The Sword of Seals - Roy Moveset + Frame Data (incomplete)

[MarioMeteor]

I'm really starting to like his F-throw, it leads to tech chasing really well.

I just killed someone with Jab -> pivot grab -> forward throw -> Blazer. I now know what love feels like.

 

[Hellrazor]

Fun Fact:
When preforming DED, if you use the upward version of Hit 3 and then the Forwards version of Hit 4, you get WAY more knockback. Kills around 100%.

whoa what

how does that make sense

is there an invisible sweetspot that only up 3 can allow side 4 to reach?

 

[MagiusNecros]

whoa what

how does that make sense

is there an invisible sweetspot that only up 3 can allow side 4 to reach?

Always hits the hilt. Intentional design.

 

[MarioMeteor]

Down throw to Blazer seems guaranteed at low percents. Same with Jab.

 

[Indigo Jeans]

FAF before autocancel is uncommon but not unheard of. Shulk's UAir and DAir are like that too.

Updated with jab, tilt, dash attack, smash, aerial, grab, pummel, and throw frame data. Currently gathering dodges and specials (Double-Edge Dance, rip me)

 

[Gawain]

FAF before autocancel is uncommon but not unheard of. Shulk's UAir and DAir are like that too.

Updated with jab, tilt, dash attack, smash, aerial, grab, pummel, and throw frame data. Currently gathering dodges and specials (Double-Edge Dance, rip me)

Yeah I'm putting off DED for a little bit lol.

 

[VioletSmashfan]

Bought and tested out my old Melee alt in Roy and he's 100x better than he was in Melee (except he still has a bad recovery, even though it's buffed).

Got well over 6,000 ft in home-run contest, by using almost fully charged flare blade, looks like Ganondorf may have some competition (if Roy can get over 10,000 ft).

 

[MonkeyArms]

Roy's recovery move has super armor on start up, you might want to add that.

 

[Gawain]

Roy's recovery move has super armor on start up, you might want to add that.

Confirmed. This is actually going to be VERY helpful for Roy. This will be a good option as an OOS reversal. Nice!

 

[JesseMcCloud]

I've been doing some experimenting, and want to ask: does lateral Blazer deal more/different KB than vertical Blazer, or is it just me?
Also, anyone else wish that DED was closer to Melee Roy's?

 

[Hellrazor]

I've been doing some experimenting, and want to ask: does lateral Blazer deal more/different KB than vertical Blazer, or is it just me?
Also, anyone else wish that DED was closer to Melee Roy's?

Everyone wishes that DED/DB were closer to Melee. I think Blazer does the same regardless of the angle. It's all about how many hits you land and ensuring you get the strong finish.

On a side note, I'm enjoying the hell out of Sm4sh now. Couldn't have fun with it before Roy and Ryu.

 

[JesseMcCloud]

Everyone wishes that DED/DB were closer to Melee. I think Blazer does the same regardless of the angle. It's all about how many hits you land and ensuring you get the strong finish.

Yeah, I agree. Lateral Blazer must make it easier to sweet spot on the last hit.

 

[Indigo Jeans]

I feel as though it doesn't have super armour on aerial startup... I've gotten hit out of it more times than I'd like when tryna recover.

Edit: Alright, so I can now confirm

Blazer doesn't have super armour on aerial startup.

Blazer only grants super armour on grounded startup, and the armour lasts from F4-F10 (gone F11).

Anyway you all should help me come up with a better, wittier name for the thread

 

[Chibi-Chan]

Kind of Sad that his Aerials have no kill power before like 130% even offstage. Was hoping Downthrow DJ Sweetspot Backair would kill at like 120% but it falls juuuuuuuuuuuuuust short of that..

He's stuck to the ground for actual KOing.

 

[Hellrazor]

Kind of Sad that his Aerials have no kill power before like 130% even offstage. Was hoping Downthrow DJ Sweetspot Backair would kill at like 120% but it falls juuuuuuuuuuuuuust short of that..

He's stuck to the ground for actual KOing.

He's damn good at it, though. Fsmash can kill at 60, all of his tilts but dtilt kill around 120, his upsmash can kill at around 100-120 depending on the stage. DED side 4 kills around 130+. He's got reliable kill moves this time around, and it's glorious. Having moves do over 10% for once is nice too.

 

[MarioMeteor]

You'd think that lateral Blazer would be less effective than vertical Blazer since the latter drags the opponent closer to the upper blast zone.

 

[Zorai]

Thanks a lot for the data, it's very appreciated.

First thing I want to point out is that despite frame disadvantage for ftilt and dtilt on shield, the center-hit variations of both of those moves have significant shieldpush. If you add +7 frames for them having to drop their shield and then account for the shieldpush, they might be relatively safe.

Also, when do you suspect we will have frame data for side-b? I noticed that's not included in the OP.

 

[Vipermoon]

@ Indigo Jeans You have the frame 68 FAF/IASA on Usmash wrong. Not sure if typo (or if you accidently included hitlag), but Roy's Usmash is not that laggy. It feels about the same as Marth's which is IASA frame 58 (pre patch Marth, probably the same post patch).

 

[Indigo Jeans]

Thanks a lot for the data, it's very appreciated.

First thing I want to point out is that despite frame disadvantage for ftilt and dtilt on shield, the center-hit variations of both of those moves have significant shieldpush. If you add +7 frames for them having to drop their shield and then account for the shieldpush, they might be relatively safe.

Also, when do you suspect we will have frame data for side-b? I noticed that's not included in the OP.

I'm just procrastinating on DED because of how much there is to do for it lmao. I'll try and have it done either tonight or tomorrow.

@ Indigo Jeans You have the frame 68 FAF/IASA on Usmash wrong. Not sure if typo (or if you accidently included hitlag), but Roy's Usmash is not that laggy. It feels about the same as Marth's which is IASA frame 58 (pre patch Marth, probably the same post patch).

I'll check it again.

 

[Hellrazor]

You'd think that lateral Blazer would be less effective than vertical Blazer since the latter drags the opponent closer to the upper blast zone.

Of course it all matters based on vertical placement, but at the same time lateral Blazer can catch opponents that try to DI away.

 

[MarioMeteor]

Of course it all matters based on vertical placement, but at the same time lateral Blazer can catch opponents that try to DI away.

Could you DI out of vertical Blazer?

 

[Hellrazor]

Could you DI out of vertical Blazer?

I've seen it graze enemies before, or lose them before the finishing hit; not sure if DI had anything to do with it. Would've been remedied by a more horizontal angle.

 

[MarioMeteor]

I've seen it graze enemies before, or lose them before the finishing hit; not sure if DI had anything to do with it. Would've been remedied by a more horizontal angle.

What do you mean by "more horizontal angle?"

 

[LancerStaff]

Interesting that he has combos that could KO... Well, they're close to combos. The % window for 'em is quite small, about 10% wide on Mario. Bigger on heavier characters, smaller on light, and lightweights are pretty much everywhere.

 

[Jrzfine]

Interesting that he has combos that could KO... Well, they're close to combos. The % window for 'em is quite small, about 10% wide on Mario. Bigger on heavier characters, smaller on light, and lightweights are pretty much everywhere.

Roy seems to have a lot of combos, but most of them only work at specific percents. So it's very important for Roy mains to remain aware of their opponents % so they can use the appropriate combo when the time is right.
Here's a list of practical combos I use, all done on Ryu:
0%
Dthrow > Jab > Regrab Dthrow > Jab
Dthrow > Jab > Dthrow > UpB
Nair hit 1 or Uair Sweet > Fthrow > Nair
Jab > 1 Pummel > Dthrow > Jab
30%
Fthrow > Dash Attack
Fthrow > Nair
Dthrow > F/Utilt/, depending on DI
Uair > Usmash
Uair Sour and Nair hit 1 can be used to setup the throws
60%
Dthrow > Uair
Fthrow > Nair
Dtilt Sweet > Techchase or SideB/UpB if they miss the tech
Jab > Grab > Followup
Jab > SideB (Mid-Up-Up-Mid locks them the best)
Uair Sweet > UpB
100%
Dthrow > UpB (Kills Ryu at 110%)
Uair > Uair/Fair
Nair hit1 > Jab > UpB

 

[LancerStaff]

Roy seems to have a lot of combos, but most of them only work at specific percents. So it's very important for Roy mains to remain aware of their opponents % so they can use the appropriate combo when the time is right.
Here's a list of practical combos I use:
0%
Dthrow > Jab > Regrab Dthrow > Jab
Dthrow > Jab > Dthrow > UpB
Nair hit 1 or Uair Sweet > Fthrow > Nair
Jab > 1 Pummel > Dthrow > Jab
30%
Fthrow > Dash Attack
Fthrow > Nair
Dthrow > F/Utilt/, depending on DI
Uair > Usmash
Uair Sour and Nair hit 1 can be used to setup the throws
60%
Dthrow > Uair
Fthrow > Nair
Dtilt Sweet > Techchase or SideB/UpB if they miss the tech
Jab > Grab > Followup
Jab > SideB (Mid-Up-Up-Mid locks them the best)
Uair Sweet > UpB
100%
Dthrow > UpB (Kills Ryu at 110%)
Uair > Uair/Fair
Nair hit1 > Jab > UpB

The problem with the Dthrow > Jab > X stuff is that proper DI kills it and most don't understand proper Smash 4 DI. Remember Vectoring? Still there, but the old DI mechanics that were still there were buffed and work in interesting ways with it. So if I wanted to escape a combo from Roy's jab I'd hold up/up & right in SSB4, instead of down as with the old mechanics. Actually, down would be the absolute worst so now smash veterans have a rather skewed view of the game's combos and KO moves.

 

[Jrzfine]

The problem with the Dthrow > Jab > X stuff is that proper DI kills it and most don't understand proper Smash 4 DI. Remember Vectoring? Still there, but the old DI mechanics that were still there were buffed and work in interesting ways with it. So if I wanted to escape a combo from Roy's jab I'd hold up/up & right in SSB4, instead of down as with the old mechanics. Actually, down would be the absolute worst so now smash veterans have a rather skewed view of the game's combos and KO moves.

You cannot DI the Dthrow enough to avoid the Jab at low percents unless you are a floaty. It is true, though , that you can DI to avoid the regrab. However, it's very obvious when they're going to have enough time to jump out f it so you can pursue with an aerial or bait the airdodge and punish with Fsmash.

 

[Jrzfine]

Anyway you all should help me come up with a better, wittier name for the thread

How about "This is just the beginning of a battle." (Shin no tatakai wa, korekara da.)?
Since frame data tells us the beginning of all his attacks, which he uses to initiate the battle.
...Couldn't think of anything better, sorry lol.

 

[Chibi-Chan]

What is the point of FLare Blade (Neutral B)? Uncharged it's worse than Fsmash in almost every weak (Weak, slow with crappy hitbox). You can't really use it to edgeguard like in Melee because the actual Slash does't have a hitbox... It just... Has such specific range for how weak it is uncharged.

Guess it will forever have an use as humiliation move after a shield break...

 

[Gawain]

What is the point of FLare Blade (Neutral B)? Uncharged it's worse than Fsmash in almost every weak (Weak, slow with crappy hitbox). You can't really use it to edgeguard like in Melee because the actual Slash does't have a hitbox... It just... Has such specific range for how weak it is uncharged.

Guess it will forever have an use as humiliation move after a shield break...

No, Flare Blade hits the ledge if you space it right. Ive hit Captain Falcon out of his sweetspot with it before. It kills super early at even a quarter charge in these types of scenarios so it's good here. Also, it has a deceptively short number of frames from the time its hitbox appears to the FAF, it's something like only 23 frames. I find myself baiting people with it and then hitting them with fsmash when they try to go in to punish. It's not as useful as before but it's still okay.

 

[Hellrazor]

What do you mean by "more horizontal angle?"

If I had directed Blazer more sideways than upward I would've landed the last hit.

 

[Fenrir VII]

empty SH to dtilt is such a good pressure tool.

Also Neutral B has surprisingly little lag. Can be a great trap to get a jab/ftilt to punish the opponent trying to punish you. Or of course you can counter if they try attacking.

 

[LancerStaff]

You cannot DI the Dthrow enough to avoid the Jab at low percents unless you are a floaty. It is true, though , that you can DI to avoid the regrab. However, it's very obvious when they're going to have enough time to jump out f it so you can pursue with an aerial or bait the airdodge and punish with Fsmash.

Like I said, anything past two hits will be difficult because you can just hold up and out to DI properly against virtually any combo on reaction. Even if you get a grab on somebody, holding up and out would be the proper DI for both Fthrow and Dthrow combos.

 

[MarioMeteor]

What is the point of FLare Blade (Neutral B)? Uncharged it's worse than Fsmash in almost every weak (Weak, slow with crappy hitbox). You can't really use it to edgeguard like in Melee because the actual Slash does't have a hitbox... It just... Has such specific range for how weak it is uncharged.

Guess it will forever have an use as humiliation move after a shield break...

Uncharged Flare Blade has a surprisingly small amount of ending lag, so it can be a little surprise tool every once in a while. Or maybe use it to punish landings.

 

[Oblivion129]

I recommend you guys put Tap Jump on, or at least have a shoulder button for jumping. Blazer out of shield is really good.

 

[MarioMeteor]

I recommend you guys put Tap Jump on, or at least have a shoulder button for jumping. Blazer out of shield is really good.

It's not necessary. Jumping out of shield then performing Blazer is another method. Or you could just drop your shield and do it, but Tap Jump isn't the only way to do it.

 

[Oblivion129]

It's not necessary. Jumping out of shield then performing Blazer is another method. Or you could just drop your shield and do it, but Tap Jump isn't the only way to do it.

Setting L o R to jump and pressing it at the same time as UpB is doable. Or if your jump button is right next to B like in some controllers.
I don't recommend dropping shield and then using blazer. Doing it after canceling shield with a jump is faster. Go ahead and use your preferred controller settings, though.

 

[Vipermoon]

@ Indigo Jeans

You say Blazer has super armor. I believe that's invincibility like Marth. The difference between SA and In. is he doesnt take damage.

 

[MarioMeteor]

Does anybody know what frame Blazer is?

 

[Toonation]

Just adding this Wavebouncing Flare Blade. Guys Remember wavebounceing is a thing in this game

Also it looks super cool on roy :3