The State of Fire Emblem Characters and what can change?

[Folt]

Really, the only change I would've made would've been 4 years ago: Put in Azura instead of Corrin. Then we can get Edelgard in DLC and fill up the weapon triangle.

I get that Corrin is unique but I think Azura would've added so much more to the Fire Emblem selection as a whole: spears, water-bending, songs and a non-clone, non-alt female character. And the two basically share Fates' plot so it's harder to argue which is actually more important imo. But Corn is here now, and I'm not about to cut them.

I love FE (it's probably my second favorite Ninty franchise after Mario) but I really feel like the way it has been represented as turned a lot of people off because everyone looks very similar at a glance, half of the fight the same way and all of them use a sword the majority of the time. It's not what FE deserves.

I think FE gets as many characters as it does because it's games translate so well to Smash, much like the adventure games in Smash. Unlike those games though (the Zeldas and Metroids), Fire Emblem has an insane cast of popular characters due to the massive casts in each game that rotate out each time. People want FE characters because there are so many cool ones left and the pool of characters will never be empty.

Actually, arguing for Azura over Corrin is harder than Robin over Chrom. Robin actually has a stint in the story where he's the main protagonist (the arc where you deal with Validar for good), but Corrin stays as the protagonist throughout the whole of Fates and most of Azura's importance comes from her connection to Valla with the two main stories focusing more on the Hoshido/Nohr conflict and the fallout of Corrin's choice for the opposing kingdom.

 

[Nah]

Lyn is much more known for her Sword skill than her Bow skill. She also only gets Bows upon promotion and that clashes with how FE characters are normally built.

Yes, but why not change things up a bit? FE's rep is all sword users right now, where's the fun in adding yet another sword? It's not like I'm suggesting she use a lance or a tome or something. I think that people wouldn't care much that she's using a bow instead of a sword in the face of her being playable.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "that clashes with how FE character are normally built" though

 

[Quetzal77]

Current FE roster: Marth, Ike, Roy, Robin, Lucina, Corrin, Chrom

Most popular FE characters as per Heroes: Ike, Lyn, Roy, Lucina, Hector, Celica, Ephraim, Veronica

I think we can all agree Marth should be in Smash. Roy is not inherently bad since he was first a clone of Marth and clearly became more popular than him after the fact. Ike is popular both for FE and Smash, even if his games weren't huge sellers they're considered some of the best in the series. Up to Brawl, we were doing fine.

In Smash 4 is where Sakurai went overboard. Robin was a good pick and enough representation for Awakening. If he saw Lucina as necessary she would have been much better saved for DLC as a new character with sword/lance. Going strictly by popularity then she also gets a spot.

In Ultimate it really should have been Lyn as a new fighter and Celica as a Robin echo.

This leaves us with: Marth, Ike, Roy, Robin, Lucina (non-echo), Lyn, Celica. Already a much better, more diverse roster.

An even better one would be something like Marth, Ike, Roy, Robin, Azura, Lyn, Celica, Edelgard.

Tbh even though people claim Sakurai has FE bias, I see the roster, stage selection, and even music selection as lacking compared to what I know it could be.

 

[Folt]

Yes, but why not change things up a bit? FE's rep is all sword users right now, where's the fun in adding yet another sword? It's not like I'm suggesting she use a lance or a tome or something. I think that people wouldn't care much that she's using a bow instead of a sword in the face of her being playable.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "that clashes with how FE character are normally built" though

Look at Roy, Ike, Robin, Corrin, etc. heck, even Chrom and Lucina: They all use the weapon(s) they get through their base class. For Ike, Chrom, and Lucina, that means they get stuck with the sword (Marth and Roy only had the sword whether promoted or unpromoted) while Robin and Corrin who get Tomes and Dragonstones respectively in their unpromoted class get to use the tomes and dragonstones (Robin being built around his magic, while Corrin incorporating dragon transformations into his swordstyle; no staves or tomes for Corrin though). Lyn by default would be stuck with Swords because Swords is the only thing she can use in her unpromoted class.

It seems like a deliberate move on Sakurai's part and I don't blame him: people are going to refer to Ike, Chrom, Lucina, etc. as primarily swordsmen since that's their only weapon by default, and thus their associated weapon. This affects stuff like how they get portrayed in various media (like how the normal versions of Lyn, Ike, Chrom, etc. wield only swords in Heroes or how Chrom and Lucina wield Swords and use the same moveset in FE Warriors) and so if Lyn is to be a Smash fighter, she'll be required to exclusively wield a sword. And of course, the inclination to show Robin as a spellcaster tinged his portrayal to be more of a magic user than a swordswinger which is reflected in Robin's moveset (while the majority of his moves use a sword, a lot of his sword swings are unconventional and basic to the point of showing a lack of familiarity, with his most powerful sword attacks being decent only because he's using the magic properties of the magical Levin Sword to make them more dangerous than they actually are) while Corrin was shown to be equally proficient with both his dragon transformation attacks and his sword.

It also seems like IntSys is kind of aware of this because every modern FE starting with Awakening has at least one of the main protagonists start with more weapon types than just a sword (meaning future unique Smash additions after Awakening will likely avoid the sword-exclusive issue).

 

[MacDaddyNook]

Well Cam Clarke did voice Leonardo in the 87 series

Exactly. I'm a sucker for VAs from my youth, so having Mr. Clarke voice Corrin made me grin from ear to ear.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

Honestly FE isn’t all just swordsmen because Robin uses tomes and durability and Corrin uses manakete style transformations and kind of lance like moves, people just scapegoat FE because it’s the franchise that is being pushed. Trust me the next unique FE newcomer will have an axe or a lance or something. It’s gonna be Edelgard.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMm0pzCuKO4
(WARNING!!! PROFANITY!!!)
*enough said.
There were too many in Smash 4. Echo fighters...ok. But Every FE character except Marth and Robin have been added to try to appeal to the audience and make Fire Emblem look better, not because many people wanted them.
Roy: He was added in Melee because Marth was an odd one out, being the only Japanese speaking character. Note that both characters were part of Smash before Fire Emblem even left Japan, so people still had no clue who they were.
Ike: He was added and replaced Roy because only he spoke English, so it would "appeal" more.
Robin: He used Magic and focused on not overusing attacks. It seemed unique to Sakurai, so they put him in.
Lucina: She was supposed to be a Marth skin. But they had ""Extra time", so they mad her a clone fighter.
Roy (DLC): They added him because they wanted to appeal to nostalgic Melee fans. Also, they wanted to increase Fire Emblem's popularity.
Corrin: S/he was only added Literally to advertise for her own game and not because anyone actually wanted them. (Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVCTz1S04QA)
Also Fire Emblem isn't even as popular as nintendo's other first parties that have been given the finger by Fire Emblem characters.

"Why would you add that character? Why not a fire emblem character? If you don't increase the FE roster size, you're discriminating against the series because it's too small"
Yep that's been the issue since 2001. Don't believe me? Sakurai himself literally said there are too many.

I’d say cut Corrin and Lucina to keep people from complaining about overrepresentation (I’d say Robin too since imo his moveset was terribly executed but some might appreciate the variety). Then put Lyn in with a completely unique moveset (preferably not with a Counter) so that the people who complain about swordfighters shut up . That’d leave us with.
Marth - Unique moveset
Roy - Semiclone
Ike - Unique moveset
Robin(?) - Unique moveset
Chrom - Semiclone (let’s not kid ourselves, he’s not really an Echo)
Lyn - Unique moveset

Then you have the most popular characters represented, so the FE fanbase can’t complain. You have 3-4 unique movesets, so people can’t complain about repetition. Yet it’s still at a manageable 6 characters.

I kind of agree. Cut Corrin, but keep echoes. I like echoes. I also want Lyn. Because she's cool, and no counter.

I'm fine with the current FE roster. Here are my thoughts.

- If they wanted or needed to represent Fire Emblem, Marth would be the first and best choice. He starred in the first game of franchise, and afterwards he went on to make more appearances including a sequel, a remake of the original, a remake of the sequel, and other games like Fire Emblem Warriors and Fire Emblem Heroes.
- At the time, Sakurai's decision to include Roy in Melee purely to promote his upcoming game was a fair choice. In my opinion, he should've stayed cut since Brawl, but if he's going to stay, he might as well have a completely original moveset, instead of being a semi-clone.
- Ike's a different story. He starred in two games, both of which were released outside of Japan, unlike Roy. He's also a bit more different than Marth than Roy is. For example, Ike wasn't born in nobility like Marth and Roy and many of the other FE lords were. His personality's rather different too.
- Awakening, in all of its self-inserting, waifu-marriaging glory, is what saved the Fire Emblem franchise. Although it was meant to be the final installment in the series, its sales proved that finishing the franchise off here would be a bad move. And seeing how Chrom was the star of the show in Awakening, it'd make sense for him to be included in Smash. But like Sakurai said during Robin and Lucina's reveal, Robin had more potential than Chrom. Him being an Echo Fighter of Roy doesn't help with the "too many FE/sword users" case either.
:ultrobin- Robin, at the time of Awakening's release, wasn't exactly so popular. He was seen more as a self-insert character than as his own character. Sure, his base Tactician class allowed him to wield both swords and anima tomes, but that didn't change much in his popularity. I'd even go so far as to say that Chrom and Lucina were more popular than him. But he still makes a fine addition to the Fire Emblem franchise, demonstrating the series' weapon durability mechanic.
- Ah yes, Lucina. The one everybody likes to complain about when it comes to Fire Emblem characters, especially in Smash. She was originally meant as an alternate costume for Marth, but Master Hero Sack of Rye decided to give her own spot as a clone of him. She had potential, I'll admit. She could've represented Awakening's child inheritance mechanic. Her moves could've been based off the variety of skills in Awakening, for example. But so long as she remains in Smash as a Marth clone, the topic of "too many FE/sword users" will be frequently brought up within the Smash community.
- Like Roy, he was included to promote his upcoming game, but joined Smash with a completely original moveset, while representing the Manakete/shapeshifting races of Fire Emblem. He also makes a fine addition.

The two major problems with the Fire Emblem characters is that:

1. There aren't enough non-sword user Lords in Fire Emblem. Hence why all of the current FE roster uses swords in some way, shape, or form.
2. Many of them are too similar to Marth. Roy comes from the GBA era of Fire Emblem, which has their own animations to choose from. And Chrom and Lucina comes from the 3DS era of Fire Emblem, which also has their own animations to choose from. Point being? There's a lot of source material to choose from their respective home games in order to create their moveset, but Sakurai chooses not to do so.

So if these two problems were solved, there wouldn't be as much discourse over Fire Emblem characters in Smash as there is now.

I partially disagree. Fighters should not be included to increase popularity. That's thinking about sales, not the fans. And Melee was released before Fire Emblem left Japan, so it was a bad idea to begin with.
If you ask me, I like Marth and Ike being in the Game, alongside Robin. That's it. But they should at least try to give them each more unique weapons to use.

I think the current roster of Fire emblem Characters is fine. though I will concede that "A whole bunch of swordies in a series with a whole lotta unique styles" is a very valid complaint. As is lack of Women fighters too since FE has some very popular and notable Female characters who more than deserve to be in smash.

Yes. There are a lot of Fire emblem characters. But saying there's too many as an argument is absurd considering how many Pokemon, Mario and Zelda reps there are. And while the lack of mechanical diversity between the many characters is valid, it's not as solid as an argument as people think. Like there is a grand total of 4 Unique fighters (Marth, Ike, Robin, Corrin) 2 Semi Clones (Roy and Chrom. Yes i'm counting chrom as a semi clone) and 1 Full blooded clone in Lucina. This...really isn't as non-diverse as people like to think it is. Especially When the mario series had numerous clones and semi clones, as have the zelda series, pokemon (Pikachu/Pichu), Mother, Star fox and etcetera.

The thing is that Fire emblem just really lends itself to easy echo fighters. A lot of the main characters just tend to use swords, and this is a result of the general marketability and popularity of swords. The games where the Main characters don't use swords aren't really all that popular. While having Ephraim in smash would be cool and unique, The Sacred Stone's isn't really an important stepping stone in FE's history. And while I dearly want Micaiah in smash, People more clearly remember Ike from Radiant Dawn. And Smash is above all a game about celebrating nintendo's gaming series. You don't celebrate a series by putting in side characters, you celebrate it by putting the most popular main characters of the series from the games that were poignant in the history of the series. In Fire emblem's case, this means a lot of Sword characters because a lot of the most important and popular characters in the series wield swords.

The solution to this over saturation of Fire emblem swordfighters in smash isn't really picking less popular or more niche characters in the series, but waiting for the Fire emblem games themselves to include more diverse main characters in the games, which they are slowly doing! So eventually we'll probably see some more unique Fire emblem fighters.

But at the end of the day, the current cast is a pretty good representation of the history of fire emblem. Marth, the original, Roy, The gameboy Era, Ike from the gamecube and Wii games, The awakening trio from the game that literally saved Fire emblem's life, and corrin from the game that proved that awakening wasn't a fluke and that FE was really back.

And as for the Lyn thing: Thing is, people really didn't know how popular Lyn was until relatively recently. So while she (Or hector!) would be better GBA Reps than Roy, Roy also had a smash veteran status boosted popularity thing going on. Roy is pretty liked by smash people who haven't played Fire emblem! I mean, look at all the "Where's roy?" During brawl and Smash 4. I have little doubt that In case of a new Smash game, Lyn is probably on the shortlist for a slot and rightfully so!

The reason why Zelda, Pokemon and Mario have lots of fighters is because they're popular and they're gaming icons. Fire emblem is a turn-based combat, anime style RPG, so it already features things a lot of other games already have. FE never left Japan until 2003, 13 years after its debut. It's sales are measured in the tens of thousands, instead of 100k's or millions. The series doesn't have a progressive history. FE's excuse "we're a small series, you can't ditch us", backed alongside the fans who will scream "SAKURAI BIAS!" at most other reasonable choices is the reason why it gets so much hate. FE has been borrowing slots that could have, would have, and frankly, should gone to another series that have been taking the brunt for FE's undiverse roster.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

My favorite part of this thread is that people will complain about how Fire Emblem is not repped the way they want, bash the characters, and they still are going to buy Ultimate day one, and most likely get any Fire Emblem dlc.

 

[JarBear]

I have been thinking about a new rebooted Smash that has a smaller roster to make BIG changes. The question is, not just for Fire Emblem, but how about the other franchises that get some trimming? Focusing on Fire Emblem: Should it be the "main" characters from certain Fire Emblem games? It's hard to say. I will say I am not under the argument of "This Fire Emblem stole "X" from "Y" Franchise's slot!" That is an invalid argument, since this is all up to Sakurai. Plus it is just silly to be honest.

Regardless, I can see a reduction to ALL franchises to some extent if there is this kind of a reboot. One remedy I can see, at least focusing on Fire Emblem again, could be the use of these Echo fighters, or for the sake of reducing "slots" would be to "make" certain charactesr have palette swatches like Bowser Jr. and the Koopalings. This way, there can be a little more variety of different kinds of Fire emblem fighters. So you could have your ax users, arches, spears, etc. But the roster is smaller, but has variety of different "characters" for each role.

 

[Folt]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMm0pzCuKO4
(WARNING!!! PROFANITY!!!)
*enough said.
There were too many in Smash 4. Echo fighters...ok. But Every FE character except Marth and Robin have been added to try to appeal to the audience and make Fire Emblem look better, not because many people wanted them.
Roy: He was added in Melee because Marth was an odd one out, being the only Japanese speaking character. Note that both characters were part of Smash before Fire Emblem even left Japan, so people still had no clue who they were.
Ike: He was added and replaced Roy because only he spoke English, so it would "appeal" more.
Robin: He used Magic and focused on not overusing attacks. It seemed unique to Sakurai, so they put him in.
Lucina: She was supposed to be a Marth skin. But they had ""Extra time", so they mad her a clone fighter.
Roy (DLC): They added him because they wanted to appeal to nostalgic Melee fans. Also, they wanted to increase Fire Emblem's popularity.
Corrin: S/he was only added Literally to advertise for her own game and not because anyone actually wanted them. (Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVCTz1S04QA)
Also Fire Emblem isn't even as popular as nintendo's other first parties that have been given the finger by Fire Emblem characters.

"Why would you add that character? Why not a fire emblem character? If you don't increase the FE roster size, you're discriminating against the series because it's too small"
Yep that's been the issue since 2001. Don't believe me? Sakurai himself literally said there are too many.

The reason why Zelda, Pokemon and Mario have lots of fighters is because they're popular and they're gaming icons. Fire emblem is a turn-based combat, anime style RPG, so it already features things a lot of other games already have. FE never left Japan until 2003, 13 years after its debut. It's sales are measured in the tens of thousands, instead of 100k's or millions. The series doesn't have a progressive history. FE's excuse "we're a small series, you can't ditch us", backed alongside the fans who will scream "SAKURAI BIAS!" at most other reasonable choices is the reason why it gets so much hate. FE has been borrowing slots that could have, would have, and frankly, should gone to another series that have been taking the brunt for FE's undiverse roster.

lmao Fire Emblem sales has been counted in the 100ks since forever, and Awakening added even more on top of that, setting the path for Fire Emblem to bat with the top contenders. It's one of the few Nintendo franchises the last few years that has gotten more popular instead of less popular.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

lmao Fire Emblem sales has been counted in the 100ks since forever, and Awakening added even more on top of that, setting the path for Fire Emblem to bat with the top contenders. It's one of the few Nintendo franchises the last few years that has gotten more popular instead of less popular.

Idk I only see 10k's and 100k's, or "0.1/0.01m" (Which is the same). But it doesn't matter. Most FE games struggle to breach 1m sales and they only come out with one every couple of years. It's not like in the last 8 or so years the series has sold 20m units and has become one of Nintendo's proudest series and a major gaming icon that future developers will look back to and take inspiration from.

 

[TrueDarkAce]

Idk I only see 10k's and 100k's, or "0.1/0.01m" (Which is the same). But it doesn't matter. Most FE games struggle to breach 1m sales and they only come out with one every couple of years. It's not like in the last 8 or so years the series has sold 20m units and has become one of Nintendo's proudest series and a major gaming icon that future developers will look back to and take inspiration from.

compared to what they were selling pre-awakening the series is selling like hot cakes now. Plus with the millions if not billions of dollars on the mobile game. So to say that it is one of Nintendo's biggest money makers wouldn't be stretching the truth.

 

[Folt]

Idk I only see 10k's and 100k's, or "0.1/0.01m" (Which is the same). But it doesn't matter. Most FE games struggle to breach 1m sales and they only come out with one every couple of years. It's not like in the last 8 or so years the series has sold 20m units and has become one of Nintendo's proudest series and a major gaming icon that future developers will look back to and take inspiration from.

Fire Emblem Awakening total sales and Fire Emblem Fates total sales are 1.9 million and 1.6 million respectively. Fire Emblem Heroes is also Nintendo's biggest moneymaker on mobile.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

compared to what they were selling pre-awakening the series is selling like hot cakes now. Plus with the millions if not billions of dollars on the mobile game. So to say that it is one of Nintendo's biggest money makers wouldn't be stretching the truth.

It's not that I disagree with you. FE is growing in popularity. Just simply not as much as other franchises. Looking at FE's past, it's easy to say that the series is popular. Compare it to Nintendo's more iconic series, that's a different story. Although plenty of people are satisfied with FE reps, that is mainly composed of FE fans. Outside of the FE perspective, the series gets more hate than any other 1st party for using smash to advertise for their games. It is a big money maker, just not as Nintendo's other series. If you look at the Switch, it's one of Nintendo's greatest achievements, thanks to other 1st parties and not FE.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgW0Mw3dg_c

Fire Emblem Awakening total sales and Fire Emblem Fates total sales are 1.9 million and 1.6 million respectively. Fire Emblem Heroes is also Nintendo's biggest moneymaker on mobile.

I said most games.
<2m sales is not impressive compared to Nintendo's other games, and certainly doesn't constitute this many semi-clone sword wielders in smash all from the same series. But yeah you're right. FEA and FEF weren't failures at all and I respect that. It's just that now it's time that we think about the games that have had to wait for their due time so FE could have theirs.

 

[TrueDarkAce]

If anything, FE deserves all the roster space it has. Heck, let's bring in more! Bring me Eirika, bring me Celica, bring me Alm, bring me Camilla, bring me Xander, and heck even Hector!

 

[Folt]

I said most games.
<2m sales is not impressive compared to Nintendo's other games, and certainly doesn't constitute this many semi-clone sword wielders in smash all from the same series. But yeah you're right. FEA and FEF weren't failures at all and I respect that. It's just that now it's time that we think about the games that have had to wait for their due time so FE could have theirs.

Or simply that FE has clawed it's way up to the level of those franchises while some of those other games aren't as relevant anymore.

If anything, FE deserves all the roster space it has. Heck, let's bring in more! Bring me Eirika, bring me Celica, bring me Alm, bring me Camilla, bring me Xander, and heck even Hector!

Xander would legit be interesting as a Smash fighter to me.

 

[TrueDarkAce]

Or simply that FE has clawed it's way up to the level of those franchises while some of those other games aren't as relevant anymore.


Xander would legit be interesting as a Smash fighter to me.

I know right? A darkness user that isn't Ganondorf would be really cool

 

[Folt]

I know right? A darkness user that isn't Ganondorf would be really cool

Also mounted which would be pretty neat. He'd probably need to be very heavy due to that hitbox size.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

Or simply that FE has clawed it's way up to the level of those franchises while some of those other games aren't as relevant anymore.

Please define "Clawed it's way up."
I'm not saying FE isn't popular at all. But if 1.9 million sales is it's best (which I hope it isn't, I want to like FE), 7 characters, 2 of them for the sake of a marketing stunt, is an insult to people who want characters form more popular series. Mario and Zelda got 0 representation from Odyssey and BotW in the roster, unless you could the new Link as a complete newcomer and cappy occasionally chowing up, and both games are the switch's system sellers. KSA has sold the same amount of units as awakening and it's still counting and it's easy to say that the developers could have done so much better with that game. People like other games that aren't FE.

I know right? A darkness user that isn't Ganondorf would be really cool

Yes thank you I like villains and a darkness user would be super cool
Please that would be the only FE character I would be ok with at this point
(and maybe Lyn)

 

[---]

I'm just going to re-post this:

Fire Emblem has always been polarizing. Even the most acclaimed games in the fandom right now, FE7/9, were hated back when they first came out by the original grassroots ROM community; because they weren't FE4. I won't hide my criticisms of Awakening/Fates, but I don't see myself as petty enough not to call out of fans both old & new; the same goes for you Pokemon Gen 1 lovers & haters.

I don't think people need to "accept" an 8th Fire Emblem character. It's pretty clear Sakurai has never particularly cared about representation and Ultimate seems to be doing nothing to show that he does. Granted I doubt a Three Houses character would be first on the DLC list, but if there is something interesting there it's a good bet he won't pass it up. Ex. The new battle animations with the large armies would make for a fun cinematic Final Smash.

Also FYI Sakurai is a big Fire Emblem fan. Re-read the Iwata Asks for Shadow Dragon. He arguably has the best inter-company relationship with Intelligent Systems; going to them multiple times for character advise and being allowed to use two of their characters before their games even released. Unlike with Kirby, he has shown no restraint when it comes to this particular franchise.

Celica as a Robin echo or a new stage/Assist Trophy continue to the be the only things that would excite me in regards to this series' inclusion. Chrom didn't do anything for me.

Even if there is a solid unique choice for a character that comes from Three Houses, I'm still skeptical about whoever it is exciting me, as it could be another Robin or Corrin situation. Interesting moveset, bland character.

 

[Folt]

Please define "Clawed it's way up."
I'm not saying FE isn't popular at all. But if 1.9 million sales is it's best (which I hope it isn't, I want to like FE), 7 characters, 2 of them for the sake of a marketing stunt, is an insult to people who want characters form more popular series. Mario and Zelda got 0 representation from Odyssey and BotW in the roster, unless you could the new Link as a complete newcomer and cappy occasionally chowing up, and both games are the switch's system sellers. KSA has sold the same amount of units as awakening and it's still counting and it's easy to say that the developers could have done so much better with that game. People like other games that aren't FE.

Cappy ocasionally showing up on Mario's cap and the current Link being taken from BOTW is more than adequate representation of those two games since the most important character from those games are already in. It's also more than enough to market those games: Mario and Zelda also have pretty much every important character + some non-major ones that they'd ever want to rep those series, only missing out on one or two reps to be pretty much perfect. Kinda like Fire Emblem actually.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

Cappy ocasionally showing up on Mario's cap and the current Link being taken from BOTW is more than adequate representation of those two games since the most important character from those games are already in. It's also more than enough to market those games: Mario and Zelda also have pretty much every important character + some non-major ones that they'd ever want to rep those series, only missing out on one or two reps to be pretty much perfect. Kinda like Fire Emblem actually.

I was hoping Link would use the sheikah slate and Mario would use cappy in their movesets and not be clones of before, but my hopes were misplaced.
I do agree with you. Mario and Zelda have adequate representation. 1 more newcomer for Zelda wouldn't bother me though, as long as it's a villain. FE has more than adequate representation, I agree with you. That's why I'm pointing out that now people want to see reps from series that have been skipped over for the ones named.

 

[Folt]

I was hoping Link would use the sheikah slate and Mario would use cappy in their movesets and not be clones of before, but my hopes were misplaced.
I do agree with you. Mario and Zelda have adequate representation. 1 more newcomer for Zelda wouldn't bother me though, as long as it's a villain. FE has more than adequate representation, I agree with you. That's why I'm pointing out that now people want to see reps from series that have been skipped over for the ones named.

You didn't even name a single series to fit that bill. If you're not gonna name anything, just accept that Fire Emblem is basically up to the task with the big boys.

(Also, Link does use the Sheikah Slate to blow up his bombs now.)

 

[Mogisthelioma]

I feel like Sakurai hasn't been hesitant to add FE characters because it's so easy and it feels nice to please a smaller audience. He's been hesitant to add Kirby/Mother characters becuase of his former position as the president of HAL and he's afraid people claiming Sakurai bias, which isn't fair to those series. That's why I'm saying it's time for smash's other franchises, not just the two I named, to be compensated for such a long drought.

 

[SvartWolf]

I'll say this tho, Lyn is hot but her color scheme is bland. I think I know why she really isn't in.

Uh... Lyn color scheme is probably my favorite part of her design ._.

people will complain about how Fire Emblem is not repped the way they want, bash the characters, and they still are going to buy Ultimate day one, and most lik

I don't see how this is bad? :s not because it doesn't have Lyn means im skippingthis wonderful game ._.

as for Fire Emblem, the only other character i really really wanted beside Lyn was Robin.. .and daaamn Sakurai delivered. so, im' not particulary salty with teh state of the series... (i still wish roy wopuld have some other cool fire mechanichs, and a fireball instead of side b).

as for Lyn though.. Unlike Chrom and Lucina, i don't think she could work as a marth based moveset. and regarding other axe users, there is a couple of interesting ways that you can make an axe character withouth being "just another sword".

As for Lucina and Chrom... I cant be mad at echoes... like literally cant. also wouldve loved that they were more akin to semiclones than echoes, but i wholeheartly understand the need to keep them echoes (and the closer posible from their original characters) still, Lucina could use some extra new animations though
Black Knight as an echo would also be pretty neat. Alm would also be cool as an echo... celica though i have my doubts, i think that a semiclone or hybrid character would work better, but that is way too far for an echo... although if echo would be allowed to have soem of the unused custom moves, i think that she could actually work with a slightly longer bronze sword and the fast thunder

 

[Mogisthelioma]

You didn't even name a single series to fit that bill. If you're not gonna name anything, just accept that Fire Emblem is basically up to the task with the big boys.

(Also, Link does use the Sheikah Slate to blow up his bombs now.)

Kirby was skipped over in sm4sh. So was DK. People wanted a Mother rep and Ninten was popular, and wasn't an issue since we already had so many clones and semi clones. Zelda got no new characters, which made it lag behind Mario, Pokemon and FE. Even in ultimate Young Link is just another clone, we want to see another moveset come from the series. Metroid was skipped. Wolf was removed. So was snake, although it was for a decent reason that time.
In smash 4 so many characters and series got the finger for clones and "underrepresented" series. How can anyone still be unhappy with the size of the FE roster.

And speaking of link I was hoping he would use stasis plus as his side b and revali's gale as his up b.

 

[Gorda]

Honestly, it'd be better if they were fighters other than all swordfighters.

 

[Folt]

I feel like Sakurai hasn't been hesitant to add FE characters because it's so easy and it feels nice to please a smaller audience. He's been hesitant to add Kirby/Mother characters becuase of his former position as the president of HAL and he's afraid people claiming Sakurai bias, which isn't fair to those series. That's why I'm saying it's time for smash's other franchises, not just the two I named, to be compensated for such a long drought.

Kirby is the only series that I feel needs a new rep (I want Magolor), but Mother is practically dead and is already repped fairly well by Ness and Lucas on their own. It's also kind of hard to say that Kirby objectively needs a new rep because all three characters that are super-important and relevant to that franchise is already in.

It's kind of a problem in that every franchise feels pretty much adequately repped now with some exceptions so any more reps in any franchise is essentially gravy.

Kirby was skipped over in sm4sh. So was DK. People wanted a Mother rep and Ninten was popular, and wasn't an issue since we already had so many clones and semi clones. Zelda got no new characters, which made it lag behind Mario, Pokemon and FE. Even in ultimate Young Link is just another clone, we want to see another moveset come from the series. Metroid was skipped. Wolf was removed. So was snake, although it was for a decent reason that time.
In smash 4 so many characters and series got the finger for clones and "underrepresented" series. How can anyone still be unhappy with the size of the FE roster.

And speaking of link I was hoping he would use stasis plus as his side b and revali's gale as his up b.

Dude, they're not going to drastically change a character's moveset.

Also, Zelda in Sm4sh is pretty much well repped, with the most important characters and one relevant to Smash. Metroid and Star Fox at that point are pretty much series I'd tag as less relevant than Fire Emblem at that point in time, so skipping a rep (and honestly, few characters from those series can work as playables) is not something I'd blame Sakurai for doing. And see above for my thoughts on Kirby and Mother.

 

[Fane]

Dude, they're not going to drastically change a character's moveset.

They did with Pit from Brawl > Sm4sh.

It's not an impossibility, and imo should've happened with the return of Young Link.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

Kirby is the only series that I feel needs a new rep (I want Magolor), but Mother is practically dead and is already repped fairly well by Ness and Lucas on their own. It's also kind of hard to say that Kirby objectively needs a new rep because all three characters that are super-important and relevant to that franchise is already in.

It's kind of a problem in that every franchise feels pretty much adequately repped now with some exceptions so any more reps in any franchise is essentially gravy.


Dude, they're not going to drastically change a character's moveset.

Also, Zelda in Sm4sh is pretty much well repped, with the most important characters and one relevant to Smash. Metroid and Star Fox at that point are pretty much series I'd tag as less relevant than Fire Emblem at that point in time, so skipping a rep (and honestly, few characters from those series can work as playables) is not something I'd blame Sakurai for doing. And see above for my thoughts on Kirby and Mother.

YES!! And here I was thinking I was the only person on earth who wanted Magolor!
Bandana dee and Marx were also popular choices for smash 4.
I agree that Zelda had small relevancy at the time since the only major titles we got were remakes. But now things are different and I want something more than Link, but now he's young.
Earthbound/Mother concluded itself, they never stopped making games because it was unpopular. It's why authors stop writing books (unless you're Rick Riordan), the story was over. People still like Mother, so maybe Ninten as an echo fighter of Ness wouldn't be bad.

 

[Folt]

They did with Pit from Brawl > Sm4sh.

It's not an impossibility, and imo should've happened with the return of Young Link.

I don't think that was drastic as much as noticeably.

YES!! And here I was thinking I was the only person on earth who wanted Magolor!
Bandana dee and Marx were also popular choices for smash 4.
I agree that Zelda had small relevancy at the time since the only major titles we got were remakes. But now things are different and I want something more than Link, but now he's young.
Earthbound/Mother concluded itself, they never stopped making games because it was unpopular. It's why authors stop writing books (unless you're Rick Riordan), the story was over. People still like Mother, so maybe Ninten as an echo fighter of Ness wouldn't be bad.

About the only rep I'd see Zelda get would be Impa as an echo of Sheik. The Zelda cast otherwise has every character important to be in.

So it did. And I guess that's why I think Mother is pretty adequately repped, because we're not going to get any more games in that series. Yet, we have the two most iconic Mother protagonists which makes that cast pretty much perfect.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

smileMasky Did you post this question anywhere else? This thread has gotten off track, and there weren't that many interesting responses to begin with.

 

[smileMasky]

smileMasky Did you post this question anywhere else? This thread has gotten off track, and there weren't that many interesting responses to begin with.

no I have not but if any one else wants to they can.

 

[Quetzal77]

My favorite part of this thread is that people will complain about how Fire Emblem is not repped the way they want, bash the characters, and they still are going to buy Ultimate day one, and most likely get any Fire Emblem dlc.

Smash is much more than the FE reps, I'm not going to skip it just because it has a few characters I don't like instead of ones I do. I'll just keep playing Marth, Ike, Roy, and Robin and ignore the others. As for FE DLC, I personally didn't get Corrin for Smash U since I don't like him. I'm sure I wasn't the only one that skipped over him.

 

[smileMasky]

I don't hate the FE reps i just wish they would have explored a little bit more. heck what if they gave them a dash instead of a run, you know like a set distance dash? but I think that might just break the characters and the meta in general.

 

[Fane]

I don't think that was drastic as much as noticeably.

They completely changed his down b, up b, and side b. Even his FS. The reasoning was bc of a new KI game that introduces new and usable moves.

All people really wanted was Link to receive some new specials. Remote Bomb for down B, Revali's Gale/Paraglider for up B, and something for side B(like stasis or magnesis I think?)

Would've been a smart choice imo, I mean now that we have 3 links with similar movesets.

 

[Troykv]

They completely changed his down b, up b, and side b. Even his FS. The reasoning was bc of a new KI game that introduces new and usable moves.

All people really wanted was Link to receive some new specials. Remote Bomb for down B, Revali's Gale/Paraglider for up B, and something for side B(like stasis or magnesis I think?)

Would've been a smart choice imo, I mean now that we have 3 links with similar movesets.

Well; we got Remote Bomb; and it does fun stuff :3

 

[Folt]

They completely changed his down b, up b, and side b. Even his FS. The reasoning was bc of a new KI game that introduces new and usable moves.

All people really wanted was Link to receive some new specials. Remote Bomb for down B, Revali's Gale/Paraglider for up B, and something for side B(like stasis or magnesis I think?)

Would've been a smart choice imo, I mean now that we have 3 links with similar movesets.

Side B and Up B sure (though that last one probably has to do with gliding not being a thing anymore). The new Down B however is practically a retool of the previous down B where it's able to protect the sides in exchange for durability. Not so much a drastic change than an evolution. Final Smash changes is par for the course; As a super move, they're one of the most replaceable parts of a character's moveset.

Link is already significantly changed as-is, using the Remote Bomb, being right-handed, and losing his tether grab for the first time (now grabbing normally). Neither Young Link or Toon Link is going to play much like this Link.

 

[Captain Shades]

I mine as well give my thoughts on FE characters, being somewhat of a new fan thanks to Smash. I like the additions so far, as I do feel that they picked the best characters to represent the series, outside of one. Here are my thoughts on the characters.

He’s the mascot and a perfect addition for the roster. Marth represents the more generic lord archetype of the franchise, but is so likable that he can’t be replaced. He’s the most important character, so of course he’s here.

:ultrobinLucina and the Awakening cast are essentially the ‘new mascots’ of the franchise. Just look at how Warriors marketed Chrom first, Lucina being the mascot of Tempest Trials, and Robin having a whooping total of 6 alts in Heroes. I know many get annoyed with Awakening, but it’s really just the Gen 1 for FE. Pokémon is equally as bad as Fire Emblem, even more so when it comes to over representing a certain title, but it’s okay since most know the characters and the series because of it. I feel Awakening is the same, this is the title that gave Fire Emblem more of a name outside of having two characters in Smash, so I’m completely okay with 3 reps. If Pokémon can have upwards of 6 characters, all completely different, to represent one title, than FE can certainly have 3 characters, two of which are clones.

Roy kinda sucks. He’s a character that even the series fan base says is only liked due to Smash. Roy was always just a marketing character, though since the Smash community does like him, I guess he should stay. They really should have just replaced him with an FE 7 rep though as that title was more liked and has three fighters that can offer a different play-style, but since Roy was the character around Melee, we got him instead.

It’s Ike, no hate here. Honestly, Ike seems to be the most loved FE character in Smash, and his games are decently praised (it’s hard to get a read on the rapid and usually idiotic FE fan base some times with their millions of divides). Ike should obviously stay, and maybe we can get another rep from his games. Plus Ike has two games under his belt, which is a rarity for FE characters it seems.

Here’s the one I hate talking about the most, as I feel the biggest divide in the FE community comes solely from him. I don’t really hate Corrin and think he should stay as he’s unique and has a large following, but I can see the argument that his addition was neither good for representing FE or limiting the FE roster in Smash.

As for what I’d do to fix the FE representation, well, I think it comes down to just adding different types of characters. This doesn’t even need to be a no more sword users argument. Use characters like Eliwood who can ride on horseback to add more variety, or add Black Knight, a character with similar techniques to Ike, but he’d be diverse being the only villain and one that has armor, which could help him take less knockback at the expense of horrible recoveries, think of little Mac, but way harder to throw off stage. Honestly I think our roster is fine now, but I would love to see Black Knight now that he’s being mentioned as a potential new comer, as that does add a new villain, or even the idea of Celica coming in as a new mage character would be great to. I guess we’ll just have to wait and see.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

Here are my concluding thoughts:
:He's the series mascot, so keep him. Fire emblem does deserve some representation.
:Better as a Marth echo, tbh. Unless they giver a completely original, inspired and never before seen moveset, she should not be her own fighter again.
: I would be more than happy to see Roy stay if they ever add Lyn, who I would also be more than happy to see included in the roster--as long as other series get more newcomers first. After that, if we never get Lyn, I don't see the point of keeping him over a more inspired character, FE or not.
: Better as a Roy echo. If roy is removed...2 echoes? Or an Ike echo?
: I don't care much for Ike. In terms of specials he's semi-unique, but for the rest of his moveset and metagame it's the same as Marth and Roy, just now he's a heavyweight with slower attacks. Another character I don't care much for.
Robin is the only truly unique FE character, since he's not based around air juggling as much as the others, and not as much as her spacing tools, back-and-forth neutral game, and her levinsword/tome gimmick.
: Get. Out. Of. Smash. You. Don't. Belong. Here. You. Advertisement. That. Barely. Anyone. Wanted.