The Uniqueness Tier List: Captain Falcon, Robin, Lucina, Shulk, and Meta-Knight

[Cpt.]

Lucario is put in A? Then what is Rosalina, S? Rosalina and Luma feels like the epitome of A Tier to me, I'm sorry. Maybe I'm just a little more harsh on uniqueness.

Okay, going off of Louie G and Toothiest Aura I'm going to group the characters. Let me guys know if any of the characters should be moved:

S Tier: Rosalina and Luma, Kirby, Pikmin and Olimar, Megaman, Ice Climbers, Snake, Mr. Game and Watch, Villager

A Tier: Lucario, Wii Fit Trainer, Pokemon Trainer (as a whole), Samus/ZSS, Zelda/Sheik

B Tier: Mario, Peach, Donkey Kong, Diddy Kong, Fox, Wario, Pikachu, Yoshi, Bowser, King Dedede, Ness, Meta Knight, R.O.B., Captain Falcon, Mewtwo

C Tier: Luigi, Wolf, Link, Ike, Marth, Jigglypuff, Pit, Sonic

D Tier: Ganondorf, Falco, Lucas, Toon Link, Roy

F Tier: Dr. Mario, Pichu, Young Link

Can someone explain why Wii Fit Trainer would be so high up?

What mechanics does she have that would put her that high?

 

[Tepig2000]

Can someone explain why Wii Fit Trainer would be so high up?

What mechanics does she have that would put her that high?

None. That's why I think she is a B.

 

[Louie G.]

So we all agree on Mac being A-?
Should we go onto Palutena, or should I wait until later so that everyone can have a last word.

 

[Tepig2000]

So we all agree on Mac being A-?
Should we go onto Palutena, or should I wait until later so that everyone can have a last word.

I guess everyone agrees.

 

[Louie G.]

On to Palutena then!

The verdict: Little Mac can be very unique due to his risk and reward-type star system, essentially the opposite of Lucario's aura. His generic punch attacks may be a tad unexciting, but his quick combo playstyle can definitely make him stand out.
Mac was put into the A Tier, albeit a somewhat low position in said tier.

 

[ToothiestAura]

Seems fair, we should perhaps reopen earlier character votes if this topic gets more traffic in the future.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I'll think I'll try to do an analysis on Palutena later in the day, since I'm free in the afternoon so I can research on Palutena's moves.

 

[Cpt.]

Someone who is more familiar with the Kid Icarus series should point out all the abilities/weapons/magic Palutena has. I'm just going to quote the Wikia page for some potential ideas.

Spoiler

Powers and Abilities
Power of Flight
Palutena's primary abilities shown in the games are utilitarian, such as granting Pit, a flightless angel, the Power of Flight. This power only lasts five minutes, limited by Pit's wing's tolerance of the Power of Flight.

Some Other Powers
In Uprising, Palutena grants Pit grind rails, food, and vehicles to aid him in his quest. She is also responsible for arrows that guide Pit through levels (a power made possible through her "Palutena Super Sensor," as she calls it), and can expose weak spots on enemies such as Aurum ships (which she calls her "Power of Weak-Point Exposure").

Powers in Anime Shorts
In the anime shorts, Palutena is revealed to be a potions master, as she is able to (unintentionally) make vegetables into animate beings through an overdose of her potion. Later she uses her "Power of Caging" to try to stop the mutant carrots. After she learns that the potion can be washed off she uses her "Power of Maelstrom" to make it rain.

Power to Transform Objects/People
In Chapter 20, it is revealed by Viridi that Palutena turned Pit into a ring. This may be her own power or the Chaos Kin's.

Battle
While she is mostly supporting, Palutena is shown to be quite adept offensively as well. Palutena is the boss of Chapter 20 in Uprising, being controlled by the Chaos Kin, which must be destroyed while not harming the already weak Palutena, and defeating her instead of the Chaos Kin will result in an "I'm Finished". While she has been noticeably weakened by resisting the Chaos Kin for three years, Palutena shows that she is very adept in battle, wielding her staff and shield.

"Palutena Glam Blaster"

A fierce attack Palutena uses to finish the Three-Headed Hewdraw if Pit doesn't finish the last head quickly enough, killing it in one shot. {C


Palutena launching light at Pit

Added by Hasofcd
{C
Levitation.




Palutena preparing to launch her light projectiles

Added by Hasofcd
{C
Palutena has the ability to levitate, effortlessly and seemingly indefinitely; even when she swoons from resisting the Chaos Kin, she does so in midair. {C Projectiles{C


"Cover your eyes!"

Added by Hasofcd
{C
Palutena boost a plethora of light-based projectile attacks. She can create three balls of light above her either horizontally or vertically. If horizontal, Palutena will fire three bolts of light at the same time up to three times in quick succession, launching a total of nine shots with great horizontal range. If vertical, the bolts will fire one at a time from the bottom to the top, rapidly firing off up to nine shots in a flurry of light.

"Cover your eyes!"{C


"Time for a sacrifice!"

Added by Hasofcd
{C
Palutena raises her shield and charges her light power, then unleashes it blinds her target with light, if in range. This lasts for about three seconds.

"Time for a Sacrifice!"{C


The columns of light and the slow-moving halo

Added by Hasofcd
{C
Palutena shoots a large, slow-moving ball of teal light that hone in on her target. Palutena can shoot up to three in quick succession.

"Kneel before me!"{C


Slow-moving halo and its own projectile

Added by Hasofcd
{C
Palutena waves her staff and shoots three fast-moving columns of light across the stage.

"Poor you!"

Palutena launches a slow-moving halo that resembles her own across the ground. The halo hones in on her target and chases it, and it additionally shoots its own light projectiles at her target, up to three times before evaporating. {C


"This might sting!"

Added by Hasofcd
{C
Melee{C


Palutena preparing to use her Counter on Pit

Added by Hasofcd
{C
While Palutena seems much more comfortable at a distance, she possess a swift melee attack in which she twirls, surrounding herself with rings of light, knocking her target back. She will use this as a counter to being melee attacked in Chapter 20, or if her target is extremely close to her. {C


Palutena executing her spinning attack

Added by Hasofcd
"This might sting!"

When her target is nearby, Palutena raises her staff and zooms forward in a huge column of light, blazing toward her target at great speed. This attack also cover a great distance, allowing her to essentially move across the stage.

Summoning{C


Palutena summoning a Centurion

Added by Hasofcd
{C
Palutena is able to summon Centurions and Centurion Knights (depending on the Intensity) to aid her in her battle. She will only summon one at a time.

During the three anime shorts she displays the ability to summon storms, cages and a "video display" for Pit to view.

 

[FirstBlade]

I think that's good, yes. Sometimes it's hard to judge veterans since they can't seem groundbreaking after playing them so long.

Edit: Maybe Wii Fit as B Tier, it's hard to say, though. As she's the newcomer we've seen the least of. I only have an idea of 2 specials, and they don't seem very great. Time will tell, I suppose.

Thanks for the feedback and yeah it is hard to judge a character we've seen little of. I might move her when I get more insight from Sakurai. Currently, the only thing keeping her there is the surprise factor of the character, fitness inspired moves and disjointed hitboxes which in reality is not all that unique.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Personally I don't think Palutena's powers in the anime shorts should be involved in her moveset, her moves should be based off of what she did in the boss battle. Similar to how Meowth shouldn't really be given machines and weapons from Team Rocket.

 

[Oniric Spriter]

She's definetly unique: defensive type with her shield and powers, light magic based projectiles and regular normal attacks with her staff and shield for spacing.
Between A-Tier and S-Tier I would say.

 

[Cpt.]

Personally I don't think Palutena's powers in the anime shorts should be involved in her moveset, her moves should be based off of what she did in the boss battle. Similar to how Meowth shouldn't really be given machines and weapons from Team Rocket.

Yeah she would most likely be entirely based of of Uprising.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Since this is supposedly a "video-game" crossover, none of those moves from the shorts should be involved at all, when you think about it.

 

[Louie G.]

Here are my thoughts on Palutena.
Palutena uses a staff, which has not been seen in Smash Bros thus far. She uses magic, like Zelda and Rosalina, but her light magic can differ greatly from the other magic ladies. I feel that Palutena could share a similar side B with Zelda, only using a light halo instead of Din's Fire, but that doesn't interfere with how unique she could be. We are very short on heavyweight females, so Palutena can easily fit into that niche.

 

[Banjodorf]

Captain Falcon has inspiration from the comics/anime, so I'm going to say Palutena's shorts can count. But I doubt they even need to.

I've imagined her as a particularly defensive character with heals, delayed summons, and a very good projectile game. Something I think in practice could make her A tier uniqueness material, but on the surface would look like WFT's B-tier.

 

[Cpt.]

Captain Falcon has inspiration from the comics/anime, so I'm going to say Palutena's shorts can count. But I doubt they even need to.

I've imagined her as a particularly defensive character with heals, delayed summons, and a very good projectile game. Something I think in practice could make her A tier uniqueness material, but on the surface would look like WFT's B-tier.

Well Captain Falcon has inspiration from anime because he is from a racing game. That's not to say Palutena can't be influenced by anime though. It just seems less likely.

 

[ChikoLad]

Am I the only one confused by Sonic's low position here? He should definitely be above Mario at least. Mario's playstyle is a McBasic Shenanigan.

As for Palutena, I imagine she would be in the A tier in terms of uniqueness.

 

[Morbi]

Since this is supposedly a "video-game" crossover, none of those moves from the shorts should be involved at all, when you think about it.

Not when you apply precedent. Lucario, is the perfect example to correlate with this notion. Not only can the Anubis-esque Pocket Monster speak English, he can utilize the power of the aura. Something that directly pertains to his prominent role in the anime/movie. Obviously he is more associated with his movie incarnation than his video-game incarnation. He doesn't blatantly disregard the games, but aspects of his anime character are clearly the inspiration for his move-set.

 

[Tepig2000]

She's definetly unique: defensive type with her shield and powers, light magic based projectiles and regular normal attacks with her staff and shield for spacing.
Between A-Tier and S-Tier I would say.

I would say A Tier. S is for extremely unique characters like Rosalina.

 

[Morbi]

I would say A Tier. S is for extremely unique characters like Rosalina.

I don't necessarily agree, can you please explain why Rosalina is so unique? I mean, I thought it was an extremely unique take on the character, but as for the actual move-set? She is seemingly a generic marionette character. I don't see anything revolutionary. Maybe I am missing something. Care to elaborate?

 

[Tepig2000]

I don't necessarily agree, can you please explain why Rosalina is so unique? I mean, I thought it was an extremely unique take on the character, but as for the actual move-set? She is seemingly a generic marionette character. I don't see anything revolutionary. Maybe I am missing something. Care to elaborate?

A marionette character is not unique fighting-game-wise, but is something never seen in Smash before. If Rosalina was a guest character in another fighting game that had another marionette character, she would be E Tier at most.

 

[Cpt.]

Not when you apply precedent. Lucario, is the perfect example to correlate with this notion. Not only can the Anubis-esque Pocket Monster speak English, he can utilize the power of the aura. Something that directly pertains to his prominent role in the anime/movie. Obviously he is more associated with his movie incarnation than his video-game incarnation. He doesn't blatantly disregard the games, but aspects of his anime character are clearly the inspiration for his move-set.

I think this provides a good example for characters and their movesets. It seems to me that characters have moves based on what they are most popular in. In Lucario's case it is from the anime because he held a much larger role there than the video game. In Palutena's case she is more likely based off the game because it is more popular than the anime.

 

[ChikoLad]

I don't necessarily agree, can you please explain why Rosalina is so unique? I mean, I thought it was an extremely unique take on the character, but as for the actual move-set? She is seemingly a generic marionette character. I don't see anything revolutionary. Maybe I am missing something. Care to elaborate?

As far as Smash goes, she is certainly one of the most unique. To address the two characters people seem to think she plays like, she is not Ice Climbers (a team who mimic each other to enhance their abilities - yes, you can de-sync, but that's an exploit and they are not designed specifically for it. Only players who really main Ice Climbers know how to turn their separation on the field into an advantage, as Sakurai has stated their separation is supposed to be a bad thing). But she is not Olimar either (who literally uses his Pikmin as ammo, the weapon being his throwing arm).

Also unlike the Ice Climbers and Olimar, Rosalina seems like she may play well even without Luma by her side (for one thing, her recovery won't be gimped without Luma - where as one Ice Climber has pathetic recovery compared to two). In terms of how she is animated (I consider this part of uniqueness, as it reflects their fighting style - it isn't relevant in a tournament sense, but in a general sense, it matters), she has a very elegant and graceful style of fighting, that seems to mix her control over the cosmic elements with some kind of ballet and acrobatic flair (most prominent in her aerial attacks).

And even as far as marionette characters in fighting games go, I feel Rosalina stands out by virtue of being in Smash. Smash is a very unique fighting game, that relies more on spacial awareness and timing rather than long combos or charging up special meters. In those types of fighting games, the marionette characters actually feel more like Ice Climbers in the sense they just strengthen your combo/damage potential. The playing field is always too basic for spacial awareness to really matter, let alone for separating the puppet and puppeteer to be of any benefit. In fact, the only characters I have played as of this archetype actually involve the puppet being the sole attacker - so the character's meta-game relies on the puppeteer using the puppet as a human shield and as a weapon simultaneously. However, if the opponent gets by the puppet (or breaks it entirely), the puppeteer is completely helpless, as they cannot fight by themselves.

Rosalina, however, can defend herself without Luma's help. How well she can do this remains to be seen (damage output of individual attacks is still unknown, and other such factors are unknown too), but she can do so to some degree. And the fact that stages in Smash are more complex and intricate than other fighting games (where every stage is a flat plane, in most cases) means that Rosalina can use her puppet in a much more diverse way than she might in other fighters, because they can essentially take over two different points on the stage, or take on two different targets.

 

[ToothiestAura]

Am I the only one confused by Sonic's low position here? He should definitely be above Mario at least. Mario's playstyle is a McBasic Shenanigan.

As for Palutena, I imagine she would be in the A tier in terms of uniqueness.

3 of Sonic's 4 specials are spinning

I don't necessarily agree, can you please explain why Rosalina is so unique? I mean, I thought it was an extremely unique take on the character, but as for the actual move-set? She is seemingly a generic marionette character. I don't see anything revolutionary. Maybe I am missing something. Care to elaborate?

It's probably best to keep this in the scope of Smash. I doubt there's anything that could be done that would be entirely unique from any fighting game.

 

[ChikoLad]

But that's the thing - I always felt like Sonic was such a unique character because of his similar animations for some attacks, yet vastly different properties on each one. This makes him the most effective character if you want to use "feint" attacks. Plus, he can literally barrel around the stage as a moving hitbox, and no other character can do it like he can. And he is really fast, of course. I know how unique he is because I main him, and many things Sonic can do cannot be done with other fighters.

Mario, on the other hand, is mostly comprised of punches and kicks. That is not unique. Pretty much every character that does not use some kind of weapon has those to some degree, and Mario uses them almost exclusively.

 

[Tepig2000]

And he is really fast, of course.

 

[ChikoLad]

Maybe in Smash 64, Melee and Project M, but his Brawl incarnation was quite sluggish in comparison. He's fairly fast, but he's no Sanic Hegehog.

Also, everyone knows what makes Captain Falcon unique is his godly manliness.

 

[Morbi]

Sonic is still faster than Captain Falcon, no one can beat the speed of that hedgehog, it is something that pertains to his uniqueness.

But that's the thing - I always felt like Sonic was such a unique character because of his similar animations for some attacks, yet vastly different properties on each one. This makes him the most effective character if you want to use "feint" attacks. Plus, he can literally barrel around the stage as a moving hitbox, and no other character can do it like he can. And he is really fast, of course. I know how unique he is because I main him, and many things Sonic can do cannot be done with other fighters.

Mario, on the other hand, is mostly comprised of punches and kicks. That is not unique. Pretty much every character that does not use some kind of weapon has those to some degree, and Mario uses them almost exclusively.

I never really considered it that way.

 

[Bowserlick]

Palutena
(I am using BluePikmin11's questions)

1. How many diverse options does this character have?
Palutena has a shield and staff. She can use a variety of light-based projectiles. She can levitate. She might be on the heavier side for a female (along with Samus). While she may not have an outright mechanic, her specials could be her place to shine.

2. Is their moves or abilities diverse from the rest of the Smash cast?
Her staff and shield combo is a new style of fighting. Perhaps her shield attacks can reflect projectiles; allowing her to have regular attacks that have this feature. I can see a levitate mode allowing her to float above the ground and use aerials instead of ground moves. She has a variety of light based projectiles: one being a light projectile that moves slow and shoots its own projectiles like a turret.

3. Has the concept of the character been done before?
A heavy female has been with done with Samus. But her staff is a new weapon. Her light-based magic might visually be close to Zelda. Her ability to levitate can be used as a special or innate ability, but overlaps with Peach. Rosalina also seems to float slightly off the ground.
3a. If it has been done before, is the character's way of doing it unique on it's own.
Palutena seems to have a hodge-podge of traits from various characters. But she can have different takes on these effects. Her shield can be used as attacks rather than as a special ability ala Pit or a stationary feature such as with Link. Her ability to float can perhaps be a mode activated with a special ability such as Down B. Her magical staff would be completely new.

4. Is the character's abilities and moves provide enough to be entertaining?
Palutena seems like she would have a hybrid of quasi-new abilities and features. Maybe on their own they would not be exciting, but surely combined Palutena would stand out.

5. How visually different is the character in terms of body shape and looks?
A goddess with green hair. She would stand out no problem.

6. Does it fit the character well enough?
She does fight in her game where various moves can be pulled from. Her weapons (shield and staff) are present. Any magical light attack would fit her.

Rating out of Ten (Uniqueness): 5.5 - 7.5
I see her as slightly above average if she just has her staff and shield, heavy weight for a female and not much else. Sakurai however, could really make her specials interesting. It depends on his direction with Palutena.

MOVESET

Spoiler

Down B Levitate (ground): Palutena levitates off the ground about the height of Mario. A pool of light appears below her on the ground. She can only levitate if there is a floor beneath her (the pool of light helps keep track of this). While levitating she uses aerial moves. If there is no floor beneath her she will exit levitation mode and gravity will take its course.
Down B Levitate (air): Palutena will slow down her fall as long as Down B is held.
Side B Light Chariot: A chariot crafted from light along with reins hooked up to two Centurions is conjured and Palutena charges forward in her ride a distance before the chariot and reins fade into light specks. The Centurions keep flying straight ahead as projectiles. Acts as a recovery, Palutena will enter free fall.
Up B Pillar of Light: Palutena teleports a short distance in any direction just like Mewtwo's Melee Up B. However, when she appears a vertical beam of light shoots below and above her doing slight damage.
B Light Sphere: A press of B will cause Palutena to shoot a homing orb of light that does damage with no stun. If B is held, Palutena could charge her attack to shoot two or three orbs of light. If two or more manage to hit the opponent in a short interval of time, the enemy will incur a little hitstun. Cannot be stored.

Ground Attacks
A: Thrusts her shield forward a small distance to hit away opponents. Can reflect projectiles. Will break up energy projectiles into a scatter shot when reflected.
A,A...: Thrusts her shield forward and then holds it out. Holds out shield as long as A is held.
Dash A: glows yellow in a blaze of light and charges forward a good distance while holding out her shield. Far and fast and pops enemy into the air.
Toward A: Grabs staff with both hands (holding it horizontal like a balance pole) and quickly pushes forward with her staff. If A is pressed again, she will let go of her hold the hand closest to the orb and swing the staff forward with one hand like a baseball bat.
Up A: Light spirals around her as she does one spin. Can juggle.
Down A: While crouching, taps the floor with the orb of her staff. Causes a short vertical explosion of light that sends opponents up.
Up Smash: Holds up her staff. The orb briefly glows blue, shining like a star. Touching it will cause an Opponent to launch high. Big KO potential.
Down Smash: Creates her Halo pattern on the ground by slamming the blunt end of her staff down. Longer the charge, the bigger the Halo. It then fades away and acts like a landmine (very similar to Snake's).
Forward Smash: Rotates her staff and swings the orb-side from below her hip upwards in an arc, the orb leaving behind a blue trail. Hits opponents upwards and away. Moderate damage but good range.

Aerials Attacks
Forward Aerial: Swings her staff at a downward diagonal angle. Hit opponent's away and down. Moderate power.
Backward Aerial: Swings her shield sideways behind her body. Shorter ranged but good power.
Neutral Aerial: Spins her staff fast in a blurred circle slightly in front of her (like Pit's Side B).
Up Aerial: She pistons her staff upwards. If an opponent is hit, a splash damage light explosion occurs.
Down Aerial: Lays on her side in the air and smashes her shield down.

Throws
Grab: Touches the opponent with an open palm. The enemy floats slightly off the ground in front of her.
Pummel: Light slowly swirls around their body doing steady damage as long as A is held.
Toward, Forward, and Up Throw: The opponent turns into dots of light and is absorbed into the sphere. Palutena then shoots the enemy out as a beam. The end of the beam turns back into the enemy at the end of the attack. Careful, can be reflected.
Down Throw: Palutena crashes her staff on their head, sending them into the floor and bouncing back up.

 

[ToothiestAura]

@ ChikoLad
I don't really remember where Sonic was, but he should be with Mario on the B Tier. Not below him. I never saw Sonic's specials as that useful, his down special stays in place - amazing! His standard special homes in on targets you can't select - fantastic! I don't use him as much as you, though. So, I can't see how that would be useful. Nevertheless, similar moves do not make a character unique even if they do slightly different things. He is unique, but has no special system to speak of, nothing beyond speed and situational spinning techniques. Therefore B Tier.

@ Louie G.
Should we add the example Tier list to the first post?
Also, I think we should link Little Mac's spot on the tier to some sort summation of his potential.

I made some changes to it:
-Wii Fit Trainer moved to B-Tier.
-Kirby moved to A-Tier (S-Tier for Kirby makes more sense in the original SSB, but one move that's very original shouldn't be enough to get you to S).
-Sonic moved to B-Tier.


[collapse=tiers list]
S Tier: Rosalina and Luma, Pikmin and Olimar, Megaman, Ice Climbers, Snake, Mr. Game and Watch, Villager

A Tier: Lucario, Pokemon Trainer (as a whole), Samus/ZSS, Zelda/Sheik, Kirby

B Tier: Mario, Peach, Donkey Kong, Diddy Kong, Fox, Wario, Pikachu, Yoshi, Bowser, King Dedede, Ness, Meta Knight, R.O.B., Captain Falcon, Mewtwo, Sonic Wii Fit Trainer

C Tier: Luigi, Wolf, Link, Ike, Marth, Jigglypuff, Pit,

D Tier: Ganondorf, Falco, Lucas, Toon Link, Roy

F Tier: Dr. Mario, Pichu, Young Link
[/collapse]

 

[Cpt.]

But that's the thing - I always felt like Sonic was such a unique character because of his similar animations for some attacks, yet vastly different properties on each one. This makes him the most effective character if you want to use "feint" attacks. Plus, he can literally barrel around the stage as a moving hitbox, and no other character can do it like he can. And he is really fast, of course. I know how unique he is because I main him, and many things Sonic can do cannot be done with other fighters.

Mario, on the other hand, is mostly comprised of punches and kicks. That is not unique. Pretty much every character that does not use some kind of weapon has those to some degree, and Mario uses them almost exclusively.

I can agree with sonic being more unique than Mario.

To me Mario is like the base character for other character. He would be mid tier in terms of uniqueness. Average speed, average a combos, average aerials. His cape and fire balls are fairly unique though. Many characters have projectile reflection, but Mario's also turns people around. his up B is similar to certain recoveries (namely thinking or charizard, squirlte, Luigi and Wario), but he was the first to have it really.

Sonic's specials are all cool in that they are unique to other character. The fact remains though that Sonic isn't unique to himself. Is this a bad thing on our ratings of uniqueness? I would really say that. He is still different than every other character. Other than his B moves his A moves are standard and his aerials are too.

I would give sonic a B tier.

 

[BluePikmin11]

LADY PALUTENA:

1. How many diverse options does this character have?
Palutena has plenty of options to have, most of her attacks involve her staff, her various ways of using light magic, and her centurions. She uses these on her disposal to protect herself from opponents for a very defensive playstyle. She summons her small angelic centurions to surround her as a one hit shield, as she's able two of these, slightly similar to Megaman's Leaf Shield, only it's circling horizontally around Palutena. Her staff for her normal attacks are close-ranged, and don't benefit Palutena much, but her staff is able to cancel any projectile when she uses these attacks. Her light magic is certainly a force to be reckoned with as her ranged light beam (Side-B) to instantly summon a beam of light that can multi-hit the opponent at bay and can stop opponents from using their charge moves. Although this move cannot be spammed and there is a charging period for Palutena.

2. Is their moves or abilities diverse from the rest of the Smash cast?
Indeed it is. While magic has been done a few times before (Zelda for example), she uses her light magic and her centurions in a more defensive manner to prevent herself from getting hit.

3. Has the concept of the character been done before?
Defensive playstyles have been done before, but not to a lavish amount of extent as Palutena.
3a. If it has been done before, is the character's way of doing it unique on it's own.
The sheer defensive playstyle while using magic is unique on it's own. Light magic is entirely different from Zelda's, as it's arguably it's more generic magic-based than light magic.

4. Does the character's abilities and moves provide enough to be entertaining?
Her heavy use of defensive attacks as a character brings a number of options might bring the people who aren't good at attacking, but want someone that's protective to projectiles and physical attacks. This character is good for beginners who want to practice on mostly defense.

5. How visually different is the character in terms of body shape and looks?
Being a green-haired goddess already makes her distinct from the rest of the cast, unlike what most people say of her looking similar to Zelda.

6. Does the moves and the abilities fit the character well enough?
It fits the character very well, as she does use these moves in the Kid Icarus series.

Uniqueness Rating: 8/10
Overall, while she brings alot of options to the table, her magic and her looks has a bit of resemblence to Zelda, but the amount of defensive moves she has literally throws away the comparison between them. I would put her around A tier due to the new kind of magic she uses, but it's nothing spectacular and new in anyway.

 

[Tepig2000]

Talking about Palutena, I think she could be A-/B+. Sakurai can make her a bland character if he wants but there is room for uniqueness. See this video:

 

[Bowserlick]

Marth has a built in mechanic with the tipper. He brought three unique special moves to Smash. A counter, a combo, and a shield breaker. He also fights in a graceful manner with accurate spacing. While his slashes may not be all that exciting, they add to his gameplay and have the tipper mechanic. His style of play was new to Smash. I think he should be in B.

Ness also has his non-lethal Yo-Yo's for two of his smashes and has bizarre specials. A controllable projectile that can also launch him. A fire projectile that can trap an opponent upon hit and a Magnet that can heal him (first healing special in the game.) Plus he has a bizarre animated jump. I think he should be higher on the B list.

 

[Cpt.]

@ ChikoLad
I don't really remember where Sonic was, but he should be with Mario on the B Tier. Not below him. I never saw Sonic's specials as that useful, his down special stays in place - amazing! His standard special homes in on targets you can't select - fantastic! I don't use him as much as you, though. So, I can't see how that would be useful. Nevertheless, similar moves do not make a character unique even if they do slightly different things. He is unique, but has no special system to speak of, nothing beyond speed and situational spinning techniques. Therefore B Tier.

@ Louie G.
Should we add the example Tier list to the first post?
Also, I think we should link Little Mac's spot on the tier to some sort summation of his potential.

I made some changes to it:
-Wii Fit Trainer moved to B-Tier.
-Kirby moved to A-Tier (S-Tier for Kirby makes more sense in the original SSB, but one move that's very original shouldn't be enough to get you to S).
-Sonic moved to B-Tier.


[collapse=tiers list]
S Tier: Rosalina and Luma, Pikmin and Olimar, Megaman, Ice Climbers, Snake, Mr. Game and Watch, Villager

A Tier: Lucario, Pokemon Trainer (as a whole), Samus/ZSS, Zelda/Sheik, Kirby

B Tier: Mario, Peach, Donkey Kong, Diddy Kong, Fox, Wario, Pikachu, Yoshi, Bowser, King Dedede, Ness, Meta Knight, R.O.B., Captain Falcon, Mewtwo, Sonic Wii Fit Trainer

C Tier: Luigi, Wolf, Link, Ike, Marth, Jigglypuff, Pit,

D Tier: Ganondorf, Falco, Lucas, Toon Link, Roy

F Tier: Dr. Mario, Pichu, Young Link
[/collapse]

I would like some tiers to be better specified.

Rosalina and Luma, Pikmin and Olimar, Ice Climbers, and Snake are all unique from other characters. Villager and G&W are also unique compared to the cast, but what makes them lower is that they are similar to each other.

In terms of movement, Game and Watch is obviously different from every other character. We haven't seen much of Villager, but he looks like he would move in the normal Mario like fashion. Attack wise both are very unique. However, they are similar to each other with dash attacks. Game and Watch's bucket compares to Villager's pocket and their up B looks similar (Perhaps G&W's is still more unique here as I image the balloons to act like Peach's floating ability). I also want to note that villager's shovel looks similar to DK's side B.

I believe Game and Watch should stay S tier, but Villager should be in an A+ tier or maybe even A.

 

[Tepig2000]

Marth has a built in mechanic with the tipper. He brought three unique special moves to Smash. A counter, a combo, and a shield breaker. He also fights in a graceful manner with accurate spacing. While his slashes may not be all that exciting, they add to his gameplay and have the tipper mechanic. His style of play was new to Smash. I think he should be in B.

Ness also has his non-lethal Yo-Yo's for two of his smashes and has bizarre specials. A controllable projectile that can also launch him. A fire projectile that can trap an opponent upon hit and a Magnet that can heal him (first healing special in the game.) Plus he has a bizarre animated jump. I think he should be higher on the B list.

Ness is B+ in my list. I never looked at Marth that way however. Totally forgot his tipper mechanic.

 

[Louie G.]

Only a few characters deserve S tier.
They are characters who have completely unique attacks, and they've never been seen in Smash before.
So Rosalina, Snake, Olimar, and Ice Climbers are definites probably.

 

[UltimateWario]

I would imagine that Megaman's near-thorough reliance on projectiles would put him in A-tier. It's new, but it's not some spectacularly brilliant idea, like RosaLuma or Olimin.

As for Palutena, she has her staff/spear and shield, as well as using magic. However, using magic to fight is something we've seen before with Zelda and, to an extent, Peach. So her staff/shield combo gives her bonus points, but her magic really isn't anything new. We're not even sure what she's going to be doing, though, so it'd be harder to classify her than the rest of the Elite Four (Ridley, K. Rool, and Little Mac), who all have fairly-easily defined movesets.

I'd put her between B and A if I could, but what we ultimately see in Smash 4 will push her into either slot; B if she relies mostly on magic, A if she uses both her staff and magic.

 

[ChikoLad]

@ ChikoLad
I don't really remember where Sonic was, but he should be with Mario on the B Tier. Not below him. I never saw Sonic's specials as that useful, his down special stays in place - amazing! His standard special homes in on targets you can't select - fantastic! I don't use him as much as you, though. So, I can't see how that would be useful. Nevertheless, similar moves do not make a character unique even if they do slightly different things. He is unique, but has no special system to speak of, nothing beyond speed and situational spinning techniques. Therefore B Tier.

@ Louie G.
Should we add the example Tier list to the first post?
Also, I think we should link Little Mac's spot on the tier to some sort summation of his potential.

I made some changes to it:
-Wii Fit Trainer moved to B-Tier.
-Kirby moved to A-Tier (S-Tier for Kirby makes more sense in the original SSB, but one move that's very original shouldn't be enough to get you to S).
-Sonic moved to B-Tier.


[collapse=tiers list]
S Tier: Rosalina and Luma, Pikmin and Olimar, Megaman, Ice Climbers, Snake, Mr. Game and Watch, Villager

A Tier: Lucario, Pokemon Trainer (as a whole), Samus/ZSS, Zelda/Sheik, Kirby

B Tier: Mario, Peach, Donkey Kong, Diddy Kong, Fox, Wario, Pikachu, Yoshi, Bowser, King Dedede, Ness, Meta Knight, R.O.B., Captain Falcon, Mewtwo, Sonic Wii Fit Trainer

C Tier: Luigi, Wolf, Link, Ike, Marth, Jigglypuff, Pit,

D Tier: Ganondorf, Falco, Lucas, Toon Link, Roy

F Tier: Dr. Mario, Pichu, Young Link
[/collapse]

You are really glossing over what makes him unique though without really taking the time to analyse it. Also, his down special does not stay in place. It's really versatile - you can charge it, meaning it is variable in it's speed if you want it to be. From there you can simply go around ramming opponents on solid ground, or you can jump around, confusing opponents as to what your next move is, and you can also use it to start juggles, and of course, follow up with other moves. All of Sonic's specials are this versatile in their use. You just need to have a bit of initiative. And practice with him. Sonic has always been considered a more advanced character (which automatically differentiates him from Mario significantly, who is designed to be a character that beginners can use), as he has some of the best combo potential in the game (due to his speed - he can chase opponents down even after knocking them far away, and really ensure they get off. This makes up for his low knockback potential). And he is a high-risk, high-reward character, which actually is a reflection on how his own games play.

I'm not saying he's S-Tier. He should be A-tier though. While he is a CQC character, like many others, he embraces that playstyle more than any other character, and turns it into his own kind of playstyle, with a lot of huge mind games thrown in, including the his feinting potential, which is actually very unique to him. No other character has attack animations that look that similar, therefore, they can't play mind games like Sonic can. To me, taking a seemingly dull playstyle (like what Mario has - not that I don't enjoy using him, he plays fine and he's my Melee main, he's just not the most interesting character to use), and completely turning it on it's head and freshening it up is A-Tier worthy. I feel like Sonic did for close combat what Mega Man looks set to do for ranged combat. Sonic and Mega Man take existing meta games, and completely break their rules.

Also, saying you don't really use a character pretty much kills your statement when judging uniqueness, or anything detailed pertaining to that character. It sounds to me that you really aren't even following Sonic's meta-game when using him, and as a result, you end up playing him like you would other characters. Uniqueness should not be judged by whether or not a character can be controlled similarly to other characters. If that's how we are judging this, then this topic is pointless, as all characters can be played in a similar way (button mashing - and every character does have some melee attacks anyway, even if it's one or two). We should really judge it by how uniquely they can be played overall and when played at their full potential being utilised, and as such, only the mains of those characters can really say (except in the most glaring cases) how unique they are. As they actually experiment with the characters.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Actually, I don't think magic has been done alot before, as Ganondorf (to a smaller extent) and Zelda seem to be the only ones that use them.