The State of Fire Emblem Characters and what can change?

[smileMasky]

With there being 7 Fire Emblem characters in the smash roster you either love them or hate them. Many have stated that the smash team could have picked from a variety of weapons and characters as well. Most complaints come from the lack of creativity in the movesets. Others welcome it into the roster. Though Mr. Sakurai has stated himself that there are too many Fire Emblem Characters. Even after saying that we got Chrom. What I want to discuss today is what would you change about the FE reps, or what newcomers can shake the formula like Robin or Corrin? What current reps could use a change or are you contempt with the FE Representation?

 

[lordvaati]

well with Echo Stacking, there are in theory only 5 FE characters now: Marth,Roy,Ike,Robin and Corrin.
personally the change I would like to see is one that reps the Lance and Axe side of the wheels of FE,since we have magic with Robin and Dragons with Corrin.

 

[GoodGrief741]

I’d say cut Corrin and Lucina to keep people from complaining about overrepresentation (I’d say Robin too since imo his moveset was terribly executed but some might appreciate the variety). Then put Lyn in with a completely unique moveset (preferably not with a Counter) so that the people who complain about swordfighters shut up . That’d leave us with.
Marth - Unique moveset
Roy - Semiclone
Ike - Unique moveset
Robin(?) - Unique moveset
Chrom - Semiclone (let’s not kid ourselves, he’s not really an Echo)
Lyn - Unique moveset

Then you have the most popular characters represented, so the FE fanbase can’t complain. You have 3-4 unique movesets, so people can’t complain about repetition. Yet it’s still at a manageable 6 characters.

 

[User Name String]

One of the causes of the apparent over saturation of sword fighters and clones is the timing of smash does not align happily with smash as some of the characters added are not meant to be permanent (Melee Roy and Lucina) or there moveset is unique enough to warrant re-inclusion (Ike). In a sense the lack of variety of relevant main lords around smash's production hinder this.

Honestly if I were to change the roster I would be hard pressed as the only suitable replacements would be Hector and Erika's brother, however Ike swings his sword not unlike an ax and Corrin's Dragon arm is not far from a lance. Mounted units such as Selph and Eliwood would be difficult to make preform as the horse would take up too much space.

I suppose what people really want could just be less clones and variety in character design.

 

[smileMasky]

to be honest i think some of them should have used different weapons for different attacks or used some of the skills from the series to better diversify the moveset even if it is just a little bit

 

[User Name String]

Honestly when I saw Lucina in Robin's Trailer I was surprised she didn't have anything akin to a lance attack as it could easily be put over Shield-breaker.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

The Fire Emblem characters I would have in Smash:

Ike (but canon, e.g., faster)
Hector
Ephraim

After that, I'm not super attached to the idea of any other character/archetype (except a wind mage, but that's more dream roster than ideal roster). A mage or hybrid mage like Celica would be nice.

I also would use extensive alternate costumes to include other characters, with custom moves available to differentiate characters, e.g., substitutes for aether. It would also be really cool if characters could have different weapon movesets,

 

[CaptainAmerica]

I don't hate it - I've never played any of the Fire Emblem games, but Ike and Robin are both some of my favorites in Smash. That said, I'm not a huge Marth fan, so I don't need too many repeats of the same moveset. Lucina left a bit of a sour taste in my mouth, as did Dark Pit, from the last game and the fact that I'm not a huge Marth fan, and yet she had the toughest challenge in the game. Roy, however, got nicely Luigified between Melee and 4, so I definitely see him positively. Also, since Chrom was pretty bashed on in the leadup to 4, I'm happy to see that he did get his chance. My issue with Corrin was that he was a blatant ad, and I'd have preferred Azura as a rep from Fates.

My issue with Fire Emblem is pretty much that it's overtaken Zelda. Zelda's a much bigger series, but only has 6 characters with 3 fully unique movesets to Fire Emblem's 7 characters with 4 unique movesets. Also, only a few of the FE crew are recurring (I think just Marth and Ike) so there's no issue with FE one-offs in Smash. Meanwhile, as popular and even iconic as Zelda one-offs are (Midna, Skull Kid, Ghirahim to name a few), they're continually shunted aside.

If it were up to me, I'd have kept Lucina as a Marth costume OR a Chrom costume, depending on if he's in. I'd keep Marth, Ike, and Robin, and I'd have Azura to be a lancer/waterbender as a Fates rep. Roy/Chrom I'm undecided on. Also, an Axe user like Hector could be fun.

 

[Frizz]

I'm fine with the current FE roster. Here are my thoughts.

- If they wanted or needed to represent Fire Emblem, Marth would be the first and best choice. He starred in the first game of franchise, and afterwards he went on to make more appearances including a sequel, a remake of the original, a remake of the sequel, and other games like Fire Emblem Warriors and Fire Emblem Heroes.
- At the time, Sakurai's decision to include Roy in Melee purely to promote his upcoming game was a fair choice. In my opinion, he should've stayed cut since Brawl, but if he's going to stay, he might as well have a completely original moveset, instead of being a semi-clone.
- Ike's a different story. He starred in two games, both of which were released outside of Japan, unlike Roy. He's also a bit more different than Marth than Roy is. For example, Ike wasn't born in nobility like Marth and Roy and many of the other FE lords were. His personality's rather different too.
- Awakening, in all of its self-inserting, waifu-marriaging glory, is what saved the Fire Emblem franchise. Although it was meant to be the final installment in the series, its sales proved that finishing the franchise off here would be a bad move. And seeing how Chrom was the star of the show in Awakening, it'd make sense for him to be included in Smash. But like Sakurai said during Robin and Lucina's reveal, Robin had more potential than Chrom. Him being an Echo Fighter of Roy doesn't help with the "too many FE/sword users" case either.
:ultrobin- Robin, at the time of Awakening's release, wasn't exactly so popular. He was seen more as a self-insert character than as his own character. Sure, his base Tactician class allowed him to wield both swords and anima tomes, but that didn't change much in his popularity. I'd even go so far as to say that Chrom and Lucina were more popular than him. But he still makes a fine addition to the Fire Emblem franchise, demonstrating the series' weapon durability mechanic.
- Ah yes, Lucina. The one everybody likes to complain about when it comes to Fire Emblem characters, especially in Smash. She was originally meant as an alternate costume for Marth, but Master Hero Sack of Rye decided to give her own spot as a clone of him. She had potential, I'll admit. She could've represented Awakening's child inheritance mechanic. Her moves could've been based off the variety of skills in Awakening, for example. But so long as she remains in Smash as a Marth clone, the topic of "too many FE/sword users" will be frequently brought up within the Smash community.
- Like Roy, he was included to promote his upcoming game, but joined Smash with a completely original moveset, while representing the Manakete/shapeshifting races of Fire Emblem. He also makes a fine addition.

The two major problems with the Fire Emblem characters is that:

1. There aren't enough non-sword user Lords in Fire Emblem. Hence why all of the current FE roster uses swords in some way, shape, or form.
2. Many of them are too similar to Marth. Roy comes from the GBA era of Fire Emblem, which has their own animations to choose from. And Chrom and Lucina comes from the 3DS era of Fire Emblem, which also has their own animations to choose from. Point being? There's a lot of source material to choose from their respective home games in order to create their moveset, but Sakurai chooses not to do so.

So if these two problems were solved, there wouldn't be as much discourse over Fire Emblem characters in Smash as there is now.

 

[UserKev]

Lyn should have been playable. I consider Chrom now playable a straight jab to the long time supporters of Lyndis. That's all I got to say.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Lyn should have been playable. I consider Chrom now playable a straight jab to the long time supporters of Lyndis. That's all I got to say.

Well, Chrom isn’t as popular as Lyn, but then again most FE characters aren’t. Lyn wouldn’t really work as a clone or semiclone, so they’re not really competition.

 

[Jakisthe]

Cut Lucina, Chrom, and possibly Roy, first off. Boring clones/semi-clones should be the first to go, and we don't need more "nimble sword users with a counter" - at *absolute* most they can be costumes if they're going to be so samey. Replace them with Hector who uses Lyn as assists for his specials:

• B: Throws axe forward on a chain, pulling them in if hit.
• Side B: Calls in Lyn, who does a slight dash-slash before disappearing. Can be held, although she'll appear at wherever Hector was when he first started holding the button.
• Up B: Leaps forward and slams axe down; if contacting the ground at the end, causes a lightning bolt to shoot up from the point of impact (kinda like a reverse Pikachu)
• Down B: Calls in Lyn, who points her sword at nearest enemy before vanishing, reappearing where she pointed her sword (aka the position of the enemy when she pointed), slashes at that location, and disappears again.

 

[jamesster445]

As a fan of the series here's my hot takes on the FE roster.

Marth- 1st lord in the series and a rep of the Kaga era of the series. Not a fan but he has cemented his role in the series.

Roy- Our boy and a rep of the GBA era of the series. And while I'm not the biggest fan of clones, Roy's "reverse tipper" does offer a different playstyle compared to Marth and other swordsman for that matter. And Smash 4 has nicely "Luigi-fied" him allowing him to be his own. Also he has a Fire sword and that is pretty rad.

Ike- Our first non lord. Ike's rougher and slower playstyle is a welcome contrast to Marth's speedy fencing style and reps mercenaries well. He also has a Fire sword, except his are blue.

Robin- Robin might be the best designed FE character in Smash imo. Who better to rep a strategy game than a strategist. Not only is Robin a mage but he even incorporates FE's own weapon degradation system and incorporated it in his moveset.

Lucina- Last minute clone now echo fighter. Popular character but considering how little her playstyle varies from Marth's especially compared to Roy. Let's just say that if I had to cut one Marth clone it probably would be Lucina.

Corrin- I associate Corrin with missed opportunities. If I had to pick a Fates rep it would've been the waterbending spear dancer Azura. But Corrin could've also been a rep for dragons/manaketes but I feel like nothing he did captured that feeling. Instead we just got some Frankenstein of sword fighters.

Chrom- I'll just say it. Chrom could've been an alt for Lucina and I think everyone would've been happy. In the end we just get another lord with nothing unique to him, which is why he was rejected in 4.

We have 7 swordfighters and 4 of them are lords. And I find it weird because the whole point of the series is to manage different types of units of different classes.

So how would I like to see things going forth?

I don't know give me an axe user. Be it Anna, Hector, or Edgelord
Or a spear user. Be it Anna, Azura, or Ephraim.
Or maybe a full on mage. Like Anna, Michaiah, or Lilina.

Or just give me an Anna that can rep the whole series like the mascot she is by Switching between all weapon types.

But above all else just don't give me another sword lord.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

This is how you solve it.

Someone earlier talking about characters stacking. How about stacked characters?

 

[Altais]

In mine opinion, it shouldn't matter how many characters a franchise has, so long as they bring something unique to the table. For instance, I was originally indifferent to the idea of Corrin (known as Kamui at the time) being in Smash, because I thought he would just be another plain sword wielder. But after learning he was a Manakete whom commanded water, I immediately saw how he would differentiate--and differentiate he did.

For possible newcomers, I currently have mine eyes on Celica, Fjorm, and Edelgard.

Despite being another sword user, Celica wields magick. In her games, mages don't use tomes--instead, their spells sap their HP. Unlike Pichu, whom takes damage with every move, Celica's recoil damage could be more optional, as only her specials and maybe a few of her normal moves would involve magick. As an Echo Fighter, I could see her being a mix of Robin and Marth. She could have Robin's specials, but Marth's normal attacks.

Fjorm would be unique in that she would be the first Fire Emblem character to wield a lance. This, in combination with her power over ice, would give her a totally unique moveset.

As for Edelgard, she also wields a different weapon from the current Fire Emblem characters in Smash; an axe. However, what else she can do is yet to be seen. I'm hoping that, like Fjorm, Edelgard has a special power to compliment her unique weapon. Otherwise, it might as well just be an item.

 

[Deleted member]

Honestly I end up rolling my eyes at a lot of complaints about the Fire Emblem Cast. No one (or at least not enough people) complains about Marth, Ike, or Robin so I'll leave them alone. The others however.

Lucina - Let's keep in the mind that the time it took to make her, Dark Pit, and Dr. Mario their own characters in 4 was less than the time it would have taken to make a totally new fighter. And all of the Echo Fighters we have make sense as Echoes. Lucina uses the exact same sword Marth used in his era, She is descended from Marth's Bloodline, and she impersonates Marth for a decent part of Awakening.

Corrin - You know what I don't get? A big reason why people have a problem with the FE cast is because of their thought process of "too much of the same". Yet they opt to cut Corrin over Roy and Lucina just because they don't like him? Not very sensible.

Roy - He's a semi-clone in the vein of Falco and Toon Link. Similar to Marth, but also different. He came back in the first place likely due to fan demand and the whole "everyone is here" thing is not something I want dropped from Smash.

Chrom - People asked for him and Echo Fighters take up so little development time that there really wasn't a whole lot of reason not to add him. His status as a Roy echo fits very well. Roy has similarities to Marth and Chrom is Marth's Descendant.

Every FE character on the roster has a reason to be there. As for the complaint of "There's too many", the fact is that Fire Emblem has become one of Nintendo's biggest series. A character count similar to the likes of Mario, Zelda, and Pokemon is warranted.

As for more variety, there are certainly options, but relevance at the right time is a key component. If a non-sword using main or major character, such as Micaiah or Hector had their game come out closer to the development of a new Smash title, then they'd probably be strong contenders. As is though, we haven't had a case like that. If the Axe-wielding Edelgard is indeed the main lord (or at least a very important character) of Three Houses then she might be a strong contender for DLC. But even then I'm hesitant. Sakurai was already thinking FE was getting too high a character count back in 4. In the case of Ultimate I do think there was room for Chrom, but I kind of have my doubts that Sakurai would want to add more FE characters for a while.

 

[FirestormNeos]

Camilla and Tharja and Lyndis could all help in diversifying SSB's Fire Emblem Reps.

edit: nvm lyn got deconfirmed

 

[SpiralGalaxies]

I think the current roster of Fire emblem Characters is fine. though I will concede that "A whole bunch of swordies in a series with a whole lotta unique styles" is a very valid complaint. As is lack of Women fighters too since FE has some very popular and notable Female characters who more than deserve to be in smash.

Yes. There are a lot of Fire emblem characters. But saying there's too many as an argument is absurd considering how many Pokemon, Mario and Zelda reps there are. And while the lack of mechanical diversity between the many characters is valid, it's not as solid as an argument as people think. Like there is a grand total of 4 Unique fighters (Marth, Ike, Robin, Corrin) 2 Semi Clones (Roy and Chrom. Yes i'm counting chrom as a semi clone) and 1 Full blooded clone in Lucina. This...really isn't as non-diverse as people like to think it is. Especially When the mario series had numerous clones and semi clones, as have the zelda series, pokemon (Pikachu/Pichu), Mother, Star fox and etcetera.

The thing is that Fire emblem just really lends itself to easy echo fighters. A lot of the main characters just tend to use swords, and this is a result of the general marketability and popularity of swords. The games where the Main characters don't use swords aren't really all that popular. While having Ephraim in smash would be cool and unique, The Sacred Stone's isn't really an important stepping stone in FE's history. And while I dearly want Micaiah in smash, People more clearly remember Ike from Radiant Dawn. And Smash is above all a game about celebrating nintendo's gaming series. You don't celebrate a series by putting in side characters, you celebrate it by putting the most popular main characters of the series from the games that were poignant in the history of the series. In Fire emblem's case, this means a lot of Sword characters because a lot of the most important and popular characters in the series wield swords.

The solution to this over saturation of Fire emblem swordfighters in smash isn't really picking less popular or more niche characters in the series, but waiting for the Fire emblem games themselves to include more diverse main characters in the games, which they are slowly doing! So eventually we'll probably see some more unique Fire emblem fighters.

But at the end of the day, the current cast is a pretty good representation of the history of fire emblem. Marth, the original, Roy, The gameboy Era, Ike from the gamecube and Wii games, The awakening trio from the game that literally saved Fire emblem's life, and corrin from the game that proved that awakening wasn't a fluke and that FE was really back.

And as for the Lyn thing: Thing is, people really didn't know how popular Lyn was until relatively recently. So while she (Or hector!) would be better GBA Reps than Roy, Roy also had a smash veteran status boosted popularity thing going on. Roy is pretty liked by smash people who haven't played Fire emblem! I mean, look at all the "Where's roy?" During brawl and Smash 4. I have little doubt that In case of a new Smash game, Lyn is probably on the shortlist for a slot and rightfully so!

 

[Deleted member]

The solution to this over saturation of Fire emblem swordfighters in smash isn't really picking less popular or more niche characters in the series, but waiting for the Fire emblem games themselves to include more diverse main characters in the games, which they are slowly doing! So eventually we'll probably see some more unique Fire emblem fighters.

Watch it become the case to where there ends up being so many Fire Emblem games with a non-sword using lord that people will start to say the series needs to start including more

 

[Slycrow]

......................

 

[GoodGrief741]

Cut Lucina, Chrom, and possibly Roy, first off. Boring clones/semi-clones should be the first to go, and we don't need more "nimble sword users with a counter" - at *absolute* most they can be costumes if they're going to be so samey. Replace them with Hector who uses Lyn as assists for his specials:

• B: Throws axe forward on a chain, pulling them in if hit.
• Side B: Calls in Lyn, who does a slight dash-slash before disappearing. Can be held, although she'll appear at wherever Hector was when he first started holding the button.
• Up B: Leaps forward and slams axe down; if contacting the ground at the end, causes a lightning bolt to shoot up from the point of impact (kinda like a reverse Pikachu)
• Down B: Calls in Lyn, who points her sword at nearest enemy before vanishing, reappearing where she pointed her sword (aka the position of the enemy when she pointed), slashes at that location, and disappears again.

I’ll be blunt. Those are terrible ideas. Having Lyn in just as part of Hector’s moveset would be disrespectful to both characters, who have enough moveset potential and popularity to make it in.

Roy and Chrom being removed also makes little sense, as they specifically made it into 4 and Ultimate due to their huge popularity (Lucina is also very popular with the FE fanbase, but not so much with Smash’s)

Chrom- I'll just say it. Chrom could've been an alt for Lucina and I think everyone would've been happy. In the end we just get another lord with nothing unique to him, which is why he was rejected in 4.

Are you joking? It’s like people hang on every word Sakurai says and then deliberately choose to ignore him. Chrom got in due to high demand.

 

[Jakisthe]

I’ll be blunt. Those are terrible ideas. Having Lyn in just as part of Hector’s moveset would be disrespectful to both characters, who have enough moveset potential and popularity to make it in.

Roy and Chrom being removed also makes little sense, as they specifically made it into 4 and Ultimate due to their huge popularity (Lucina is also very popular with the FE fanbase, but not so much with Smash’s)

Lyn maybe, but I didn't want to have yet another sword user. Hector, well, he really doesn't do much besides "swing axe". What about it is bad besides representation reasons?

I don't care that Lucina and Chrom are popular. No clones/semi-clone trash. Either make them entirely unique, or stop clogging up the works. This topic asks what can change, and that's part of the answer.

 

[Diddy Kong]

well with Echo Stacking, there are in theory only 5 FE characters now: Marth,Roy,Ike,Robin and Corrin.
personally the change I would like to see is one that reps the Lance and Axe side of the wheels of FE,since we have magic with Robin and Dragons with Corrin.

Corrin also kind of represents lances in a way. Sakurai went the extra mile with designing Corrin around their Dragon Fang ability, using creative liberty to have quite a damn few lance inspired moves. F Smash is a great example, as well as Side B.

I like the state of Fire Emblem characters now. Ideally, we should've gotten Lyn as a newcomer as she fits the Ultimate popularity theme, but outside of that, all is good. I anticipated Chrom's coming, and it's good he's there. Hopefully we might see Alm and Celica as well, more confident about Celica at the moment... she could draw heavily from Marth but mostly Robin, maybe a little from Zelda and having the recoil mechanic of Pichu but with magic attacks instead. I also really hope to see the Black Knight.

Fire Emblem has a lot to thank Smash for. And Sakurai as well. Thanks to him the franchise left Japan to the western market. Considering this and the fact just about every new game has a new cast of main characters, it's GOOD to have a lot of them being playable. It's like a honorary status to Smash, and most Fire Emblem fans became FE fans due to Smash. It's a heaven made match and we should celebrate it more than criticise it!

 

[Folt]

I'm pretty happy with the FE roster so far. All the characters repped at the moment make sense of their inclusion:

- As the first Lord, it is only right that he be repped as a playable FE rep. Another thing is that while Lyn may be "our" Marth, Lyn wasn't our introduction to Fire Emblem in the Super Smash Bros series itself; that honor goes to Marth. Meta-wise, he is the old-school rep, coming from the timeline where he, as well as Alm and Celica, were the heroes of their time.

- Equally, Roy was the newest conceived Lord at the time and his game was somewhat of a throwback to Marth's game. He's also the only semiclone among the characters, having been luigified in Smash 4. His inclusion in Melee also made him somewhat of an icon among Smash fans which is a key reason for why he managed to make a return comeback. In a meta sense, his inclusion gives the GBA games a rep.

- Much like Roy, Ike was the recent Lord at the time and has built up quite the popularity among Smash fans since. Meta-wise, his inclusion gives the GC and Wii FE a rep.

:ultrobin - Robin of Awakening was the first eligible protagonist in a long time that could claim to wield something other than a sword, being primarily seen as a spellcaster than as a swordfighter. Awakening is also the most popular FE game and the game which turned the series from pretty niché to middleweight, possibly heavyweight contender, which will affect the pick of two others. Meta-wise, it makes sense to keep him in, both due to his unique moveset and Awakening marking the turning point in regards to the FE series in terms of popularity and iconicity, similiar to how Final Fantasy 7 marked a change in how people saw the FF series.

- Lucina was added in due to Awakening's popularity. As a clone/echo fighter, she doesn't take much resources to make which is also a reason for her inclusion, and her concept as Marth with training wheels has kept her in despite people's (including mine's) opinions on her. In a meta sense, it also makes sense to keep her in due to how Awakening changed people's view on the series.

- Corrin is another unique fighter. Different from the others in that he debuted through DLC, Corrin was then the most recent Lord, and his dragon abilities ensured a unique moveset in the vein of Robin in that he wasn't purely just a swordman. Corrin is also our first rep of an FE game after Awakening. Despite people thinking his inclusion overrepresents the 3DS base, I'd say no; the 3DS era marked a turning point in regards to the franchise's brand recognition, and Corrin's inclusion reflects that in a way. Also, he's rather unique among even the other FE reps.

- Chrom, being the only protagonist left out of Smash 4, made a triumphant return as an echo fighter in Ultimate. His inclusion solidifies Sakurai's drive in terms of including what fans want since despite having good reasons for excluding him as a playable fighter the first time around, the ensuing outrage and memés in the fanbase at his expense ensued that he stayed within people's minds (which, in my opinion, probably helped make the case for him to return to Ultimate in a playable capacity; basically he had a Ridley situation). Similiar to Lucina, he didn't take much resources to make, being an echo fighter, and completing the protagonist trio of Awakening let's that game fully flex it's muscles in terms of how big it made the series itself.

As it is at this moment in time, the FE series could perhaps have one more rep or two. But at the same time, it's also very robust and does adequately rep the series itself. About the only reps I'd kind of want out of the FE series right now would be Anna, Tiki, or a villain.

One thing you should take notice of when looking at these characters is that they all use weapons they are able to use when they're only just starting out (except for Robin where an exception was made for Nosferatu). In other words, weapons gained upon promotion is probably not even considered for a moveset. That is probably another key reason as to why Robin was our unique FE rep for Smash 4 (and also makes for a reason as to why Corrin was considered and made it into Smash 4 through DLC).

Also, whenever I think of Lyn, I think she might be in a situation similiar to what Chrom was at when Smash 4 started. Her moveset would pretty exclusively use the sword, and her fighting style + history in the mainline FE series means she won't work as anything less than a unique fighter. The other characters in the playable roster that exclusively use swords at this point in time has the grandfather clause (Roy and Ike, because they made their playable appearances early on when the roster was pretty small and nichés could be taken, and already have established Smash fanbases and movesets) or are fortunate enough to be clones of another (Lucina and Chrom).

 

[StormC]

But saying there's too many as an argument is absurd considering how many Pokemon, Mario and Zelda reps there are.

I mean, Fire Emblem is an ant compared to the legacy and popularity of these series.

 

[FirestormNeos]

I mean, Fire Emblem is an ant compared to the legacy and popularity of these series.

Legacy yes, but in terms of popularity, I'd wager that there's quite a bit of overlap between Zelda and Fire Emblem fanbases.

 

[StormC]

Legacy yes, but in terms of popularity, I'd wager that there's quite a bit of overlap between Zelda and Fire Emblem fanbases.

When Fire Emblem puts out a game that sells ten million copies, I'll humor that notion a bit more.

 

[Scottfrankd]

I don't have a problem with the amount of Fire Emblem characters we have, I think it's popular enough to warrant them and the echoes/semi-clones don't take much work. My only issue is the number of Swordfighters we have. I appreciate Robin and Corrin, but even they use swords. I feel like including an Axe or Lance user, heck even an Archer would add some spice.

 

[FirestormNeos]

When Fire Emblem puts out a game that sells ten million copies, I'll humor that notion a bit more.

*re-checks notes*

oh, my mistake, I was looking at an inaccurate piece of data. M'bad.

 

[verysleepywolf]

I'm not Fire Emblem savvy.

I myself enjoy Roy and his fire sword. Wouldn't trade that character for any other swordsman in SSB. The fact that the Fire Emblem roster offers me a diverse range of sword fighters to choose from is awesome, but somehow people think this is a problem. I empathize for the Fire Emblem fans in that this series is under attack so much. It does simply make sense to use Marth's moveset as a basis for the swordfighters within the series, but people have to realize that this means they can add characters (like Chrom) who will have a huge effect for what costs little effort. It meant a lot to many fans seeing him enter the fray. So toning down the character hate is due. That said, I'm not sure if I really want to see an all-out new type of Fire Emblem character when Robin and Corrin seem to handle that thematic diversity just fine. I understand we have no axe user or no archer, but those aren't necessarily interesting fighter archetypes to base entire characters around imo. We have other characters that use bows, and now Simon who uses axes. I think characters like Lyn have a potential to be fan-pleasers and could be relatively easy to create, and wouldn't be bothered if they included her. Celica may work as some kind of Marth / Robin hybrid. The fact is that they can create new Fire Emblem characters very efficiently and satisfy fans that want these character without putting unfair focus on the franchise, which appears to be what irate smashers believe is happening. Furthermore; I think it's more appropriate to include main characters despite the fact they use a sword, than shoe in someone that's not as important or popular just because they have a different weapon. Even if you want to explain how samey the swordfighters are, they have some drastically different mechanics to them anyways. Considering that the Fire Emblem series is about spacing between you and your opponent, Fire Emblem encompasses this perfectly in how the characters work by being more technical and advanced to use. I think what Sakurai has done is perfect and I wouldn't change it a bit.

It's toxicity and I'm sorry Fire Emblem fans have to put up with it.

 

[Standlord]

I think the biggest complains of "too many FE characters" comes from the smash 4 days when a lot of people were thinking "they'll surely cut Ike like they did with Roy, he is not relevant anymore" leaving us with Marth and Chrom as a newcomer (Chrom was the most popular at that time). Everyone kind accepted that fate for FE since it was a dying franchise and they didn't expect Awakening to do so well and didn't expect Sakurai/Nintendo wanting to push the franchise in smash like they did.

Thus, here starts the "overepresentation / that character stole the spot of my most wanted" dilema, having so many FE characters a lot of people who were not fans of FE games and didn't thought the franchise was deserving enough were bothered by those thoughts, not realizing probably that Lucina cannot be considered a character (really, even before DLC there were already people complaining with the "but FE don't deserve so many characters!").

Then DLC came out and the smash team made the terrible mistake of bringing back Roy. I do think that was a mistake since we could have had Wolf back or another newcomer, yet they decided to bring Roy even though they were gonna give us Corrin too. That's were all the FE hate started to really flourish, and when they gave us Corrin too he/she was perceived as just "blatant advertisement" (which is kind of true) and not as an exciting newcomer (which he/she also is). And since the ballot thing was supposed to give people their most wanted character and they instead gave us "blatant advertisement 1" (Corrin) and "bad decision making 101" (Roy, even though people kind of loved Roy because he is a veteran, but still) well... The FE franchise was perceived as the culprit for not getting more requested characters even more than Bayonetta (another "blatant advertisement 2" that somehow was saved by them saying she was the winner of the ballot, even though now we know she probably wasn't and today she only receives hate for being a broken character in smash 4).

Back to today, the FE cast still have that stigma of "stealing other characters spot" sort of mentality that people like to have when it comes to smash speculation, even though that's not exactly how it works (kind of, I understand the complaint, but it's not that simple), much less when realizing that Lucina, Chrom, and unfortunately to some extent Roy are clone characters that shouldn't be perceived as any more than that.

Look, I'm the first one that likes to complain about the state of the Zelda franchise in smash and how poorly designed it is, but if you want to blame someone, blame Sakurai and his team for not wanting to do justice to Zelda for some reason, and also for not administering wisely the DLC spots. But the FE cast has no fault here and we don't have such a thing as "too many FE reps", specially when only 4 are completely unique.

Like, have you seen Pokemon? We have 9 characters 8 of which are completely unique and 6 of which are from Gen 1 and probabky we are getting another newcomer from 7 Gen, and nobody complains about that, probably because they love Pokemon. And on the other hand we also have the Zelda franchise with 6 characters, 3 of which are some sort of clones and from the 3 left 2 are the same character disguised, and people only complain about that when it's time to throw shi t to FE, not realizing that it is the way it is because this is the way Sakurai envisions the Zelda franchise and has nothing to do with FE.

So, cutting FE characters it's not going to do anything specially not when the characters they want to cut are clones, and makes 0 sense when the selling point of this game is "everyone is here".

You want more unique characters and not what we have for FE? I agree, but Intelligent Systems makes most of their protagonist sword users, blame them instead if you must blame someone for that, or blame society for liking more the swords than the spears/axes, cause that's how it works, they base their product on what they think people are gonna like. But anyways, in smash 4 we got Robin and Corrin, and even though they are both sword users, they are also both very unique additions that represent magic and dragons in FE.

There's no point in bringing for example Hector now just because he is a axe user (as much as I'd love for that to happen, it's not gonna happen) because his relevancy is absolute 0 and his popularity, while relatively high, it's nowhere close to enough. So, it's just a pipe dream. It's not the same case as other popular characters we've gotten until now. If you want another unique FE newcomer then push for Edelgard when her game comes out during the smash ultimate DLC period, as she appears to be an axe user.

Having Lucina and Chrom as echoes is really a blessing and we are actually lucky that they are sword users and that they have the same sword as Marth, because otherwise they wouldn't have made it to smash (and they don't take much development time, keep that in mind).

Having said all that, all I have left is to complain/talk about movesets, which I don't know if I should do but I've already written a lot so why not. So now entering into maybe shifting terrain (because knowing these forums someone is going to tell me they love full-on clones for whatever reason):

Roy should have been decloned completely. Specially since he was smash 4 DLC and they could have done him better. They could have given him a different side B based on his attack animation on his game, which would be a kind of acrobatic move (cannot explain right now, go check it out if you want). They could have also given him a different down smash, maybe thrusting the sword into the ground and releasing flames/an explosion to both sides. With those changes alone he wouldn't be perceived as a semiclone or at least not as much as he is now. Add some more fire effects here and there for a more unique moveset and there you go. I'd be satisfied with that.

As you can probably guess, given that we don't live in a perfect world, I'm ok with echoes, but I personally would like for them to have from 1 to 3 unique moves (or at least taken from somewhere else) to justify picking them over the character they are made from, from a gameplay perspective. Sure it would take a bit more time for them to develop that, but not much more and the game would gain a lot from it in my opinion.

Chrom is a good example of what I mean. He does not only seem to have a balanced blade like Lucina is to Marth, but they also gave him Ike's recovery and they Luigified that move. That's better than having him use Roy's recovery and is a nice variation from a gameplay perspective. If they went all out and gave him his own side special, it would have been perfect for me.

For Lucina, I would give her her own acrobatic move taken from one of the cinematics from her game. If they made the change to Roy I suggested above, they could even base it on that move with slight changes. Also, I don't think it makes much sense for her to have a shield breaking move since it's Marth's version of the blade the one that does more damage at the tip, so it's kind of iffy (right or am I wrong?), so they could give her something original there too.


Back on the matter of adding more characters, I'd like Black Knight to be an echo for Ike, and possibly Celica could be an echo for Robin (though I think it could only happen if they went a little farther with the echoes like I suggest, which is probably not gonna happen). I don't think people should be mad if these happen, since they are just echoes. I'm still sad by the whole "Chrom is too much FE" mentality. I'm not even a FE fan (I've only played 1 game) guys, wake up.

Edit: Grammar.

 

[UserKev]

Well, Chrom isn’t as popular as Lyn, but then again most FE characters aren’t. Lyn wouldn’t really work as a clone or semiclone, so they’re not really competition.

I mean that Lyn should have got in before Chrom in general. Like, why isn't Lyn still not in? It gets strange the more you think about it.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

For me I’m fine with it because imo we have enough unique reps for the series’s size, and the clones are just icing on the cake.

I would however, like an axe-user and a spear-user, but that might be pushing it on sheer number of characters from the series.

I’m expecting an axe-weilding Edelgard as DLC, bringing the series to 8 characters in total, and that’s it.

After Edelgard with an axe, Bandana Dee can complete the weapons triangle.

 

[Standlord]

I mean that Lyn should have got in before Chrom in general. Like, why isn't Lyn still not in? It gets strange the more you think about it.

Because the timing for her inclusion wasn't right, she should have made it in Brawl or else she can't anymore. She is not in the same boat as Ridley and K Rool or even other popular requested characters. I'd LOVE to have her with the moveset they made for project M (like, she would become my main instantly) but it doesn't make sense to include her nowdays because she cannot be an echo. Chrom was an easy addition for a character that was eavily requested and was given the middle finger in a trailer during the smash 4 days.

 

[UserKev]

Because the timing for her inclusion wasn't right, she should have made it in Brawl or else she can't anymore. She is not in the same boat as Ridley and K Rool or even other popular requested characters. I'd LOVE to have her with the moveset they made for project M (like, she would become my main instantly) but it doesn't make sense to include her nowdays because she cannot be an echo. Chrom was an easy addition for a character that was eavily requested and was given the middle finger in a trailer during the smash 4 days.

I'll say this tho, Lyn is hot but her color scheme is bland. I think I know why she really isn't in.

 

[jamesster445]

Are you joking? It’s like people hang on every word Sakurai says and then deliberately choose to ignore him. Chrom got in due to high demand.

What excatly are you talking about? Sakurai stated as soon as Robin was revealed in Smash WiiU/3DS that he originally considered Chrom, but he found nothing particular interesting about his tool kit so he chose Robin instead. When did I ever not say that he wasn't wanted? No one was even considering Robin as potential Awakening rep prior to his reveal.

All I said was considering that since he's a Roy echo aka a Marth clone, who like Lucina, also a Marth clone, doesn't have a sweet spot. Chrom could've easily been an alt or a premiere skin for Lucina and I don't think anyone would've complained.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I don't personally mind the fact that Chrom was added as he's just a bonus fanservice character and I felt pretty sorry for the guy in Smash 4. At any rate, the biggest reasons why people complain about Fire Emblem characters is not just its popularity relative to franchises with similar amount of characters, but also due to the perception that they are too samey. That perception isn't going to change if we get a character from Three Houses like people suggests may happen as DLC since that would be even more controversial than any other FE character that was included.

 

[Fastblade5035]

What excatly are you talking about? Sakurai stated as soon as Robin was revealed in Smash WiiU/3DS that he originally considered Chrom, but he found nothing particular interesting about his tool kit so he chose Robin instead. When did I ever not say that he wasn't wanted? No one was even considering Robin as potential Awakening rep prior to his reveal.

All I said was considering that since he's a Roy echo aka a Marth clone, who like Lucina, also a Marth clone, doesn't have a sweet spot. Chrom could've easily been an alt or a premiere skin for Lucina and I don't think anyone would've complained.

Eh Roy is a semiclone, not a full clone. The only moves Roy has that are from Marth now are some aerials (up air, nair) dancing blade, counter, his grab animations, and I guess up and down smash, but tons of Swords have that down smash and up smash is multihit, unlike Marth. Unless you call Wolf a clone, Roy shouldn't be called one either.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Unless you call Wolf a clone, Roy shouldn't be called one either.

Wolf is far more unique than Roy though.

 

[Fastblade5035]

Wolf is far more unique than Roy though.

Wolf has Fox's nair now, and his specials are all functionally similar just like Roy. I agree that Wolf doesn't appear or play nearly as similar to Fox and Roy does to Marth, though.
Still, perhaps a better comparison to be made would be Lucas. My bad on that call.