The Uniqueness Tier List: Captain Falcon, Robin, Lucina, Shulk, and Meta-Knight

[Louie G.]

@ Cpt.
You're talking to Luigi's number one fan here.
That being said Luigi shares as many similarities with Mario than Wolf does with Fox.

Was it really necessary to rate these characters just in case of the "potential" Direct reveal? We still have plenty of completely viable retros to do including Lip, Donbe and Hikari, Excitebiker, Sukapon and Sheriff.

We're not done with retro week, it's only on hold.

 

[Cpt.]

@ Cpt.
You're talking to Luigi's number one fan here.
That being said Luigi shares as many similarities with Mario than Wolf does with Fox.
We're not done with retro week, it's only on hold.

Hmm....I mean Luigi has

Fireball
Green Missile
Super Jump Punch (with OTK)
Spin
Negative Zone

That is 2 (ish) that he shares with Mario

Wolf has

Blastor
Wolf Flash (angled)
Fire Wolf
Reflector
Landmaster

That is 4 (ish) that he shares with Fox

Both characters have altered attributes to their "originals"

 

[Louie G.]

@ Cpt.
Special moves aren't all that matter. There are basic attacks and overall playstyle as well. And Wolf Flash and Wolf's Blaster are different enough to be called their own moves (as Wolf Flash has a spike at the end as well).
I hardly consider Luigi a clone, but he is as cloney as Wolf and Jiggs. Which isn't cloney at all.

 

[Cpt.]

@ Cpt.
Special moves aren't all that matter. There are basic attacks and overall playstyle as well. And Wolf Flash and Wolf's Blaster are different enough to be called their own moves (as Wolf Flash has a spike at the end as well).
I hardly consider Luigi a clone, but he is as cloney as Wolf and Jiggs. Which isn't cloney at all.

I didn't say that his blaster is the same, I completely agree with you on that (why I colored it grey like wolf). I also colored Wolf's Flash both colors because it is similar, but different so I count it more like a half (like I count Luigi's up B as a half).

Wolf isn't as cloney as Ganon or T. Link, but he is more cloney than Luigi.

 

[ToothiestAura]

Was it really necessary to rate these characters just in case of the "potential" Direct reveal? We still have plenty of completely viable retros to do including Lip, Donbe and Hikari, Excitebiker, Sukapon and Sheriff.

Probably not necessary, no. But it will be a quick vote and we can likely get back to the retros later tonight.

 

[FirstBlade]

Cranky Kong

1. How many diverse options does the character have? .
I've got nothing....he would probably be a slower medium speed and relatively weak character that has good combo options and projectiles for zoning.
2. Is their moves or abilities diverse from the rest of the cast?
He has a couple options. Of course, Cranky could use his cane as a weapon as we've now seen him do in Tropical Freeze. He is able to bounce off obstacles with his cane like a pogo stick which he should be able to do off of characters (and hazards?) as well as the inevitable cane whack. Also from Tropical Freeze, Cranky has a Denture Gun. To differentiate this from Diddy's peanuts, they would probably have to bounce or something. Because Cranky Kong is the original Donkey Kong he could have the ability to throw barrels and possible springs for some zoning techniques. Considering that he works as a shopkeeper in Returns, it is also not too crazy to think he could maybe use the balloon, banana juice and Squawks items from said shop. Out of these items, the banana juice would probably offer the most, giving him limited invincibility (but then again the Starman item is essentially the same thing). Various potions and whatnot from his younger days also seems plausible. Him using Banana coins, DK coins and oil barrels sounds like a stretch though. Possibly, he could be able to call on his deceased wife, Wrinkly as well.
3. Has the concept of the character been done before?
Yes. Cranky would probably be either a normal rushdown type character or maybe zoning, both of which have been done in a Smash game.
3a. If it has been done before is the character's way of doing it unique on its own?
Eh.... the cane may be able to put a spin on things, but I just don't see anything else here effectively altering the playstyle of a typical rushdown or zoner.
4. Does the characters abilities and moves provide enough to be entertaining?
Whacking people with a cane could be interesting and somewhat comical and the barrels and springs could offer some nostalgia for some people maybe but aside from this I really don't see much else sticking out.
5. How visually different is the character in term of body shape and looks?
Different enough. He may end up look a little similar to Diddy Kong and Donkey Kong for some people simply because they are monkeys but Cranky has some noticeable difference from them, most notably the beard, glasses and cane.
6. Does it fit the character well enough?
All of the stuff he actually does (or has done) obviously fits well like the cane, denture gun and rolling barrels. The other stuff fits a lot less (banana juice, DK coins, etc.) but still seems plausible in a way.

Uniqueness rating: C, I don't really see the cane being different enough to make him stand out, there isn't exactly much you could do with it other than what is in TF to be honest and even how he uses it in TF is not substantial enough to really make him feel unique. The DK throwbacks could be nice but don't really offer anything considerably new either, like most of his other objects, they are pretty much typical projectiles. Also, most of his normal moves would probably end up being cane swipes, which while funny, can be easily boring if it ends up being most of his moveset. Finally, his gameplay options are quite low and none of them seem to offer anything very original. Pretty much your typical rushdown and zoning character.

 

[Cpt.]

Cranky Kong
1. How many diverse options does the character have? .
I've got nothing....he would probably be a slower medium speed and relatively weak character that has good combo options and projectiles for zoning.
2. Is their moves or abilities diverse from the rest of the cast?
He has a couple options. Of course, Cranky could use his cane as a weapon as we've now seen him do in Tropical Freeze. He is able to bounce off obstacles with his cane like a pogo stick which he should be able to do off of characters (and hazards?) as well as the inevitable cane whack. Also from Tropical Freeze, Cranky has a Denture Gun. To differentiate this from Diddy's peanuts, they would probably have to bounce or something. Because Cranky Kong is the original Donkey Kong he could have the ability to throw barrels and possible springs for some zoning techniques. Considering that he works as a shopkeeper in Returns, it is also not too crazy to think he could maybe use the balloon, banana juice and Squawks items from said shop. Out of these items, the banana juice would probably offer the most, giving him limited invincibility (but then again the Starman item is essentially the same thing). Various potions and whatnot from his younger days also seems plausible. Him using Banana coins, DK coins and oil barrels sounds like a stretch though. Possibly, he could be able to call on his deceased wife, Wrinkly as well.
3. Has the concept of the character been done before?
Yes. Cranky would probably be either a normal rushdown type character or maybe zoning, both of which have been done in a Smash game.
3a. If it has been done before is the character's way of doing it unique on its own?
Eh.... the cane may be able to put a spin on things, but I just don't see anything else here effectively altering the playstyle of a typical rushdown or zoner.
4. Does the characters abilities and moves provide enough to be entertaining?
Whacking people with a cane could be interesting and somewhat comical and the barrels and springs could offer some nostalgia for some people maybe but aside from this I really don't see much else sticking out.
5. How visually different is the character in term of body shape and looks?
Different enough. He may end up look a little similar to Diddy Kong and Donkey Kong for some people simply because they are monkeys but Cranky has some noticeable difference from them, most notably the beard, glasses and cane.
6. Does it fit the character well enough?
All of the stuff he actually does (or has done) obviously fits well like the cane, denture gun and rolling barrels. The other stuff fits a lot less (banana juice, DK coins, etc.) but still seems plausible in a way.
Uniqueness rating: C, I don't really see the cane being different enough to make him stand out, there isn't exactly much you could do with it other than what is in TF to be honest and even how he uses it in TF is not substantial enough to really make him feel unique. The DK throwbacks could be nice but don't really offer anything considerably new either, like most of his other objects, they are pretty much typical projectiles. Also, most of his normal moves would probably end up being cane swipes, which while funny, can be easily boring if it ends up being most of his moveset. Finally, his gameplay options are quite low and none of them seem to offer anything very original. Pretty much your typical rushdown and zoning character.

Springs are a cool idea to implement. Although Sonic has a spring, Cranky could use them more like an item, or have a horizontal spring rather than a vertical one. Other than that, he would probably just be slow though. Neat ideas. I could see him being a C+

 

[BluePikmin11]

You know, I'm glad we did Little Mac's day before he was revealed, before we had suggest a Star System, but now it's a KO system, it's basically the same thing, only if you get hit, you lose your KO move.
Are we ending this day soon?

 

[Louie G.]

You know, I'm glad we did Little Mac's day before he was revealed, before we had suggest a Star System, but now it's a KO system, it's basically the same thing.
Are we ending this day soon?

Soon.
Probably tomorrow because hype.

 

[Bowserlick]

So how did we do on our Little Mac predictions? Not too shabby.

 

[Louie G.]

So how did we do on our Little Mac predictions? Not too shabby.

Not bad at all.
We had a similar gimmick. He doesn't use stars, but the Power Meter instead.
I would put him in A as he stands right now, and that's where he is.

 

[Louie G.]

Alright, I suppose it's time to put an end to DK day.

Dixie and Cranky both ended the day with a C rating. Nothing to exciting comes from either of them, I suppose.

Diddy and Dixie tag team, on the other hand, got an A. A tag team is nothing new, but a DKC2 style tag team may be interesting. I don't hate the idea as much as I used to.

Today we will go back to retro week, and rate Lip and Duck Hunt Dog. Lip's got puzzle equipment at her disposal, but how much does that make her stand out? DHD can laugh, but what else can he do?

Tagging @ ~ Valkyrie ~ and @Kapus for Lip and @ Arcadenik for DHD.

 

[lordvaati]

I don't know why, but I could see Lip having a block drop move that works like Peacock's Shadow of Impending doom in that it has more power the longer the button is held.

 

[FirstBlade]

Lip

1. How many diverse options does this character have?
Lip has potential to be the first ever actual "sapper" as I like to call it in Smash. Armed with the Lip's Stick from Brawl, all of her attacks utilizing the stick (most normal attacks) would leave some lasting after effects just as the item does in Brawl and Melee. This is also similar to poison attacks. This means she is a damage racking character so to speak, in which her initial attacks are quite weak but can easily add up due to the aftereffects. Your best be on your guard when facing her then! This being said, she would most likely be a super lightweight character that is incapable of taking too many hits. Lip can additionally be a trickster type character who can mess with even the most sane Smash players if used correctly (see below).
2. Is their moves or abilities diverse from the rest of the cast?
Absolutely, I already mentioned the Lip's Stick above but she has plenty of other possibilities regarding attacks. The Lip Stick being a sort of wand could have the potential to shoot projectile magical blasts similar to the magic it emits in Brawl. Maybe it can even shoot blocks based on the game. Each block type would do a different amount and maybe type of damage (triangle, circle, heart, diamond, and star). Possibly, instead of disappearing the block could bounce off and land allowing it to be picked up and thrown.

Lip comes from the puzzle game Panel de Pon, a game in which you swap blocks to get a 3 in a row match (think Candy Crush or Bejeweled). This swap mechanic (courtesy of Young Horsetail) can be placed into a Smash game in a variety of ways and maybe it could actually be a 3-in-1 move (get it?). 1 way of use could be that Lip swaps the places of 2 opponents in front of her, which could easily leave one of them open to Lip's attacks. Another one could be that Lip swaps places with the opponent herself. Imagine using this on someone waiting near the edge to hit you while you are trying to recover in the air. The results could be hilarious to say the least as the opponent switches places with you and falls to their doom (or at least in put into a much worse position). Also, imagine using this move to switch with an opponent before you are about to get it, so you they take the damage instead. This may also be able to work with the blocks I mentioned above. Switching 2 blocks would act as an attack in itself for those hit by the block while it is switching.

There is also something known as a garbage block. As lordvaati mentioned it could be a chargeable move that drops the block directly in front of her, the more you charge it the bigger and stronger the block is.

Finally, Lip being the fairy of flowers could have access to magical petals (think an artstyle similar to Peach's hearts) used in a vein similar to Zelda to jazz up her normal moves. Maybe even magical blasts based on the things depicted on the blocks (stars, diamonds (jewel type?), hearts, circles and triangles) Lip also has access to a baton and could possibly use a Watabou (a dandelion like bird) for a recovery. Lip has also been depicted to sit in the center of a floating flower which gives another possibility for a recovery.
There is probably even more than this, but I've already gone on fro quite some time in this section.
3. Has the concept of the character been done before?
No, neither a sapper or puzzler/trickster type character has been done before. The closest character would be Olimar.
4. Does the characters abilities and moves provide enough to be entertaining?
Yes, it could be very fun to mess with other players as well as the added petals, hearts, stars and other things could be visually appealing. Lip is also very expressive which is always a plus.
5. How visually different is the character in terms of body shape and looks?
Very. I think the taller version (above) is the better one and the one more fit for a Smash game and it and the shorter version (also above) are both very different looking from anyone in Smash.
6. Does it fit the character well enough?
Obviously, most everything above comes straight out of the gameplay of Panel de Pon, and it being a puzzle game woudl fit Lip's role as a trickster. The other things are girly enough or derived from Panel de Pon to fit well on her.

Uniqueness Rating: S, the sapper/trickster type gameplay has potential to be truly unique and unlike any character so far in a Smash game. This and the fact that she can have unique special and normal moves (that can also be very visually appearing) I think puts her on par with Rosalina and Luma and Villager.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Never been in this thread but I got tagged and since it's Lip, don't mind.

Lip

1. How many diverse options does this character have?

Lip would be a nightmare to those who rush down on beating their opponents and are easy to drive to a corner: with quirky playstyle of a poisonous "sapper", she emphasizes on making opponent grow damage by her flower magic while zoning and using tactics in order to round out her weaknesses being one of the most lightweight characters in the game with low KO power.

Elaborating also is her being flower fairy, which lends her to use magic powers with a flowery plant-life motive and so on. Combined with her baton, this could give her ranger on her attacks, which would strengthen her zoning game. Along with this would be her being very graceful fighter on air and have multiple jumps (imagined as "skips" on the air).

2. Is their moves or abilities diverse from the rest of the Smash cast?

Absolutely. She can derive a lot from her game series, her baton and her flower fairy motive, something that not other characters have:

- Firstly, her wand has been a mainstay item in the series until now, leaving a flower when whacked an opponent with. This makes them get their damage sapped up, which can be accumulated further by more blows.
This reflects upon Panel De Pon's nature of racking chains in sequence to grow bigger garbage blocks to bury your opponent's block stack down. Showcased in this video.


For this reason, we could expect and evolved playstyle based on this: she would primarily be a "sapper" in her moves, with her flower opening and closing to indicate which attacks make the magical spores be emitted. A lot of Lip's attacks would have low damage, but would be able to come quite quickly enough to build on each hit. Due this, her damage potential would be obscenely huge - if not the biggest when compared to rest of the fighters. However she has low knockback in her most of her attacks, which further emphasizes on her playing carefully with the opponent and making him suffer before being ripe for KO.
Most of the time this would play out as building the damage quickly to huge heights and then kill off her enemy with a strong attack, while keeping them at bay to ensure not getting damaged on.

- Panel De Pon has certain mechanics that can be taken from her game to give her nifty tools to enhance her zoning game and punishing opponents from approaching her.

These include the cursor for swapping opponents' positions instead of panels and using her garbage blocks to punish airborn opponents with a meteor smash or give some space if summoned on the ground. This could give her an incredible zoning and edgeguarding game and access certain unique tactics. FirstBlade had already elaborated on these but a lot seem taken from my age-old moveset for Lip.


- Lip being a flower fairy, it can be expected that plenty of her attack motives derive these themes, being in form of plants, flowers, petals and so on. There's also some of her pet companions she can use from her games (like Watabou) for recovery, and generally have a good aerial floaty game to prevent juggles. In anycase, her baton and magic powers might give her more fitting feel of being a zoner with some trickstery mechanics if paired with her weight. (Perhaps could become the most light-weight character after Jigglypuff.)

- Rainbows are known to be Lip's favourite things, played right from on them being her means of transport in Panel De Pon and her creating one to spread her flower magic on Mimin Island back in Captain Rainbow.


3. Has the concept of the character been done before?

Nope. Her stick seems to be source of this, of course, but it would then be just ascended to an actual playstyle. Olimar has Pikmin Throw which more or less functions similarly.

4. Does the character's abilities and moves provide enough to be entertaining?

Of course! With a quirky yet deep playstyle , plus cute fairy magic visuals befitting of her, she would appear very appealing and stand out plenty from rest of the cast. If they will make her be very expressive and perhaps "moe" to develop on her character from Captain Rainbow, there's no denying that her charm ´would win plenty of hearts from the audience.

5. How visually different is the character in terms of body shape and looks?

Plenty. Her being a fairy with somewhat super-deformed proportions yet bishounen look is enough to make her look different even if paired with the Mushroom Princesses. I agree on her regular character proportions from her VS Portrait the go for her design in Smash.

6. Does it fit the character well enough?

Yes. All mechanics and inspirations for her playstyle along with her fairy motive would be a marvelous character put together to be in Smash, which would also do justice to her and her series in their own right.

Uniqueness Rating: S

Her zoning sapper style could easily rival Lucario and Rosalina as a character with a mechanic that is part of them and makes them stand out and be memorable to all kinds of players. Along with this is her cute charm and flower magic that coat well on her playstyle design and make her very memorable fighter.

Lastly, Lip Stick would make her also more easier to meet on to the audience play Smash Bros and find out that she's the original owner, which would get us to the full circle about referencing to Panel De Pon/Puzzle Leagye-series, and bringing them as one of the mainstay puzzle franchise representative for Super Smash Bros.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Duck Hunt Dog's playstyle should define annoying at it's fullest, his clay frisbee and his NES Zapper should have instant priority so it can bug the opponent.
I'd give him a A!

As for Lip, thanks to these analyses, I think I'll give her a S too.

 

[FirstBlade]

Never been in this thread but I got tagged and since it's Lip, don't mind.

Lip

1. How many diverse options does this character have?

Lip would be a nightmare to those who rush down on beating their opponents and are easy to drive to a corner: with quirky playstyle of a poisonous "sapper", she emphasizes on making opponent grow damage by her flower magic while zoning and using tactics in order to round out her weaknesses being one of the most lightweight characters in the game with low KO power.

Elaborating also is her being flower fairy, which lends her to use magic powers with a flowery plant-life motive and so on. Combined with her baton, this could give her ranger on her attacks, which would strengthen her zoning game. Along with this would be her being very graceful fighter on air and have multiple jumps (imagined as "skips" on the air).

2. Is their moves or abilities diverse from the rest of the Smash cast?

Absolutely. She can derive a lot from her game series, her baton and her flower fairy motive, something that not other characters have:

- Firstly, her wand has been a mainstay item in the series until now, leaving a flower when whacked an opponent with. This makes them get their damage sapped up, which can be accumulated further by more blows.
This reflects upon Panel De Pon's nature of racking chains in sequence to grow bigger garbage blocks to bury your opponent's block stack down. Showcased in this video.


For this reason, we could expect and evolved playstyle based on this: she would primarily be a "sapper" in her moves, with her flower opening and closing to indicate which attacks make the magical spores be emitted. A lot of Lip's attacks would have low knockback and damage, but would be able to come quite quickly enough to build on each hit. Due this, her damage potential would be obscenely huge - if not the biggest when compared to rest of the fighters. Lip though has low KO-power, which further emphasizes on her playing carefully with the opponent and making him suffer before being ripe for KO.
Most of the time this would play out as building the damage quickly to huge heights and then kill off her enemy with a strong attack, while keeping them at bay to ensure not getting damaged on.

- Panel De Pon has certain mechanics that can be taken from her game to give her nifty tools to enhance her zoning game and punishing opponents from approaching her.

These include the cursor for swapping opponents' positions instead of panels and using her garbage blocks to punish airborn opponents with a meteor smash or give some space if summoned on the ground. This could give her an incredible zoning and edgeguarding game and access certain unique tactics. FirstBlade had already elaborated on these but a lot seem taken from my age-old moveset for Lip.


- Lip being a flower fairy, it can be expected that plenty of her attack motives derive these themes, being in form of plants, flowers, petals and so on. There's also some of her pet companions she can use from her games (like Watabou) for recovery. In anycase, her baton and magic powers might give her more fitting feel of being a zoner with some trickstery mechanics if paired with her weight. (Perhaps could become the most light-weight character after Jigglypuff.)

- Rainbows are known to be Lip's favourite things, played right from on them being her means of transport in Panel De Pon and her creating one to spread her flower magic on Mimin Island back in Captain Rainbow.


3. Has the concept of the character been done before?

Nope. Her stick seems to be source of this, of course, but it would then be just ascended to an actual playstyle. Olimar has Pikmin Throw which more or less functions similarly.

4. Does the character's abilities and moves provide enough to be entertaining?

Of course! With a quirky yet deep playstyle with cute fairy magic visuals befitting of her, she would appear very appealing and stand out plenty from rest of the cast. If they will make her be very expressive and perhaps "moe" to develop on her character from Captain Rainbow, she would charm plenty of hearts from the audience.

5. How visually different is the character in terms of body shape and looks?

Plenty. Her being a fairy with somewhat super-deformed proportions yet bishounen look is enough to make her look different even if paired with the Mushroom Princesses. I agree on her regular character proportions from her VS Portrait the go for her design in Smash.

6. Does it fit the character well enough?

Yes. All mechanics and inspirations for her playstyle along with her fairy motive would be a marvelous character put together to be in Smash, which would also do justice to her and her series in their own right.

Uniqueness Rating: S

Her zoning sapper style could easily rival Lucario and Rosalina as a character with a mechanic that is part of them and makes them stand out and be memorable to all kinds of players. Along with this is her cute charm and flower magic that coat well on her playstyle design and make her very memorable fighter.

Aha! I couldn't remember where I had seen the swapping move but it must have been your moveset. I should probably go edit my analysis to give credit.

 

[BKupa666]

Not to retroactively contest the retro characters' placements (Muddy Mole being above K. Roodley is kind of a joke), but I'd like to point out that one of the ideas suggested for Bubbles, the endless unstoppable movement, cannot feasibly function in-game the way it does in Clu Clu Land. If Bubbles was unable to stop in Smash Bros., any character could stand in front of her and jab, and she'd be infinited by every character, bar none. She does have other potential, but that mechanic could not work without major adjustments. Just pointing that out for future reference.

 

[ToothiestAura]

From what I've seen here and their respective topics, I'll rate as follows:

Lip: S Tier
Lip has so much potential for uniqueness. Her item, Lip's Stick, is one of the more unique items as it is. This weapon could make her A moves a bit exciting, possibly "flowering" an opponent if you sweet spot it (stealing that idea from Project M Ivysaur). I think Young Horsetail's moveset is the best example of what she can do: the switch-move is a great idea, "seeding" opponents and "blooming" them with basic moves, summoning garbage blocks and a puzzle-based FS. This is a character I seriously think has a lot of potential, I even think she may be the best choice for retro representation.

Duck Hunt Dog: A Tier
While I'm not on board with this particular retro, he would be unique. The ideas I've heard for him generally involve the Hunter attacking from off-screen which leads to a few options: 1). The Hunter attacking as a special that gives really good coverage or 2). The Hunter killing ducks and the dog using them for his moves (while this idea is sick, stupid and beyond unlikely, it would be fairly unique). This would have the number of ducks affects the power and effects of his moves. It would be a PETA nightmare, though.

@ BKupa666
I think Muddy's placement makes sense, having a character that can burrow into the stage is more unique than a character like Ridley who would be an aerial based heavyweight (which is unique, just not a new idea) or K. Rool who has the potential to be a defensive/projectile-based heavyweight (which, again, would be unique but not an entirely new concept). Nevertheless, it's opinion, so voting is supposed to help us reach a more reasonable consensus.
As for Bubbles, it probably isn't feasible. I think the idea was more along the lines of Bubbles' movement damaging others, and that damage increasing as she keeps moving. And it's not like she couldn't attack or shield/dodge.

 

[FirstBlade]

Not to retroactively contest the retro characters' placements (Muddy Mole being above K. Roodley is kind of a joke), but I'd like to point out that one of the ideas suggested for Bubbles, the endless unstoppable movement, cannot feasibly function in-game the way it does in Clu Clu Land. If Bubbles was unable to stop in Smash Bros., any character could stand in front of her and jab, and she'd be infinited by every character, bar none. She does have other potential, but that mechanic could not work without major adjustments. Just pointing that out for future reference.

Yeah um....nobody suggested completely endless movement....not sure what you read. Her gameplay is supposed to evoke the feeling of endless movement, which is a completely different thing (think Sonic).
I had suggested a slide that occurs when moving but it doesn't go on forever, she still comes to a stop (which varies, think "walking vs. running"). I also pitched that she can slow or completely stop her excess slide by shielding and the like. Also, using the special move that pulls out her poles would stop her in her tracks as well (The pole stays planted in place as she spins). The goal of her gameplay would be to keep her moving though. Also, no offense but I fail to see why someone couldn't simply jump out of the way, hit the control stick in the other direction or you know simply dodge to avoid such a jab. Just sayin.

As for Muddy...I suggest you read some of the analyses to get a view of what he can bring. Just pointing it out... there is currently no trapper in Smash.

 

[BKupa666]

Must have misread parts of the Bubbles bit, then. But, if endless movement were actually used, the Bubbles player would be in hitstun while being jabbed, and thus, unless she had unusually good DI, would be unable to react defensively, especially if turning around could only be accomplished by the pole special.

Muddy would have his digging as a single original move, which is unique, but I don't know that it compares to the likes of K. Roodley, whose entire movesets could be unique on a similar level. To each his or her own, of course. If Muddy could actually terraform and create pits and slopes in the stage, that would definitely set him above them, but what's being proposed now sounds basically like a giant pitfall item.

 

[Arcadenik]

What can the Duck Hunt Dog do?

First off, he is a hunting dog... and what does a hunting dog do? There are several things hunting dogs were trained to do... they locate game and point them out for the hunter... they flush game out of its hiding place when the hunter commands them to... they retrieve shot game to the hunter.

Now, what did the Duck Hunt Dog do in the classic NES shoot'em up? See for yourself...

He smelled the ground and located the ducks... he jumped in the grass to flush them out... he retrieved the ducks. He is based on several types of gun dogs such as retrievers, setters, and spaniels.

I see that the movesets for Rosalina & Luma and Little Mac involve something unique to make them stand out... Rosalina with summoning Lumas and using gravity effects... Little Mac with building up the meter before he can one-hit KO opponents. Well, I do think that the Duck Hunt Dog has something that can help him stand out...

Watch the video again... see that? The hunter shoots the ducks! That one is gonna be the neutral B move... he does his hunting dog duties like pointing the prey (the opponents) for the hunter to shoot... he flushes ducks out so the hunter can shoot them down... how does that even work, you might ask. Well, when you press the B button, tall grass inexplicably grows quickly behind the Duck Hunt Dog and he jumps in the grass... then he flushes out a duck... from there on, you assume control of the flying duck with the control stick (or circle pad on 3DS)... this one is based on how you would control ducks if you plugged the NES controller in the 2P slot... watch the video...

Now that you got the idea (hopefully)... while you are controlling the duck with the control stick (or circle pad on 3DS), you have five seconds to fly the duck to the opponent before the duck flies away and the Duck Hunt Dog comes out of the grass, laughing at you, and you assume control of the Duck Hunt Dog again as the grass disappears in a poof of smoke... so, when you are controlling the duck, you must get it close to the opponent before you press the B button again for the hunter to shoot at the duck... the opponent would be harmed by gunfire explosion... see the gunfire explosion on the Duck Hunt NES cover?

Of course it won't be pixelated but you get the idea... when the duck is shot, it falls straight down like in the NES game... now, if you managed to get the duck to overlap with the opponent's body and timed your shot, well, it would be an one-hit KO, especially at high damage percentages. If the duck overlaps with the opponent's head, it would be a headshot and results in a Meteor Smash and the opponent drops like a duck.

Wait, there's more... watch this video...

The hunter shoots the clay pigeons (frisbees) too. This one is gonna be the Side+B move. How would this one work? Well, the Duck Hunt Dog could pull one out of hammerspace and throws it. The controls are very similar to Link's boomerang throw... except you need to press the B button again after throwing the clay pigeon for the hunter to shoot the clay pigeon. So, even if the clay pigeon hits the opponent, that opponent gets minimal damage with no knockback... just like Fox's neutral B move... but if you press the B button when that clay pigeon is very close to the opponent, the hunter shoots at the clay pigeon, it explodes into shrapnel and and the opponent gets major damage and gets knocked back... so if you time your shot, you could potentially score an one-hit KO when the opponent already has a high damage percentage.

The Duck Hunt Dog sounds potentially overpowered with one-hit KO projectiles... good thing there is a game mechanic that prevents players from spamming neutral B and Side+B moves... see the ammo in the bottom left side in both videos? The hunter can only have three bullets per round in the NES game... but in Smash, after using up three bullets, the hunter takes ten seconds to reload the NES Zapper... so the Duck Hunt Dog player needs to be conservative with the ammo (at least when it comes to special moves).

One of the most-remembered things about the Duck Hunt Dog is his trolling laughter. Many gamers of the 1980's wanted to shoot that dog for laughing at their failures... so the Duck Hunt Dog's Down+B move is going to be about that. When the player inputs Down+B, the Duck Hunt Dog looks at the screen and laughs at the hunter... only to be shot at. This deals 20% damage to the Duck Hunt Dog... however, if the Duck Hunt Dog's body is overlapping with the opponent's body... well, it is gonna be like Jigglypuff's Rest move... with the hunter shooting at the opponent instead of the Duck Hunt Dog. If this was done to the opponent when the damage percentage is high, well, it is another one-hit KO move. Again, I stress that this move should not be spammed because you are shooting at the Duck Hunt Dog... therefore, the player cannot afford to miss the opponent and accidently one-hit KO the Duck Hunt Dog.

So, with the emphasis of one-hit KO projectiles and limited ammo, the Duck Hunt Dog is about shooting with precise timing and diligent patience... just like real life hunting... except the hunter is using the NES Zapper the whole time!

As for the Up+B recovery, the Duck Hunt Dog pulls out two ducks from hammerspace and starts flying around. He flies faster and farther with two ducks than he would with one duck... the controls are like Pit's Up+B recovery.

For the Duck Hunt Dog's normal moves, well, he could just pull out ducks from hammerspace and use them as bludgeoning and throwing weapons. After hitting the opponent, the duck flies away... and it pecks opponents on its way out. His aerial down+A move could have the Duck Hunt Dog throwing a duck straight down... and it is spiraling on its way down, like a drill...

Remember that one of the hunting dog duties is pointing at game so the hunter can see where the hunting dog is pointing at and shoot there... since the Duck Hunt Dog is a cartoon dog, he could point fingers at different directions, telling the hunter where to shoot at... so when the Duck Hunt Dog points fingers at the opponent, the hunter shoots at the space just beyond the Duck Hunt Dog's fingertips... these moves don't use up ammo like the special moves and they don't one-hit KO opponents either.

So... basically, the Duck Hunt Dog fights by constantly breaking the fourth wall by having the person playing Duck Hunt (the hunter) do all the shooting with the NES Zapper. This is highlighted in the Duck Hunt Dog's Final Smash where he jumps in the grass as dozens of ducks fly out of the grass... and the NES Zapper appears in front of the stage, complete with a crosshair. You control the crosshair and you can press the B button to shoot. You get three bullets but each bullet is a guaranteed KO regardless of damage percentage... but you need to aim carefully to shoot at the opponents and not at the ducks. It would be like this...

In my opinion, I think the Duck Hunt Dog is probably suited for advanced players who appreciate the challenge of precise timing and diligent patience because scoring an one-hit KO successfully can be very satisfying... and of course for beginner players who are too scared to get close so they just camp. It is fitting as "camping" originally came from the first-person shooter game genre... and Duck Hunt is a first-person shooter game.

 

[Cpt.]

Lip sounds crazy strong and different. I'm going to agree with the S Tier ratings.

 

[BridgesWithTurtles]

I always envisioned DHD as a puppet fighter, sending out ducks to attack, then being able to shoot them with a Zapper to deal damage. Pretty unique. But since Rosalina already covers this genre, he wouldn't be as unique in comparison. Still, I'd give him at least a B ranking, since it's not like puppet fighters have been done to death, and he could still differentiate himself from Rosalina.

Lip is a definite S-tier. Coming from a puzzle series, she'd be very unorthodox as a fighting game character, and in a good way.

 

[Shorts]

Duck Hunt Dog - C Tier
Besides off screen attacks, I don't see much he could do interesting wise.

Lip - B Tier
Well, I think dropping puzzles would be an interesting idea, but nothing too crazy.

 

[Arcadenik]

Duck Hunt Dog - C Tier
Besides off screen attacks, I don't see much he could do interesting wise.

Lip - B Tier
Well, I think dropping puzzles would be an interesting idea, but nothing too crazy.

All Little Mac does is punch... and yet he got a pretty damn interesting playstyle consisting entirely of punches.

It is not just that offscreen attacks are all the Duck Hunt Dog can do... it is how they are used... and how it influences what kind of playstyle the Duck Hunt Dog could have. Like I explained before, the Duck Hunt Dog's moveset that I came up with would give it a camping playstyle... where the player needs to find a safe place away from other opponents and stage hazards in order to quickly control ducks and clay pigeons and time the potential one-hit KO shots.

 

[Cpt.]

I really want to rate Duck Hunt Dog, but something tells me that a Dog who is known for killing ducks and uses a gun won't be in the game. Unless they make it so he doesn't kill or fight with the ducks in smash......idk maybe he can use a fake gun.

Picture from the DHD page. I just thought the moveset looked good except the one where he has the duck by the neck....

 

[Arcadenik]

The NES Zapper is a fake gun...

 

[Cpt.]

The NES Zapper is a fake gun...

Ah alright good to know. I kinda assumed it was, but for some reason it didn't seem like it.

With that being said, DHD looks pretty interesting. Though I imagine the disk to be something like Links boomerang, he doesn't have that anymore. Some of the 4th wall breaking moves mentioned on the thread seemed a little odd, but hey if they do implement something like that I can see DHD being A Tier.

 

[Raetah]

Hmm....I mean Luigi has

Fireball
Green Missile
Super Jump Punch (with OTK)
Spin
Negative Zone

That is 2 (ish) that he shares with Mario

Wolf has

Blastor
Wolf Flash (angled)
Fire Wolf
Reflector
Landmaster

That is 4 (ish) that he shares with Fox

Both characters have altered attributes to their "originals"

You are counting only specials, Luigi have more similitudes to Mario than Wolf to Fox.

 

[Shorts]

So everyone is going to be A tier?

 

[Louie G.]

So everyone is going to be A tier?

Well Takamaru, Urban Champ, Daitoryo, Dixie Kong, Cranky Kong, and Diskun were not.
So nope.
Although I'm going by what the majority thinks. We haven't done too many cloney characters yet, or anyone truly unoriginal except a few.
Once we get to say, Fire Emblem, the B and C tiers will fill up quickly.

 

[CatRaccoonBL]

So everyone is going to be A tier?

Well, no...

Lip is going to be S tier.

 

[BluePikmin11]

So everyone is going to be A tier?

Were doing ratings realistically and putting out every source the character has and check whether it's enough.
If everyone was A tier, that would be a bunch of bias.

 

[Cpt.]

So everyone is going to be A tier?

Ummm. No? ... I've been doing realistic ratings this whole time -_- (and a lot of other people have as well).

 

[Raetah]

Fire Emblem should probably get it's own week, there are a lot of options. RPG is a bit too broad a term in my opinion, considering it encompasses all these games that all fairly different.

By the way it is clear that i want an excuse to talk of Isaac here, then i thinked of Shulk being "the rival of Isaac" in Smashboards... I know that Fire Emblem have a lot of options BUT talking about all those options it is fairly unnecessary since i see Fire Emblem with 3 characters in the best situation... Marth confirmed, the possibility of other FE veteran returning Ike or Roy. And in newcomers we are going to get one character from the recent game Awakening. So at the end: *Probably: Chrom, Lucina, Robin. *Possible but unlikely: Lyn, Medeus. *Are they going to appear in the game in ANY form?: Anna, Tiki, Grima.
At the end we can even use an entire Month for Fire Emblem, but it would be pointless. Well after all, from all those retro characters that are being valorated now, i only see two of them with a considerable possibilty to be playable, Takamaru and Muddy Mole.

Alrighty then, but I think Eevee is advocated more than Mew.
I totally recommend Eevee.

Im not agree. We already have enough of 1st generation and practically nothing of newer generations. Also Eevee by itself have not much, unless you consider Eevee evolutions in the moveset, but that wouldnt make much sense at all...
Eevee is not that popular anyway, well... Eevee is popular but most of the People have a favourite evolution of Eevee and they vote for his favourite Evolution, not for Eevee.

 

[ToothiestAura]

By the way it is clear that i want an excuse to talk of Isaac here, then i thinked of Shulk being "the rival of Isaac" in Smashboards... I know that Fire Emblem have a lot of options BUT talking about all those options it is fairly unnecessary since i see Fire Emblem with 3 characters in the best situation... Marth confirmed, the possibility of other FE veteran returning Ike or Roy. And in newcomers we are going to get one character from the recent game Awakening. So at the end: *Probably: Chrom, Lucina, Robin. *Possible but unlikely: Lyn, Medeus. *Are they going to appear in the game in ANY form?: Anna, Tiki, Grima.

Eh. We talked about plenty of character that aren't likely so far, I mean Diskun? Really? Covering the bases in terms of those FE characters with popularity and importance to the series would mean discussing: Chrom, Robin, Lucina, Lyn, Anna, and Tiki. That's 6. And since there are also a lot of differing combos being presented (such as Chrom & Robin, or Chorm & Lucina) I also suggest possibly doing a day where we just discuss the concept of an FE duo. Of course, I suggested this before we started doing two characters a day. So, taking 3-4 days for Fire Emblem seems fair (Chrom and Lucina for day one, Robin and Lyn for day two, Anna and Tiki for day three, and the possibility of a duo discussion on Day 4). I said this not thinking FE would get two newcomers, just that there is a large range of options for the one newcomer spot FE likely will get.

 

[LipFlare]

Hello everyone!

Talk about Lip! Well what should I say ,what hasn't been previously said? Her potential is almost limitless ,as proven from [FirstBlade] and [Young Horsetail] ,and her suggested movesets and... my imaginings ,which offer uniqueness at its finest^^ ( sample: piranha plants) But I digress off the topic.

Lip = cute = potential = puzzlegamecharacter=Retrocharacter=uniqueness
If this mathematical highly fitting formula *grin* is been added to Smash Bros. it will upgraded ,for sure!

Lip for Smash Bros. 4 because even the most beautiful flowers have thorns and blooms even more into the shine of the battle!

Lip S!

Now let's talk about dogs... WAIT! That seems familiar! That wouldn't be the first time that a fairy was replaced by a dog (Panel de Pon ->Tetris Attack) ! Oh my... my heart ,my head ... must prevent unconsciousness! Sorry about that but I have to end here *tumble*

*With my last breath* Good night everyone!

LipFlare

P.S. Please forgive me if there is something wrong with the grammar or if I did something wrong here.

 

[Raetah]

Honestly i dont want to see another character like Ice Climbers (character composed by two), Rosalina and Luma are different.

And about Lip, yeah it seems to be unique. But i dont think that Sakurai would pick her. She is cute and all, but Sakurai stated that he was loking for a retro character to revive the serie of the character as well...

 

[BluePikmin11]

Honestly i dont want to see another character like Ice Climbers (character composed by two), Rosalina and Luma are different.

And about Lip, yeah it seems to be unique. But i dont think that Sakurai would pick her. She is cute and all, but Sakurai stated that he was loking for a retro character to revive the serie of the character as well...

Although I like Lip, Panel de Pon has been revived a couple of times (the most recent one being released in 2009). So I don't think Lip will be chosen despite how unique she could be, I would think she's somewhat in a middle position with characters like Isaac and Saki. They'll probably go for a different franchise that really is dead in the water with no new games like Kaeru no Tame ni wa Naru or Nazo No Muramase Jou. (No that one Nintendoland minigame doesn't count)

But were kinda getting off-topic, are we going to end the day soon.