The Trend Begins Now Pick a Side, Heroes or Villains?

[Captain Shades]

So a big theme that many have picked up on with this Smash would be the theme of Heroes vs Villains, so the question is, which do you choose? I’d like to see the support for both sides, but I feel that I need to create a set list in order to figure out how this will work out.

I’ll be selecting villains based on the reactions in my villains thread (Check out here) in which if they were a villain or primarily known as one, then they will be in this list, so here are your options going down by series.

Heroes








ultchrom:























Villains








:ultrobin




Leave your team and why in the comments below, and let the war between heroes and villains begin.
(Thread will be updated as new stock icons come in)

 

[Luigifan18]

I side with the Heroes, as always.

 

[Deleted member]

Correct me if im wrong but shoudn't Bayo be in the villians category? She kills angels.

I side with the heroes

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Correct me if im wrong but shoudn't Bayo be in the villians category? She kills angels.

I side with the heroes

Bayo is an anti-hero at worst and a hero at best (angles aren’t really good in her world, especially cause she’s a witch)...nearly everyone from heaven and hell wants her and Jeanne dead

 

[Deleted member]

Bayo is an anti-hero at worst and a hero at best (angles aren’t really good in her world, especially cause she’s a witch)...nearly everyone from heaven and hell wants her and Jeanne dead

Ok, thanks for clarifying. Ive never played the Bayonetta series so i was unsure.

 

[Fell God]

Only non villainous character that I'll be playing is Chrom, the bad guys can count on me. I'll turn Ultimate into the town of Salem in 1692 by the time I'm done

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Ok, thanks for clarifying. Ive never played the Bayonetta series so i was unsure.

No problems. Besides, even if she was a villain we would have nothing to worry about...if you were to choose whatever side she’s on

 

[osby]

Heroes, always. I'm not fond of some villains.

 

[ThoughtfulWanderer]

Heroes will stomp simply because there are so many of them, lol. Nothing against villains, but it's easy for me to find 10 heroes that I enjoy to seriously compete with out of every 1 or 2 villains.

In most cases, I also find heroes to have a more charming character with all the acrobatic plumbers, pretty boy bishounens, bounty hunters, psychics, squid kids, sassy witches, meme machines, and puffballs/dinosaurs/monkeys/dogs of the world to choose from. I definitely choose to be a hero.

 

[Arthur97]

Hmm...I actually like a lot of the villains now that I think about it. Still gotta go heroes though.

 

[Aurane]

Team Villians, if alts. count.

 

[Crystanium]

Heroes will stomp simply because there are so many of them, lol.

It doesn't matter how many heroes there are. What matters is if they have the tools necessary to win.

Bayo is an anti-hero at worst and a hero at best (angles aren’t really good in her world, especially cause she’s a witch)...nearly everyone from heaven and hell wants her and Jeanne dead

That would explain why she resorts to circular shapes for her magic abilities. Those darn angles.

Anyway, I'm siding with villains.

 

[ThoughtfulWanderer]

It doesn't matter how many heroes there are. What matters is if they have the tools necessary to win.

True. Though if we're talking about the heroes and villains literally duking it out, the heroes have some impressive power on their side if we assume full strength. Just look at some of the feats accomplished in canon, to name a few.

 

[Crystanium]

True. Though if we're talking about the heroes and villains literally duking it out, the heroes have some impressive power on their side if we assume full strength. Just look at some of the feats accomplished in canon, to name a few.

I only see two, not five. Kirby's feats are inflated. I've played numerous Kirby games and haven't seen what others assert. Ness had a team. Shulk's is circumstantial.


Dark Samus has much of the physical abilities Samus has. This means she should also be able to throw around ~43 metric tons (~47 short tons). Samus outran a powder snow avalanche, and these are the fastest avalanches ranging from speeds anywhere between 35 to 85 m/s (~78 to 190 mi/h). Dark Samus should be equally capable. In terms of durability, her shielding has stopped sub-zero temperatures, electrical attacks, and plasma attacks without a problem. Missiles and super missiles don't work, either. Dark Samus is capable of "reform[ing] her body short of total atomic disruption." (MP2:E - Dark Samus 2) This was by her second form. She had three more forms after this.

Homing missiles seem to use shaped charges. In Metroid: Other M, there's a barrier wall where the soldier Anthony Higgs comments: "We tried using explosives, but it's tricky to pull off without collateral damage. What we need is some way to focus the power onto one centralized location . . ." Samus ends up using her missile to destroy the barrier. A shaped charge focuses the effect of the explosive's energy. You can observe the difference between an explosion and an explosion involving a shaped charge. This makes penetrating things like tanks very useful. In that video, that shaped charge could penetrate ~15 cm. (6 in.) of steel. And yet, these missiles won't do anything to Dark Samus. Super missiles can do this. Be sure to watch up to 1:01.

Dark Samus can also teleport. She was able to teleport from the planet Tallon IV to the planet Aether. Aether wasn't seen in the Observatory in Metroid Prime, meaning it's not part of the solar system Tallon IV is in. Tallon IV appears to be on the outer part of the solar system, though. Even if the two planets were close, that's still millions of kilometers apart. And yes, it has been confirmed that Dark Samus teleported to Aether. And this is just Dark Samus. There's quite a number of feats for Ridley, but I won't bother with him.

 

[Arthur97]

I only see two, not five. Kirby's feats are inflated. I've played numerous Kirby games and haven't seen what others assert. Ness had a team. Shulk's is circumstantial.


Dark Samus has much of the physical abilities Samus has. This means she should also be able to throw around ~43 metric tons (~47 short tons). Samus outran a powder snow avalanche, and these are the fastest avalanches ranging from speeds anywhere between 35 to 85 m/s (~78 to 190 mi/h). Dark Samus should be equally capable. In terms of durability, her shielding has stopped sub-zero temperatures, electrical attacks, and plasma attacks without a problem. Missiles and super missiles don't work, either. Dark Samus is capable of "reform[ing] her body short of total atomic disruption." (MP2:E - Dark Samus 2) This was by her second form. She had three more forms after this.

Homing missiles seem to use shaped charges. In Metroid: Other M, there's a barrier wall where the soldier Anthony Higgs comments: "We tried using explosives, but it's tricky to pull off without collateral damage. What we need is some way to focus the power onto one centralized location . . ." Samus ends up using her missile to destroy the barrier. A shaped charge focuses the effect of the explosive's energy. You can observe the difference between an explosion and an explosion involving a shaped charge. This makes penetrating things like tanks very useful. In that video, that shaped charge could penetrate ~15 cm. (6 in.) of steel. And yet, these missiles won't do anything to Dark Samus. Super missiles can do this. Be sure to watch up to 1:01.

Dark Samus can also teleport. She was able to teleport from the planet Tallon IV to the planet Aether. Aether wasn't seen in the Observatory in Metroid Prime, meaning it's not part of the solar system Tallon IV is in. Tallon IV appears to be on the outer part of the solar system, though. Even if the two planets were close, that's still millions of kilometers apart. And yes, it has been confirmed that Dark Samus teleported to Aether. And this is just Dark Samus. There's quite a number of feats for Ridley, but I won't bother with him.

Donkey Kong punched a (admittedly small) moon out of orbit. The heroes will be fine. Not to mention each villain has a counter which has or will defeat them. Well, Young Link being the Hero of Time doesn't have the Master Sword (for OoT Ganondorf), but there are two other Master Swords.

 

[Kevandre]

I live for :ultrobin being in both columns.

And that's my answer. Whichever version of Robin is in Smash is probably the side I choose. I'm excited to see their new final Smash. I'd love for it to be evil Robin.

 

[ThoughtfulWanderer]

I only see two, not five. Kirby's feats are inflated. I've played numerous Kirby games and haven't seen what others assert. Ness had a team. Shulk's is circumstantial.


Dark Samus has much of the physical abilities Samus has. This means she should also be able to throw around ~43 metric tons (~47 short tons). Samus outran a powder snow avalanche, and these are the fastest avalanches ranging from speeds anywhere between 35 to 85 m/s (~78 to 190 mi/h). Dark Samus should be equally capable. In terms of durability, her shielding has stopped sub-zero temperatures, electrical attacks, and plasma attacks without a problem. Missiles and super missiles don't work, either. Dark Samus is capable of "reform[ing] her body short of total atomic disruption." (MP2:E - Dark Samus 2) This was by her second form. She had three more forms after this.

Homing missiles seem to use shaped charges. In Metroid: Other M, there's a barrier wall where the soldier Anthony Higgs comments: "We tried using explosives, but it's tricky to pull off without collateral damage. What we need is some way to focus the power onto one centralized location . . ." Samus ends up using her missile to destroy the barrier. A shaped charge focuses the effect of the explosive's energy. You can observe the difference between an explosion and an explosion involving a shaped charge. This makes penetrating things like tanks very useful. In that video, that shaped charge could penetrate ~15 cm. (6 in.) of steel. And yet, these missiles won't do anything to Dark Samus. Super missiles can do this. Be sure to watch up to 1:01.

Dark Samus can also teleport. She was able to teleport from the planet Tallon IV to the planet Aether. Aether wasn't seen in the Observatory in Metroid Prime, meaning it's not part of the solar system Tallon IV is in. Tallon IV appears to be on the outer part of the solar system, though. Even if the two planets were close, that's still millions of kilometers apart. And yes, it has been confirmed that Dark Samus teleported to Aether. And this is just Dark Samus. There's quite a number of feats for Ridley, but I won't bother with him.

Ness may have a team, but he's by far the physically strongest party member thanks to his

Spoiler

awakening in Magicant. He specifically may not have finished off Giygas, but he is able to combat against the embodiment of evil itself.

Even if what surrounds Shulk's plot and power is circumstantial, he still is attuned to the Monado and all its stronger forms. He controls the Monado and the final battle shows the kind of threat he is capable of destroying with it. For Kirby, I'll leave this quote I found long ago on another discussion since it sums him up:

Spoiler

First of all, yes you're correct about Kirby being planetary at the very minimum. A supercomputer confirmed that Galacta Knight was a planet buster, and he was defeated by Kirby once and by Meta Knight twice. Kirby also beat Meta Knight 5 times in the series or so. There is also the Megaton Punch minigame where he cracks Popstar with a single punch. For god knows what reason some people like to not consider this minigame because it's apparently a "gag", when in the same game he exploded a planet sized clock and in another game a similar minigame happened this time saying "Crack the Earth with a wack".

But he is most likely stronger than that. Kirby also killed Dark Nebula, who heavily altered a galaxy just by awakening. He has access to the Starship, which was made from gathering the power from 7 stars in Milky Way Wishes. He also defeated Claycia, who created an entire solar system (dunno how well this translates to combat power).

But his most impressive feat is killing Magolor Soul, whose death destroyed an entire dimension. And to the people who say that "when he dies this happens" isn't a good feat, the logical explanation as to what caused the dimension to be destroyed was the power of the Master Crown being released. The pause description of Magolor Soul specifically says that he was a manifestation of the crown itself, and that the crown was the source of limitless power. So, yes it does make sense Kirby killing a universal opponent. There is also Kirby pushing back the same wave that was destroying the dimension in earlier points in the game.

I'm not suggesting that the villains don't have feats of their own (especially not with Bowser and Ganondorf). The only point I'm trying to make is that there are heroes that are comparable in strength, and with additional numbers supporting them, they should have the advantage.

 

[Crystanium]

Donkey Kong punched a (admittedly small) moon out of orbit. The heroes will be fine. Not to mention each villain has a counter which has or will defeat them. Well, Young Link being the Hero of Time doesn't have the Master Sword (for OoT Ganondorf), but there are two other Master Swords.

The Moon, which wasn't actually launched, but fell onto Tiki Tong and didn't even destroy DK Island. There are volcanoes known to have destroyed themselves due to the amount of energy generated. I'd at least expect the volcano on DK Island to destroy itself, since it would have had to have launched the Moon back into orbit. Even if this was an accepted physical strength feat, physical strength alone isn't enough to win. The master sword also doesn't mean much when each villain has others to deal with them.

Ness may have a team, but he's by far the physically strongest party member thanks to his

Spoiler

awakening in Magicant. He specifically may not have finished off Giygas, but he is able to combat against the embodiment of evil itself.

You needn't have spoilers. The game is pretty old. I'm not sure what being awakened has anything to do with anything. As for Giygas being the embodiment of evil, well, our own history has quite a bit of those, so that statement doesn't say much.

Even if what surrounds Shulk's plot and power is circumstantial, he still is attuned to the Monado and all its stronger forms. He controls the Monado and the final battle shows the kind of threat he is capable of destroying with it.

Like a universe? If that's what you're talking about, then let me explain it this way. The CEO of Nintendo has control over Nintendo, but not Sony. The CEO of Sony has control over Sony, but not Nintendo. The notion of a universal threat or similar statements don't work outside of those universes. Samus is regarded as the savior of the galaxy, but that doesn't mean such title or power would apply in other universes.

For Kirby, I'll leave this quote I found long ago on another discussion since it sums him up:

Which I shall address. Since I don't know who you're quoting, I'll attribute the quote to you.

First of all, yes you're correct about Kirby being planetary at the very minimum.

I wonder how this conclusion was made.

A supercomputer confirmed that Galacta Knight was a planet buster,

I wonder what this supercomputer actually said.

and he was defeated by Kirby once and by Meta Knight twice.

Let's say I could defeat ZeRo. Does that mean I can defeat everyone else ZeRo can defeat? No. Just because Kirby defeated Galacta Knight (however he did it) doesn't mean Kirby is suddenly capable of destroying planets.

There is also the Megaton Punch minigame where he cracks Popstar with a single punch. For god knows what reason some people like to not consider this minigame because it's apparently a "gag", when in the same game he exploded a planet sized clock and in another game a similar minigame happened this time saying "Crack the Earth with a wack".

A mini-game isn't accepted because it's not regarded as canon. It doesn't pertain to the story. Notice that Popstar is intact every time Kirby goes for another strike.

But he is most likely stronger than that. Kirby also killed Dark Nebula, who heavily altered a galaxy just by awakening. He has access to the Starship, which was made from gathering the power from 7 stars in Milky Way Wishes. He also defeated Claycia, who created an entire solar system (dunno how well this translates to combat power).

So, it sounds to me like the ZeRo analogy. I could throw out plenty of examples of why this doesn't make sense. Just because Link, for example, defeated Ganondorf, doesn't mean Link has equal physical strength, durability, speed, &c.

But his most impressive feat is killing Magolor Soul, whose death destroyed an entire dimension. And to the people who say that "when he dies this happens" isn't a good feat, the logical explanation as to what caused the dimension to be destroyed was the power of the Master Crown being released. The pause description of Magolor Soul specifically says that he was a manifestation of the crown itself, and that the crown was the source of limitless power. So, yes it does make sense Kirby killing a universal opponent.

Just like how when Samus defeated Dark Samus, the planet Phaaze began to set off. I guess Samus is a planetary-buster, according to this logic. Just because a crown has limitless power doesn't mean the crown itself has limitless durability.

There is also Kirby pushing back the same wave that was destroying the dimension in earlier points in the game.

I find this dubious. When Kirby spits out stars, they don't demonstrate a destructive force. Admittedly, spitting stars deals more damage to bosses than weapons.[/QUOTE]

 

[YoshiandToad]

I'll go with the heroes.

You can spout about power levels all you want, but Mario always kicks Bowser's ass, Samus always overcomes Dark Samus and Ridley, Link always defeats Ganon, Fox always out performs Wolf and Yoshi always stomps Baby Bowser's tiny underdeveloped head into the ground.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Heeeey you're also forgetting another side.

The anti-heroes.

 

[Jyl]

Did I miss something? Why are G&W and ROB villains?

 

[Michael the Spikester]

How it should be honestly.

Heroes:
ultrosalina://

Anti-Heroes:


Villains:

 

[Mariomaniac45213]

Team Villain for life. Been waiting since Melee to FINALLY be able to have K.Rool, Bowser, Wolf, Ridley, and Ganondorf team up. Going straight to 5 v 5 team battle mode (or whatever it's called) and having a team of the 5 listed above vs. DK, Mario, Fox, Samus, and Link. This is the first time Smash Bros. feels "complete" in my eyes.

Can't wait to have 8 player battles with K.Rool, Ganondorf, Bowser, Ridley, Bowser Jr., Wolf, Wario, and Dark Samus all battling each other. It's gonna be glorious too. God this Smash is gonna be something "special", ultimate some might even say....

 

[Captain Shades]

I love how everyone is debating power levels but is leaving Robin out for villains, you know, the guy who was actually able to destroy the planet turning it into a wasteland, and he needed two generations of heroes to defeat him once his inner Grima side was awakened. He’s the one villain to actual kill one of his heroes being Chrom and really the rest of Chrom’s gang.

As for the heroes always beat the villains thing, why not just switch then. Why should Bowser take Mario when he could be better suited for another opponent. It’d be a smarter way to handle this.

Did I miss something? Why are G&W and ROB villains?

Sub space Emissary, there were multiple R.O.B.s and Game & Watches that worked for the Subspace army. Game & Watch was actually the being that created the mechanical menace Doun in the Subspace as multiple joined together to take on the heroes.

Heeeey you're also forgetting another side.

The anti-heroes.

To make it simpler, plus villains can’t be that outnumbered, lets just keep it between heroes and villains K.

Also is Dark Pit even an anti-hero, he seems just like an edgy pit, has a bit more attitude but became good pretty fast. Wolf is also a villain as Zero reverted him back.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

To make it simpler, plus villains can’t be that outnumbered, lets just keep it between heroes and villains K.

Also is Dark Pit even an anti-hero, he seems just like an edgy pit, has a bit more attitude but became good pretty fast. Wolf is also a villain as Zero reverted him back.

I recall Dark Pit is indeed a anti-hero. He was created to defeat Pit but ended up being rebellious or something and simply just likes to be edgy and try to beat Pit. In other words, he's really on no ones side.

 

[Arthur97]

Sub space Emissary, there were multiple R.O.B.s and Game & Watches that worked for the Subspace army. Game & Watch was actually the being that created the mechanical menace Doun in the Subspace as multiple joined together to take on the heroes.

I thought Game & Watch was either used or simply has no sense of right and wrong making him not really evil.

 

[Captain Shades]

I thought Game & Watch was either used or simply has no sense of right and wrong making him not really evil.

Yeah, it’s hard to really say, which is why he’s on both sides like R.O.B., but really if there was say another Subspace, then I’m sure G&W would probably be used again and so would the R.O.B.s, so I feel it could go either way

 

[DjinnandTonic]

You should remove the true neutral characters / civillians. Like most of the pokemon, animal crossing, wiifit, punchout, etc. characters.

 

[Captain Shades]

You should remove the true neutral characters / civillians. Like most of the pokemon, animal crossing, wiifit, punchout, etc. characters.

Ehh... I guess I’m thinking about this in terms of a story mode similar to Subspace. In that regard than the list works perfectly as more neutral characters had to pick sides in that mode, with Game & Watch and R.O.B. choosing the villains team, while Ice Climbers and the Pokémon joined the good guys. If a new mode was to form than Isabelle and Villager would need to pick a side.

Little Mac would also probably help, he is a fighter afteralll and you never know if a Punch-Out!! character could be with the villains as a boss, similar to how King Hippo worked with Mother Brain in Captain N.

 

[Zinith]

I'm Team Yosh-- I mean, Team Heroes!!! Yup, I love heroes, that's totally why I picked them...

 

[Frizz]

Is Robin really a villain though? He's just the vessel for Grima, meaning that Grima can have full control of his body, so whatever Grima himself does in Robin's body isn't his fault by any means.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

Villains lol.

Why is G&W a villain?

 

[pupNapoleon]

I would count Bayonetta as a villain. I would not understand why Robin, Game and Watch, Miis, and ROB are in the villain category.

And I certainly choose team villain, because they get the best monologues, as all actors know.

I'll go with the heroes.

You can spout about power levels all you want, but Mario always kicks Bowser's ***, Samus always overcomes Dark Samus and Ridley, Link always defeats Ganon, Fox always out performs Wolf and Yoshi always stomps Baby Bowser's tiny underdeveloped head into the ground.

Link dies all the time. And then a new Link is born.
1- is link the Vampire Slayer? I think Link is the vampire slayer.
2- Ganondorf always eventually wins. It's just the battle of good and evil.

 

[osby]

I would count Bayonetta as a villain. I would not understand why Robin, Game and Watch, Miis, and ROB are in the villain category.

And I certainly choose team villain, because they get the best monologues, as all actors know.



Link dies all the time. And then a new Link is born.
1- is link the Vampire Slayer? I think Link is the vampire slayer.
2- Ganondorf always eventually wins. It's just the battle of good and evil.

Why Bayonetta is a villain, she hates monologues.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Why Bayonetta is a villain, she hates monologues.

Which only adds to her complexity.

I mean I cannot say 'villain,' anti-hero is correct (and generally synonymous on these forums). That said, I played through the games thinking she was an anti-hero.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I choose the Heroes side. Mostly because that's where the Kongs will belong, and it's overall a bigger chance I end up playing characters I like more.

 

[YoshiandToad]

I would count Bayonetta as a villain. I would not understand why Robin, Game and Watch, Miis, and ROB are in the villain category.

And I certainly choose team villain, because they get the best monologues, as all actors know.



Link dies all the time. And then a new Link is born.
1- is link the Vampire Slayer? I think Link is the vampire slayer.
2- Ganondorf always eventually wins. It's just the battle of good and evil.

What about Wind Waker when Link kills Ganondorf forever?

Not sure Link dying of old age and being reincarnated counts as a loss to Ganon. Otherwise all mortals are incapable of overall victory. Certainly wouldn't count it as a win for Ganon since said same soul will constantly thwart him.

Speaking of...why doesn't Ganon just seal Link's soul when he's an infant and incapable of even lifting the Master Sword? Or just genocide the Hylian race as Link and Zelda always reincarnate as such.

 

[Crystanium]

I'll go with the heroes.

You can spout about power levels all you want, but Mario always kicks Bowser's ***, Samus always overcomes Dark Samus and Ridley, Link always defeats Ganon, Fox always out performs Wolf and Yoshi always stomps Baby Bowser's tiny underdeveloped head into the ground.

Samus only defeated Dark Samus due to circumstances. Lack of access to Phazon abilities may make it impossible for Samus to defeat Dark Samus. Link doesn't always defeat Ganondorf, hence the timeline of his defeat. There's also Breath of the Wild, where Link was defeated. Dark Samus is probably the most powerful on the villain's side, and she's capable of corrupting her enemies. She also "wiped out a third of the [space pirate] crew in a matter of minutes" before "using her witchery to beguile the minds of the crew." A third could mean anything, but how large would a crew be on a battleship? Assuming the Colossus was about the size of the ships as those of the Galactic Federation, it'd be pretty massive. The last battleship was the Battleship USS Missouri BB-63, which had a crew of 1,921 people. Settling with 1,000 space pirates, that'd mean Dark Samus was killing 5.56 space pirates per second. Dark Samus can also do this. So, unless someone can defeat Dark Samus, I'm siding with the villains.

 

[Spinosaurus]

Most of my most liked characters are on the villains side lol. If Incineroar happens then him, too.

So, yeah, I guess I def gravitate towards antagonists more. On that note, if G&W is a villain, then Greninja should be too as per Conquest pitting him with the "Bad Guys". (also they're a ninja and not particularly said to be an honorable one like Sheik outside Ash's one, on top of the Dark typing.)

 

[Chumpodile]

Villains always baby!