The Uniqueness Tier List: Captain Falcon, Robin, Lucina, Shulk, and Meta-Knight

[ChikoLad]

Peach is considered a magic user too.

 

[FirstBlade]

Marth has a built in mechanic with the tipper. He brought three unique special moves to Smash. A counter, a combo, and a shield breaker. He also fights in a graceful manner with accurate spacing. While his slashes may not be all that exciting, they add to his gameplay and have the tipper mechanic. His style of play was new to Smash. I think he should be in B.

Ness also has his non-lethal Yo-Yo's for two of his smashes and has bizarre specials. A controllable projectile that can also launch him. A fire projectile that can trap an opponent upon hit and a Magnet that can heal him (first healing special in the game.) Plus he has a bizarre animated jump. I think he should be higher on the B list.

I agree with your points on Ness and a little bit on Marth. There is no order to the B list, at least not on mine so Ness is fine where he is. In actuality Peach had the 1st counter, not Marth. I also kind of feel it depends what you are referring to in Shield Breaker that makes it unique. It certainly wasn't the first chargeable move. The "shield breaking" aspect of it can be considered unique though. So yeah, I guess Marth has 2 unique specials and a tipper gimmick. The thing is though, there were plenty of other sweetspot moves before Marth. I'll move him to B, but frankly I don't think he is anymore than medium B material.

 

[UltimateWario]

Actually, I don't think magic has been done alot before, as Ganondorf (to a smaller extent) and Zelda seem to be the only ones that use them.

It hasn't been done a lot, but it's still done. Zelda's got a Magic Missile, a Barrier, Teleportation, and Melee Enhancement magic. She's pretty much got all of the bases covered, unless Palutena uses Summoning.

 

[ToothiestAura]

@ Cpt.
I think Villagers has more than G&W: the amount of turnips on his Up and Down Aerials vary, he has the shovel which buries people, the bowling ball which damages based on height, his Side Special Lloyd Rocket is a projectile/recovery/direct attack, he has the whole growing a tree thing, his Balloon Up Special.
@ Bowserlick
I agree with your thoughts on Marth and Ness.

More Changes:
-G&W moved to A-Tier (He is very unique, and two of his specials are among the most unique in the game [Oil Panic, Judgement] however his other moves aren't all that impressive.
-Marth moved B-Tier (Despite some lack-luster, generic sword attacks his sweet-spots, rhythmic and highly versatile Side Special, his Counter and his Shield Breaker [which has received a boost this time around, I'd like to know how much before making this switch final] he is moved.
-Ness moved to B-Tier ( Psi Magnet, PK Flash, Pk Fire and Pk Thunder? Never should have been in C-Tier. Possible A-Tier-material.)

[collapse=tiers]
S Tier: Rosalina and Luma, Pikmin and Olimar, Megaman, Ice Climbers, Snake, Villager

A Tier: Lucario, Pokemon Trainer (as a whole), Samus/ZSS, Zelda/Sheik, Kirby, Mr. Game and Watch

B Tier: Mario, Peach, Donkey Kong, Marth, Diddy Kong, Fox, Wario, Pikachu, Yoshi, Bowser, King Dedede, Meta Knight, R.O.B., Captain Falcon, Mewtwo, Sonic, Wii Fit Trainer, Ness

C Tier: Luigi, Wolf, Link, Ike, Jigglypuff, Pit

D Tier: Ganondorf, Falco, Lucas, Toon Link, Roy

F Tier: Dr. Mario, Pichu, Young Link
[/collapse]

 

[Tepig2000]

Actually, I don't think magic has been done alot before, as Ganondorf (to a smaller extent) and Zelda seem to be the only ones that use them.

Peach too. Her up tilt is considered a magic attack in Brawl.

EDIT: 'd

 

[BluePikmin11]

Peach is considered a magic user too.

I suppose it would be more of "love" magic, but it hardly feels like magic. And 3/4 her special moves are hardly magic too.

 

[FirstBlade]

Marth has a built in mechanic with the tipper. He brought three unique special moves to Smash. A counter, a combo, and a shield breaker. He also fights in a graceful manner with accurate spacing. While his slashes may not be all that exciting, they add to his gameplay and have the tipper mechanic. His style of play was new to Smash. I think he should be in B.

Ness also has his non-lethal Yo-Yo's for two of his smashes and has bizarre specials. A controllable projectile that can also launch him. A fire projectile that can trap an opponent upon hit and a Magnet that can heal him (first healing special in the game.) Plus he has a bizarre animated jump. I think he should be higher on the B list.

I agree with your points on Ness and a little bit on Marth. There is no order to the B list, at least not on mine so Ness is fine where he is. In actuality Peach had the 1st counter, not Marth. I also kind of feel it depends what you are referring to in Shield Breaker that makes it unique. It certainly wasn't the first chargeable move. The "shield breaking" aspect of it can be considered unique though. So yeah, I guess Marth has 2 unique specials and a tipper gimmick. The thing is though, there were plenty of other sweetspot moves before Marth. I'll move him to B, but frankly I don't think he is anymore than medium B material.

 

[ChikoLad]

I suppose it would be more of "love" magic, but it hardly feels like magic. And 3/4 her special moves are hardly magic too.

It doesn't matter if it feels like magic or not. In the Subspace Emissary, there is a "Magic" attribute you can upgrade with stickers. However, the only two characters that can use these kinds of stickers are Zelda and Peach. In Peach's case, it actually effects a surprising amount of her moveset (about as much as Zelda's, nearly). So she is officially one of Smash's magic casters.

(EDIT: I just realised this post sounded kind of condescending and obnoxious in it's wording. I didn't mean it that way, sorry if that impression was given. )

 

[Depressed Gengar]

Palutena doesn't really offer anything we haven't seen in Smash already and what we have seen that's not been done isn't really interesting IMO.
Very best she's getting a B- from me.

 

[Admiral Pit]

I can see Palutena being definitely unique. Aside from potentially being the first playable character to ever use a staff in Smash history, she could deliver different kinds if light attacks. Whether it's using it as a projectile, a pillar of energy, or temporarily blinding opponents with it, Palutena definitely can bring in plenty of uniqueness. At the same time, she still has a shield to go with her staff to assist her in defensive tactics. What some may not think of is the "Powers" she let Pit use. I'm certain Palutena herself could use some of her own powers (example: Reflect Barrier) into battle in addition to her attacks in her boss battle. Palutena can pick from any of her powers and make use of them. The defensiveness of Reflect Barrier, the sneakiness of Bumblebee, the offensive of Explosive Flame, or even the support of Health Recovery. I could go on about her powers.
What other attacks could she could potentially use? Staff swings, shield bashes, maybe a kick or something with her super huge thighs. Seriously, have you seen those thighs? Those look big and powerful enough to knock someone unconscious! As an option, there's always summoning Centurions, although I prefer if she didn't. As a potential Final Smash, there's always the mighty Glam Blaster or using that "This might sting!" move to a higher scale. I could always bring up her abilities from the anime short (mostly the Power of Caging as a new potential grab move), but it's up to others if they wanna count that.
Thanks to Bowserlick, I am reminded of Palutena's Levitating abilities.

Now let's get into her appearance and potential concept. Unique? Yes, most definitely yes. Where do I begin?
-Green hair (outside of alt colors which would be a first for playable characters)
-The staff and shield as weapons (mostly the staff),
-Is a Goddess (we can argue bout Zelda being one if she is later),
-Can potentially be the heaviest female character, or maybe be on par with Powersuit Samus (but even then she's a lightweight without it).
-May have chances to talk quite a bit like Pit does... Kinda, and we know how rare it is for Nintendo characters outside of Starfox and KI to talk a lot.

Now does she fit well? Well Palutena is the peaceful type and would be natural for her to have defensive and supportive attributes, and being the "Goddess of Light", I'd expect her to have a good amount of light attacks, too.


So overall, by using the 6 questions that were posted earlier, Palutena:
1: Has great diversity while being most likely to be rounded towards defensive long-ranged play, sort of like a slower, but stronger and longer-ranged Pit.
2: Has moves/abilities that would be potentially diverse, let alone using attacks with her Staff, which is a weapon that no current Smash character uses.
3: While being one of the females that don't look like princesses *looks at Peach, Zelda, and Rosalina*, but in turn, may share a few qualities with some of the ladies as well. Bowserlick, again, has explained those.
4: Has abilities and moves that definitely would entertaining if the right set of moves are implanted, and she has a lot to choose from.
5: Those huge thighs... Oh boy... But really there's that, the green hair, potentially tall (if we're rounding off from Pit's size, which she clearly is taller than him). "Green-haired Goddess" pretty much fits this. Thanks to BluePikmin11 for that.
6: Yes, it would. Defense and support would fit Palutena's style well.

And with that, Palutena gets in the range of a solid A rank to me. The only true way for me to change that to an S is if Sakurai gives her moves that dazzle me while staying true to many of the abilities and attacks that she's used in the game, though using anime short references may contribute. Knowing Sakurai, he might just do that.


Yay for large wall of text about... *uses Celestial Fireworks* "Lady Palutena!"

Should I forget something, let me know.

 

[Louie G.]

Palutena doesn't really offer anything we haven't seen in Smash already and what we have seen that's not been done isn't really interesting IMO.
Very best she's getting a B- from me.

And this is the perfect time for me to bring up an issue with this thread: Bias.
If you are bias towards a character, like I know that KingShadow is towards Palutena, then you must truly explain WHY said character doesn't bring anything new or exciting to the table, or WHY said character would be unique.
If you don't, your opinion will not be taken seriously.

 

[BluePikmin11]

It doesn't matter if it feels like magic or not. In the Subspace Emissary, there is a "Magic" attribute you can upgrade with stickers. However, the only two characters that can use these kinds of stickers are Zelda and Peach. In Peach's case, it actually effects a surprising amount of her moveset (about as much as Zelda's, nearly). So she is officially one of Smash's magic casters.

I see, maybe it's just me not really paying attention to details in SSE. @_@

 

[ChikoLad]

I see, maybe it's just me not really paying attention to details in SSE. @_@

I've played through the thing tons of times. So don't feel bad, most people don't know the finer details of that mode too well! :V

< actually very much enjoys SSE and will likely play through it at least one more time before Smash 4 comes out

 

[Louie G.]

@ Admiral Pit
I was expecting a wall of text. You brought the items from Uprising to my attention, and personally I've never even thought of that.
It opens up so many new opportunities for Palutena's moveset, making me even more excited about the character than I already am!

 

[FirstBlade]

@ Cpt.
I think Villagers has more than G&W: the amount of turnips on his Up and Down Aerials vary, he has the shovel which buries people, the bowling ball which damages based on height, his Side Special Lloyd Rocket is a projectile/recovery/direct attack, he has the whole growing a tree thing, his Balloon Up Special.
@ Bowserlick
I agree with your thoughts on Marth and Ness.

More Changes:
-G&W moved to A-Tier (He is very unique, and two of his specials are among the most unique in the game [Oil Panic, Judgement] however his other moves aren't all that impressive.
-Marth moved B-Tier (Despite some lack-luster, generic sword attacks his sweet-spots, rhythmic and highly versatile Side Special, his Counter and his Shield Breaker [which has received a boost this time around, I'd like to know how much before making this switch final] he is moved.
-Ness moved to B-Tier ( Psi Magnet, PK Flash, Pk Fire and Pk Thunder? Never should have been in C-Tier. Possible A-Tier-material.)

[collapse=tiers]
S Tier: Rosalina and Luma, Pikmin and Olimar, Megaman, Ice Climbers, Snake, Villager

A Tier: Lucario, Pokemon Trainer (as a whole), Samus/ZSS, Zelda/Sheik, Kirby, Mr. Game and Watch

B Tier: Mario, Peach, Donkey Kong, Marth, Diddy Kong, Fox, Wario, Pikachu, Yoshi, Bowser, King Dedede, Meta Knight, R.O.B., Captain Falcon, Mewtwo, Sonic, Wii Fit Trainer, Ness

C Tier: Luigi, Wolf, Link, Ike, Jigglypuff, Pit

D Tier: Ganondorf, Falco, Lucas, Toon Link, Roy

F Tier: Dr. Mario, Pichu, Young Link
[/collapse]

Ummm.....don't know if I agree with this one here. Chef for a projectile attack has unpredictable trajectory and is very close range. In fact, he is a very unpredictable character in general, as a lot of his moves have disjointed hitboxes and are stronger than you would expect. Majority of his moves can be multi-hitting as well. Is there an inbetween category? (Jk about inbetween).

 

[ToothiestAura]

@ ChikoLad
I agreed that I judged him unfairly, since I don't know his moves well, but just speed doesn't put a character in the A-Tier, if it did then Meta Knight would be there. To be A-Tier you need a special system, Sonic doesn't have one. Don't confuse battle ability with uniqueness.

 

[Oniric Spriter]

Palutena's light projectile (most likely her neutral special) should "follow" a character, the faster you tap the button, the faster it goes the projectile but less accuracy has.
Thoughts?

 

[Depressed Gengar]

And this is the perfect time for me to bring up an issue with this thread: Bias.
If you are bias towards a character, like I know that KingShadow is towards Palutena, then you must truly explain WHY said character doesn't bring anything new or exciting to the table, or WHY said character would be unique.
If you don't, your opinion will not be taken seriously.

At least ask me if I'm being bias. Cause I'm not being biased here. I have never seen much that truly brings diversity. All move sets I've seen are meh (at best) or awful (at worst). I'm only referring to what I'VE seen. If she does something "amazingly amazing" that I don't know about, then notify me of that. I'll have you know I haven't played Uprising. I've done some research, and that was Medusa's battle, which was it.
Not being biased. Just stating my opinion from what I've seen.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Palutena's light projectile (most likely her neutral special) should "follow" a character, the faster you tap the button, the faster it goes the projectile but less accuracy has.
Thoughts?

Seems like a unique type of projectile, sorta to how you would spam buttons multiple times to charge up Goku's Kamehameho attack, only the attack is at its fullest when mash the button after releasing the attack.
I like it alot

 

[Admiral Pit]

Seems like a unique type of projectile, sorta to how you would spam buttons multiple times to charge up Goku's Kamehameho attack, only the attack is at its fullest when mash the button after releasing the attack.
I like it alot

I see it more as standard B spam makes her shoot projectiles at a steady rate (slightly faster than Wolf's), while you can control the direction it goes (straight line), What I mean is Palutena will point her staff in front of her. By moving the control stick up or down, she will move the staff, and the projectile will be shot in the direction the staff is pointed to, a mixture of the Cracker Launcher item (without being able to walk around) and spamming B to keep it going. I may reconsider knowing the projectile has a slight homing attribute in the boss battle. >_<

 

[ChikoLad]

@ ChikoLad
I agreed that I judged him unfairly, since I don't know his moves well, but just speed doesn't put a character in the A-Tier, if it did then Meta Knight would be there. To be A-Tier you need a special system, Sonic doesn't have one. Don't confuse battle ability with uniqueness.

I mentioned his special system multiple times though - or rather, one of them.

I repeatedly mentioned how Sonic can "feint" opponents really well. This is only possible due to his animations for many moves being specially designed to be similar, but slightly different (the ball moves are all very different, but the differences in animation are only subtle, making them difficult to distinguish for players who don't know any better).

However, there is another special system I intentionally neglected to mention to see if anybody would pick up on it, and I will quote Sakurai himself on this one (taken from Sonic's page on the Brawl Dojo):

The original Sonic the Hedgehog game used only one button. I think that its simple yet exhilarating gameplay was its virtue.

And given that this game’s controls are also simple, I think it personifies his distinctive characteristics.

Even ignoring the fact that Sakurai specifically refers to Sonic as having "distinctive characteristics", let's focus on how he refers to the original Sonic games.

In those games, you only had one action button that jumped. When you pressed down, you rolled, and when you mashed the action button along with holding down on the d-pad, you could rev up the Spin Dash. Sonic can of course, do this in Smash.

However, in the original Sonic game, although these controls were simple, the game was very deep because Sonic had completely dynamic physics.

What most people don't seem to realise, is that Sonic brought that special system to Smash. Compare Sonic's running speed to his fully charged Spin Dash speed. Note how Spin Dash is faster, and when you turn during a Spin Dash, the speed increase in the other direction is more gradual than a normal pivot. Now compare Sonic's horizontal aerial speed to his speed when jumping in Spin Dash mode. It actually completely varies depending on your exact speed at the time of jumping. Sonic can also kill all midair momentum using Homing Attack and can use it to bounce off of surfaces (best demonstrated with the infamous "never fall to your death" trick on Battlefield)

Smash characters typically can only move at set speeds of their own volition. However, Sonic can dynamically control his speed, like in his own games, and can even use the environment to do that. When I play as Sonic in Smash, I actually nearly feel like I'm playing a Sonic game, especially in the Subspace Emissary. His movement capabilities have a familiarity that only Sonic fans would recognise. It's obviously not one-to-one, but the momentum based gameplay from his own games was indeed brought into and adapted to Smash. This is something that no other character has, at all. No other character has truly variable momentum-based physics. Sonic is breaking the rules that other Smash characters abide by for movement speeds, and understanding it is key to playing Sonic at a high level.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I see it more as standard B spam makes her shoot projectiles at a steady rate (slightly faster than Wolf's), while you can control the direction it goes (straight line), What I mean is Palutena will point her staff in front of her. By moving the control stick up or down, she will move the staff, and the projectile will be shot in the direction the staff is pointed to, a mixture of the Cracker Launcher item (without being able to walk around) and spamming B to keep it going. I may reconsider knowing the projectile has a slight homing attribute in the boss battle. >_<

So it's basically mashing Din's Fire?

@ Louie G. I totally recommend to bookmark the days we had in the OP just like how Brawler610 bookmarks a character's day and puts them in the list of character days people rated earlier in case people wanna look back on their day.

 

[Admiral Pit]

So it's basically mashing Din's Fire?

The catch is Press B to make her fire more projectiles at a steady pace. You can control where the projectiles will shoot, but you cannot control the projectile itself. The projectile will always move in a straight line, but it's your job to aim where, using Palutena's staff pointing as the indication. *thinks* Sorry if it's hard to explain.

 

[BluePikmin11]

The catch is Press B to make her fire more projectiles at a steady pace. You can control where the projectiles will shoot, but you cannot control the projectile itself. The projectile will always move in a straight line, but it's your job to aim where, using Palutena's staff pointing as the indication. *thinks* Sorry if it's hard to explain.

Oh I see, I think it would be cool if you could unleash multiple projectiles at once that move in a straight but slow line by charging, the longer you charge it the more projectiles it releases. For example if you unleash at full charge, you could make the projectiles your shield by quickly circling the control stick in a somewhat circular fashion. I think that would be easier to understand.

 

[Louie G.]

The whole Standard B move sounds really interesting and unique, but it is EXTREMELY hard to understand.
Right when I was starting to get it Blue made it even more complicated.

 

[Admiral Pit]

Oh I see, I think it would be cool if you could unleash multiple projectiles at once that move in a straight but slow line by charging, the longer you charge it the more projectiles it releases. For example if you unleash at full charge, you could make the projectiles your shield by quickly circling the control stick in a somewhat circular fashion. I think that would be easier to understand.

A shield of projectiles seems genius. I just don't want Kirby to have it if he takes her powers, and I'd have to get rid of the modified Reflect Barrier if it's her Down-B. There may be Side-B if it's a frontal thing.

 

[BluePikmin11]

A shield of projectiles seems genius. I just don't want Kirby to have it if he takes her powers, and I'd have to get rid of the modified Reflect Barrier if it's her Down-B. There may be Side-B if it's a frontal thing.

I think it would be more of a Side-B attack, since it would naturally work with you immediately start charging while controlling the direction of the projectiles.

 

[Louie G.]

I imagine this projectile defense thing looking like Protect in Pokémon X and Y if you use the barrier.
Is that what you guys are thinking too?

 

[Admiral Pit]

I think it would be more of a Side-B attack, since it would naturally work with you immediately start charging while controlling the direction of the projectiles.

She could add Reflect Barrier to her protection too, making it a unique move that combines both a projectile and reflectors at the same time. We never had a move like that yet. I may just have to change my ideas for her moveset because of that.

 

[Bowserlick]

A slow projectile that reflects other projectiles would give her approach options while also highlighting a more defensive oriented style.

 

[ToothiestAura]

I mentioned his special system multiple times though - or rather, one of them.

I repeatedly mentioned how Sonic can "feint" opponents really well. This is only possible due to his animations for many moves being specially designed to be similar, but slightly different (the ball moves are all very different, but the differences in animation are only subtle, making them difficult to distinguish for players who don't know any better).

However, there is another special system I intentionally neglected to mention to see if anybody would pick up on it, and I will quote Sakurai himself on this one (taken from Sonic's page on the Brawl Dojo):



Even ignoring the fact that Sakurai specifically refers to Sonic as having "distinctive characteristics", let's focus on how he refers to the original Sonic games.

In those games, you only had one action button that jumped. When you pressed down, you rolled, and when you mashed the action button along with holding down on the d-pad, you could rev up the Spin Dash. Sonic can of course, do this in Smash.

However, in the original Sonic game, although these controls were simple, the game was very deep because Sonic had completely dynamic physics.

What most people don't seem to realise, is that Sonic brought that special system to Smash. Compare Sonic's running speed to his fully charged Spin Dash speed. Note how Spin Dash is faster, and when you turn during a Spin Dash, the speed increase in the other direction is more gradual than a normal pivot. Now compare Sonic's horizontal aerial speed to his speed when jumping in Spin Dash mode. It actually completely varies depending on your exact speed at the time of jumping. Sonic can also kill all midair momentum using Homing Attack and can use it to bounce off of surfaces (best demonstrated with the infamous "never fall to your death" trick on Battlefield)

Smash characters typically can only move at set speeds of their own volition. However, Sonic can dynamically control his speed, like in his own games, and can even use the environment to do that. When I play as Sonic in Smash, I actually nearly feel like I'm playing a Sonic game, especially in the Subspace Emissary. His movement capabilities have a familiarity that only Sonic fans would recognise. It's obviously not one-to-one, but the momentum based gameplay from his own games was indeed brought into and adapted to Smash. This is something that no other character has, at all. No other character has truly variable momentum-based physics. Sonic is breaking the rules that other Smash characters abide by for movement speeds, and understanding it is key to playing Sonic at a high level.

Feints and momentum canceling are not unique mechanics. However, it does fit his character a bit better and Sonic may be more capable of momentum control than other characters. There's clearly some bias on your part, you can't deny that.
B+ is still the bet you'll get from me, others may think he deserves A-Tier. And, again, these are rating guidelines and actual placement will vary from person to person. And the purpose of this topic is to try to rate newcomer potential, so it's going to be all theoretical and based on personal opinion.

 

[Cpt.]

So here is my view on characters and there uniqueness for SSBB. I am judging potential characters based on this.


S: Stand Out
A: Very Unique
B: Unique
C: Average
D: Semi Clone
E: Almost Clone
F: Clone


S: Olimar, Mr. Game & Watch

A+: Sheilda, Ice Climbers

A: Kirby, Snake

B+: Ness, Lucario, Sonic, Pokemon Trainer

B: Peach, Diddy Kong, R.O.B (Mewtwo)

C+: Luigi, Yoshi, Link, Samus, King DeDeDe, Pikachu, Zero Suit

C: Donkey Kong, Mario, Pit, Fox, Captain Falcon, Marth, Jigglypuff

C-: Bowser, Wario, Ike, Meta Knight

D: Ganondorf, Toon Link Falco, Wolf, Lucas

E:n/a ( Young Link, Pichu)

F: n/a (Roy, Dr. Mario)


Feel free to debate me on this. Sometimes I can forget things about certain characters.

A thing to note from this chart > a large majority of the current characters are more unique than less unique.

More Unique 20: Less Unique 10: Average 7

 

[Louie G.]

I'm really surprised by some if the placement on that list.
For example, Meta Knight's and Bowser's.

 

[Cpt.]

I'm really surprised by some if the placement on that list.
For example, Meta Knight's and Bowser's.

Bowser
1. Many characters share his down B
2. Charizard and him have fire breath (primarily Bowser's of course, but this still hurts him)
3. His new side B has move clones (DK who gets senority, Icies, Mario, Luigi who both get priority)
4. In general he just feels generic to use when I play him

Actually Meta Knight I wasn't too sure about, but I decided to put him there because he plays almost exactly like Jiggs and Kirby (only difference is that he has a **** ton more priority). Most of his B moves are quite unique though.

 

[Depressed Gengar]

Yeah, Bowser honestly just always felt like that "unique, but bland guy".

 

[Admiral Pit]

I question Sonic's placement being a bit too high. His F-air reminds me of a faster version of Falco's, while his D-air reminds me of ZSS's, and B-air reminds me of well... more than one character (probably Samus and Fox especially). At the same time, most of Sonic's moves kinda look the same due to well... you know what I mean. In turn, I find Pit could be higher for that Bow alone. What I mean is that isn't he the only character so far that's a dual blade wielder, not to mention that said dual blades are actually his bow detached (interesting weapon)? Sure, some of his moves remind me of other characters (U-air for Link, D-smash for Link, but he's also the only character that I know that has more than 1 reflector (Mirror Shield and Angel Ring) iirc, I'd put him just behind Peach while Sonic goes lower.

 

[ToothiestAura]

@Thread
We probably shouldn't focus too much on where Vets stand, this is mostly opinion so it will be hard to come to a consensus. (It kind of seems to be taking priority.) Rating Newcomer potential is more possible because we vote on it.

@ Admiral Pit
Pit is low due to his generic, swordsman A moves. Two of his specials being reflectors seems lazy, not unique. Especially his Side Special which seems completely phoned in. His weapon is extremely unique and he has the only projectile which can be fire straight up and it can be slightly controlled. C seems fair, low B at most generous.

Guess we'll vote on Palutena tomorrow then?

 

[Admiral Pit]

@Thread
We probably shouldn't focus too much on where Vets stand, this is mostly opinion so it will be hard to come to a consensus. (It kind of seems to be taking priority.) Rating Newcomer potential is more possible because we vote on it.

@ Admiral Pit
Pit is low due to his generic, swordsman A moves. Two of his specials being reflectors seems lazy, not unique. Especially his Side Special which seems completely phoned in. His weapon is extremely unique and he has the only projectile which can be fire straight up and it can be slightly controlled. C seems fair, low B at most generous.

Guess we'll vote on Palutena tomorrow then?

*shrug* While some of his moves do seem lazy, being a retro character that we knew little about that came to the modern times, but I'm sure some of that will change when the new Smash comes. We know that said Down-B and Side-B have been replaced. However, I'd still at least put him above Sonic somehow, who I consider should be lower than he is now.
Count me in for some Palutena goodness.

 

[AEMehr]

This is a moveset for Palutena I made a year or two ago.
[collapse="Palutena, Kid Icarus"] (Click Image to play music!)
Debut: Kid Icarus (1987)
Latest Appearance: Kid Icarus Uprising (2012)
Palutena is the goddess of light and ruler of Skyworld. She guides Pit through the majority of his journeys, using her abilities to assist him to protect the humans of the surface world from her archnemesis Medusa. Despite her reputation for wisdom and mercy, little is known about her history and the motivations behind goddess Palutena.

Moveset
Standard Special: "Time for a Sacrifice!" - Palutena fires a large teal-colored slow moving projectile that homes in on opponents. She can fire up to three at once. The projectile causes above moderate damage and below moderate knockback.

Side Special: "Poor you!" - Palutena sends out a halo-like projectile, similar looking to her own, forward. It moves quickly and homes in on opponents, however not as well as the standard special. It can also fire 3 mini-projectiles that cause very low damage and knockback. The projectile itself does moderate damage and knockback.

Up Special: "This Might Sting!" - Palutena surrounds herself in a huge column of light and floats in any direction the player aims her to go at great speed. She can remain in this state for 3 seconds. Coming into contact with with Palutena causes opponents to receive moderate damage and above moderate knockback.

Down Special: "Cover your eyes!" - Palutena raises her shield and charges her light power, then unleashing it stunning any opponents within double the range of Black Mage's standard special. Foes will be stunned for as long as the move is charged.

Final Smash: Palutena's Army - Palutena summons her army to assist her. Centurions will be on the sides of the field firing arrows on enemies. Centurion Knights will be in the battlefield attacking enemies, they are resistant to 20% Damage. A Centurion Strongarm will also walk on the battlefield, grabbing opponents and piledrives them, they are resistant to 35% damage. A Juggernaut will be in the background firing bullets at foes and firing explosive rocks on to the battlefield. All forces will withdraw within the same time range as Pit's Final Smash in Brawl.[/collapse]
I still think the Up Special and Final Smash are pretty solid. I'd probably move the Side Special to be her Neutral Special.

For her new Down Special, I think it would be great if she adopted Pit's old one. She has a shield already, so why not use it? It would certainly add to the defensive-style she's already got going for her.
Another thing is that Powers were a pretty large part of Uprising and they are granted to Pit and the Fighters BY the gods (Palutena or Viridi specifically for Pit). So why shouldn't Palutena utilize them while Pit is a bit more focused on the new weapon types? Maybe alternatively incorporate the Barrier Power as her Side Special and make the Down Special another Power? As far as I can tell, I think a special or two involving Powers would be excellent for Palutena.

Also a deceptively heavy female character would be pretty neat.
I'd rank her at around A maybe? B would probably the lowest I could see her being placed at.

EDIT: YEAH so I read the posts made before mine and basically everything I said was already brought up by Admiral Pit.
So yeah...

Palutena's grab should be the power of caging. I want to see Ridley and Ganondorf in oversized Birdcages. The only person that can provide that is Bird Keeper Hugh and Palutena.

We all know who has the better shot to be in Smash.
SORRY PALUTENA HUGH FERSMASH

 

[ChikoLad]

Feints and momentum canceling are not unique mechanics. However, it does fit his character a bit better and Sonic may be more capable of momentum control than other characters. There's clearly some bias on your part, you can't deny that.
B+ is still the bet you'll get from me, others may think he deserves A-Tier. And, again, these are rating guidelines and actual placement will vary from person to person. And the purpose of this topic is to try to rate newcomer potential, so it's going to be all theoretical and based on personal opinion.

Uh, what?
How am I biased when all I am using to make my point is facts, including Sakurai's own statements on the character? And 6 years of experience with using the character as my main (and even more experience with Smash in general)? I've analysed Sonic's character thoroughly, and I've always defended his "boring" moveset because I was one of the few people who understood the real reason behind him mostly using ball animations for his moves. That's not bias when I only stick to facts, which I also have done here.

Sonic's variable momentum system is not only something that's unique to him in Smash, it's unique to him in general. Not many games play like Sonic games do, specifically the Classic games (where Smash Sonic takes most of his inspiration from). Not many games have that kind of physics on a playable character. The only similar games that come to mind right now are the most recent Rayman games, and even then, it's still very different. If Sonic brought a mechanic that is already very unique to him in the general gaming world into Smash, that automatically makes him one of the most unique characters in the game. That's not even considering his unique feint mechanics (which are not an intended mechanic for any other character - I'd argue it's pretty much useless to attempt to feint as any other character, as animations for other character's moves are always well differentiated, where this isn't the case for all of Sonic's ball based attacks). This is a cold hard fact, not a biased opinion.

Again, I think he just about misses S-Tier. That's reserved the truly unique like Rosalina, Olimar, and maybe even Villager. But I feel the likes of Sonic and Mega Man are definite A-tier, especially since they incorporate the kinaesthetics and strategies of their OWN games into Smash, which not many characters do. The other two A Tiers, Kirby and Snake, also do the exact same thing just as well as Sonic has proven to, and as well as Mega Man seems to. Therefore, I feel the four of them should be A-Tier characters together.