The Ultimate Smash Bros Canon Battle: Day 14: X vs Iggy

[Swamp Sensei]

If this was another Zelda I could give it to her easily...

But OoT Zelda doesn't do any combat. We know she has magic, but the only magic we see her use in that game is... turning into Sheik and holding Ganon down.

Meanwhile Ludwig has a variety of tools and weapons...

This is a hard one.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

If this was another Zelda I could give it to her easily...

But OoT Zelda doesn't do any combat. We know she has magic, but the only magic we see her use in that game is... turning into Sheik and holding Ganon down.

Meanwhile Ludwig has a variety of tools and weapons...

This is a hard one.

I still think OoT Zelda has this in the bag. I'm sure her Shiek disguise wasn't just all for show as she could jump off of high places without getting harmed and disappear without a trace. I believe Impa taught her the art of combat of the Sheikah but we never get to see Zelda fight as Shiek in Oot because her role is to help Link get into the Temples and break the curses. Plus, it wouldn't be like she could do that much against Ganondorf with that combat anyway since in canon the Master Sword and the Gold Arrows are the only weapons that can harm him.

 

[Schnee117]

Us never getting to see OoT Zelda fight as Sheik (or even at all) is the problem. We can't gauge what she does if she doesn't actually do anything.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Us never getting to see OoT Zelda fight as Sheik (or even at all) is the problem. We can't gauge what she does if she doesn't actually do anything.

Heck, we could argue OoT Zelda is actually one of the weaker ones in the series considering the moment Ganondorf knew Sheik was Zelda, he captured her.

 

[NintenRob]

Sorry for the long day, life and all.

Ludwig wins with ease

Today is Pichu vs Incineroar. I'm not sure a poll is even worth it but here it is.

https://www.strawpoll.me/20248626

 

[Wunderwaft]

It's a good thing this is a battle between canon strengths and not how strong they are in Smash.

But seriously we're comparing a first stage Pokemon with a third stage Pokemon. Incineroar easily triumphs over Pichu in pretty much everything.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Incineroar wins with ease.

 

[Schnee117]

Nothing to say for this one really
Incineroar takes it

 

[NintenRob]

Day over

Not much discussion, obviously Pichu wins by paralyzing Incineroar and speed blitzing the slow ass cat man

I wish. Incineroar wins


Today is Proto Man vs Squirtle. I don't know much about Proto Man, so even if this is one sided, I'd still like to see some talk of feats.

https://www.strawpoll.me/20256038

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Proto Man can do pretty much everything Mega Man can do. He's just more fragile.

Proto Man wins.

 

[Arthur97]

Wait...what? Why?

Either way, pretty much anything Mega Man can do, it seems Proto Man can do. Mega Man's beat him in fights, but he seems to have some serious buster output. He's also got a shield. Main disadvantages would be a faulty power core (we don't know if that was ever fixed I don't think) and a more limited line up of special weapons compared to his younger "brother." That said, he should be the little water turtle without much issue.

Now, why is he here?

 

[NintenRob]

Wait...what? Why?

Either way, pretty much anything Mega Man can do, it seems Proto Man can do. Mega Man's beat him in fights, but he seems to have some serious buster output. He's also got a shield. Main disadvantages would be a faulty power core (we don't know if that was ever fixed I don't think) and a more limited line up of special weapons compared to his younger "brother." That said, he should be the little water turtle without much issue.

Now, why is he here?

I included many Mii costume characters (since you can play as them in a sense) to bring the total to 128 participant, which is ideal for a tourney set up.

 

[OnyanRings]

That's one funky matchup you got there.

Proto Man stomps this, i really don't see what Squirtle could do against him.

 

[Schnee117]

Proto stomps this.
He can do almost anything Mega can and has a shield to offset his lesser defence.

 

[PeridotGX]

I was trying to follow this on Gamefaqs, but it's so much easier here.

Proto Man stomps, he just has a much more varied skillset.

 

[Blutrausch]

These threads are fun, but pointless. People in general lack a certain methodology that is consistent to all characters. Certain methods, such as pixel scaling aren't reliable in fictitious settings, even if such settings are live-action shows or films. Numbers in-game also don't provide accuracy or precision. Still, I would have given my input on the Pit vs. Young Link and Samus vs. Diddy Kong matches. Too bad I missed out. I'll keep an eye out.

 

[NintenRob]

Day over

https://challonge.com/gu0py1ng

Proto Man wins, He was described as being essentially Mega Man but with a shield no compensate for weaker defense. Poor Squirtle didn't really stand a chance.

Today will certainly be an interesting one. Richter vs Ray Mk III. I don't know much about these two besides what's seen in Smash. Should be fascinating to learn how powerful these two are.

https://www.strawpoll.me/20274323

 

[Blutrausch]

I've played Custom Robo. My brother owns the game. It's been years, but here's Ray Mk III in action. This should help those who haven't played the game. On the Robopedia site, it says that Ray Mk III's air dash speed is 384 hm/s. Looking this up, "hm" appears to mean "hectometers". In other words, 384 hectometers per second is 38,400 meters per second, or 111.95 times the speed of sound. Uh, that's ridiculously fast.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Ah this one is a tad tricky.

Richter can dodge electric bolts from The Creature, Shaft (lol) and Dracula's second form, meaning he could be seen as faster than lightning.

Not only that, but Richter has power holy magic that I don't think Ray has a counter to.

I'd say Ray is armored enough to tank any weapon that isn't Vampire Killer (even then, he could take a few hits), but he's completely exposed to magic.

That said, Richter isn't that durable, so I could see Ray overpower him if he gets the first hit.

 

[Wunderwaft]

Hmmm. Richter has taken down various demons and even the dark lord Dracula himself, he's pretty formidable and strong. I don't know much about Ray so I can't comment about him. But I will say this, Richter is capable of stopping time, albeit for 5 seconds, thanks to the power of the stopwatch.

 

[Blutrausch]

Swamp Sensei Let's not assume that electrical attacks equate to the speed of lightning. It is difficult, if not impossible to determine how fast electrical attacks are. It also depends on how you define "electricity", which isn't defined very well.

Wunderwaft Stopwatch can stop certain enemies. In other Castlevania games, certain powerful enemies are slowed down, but not halted.

Be sure to watch the video I linked if you two haven't. It's pretty cool, at least to me.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Let's not assume that electrical attacks equate to the speed of lightning. It is difficult, if not impossible to determine how fast electrical attacks are. It also depends on how you define "electricity", which isn't defined very well.

I mean. Electricity in general is fast.

Even in electrical cords for house hold items, the electricity within travels at the speed of light or 300 million meters per second.

https://www.vivintsolar.com/blog/how-fast-does-electricity-travel

You can argue that the attack is magical and thus acts differently, but in the real world there is no such thing as slow electricity.


Since you are a Custom Robo expert, are there electrical attacks that Ray can dodge?

 

[NintenRob]

I try to say away of talk of feats but I want to add something.

When comes to talk of dodging lightning, there's a difference between seeing the lightning coming and reacting specifically to it. And predicting where it will come from and getting out of the way.


For example. Mario and Luigi dodge lightning in Superstar Saga, but they are not moving fast than light. They just know when to get out of the way based on Cacklettas action.

 

[Blutrausch]

I mean. Electricity in general is fast.

Even in electrical cords for house hold items, the electricity within travels at the speed of light or 300 million meters per second.

https://www.vivintsolar.com/blog/how-fast-does-electricity-travel

You can argue that the attack is magical and thus acts differently, but in the real world there is no such thing as slow electricity.


Since you are a Custom Robo expert, are there electrical attacks that Ray can dodge?

Electricity is quite slow, actually. You're confusing the electromagnetic propagation with drift velocity, which moves at a snail's pace. I didn't watch the entire video, but I saw Shaft launch electric spheres, which would be more akin to ball lightning, another slow-moving object.

You mention that I could contend that the electric attacks are magical, and thus, different, but then you mention that electricity is fast in reality. Well, magic doesn't exist in reality, so just how far are you willing to step into reality over fiction? This sounds like a form of selection bias.

I'm no expert regarding Custom Robo. It was for the GameCube. That means it's been close to 20 years since I've played. I could see if there are electrical attacks in the series, but if we went with the notion that the firearms in the game are faster than sound, that gives Ray Mk III an advantage in reaction time. The sound effects of the firearm used by one of the robos sounds like it was supposed to be a shotgun, and Ray dodged it point-blank.

 

[Wunderwaft]

I watched the intro video for custom robo and tbh I don't see Ray MK3 beating Richter if that's the best he has. Richter is specialized in holy magic, something that I don't think Ray has shown any resistance to. Richter is capable of using Thousand Edge, a technique where he throws 1000 blades in the span of ten seconds. He can use Agunea which discharges a bolt of lightning on an enemy. And even if Stopwatch slows down time instead of outright stopping it, that should still give Richter the edge when it comes to landing a finishing blow.

 

[Schnee117]

Castlevania is a very surprisingly powerful universe when you actually get into it.
Dracula in particular is insanely strong and he taps directly into Chaos (The Source of All Evil) itself for power.

This is Richter's battle with him in the PSP remake
Belmonts and their allies aren't to be underestimated

 

[Blutrausch]

I watched the intro video for custom robo and tbh I don't see Ray MK3 beating Richter if that's the best he has. Richter is specialized in holy magic, something that I don't think Ray has shown any resistance to. Richter is capable of using Thousand Edge, a technique where he throws 1000 blades in the span of ten seconds. He can use Agunea which discharges a bolt of lightning on an enemy. And even if Stopwatch slows down time instead of outright stopping it, that should still give Richter the edge when it comes to landing a finishing blow.

I fail to see why holiness is relevant. Ray isn't evil incarnate. I'll need evidence that the name of 1,000 blades is more than a hyperbolic name for the attack. What does Agnea look like when Richter performs it? If it's anything like Alucard's from SotN, then I don't know how reliable that'll be. I recall the range being short, but it's been years since I've played SotN.

Stopwatch may be Richter's best bet, if not Hydro Storm. The question is how far does it go? Is it local, or global? And I don't recall Richter being capable of having all these abilities at once, whereas a character like Alucard's has a wide range of options to choose from. Aside from this limitation, Richter isn't exactly fast, nor could he maintain flight like Ray.

 

[Wunderwaft]

I fail to see why holiness is relevant. Ray isn't evil incarnate. I'll need evidence that the name of 1,000 blades is more than a hyperbolic name for the attack. What does Agnes look like when Richter performs it? If it's anything like Alucard's from SotN, then I don't know how reliable that'll be. I recall the range being short, but it's been years since I've played SotN.

Stopwatch may be Richter's best bet, if not Hydro Storm. The question is how far does it go? Is it local, or global? And I don't recall Richter being capable of having all these abilities at once, whereas a character like Alucard's has a wide range of options to choose from. Aside from this limitation, Richter isn't exactly fast, nor could he maintain flight like Ray.

My point about magic was more so that Ray hasn't shown capabilities of defending against Magic so something like Hydro Storm or Grand Cross could harm him since they're magical in nature. I can't seem to find a quote that details the number of knives thrown besides the title itself, huh, I could've swore I read somewhere that the number was 1000 blades thrown.

Regardless, Agunea looks something like this, which is similair to Alucard's

As for the limitation of the weapons, it's more of a gameplay mechanic and not an actual limitation of the characters' canon strength. Just look at Richter's boss fight in Portrait of Ruin where he spams his multitude of weapons and even breaks them and uses them again.

 

[Blutrausch]

My point about magic was more so that Ray hasn't shown capabilities of defending against Magic so something like Hydro Storm or Grand Cross could harm him since they're magical in nature. I can't seem to find a quote that details the number of knives thrown besides the title itself, huh, I could've swore I read somewhere that the number was 1000 blades thrown.

Regardless, Agunea looks something like this, which is similair to Alucard's

As for the limitation of the weapons, it's more of a gameplay mechanic and not an actual limitation of the characters' canon strength. Just look at Richter's boss fight in Portrait of Ruin where he spams his multitude of weapons and even breaks them and uses them again.

I see. I would have agreed that Richter's weapons would, or should deal damage to Ray. I wasn't aware of Richter being in PoR. I never finished the game. I got stuck somewhere, but I enjoyed the game. My brother owns it. He's more of a Castlevania player, whereas I'm more of a Metroid player. I thought Richter was limited because the use of magic abilities has often been limited up until post-SotN. As for Agunea, I'd actually be fine assuming such attack travels at the speed of lightning, given its appearance closely resembling the real thing. I just don't know how fast that beam is at the beginning.

I think Ray has the advantage in speed and range, and with his ability to fly and stay out of harms way, this could give Richter trouble. Is options that cover a wider range may be useful, but I don't know how far those effects go.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Is the thread okay?

I guess I'll give it to Richter if I had to choose one, but I'm still unsure.

 

[NintenRob]

Is the thread okay?

I guess I'll give it to Richter if I had to choose one, but I'm still unsure.

Sorry. Life has been more than a little stressful lately and viewer interest has been pretty low. I only got one comment on gamefaqs last time.

Regardless day is over. I think arguments in Richter's favour were slightly better, and the poll also had Richter as victor. Ray Mk III did win the gamefaqs vote on virtue of being the only comment (I'm not even sure on the accuracy of said comment, but it had no counterargument so whatever)


Today is Iggy the Koopaling vs Mega Man X! Let me know who you think wins.


https://www.strawpoll.me/20310335

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Mega Man X.

Iggy dies.

Done.

 

[Schnee117]

Remember how Mega Man is really stupidly strong?
X is better than him.

 

[Wunderwaft]

Yeah there is no conceivable way that X is losing to Iggy of all characters. He's robot jesus for a reason.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

X is gonna get pretty high up in the tournament, but I can see a few road blocks getting in the way.

Iggy is not one of those roadblocks.

Iggy's a Koopaling sure, and he's good at magic, but the Koopalings are fairly weak all things considered. Jr. is significantly stronger and he's just a child.

 

[KingHippo]

If X can deal with Sigma time and time again, he can take out one little turtle.

 

[Just a random scrub]

Jr. is significantly stronger and he's just a child.

Eh, I'd say Ludwig is more comptent (at least if we factor out Jr's Shadow brush and SMG2 mechs).

That being said, X wins. He just does.

 

[chikin]

Sucks that this thread is dead.

 

[NintenRob]

Sucks that this thread is dead.

Sorry. My life got way too hectic, and turnout here was way too low for it to be worth it.