Social The Suburbs of Onett - Ness Social Thread

[Manbeartigerphoenix]

PSI Magnets end lag buffed even though it can be magnet canceled if you absorb something, well this makes playing against energy projectile spammers a tad better now incase they decide to mix it up a tad and not throw one out.

 

[ROBnWatch]

So @Shaky just won a huge 91 person tournament in FL. Congrats on doing so well! I can't wait to see how you do at CEO!

Congrats Shaky!

And yay! R.O.B. got some representation in 3rd!

Also, I've beaten the Plague Rat of Doom in EarthBound. I...kinda did some things in the wrong order, so I used a guide to help me get back on track. 5/8 done with the Melodies, then it's on to beat Giygas!!! (Even though I know there are some events that happen between getting the melodies and going after Giygas)

 

[SuperTorn]

Also, I've beaten the Plague Rat of Doom in EarthBound. I...kinda did some things in the wrong order, so I used a guide to help me get back on track. 5/8 done with the Melodies, then it's on to beat Giygas!!! (Even though I know there are some events that happen between getting the melodies and going after Giygas)

I think the only time I fell off track in EarthBound was with the Sanctuary Guardians, I beat the 7th Guardian and then the 6th which if I remember was in Dalaam. So obviously when I came back I was over-leveled so everything was a lot easier getting to the 6th Guardian

 

[ROBnWatch]

I think the only time I fell off track in EarthBound was with the Sanctuary Guardians, I beat the 7th Guardian and then the 6th which if I remember was in Dalaam. So obviously when I came back I was over-leveled so everything was a lot easier getting to the 6th Guardian

I've fallen off track twice already, but I think I'm going to keep this guide, just in case it happens again...

 

[Deleted member]

Decided to start posting here because I want to get into competitive gaming.

Also because EarthBound/Mother 2 is one of my favorite video games ever. Hoping to get invited into the Ness's Skype group soon, I did ask kidodeath about it.

 

[ROBnWatch]

Decided to start posting here because I want to get into competitive gaming.

Also because EarthBound/Mother 2 is one of my favorite video games ever. Hoping to get invited into the Ness's Skype group soon, I did ask kidodeath about it.

Lol, just your username alone is funny. Welcome to the Ness boards. Enjoy your stay (witty EarthBound reference).

 

[Deleted member]

Lol, just your username alone is funny. Welcome to the Ness boards. Enjoy your stay (witty EarthBound reference).

Thanks. I began to adopt the name back in December, 2014 when I started to play EarthBound. I think I am going to be sticking to this one for a very long time.

 

[ROBnWatch]

Thanks. I began to adopt the name back in December, 2014 when I started to play EarthBound. I think I am going to be sticking to this one for a very long time.

Coolio. I'm playing through it myself, just got the 5th melody. I absolutely love it. It's completely retro (which, in my book, means old but cool). And even though you know you're on a quest to save the world, the game doesn't treat it as such, and makes it feel really quirky and humorous. It's really just a forgotten masterpiece.

 

[Deleted member]

Coolio. I'm playing through it myself, just got the 5th melody. I absolutely love it. It's completely retro (which, in my book, means old but cool). And even though you know you're on a quest to save the world, the game doesn't treat it as such, and makes it feel really quirky and humorous. It's really just a forgotten masterpiece.

I just came off of finishing EarthBound last Wednesday and there is virtually nothing I won't laud about the game. I think what made it click with me was the setting because a modern-day 1990s setting is something I can relate to (because it's kind of like a parody of modern-day culture). But I could write an essay about how much I love this game.

And as for forgotten masterpieces, Smash and us dedicated fans have ensured that the Mother franchise will never be forgotten. It was because of us that EarthBound (and as of a few days ago, EarthBound Beginnings) came to the Virtual Console and I also feel we have a good shot at a Mother 3 localization for the Wii U Virtual Console.

 

[ROBnWatch]

I just came off of finishing EarthBound last Wednesday and there is virtually nothing I won't laud about the game. I think what made it click with me was the setting because a modern-day 1990s setting is something I can relate to (because it's kind of like a parody of modern-day culture). But I could write an essay about how much I love this game.

And as for forgotten masterpieces, Smash and us dedicated fans have ensured that the Mother franchise will never be forgotten. It was because of us that EarthBound (and as of a few days ago, EarthBound Beginnings) came to the Virtual Console and I also feel we have a good shot at a Mother 3 localization for the Wii U Virtual Console.

I meant as a whole to the world. If I walked up to my friends, probably 90% of them wouldn't know what EarthBound is. But ya, I see what you're getting at.

The setting of the game is probably one of its best features. And I'd rather listen to the music in that game then the "music" that people my age like. Don't get me wrong, there's some good stuff out there nowadays but most of it is...just...ugh.

 

[Pazzo.]

Making Shaky's main one of the best characters in the game has to be one of the most dangerous moves nintendo has ever done before.

Dangerous for some...

But more delicious than victory for me.

 

[MintyBreeze]

Now, I may have heard wrong, but wasn't Ness much worse in previous games? For any veterans out there, is that true, and how has Ness improved?

 

[Manbeartigerphoenix]

Ness was okay (pun intended) in 64. He was a little different from the rest of the games, he had some different aerials and PKT2 traveled as far as Lucas' does. He didn't have a lot of deadly combos like most of the cast did but he had some solid ones, he was also the best shield breaker in that game too. He was mainly held back by his awful range (his fair and dash attack were just palm attacks without the pk sparks they have today) and very gimpable recovery, even more so since there were no air dodges in 64 and Ness had djc which meant he couldn't use rising aerials to attempt to defend his return. One little side note is that this game also had Ness' yoyos at his strongest, both being very reliable kill moves.

Ness in Melee was what he is now after he got reworked from 64, he finally got some pk sparks and stuff. However Ness was simply at his weakest here in a game where a lot of the cast were at their strongest (Shiek and Marth simply annihilate Ness). Ness got a bit of buff on range, but his 64 weaknesses were still very present.

Ness in Brawl got some needed buffs from Melee, but one major stupid thing held him back and that was grab release bs. What this meant is that Ness (and Lucas) had 10 extra frames of vulnerability after released from a grab, which was enough time for most of the cast to get a free dtlit/dsmash on him or in the worst case infinite grab releases from Marth or DK. Since Brawl was a defensive game that rewarded very little to aggressive characters unless you had some sort of cheese (like chain grabs or being MK), Ness did not fare too well.

 

[MintyBreeze]

Oh, so for the most part, Ness was just... Somewhere in the middle? It seems to be that from what you said, he was limited by the mechanics of each individual game. Smash 64 is combo based, I know that. So... Ness has never been particularly bad, he just didn't quite stand out among the roster?

In my experience as a Smasher, which has mostly been casual, Ness just seemed weird to me, and to pick. His recovery is weird, I didn't know exactly which game he was from, and to top it off, Lucas in Brawl came from the same series I had no knowledge about. Since I've heard a few people knocking Ness even now, just saying that he's a special attack spammer, maybe it's also that people don't have much knowledge about the character? That's at least the case with R.O.B or Charizard, I think, who are mostly known for only a few things but receive little recognition otherwise.

 

[ilysm]

Well, no.

In 64, most everyone on the cast is viable. Ness's recovery is exploitable and his range is nonexistent. But he has a threatening combo game with his dair finisher, good mobility options with his DJC and the Nesslevator, and some excellent shield break and pressure options. So he's not great compared to the rest of the cast, but the entire cast is pretty viable.

In Melee, Ness was one of the flat-out worst in the entire game (ahead of Bowser, Pichu, and Kirby). His flaws are really, REALLY apparent when you play him in that game. His lack of approach, sluggishness, nonexistent recovery, subpar frame data, underwhelming moves, and even the lack of ability to perform rising aerials hurt. Do not misunderstand; in Melee, he was bad bad bad.

In Brawl, Ness had some good points, but the ability that some very commonly used characters had to get guaranteed followups on him out of any grab and also do straight zero-deaths in some cases, combined with how generally overwhelming the best and oft-used characters in that game were, really held him back.

In Smash 4, he's benefited from a changed engine and changed effects on his PSI-based attacks (which allows for some of his good combos), and subtle buffs to his recovery as well as universal changes to his kill options that make them much more viable. Plus all of the crazy buffs that PKT1 received, which make it a ridiculously good move. He's generally a little quicker, a little slipperier, hits a bit harder, and is much, MUCH better at killing (which was always his strength to begin with). He still has the old weaknesses (poor neutral, bad approach, exploitable recovery) but the tools he has in return work properly now. In other games they did not.

 

[ROBnWatch]

Oh, so for the most part, Ness was just... Somewhere in the middle? It seems to be that from what you said, he was limited by the mechanics of each individual game. Smash 64 is combo based, I know that. So... Ness has never been particularly bad, he just didn't quite stand out among the roster?

In my experience as a Smasher, which has mostly been casual, Ness just seemed weird to me, and to pick. His recovery is weird, I didn't know exactly which game he was from, and to top it off, Lucas in Brawl came from the same series I had no knowledge about. Since I've heard a few people knocking Ness even now, just saying that he's a special attack spammer, maybe it's also that people don't have much knowledge about the character? That's at least the case with R.O.B or Charizard, I think, who are mostly known for only a few things but receive little recognition otherwise.

-__-

Right here you know. Favorite two characters in my username. No need to say anything bad about R.O.B., not like he's one of those two characters...

 

[MintyBreeze]

-__-

Right here you know. Favorite two characters in my username. No need to say anything bad about R.O.B., not like he's one of those two characters...

Oh, sorry, I didn't watch my tone... I meant that in a bad way, as in, they're known for only a few things and generally have the rest shrouded in mystery; which is bad for any character. I play both of them, and think they need to be recognized in general, that's what I meant in that post. It's just that lots of people perceive entire characters as reliant on some moves, when there's really more to it than that. (Points to mains list in profile)

Well, no.

Oh, so Ness was always a bit underwhelming... Either because he didn't particularly seem to stand out, just not being viable, or being hindered by the characters most people used? While I don't have much to say about Smash 64 or Melee, thank you for informing me anyways. I know virtually nothing about their mechanics, let alone their characters.

In Brawl, then, he was just outclassed by options and characters people saw as better... That seems fairly accurate to me. I couldn't ever seem to use him very well compared to the rest of the cast, and while I wasn't ever skilled at the game back then, that might also be a part of it. Maybe Brawl just had more dominant options that stood out compared to the rest of the series.

Generally, then, Ness would be at the best he's ever been as a character in Smash 4...? With that being the case, do you think more people recognize him like that, or is he still just seen as "meh", like he'd probably be in the other games? In Smash 4, even with all of the attention newcomers are getting, neglected veterans like Charizard, Zelda, Bowser... have finally got some attention from Nintendo, and after that, by the community. I don't think that's the case with Ness, though, because he has a bad reputation here.

 

[ROBnWatch]

Oh, sorry, I didn't watch my tone... I meant that in a bad way, as in, they're known for only a few things and generally have the rest shrouded in mystery; which is bad for any character. I play both of them, and think they need to be recognized in general, that's what I meant in that post. It's just that lots of people perceive entire characters as reliant on some moves, when there's really more to it than that. (Points to mains list in profile)

OK, cool. Ya... R.O.B. is a bit... forgotten. But I think he's got a chance at shining in the competitive scene this time around! I think he might be at and/or a bit lower than Ness' level.

 

[Earthbound360]

Ness was meh in the other games. But oddly enough, he had some better moves in Brawl. He got direct nerfs to his moves in Smash 4, but the universal changes helped him a lot.

 

[Noa.]

This is the first time he's been a real contender in smash.

 

[MintyBreeze]

Besides Ness, do you think that characters who just didn't hold up in the previous games, like he didn't, have been made more viable in this game? I know that's the case for Bowser, at least. It's a general balance question.

 

[Noa.]

Bowser has always been pretty bad, and is still pretty bad in this game. I suppose he's better, but he's not much better by a significant amount.

Sonic was mid tier in brawl and is high tier now.

This might be the first time Luigi, Mario, and Yoshi are also high tier. But I confess I know very little about 64.

 

[SuperTorn]

Day 5: still dont have Ryu and Roy

 

[Luco]

So excited to get the latest patch and DLC characters and try them all out. Ryu sounds uber technical, which, knowing me, will make me shy away from him at first and then I'll probably try and get stuck into him and do as much as I can. Roy will be fun, for some reason I just like Roy a lot, so I'm quite excited to try him out. :D

On the other hand, LUCAS HAS A 0-DEATH COMBO THAT'S GONNA GET PATCHED OUT WEEEE and was it just me or does Dair set up for Dtilt lock again? I probably didn't see it right. Anyway, I'll check it on the Lucas thread when I get him in a few days.

And I'm really happy that Ness was not only not nerfed but actually buffed. I know that might anger a lot of people but this makes our MU against Luigi/Mario/etc even better. <3

I can't wait to see where everyone ends up on everybody's tier lists. Really excited to see what everyone else's changes were too!

 

[ROBnWatch]

So excited to get the latest patch and DLC characters and try them all out. Ryu sounds uber technical, which, knowing me, will make me shy away from him at first and then I'll probably try and get stuck into him and do as much as I can. Roy will be fun, for some reason I just like Roy a lot, so I'm quite excited to try him out. :D

On the other hand, LUCAS HAS A 0-DEATH COMBO THAT'S GONNA GET PATCHED OUT WEEEE and was it just me or does Dair set up for Dtilt lock again? I probably didn't see it right. Anyway, I'll check it on the Lucas thread when I get him in a few days.

And I'm really happy that Ness was not only not nerfed but actually buffed. I know that might anger a lot of people but this makes our MU against Luigi/Mario/etc even better. <3

I can't wait to see where everyone ends up on everybody's tier lists. Really excited to see what everyone else's changes were too!

I want to make a personal tier list myself but I can't because the DLC characters JUST KEEP COMING!!! I'd have to update it way too often!

 

[ilysm]

@ Luco According to voices on the Lucas boards the 0-death requires consistent DI reads and is rarely worth going for over more consistent follow ups. Also dair is really inconsistent. And yeah, I'm glad that magnet was buffed! This is gonna make Luigi a bit easier on me in particular, even if he is still my least favorite to play. And Lucas is a ton of fun but I'm co maining the two kids. No way I'd ever drop Ness.

 

[Manbeartigerphoenix]

After finally trying out Lucas I feel that he is just a slightly better Brawl Lucas, though to be fair I don't really play a good Lucas so my opinion may be invalid. His stick seems to be worse though, which is disappointing since it was the one thing I preferred on Lucas over Ness.

Also Lucas can finally zair, snake zairs are awesome lol.

 

[Deleted member]

I feel like I'm much better with Ness than I am with Lucas which is why Lucas is just a secondary of mine for now.
Maybe it takes time getting used to? Because I know it took me a while to be decent with Ness.

 

[Manbeartigerphoenix]

I just prefer Ness since I like playing aggressive, Lucas has a more defensive playstyle with his keep away game and how his PKF works.

 

[Luco]

Yeah Lucas has always been like that. SH PK Fires for daysssss!

 

[ROBnWatch]

SH PK Fire???

Oh... *Facepalm*

Nevermind... Short Hop PK Fire.

 

[Lochy]

I prefer Ness over Lucas. In this game I feel Ness has the upperhand for a couple of reasons.
I would still like to have Lucas to cover up some of Ness' bad match ups.

 

[Luco]

I'm kinda secretly hoping Lucas does better in the MU, but realistically I'm not sure he'll do better in any of 's other bad MUs, his somewhat one-dimensional approach may give him issues against the top tiers.

Come to think of it, I wonder how the Lucas v Ness MU will play out now. Hopefully nothing more extreme than a +/-1

 

[Noa.]

I could see Lucas being better against Luigi.

 

[MintyBreeze]

We should all go over to the Lucas boards and give them a bit of a helping hand with their MU threads, no?

 

[Diamond Octobot]

We should all go over to the Lucas boards and give them a bit of a helping hand with their MU threads, no?

I approve of this idea, althrough I won't be able to help much since I played much more with

 

[MintyBreeze]

Every bit and step in the right direction helps. I'll confess that I haven't bought the new DLC, but still, I'd be happy to help with the format of the threads.

Edit: Besides, the MU thread hasn't even come out. It can be changed. :D

 

[SuperTorn]

Finally got Roy and Ryu today, I also got EarthBound: Beginnings can't wait to play it!

 

[Pazzo.]

I don't have WiFi set up for my house... And most likely will not for a while... So no Lucas for me.

Not that I plan on playing him anyway. My brother plays Him, and I play Ness...

 

[Earthbound360]

I like Lucas and all, but there's a few things that bother me about him.

The fact that they didn't give him a faster dash attack means he can't follow up mid ranged pokes with PKF all that well. That's be fine if he had a quick usmash OR a quick grab, but geez he has neither.

And don't even get me started with that grab. Ugh, it's such a tease.. His throws are SO good... but the grab to intiate them is just awful -_-

On top of that, his aerials are very awkward with their hitboxes compared to Ness, and his PKT got SO laggy.

His keepaway is delightfully annoying though. And his Freeze got SO much better and less laggy. It's actually a viable full screen projectile now. I can see Lucas having a good matchup against Luigi for the same reasons Gunner does.