The Uniqueness Tier List: Captain Falcon, Robin, Lucina, Shulk, and Meta-Knight

[Pacack]

Tingle using ruppees as moves is like wario throwing bags of money at the enemy... he will never do that.

He does it in his game. Rupees are his ammo.

 

[Sobreviviente]

"A rupee throw here or there" you changed your mind

 

[Sobreviviente]

He does it in his game. Rupees are his ammo.

He also use them to buy stuff and seal deals with other characters.
But he doesnt exactly use them as weapons, is completelly different.

 

[Pacack]

He also use them to buy stuff and seal deals with other characters.
But he doesnt exactly use them as weapons, is completelly different.

What is it, exactly?

 

[Sobreviviente]

What is it, exactly?

Pikmins are "ammo", ruppees acts like a life bar more than anything.

 

[Deleted member]

"A rupee throw here or there" you changed your mind

As @ Pacack said, he does throw them in his game. He can do it in a nuanced way, throwing the rupee to later pick it up or something and it'd not be out-of-character.

 

[Shorts]

Tingle's B material as well, now that we've seen the balloon mechanic introduced it's nothing that makes him special, but I think his playstyle could revolve around balloons. He has various things he couuld pull out of his hat and use as weapons. Kooloo Limpah, rupees, dust ball, ect.

 

[Sobreviviente]

As @ Pacack said, he does throw them in his game. He can do it in a nuanced way, throwing the rupee to later pick it up or something and it'd not be out-of-character.

I only played the first game, and that never happens; that may be true on the second game or tingles balloon fight though, and if it is that sucks and ruins completelly what i think of the character....

My point is i could be wrong, and you are changing your mind again but i guess it could work that way, is just isnt really necessary.

 

[Deleted member]

I only played the first game, ant that never happens, that may be true on the second game or tingles balloon fight, and if it is that sucks and ruins completelly what i think of the character....

My point is i could be wrong, and you are changing your mind again

I don't like him throwing away all his rupees either, but it's no less in-character than Diddy Kong throwing bananas on the ground that are usually a pick-up or Mario using his cape as a reflector. You can interpret the rupees as a cool weapon with relative ease when you keep in mind how abstract Sakurai can get making the movesets.

 

[Sobreviviente]

I don't like him throwing away all his rupees either, but it's no less in-character than Diddy Kong throwing bananas on the ground that are usually a pick-up or Mario using his cape as a reflector. You can interpret the rupees as a cool weapon with relative ease when you keep in mind how abstract Sakurai can get making the movesets.

Except Diddy throws banana peels, not the banana itself (that would suck) and Mario's cape actually has reflective properties on mario world when you use it on mushroms, plus cancell projectiles.

I see, you dont like it neither, just happens that guess attacks for tingle is not exactly easy

 

[SmashShadow]

3:30

 

[Deleted member]

Except Diddy throws banana peels, not the banana itself (that would suck) and Mario's cape actually has reflective properties on mario world when you use it on mushroms, plus cancell projectiles.

I see, you dont like it neither, just happens that guess attacks for tingle is not exactly easy

You have me there.

Although I don't think just using the rupee as an attack is necessarily bad, maybe not throwing it is the best way to go. Maybe attached by a string he can pull back? Rupee yo-yo? Tingle's the kind to make up a creation like that.

 

[Holder of the Heel]

Looks like the thread has gone dead, I guess no one was really into discussing him.

Damn, I wish I was more aware of what was going on in these threads or I would've explained very thoroughly why Ghirahim deserves to be top tier in that regard.

Fortunately the few who did speak up did a pretty good job imagining the possibilities, thank you guys.

 

[Sobreviviente]

3:30

He used rupees to defeat a rupee, he didnt have a choice is his weakness, he stopped being tingle after the fight

 

[Rockaphin]

From what I've heard and from what I've seen from posts above, I think Tingle deserves a B.

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

Tingle? I suppose his final smash would be Rupee Storm.

Step One: "Tingle, Tingle, Kooloo-limPAH!!!"
Step Two: Rupees start raining down on the stage, damaging those who don't take cover.
Step Three: You Laugh

 

[Pacack]

Tingle: A

He has a ton of wacky abilities, that's for sure. Tingle has a couple of possible playstyles, but I'll outline my own vision below. Essentially, Tingle's specials include the items and abilities he displays in-game, while his physicals are primarily whimsical and zany poses, with a few quirks thrown in. Tingle would probably be more of an aerially-inclined character with his balloon.

Let me try my hand at making him a moveset:

B: Rupee beam/shot

Tingle fires a beam of Rupees at the opponent that do multiple small hits that flinch the opponent. Shooting it without charge only sends out s few rupees at once, but it can be charged to fire for longer. (From Tingle's Rosy Rupeeland)

> B: Tingle Bomb

Tingle throws one of his Tingle Bombs from the Wind Waker at the opponent in an arching motion. It is extremely large and has severe start-up lag due to how hard tingle has to work to throw it, but it is a great kill move and extremely useful for edge-guarding.

^ B: Tingle Balloon

A must. Tingle inflates his balloon, which canNOT be popped in order to differentiate it from Villager's up-B. He first shoots straight up a bit (a hitbox) and then his balloon must be guided left or right as it glides. Tingle cannot deactivate his balloon until he hits the ground or an edge, but this comes with the serious advantage of letting Tingle use his aerial moves in chains, and his fair, bair, and up air all move the balloon slightly in their respective direction; adding a layer of complexity to his recovery game that no one else seems to have yet. Learning how to use this move is vital in learning how to effectively play Tingle.

Down B: Tingle Shield

This move incases him a rupee-shaped barrier that gives him invulnerability for a few seconds. This move must recharge for some time after each use as to prevent spammability. It's especially useful for Tingle, since many of his strongest moves need some time to work well. This move ends up defining a lot of his playstyle, as it can be used before charging one of his killing moves.

A+A Combo: Tingle swings a bottle back and forth as if he's trying to catch a fairy. Low damage and knockback, but a good move to link combos with.
> A: Tingle kicks the opponent as if he's doing the can-can. Sends the opponent at a 50 degree angle.
^ A:

Tingle does this fanciful pose. It has a hitbox right on his hand and knocks opponents straight up to keep them in the air.

Down A:

Tingle stomps his foot on the ground angrily. This move has practically no cool down and can be used over and over to make it look like Tingle is angry. Knocks opponents outwards at a 10 degree angle. Has a small hitbox and honestly isn't too great a move to link with, but it does okay damage.

Dash attack:

Tingle falls over with a kinstone bag in hand before brushing himself off.

Nair:

Tingle pulls out a map and puts it away with movements that are a bit more exaggerated than are really necessary. The biggest hitbox is right when he pulls it out. It knocks the opponent outwards.

Fair:

Pose of the Tingle on the far right. It's a kind of weak move, but it moves his balloon significantly.



Bair:

Tingle looks backwards suspiciously before admiring a large Force Gem, then he puts it back. This move has two major hitboxes. One when he looks back and one when he puts away the gem. Both of these movements move his balloon if he has it activated, making it useful for recovery.

Up Air:

Tingle throws glitter upwards in two diagonal directions, similarly to how he does at the beginning of this gif.

Dair:

Tingle drops one of his signature bombs directly downward. If it hits the opponent, it knocks them directly upward so that Tingle can attack them again.

Up Smash: Kooloo-Limpa!

Tingle's signature magic words. He spins upwards and releases confetti and glitter, similarly to how he does in the final part of the gif above. This is, by far, his best killing move. Knocks opponents really high up into the air, with the power being focused closer to his body.

Side Smash:

Tingle makes this pose and hearts come from him. The hearts themselves are a deadly hitbox. The hearts would be larger than in the above picture, though.

Down Smash:

Tingle makes this goofy pose. Knocks opponents upwards.


And I think that's it. When it comes to his abilities, I think it's fair to give him a B. However, with his ridiculous appearance, whimsical movements, and overall quirkyness, he's definitely the character that stands out the most from a visual standpoint. He shows that the Zelda series actually has its share of quirkiness along with its serious plotpoints. Because of that, I think it's only fair to bump this grade up to an A.

 

[SmashShadow]

Tingle: B-
Bombs and balloons aren't really that unique but I'm sure they could find some interesting things to do with rupees, maps, and him being a fairy.

 

[L. Lawliet]

can i reccomend dr derek stiles from nintendos hit surgery game TRauma center? i feel he would have a very unique moveset and great potential

 

[BluePikmin11]

Since I can't get on my laptop now, I'm going to have to update the OP later. For just rate the Midna/Wolf Link duo and Zant

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

Midna and Wolf Link I'd give an A as far as uniqueness.

B- eh, idk

Side B- Jump Attack
Wolf Link pounces forward, and starts biting a foe if he lands on one

Up and B- Long Jump
Similar to Lucario's Extreme Speed, but can't curve.

Down and B- Dig
Wherever Wolf Link digs, a pitfall effect takes place at that spot

Final Smash- Spirit Summon
Wolf Link holds up a full vessel of light, and either Faron, Eldin, or Lanayru appear to attack Wolf Link's Foes.

 

[ToothiestAura]

Midna & Wolf Link: A
While three separate Links might be overkill, Wolf Link doesn't have a sword and can't use any of Link's equipment so there's no chance it can be a clone. Wolves are obviously fast, so that should be represented in their playstyle. I'm assuming the "duo" means Midna riding Wolf Link. So I also think that Midna should be involved with attacks. Midna's attacks should have more reach (with her hair-hand) and Wolfie's attacks should be quicker. As a Special (vB perhaps), they should use this move. Allowing Wolf Link to strike multiple targets simultaneously if they happen to be within range. Other Specials could include a Monkey-Flip-esque jump attack where Wolf Link latches onto the opponent an bites them multiple times, Midna's warp ability, Wolfie's howling or command grabs involving Midna's magic arm. As for a Final Smash, she can use the full power of the Fused Shadows or enter her true form for a powerful magical attack.

Zant: C+
Zant is shown as copying the attributes of several bosses in TP. Using similar powers and weakness. He can shoot magical beams when he does this. He is also shown to be able to change his size, which could be a possible FS. The phase where Link directly fight hims, Zant fights with two swords. His fighting style is eratic, so that could be interesting. He can also warp in a similar fashion to Midna. Overall, Zant is a sword wielder with some minor magical abilities. He would make a possibly interesting swordsman. Or a rather boring one.

 

[andimidna]

Ah, good. I'm not late.
Midna: S+
I'm not ****ing kidding you.
I think the most unique possibilities are Midna, Bayonetta, Zoroark, Lip, and Chibi-Robo.
The other 4 made, I'll be disappointed if the one I consider the most unique doesn't end up on top.
I have a long quote from the Official Character Discussion Thread coming in under 10 minutes. Please wait.

Here it is:
I'll add more later, I have some things to say that have already been said in Midna's support thread.
Sorry I'm in a rush right now.

Alright, I'm going to have to do this for BluePikmin's Uniqueness Thread so I might as well start now.

The use of PORTALS.
Now, we all know Zelda, Sheik, and MK already have the ability to warp. But Midna uses them in many more unique ways.

FIRST WAY:

She spins up into the sky and warps to a new location. Not too crazy yet.
SECOND WAY:

To portal down as a shadow. Pretty cool. But it gets better.
THIRD WAY:
[No picture]
With her Twili power, she can move large objects such as the Bridge of Eldin and a large flaming boulder, up into the air without touching them, and can warp them to where she wants them to be.
Think about it.
Midna could potentially have a move where she sends an opponent up a portal and controls where they land. Moving other characters by just raising your arms to push them away with a portal is definitely not in Smash Bros yet.

She has a full portal gimmick, but what else?

DIFFERENT FORMS:

This is a character with multiple forms all very unique. Well, some less significant than others.

MAIN FORM:

This form has many of it's own attacks including magic twili orbs that can break through steel.

She mostly revolves around Twili magic and her hair-hand.

However, she can use a sword and shield if she wants to, but she usually doesn't. She doesn't think the human's weapons can compare to the twili's
FORM #1.5:

She can turn into little balls of Orange, Yellow, Green, Black, and Gray.
As she is doing in the picture. She does this to move through walls and other things you can't normally walk through.
This could could be very unique. Moving though walls? What if she could go down solid platforms that are too thick to be regularly passable unless by going around them? Very unique.

She's more of a projectile based character, like Megaman.

She even has Shadow Crystals.

GHOSTLY SHADOW FORM:

She is not quite invisible but she's not able to be touched like this. This could be used like a shield or deflector, causing her to not be able to be hit or jumped on for a short time... this could make an opponent swing right past her, and she could get them from behind.

She also takes this form when warping downwards.
[collapse= looks cool, doesn't it?]

[/collapse]

WOLF LINK:

A MAJOR part of Twilight Princess is transforming into Wolf Link. And he has his whole own set of moves.
Claw, scratch, bite, pounce... what you'd expect, really, but Midna is different when riding Wolf Link.
Not sure if senses or dig are good moveset potential though.
The most important move is "Electric Field"

And an entirely different recovery ability:

She flings forward, he jumps off, she catches him in her hair-hand.
He hair-hand is very helpful to Wolf Link, she uses it to open doors for him. But more importantly, it's what the final boss fight with Ganon was centered around:

Definitely potential for a grab there.

ILIA FORM??:

Yes, what you see here is Midna. And yes, like Zoroark's illusion ability, Midna can change into the appearance of any character she wants to. She does this with Ilia and Colin.
But would look like an opponent on the screen if translated into a move that would attempt to trick the opponent(s).

FUSED SHADOW BEAST FORM:

You see this giant thing here? It fights with a spear! Final Smash!!!Yes?

PRINCESS FORM:

It's basically a whole new character.
If Imp was centered on the hair, Princess would take the magic...

but what else?

Taking from the game, a tear projectile, she pushes it forward with one swipe of her hand and it shatters a mirror, small but powerful.
But that would be like a slower Melee Din's Fire, so how about the Twilight Sword?

Or Link's unused items?

Yea, there's less to work with when discussing her humanoid form, but she could by a magic character, a sword character, or an item character, easily.

I'm assuming you've played the game. So I don't want to go in full detail on her more basic attacks... but these are gimmicks some seem to forget.
And are very unique.
Easily among the most unique.

Also, here's a perfect color swap... her sick form

Perfect color swap for Wolf Link too:

The Golden Wolf, the Hero's Shade, the Hero of Time, Link from Ocarina of Time. Can't get much more specific than that.

Such agile.......

Interested? Yea? YEA?
Good!
Because I'll be going way more in depth on the Uniqueness Tier list thread soon, and I'll probably post it here too!
Zant: A+
For being able to spawn enemies, I'll add more later.

 

[StaffofSmashing]

Midna + Wolf Link: B

The set has many possibilities. I think there would be a lot of clawing and biting, because that is what a wolf naturally does. Midna could throw on her magic for some aesthetic flare, and a Final Smash move could be that one move where the 2 attack all the shadow spirits. The reason they get a B, though, is there isn't much else I can't think of outside of that.

Zant: C+

I have no idea who this guy is, so I'm gonna go do research;

*does research*

Ooo, That seems cool. He seems to have a lot of magic stuff like Midna, and a few sword moves that could work. Sorry I got nothing else.

 

[andimidna]

Midna + Wolf Link: B

The set has many possibilities. I think there would be a lot of clawing and biting, because that is what a wolf naturally does. Midna could throw on her magic for some aesthetic flare, and a Final Smash move could be that one move where the 2 attack all the shadow spirits. The reason they get a B, though, is there isn't much else I can't think of outside of that.

Zant: C+

I have no idea who this guy is, so I'm gonna go do research;

*does research*

Ooo, That seems cool. He seems to have a lot of magic stuff like Midna, and a few sword moves that could work. Sorry I got nothing else.

Look at the post right above you.
In the combo Midna and Wolf Link, Wolf Link actually isn't the most important aspect, you have to count in Midna's warping, telekinesis-esque abilities, illusion abilities, transformation abilities, magic abilities, control over Link's items, hair-hand abilities.


I don't think there's a single character that deserves higher than Midna, maybe Bayonetta, but that's it.

If you don't know who Zant is, then you have never played Twilight Princess, so you shouldn't be rating the Twilight Princess
You have to play the full game to know her full potential.

Also I forgot something about her hair.
It doesn't always form a hand.

When Midna kills Zant, her hair forms into multiple long spears. Or at least that's the best way I can describe it. My phone won't let me upload the picture. But you can google "Midna hair kill Zant" it's the first picture and will direct you straight to her thread.

Since you didn't tag anybody...
@lonekonwolf @KenithTheGatherer @Erotic&Heretic
I'm pretty sure they've all beat Twilight Princess. So I think they could add to the discussion.

 

[Deleted member]

Midna: S

@ andimidna did a good job on this one. Midna has everything you can imagine - the hair can be used for melee, her magic is just about the polar opposite of Zelda's and she has a bazillion transformation, summons - you name it, it's likely it can be done by Midna.

The hair is completely intangible as an object, able to transform into any shape to grab, attack or defend, making it a great tool for her grab game and standards. Midna's imp body is completely estranged from any playable character in Brawl and there are few who have this top-heavy, naturally floaty character design. The closest I can manage to think of is Earthbound boys, if they had the power of levitation. The hair writes itself and if she has the wolf, melee in air or on the ground is practically second-nature.

As far as magic goes, Midna can use all sorts of inspiration from the game and uses her own frequently. This involves teleportation, levitation (of objects) and transformations (although suited more for a final smash). If Zelda can borrow Link's spells in Ocarina of Time, it goes without saying Midna can do the same for Link. There actually isn't all that much to borrow, but she already has enough she can do to easily fill out specials. I'd imagine it'd be something like a teleport up special, easily differentiated from Zelda's, a move based on her "encircle" attack in Twilight Princess to attack from enemy to enemy. The other two would be magic, maybe a projectile or a command grab using the hair, similar to Bowser's or Ganondorf's.

The one thing I will say is I am strictly opposed to human form Midna and I don't think it's nearly as unique, Wolf Link may be okay for melee but I don't think he is necessary.

It's funny how Midna shares the hair attacks of Bayonetta, another S tier. I wouldn't put her at the very top, although that aside I don't mind where in S tier she goes.

Zant: A

I think you guys are seriously underrating Zant. To start, his double scimitar sword style is unique to Smash and all at once leapfrogs Toon Ganondorf's potential. He not only uses two swords, his personality comes across far stronger and his attacks are way more fun to interpret into Smash. These include moves where he turns so fast he becomes a moving spinning top, just going nuts using the two swords like cleavers and comically gung-ho swipes that make the standards very easy, plus the aerials to a degree. I would see Zant take out the swords much like Lucas takes out his wooden stick - it's the kind of character who is all over the place and justifies use of hammerspace props.

Onto the magic he can use, he's another obvious teleport user, although is shown to use it during his attacks which opens up an interesting dynamic. Zant has an obvious projectile for neutral special that he spams from everywhere throughout his battle. He can likely summon one minion of Zant Head, Wallmaster or Shadow Beasts. Like Ghirahim after him, Zant can summon protective walls practically wherever he likes, and is the master of his dominion who can use them for moves - notably his spinning top move, to change direction or possibly build momentum. All in all Zant has an incredibly good amount of material for a set of specials, standards and aerials. The only hard part is that he doesn't have much interesting going for a grab game, and smashes are a bit tough too. However, a personality like Zant's that is shown to be creatively sadistic with his magic can undoubtedly be used to make something fresh.

 

[Sobreviviente]

I dont get why you are comparing zant to midna/wolflink blue, but ok.

Midna and Wolf Link

Look at this guy:

Spoiler

hopefully i get your attention.

I see wolf link getting basically all the normals and midna perfoming specials and a hair punch' forward smash.
A timing character for the most.
Neutral B: Bullet Rain.

Spoiler

Midna will summon a twilight portal in front of her and start firing tiny rocks and various things to the opponent. This can be charged to get bigger and slower projectiles. Move finish after 2 seconds.

Side B: Chain of Light.

Spoiler

Midna will spin her hair around her and then throw it. The longer you hold it the farther it goes, it can grab an enemy from behind with right timing. Once she grabs it, she throws it at the opposite side.

Up B:

Spoiler

she teleports

Down B: Off Waves

Spoiler

Midna will drawn a dark circle with her hair around wolflink, If you realese it and (A) an enemy/item/projectile is inside (or many) wolflink will quickly ram into them, enemies will get paralized until the move ends (like when ganondorf FS, this not happen if you dodge with the right timing but wolflink can still hurt you), projectiles will be destroyed without hitting you and midna will grab all the items (similar to rosalina they will appear close to you if there are too many), but if (B) there is nothing to do will does a spin, a very strong spin, and hitting foes with it needs correct timing.

You are vulnerable while doing it though, and if you hold it for too long will spin automatically.
FS: Twilight Sword.

Spoiler

Easy to guess i think.

Zant

Toon Ganondorf Clone but with some feet moves is perfect, faster and smaller.
He also share abbilties with midna (o now i get why you mixed them...) so following the idea of her moves:

Neutral B: Summon Monsters.
Instead of rocks a monster, a bit random which he summons (weird birds, those black dudes/rats, deku baba), but again, the longer it charges the bigger the monster he summons.

Side B: Ghost Projection.

Spoiler

This is new in smash, like ninja gaiden he summons a copy of himself; it appears on the direction you are pressing, including diagonals. It mirrows all his moves, and he can launch it to the enemy when he press side B again. It cant copy neutral moves.

Down B:
Instead of ran into the foes he simply paralize them, items will be attracted to him, and then he can do what he wants with the enemy is a smaller area than midna (like half the size) but he can move it around him and is harder to dodge.

FS: Twilight Realm.

Spoiler

Stage goes twilight and monsters appear everywhere. Characters are turned into spirits getting easy to be knockd off. Finish after some seconds.



I love zelda :B

 

[BluePikmin11]

Tomorrow we'll be rating other veteran franchises' characters,
We'll be rating newcomers from Animal Crossing, Kirby, Starfox, F-Zero, Mother, Yoshi, and Warioware.
This is basically our second to last week of viable newcomers, then it's up to you guys what you guys want to rate in uniqueness.
Then we'll move on to the other retros that we never got the time to rate the last week.
Time goes by really fast, we really got to rate so many newcomers since this thread started.

 

[Starbound]

Zant: B
I gave this to Toon Ganon and Zant is pretty similar with the dual swords concept so yeah...

Midna+Wolf Link: C
Grabbing stuff with a hand is really cool, but I doubt a whole moveset can be made interesting with just using one giant hand.

 

[Deleted member]

Tomorrow we'll be rating other veteran franchises' characters,
We'll be rating newcomers from Animal Crossing, Kirby, Starfox, F-Zero, Mother, Yoshi, and Warioware.
This is basically our second to last week of viable newcomers, then it's up to you guys what you guys want to rate in uniqueness.
Then we'll move on to the other retros that we never got the time to rate the last week.
Time goes by really fast, we really got to rate so many newcomers since this thread started.

rating newcomers from Animal Crossing, Kirby, Starfox, F-Zero, Mother, Yoshi, and Warioware.

Kirby, Starfox, F-Zero,

Kirby, Starfox, F-Zero,

Hoo boy, things are probably gonna get a little messy... (I'll try to be there for Star Fox)

 

[Sobreviviente]

Kirby, Yoshi,

Be sure to tag me on those ones ;D

 

[andimidna]

Hey BluePikmin12, I feel like people are under rating Midna and Wolf Link's uniqueness because of Wolf Link. Solo Midna might be good to rate, but I think the best way to go for Midna is to be able to switch between alone and with Wolf.
It's complicated because the character has so many forms.
Imp Midna, Imp Midna and Wolf Link, Princess Midna, Fused Shadow Midna.
It's difficult to generalize the character. "Midna" is technically the true form. And if Imp Midna was in Smash Bros she would likely have access to all of these.

Zant: B
I gave this to Toon Ganon and Zant is pretty similar with the dual swords concept so yeah...

Midna+Wolf Link: C
Grabbing stuff with a hand is really cool, but I doubt a whole moveset can be made interesting with just using one giant hand.

I think your mixing up who Midna is with who Master Hand is.

Midna is dominantly a magic-user with warp portal and transformation gimmicks.
I strongly suggest you fix your rating to a letter that actually shows how unique she is.




Guys. Listen to me.
You have Zoroark up on the S tier for his illusion gimmick, right?
WELL MIDNA DOES THE SAME EXACT THING!
But she also has access to more types of weapons, similar to Anna, and is a little girl that can transform into a giant beast, similar to Tiki, but also has a whole extra form beyond that, I don't even know who I can compare that to! She also adds on a quadruped animal to her moveset by a special attack, this is also incomparable to the current roster!
There's nobody with a portal gimmick. Farores Wind doesn't warp down platforms, and can't warp objects or other people, just Shelda.
Anything below an A is just incorrect.
That does not correctly measure her uniqueness... Simple as that.

Blue, don't end the day yet. I still don't have my laptop, I will in 45 minutes. I'm not done proving my point yet.


Also, why are people acting like the only thing Zant can do is weird two swords? That was only part of the (fifth?) phase of his boss fight.
It's not wen part of his main attacks, he only uses them for like a minute. Yet does a lot in every other phase, and throughout the whole game.

 

[Starbound]

I think your mixing up who Midna is with who Master Hand is.

I know who Midna is. I've played Twilight Princess.

Midna is dominantly a magic-user with warp portal and transformation gimmicks.

Yes, I'm aware. Like I've said, I've played Twilight Princess.
and the thing is, each of the things she can do are cool. But that's just it. Just cool. I really don't think it's very interesting, hence the C.

And combining them together just creates a sloppy mess that tries to be everything and the kitchen sink but ultimately ends up lacking coherency because it's a moveset that just wants to do everything and be everything. You have like... 16 moves to best showcase that character's abilities.

You have Zoroark up on the S tier for his illusion gimmick, right?
WELL MIDNA DOES THE SAME EXACT THING!
But she also has access to more types of weapons, similar to Anna, and is a little girl that can transform into a giant beast, similar to Tiki, but also has a whole extra form beyond that, I don't even know who I can compare that to! She also adds on a quadruped animal to her moveset by a special attack, this is also incomparable to the current roster!

My reasoning for quoting this is that it reinforces the kitchen sink moveset. Just because Midna does A, B, C, D, X, Y and Z does not mean all of them need to be in the moveset. Look at, for example, Link. There's a boatload of items that Link uses in his games that would be awesome in Smash Bros. (different armor, different boots, ocarina songs, time travel, etc), but not all of them are shown off in his moveset because it takes away from the coherency of the moveset.

I strongly suggest you fix your rating to a letter that actually shows how unique she is.

I think her uniqueness deserves a C. The giant hand is unique but certainly not earth shattering. Portals + Magic is a lot like my Lucina idea (only -sword, +magic), and that got a C as well. And don't even get me started on transformations.

 

[Sobreviviente]

Another possibility for midna and zant :B

 

[Knight Dude]

I guess I could go over Zant. Though I might not be the best at it.

Zant Overall: B+

Zant, while not likely, has some cool tricks up his sleeves. His dual sword playstyle is similar in concept that Toon Ganondorf has. But with Zant, his style is more over the top. His movements are fast and frantic, and he can even use his own variation of the Spin Attack. On top of this he can use a rapid fire projectile like in his boss battle. We don't really see many rapid fire shots. Of course he's another character that can use teleports as well, which isn't too common, but much of his competition could take advantage of this as well. Being able to summon force fields also has a few unique attributes compared to the rest of the cast too.

Really with Zant, it's a matter of using his powers in an interesting way. Perhaps his force fields can be set on a timer, or have to be hit with a Smash attack in order to brake it. Doing stuff like this can make Zant's moveset more standout from the rest of the cast. I think it would be interesting if his teleports targets the closest enemy on the field. Or have it so that Zant can teleport as a replacement for the normal dodge animations.

 

[andimidna]

I know who Midna is. I've played Twilight Princess.


Yes, I'm aware. Like I've said, I've played Twilight Princess.
and the thing is, each of the things she can do are cool. But that's just it. Just cool. I really don't think it's very interesting, hence the C.

And combining them together just creates a sloppy mess that tries to be everything and the kitchen sink but ultimately ends up lacking coherency because it's a moveset that just wants to do everything and be everything. You have like... 16 moves to best showcase that character's abilities.



My reasoning for quoting this is that it reinforces the kitchen sink moveset. Just because Midna does A, B, C, D, X, Y and Z does not mean all of them need to be in the moveset. Look at, for example, Link. There's a boatload of items that Link uses in his games that would be awesome in Smash Bros. (different armor, different boots, ocarina songs, time travel, etc), but not all of them are shown off in his moveset because it takes away from the coherency of the moveset.

That's not how you rate a character's uniqueness, if they have a multitude of abilities that CAN be a part of her potential moveset, it's unique.
She wouldn't be cloning ANYBODY.

Of course Link can't use everything, but he would deserve S+ tier because he has so many different possibilities that COULD be his moveset.

I think her uniqueness deserves a C. The giant hand is unique but certainly not earth shattering. Portals + Magic is a lot like my Lucina idea (only -sword, +magic), and that got a C as well. And don't even get me started on transformations.[/quote]
All you are giving her is one attack for one form.
This would likely only be part of her grabs and an A attack. You aren't factoring anything in for a special attack or final smash.
I've never seen anybody suggest her hair should be part of her specials.
That's a very narrow-minded view on things,
I would even argue that a hair-centric moveset while on Wolf Link still deserves A tier.

She uses her hair for so much more than your giving her credit for:
Side B

This. Damn.
That's her hair, and it's popping Zant like a pimple.
B

She doesn't just hit people with he hair like Dixie Kong, who you are putting her on an equal tier with.
Here's electric field. She can stun enemies within a range, and jumps to attack everybody in the range.
This is unique.
Nothing even close to this is in Smash Bros.
Up B

A recovery that separates to joined characters.
She flings forward, he jumps off, she catches him in her hair-hand.
It's more likely she'd warp, but I'm trying to do a hair moveset, like you suggested.

Down B

Downward Warp into the shadows.

A grab that leads to a side throw, chucking a character far to one side or the other


Final Smash:

Does it have to be her hair?
Okay, the "popping Zant like a pimple" move would be a great Final Smash.
Her new side B should be:
http://youtu.be/2uRaLFADmZc
11:20
Okay, maybe this should actually be her Final Smash. They both have the potential to fit either move.

There's your freakin' S-/A+ tier hair-centric moveset. Like it?

 

[andimidna]

Also, WHY ARE PEOPLE RATING ZANT SO LOW?!
http://youtu.be/hchU6eyVE_M
These are both of Phantom Zant's boss fights.
Plus his Shadow Hand. And Blanket of Twilight.
It's a pro, he doesn't show all of the enemies Zant can summon.
http://youtu.be/SbHe8mCCZpw
These are his 5 phases of his final boss.
It's a pro, so it doesn't get to all of his moves.
But he fights taking from every previous boss fight.
Therefore, he doesn't have to just take from this, he can take from every other boss fight in Twilight Princess.
WATCH THE ABOVE VIDEOS BEFORE RATING HIM, AND IF YOU RATED HIM LOW!!!
The below videos are boss fights in Twilight Princess that Zant didn't represent, but can:
Stallord: http://youtu.be/qJcSGtOUPTE
WATCH THIS ONE TOO, ZANT IS IN IT. THIS COULD BE HIS FINAL SMASH, HE REVIVES STALLORD WITH THE TWILIGHT SWORD.
Argorok: http://youtu.be/QRcSHyA0P2E
King Bulblin: http://youtu.be/pOvPMo5HDkE , http://youtu.be/WLtIEQ94imM , http://youtu.be/O-Pti3lagFM , http://youtu.be/wtquUEBXY0M
Fyrus: http://youtu.be/C6dDgeBmZoA
Armogohma: http://youtu.be/pFtndJccwbQ
Death Sword: http://youtu.be/GRXXrWVlFss
Darkhammer: http://youtu.be/7M9JfWk5ZCQ
Aeralfos: http://youtu.be/x8SDYTZ29EA
Darknut: http://youtu.be/aJMRysEpvrE
Zelda: http://youtu.be/DhIqGv_1z5I
WATCH THE LAST ONE. MIDNA, GANONDORF, AND ZELDA ARE AWESOME.

[sorry for double posting D:]

 

[Pacack]

While I agree that Midna is unique, I feel like Wolf Link actually holds her down some. I mean, if it's a dual character, then the other character has to take up part of the moveset too. Midna herself would easily earn an A- for me alone, but I'd actually rank them together as B.

 

[andimidna]

While I agree that Midna is unique, I feel like Wolf Link actually holds her down some. I mean, if it's a dual character, then the other character has to take up part of the moveset too. Midna herself would easily earn an A- for me alone, but I'd actually rank them together as B.

I disagree.
Midna can do anything she normally does even when sitting on Wolf Link.
Plus, just because she's on Wolf Link, doesn't mean she can't switch to being an alone imp.

I do think it would be worth it to rate solo Midna though...

 

[Pacack]

I disagree.
Midna can do anything she normally does even when sitting on Wolf Link.
Plus, just because she's on Wolf Link, doesn't mean she can't switch to being an alone imp.

I do think it would be worth it to rate solo Midna though...

I respectfully still stand by my score.