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The Uniqueness Tier List: Captain Falcon, Robin, Lucina, Shulk, and Meta-Knight

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Raetah

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Uniqueness and moveset potential two concepts that i wanted to discuss long ago.
By the way moveset potential is sometimes used in many arguments supporting characters (or against some characters) but actually the moveset potential of any character is the same, infinite, only limited by the imagination of the mind-minds that design the character.
And exactly the same happens with Uniqueness, any character could be unique.
To comprehend this better we are going to the base, SSB is a fighting game that reunites NIntendo characters (mostly), in order to find a moveset for each character, an obvious option is to check the games of those characters to see what they are capable of.
By doing this, we can find some characters that have a moveset originated almost completely in SSB like Fox or Captain Falcon because they mostly drive vehicules in games. Or many other characters that even with representative moves based on games, they have some moves exclusive of SSB.

Here is an example of SSB irony:

*Rosalina: Is a character with near to no-potential moveset in cannonical appearances, it gets an unique moveset.
Ganondorf: Is a character with dozens of habilities and skills in many games, in SSB is a clone of Captain Falcon.
 
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BluePikmin11

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Any character could made unique by Sakurai, but which of the characters' abilities and moves will impress Sakurai the most to incorporate that uniqueness is the question.
In the case of KI characters, Palutena's light magic and her heavy reliance on defense brings the most diverse.
 
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Louie G.

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So let's vote on Palutena.
I would say A-, based on the fact that magic isn't anything new, but Palutena's defensive playstyle and Uprinsing-based moves can definitely make her stand out.
 

ToothiestAura

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And 6 years of experience with using the character as my main
That's your bias. While you've argued well for your character, you still have bias toward him. It's not letting you see that just having better control over momentum isn't the same thing as other systems. He has better momentum control than other characters, but ultimately, that's still a mechanic that influences everyone. This is a stat, not a system.

@ Louie G. Louie G.
I'm going to give Palutena a B+.
[collapse=reasoning]
I've seen a lot of good ideas for Palutena movesets: summoning light weapons, summoning Centurions, having a damaging shield, shield bashes in basic attacks, light magic turrets, homing light magic, using some of Pit's items, levitation, and a focus on defensive play.
Visually speaking, she's certainly unique. Not another blonde-haired princess, but a green-haired Goddess.
With no specific system to speak of, and wealth of interesting concepts I put her at B+
[/collapse]
 
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ChikoLad

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That's your bias. While you've argued well for your character, you still have bias toward him. It's not letting you see that just having better control over momentum isn't the same thing as other systems. He has better momentum control than other characters, but ultimately, that's still a mechanic that influences everyone. This is a stat, not a system.
6 years of experience is not a bias. Experience is not, and cannot be bias, especially in this case, where how much I like a character does not define how unique I see them as (for example, Toon Link is my secondary main in Brawl, and I fully agree with his position). Having experience with a character actually makes me a better source than those who don't, as I fully understand how the character functions, and what makes them unique, and I play as them with their unique strengths in mind. Trying to make judgements on a character when you can't claim experience is an inaccurate way of doing things. In fact, it is much more biased, because it is not based on facts, and only on conjecture and shaky knowledge.

I am not driving at Sonic having better control over momentum than others, I said he had a variable and dynamic momentum SYSTEM. Which no other character has. Every other character has a tiered and static momentum system. As I said, it breaks the rules of how momentum in Smash is supposed to work, bringing something entirely different to the roster.
 

ToothiestAura

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6 years of experience is not a bias. Experience is not, and cannot be bias, especially in this case, where how much I like a character does not define how unique I see them as (for example, Toon Link is my secondary main in Brawl, and I fully agree with his position). Having experience with a character actually makes me a better source than those who don't, as I fully understand how the character functions, and what makes them unique, and I play as them with their unique strengths in mind. Trying to make judgements on a character when you can't claim experience is an inaccurate way of doing things. In fact, it is much more biased, because it is not based on facts, and only on conjecture and shaky knowledge.

I am not driving at Sonic having better control over momentum than others, I said he had a variable and dynamic momentum SYSTEM. Which no other character has. Every other character has a tiered and static momentum system. As I said, it breaks the rules of how momentum in Smash is supposed to work, bringing something entirely different to the roster.
You don't have to be aware of your bias for there to be bias. You clearly love the character.
I think you're reading too much into Sonic's momentum; Sonic has the best speed/mobility, meaning the momentum aspects of SSB are more tied to him. You see it as unique, but it's really just the specific character's control over pre-existing physics of the game.
Also, why do you care so much about convincing me? I already told you my tier list isn't the tier list, but a guideline
I'd probably have to main Sonic to see what you're talking about, systems should be a little more clearly defined than that. Again, you're welcome to put Sonic where ever you see fit on your own tier guideline. Taking votes on potential characters is how rectify differences in opinion on them. Voting for Veterans spots isn't really part of this topic.
 

ChikoLad

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You don't have to be aware of your bias for there to be bias. You clearly love the character.
So liking a character automatically makes you biased towards them and think everything involving them is amazing? You should know that my least favourite game of all time happens to be a Sonic game. Plus, I don't like every interpretation of the character. And liking his actual character means nothing when discussing how he plays in a fighter. If I was biased, I'd be demanding he be at S Tier and that everyone accept that without me giving any good reasoning or without me providing facts (and providing facts is all I have done). It seems like you are just calling me biased as a form of damage control because you can't think of a legitimate counter argument to my objective points, which is all I have been providing. If you want my personal opinion on this topic, I don't actually care about it deeply or anything, but it is a good way of practicing my own debating skills, which is why I have been responding like this. It's not out of malice or butthurt feelings, it's just part of the fun to me.

I think you're reading too much into Sonic's momentum; Sonic has the best speed/mobility, meaning the momentum aspects of SSB are more tied to him. You see it as unique, but it's really just the specific character's control over pre-existing physics of the game.
I'm not reading too much into it, and that's a biased claim because you've already admitted to hardly knowing anything about the character. You've hardly analysed them, and therefore have no place defining what "reading too much into it" is.
I've already defined how Sonic has a different momentum system exclusive to him, keeping in mind how he can still use the standard, tiered one too. So the dynamic system cannot be defined as the same system as the static one if Sonic can in fact, use both.

Hey guys, it's not Sonic day! :p
What are your feelings on where Palutena should be placed?
But it IS the Year of Sonic as of today, though! Move over, Luigi! :V
http://wiiudaily.com/2014/02/sega-year-of-sonic/

As for Palutena, it would not be fair for me to discuss how unique I think she could be because I have not yet played Uprising, and therefore have no opinion.
And to be honest, I feel better discussing veterans as there are solid facts to go off of, where as discussing characters we personally want means there is no fair ground to compare characters on. And it could easily become a case of people having their ideas crapped on. Which isn't fun for anybody.
 

Louie G.

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@ ChikoLad ChikoLad
I do understand, and we should definitely talk about vets...
After we talk about popular and important newcomers. I made this thread so that people can see the potential in newcomers that they never bothered to see the potential in, or couldn't see before. Veterans could be fun, but that isn't why I made this thread.
 

Oniric Spriter

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Hey guys, it's not Sonic day! :p
What are your feelings on where Palutena should be placed?
From what I've read in here, leave her at A. Individually her moves aren't that unique but as a whole (relatively-heavy defensive projectile user) she clearly is.
 

ChikoLad

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@ ChikoLad ChikoLad
I do understand, and we should definitely talk about vets...
After we talk about popular and important newcomers. I made this thread so that people can see the potential in newcomers that they never bothered to see the potential in, or couldn't see before. Veterans could be fun, but that isn't why I made this thread.
I'm pretty sure the popular newcomers have enough people to discuss them. Not everyone can, though. Many more people can discuss the vets to some extent though.

I don't see why multiple discussions can't be held at once within this topic. This forum has features that make that possible (such as the tag and quote features). Some people could be discussing Palutena, others discussing some vets, and other discussing the state of the global economy! :V

In all seriousness, it would make the topic more active I'm sure. Personally, the only newcomers I really want are Professor Layton and Reggie Fils-Aime himself (though I do support Palutena, I have yet to play Uprising, so I can't say I love her, yet). Though I can't really think of much to say on them at the moment. And it's a bit unfair to have to discuss one character, especially since Kid Icarus is still a niche franchise.
 

Louie G.

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@ ChikoLad ChikoLad
Again, I get what you're saying, but look at popular threads such as Rate Their Chances that get lots of attention, although they only discuss one character a day. Not to mention that this is a brand new thread, and it's already got a couple thousand views and 6 pages worth of posts.
Personally I feel that it would end up chaotic if we just discussed whatever we felt like. Focusing on one character may not be exciting for some, but in the long run it can bring new people to this thread, not to mention the fact that most characters have a lot of potential, so we could throw around interesting ideas all day long and it wont dry out.
So I'll consider it, but really I think we're going to stick with a character a day.
 

Bowserlick

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I think Palutena is B. Mid-level B. She can have many interesting specials and she does have a staff. But I am not sure what mechanic she could have (except maybe some sort of levitation) based on her boss battles. She does also step-on some toes with a shield and light magic (which does have potential to look alot like Zelda's). She seems like a hybrid character based on defense.
 

Raetah

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Im idiot. I accidentally pressed post reply before ending my post. Dumb smartphone..
 
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ToothiestAura

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@ ChikoLad ChikoLad
The point I'm getting at here is that you shouldn't have to main a character to see it's system. It should be obvious. Perhaps difficult to use/master, sure, but obvious. I think what you're claiming as a system is really just advanced technique, anyway.

I'm not saying you're crazy biased towards him, but you really can't deny some bias. Bias doesn't mean you automatically think the character is great without any sort of proof: you've given reasoning. Bias can be unconscious and that is most likely the case for you. I'm not saying it's driving your entire argument, I'm just saying your love for the character is affecting you on some level. It's impossible to separate bias completely from anything.

You have legitimate claims, one's that have to do with advanced technique of SSB and that you attribute to Sonic himself do to your familiarity with his games.

What most people don't seem to realise, is that Sonic brought that special system to Smash. Compare Sonic's running speed to his fully charged Spin Dash speed. Note how Spin Dash is faster, and when you turn during a Spin Dash, the speed increase in the other direction is more gradual than a normal pivot.
This seems legitimately unique, as far as I know turning during Squirtle's or Yoshi's Side Special gives a very quick increase. This, however, is just a unique move and not a system.
Now compare Sonic's horizontal aerial speed to his speed when jumping in Spin Dash mode. It actually completely varies depending on your exact speed at the time of jumping.
While this is slightly different from other Aerial mechanics, I don't think it makes for a separate system. Squirtle's Side Special, for example, in air depends on the speed you were going in the air. Very similar, albeit a bit different.
Sonic can also kill all midair momentum using Homing Attack and can use it to bounce off of surfaces (best demonstrated with the infamous "never fall to your death" trick on Battlefield)
Killing mid-air momentum is not unique. While Sonic may able to do it the easiest with his Homing Attack, other characters due this through the use of Aerials or other special Moves. Jiggs can kill mid-air momentum with her punch move and Fox can do it with his reflector.
Bouncing off surfaces is unique, but, again, is just a unique move and not a system.
Smash characters typically can only move at set speeds of their own volition. However, Sonic can dynamically control his speed, like in his own games, and can even use the environment to do that.
What you described are advanced techs for controlling speed and momentum that are available to multiple characters. While he has some unique aspects, this does not give him a system.
 

Cpt.

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I question Sonic's placement being a bit too high. His F-air reminds me of a faster version of Falco's, while his D-air reminds me of ZSS's, and B-air reminds me of well... more than one character (probably Samus and Fox especially). At the same time, most of Sonic's moves kinda look the same due to well... you know what I mean. In turn, I find Pit could be higher for that Bow alone. What I mean is that isn't he the only character so far that's a dual blade wielder, not to mention that said dual blades are actually his bow detached (interesting weapon)? Sure, some of his moves remind me of other characters (U-air for Link, D-smash for Link, but he's also the only character that I know that has more than 1 reflector (Mirror Shield and Angel Ring) iirc, I'd put him just behind Peach while Sonic goes lower.
Sonic may have some similar moves as others, but he doesn't feel like other characters when you use him. Plus it is hard to not share some moves with other characters. I think his Bs are very unique, but similar to his other B moves. B tier is fair placement.

Also I'd give Palutena B tier as well for probable similarities to Zelda, Peach, and Pit.
 
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ChikoLad

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Actually, the system is pretty apparent, and I'm surprised you can't see it. I consider it a system as the momentum he has from the Spin Dash carries over when he initiates another attack/combos, and it feels really unique to use.

Though I guess it is pointless to try explain this to someone who hardly has experience with the character, so I'll leave it at that. I'm not being biased though. And if I was, I wouldn't call a truce.

And it's hard to be biased with all of the Sonic news coming out today, because my feelings on all the news has me so torn. :V
 

Admiral Pit

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Sonic may have some similar moves as others, but he doesn't feel like other characters when you use him. Plus it is hard to not share some moves with other characters. I think his Bs are very unique, but similar to his other B moves. B tier is fair placement.

Also I'd give Palutena B tier as well for probable similarities to Zelda, Peach, and Pit.
I suppose I can give you that, being he is fast as well, and can be hard to control. I know I can't use him well.

I still have my good hopes to Palutena's potential uniqueness since I'm confident that she'll make it in.
 

Cpt.

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I suppose I can give you that, being he is fast as well, and can be hard to control. I know I can't use him well.

I still have my good hopes to Palutena's potential uniqueness since I'm confident that she'll make it in.
I don't see why she wouldn't make it in. I do feel like she will have a lot of reflective moves like pit though with that shield always out.
 

Admiral Pit

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I don't see why she wouldn't make it in. I do feel like she will have a lot of reflective moves like pit though with that shield always out.
And I expect her to have a reflector at least. She just screams "Defensive character" when I see her, and I expect her to be as such.
 

Louie G.

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I'm going to extend Palutena's day a little bit.
I'll update with K. Rool later on, but I think she needs a tad more discussion about her tier placement.
I'm still leaning towards A-, right near Mac.
 

Cpt.

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I'm going to extend Palutena's day a little bit.
I'll update with K. Rool later on, but I think she needs a tad more discussion about her tier placement.
I'm still leaning towards A-, right near Mac.
I could realistically see her as high as A tier, but I think it is more likely that she will share too many similarities with veterans to keep her in A tier.
 

Louie G.

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I could realistically see her as high as A tier, but I think it is more likely that she will share too many similarities with veterans to keep her in A tier.
Her defensive capabilities and her unique stature would definitely make her stand out. I don't see Palutena sharing too many similarities with anyone besides Zelda, and even then the similarities would be minimal.
 

Raetah

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Palutena is not a character that i support. i have nothing against she but im biased and i think that others characters are necessary before she.
But thats an opinion about representation.

Personally, for what we can see in Kid Icarus and all those proposed movesets, she dont impress me at all. She is basically a Greek goddess that features a staff, a shield and light magic. In fact my mind associates her with Athena, that commonly is represented with spear-shield or staff. And i have the impression that both are wise. Actually both Link and Pit feature Shield, but they have different functions so we dont know how Palutena shield could act. Correct me if im wrong but Shield of Pit was removed, right?

Basically, I see her like a Blank blackboard. If she is unique or not depends in Sakurai Team. Everyone places her in B tier. But by the way I feel that irrelevant and the list kinda pointless. But in order to play the game... C tier.
 

BluePikmin11

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I'm pretty interested to what you K. Rool fans can make for an analysis. I haven't really caught interest in the character and I would like to see you guys change my mind.
 

AEMehr

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I'm going to extend Palutena's day a little bit.
I'll update with K. Rool later on, but I think she needs a tad more discussion about her tier placement.
I'm still leaning towards A-, right near Mac.
A- sounds good.
Lowest possible should be standard B, but A- sounds right on target.
 

ToothiestAura

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Actually, the system is pretty apparent, and I'm surprised you can't see it. I consider it a system as the momentum he has from the Spin Dash carries over when he initiates another attack/combos, and it feels really unique to use.

Though I guess it is pointless to try explain this to someone who hardly has experience with the character, so I'll leave it at that. I'm not being biased though. And if I was, I wouldn't call a truce.

And it's hard to be biased with all of the Sonic news coming out today, because my feelings on all the news has me so torn. :V
Not expecting a truce.
I rather think this best explanation you've given for his system. I think you've convinced me. I'd really forgotten what was like to play as Sonic (believe it or not I played him a lot when Brawl came out, it's just been a while). I still don't think it's a system, but his moves do flow in a way that no other character's do. I once knew the simple grace of Sonic's playstyle, but after a few years I only remembered it as simple. You're right, he does deserve A Tier.
 

Louie G.

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Alright, so Palutena day is over.

The verdict: Palutena's defensive capabilities and wide arsenal make her a force to be reckoned with, and even though she shares a few similarities with veterans, she can do enough to become her own unique character.

She will be ranked A- Tier, right under Little Mac.

Today's character: King K. Rool, the Kremling Overlord.
 
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Depressed Gengar

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As much diversity K. Rool could bring, I can see him being a Semi-Bowser-Clone. But, I hardly can see this.
Now, he could bring a wide variety of weapons, and most likely will.
Right now I'd say B+ or A. Most likely B+.
 

FirstBlade

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Not expecting a truce.
I rather think this best explanation you've given for his system. I think you've convinced me. I'd really forgotten what was like to play as Sonic (believe it or not I played him a lot when Brawl came out, it's just been a while). I still don't think it's a system, but his moves do flow in a way that no other character's do. I once knew the simple grace of Sonic's playstyle, but after a few years I only remembered it as simple. You're right, he does deserve A Tier.
Umm... I would not put Sonic on the same level as Kirby or Mr. Game and Watch, nor would I put him with Zelda/Sheik. Besides speedy movement/attack flow I don't really see any reason for him to be there. Momentum canceling isn't anything special considering a LOT of other characters can do it. Heck, Mr. Game and Watch can do it a lot better with his bucket braking technique. Also, I feel if it is something sort of exploited and it wasn't INTENDED by Sakurai it doesn't count (so bucket braking, chain grabs, etc. are irrelevant when it comes to determining uniqueness). I can argue that Peach feels a lot more unique than him and she is currently placed B tier....
 

Louie G.

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I think K. Rool can bring a lot to the table.
For a heavyweight, he is very well rounded (no pun intended).
Canonically, he is heavy, strong, fast, he can jump high, and he's got both projectile and physical attacks galore.
In terms of moveset potential, it's hard to beat K. Rool.
 

BKupa666

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Here is a list of the moves ideas I have that I think would make K. Rool worthy of an A ranking (since S is basically reserved for gimmick characters). Beware, wall of text incoming...

--Crown Toss: Would serve as a multi-hit boomerang, given its sharp spinning, dragging opponents either away or toward the Kremling King, depending on the time of contact. The crown toss could be chargeable, allowing the player to hold down the input to send the crown hurtling out further and further for more range, but at the risk of K. Rool remaining vulnerable, gawking at the screen here and there. The move could increase in speed as K. Rool takes damage, as in his boss fight.
--The Kredits: My pet Final Smash idea is for K. Rool to play dead, while the Kredits from his boss fight zoom up the screen, with their text serving as solid platforms that can carry opponents up to a Star KO like the Landmaster. The Kredits could be scattered around so that, even if a foe runs off the platform and tries to fastfall back to the stage, they may still land on more ascending Kredits. Alternatively, the Kredits could just hit opponents around, or could be attacked to send individual letters scattering around the stage as throwing items. From DKC, he also has Cannonball Barrage, but that may as well be called PK Cannonball, so yeah.
--Blunderbuss Balls: Could be taken in several directions. Regular chargeable cannonball projectiles could be fired, or spiked ones that deal additional damage and knockback. The most unique approach would be to allow either cannonball to fall to the ground after being fired, reusable as weapons like Wario's bike parts. The spiked ones in particular could serve as great team battle items, a bit like the Uniras. The player could also angle the trajectory of these projectiles, or even trace a path for them with the control stick while charging, allowing them to swirl around or bounce like in DKC2.
--Other Blunderbuss Projectiles: The blunderbuss is also capable shooting out barrels, which could contain any item in Smash context, as well as three different cloud varieties. Red clouds slow opponents' movement, bringing them down to K. Rool's sluggish speed, blue clouds freeze them, allowing him to charge up his slower attacks, and purple clouds reverse their controls for additional trickery. The blunderbuss can also serve as a Command Grab if its vacuum properties are used (this can also influence K. Rool's onstage projectiles), be used as a generic bludgeoning weapon, or as a rocket.
--Helicopter Pack: This is a relatively simplistic recovery move, though I have heard a number of suggestions as far as how it could work. Some say it could be used to give K. Rool "Dixie-esque" hovering, albeit with him falling a lot faster, others say he could gain multiple jumps from it before it sputters out. At times, you'll see people give it electrical properties as well.
--Electric Pods: Another pet idea of mine, here, K. Rool drops an electric pod to the ground, out of which a second pod extends in the direction of his choice until he stops it. From there, a thin barrier of electricity fires between the pods for a set period of time, allowing the otherwise combo-less K. Rool to juggle opponents off of it, or to camp from behind it, although he himself is vulnerable as well, and the pods can be attacked to disrupt the barrier. This is taken from his DKC3 boss fight.
--DK64 Stuff: K. Rool has his boxing gloves, which basically give him the vast majority of Little Mac's potential moves, and shockwave attacks, which could be used as a Down Special, a D-Smash or a D-Air and still function well. There's also his invisibility, which could be chargeable, or allowed in set bursts over intervals of time. And let's not forget a potential cinematic Blast-o-Matic Final Smash, either.
--Spinoff Stuff: K. Rool has spinning attacks, mine-throwing, various mechanical vehicles, and a Crystal Banana transformation from the Paon games, as well as a scepter from Sluggers, which, aside from generic bludgeoning, could feasibly be given magical properties.
--Miscellaneous: K. Rool has an entire army of Kremling troops from whom to borrow potential attacks, or even summon onto the field himself (namely the Kritters and Klap Traps as grunts). His crown projectile doesn't have to be limited to being a boomerang; it could be used as a disjointed projectile for other attacks as well, like maybe him tossing it up to juggle opponents. K. Rool has his golden gut for ramming attacks, also usable as potential super armor or a way to reflect projectiles, and a lengthy cape, capable of also reflecting projectiles, Mario-style, or even for slowing his descent from above, Batman-style. Realistic crocodile chomping, tail swiping and "the Death Rool" all fall under here as well, as do the various comical exaggerated moves or 'cheap' tricks he could pull. Hell, if you want a real stretch, he has 40 episodes worth of DKC cartoon under his belt which he can borrow attacks as well, like DK himself did.

So yeah, basically, piece any of that together, and you get a heavyweight whose playstyle emanates craziness, but with a strategic method to the madness, from tactical projectile use to trap placement to drawing in opponents and pouncing like a real crocodile. Kind of reflective of the guy himself. I believe this renders K. Rool easily worthy of an A placement.

EDIT: Oh, damn, how could I have forgotten the alternate costumes? Not saying I think this will ever happen, but if you make K. Rool a stance switching character between Kaptain and Baron, he could easily be an S character, beyond what I mentioned earlier. King would be a more well-rounded default state, while Kaptain would cost him his DKC speed and jumping for projectile prowess and Baron would weaken his attacks overall in exchange for more aerial dominance, courtesy of his helicopter pack. Throw in Boxer K. Rool, Pharaoh K. Rool, or even an all-new original Smash K. Rool if you want to spice things up more from there.
 
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Louie G.

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Thanks @ BKupa666 BKupa666 , all these possibilities can make for a really fun and zany character similar to Game and Watch and Villager in a sense, since K. Rool has so many attacks and weapons that he can pull out of the blue (keep in mind G&W's and Villager's high placement in the tiers). There is literally no end to K. Rool's potential, and I hope everyone realizes that.
 

BluePikmin11

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I suppose the cannon-balls are something that can be very interesting, I have not really seen anything like from the current Smash cast.
A pirate themed moveset could also be interesting and something that would gain my interest. I don't know much about the king, but maybe a pirate ship for a Final Smash?
 

Louie G.

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I suppose the cannon-balls are something that can be very interesting, I have not really seen anything like from the current Smash cast.
A pirate themed moveset could also be interesting and something that would gain my interest. I don't know much about the king, but maybe a pirate ship for a Final Smash?
The Final Smash that best defines K. Rool is none other than the fake Kredits from DKC.
I suppose there are a variety of others, but none of the others really scream "K. Rool" like Kredits.
 

BluePikmin11

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So I saw some footage of the Kredits, it's basically hyper mode for K. Rool?
Seems kinda weak to me, but I never really saw that kind of FS before, so I guess it's ok.
 

BridgesWithTurtles

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Let me start by saying this: I've been hesitant to reply in this thread because I am of the opinion that any character can be made unique. As has been mentioned, Rosalina is an astonishingly unique fighter, yet everyone expected her to be a Peach semiclone at best. Who would've thought that Mr. Game & Watch, ROB, Ice Climbers, and the lot would be fun, unique characters while Ganondorf, Toon Link, and Wolf (all of which have unique potential) ended up as mere clones (I know that Wolf isn't really a clone, but you know what I mean)? This all being said, King K. Rool is one character that I believe not only has the right tools (if his moveset is crafted correctly) to be fun and unique, but also has to be unique, as there's really no way for him to end up a clone.

I'm not going to focus on move potential so much as K. Rool's overall aesthetic uniqueness. People sometimes dismiss K. Rool as Bowser clone material, but this is ridiculous. While I'm not going to say it's impossible due to Ganondorf's unfortunate condition, it's highly improbable because unlike Ganondorf's relationship to Captain Falcon, K. Rool isn't built like Bowser. People compare the two and think "Bleh, two fat reptiles. Clone material." There really isn't much K. Rool shares with Bowser, though. Bowser is a turtle. He has a shell, which gives him a hunched-over, monstrous posture that compliments his beastly attacks. A savage headbutt Fsmash, tons of claw swipes, the occasional bite. K. Rool, on the other hand is a vaguely crocodilian creature of a different sort. Unlike Bowser, K. Rool doesn't usually give off a "monstrous" or "beastly" vibe. He stands upright like any normal human, and wears a crown and cape to signify his royal nature, in contrast to the stark naked, rough n' tough Bowser. Bowser has thick, muscular, tree-trunk-like limbs and feet to convey the image of a monster. K. Rool's size is less distributed, chiefly residing in his portly stomach, while he has muscular (but also lean) arms and scrawny legs, with smaller feet. His head is smaller, so he isn't likely to be used it for a crashing headbutt Fsmash. Despite his large size and strength, K. Rool doesn't throw that around in his fighting style. His physical attacks have largely been limited to charges, punches, and the occasional ground pound. Compare this with body slamming, shell-ramming, claw-swiping Bowser. While K. Rool has claws and teeth and such, that's just part of his character design. He doesn't really use them to fight. Rather than use brute force, K. Rool is insane and believes himself to be a crafty genius, which is actually rather accurate. He uses advanced technology, weapons, and crazy gadgets to attack mostly from afar.

This would all reflect in his moveset, I assume. K. Rool is built differently from Bowser and wouldn't move like him at all. I imagine he'd move more similarly to Wario than anything. He'd be less about using claw swipes, bites, and headbutts, and more about using weapons, his crown, and maybe the occasional "kingly" or "dirty" move like a cape swipe. Playstyle-wise, he'd be completely unique, being a superheavyweight with a focus on ranged combat. In his boss fights, he's usually less aggressive than Bowser, and is more defensive, laying down traps to keep the Kongs away from him. So instead of being a strong, close-combat fighter like other heavyweights, he'd forego a focus on gaining early kills and instead focus on complimenting his weight by keeping himself alive through the use of projectiles and traps. Failure to properly space attacks would leave him vulnerable thanks to high cooldown on moves such as the blunderbuss and crown toss, and he'd then be easily combo'd, just like how his long-range attacks in the DKC games tend to leave him open for attack. This would create a truly unique, spacing-based heavyweight that actually specializes in keeping opponents at bay, instead of rushing in and hitting them hard.
 

FirstBlade

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I think K. Rool can bring a lot to the table.
For a heavyweight, he is very well rounded (no pun intended).
Canonically, he is heavy, strong, fast, he can jump high, and he's got both projectile and physical attacks galore.
In terms of moveset potential, it's hard to beat K. Rool.
BKupa666 pretty much nipped this one in the bud...I was going to say some of that stuff but he totally blew me out the water. One thing he did forget to mention though was that personality of his! As we've seen with Dedede in Smash it can really make things a lot more interesting even if it doesn't necessarily add anything to gameplay per se. I can really see him having a bunch of crazy, zany expressions when pulling off moves and getting hit. Heck, even when staying idle I can see him making some of those notorious faces.

Some other things K. Rool has that I don't think BKupa mentioned is that shockwave attack he can do by ground pounding as well as the fact that he can shape himself into a ball and bounce off objects (aerial attack maybe?). I believe he can turn invincible for a very short amount of time as well (though I'm not quite sure how this would work in Smash). I also think a cool reference to his boss fights would be other characters receiving slight damage by footstool jumping him when he is wearing his crown.

A heavyweight, skilled in both ranged and physical attacks seems pretty unique on its own right but K. Rool takes it to a whole 'nother level.

@ BluePikmin11 BluePikmin11 , the Gangplank Galleon appearing in the background and shooting cannonballs and barrels of bananas onto the stage could work, but I think I mostly see people wanting it as a stage. As others have said, Kredits fits him more well anyways.
 

ToothiestAura

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Umm... I would not put Sonic on the same level as Kirby or Mr. Game and Watch, nor would I put him with Zelda/Sheik. Besides speedy movement/attack flow I don't really see any reason for him to be there. Momentum canceling isn't anything special considering a LOT of other characters can do it. Heck, Mr. Game and Watch can do it a lot better with his bucket braking technique. Also, I feel if it is something sort of exploited and it wasn't INTENDED by Sakurai it doesn't count (so bucket braking, chain grabs, etc. are irrelevant when it comes to determining uniqueness). I can argue that Peach feels a lot more unique than him and she is currently placed B tier....
Yeah, not momentum control as unique. Just how well his moves flow together seems more unique than some other characters.
Perhaps the tiers are too rigid; Sonic in A- makes more sense.
 
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