andimidna
Smash Master
I don't mean to be disrespectful, I just feel that if Tingle deserves an A, Midna and Wolf Link do too.
I've worked on so much evidence to reason with my S+ tier placement....
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The Uniqueness Tier List: Captain Falcon, Robin, Lucina, Shulk, and Meta-Knight
- Thread starter BluePikmin11
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I've worked on so much evidence to reason with my S+ tier placement....
Pacack
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But people are indeed allowed to have differing opinions from yours and I happen to be one of those people. I stand by my rating.
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andimidna
Smash Master
I'm gonna quote some stuff from the Midna thread now.
HOW would Midna play?
Movesets go here; submit anything you have!
[collapse=Movesets]
There are actually a few potential options for Midna. Her True Form could be used as a transformation or even her base form; however, since she displays more abilities in her Imp Form and it is far more iconic, I will explain about that here.
Even within her Imp Form, Midna could work two ways: she could stand alone or ride atop the back of Wolf Link. My personal preference if fighting alone, and that is the moveset that I have designed. I may add a Wolf Link one later, or you can suggest one if you wish.
[collapse=Groose's Imp Midna Moveset]
Imp Midna has one defining trait: she floats about one body height above the ground. This has much more of an effect on gameplay than the floating of Mewtwo. Small characters such as Pikachu and Kirby can find some of their attacks passing right under Midna as she snickers above them! She's not too hard to hit if the opponent has any idea what's going on, but she does take away several attacks just by standing still!
Floating also makes Midna one of the lightest characters in the game, yet she is very slow and her jumps aren't great. Her attacks, many of which would involve her hair, have deceptive range and power. Midna's power isn't quire on Dedede, DK, or Bowser levels, but her attacks pack about as large as punch as Lucario's; she's the most powerful of lightweights.
As for her specials, they are as follows:
Neutral B: Twilight Stun
A circle of darkness expands around Midna; it slowly grows larger and larger the longer she holds it. All enemies that touch the circle are frozen, and when Midna releases, she quickly attacks all of them for respectable damage (7%). Unfortunately, if Midna's circle expands too large without touching a character, it breaks and deals her the damage instead. Midna can cancel it, but there is exit lag. This move is punishable and easy to avoid, so it must be used carefully; this is edgeguarding's greatest friend, however, and makes Midna dangerous when used correctly.
Side B: Twilight Ball
This is a simple projectile that functions similar to Mega Man's Mega Buster. It can fire rapidly, has short range, and causes only minor damage. This is mainly used for spacing.
Down B: Twilight Merge
Midna temporarily becomes one with the shadows. Anyone who touches her during this time will take damage instead of dealing it. This has exit and entrance lag, so it can be predicted and punished. Her transformation only lasts a second.
Up B: Twilight Teleport
Standard teleportation move that functions similar to Zelda's. Perhaps it could have the added effect of draggin anyone who touches it along for a ride, as happens in Twilight Princess?
Final Smash: Fused Midna
Midna morphs into her most powerful form. Her movement is greatly reduced, and she loses all but an incredibly powerful melee attack and moderately powerful ranged attack. Touching her also deals damage. This transformation lasts for 15 seconds or so.
Since none of her specials make use of her hair, it would be used in her smash attacks and grabs. Her tilts could involving diving down from her floating position to strike the ground and other useful techniques.
[/collapse]
[collapse=Freduardo's Imp+Wolf Companion moveset]
It may not be the Midna move set we want, but it's the one we deserve, note my Midna is riding wolf Link.
B Up: Howling twilight teleport: Wolf Link Howl's one of his teleport tunes from the game as a sound effect while they teleport slightly less far than Zelda or Mewtwo, taking less time than Zelda but more time than Mewtwo.
B Forward: Lunge and Rip: Like Diddy Kong's B Forward, the wolf lunges forward with his fangs, if you hit right it grabs/pins someone on the ground, hitting the button again, or an a button, or any button, rips out the soul, or whatever I tore out of things in twilight princess.
B Down: Shadow Paralysis: Midna sends out that circle that locks enemies in place with a little electricity at their feet. A small stun.
B Neutral: Finger Spikes: Midna's hair fist thing becomes an open hand and shoots finger spikes forward.
A Attacks: If they're aimed low, it's generally wolf link clawing or biting. If they're aimed high, it's generally Midna attacking with her giant ponytail fist aura. If they're aimed forward or not aimed it's a mix.
Final Smash: Hey Listen!: Midna sends out a larger version of the B Down circle, if it hits, Midna starts cackling as Navi and Tatl fly around the screen smacking the opponent up like the Kat and Ana assist trophy, then they fly off screen and come back holding Fii in sword mode, and drop Fii on the opponent, then while Fii is stuck int he opponent they drop king of red lions on Fii and the opponent.
[/collapse]
[collapse=andimidna's "out there" Princess form moveset]
B: Dominion Rod- works like it does in the game visually, but actually gives damage, since it shoots out and comes back, it would be similar to Toon Link's Boomerang.
Down B: Water Bomb, Bombling, Big Bomb- Link doesn't just use one type of bomb in Twilight Princess. He has special floaty Water Bombs to use explosives underwater, and the iconic name-changing walking bomb, to explode something not near you. This would work similarly to Peach's Side Tilt, in the sense that there are 3 moves in one. Water Bombs and Bomblings would be the most common, both having a 45% chance of appearing. However, the Big Bomb would only have a 10% chance, and would be the most powerful.
Water Bomb- when thrown, it slowly floats around, partially aimed towards a nearby opponent if there is one, it is by far the most useless of the 3, it moves so slowly that it is easy to avoid.
Bombling- This one's great. Once taken out, it runs forward and if it hits anything... BOOM. This is by far the most unique bomb.
Big Bomb- This one isn't from Twilight Princess, it represents the regular bomb, but is differentiated by being larger. So when you pull it out, it is 2x larger with 2x the explosion, and does a higher damage than the rest.
Side B: Spinner. Midna jumps on the spinner and spins to the side pressed. It's pretty self-explanatory. It wouldn't do too much damage, but would raise her high enough to not be vulnerable to an attack. It would be a great side recovery and would last a pretty long time. This move is somewhat comparable to Sonic, Yoshi, and Squirtle.
Up B: Ooccoo Warp- Yep! Completely different from Imp Midna's! Ooccoo Jr spins around Midna and you warp to wherever you point to.
Midna has the Twilight Sword.
A: Wooden Statue jab
AA: Wooden Statue swing- horizontally
AAA: Wooden Statue swing- vertically
Wooden Statue- works like a short bat, not much to say.
Down A: Magic Spin- she spins, and twilight magic (bubbles, orbs, and elecricity) blast from beneath her outward
Up A: Upward Fire Blast- Midna blasts fire upward
Side A: Swings Twilight Sword- to the side pointed to, it can float on it's own, and works like Lum, which turns Midna into a puppet character.
The Dominion Rod now gets a new use, if you hit the sword with the Dominion Rod, it loses it's control, and returns to you slowly. Slow enough that you can get it back in control by using the Dominion Rod right after losing control. What makes this different from Rosalina is this, and the fact that the sword cannot die, however, if it gets hit enough, it will simply fall down on the stage (which will take a lot of attacking) a lay there uncontrolled, you will have to go and revive it with your Dominion Rod if this happens. But as her moveset without the sword is just as good, this doesn't leave her as vulnerable.
Now, when the sword comes back to her, her smashes change
A: Sword Jab
AA: Sword swipe- forward--->vertical in a "scooping motion"
AAA: Sword Spin/Great Spin (one of the last sword skills in Twilight Princess)
Down A: Ending Blow (sword skill in Twilight Princess)
Up A: Jump Strike (sword skill in Twilight Princess)
Side A: Never changes, always swings the sword closer or furthew away or towards Midna depending on direction. This move is basically a cooler Luma Shot.
Aerial attacks aren't affected by if Midna has the sword or not(unless specified otherwise), they do 1.5x the damage if she's holding it, but if the sword is somewhere else on the stage, it can hit opponents in different places. That's how they balance.
Air: Magic Ring- it's a ring of magic. It could take the appearance of Imp Midna's electric field, her twilight particle division tactic, her twilit orbs, either one is fine. Maybe even the blue magic near the bottom of the OP.
FAir: Twilight Blast- another magic-based attack, it will also look like one of those types of magic listed, but each will be different.
BAir: Twilightning Kick- Zelda's Lightning Kick with a new aesthetic of one of those magic types. Since Rosalina takes Peach's dash attack, I'd be surprised if Midna took absolutely nothing from Zelda, besides, it would be disguised as a new move.
Without Sword
DAir: Kicks down and goes to the ground fairly quickly, but also blasts magic upward, which is unique to down attacks, it would be like a vertical ROB blast.
UAir: Broken Mirror- Punches upward into the Mirror of Twilight (wich would warp in above her as the move takes place (it would move quickly, despite how it sounds). Falling shards would cause minimal damage, and would serve as more of a distraction.
With Sword
DAir: Sword Thrust- Thrusts sword to the ground similar to Link and Toon Link, but beside her, making it more comparable to Kirby taking Ike's ability, but faster.
UAir: Helm Splitter (sword skill for Twilight Princess)
Grab: Ball and Chain- it only grabs successfully if they're close enough, but if they're farther away, the opponent will just get impaled by the ball, and will not get wrapped in the chain.
Pummel: Zelda's but faster and with a different aesthetic
Forward Throw: Double Clawshot- whips opponents forward
Back Throw: Zelda's but slower and stronger
Up Throw: Fishing Rod- sends opponents upward
Down Throw: No matter where it is, the Twilight Sword zooms back to Midna and slams down on the grabbed opponent, if Midna uses her dash attack immediately after this move, she grabs her sword rather than doing the attack. After this throw, if she was holding her sword before, they are now separate, to set up for more grabs, and being protected during another grab.
Dash Attack: same as Zelda, but with fire aesthetics (inb4 She's Zelda's Roy)
Tilts! Only one involves her sword, her sword spins up and down during all attacks when separate, and floats on her leg like a sheath is there (but one isn't) when an attack not involving it is done and it's not sent out, which will slow down her attacks if she's transitioning from a magic or an item move, to a sword move.
Side Tilt: Slingshot
Forward Tilt: Ordon Sword- she throws the Ordon Sword which appears from the Twilight, and there is an infinite amount. A powerful projectile tilt, delicious.
Up tilt: Sol- the magic Sol, the Suns of the Twilight Realm, comes out of it's ruler's own hands. Lovely.
With Sword
Down Tilt: Backward Slice (sword skill from Twilight Princess)
Ledge Attack: Same as Zelda without the Twilight Sword, same as Link with the sword
Floor Attack: Same as Zelda
These two attacks are extremely insignificant. I didn't bother making them unique.
Taunts!
Midna has 2 affective taunts! The only character in Brawl to have one is Luigi!
Neutral Taunt: Lantern Fire- Midna takes the animation Link uses to light something with his lantern in Twilight Princess. If hit by this, a small fire would "explode" for a second, like it's lighting the opponent, but of course they don't actually light on fire, and receive small damage and no knockback
Side Taunt: Tear of Light- It's not actually one of the Tears of Light, but rather Midna's tear that shatters the Mirror of Twilight. She sends the tear out, exactly like she does in-game, and it travels across the stage slowly. Because it is so slow, it is unlikely to hit anybody, so if it does, it does high damage, but once again, no knockback at all, they just get stunned for half of a second.
Down Taunt- Din's Fire- holds a magic ball of fire in her hands and laughs playfully (I noticed Zelda's neutral and down taunts have returned but her side taunt has not, which is supposed to represent Din's Fire, and the fact that she's seen with a new taunt where she grabs outward with an angered expression, well, it looks like her new side taunt, so Midna takes this one. Plus, as Twili are the descendents of the Gerudo, I'd imagine Twili might worship Din, and not so much the other goddesses.
On-Screen Appearance: Walks down the clear stairs (whic appear inbetween the Twilight Mirror and the Twilight Realm Portal in Twilight Princess.
FINAL SMASH!
-Midna takes her sword and revives Stallord (3 seconds)
-Sword stays in Stallord's skull (0 seconds)
-Midna encases herself in an ice prism identical to Blizzeta's, it is not breakable by a playable character (1/2 second)
-Stallord (controlled by player) wrecks **** (for about 15 seconds)
-Zant appears, detracts the Twilight Sword from Stallord, and blasts Midna with his large Dark Twilit Orb Sphere (2 seconds)
-Stallord crumbles, Midna's prism shatters, and Midna is turned into an imp (1 second)
-Zant jumps off with the weird animation from his Ook phase in Twilight Princess, now you play as Imp Midna. (1 second)
[/collapse]
[/collapse]
WHAT can Midna do?
If you've played Twilight Princess, you probably already know everything Midna has up her sleeve; if you have forgotten or haven't played the game, check out this section for a shortlist of Midna's canonical moves.
This section isn't a Smash Bros. moveset; it's an explanation of Midna's powers in Twilight Princess.
[collapse= Midna's Abilities]If you've played Twilight Princess, you probably already know everything Midna has up her sleeve; if you have forgotten or haven't played the game, check out this section for a shortlist of Midna's canonical moves.
This section isn't a Smash Bros. moveset; it's an explanation of Midna's powers in Twilight Princess.
Midna is relatively skilled in dark magic. She can create a ball of twilight energy that functions similar to shadow ball or an aura sphere; it can be seen in the image below. This move is powerful enough to break through steel.
Midna can use far more than simple projectiles, however. She can send out area-of-effect dark magic that briefly stuns or slows all enemies within a certain range. Such a skill is essential to Wolf Link's battle prowess; certain types of enemies can only be hurt after Midna stuns them. An example of the this attack can be seen in the image below.
The above image also shows another of Midna's abilities: her shapeshifting hair. You thought Dixie Kong's hair was unique? Midna can make hers turn into a hand and use it for a variety of grabs.
Grabs aren't the only use for her hair. She can also use her own hair as a more powerful, direct weapon: she slays one major boss by impaling him with her hair.
Midna also has access to three other attributes: hovering, vanishing, and teleportation. Midna constantly hovers throughout the course of the game. She has also shown the ability to turn into shadow and twilight; such a maneuver can easily be used as a dodge or defensive move.
Finally, Midna can teleport. You say teleportation isn't that unique in Smash Bros? Midna's brand of teleportation is highly unique. She can teleport not just herself, but other people and objects; she constantly moves Link around the world and even transports the Bridge of Eldin at one point. Teleporting other people would make for an interesting attack... but we'll get to that soon enough.
For now, I'd like to discuss one more attribute: Fused Midna. When Midna collects all three of the Fused Shadows, she can use them to transform into a monster that puts even Giga Bowser to shame. In this form, she even fights Ganon himself.
[/collapse]
Midna can use far more than simple projectiles, however. She can send out area-of-effect dark magic that briefly stuns or slows all enemies within a certain range. Such a skill is essential to Wolf Link's battle prowess; certain types of enemies can only be hurt after Midna stuns them. An example of the this attack can be seen in the image below.
The above image also shows another of Midna's abilities: her shapeshifting hair. You thought Dixie Kong's hair was unique? Midna can make hers turn into a hand and use it for a variety of grabs.
Grabs aren't the only use for her hair. She can also use her own hair as a more powerful, direct weapon: she slays one major boss by impaling him with her hair.
Midna also has access to three other attributes: hovering, vanishing, and teleportation. Midna constantly hovers throughout the course of the game. She has also shown the ability to turn into shadow and twilight; such a maneuver can easily be used as a dodge or defensive move.
Finally, Midna can teleport. You say teleportation isn't that unique in Smash Bros? Midna's brand of teleportation is highly unique. She can teleport not just herself, but other people and objects; she constantly moves Link around the world and even transports the Bridge of Eldin at one point. Teleporting other people would make for an interesting attack... but we'll get to that soon enough.
For now, I'd like to discuss one more attribute: Fused Midna. When Midna collects all three of the Fused Shadows, she can use them to transform into a monster that puts even Giga Bowser to shame. In this form, she even fights Ganon himself.
HOW would Midna play?
Movesets go here; submit anything you have!
[collapse=Movesets]
There are actually a few potential options for Midna. Her True Form could be used as a transformation or even her base form; however, since she displays more abilities in her Imp Form and it is far more iconic, I will explain about that here.
Even within her Imp Form, Midna could work two ways: she could stand alone or ride atop the back of Wolf Link. My personal preference if fighting alone, and that is the moveset that I have designed. I may add a Wolf Link one later, or you can suggest one if you wish.
[collapse=Groose's Imp Midna Moveset]
Imp Midna has one defining trait: she floats about one body height above the ground. This has much more of an effect on gameplay than the floating of Mewtwo. Small characters such as Pikachu and Kirby can find some of their attacks passing right under Midna as she snickers above them! She's not too hard to hit if the opponent has any idea what's going on, but she does take away several attacks just by standing still!
Floating also makes Midna one of the lightest characters in the game, yet she is very slow and her jumps aren't great. Her attacks, many of which would involve her hair, have deceptive range and power. Midna's power isn't quire on Dedede, DK, or Bowser levels, but her attacks pack about as large as punch as Lucario's; she's the most powerful of lightweights.
As for her specials, they are as follows:
Neutral B: Twilight Stun
A circle of darkness expands around Midna; it slowly grows larger and larger the longer she holds it. All enemies that touch the circle are frozen, and when Midna releases, she quickly attacks all of them for respectable damage (7%). Unfortunately, if Midna's circle expands too large without touching a character, it breaks and deals her the damage instead. Midna can cancel it, but there is exit lag. This move is punishable and easy to avoid, so it must be used carefully; this is edgeguarding's greatest friend, however, and makes Midna dangerous when used correctly.
Side B: Twilight Ball
This is a simple projectile that functions similar to Mega Man's Mega Buster. It can fire rapidly, has short range, and causes only minor damage. This is mainly used for spacing.
Down B: Twilight Merge
Midna temporarily becomes one with the shadows. Anyone who touches her during this time will take damage instead of dealing it. This has exit and entrance lag, so it can be predicted and punished. Her transformation only lasts a second.
Up B: Twilight Teleport
Standard teleportation move that functions similar to Zelda's. Perhaps it could have the added effect of draggin anyone who touches it along for a ride, as happens in Twilight Princess?
Final Smash: Fused Midna
Midna morphs into her most powerful form. Her movement is greatly reduced, and she loses all but an incredibly powerful melee attack and moderately powerful ranged attack. Touching her also deals damage. This transformation lasts for 15 seconds or so.
Since none of her specials make use of her hair, it would be used in her smash attacks and grabs. Her tilts could involving diving down from her floating position to strike the ground and other useful techniques.
[/collapse]
[collapse=Freduardo's Imp+Wolf Companion moveset]
It may not be the Midna move set we want, but it's the one we deserve, note my Midna is riding wolf Link.
B Up: Howling twilight teleport: Wolf Link Howl's one of his teleport tunes from the game as a sound effect while they teleport slightly less far than Zelda or Mewtwo, taking less time than Zelda but more time than Mewtwo.
B Forward: Lunge and Rip: Like Diddy Kong's B Forward, the wolf lunges forward with his fangs, if you hit right it grabs/pins someone on the ground, hitting the button again, or an a button, or any button, rips out the soul, or whatever I tore out of things in twilight princess.
B Down: Shadow Paralysis: Midna sends out that circle that locks enemies in place with a little electricity at their feet. A small stun.
B Neutral: Finger Spikes: Midna's hair fist thing becomes an open hand and shoots finger spikes forward.
A Attacks: If they're aimed low, it's generally wolf link clawing or biting. If they're aimed high, it's generally Midna attacking with her giant ponytail fist aura. If they're aimed forward or not aimed it's a mix.
Final Smash: Hey Listen!: Midna sends out a larger version of the B Down circle, if it hits, Midna starts cackling as Navi and Tatl fly around the screen smacking the opponent up like the Kat and Ana assist trophy, then they fly off screen and come back holding Fii in sword mode, and drop Fii on the opponent, then while Fii is stuck int he opponent they drop king of red lions on Fii and the opponent.
[/collapse]
[collapse=andimidna's "out there" Princess form moveset]
B: Dominion Rod- works like it does in the game visually, but actually gives damage, since it shoots out and comes back, it would be similar to Toon Link's Boomerang.
Down B: Water Bomb, Bombling, Big Bomb- Link doesn't just use one type of bomb in Twilight Princess. He has special floaty Water Bombs to use explosives underwater, and the iconic name-changing walking bomb, to explode something not near you. This would work similarly to Peach's Side Tilt, in the sense that there are 3 moves in one. Water Bombs and Bomblings would be the most common, both having a 45% chance of appearing. However, the Big Bomb would only have a 10% chance, and would be the most powerful.
Water Bomb- when thrown, it slowly floats around, partially aimed towards a nearby opponent if there is one, it is by far the most useless of the 3, it moves so slowly that it is easy to avoid.
Bombling- This one's great. Once taken out, it runs forward and if it hits anything... BOOM. This is by far the most unique bomb.
Big Bomb- This one isn't from Twilight Princess, it represents the regular bomb, but is differentiated by being larger. So when you pull it out, it is 2x larger with 2x the explosion, and does a higher damage than the rest.
Side B: Spinner. Midna jumps on the spinner and spins to the side pressed. It's pretty self-explanatory. It wouldn't do too much damage, but would raise her high enough to not be vulnerable to an attack. It would be a great side recovery and would last a pretty long time. This move is somewhat comparable to Sonic, Yoshi, and Squirtle.
Up B: Ooccoo Warp- Yep! Completely different from Imp Midna's! Ooccoo Jr spins around Midna and you warp to wherever you point to.
Midna has the Twilight Sword.
A: Wooden Statue jab
AA: Wooden Statue swing- horizontally
AAA: Wooden Statue swing- vertically
Wooden Statue- works like a short bat, not much to say.
Down A: Magic Spin- she spins, and twilight magic (bubbles, orbs, and elecricity) blast from beneath her outward
Up A: Upward Fire Blast- Midna blasts fire upward
Side A: Swings Twilight Sword- to the side pointed to, it can float on it's own, and works like Lum, which turns Midna into a puppet character.
The Dominion Rod now gets a new use, if you hit the sword with the Dominion Rod, it loses it's control, and returns to you slowly. Slow enough that you can get it back in control by using the Dominion Rod right after losing control. What makes this different from Rosalina is this, and the fact that the sword cannot die, however, if it gets hit enough, it will simply fall down on the stage (which will take a lot of attacking) a lay there uncontrolled, you will have to go and revive it with your Dominion Rod if this happens. But as her moveset without the sword is just as good, this doesn't leave her as vulnerable.
Now, when the sword comes back to her, her smashes change
A: Sword Jab
AA: Sword swipe- forward--->vertical in a "scooping motion"
AAA: Sword Spin/Great Spin (one of the last sword skills in Twilight Princess)
Down A: Ending Blow (sword skill in Twilight Princess)
Up A: Jump Strike (sword skill in Twilight Princess)
Side A: Never changes, always swings the sword closer or furthew away or towards Midna depending on direction. This move is basically a cooler Luma Shot.
Aerial attacks aren't affected by if Midna has the sword or not(unless specified otherwise), they do 1.5x the damage if she's holding it, but if the sword is somewhere else on the stage, it can hit opponents in different places. That's how they balance.
Air: Magic Ring- it's a ring of magic. It could take the appearance of Imp Midna's electric field, her twilight particle division tactic, her twilit orbs, either one is fine. Maybe even the blue magic near the bottom of the OP.
FAir: Twilight Blast- another magic-based attack, it will also look like one of those types of magic listed, but each will be different.
BAir: Twilightning Kick- Zelda's Lightning Kick with a new aesthetic of one of those magic types. Since Rosalina takes Peach's dash attack, I'd be surprised if Midna took absolutely nothing from Zelda, besides, it would be disguised as a new move.
Without Sword
DAir: Kicks down and goes to the ground fairly quickly, but also blasts magic upward, which is unique to down attacks, it would be like a vertical ROB blast.
UAir: Broken Mirror- Punches upward into the Mirror of Twilight (wich would warp in above her as the move takes place (it would move quickly, despite how it sounds). Falling shards would cause minimal damage, and would serve as more of a distraction.
With Sword
DAir: Sword Thrust- Thrusts sword to the ground similar to Link and Toon Link, but beside her, making it more comparable to Kirby taking Ike's ability, but faster.
UAir: Helm Splitter (sword skill for Twilight Princess)
Grab: Ball and Chain- it only grabs successfully if they're close enough, but if they're farther away, the opponent will just get impaled by the ball, and will not get wrapped in the chain.
Pummel: Zelda's but faster and with a different aesthetic
Forward Throw: Double Clawshot- whips opponents forward
Back Throw: Zelda's but slower and stronger
Up Throw: Fishing Rod- sends opponents upward
Down Throw: No matter where it is, the Twilight Sword zooms back to Midna and slams down on the grabbed opponent, if Midna uses her dash attack immediately after this move, she grabs her sword rather than doing the attack. After this throw, if she was holding her sword before, they are now separate, to set up for more grabs, and being protected during another grab.
Dash Attack: same as Zelda, but with fire aesthetics (inb4 She's Zelda's Roy)
Tilts! Only one involves her sword, her sword spins up and down during all attacks when separate, and floats on her leg like a sheath is there (but one isn't) when an attack not involving it is done and it's not sent out, which will slow down her attacks if she's transitioning from a magic or an item move, to a sword move.
Side Tilt: Slingshot
Forward Tilt: Ordon Sword- she throws the Ordon Sword which appears from the Twilight, and there is an infinite amount. A powerful projectile tilt, delicious.
Up tilt: Sol- the magic Sol, the Suns of the Twilight Realm, comes out of it's ruler's own hands. Lovely.
With Sword
Down Tilt: Backward Slice (sword skill from Twilight Princess)
Ledge Attack: Same as Zelda without the Twilight Sword, same as Link with the sword
Floor Attack: Same as Zelda
These two attacks are extremely insignificant. I didn't bother making them unique.
Taunts!
Midna has 2 affective taunts! The only character in Brawl to have one is Luigi!
Neutral Taunt: Lantern Fire- Midna takes the animation Link uses to light something with his lantern in Twilight Princess. If hit by this, a small fire would "explode" for a second, like it's lighting the opponent, but of course they don't actually light on fire, and receive small damage and no knockback
Side Taunt: Tear of Light- It's not actually one of the Tears of Light, but rather Midna's tear that shatters the Mirror of Twilight. She sends the tear out, exactly like she does in-game, and it travels across the stage slowly. Because it is so slow, it is unlikely to hit anybody, so if it does, it does high damage, but once again, no knockback at all, they just get stunned for half of a second.
Down Taunt- Din's Fire- holds a magic ball of fire in her hands and laughs playfully (I noticed Zelda's neutral and down taunts have returned but her side taunt has not, which is supposed to represent Din's Fire, and the fact that she's seen with a new taunt where she grabs outward with an angered expression, well, it looks like her new side taunt, so Midna takes this one. Plus, as Twili are the descendents of the Gerudo, I'd imagine Twili might worship Din, and not so much the other goddesses.
On-Screen Appearance: Walks down the clear stairs (whic appear inbetween the Twilight Mirror and the Twilight Realm Portal in Twilight Princess.
FINAL SMASH!
-Midna takes her sword and revives Stallord (3 seconds)
-Sword stays in Stallord's skull (0 seconds)
-Midna encases herself in an ice prism identical to Blizzeta's, it is not breakable by a playable character (1/2 second)
-Stallord (controlled by player) wrecks **** (for about 15 seconds)
-Zant appears, detracts the Twilight Sword from Stallord, and blasts Midna with his large Dark Twilit Orb Sphere (2 seconds)
-Stallord crumbles, Midna's prism shatters, and Midna is turned into an imp (1 second)
-Zant jumps off with the weird animation from his Ook phase in Twilight Princess, now you play as Imp Midna. (1 second)
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Sobreviviente
Smash Lord
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About rates, think in this:
From this fight we can say toon ganondorf has the abbility to make illusions, teleport and a wall of fire gimmick.
Then he can summon this guy:
this guy:
Or this guy:
Which stands into many puppet controll, shadow and wind gimmicks, plus an entire army of pirates, but you dont think toon ganondorf will use any of those doesnt it? well this is the uniqueness tier list thread, we dont know how a character will be implemented (look at rosalina and villager) so we can only make theories, and if people have no problem guessing tingle using ruppees as projectiles or packman using ghosts then they shouldnt have a problem with this.
I personally think rating uniqueness is useless, at the end people only want to categorize a character using one point of view, but tiers should be about facts and stadistics, not opinions, and the fact is, every character can get an S+ if you dig enough on them, making the rates a boring and unnecessary thing.
@
andimidna
, hope not to sound nosy, your post was cool enough to proof midna's uniqueness, but you are just repeating yourself, if people still thinks she is lower in potential than fan favorites like k rool or ridley then let them be, people are indeed allowed to have different opinions, forums are about exactly that anyways 
just try to have fun.
From this fight we can say toon ganondorf has the abbility to make illusions, teleport and a wall of fire gimmick.
Then he can summon this guy:
this guy:
Or this guy:
Which stands into many puppet controll, shadow and wind gimmicks, plus an entire army of pirates, but you dont think toon ganondorf will use any of those doesnt it? well this is the uniqueness tier list thread, we dont know how a character will be implemented (look at rosalina and villager) so we can only make theories, and if people have no problem guessing tingle using ruppees as projectiles or packman using ghosts then they shouldnt have a problem with this.
I personally think rating uniqueness is useless, at the end people only want to categorize a character using one point of view, but tiers should be about facts and stadistics, not opinions, and the fact is, every character can get an S+ if you dig enough on them, making the rates a boring and unnecessary thing.
@
andimidna
, hope not to sound nosy, your post was cool enough to proof midna's uniqueness, but you are just repeating yourself, if people still thinks she is lower in potential than fan favorites like k rool or ridley then let them be, people are indeed allowed to have different opinions, forums are about exactly that anyways just try to have fun.
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D
Deleted member
Guest
You see, the problem I have looking at what you've presented here, is that Ganondorf never directly does any of this stuff. Compare that to Midna, who directly does everything we've talked about. You can take a couple indirect things for a character, but you can't base an entire moveset around it - which leads most of us to believe Toon 'Dorf would end up a double sword character, rather than a summoner or a (big) magic user.About rates, think in this:
From this fight we can say toon ganondorf has the abbility to make illusions, teleport and a wall of fire gimmick.
Then he can summon this guy:
this guy:
Or this guy:
Which stands into many puppet controll, shadow and wind gimmicks, plus an entire army of pirates, but you dont think toon ganondorf will use any of those doesnt it? well this is the uniqueness tier list thread, we dont know how a character will be implemented (look at rosalina and villager) so we can only make theories, and if people have no problem guessing tingle using ruppees as projectiles or packman using ghosts then they shouldnt have a problem with this.
I personally think rating uniqueness is useless, at the end people only want to categorize a character using one point of view, but tiers should be about facts and stadistics, not opinions, and the fact is, every character can get an S+ if you dig enough on them, making the rates a boring and unnecessary thing.
@
Ocarina of Time and Twilight Princess Ganondorf do far more than Toon. Twilight Princess Ganondorf has four phases, one where he possesses Zelda, another as Ganon, one on horseback and finally a one-on-one sword fight. He was full of potential and 'uniqueness,' although Sakurai made a hash of the character in Brawl. He did at least add a few moves from that last fight.
Toon Ganondorf fights you himself once, in the entirety of Wind Waker - a fight much like Twilight Princess' final boss, where he only uses swords. Ocarina of Time Ganondorf is responsible for Phantom Ganondorf and literally everything bad that happens in that game, but I'd still not consider anything not directly used by him, unless there was a very good reason.
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Sobreviviente
Smash Lord
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Yes, i agree with all this, but thats my point, we dont know, we can only guess how a character would be, and following ganon's record in smash, toon ganondorf could very well use his bare hands and focus on punchs overall.
Rossy never used a luma like that in games for example, we simply dont know what could happen; people seemed to overlook a character and pass them away when this thread should be the exact opposite, dig into them and try to make them an S+, but really, i understand your point of view.
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D
Deleted member
Guest
I can see your point on Rosalina, but one thing to take into account is that Lumas are a good size for a summon character and Rosalina never directly fought before, so there was nothing else for her to do. Ganondorf does fight, but just uses his swords, plus the summons he could have are fairly big so probably not possible.
I totally sympathize that Toon Ganondorf could have a fun set based on magic used "by him" in the game and so on. But you have to draw a line somewhere between "what a character does" and "what a character can do," otherwise you can blanket every character as having great potential.
You can argue any rep is an S+ with that logic, but that doesn't make this thread pointless, I think that is exactly why this thread exists. Your post, for example, opened my mind a bit to what other magic Ganondorf can perform from Wind Waker that I didn't think of when I made my post. I would just disagree that most of it can inspire moves when he never directly casts it in his game.
Sobreviviente
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Didnt said thread is pointless, i do think tiers are interesting.
Look at my toon ganondorf grades on page 31, i draw the line you are talking about, and i also think tingle using ruppes is crossing that line, but is ok, really, im agree with you on this, im just saying that rates will always be about opinions more than anything, i can easely give to k rool an F because he could be just a big bowser with a crown, nothing actually spectacular (is just an example).
About gany summoning big foes, well , that could very well be his unique gimmick, summon big and powerfull creatures because he is slower than a sandbag
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D
Deleted member
Guest
Sorry, I didn't mean to put words in your mouth, it's just when you said "rating uniqueness is useless" I thought you may have been complaining about the thread.Didnt said thread is pointless, i do think tiers are interesting.
Look at my toon ganondorf post, i draw the line you are talking about, and i also think tingle using ruppes is crossing that line, but is ok, really, im agree with you on this, im just saying that rates will always be about opinions more than anything, i can easely give to k rool an F because he could be just a big bowser with a crown, nothing actually spectacular (is just an example).
About gany summoning big foes, well , that could very well be his unique gimmick, summon big and powerfull creatures because he is slower than a sandbag
That point about Tingle's rupees was good. I think a similar point has to be made for Toon 'Dorf - doesn't it go against his character to, almost cowardly, summon these huge monsters to his defense? He may run from you for most of Wind Waker, but when he fights you, he really does go all out and doesn't rely on anything but his own strength. Same for the other Ganondorf fights in the series, he never summons anything, seemingly out of some form of honor. I don't think it's in-character for him to summon, let alone when he's never seen to do it.
Sobreviviente
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Well he did exactly that in wind waker with his puppet ganon technique
i will hate it indeed, but the possibility is there.
D
Deleted member
Guest
It's possible, but he never fights alongside Puppet Ganon or in fact any of his minions. I just think it'd be dumb. Ghirahim or Zant do it or I can see doing it because they're fanatics or insane, while Ganondorf is far too arrogant.Well he did exactly that in wind waker with his puppet ganon technique
BluePikmin11
Akko is my dear daughter!
Alrighty were finally moving on to the next week, this week will be veteran franchises week, where we'll be rating characters from already represented games.
This will range from Kirby to Starfox to F-Zero you name it.
Today we will be rating Kirby's Bandanna Dee and Dark Matter. Can Dee prove that his spear is enough to poke into the final roster?
Remember analyses are recommended, but grades are fine too.
Tagging @
Chandeelure
for his input.
This will range from Kirby to Starfox to F-Zero you name it.
Today we will be rating Kirby's Bandanna Dee and Dark Matter. Can Dee prove that his spear is enough to poke into the final roster?
Remember analyses are recommended, but grades are fine too.
Tagging @
Chandeelure
for his input.
Pacack
Super Pac-Fan
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I know this is an uncommon viewpoint around here, but...
Waddle Dee: C
While Waddle Dee uses a weapon that is not currently used in the smash bros series, I fear that the concept of a spear is too similar to Marth's sword in that it would do more damage at the tip than anywhere else. Furthermore, I'm not sure if a character with limbs such as the Waddle Dee's would be the best character to use such a playstyle, since he doesn't have the superior reach that Marth does that makes the tip gimmick such a threat. While he does get points for most likely having a unique moveset, I don't see how it would be different enough to warrant a grade higher than that which I've given him.
Abstaining on Dark Matter since I don't know much about him.
Waddle Dee: C
While Waddle Dee uses a weapon that is not currently used in the smash bros series, I fear that the concept of a spear is too similar to Marth's sword in that it would do more damage at the tip than anywhere else. Furthermore, I'm not sure if a character with limbs such as the Waddle Dee's would be the best character to use such a playstyle, since he doesn't have the superior reach that Marth does that makes the tip gimmick such a threat. While he does get points for most likely having a unique moveset, I don't see how it would be different enough to warrant a grade higher than that which I've given him.
Abstaining on Dark Matter since I don't know much about him.
andimidna
Smash Master
I don't know enough about Dark Matter to rate him.
Bandana Dee:
1. How many diverse options does this character have?
A spear. This can be used for stabbing, and a recovery.
2. Is their moves or abilities diverse from the rest of the Smash cast?
While a spear user is not yet in Smash, they are quite similar to a sword, yet are more "stabby"
If Palutena's sceptor, Krystal's staff, or Chrom/Lucina/Anna's lance got in Smash Bros... there wouldn't be many options left for Bandana Dee.
3. Has the concept of the character been done before?
No. A small little enemy with a spear is new.
3a. If it has been done before, is the character's way of doing it unique on it's own.
If it becomes done by Palutena, Krystal, Chrom, Lucina, or Anna... I'm going to say, only as a recovery, other than that, no.
4. Does the character's abilities and moves provide enough to be entertaining?
Yes, he's funny. But there isn't a large amount to work with.
5. How visually different is the character in terms of body shape and looks?
Pretty much an orange Kirby wearing a Bandana.
6. Does it fit the character well enough?
I guess so.
Overall ranking?
I think Bandana Dee deserves one of the most middle-ground ranks there is, C-
Seems to fit perfectly right in the middle for uniqueness.
Bandana Dee:
1. How many diverse options does this character have?
A spear. This can be used for stabbing, and a recovery.
2. Is their moves or abilities diverse from the rest of the Smash cast?
While a spear user is not yet in Smash, they are quite similar to a sword, yet are more "stabby"
If Palutena's sceptor, Krystal's staff, or Chrom/Lucina/Anna's lance got in Smash Bros... there wouldn't be many options left for Bandana Dee.
3. Has the concept of the character been done before?
No. A small little enemy with a spear is new.
3a. If it has been done before, is the character's way of doing it unique on it's own.
If it becomes done by Palutena, Krystal, Chrom, Lucina, or Anna... I'm going to say, only as a recovery, other than that, no.
4. Does the character's abilities and moves provide enough to be entertaining?
Yes, he's funny. But there isn't a large amount to work with.
5. How visually different is the character in terms of body shape and looks?
Pretty much an orange Kirby wearing a Bandana.
6. Does it fit the character well enough?
I guess so.
Overall ranking?
I think Bandana Dee deserves one of the most middle-ground ranks there is, C-
Seems to fit perfectly right in the middle for uniqueness.
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Chandeelure
Bandana Brigade Captain
Hi! What I have to do? XDAlrighty were finally moving on to the next week, this week will be veteran franchises week, where we'll be rating characters from already represented games.
This will range from Kirby to Starfox to F-Zero you name it.
Today we will be rating Kirby's Bandanna Dee and Dark Matter. Can Dee prove that his spear is enough to poke into the final roster?
Remember analyses are recommended, but grades are fine too.
Tagging @
Ummm... well, Bandana Dee would be the first spear user in Smash Bros, that's something XD
He could also do "Waddle Dee abilities" like using a parasol, attacking with bounce attacks, mine carts, explosive coconuts, megaton punch, etc.
http://kirby.wikia.com/wiki/Waddle_Dee
And well, here is a moveset:
-Jumps: Two.
-Jump Height: Same as Kirby.
-Falling Speed: Same as Mario.
-Weight: Same as Meta Knight.
-Walking Speed: Same as Kirby.
-Dash Speed: Same as Pikachu.
-Ground Attacks.
-Neutral: He jabs with his spear, does another jab, and finishes of with a quick flurry of jabs. First 4%, second 3%, all after 1-2%.
-Forward Tilt: A short poke with his spear. 7%
-Down Tilt: He sweeps across the floor with his spear. This can trip. 6%
-Up Tilt: A long overhead jab with his spear. 8%
-Dash Attack: His classic slow roll. 7%
-Aerial Attacks.
-Neutral: He spins in a circle horizontally with his spear outstretched. Body 2%, handle 4%, and tip 7%
-Forward: He sweeps his spear forward. 14%
-Down: He puts his spear under him, stalling, and falls quickly. 12%
-Up: A short jab with his spear. 12%
-Back: He kicks back. 11%
-Smash Attacks.
-Forward: A powerful thrust of his spear. This can be tilted. Uncharged 15%. Charged 19%.
-Down: He punches the ground, like a megaton punch. Uncharged 12%. Charged 16%.
-Up: He attacks with one single and powerful hit of his parasol. Uncharged 14%. Charged 18%.
-Grabs.
-Pummel: A quick headbutt. 2%
-Forward: He grabs the opponent with both hands and throws him forwards a short distance. 6%
-Down: He puts them down and body slams them. 6%
-Back: He quickly turns around and flings the opponent behind him. 7%
-Up: He sets the opponent on his parasol, spins it, and flings them off. 8%
-Other Attacks.
-Fallen: He kicks one leg out, gets up, and kicks the other out. First hit 4%. Last hit 4%.
-Ledge Attack: He gets up and delivers a small poke with the end of his spear. 7%
-Special Attacks.
-Neutral: Spear Throw.
Waddle Dee throws a spear. If you charge this attack long enough he will throw three at once. 8%.
-Side: Parasol Spin.
Based on Parasol Waddle Dees, he pulls out a parasol and spins it in the direction of the control stick. This can reflect projectiles. In the air he will start slowly floating down. 7%
-Down: Waddle Bounce.
He does the classic short hop of the Waddle Dees doing damage to anyone hit, but this move can be canceled into any other move when it hits. 3%
-Up: Spearcopter.
Waddle Dee spins his spear quickly overhead like a helicopter damaging anyone that touches it. This makes him go straight up a small ways and then hover for a short time afterwards, going the direction pointed. This move traps. First hits 1%. Last hit 5%.
-Final Smash: Waddle Dee Tank.
The Waddle Dee Tank appears in the middle of the stage and shoot slow but very powerful missiles at Bandana Dee's opponents. Bandana Dee can attack normally during his Final Smash. The Waddle Dee Tank acts like a giant platform/wall.
-Taunts.
-Up: He fixes his bandana.
-Side: He jumps beats the end of his spear on the ground.
-Down: He covers his eyes for a moment then uncovers them while shaking as if he is scared.
Grade: A
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BluePikmin11
Akko is my dear daughter!
All you do simply have to give a reasonable grade for Dee.
What do you give him?
Also @Brawler610 might be able to help us.
What do you give him?
Also @Brawler610 might be able to help us.
D
Deleted member
Guest
Alright. I'll make this short since I have to go somewhere soon, so no long post like I did for Shulk and Bomberman.
I'm going to rate Bandana Dee only.
Bandana Dee: B
Bandana Dee has a claimed uniqueness with his spear. The way this is incorporated is that not only can he throw the spear and use a new one, but the tip of the spear will cause maximum damage and knockback.
He separates himself with other characters with this weapon and he separates himself from the Kirby characters quite nicely. He can't multi-jump, but he could have an amazing recovery with Spear Copter as his Up Special. Making a moveset really isn't that hard since there is a lot of material to work with in Kirby's Return to Dream Land and Bandana Dee could use moves from other games that he is in (like the box in Kirby 64 or the Megaton Punch from Kirby Super Star).
I think a solid B is best for Bandana Dee.
I might edit this later and make it like my posts for Shulk and Bomberman, but I might not... due to laziness.
I'm going to rate Bandana Dee only.
Bandana Dee: B
Bandana Dee has a claimed uniqueness with his spear. The way this is incorporated is that not only can he throw the spear and use a new one, but the tip of the spear will cause maximum damage and knockback.
He separates himself with other characters with this weapon and he separates himself from the Kirby characters quite nicely. He can't multi-jump, but he could have an amazing recovery with Spear Copter as his Up Special. Making a moveset really isn't that hard since there is a lot of material to work with in Kirby's Return to Dream Land and Bandana Dee could use moves from other games that he is in (like the box in Kirby 64 or the Megaton Punch from Kirby Super Star).
I think a solid B is best for Bandana Dee.
I might edit this later and make it like my posts for Shulk and Bomberman, but I might not... due to laziness.
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StaffofSmashing
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Waddle Dee: B
Waddle Dee has many things going for him. He can use his spear for many attacks, but he has used parasols, hammers, and various physical attacks. There is not one thing wrong with this guy and yet I give him a B because he has many things, but only so many of them can go into his moveset.
Dark Matter: A-
Dark Matter is not just your generic sword wielder. He uses a style unique to smash using many quick and powerful slashes. This is not all he has as he can fire sword beams and teleport all over the place. He has many combo attacks he owns that can give him more uniqueness and overall awesomeness. I can't think of many wrong, but he is a sword user, and there is only so much you can do.
Waddle Dee has many things going for him. He can use his spear for many attacks, but he has used parasols, hammers, and various physical attacks. There is not one thing wrong with this guy and yet I give him a B because he has many things, but only so many of them can go into his moveset.
Dark Matter: A-
Dark Matter is not just your generic sword wielder. He uses a style unique to smash using many quick and powerful slashes. This is not all he has as he can fire sword beams and teleport all over the place. He has many combo attacks he owns that can give him more uniqueness and overall awesomeness. I can't think of many wrong, but he is a sword user, and there is only so much you can do.
Sobreviviente
Smash Lord
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Bandada Dee.
People always seemed to give him Dee abbilities when bandana really have nothing to do with them, he is all about the spear. He doesnt represent the whole dee race, he is not toad, he represents a loyal friend to DDD, like impa.
UP B. exactly.
Neutral B.
Down B.
Side B.
Normals
Jab
The thing with the spear is that it only hurts at long distance but not at short range, is closer to DDD's hammer than marth's sword.
Also he cant cannonically fly... i like to imagine him with "kirby throw" grabs but thats it, to me is cool, but not a really "unique" adition (not that all the character needs to be unique to be fun).
...except for his FS that could be adjusted in area, knockback and direction, yes, megaton punch.
Dark Matter.
I guess is the sword wielder what everyone is expecting from it.
Goey give us a clue about him: copy abbilities, yes, as unexpected as it sounds.
He has this "dark ball" similar to ganon's pingpong balls, regular cutter beams and to infect people with darkness (poison gimmick?). A pojectile bassed character with powerfull close range moves.
Characters with the "giant floating head gimmick" like king boo shouldnt have "ground and air moves" but a mix of them, which means air smashes, air jabs and air grabs, something crazy but not exactly unique for dark matter, but we can say he is the first "giant floating head sword user" xD
Here some sprites from Mass Attack (Kirby Quest), easy to follow what moves he could use:
People always seemed to give him Dee abbilities when bandana really have nothing to do with them, he is all about the spear. He doesnt represent the whole dee race, he is not toad, he represents a loyal friend to DDD, like impa.
UP B. exactly.
Neutral B.
Down B.
Side B.
Normals
Jab
The thing with the spear is that it only hurts at long distance but not at short range, is closer to DDD's hammer than marth's sword.
Also he cant cannonically fly... i like to imagine him with "kirby throw" grabs but thats it, to me is cool, but not a really "unique" adition (not that all the character needs to be unique to be fun).
...except for his FS that could be adjusted in area, knockback and direction, yes, megaton punch.
Dark Matter.
I guess is the sword wielder what everyone is expecting from it.
Goey give us a clue about him: copy abbilities, yes, as unexpected as it sounds.
He has this "dark ball" similar to ganon's pingpong balls, regular cutter beams and to infect people with darkness (poison gimmick?). A pojectile bassed character with powerfull close range moves.
Characters with the "giant floating head gimmick" like king boo shouldnt have "ground and air moves" but a mix of them, which means air smashes, air jabs and air grabs, something crazy but not exactly unique for dark matter, but we can say he is the first "giant floating head sword user" xD
Here some sprites from Mass Attack (Kirby Quest), easy to follow what moves he could use:
D
Deleted member
Guest
Bandanna Dee: B-
The unique weapon counts for something and the personality means that his moveset can have a slightly clumsy edge. Spears can be used long or close-range, of course, plus there are aspects of a Waddle Dee that can be applied directly to a set. It's a fairly original shape and size for a character, outside the obvious Waddle Dee Throw, but there's not a whole lot outside of that. What'd it look like for him to grab an opponent? I can't imagine much imaginative going on in the smashes. He needs another element to make him work. When you swap out the spear for other props or weapons, it really doesn't feel right to me either, and that would be especially odd if only for one set of inputs. However, for a unique weapon and good personality to express some of what Kirby is into nowadays, I'd say he's around Meowth's level.
Dark Matter: A
I had to mostly look up what he can do, I can't remember much of it myself from the games. Basically the kind of character who has a perfect set of standards and aerials, and for the rest he can interpret plenty of his own abilities into new types of attacks. The standards and aerials would use his sword, which is more of a magical sword to give some variety to his swordplay over the others. For the grab and specials, well, take your pick: there seem to be an infinite amount of options for every input. If anything it's just hard to imagine how Sakurai would take all that crazy over-the-top potential and break it down into a condensed moveset, but it'd definitely be very unique.
There's nothing really blatant for each input like you could say for Bayonetta or Midna, though, which is why, in my opinion, he's not deserving of S tier. If you were to keep him in his swordsman form, the creative stuff he does with fire beams and other magic probably takes him up to A regardless, albeit it's a clean stop and no way can he go to a higher point. In that case his smashes are very obvious and his grab game becomes basically a generic grab that has some personalized throws, at best.
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BluePikmin11
Akko is my dear daughter!
This was surprisingly a short day for responses on Bandanna Dee.
Today we are rating Samurai Goroh and Black Shadow, can the two racers prove that they can be unique enough to be on the top of the tier list.
Remember, analyses are recommended, but grades are fine too.
I think I'm going to tag @
YoshiandToad
since I think he knows about Samurai Goroh.
Today we are rating Samurai Goroh and Black Shadow, can the two racers prove that they can be unique enough to be on the top of the tier list.
Remember, analyses are recommended, but grades are fine too.
I think I'm going to tag @
YoshiandToad
since I think he knows about Samurai Goroh.
BluePikmin11
Akko is my dear daughter!
From what I seen, people say he would have the moves of Ganondorf, so i say I give him a uniqueness grade of C. It's nothing real new.
Goroh would be a heavy strong swordsman, but it's nothing of the spectacular IMO, so a C+.
Goroh would be a heavy strong swordsman, but it's nothing of the spectacular IMO, so a C+.
YoshiandToad
Smash Hero
God help Goroh if I'm the best he's got. I'm not exactly the kind of guy who supports someone for their uniqueness preferring series importance, and frankly I find gimmicky playstyles irritating, but since he is my number 3 most wanted newcomer, I guess I better throw my hat in the ring.
Samurai Goroh
Samurai Goroh is Captain Falcon's long term rival, a character of whom has made a few appearances within Smash; he was racing Falcon in Melee's intro(leading many to think he, Ridley and Wolf may be playable characters...sadly not) and more famously the very first Assist Trophy ever revealed.
1. How many diverse options does this character have?
Canonically Samurai Goroh is an amazing swordsman who is suprisingly fast despite his impressive bulk. His vehicle; The Fire Stingray has the max speed of the original four F-Zero cars, and is also the heaviest.
Goroh in other words reflects his car similarly to Captain Falcon. Technically this can be translated into Smash as a slow starting character who speeds up as combos and the like build with the blade, allowing for a focus on keeping momentum going.
Goroh is also a thief. Being able to steal items from opponents hands could be a fun mechanic to work with.
Actual moveset wise Samurai Goroh has a lot of strong, sword based moves(he's been shown in some versions to be able to slice tanks and missiles in two), but most likely would be a cross between Ike and his rival Falcon.
2. Is their moves or abilities diverse from the rest of the cast?
At the time of this writing there are no other samurai within Smash(Takamaru is anticipated highly obviously, but he's not been confirmed yet) which gives Goroh a niche.
The attributes/abilities I've described above are fairly unique; a heavyweight speedster is a rare thing indeed and using the abilities of his car such as the incredible fast top speed through combos could be fun and satisfying to pull off.
Moveset wise, Goroh's a very strange beast. He's a heavy swordsman like Ike...but his slashes are more akin to Metaknights(rapid and reckless according to his Assist Trophy). His round body looks like he'd be more at home using sumo to fight, but he'd most likely be more focused on insane slashes.
He'd obviously most likely share some similarities with Falcon, much like Starfox characters all share the same basic moves and all Fire Emblem Lords thus far have a Counter abilitiy. Most likely Samurai Goroh would have a similar side B to Captain Falcon referencing the boosts found in the F-Zero game.
The Falcon Punch of course would not feature in Goroh's moveset, and would most likely be replaced with a chargable slash attack. Whilst Goroh is likely to be able to pull off moves involving his body, I feel emphasis would be placed upon his reckless swordstyle.
Final Smash would almost definitely be a carbon copy of Captain Falcon's though.
3. Has the concept of the character been done before?
Has a character based off his vehicular stats been done before? Yes; Falcon, and the Starfox crew.
Has a heavy swordsman been done before? Yes; Ike.
Has a momentum based character been done before? Not to my knowledge.
Has a thief gimmick been done before? No.
3a. If it has been done before is the character's way of doing it unique on its own?
Sword style: If we go by the Assist Trophy, Goroh's swordstyle seems to be a mad reckless slash style which is powerful but unfocused.
Vehicular Stats: Heavyweight speedster with a high top speed, but takes a while to get his fat backside moving.
4. Does the characters abilities and moves provide enough to be entertaining?
I actually do believe Goroh would probably be a lot of fun to play, especially when you start getting combos off and increasing that momentum. This would probably be insanely satisfying to pull off. Plus stealing weapons right out of the opponents hands could be incredibly funny for those who play with Items on.
5. How visually different is the character in term of body shape and looks?
Well, he's MOST similar body wise to Wario currently from the Smash Roster; a muscular but fat sumo wrestler shaped body. Visually he stands out compared to him by having a more realistic looking appearance, whilst at the same time being the only swordsman to not have an athletic build.
His outfit is quite striking and there's very little chance people will get confused between him and the opponent during the heat of a match. I'd say when it comes to looks, there's no one that really looks quite like Goroh.
6. Does it fit the character well enough?
I feel I've been pretty fair here. Goroh's moves are very much up for debate, but his attributes fit him to a tee. As long as he has his swordstyle, and similar stats to the Fire Stingray I feel Sakurai would have done his job. The thief gimmick I suggested earlier DOES fit, but it's less prominent on Goroh than say...Meowth or Nabbit(who is pretty much known ONLY for stealing).
Uniqueness rating: B-/C+(not sure but it's around there)
Honestly heavy swordsmen aren't super unique(thanks to Ike and arguably Link) and Goroh would almost definitely have certain similarities to his popular rival due to F-Zero having a rather limited amount of moveset choice to pull from(a hazard of being a racer). I'd argue that the way in which he would be played, particularly with the momentum combo moveset could be very entertaining but probably would not be enough alone to wow the majority in terms of sheer uniqueness.
Visually; Goroh stands out well against the other characters and has a very iconic look. No way anyone would confuse him and Wario or him and Falcon in a battle.
Samurai Goroh
Samurai Goroh is Captain Falcon's long term rival, a character of whom has made a few appearances within Smash; he was racing Falcon in Melee's intro(leading many to think he, Ridley and Wolf may be playable characters...sadly not) and more famously the very first Assist Trophy ever revealed.
1. How many diverse options does this character have?
Canonically Samurai Goroh is an amazing swordsman who is suprisingly fast despite his impressive bulk. His vehicle; The Fire Stingray has the max speed of the original four F-Zero cars, and is also the heaviest.
Goroh in other words reflects his car similarly to Captain Falcon. Technically this can be translated into Smash as a slow starting character who speeds up as combos and the like build with the blade, allowing for a focus on keeping momentum going.
Goroh is also a thief. Being able to steal items from opponents hands could be a fun mechanic to work with.
Actual moveset wise Samurai Goroh has a lot of strong, sword based moves(he's been shown in some versions to be able to slice tanks and missiles in two), but most likely would be a cross between Ike and his rival Falcon.
2. Is their moves or abilities diverse from the rest of the cast?
At the time of this writing there are no other samurai within Smash(Takamaru is anticipated highly obviously, but he's not been confirmed yet) which gives Goroh a niche.
The attributes/abilities I've described above are fairly unique; a heavyweight speedster is a rare thing indeed and using the abilities of his car such as the incredible fast top speed through combos could be fun and satisfying to pull off.
Moveset wise, Goroh's a very strange beast. He's a heavy swordsman like Ike...but his slashes are more akin to Metaknights(rapid and reckless according to his Assist Trophy). His round body looks like he'd be more at home using sumo to fight, but he'd most likely be more focused on insane slashes.
He'd obviously most likely share some similarities with Falcon, much like Starfox characters all share the same basic moves and all Fire Emblem Lords thus far have a Counter abilitiy. Most likely Samurai Goroh would have a similar side B to Captain Falcon referencing the boosts found in the F-Zero game.
The Falcon Punch of course would not feature in Goroh's moveset, and would most likely be replaced with a chargable slash attack. Whilst Goroh is likely to be able to pull off moves involving his body, I feel emphasis would be placed upon his reckless swordstyle.
Final Smash would almost definitely be a carbon copy of Captain Falcon's though.
3. Has the concept of the character been done before?
Has a character based off his vehicular stats been done before? Yes; Falcon, and the Starfox crew.
Has a heavy swordsman been done before? Yes; Ike.
Has a momentum based character been done before? Not to my knowledge.
Has a thief gimmick been done before? No.
3a. If it has been done before is the character's way of doing it unique on its own?
Sword style: If we go by the Assist Trophy, Goroh's swordstyle seems to be a mad reckless slash style which is powerful but unfocused.
Vehicular Stats: Heavyweight speedster with a high top speed, but takes a while to get his fat backside moving.
4. Does the characters abilities and moves provide enough to be entertaining?
I actually do believe Goroh would probably be a lot of fun to play, especially when you start getting combos off and increasing that momentum. This would probably be insanely satisfying to pull off. Plus stealing weapons right out of the opponents hands could be incredibly funny for those who play with Items on.
5. How visually different is the character in term of body shape and looks?
Well, he's MOST similar body wise to Wario currently from the Smash Roster; a muscular but fat sumo wrestler shaped body. Visually he stands out compared to him by having a more realistic looking appearance, whilst at the same time being the only swordsman to not have an athletic build.
His outfit is quite striking and there's very little chance people will get confused between him and the opponent during the heat of a match. I'd say when it comes to looks, there's no one that really looks quite like Goroh.
6. Does it fit the character well enough?
I feel I've been pretty fair here. Goroh's moves are very much up for debate, but his attributes fit him to a tee. As long as he has his swordstyle, and similar stats to the Fire Stingray I feel Sakurai would have done his job. The thief gimmick I suggested earlier DOES fit, but it's less prominent on Goroh than say...Meowth or Nabbit(who is pretty much known ONLY for stealing).
Uniqueness rating: B-/C+(not sure but it's around there)
Honestly heavy swordsmen aren't super unique(thanks to Ike and arguably Link) and Goroh would almost definitely have certain similarities to his popular rival due to F-Zero having a rather limited amount of moveset choice to pull from(a hazard of being a racer). I'd argue that the way in which he would be played, particularly with the momentum combo moveset could be very entertaining but probably would not be enough alone to wow the majority in terms of sheer uniqueness.
Visually; Goroh stands out well against the other characters and has a very iconic look. No way anyone would confuse him and Wario or him and Falcon in a battle.
andimidna
Smash Master
Are those the only Kirby characters we're rating?
Dark Matter isn't much of a top contender of the series...
I find Magolor, Knuckle Joe, and Primce Fluff more likely than him.
I see most people suggesting BS takes Falcondorf's moveset.
A clone of a clone.
I think his magic could get him somewhere, but not above a D.
Samurai Goroh is also pretty low. While not similar CFalcon, his sword can't do much we haven't seen.
C-
Dark Matter isn't much of a top contender of the series...
I find Magolor, Knuckle Joe, and Primce Fluff more likely than him.
I see most people suggesting BS takes Falcondorf's moveset.
A clone of a clone.
I think his magic could get him somewhere, but not above a D.
Samurai Goroh is also pretty low. While not similar CFalcon, his sword can't do much we haven't seen.
C-
Pacack
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Black Shadow: C+
While he's ridiculously likely to take Ganondorf's moveset if he makes it into Smash, Black Shadow actually has several abilities of his own to pull from. He's a magic user and could, theoretically, have a moveset like the one people are suggesting for Ganondorf to get.
Unfortunately, I don't know too much, but I'll tag @GoldenYuiitusin for this day, since I remember him supporting both these guys.
While he's ridiculously likely to take Ganondorf's moveset if he makes it into Smash, Black Shadow actually has several abilities of his own to pull from. He's a magic user and could, theoretically, have a moveset like the one people are suggesting for Ganondorf to get.
Unfortunately, I don't know too much, but I'll tag @GoldenYuiitusin for this day, since I remember him supporting both these guys.
D
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If we're taking the hypothetical Black Shadowdorf route at face value, then yeah, "uniqueness" would be low, since B. Shadow would pretty much be inheriting Ganondorf's old attacks while Ganondorf gets a major rehaul.
But at the same time, because it factors in changing Ganondorf, this should be graded as if it was Captain Ganon himself being graded. NOT "a clone of Ganondorf".
Now, if we're talking in general, as in, what the individual would have to offer, then B. Shadow would have to have a higher grade. Especially over Goroh (who I also support; don't mistake this for bias).
-Black magic/voodoo:
*Binding energy chains
*Teleportation
*Time manipulation (in the sense of forcibly sending someone to the past)
*Spontaneous combustion (applied to enemies, not him
)
*Mass explosions at the snap of a finger
*Shapeshifting
*Recreation of artificial beings from liquid
-Superhuman strength
-Near invulnerability
These are among what he has.
But at the same time, because it factors in changing Ganondorf, this should be graded as if it was Captain Ganon himself being graded. NOT "a clone of Ganondorf".
Now, if we're talking in general, as in, what the individual would have to offer, then B. Shadow would have to have a higher grade. Especially over Goroh (who I also support; don't mistake this for bias).
-Black magic/voodoo:
*Binding energy chains
*Teleportation
*Time manipulation (in the sense of forcibly sending someone to the past)
*Spontaneous combustion (applied to enemies, not him
)*Mass explosions at the snap of a finger
*Shapeshifting
*Recreation of artificial beings from liquid
-Superhuman strength
-Near invulnerability
These are among what he has.
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andimidna
Smash Master
Hmm... alright, that sounds good, bump my grade up a letter please
D
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Samurai Goroh: C
As has already been touched upon, Goroh emulates his racer in the same way as Captain Falcon: he's sturdy and fast. This can translate into his statistics and give a sense of personality to his moves, which helps to bring him above complete mediocrity. Aside from that, he's a swordsman. The one asterisk to that is he's specifically a samurai, which are not featured yet in Smash Bros, but could very well be, not by Goroh, but Takamaru. There are plenty of other samurai-inspired characters out there, Goroh obviously comes up short when the only notable time he steps out of his racer is not in his own games, but as an assist trophy.
Black Shadow: B
Everything said for Goroh is true here, as Black Shadow's racer would naturally take a huge role in defining his statistical properties and playstyle. He's not the fastest, but incredibly trick and powerful. This would translate into a heavyweight who happens to be able to utilize magic too, making him an awkwardly good doppelganger for Ganondorf even without the fitting moveset he could just take up. Black Shadow may do plenty of things out and about when he's arguably Falcon's true rival in F-Zero, but much of it is very wacky and not workable for a moveset. It's hard to gauge where to place him when he'd obviously be a clone of Falcon for the most part and Goroh I honestly feel has a better shot for an original set due to his sword. However, for what he can potentially do he's a solid tier above Goroh and what Sakurai would do with that potential is of no consequence here.
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Goroh C
Not the most unique character, but he does have a sword that's yet to show up in Smash. He lacks a lot of material to use for his specials.
Black Shadow D
Kind of just a dark clone of Falcon, I don't know what you could really do with him
Not the most unique character, but he does have a sword that's yet to show up in Smash. He lacks a lot of material to use for his specials.
Black Shadow D
Kind of just a dark clone of Falcon, I don't know what you could really do with him
BluePikmin11
Akko is my dear daughter!
Ok, I think we going to have end this day now immediately, because I think it's possible that they will be revealed in this direct.
Today we are rating two Animal Crossing characters, one is a merchant, the other is a mole with a pickaxe, Mr. Resett and Tom Nook.
Remember analyses are recommended, but giving off a grade is just as fine.
Tagging @
Starcutter
for Tom Nook.
Today we are rating two Animal Crossing characters, one is a merchant, the other is a mole with a pickaxe, Mr. Resett and Tom Nook.
Remember analyses are recommended, but giving off a grade is just as fine.
Tagging @
Starcutter
for Tom Nook.
Pacack
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Tom Nook: C-
Most likely semi-clone material. I could see a few of his moves being changed from Villager's, but not many.
Resetti: B+
No character with a pickaxe left, so that would be interesting. Then there's also the potential of him being a digger like Muddy Mole, which would be very interesting. Not sure what else, though.
Most likely semi-clone material. I could see a few of his moves being changed from Villager's, but not many.
Resetti: B+
No character with a pickaxe left, so that would be interesting. Then there's also the potential of him being a digger like Muddy Mole, which would be very interesting. Not sure what else, though.
D
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Tom Nook: C-
Nook wouldn't be an outright Villager clone, in my opinion, although there would of course be more than a few similarities as they hail from the same, anti-fighting series of games. I can see Nook using his almost thief-like bartering ability in some abstract way very easily, mostly in the form of his grab or a special. The use of furniture or other miscellaneous items from the series make up the rest of his potential. Unlike Villager, Tom Nook is pretty stern and serious as a character, but also pretty lazy. This can help to differentiate the way he does use moves over Villager if they share common ideas. However, we all know that Tom Nook has no real fighting potential, just tonnes of props and a greedy personality.
Mr. Resetti: B+
He's a digger who has a pickaxe and is always in a foul mood; a character who can't jump, sort of like Diglett, would be very unique. He can work by burrowing through the ground and using his pickaxe as a weapon or to throw at opponents maybe a bit like the Hammer Bros. It may sound weird but I think Animal Crossing is goofy enough for it to be justified. That alone boosts his score a bit, but it's hard to see how they'd even do aerials on this guy,
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Pacack
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Mr. Resetti: B
He's a digger who has a pickaxe and is always in a foul mood; a character who can't jump, sort of like Diglett, would be very unique. He can work by burrowing through the ground and using his pickaxe as a weapon or to throw at opponents maybe a bit like the Hammer Bros. It may sound weird but I think Animal Crossing is goofy enough for it to be justified. That alone boosts his score a bit, but it's hard to see how they'd even do aerials on this guy, ignoring the fact some inputs may just be impossible. The workaround they'd have to go for would be unique though, perhaps letting him ride a dust ball or dirt mound. I can also definitely imagine a set of standards, smashes and specials that would be incredibly different based solely off of his mechanics. It's a bit of a combination of Muddy Mole and Diglett.
Why not this?
D
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Starcutter
Resident Beedrill
Wait what why did I get tagged? I haven't really played animal crossing much
False Sense
Ad Astra Per Aspera
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...Aren't you the owner of the Tom Nook support thread? Shouldn't you have some examples to pull up or something?Wait what why did I get tagged? I haven't really played animal crossing much
Starcutter
Resident Beedrill
....um.
I'm not really too involved in THIS thread, if I was, I'd do it for sure! plus I have played SOME animal crossing, but only the gamecube one.
BluePikmin11
Akko is my dear daughter!
Well this is extrmely ironic, Tom Nook was deconfirmed, I guess this just leaves Mr. Resetti I guess.
BluePikmin11
Akko is my dear daughter!
Jason the Yoshi
Watching Me, Wanting Me
Krystal has a very high chance of being playable
B- Fire Blast
Works like Yoshi's Egg Throw, but can be charged
Side B- Freezer
Works like the Ice Climbers Blizzard, but Krystal can move while doing it
Up and B- Rocket Boost
Uses her staff's boost technique as a recovery move.
Down and B- Earthquake
When on the ground, it can charge up for a higher magnitude, but when in the air, it works like the Yoshi Bomb
Final Smash- DinoStrike
Boards her pteranodon and gets in front of the camera like Snake's Grenade Launcher, and fires homing shots from her staff on opponents, and finishes off by charging like the Dragoon
Slippy on the other hand would be a kinda sorta lame addition to Smash
B- Fire Blast
Works like Yoshi's Egg Throw, but can be charged
Side B- Freezer
Works like the Ice Climbers Blizzard, but Krystal can move while doing it
Up and B- Rocket Boost
Uses her staff's boost technique as a recovery move.
Down and B- Earthquake
When on the ground, it can charge up for a higher magnitude, but when in the air, it works like the Yoshi Bomb
Final Smash- DinoStrike
Boards her pteranodon and gets in front of the camera like Snake's Grenade Launcher, and fires homing shots from her staff on opponents, and finishes off by charging like the Dragoon
Slippy on the other hand would be a kinda sorta lame addition to Smash
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