rely on this to make her interesting character. But I never thought she would become a duo with Luma, it indeed really freshened up the character of Rosalina. In this case, i think were not trying hard enough and need to look outside the box alot more, it's pretty obvious that Sakurai is thinking harder create more creative movesets.
My thoughts on his uniqueness.
He wouldn't have any gimmicks like Pokemon trainer or Rosalina, but his movepool would be very unique. He could use boxing gloves, the blunderbuss, the helicopter jetpack, his crown, kredits, the blast o matic, and klaptraps. And I'm sure Sakurai could double this list in half a second.
My moveset (specials)
B: Kannonball
Shoots a cannonball from the blunderbuss. Can be picked up and thrown.
Side B: Krown Boomerang
Up B: Kopter
Flies up on the copter. Multi-hitting.
Down B: Klaptrap Kommand
Releases a Klaptrap. It clings on to people and slows them down.
Final Smash: Kredits
King K Rool falls on the ground and plays dead. Each opponent taunts three times, leaving them wide open for a Smash Attack.
Yeah, not momentum control as unique. Just how well his moves flow together seems more unique than some other characters.
Perhaps the tiers are too rigid; Sonic in A- makes more sense.
I would like to opt for Peach to be moved up then considering I feel she has more unique attributes than Sonic. She had the 1st ever counter (that is still kind of unique due to the wide range it has compared to others), the Vegetable move (which does different damage for each turnip as well as chances for pulling Bob-ombs, a Beam Sword and a Mr. Saturn) a damage changing side smash, floating (which allows for aerial attack linking, something not possible on any other character), the generality of her being an aerial queen, as well as the magic she possesses including the hearts and the new ribbon effect seen in Smash 4. Peach Bomber and Peach Parasol are unique on their own right too.
Actually, after looking at all this I don't know why she wasn't in A in the first place, either that or if this is considered "B material" we need to entirely reconsider our A and S material choices. Also looking at this, since I consider this A, I still slightly feel the move flow is not enough for Sonic to be considered A. At most, Sonic gets a B+ from me, especially after what Villager has given us.
Also, the NEW version of Pit just MIGHT be B material at least. We seem to have forgotten that he has more than 2 jumps as well as a glide (which is kind of unique). His moves are certainly more inspired this time around from what we've seen. The Upperdash Arm and Guradian Orbitars are still not game-changing or anything but they look much better than Angel Ring and Mirror Shield. What appears to be his new up B also looks quite promising. The dual blade thing is sort of unique as well.
King K. Rool
(I am using BluePikmin11's questions)
1. How many diverse options does this character have?
King K. Rool has several boss battles to pull a treasure trove of moves from: including a boomerang-acting crown, blunderbuss, electrodes, as well as other tricks. His personality would fit well in this Smash which focuses on emotions and reactions among the cast while fighting. His large bulbous stomach is not only comical, but can easily serve as a weapon.
But does he have a mechanic? He could. As a schizophrenic crocodile with a maddening eye tic, he takes pride in creating a unique role and really getting into character. I propose Down B being a costume swap move that rotates from King costume to Pirate to Mad Scientist. Only his other three specials change while his A moves stay the same. *moveset idea below
2. Is their moves or abilities diverse from the rest of the Smash cast?
King K. Rool has potential to be the heaviest cast member; stealing the role from Bowser. He has a potential costume-change mechanic, but regardless his variety of moves should be present in his moveset. I see him as a large target and heavyweight that throws his weight around to build up momentum. His specials allow him various ways to approach to allow him to get his momentum going. Once the large crocodile really starts to move, he becomes extremely dangerous.
I think it would be a crying shame if his blunderbuss was not used.
3. Has the concept of the character been done before?
If he could change just his specials with a costume-change, then no.
Otherwise, he is another super-weight. But he would have possibly more than one projectile. His weight would allow him to hang around longer, while focusing on harassing characters from afar rather than act like a tank.
3a. If it has been done before, is the character's way of doing it unique on it's own.
K. Rool's wealth of attacks can allow him to go in several directions. He could be a heavy projectile spammer with his crown and Blunderbuss, along with other possibilities. He could perhaps, bounce with his body rather than simply crashing down like Bowser. And it does seem that at least one super-weight is added each game. He could easily fill that role.
4. Is the character's abilities and moves provide enough to be entertaining?
I do think his personality alone combined with being a fat crocodile is entertainment enough. But if he is too be included his moveset should shine as well. He not only has his attacks from the game, but a large belly and possible crocodile attributes that could complement a fun-packed array of attacks. 5. How visually different is the character in terms of body shape and looks?
Very striking model. A fat crocodile that loves to play dress up and comes complete with a veiny eye. Plus, he has an emotional range that would put King DeDeDe's wild facial expressions to shame.
6. Does it fit the character well enough?
Playing dress-up as a mechanic would suit him. But so would stuffing his array of moves into his moveset without a gimmick. Being an immense heavy-weight would surely fit him as he is quite bigger than DK in his games.
Rating out of Ten (Uniqueness): 6- 8.5
I really cannot see him getting in the game unless Sakurai is going to take full advantage of his unique personality, crazy arsenal of moves, and hilarious body. But just in case, I will put 6 as a low minimum. But really I feel that if he is going to be in the game, he will be much more unique and memorable. I would think that players that do not like to play as heavyweights would be compelled to give him a try.
MOVESET
Down B Costume Change: K. Rool spins really fast in a blur and appears wearing a different costumes from his Kountry games. King, Pirate, and Mad Scientist. His other specials change accordingly, but his A moves stay the same.
King K. Rool
Toward B Krown Toss: Tosses his Krown forward, it returns much like Link's Boomerang.
B Belly Bounce: Puts his hands on his waist and thrusts his stomach forward. Short range, but good knockback. Can bounce solid projectiles back with high velocity. Can be used on his Krown when it is coming back to him instead of catching it.
Up B Crocodile Leap: Flicks his tail and launches upwards with an open mouth. Goes a little less further than Fire Fox. Mouth snaps close at the end for high KO potential. Can be angled as long as the trajectory is above the King.
Kaptain K. Rool
B Blunderbuss Loadin': Puts a cannon ball, spiked cannon ball, or Klaptrap into his Blunderbuss.
B Fire! (when loaded): Fires a cannon ball, spiked cannon ball, or Klaptrap horizontally depending on which one was loaded. Each has different properties.
Toward B Jet Propulsion: Holds the blunderbuss behind him and fire comes out of the end like in the boss battle. Sends K. Rool forward. On the ground leaves a trail of fire which quickly extinguishes.
Up B Downward Fire: Hops a little upwards and fires downward. Nothing happens after the hop if it is not loaded except for a clicking noise and a confused expression on the Kaptain's face. The shot, if loaded, sends Kaptain upwards. Projectile shoots downward. Effects depends on ammunition.
Baron K. Roolenstein
B Electrode: Throws at a metal sphere that hovers slightly above the floor or hovers in the air if used there. Slowly drifts off screen. If anyone touches the metal orb, it shocks them for good damage, decent knockback, and high stun.
Toward B Shock Pulse: Baron hits a switch on his remote control. If an orb is out, it fires quickly left or right depending on the direction pressed. It travels quickly, immersed in electricity. Low damage, low knockback upwards, and low stun.
Up B Propellers: Acts like Pit's Wings. The Baron's tiny propellers rotate allowing him to move freely in the air. Can attack out of it, although his propellers will turn off.
Fightin' Moves
A: Wild right swing with a fist
A: Wild right swing, takes a step and does a wild left swing
AAA: Wild right swing, takes a step and does a wild left swing, takes a step forward while clasping both hands above his head and then brings down his hammerfists
Toward A: Quick kick forward with good stun, but low range. If A is pressed during the kick, K. Rool draws an arm back behind him while balanced on one foot and brings it forward in an extended punch.
Crouch: Lays on stomach, with tongue out and one eye closed poorly faking death.
Down A: Makes a swimming motion (breast stroke) forward as he swings his head forcefully from one side to the other. A pressed for repeat.
Up A: Stands on his tippy-toes and twirls with his snout pointed to the sky. Knocks Opponents away. Can juggle.
Dash A: Slides on his stomach while snapping his mouth like a Klaptrap. Goes far.
Down Smash: Spins in place once with a flurry of his cape and both arms extended. Spinning clothesline. Fast with decent horizontal KO potential.
Forward Smash: Does the worm. A dance move where he flops forward onto his stomach. A can be pressed again for a second belly flop forward.
Up Smash: Face screen, crouches, and throws one right uppercut quickly. Force takes K. Rool off the ground as high as the height of one Mario. A can be pressed again during the animation for a second left uppercut which lifts the crocodile higher. Has one jump he can use after the move. Aerial Attacks
Nuetral A: Curls his knees up to his stomach and grabs them while spinning about. An aerial crocodile cannonball. If he hits the ground, during the move he bounces upwards. Bounce height depends on how far K. Rool falls. Can be done over and over until he runs out of height. Lag coming out of move.
Back A: K. Rool does a spinning backhand which turns him to face the opposite direction.
Forward A: K. Rool throws both fists forward with his body stretched out completely parallel with the floor below. Lag if he hits the ground in execution.
Down A: Does a spit with his legs and throws a fist downward. Decent Meteor Smash.
Up A: Holds his crown on his head with both hands, does a somersault, and kicks upwards with both feet.
Throws
Pummel: An open handed slap
Forward Throw: Bowls the opponent forward. Opponent rolls on the ground. Damage is done as the enemy rolls. Roll is determined by their percentage. Can roll off the stage.
Down Throw: Puts his mouth over their head. Then jumps a little and does a Death Roll. Spins horizantally with foe's head in mouth and both crash to the floor. Enemy bounces upwards stunned and K. Rool has lag getting up. Highest damaging throw out of the cast.
Up Throw: Reaches down and grabs opponent's legs and stands back up while hurling them straight above. Low damage, but good power for a quick move
Back Throw: With one hand, tosses the foe over his shoulder. Quick, decent power with a curved trajectory.
Techniques
Glide: K. Rool does a slow descent with his cape/pirate coat/lab coat billowing and his hands flapping at his side. Cannot go up and down like other glides.
Glide Attack: Does one spin while he snaps his jaws closed for a bite.[collapse/]
Palutena is not a character that i support. i have nothing against she but im biased and i think that others characters are necessary before she.
But thats an opinion about representation.
Personally, for what we can see in Kid Icarus and all those proposed movesets, she dont impress me at all. She is basically a Greek goddess that features a staff, a shield and light magic. In fact my mind associates her with Athena, that commonly is represented with spear-shield or staff. And i have the impression that both are wise. Actually both Link and Pit feature Shield, but they have different functions so we dont know how Palutena shield could act. Correct me if im wrong but Shield of Pit was removed, right?
Basically, I see her like a Blank blackboard. If she is unique or not depends in Sakurai Team. Everyone places her in B tier. But by the way I feel that irrelevant and the list kinda pointless. But in order to play the game... C tier.
Umm... I would not put Sonic on the same level as Kirby or Mr. Game and Watch, nor would I put him with Zelda/Sheik. Besides speedy movement/attack flow I don't really see any reason for him to be there. Momentum canceling isn't anything special considering a LOT of other characters can do it. Heck, Mr. Game and Watch can do it a lot better with his bucket braking technique. Also, I feel if it is something sort of exploited and it wasn't INTENDED by Sakurai it doesn't count (so bucket braking, chain grabs, etc. are irrelevant when it comes to determining uniqueness). I can argue that Peach feels a lot more unique than him and she is currently placed B tier....
I'm confused how are Kirby and G&W on the same level. G&W is clearly S tier while Kirby should be A. They are both very unique, but Kirby copies other characters to gain uniqueness and shares similar A moves with a strong amount of the cast (Mario, Falcon, Jiggles are some I can think of right now). Not to mention his playstyle is similar to Meta Knight. Sonic, again, I would put at a strong B tier because his moves are similar to his other moves and several of his A moves copy senior characters like Samus and Pikachu.
@Bowserlick
I belive that K. Rool can have very unique B moves and fairly unique A moves, but I don't see him having a mechanic. It is highly unlikely that they will give that same entity a 3 character shift mechanism. Especially since his (physical body doesn't change as he is just changing costumes). Zelda and Sheik can change because they are physically different (one being a "man" and the other a woman). Pokemon trainer has 3 different entities. It just would make sense to me how K. Rool could have 3 different versions of himself as he stays the same croc the whole time.
Based on this I would give him a potential of an A tier rating though because I can see his moveset being as unique as G&W's.
Adding on to what @Bowserlick
said about the costume switch mechanic, I feel like the costumes can also affect his stats.
For example, Baron K. Roolenstein should be floaty and have a better recovery than the others, due to his Kopterpack.
Adding on to what @Bowserlick
said about the costume switch mechanic, I feel like the costumes can also affect his stats.
For example, Baron K. Roolenstein should be floaty and have a better recovery than the others, due to his Kopterpack.
Is this ranking based on what the character could feasibly have, or what they're more probable to have? If it's the former case, K. Rool merits top marks, whereas if it's the latter, he still deserves high marks, but probably not as high.
Is this ranking based on what the character could feasibly have, or what they're more probable to have? If it's the former case, K. Rool merits top marks, whereas if it's the latter, he still deserves high marks, but probably not as high.
I'm going to give K. Rool a B+ Tier.
[collapse=reasoning]
K. Rool has a lot of weapons at his disposal. And a potential for a projectile driven/defensive heavyweight is interesting. A lot of potential for unique projectiles as well. The potential for a "costume switch" is likely the most interesting aspect, but the ideas (while absolutely fitting his character) aren't of the same caliber. Blunderbuss seems like the stand-out.[/collapse]
I would like to opt for Peach to be moved up then considering I feel she has more unique attributes than Sonic. She had the 1st ever counter (that is still kind of unique due to the wide range it has compared to others), the Vegetable move (which does different damage for each turnip as well as chances for pulling Bob-ombs, a Beam Sword and a Mr. Saturn) a damage changing side smash, floating (which allows for aerial attack linking, something not possible on any other character), the generality of her being an aerial queen, as well as the magic she possesses including the hearts and the new ribbon effect seen in Smash 4. Peach Bomber and Peach Parasol are unique on their own right too.
Actually, after looking at all this I don't know why she wasn't in A in the first place, either that or if this is considered "B material" we need to entirely reconsider our A and S material choices. Also looking at this, since I consider this A, I still slightly feel the move flow is not enough for Sonic to be considered A. At most, Sonic gets a B+ from me, especially after what Villager has given us.
Also, the NEW version of Pit just MIGHT be B material at least. We seem to have forgotten that he has more than 2 jumps as well as a glide (which is kind of unique). His moves are certainly more inspired this time around from what we've seen. The Upperdash Arm and Guradian Orbitars are still not game-changing or anything but they look much better than Angel Ring and Mirror Shield. What appears to be his new up B also looks quite promising. The dual blade thing is sort of unique as well.
Yeah, waiting to see more of new Pit. He certainly seems better-off this time around. Peach should have been in A-Tier, yes.
As for Sonic A-/B+ seems fair; not really sure how distinct those tiers really are, anyway. I'm not sure if flow is the right word to describe Villager, Sonic's moves literally flow together while Villager's seem to work together in very unique ways. Villager's an S-Tier for me at least.
@BKupa666
A bit of both.
We can throw around really creative ideas to get people pumped about the character, but coming up with an idea that has little to no chance of happening won't really help the ranking of said character.
So I'd still put K. Rool up there, even without the costume switch mechanic or whatever else people can think of.
King K. Rool as a character is so different than anyone else.
Idk if this has been brought up, but what if King K. Rool was a stance fighter. I've been watching a lot of... *looks both ways* PSABR...
And I think it would be cool if King K. Rool played similar to Toro from that game. What I had in mind was that his Down Special would change his stances, his stances would only change his specials. So all of his smashes, aerials and tilts would remain exactly the same.
What are his stances? Why these of course:
This type of playstyle seems pretty doable on both versions, not being as memory intensive as the Pokemon Trainer who had to store different models (the benched Pokemon), their neutrals and their specials.
For the Kroc he would only be swapping costumes to go along with his specials. For gameplay purposes, he could probably stick with the classic three outfits.
I was really just adding to the pot by including the Mario Strikers tribal alias.
Here's a video of Toro's costume, stance changing playstyle:
Oh, I remember this post! I really liked this idea!
K. Rool being able to switch costumes is really suiting to his personality, and I hope that Sakurai would take the time to make such a mechanic work.
@BKupa666
A bit of both.
We can throw around really creative ideas to get people pumped about the character, but coming up with an idea that has little to no chance of happening won't really help the ranking of said character.
So I'd still put K. Rool up there, even without the costume switch mechanic or whatever else people can think of.
King K. Rool as a character is so different than anyone else.
I'd hope that we would base our uniqueness list on what is most realistic. It is fun to come up with anything that can make a character unique, but if we do this not only does every character have the potential to be at least A tier, but we would just be kidding ourselves.
We can't just say every new comer is A tier and beyond because there is a chance of it.
Realistically I do think that K. Rool has a lot of potential to become A tier though. His role switching is very creative and I can see him having moves as unique as G&W. Realistically K. Rool has more possibility of being unique than Little Mac (though if Mac has some star mechanic they could be close).
So I guess we're done with K. Rool? The general consensus is an A or an A-, so I'm going to place him right on top of Mac.
King K. Rool had a good day: A costume switching mechanic was brought up by @Bowserlick
and expanded on by @Moon Monkey
, and K. Rool's biggest fan @BKupa666
got in on the action to explain just how unique his favorite Kremling could be. It obviously worked out.
Prepare for a big day! We will now discuss Ridley, the badass space pirate from Planet Zebes! He could have a really unique flying mechanic, but will it be enough to separate him from the likes of Charizard and Bowser? We shall see.
Ridley would already be more unique than the majority of the cast if Sakurai specifically implements a method for him to perform normal attacks in the air. Perhaps, if he could charge his aerials, thus making those attacks like pseudo-smash attacks? I am not entirely sure, I mean, he would be unique if he predominately focuses on his air game (like Jigglypuff).
1. How many diverse options does this character have?
Ridley could potentially have quite a few options. He could be an all out sky-terror if they make is flying ability extremely good. He could have the ability to stay infinitely in the air if they figure out a way to balance it. Something could be made from his ability to change the pigments in his skin. He could also have some kind of a regeneration mechanic if you want to get crazy where each time he dies, he comes back as a different Ridley (regular, meta, omega) staying in omega mode after the cycle completes or he could have the whole other M life cycle (which sounds bad IMO). Getting even more creative he could have something like a blood lust mechanic where the more hits he gets in a combo the more damage the next consecutive move gets (this would fit well with Ridley's personality/viciousness). Being the space pirate leader (an unlikely yet possible ability) he could command different space pirate troops (this one would be a little weird though).
I think that the sky-terror option is the best one of these.
2. Is their moves or abilities diverse from the rest of the Smash cast?
Although there are already many air oriented characters in smash (Kirby, Jiggs, Dx3, Pit, Metaknight) I believe that Ridley could still use this ability very differently than many veterans. The thing that would standout the most in Ridley's flight compared to the rest is that he could be permanently airborne. While character like Kirby and Dx3 have many jumps, the are jumping and that is that. Pit and Metaknight on the other hand and actually flying when they jump, but still they can only fly so much.
To picture this ability I would advise you to think of it more like Peach's floating ability. Ridley would be able to hold his flight/position in the air. To make this different than Peach you would press a button to activate Ridley's flight and the same button to stop flying. Let's just say his up B could do this. Once in flight, Ridley will not stop unless hit hard enough or the player switches back to ground mode. Another difference to Peach is that he would fly permanently once the mode is activated. On the other hand (to balance this) similar to Peach when flying, Ridley would not be far off the ground. In this mode he would only stay about one full jump away from the ground (or in between a full jump and short hop). This way he could still be easily hit by other characters fairly easily. In order to get higher up Ridley could then use his jumps to ascend, but would fall back down to his normal flying height once the jumps are used up. While in the air, like Peach, Ridley's default a moves would be his air moves.
Sure a lot of the smash cast can pseudo "fly", but none of the cast members posses the actual bird like flight ability that Ridley naturally has.
Potential moveset:
B: Plasma breath/charge
SB: a grab unique to Ridley's location
UB: Fly/Fall
DB: Air attack
3. Has the concept of the character been done before?
As I mentioned before his ability is similar to Peach's, yet it is different enough for me to say that it hasn't.
3a. If it has been done before, is the character's way of doing it unique on it's own.
Different than Peach, taking small amounts of damage will not knock Ridley out of his flying mode and there is no limit to how long he could be airborne. Also instead of levitating he would be soaring above the stage and would thus change animations when moving compared to staying still. Also unlike Peach, Ridley would be significantly better at aerial combat compared to ground combat.
4. Does the character's abilities and moves provide enough to be entertaining?
Hell yes it does! Who wouldn't want to play as Ridley and be able to switch between a Bowser like monster and an aerial monstrosity?
5. How visually different is the character in terms of body shape and looks?
The likes of Ridley and his design have never been seen before in smash. He is bulky like that of a heavy weight, but skinny like Marth. He is a humanoid monster and the only other character comparable to his looks would be a mixture of a Bowser dressed in Metaknight armor. He could also been seen as slightly similar to charizard.
6. Does it fit the character well enough?
In the Metroid series, being a brutal sky-terror is what Ridley is most known for (besides being horrifying) and that is just what this ability would make him.
Rating: 8.5/10 What do you guys think about his uniqueness?
This is a TIER list.
That means it's official.
I turned my thread into a game of sorts, similar to the RPD, only we're discussing one character a day and solely how unique they could be.
This is a TIER list.
That means it's official.
I turned my thread into a game of sorts, similar to the RPD, only we're discussing one character a day and solely how unique they could be.
I know it ain't much, but it could be cool if Ridley could retrieve a jump each time an aerial connects. This way, he could extend air combos indefinitely (well not really, just as far as the player is able to reach/read DI) and truly become the king of the skies like how we want him to be. However, as a result, he would not get as many normal jumps as MK or Kirby, and either have a very limited Up-B recovery or none at all (instead having an attack). As such, his recovery won't be particularly broken and someone would think twice before going offstage against a recovering Ridley (for a gimp, for instance), since getting hit will result in you helping Ridley get back on stage, or even worse, him starting a combo and killing you instead. A mechanic like this one would pretty much define Ridley in a class of his own, similar to ICs.
I give him a 9.5/10. Am I also supposed to give a letter ranking?
@Empyrean
We are rating them in tiers organized by letters.
Letter grades help, but transferring the numbers to letters is easy. 9.5 is very high A or S tier.
I know it ain't much, but it could be cool if Ridley could retrieve a jump each time an aerial connects. This way, he could extend air combos indefinitely (well not really, just as far as the player is able to reach/read DI) and truly become the king of the skies like how we want him to be. However, as a result, he would not get as many normal jumps as MK or Kirby, and either have a very limited Up-B recovery or none at all (instead having an attack). As such, his recovery won't be particularly broken and someone would think twice before going offstage against a recovering Ridley (for a gimp, for instance), since getting hit will result in you helping Ridley get back on stage, or even worse, him starting a combo and killing you instead. A mechanic like this one would pretty much define Ridley in a class of his own, similar to ICs.
I give him a 9.5/10. Am I also supposed to give a letter ranking?
I think it would be appropriate if his specials were built for air combat, and lagged a lot if used on the ground. Since he's lanky, I could see him over-extending while trying to use a move on the ground, but in the air it would be graceful and quick. No other character has a build that's like his, so I have a hard time imagining him as not unique. I feel like "A" is a fair rank. Sure we have a few flying characters, but I still think Ridley brings something new to the table.
