The Solid Snake for Smash DLC thread! Such a lust for Smash news....WHOOOOOOOO?

[Deleted member]

Replace "Wii U" with "Wii" and "MGS5" with "MGS4" and you literally have the same case as prior to Brawl.

[/debate]

EDIT: Outside of the recent 3DS port of MGS3.
Brawl's time didn't have such an equivalent.

 

[Yosher]

Hence why I'm so surprised Snake even was in Brawl.

And Brawl's equivalent to this matter is probably The Twin Snakes, which was released on GameCube in 2004. I can imagine Snake not even making it into Brawl if the Gamecube didn't have that game.

 

[HylianHeroBigBoss]

You can say how it's a lazy excuse to say that Snake should be cut because they're not making any MGS games for Wii U, but it's still the truth. Nintendo has to promote games on THEIR system, not the competing systems. It kind of seems like saying, ''Hey, look at all the great characters you can play as on our systems! Oh, but here's one from our competitors too! Cool huh?'' It just doesn't make much sense at this point to include Snake, unless they indeed plan on bringing MGS5 to the Wii U. And 'most third parties' don't matter in this discussion anyway. It's Konami's decision on whether or not MGS5 comes to Wii U, and whether or not the Wii U sells poorly or superb, in the end it still either appears on the system, or it doesn't, and so long as Metal Gear Solid appears in no way, shape or form on the Wii U, or get a new game on 3DS, Snake really doesn't make sense in Smash Bros 4, as he'd just promote Metal Gear Solid 5, which will not be on Nintendo's systems, as it stands now.

So they arent promoting their stuff front and center in this game? Could have fooled me. Seriously where do you guys against snake keep coming up with these self imposed rules that hold no water? No dues are owed to nintendo, and since hes not directly owned by a competitor why should he be kept out due to not having the amount of games many deem worthy? Yeah because he shouldnt be keep out because of those since it didnt stop him before and it sure as hell shouldnt now. Sakurai is trying to make the best game he can, if nintendo wants to build any kind of relationship with its third parties it cant shut them out like that. Megaman hasnt ensured nintendo any future games either, so that shouldnt be held against snake based on not having a full library on their past systems. Konami has earned it enough in your terms as a company, so they just sent their best foot and character forward with snake who is their biggest character.

Hell hes better off than previously just because this exists

 

[Yosher]

So they arent promoting their stuff front and center in this game? Could have fooled me. Seriously where do you guys against snake keep coming up with these self imposed rules that hold no water? No dues are owed to nintendo, and since hes not directly owned by a competitor why should he be kept out due to not having the amount of games many deem worthy? Yeah because he shouldnt be keep out because of those since it didnt stop him before and it sure as hell shouldnt now. Sakurai is trying to make the best game he can, if nintendo wants to build any kind of relationship with its third parties it cant shut them out like that. Megaman hasnt ensured nintendo any future games either, so that shouldnt be held against snake based on not having a full library on their past systems. Konami has earned it enough in your terms as a company, so they just sent their best foot and character forward with snake who is their biggest character.

Hell hes better off than previously just because this exists

Of course they're promoting their own stuff in Smash. I didn't say otherwise. But why would they also promote the competing consoles? That's what I'm saying. You can turn and twist it any way you like and put as many bells and whistles around it to make it look more glorified, but in the end of the day Snake still is largely a Sony character these days. I've already listed the amount of games Snake appeared in recently on Sony systems, vs his appearances on Nintendo's. Snake being in Smash isn't the biggest stretch ever of course because he -has- a fair amount of appearances on Nintendo consoles, but with how heavily Snake appears on competing systems, he's obviously promoting those more than his singular appearance on a 3DS game that, good as it was, was still merely a remake.

It's not that I have anything against Snake. Honestly, I don't, I like Snake, I've cleared MGS1 on the PlayStation before Melee even came around, and I loved Snake's character, and still do. And I love having him in Brawl. But I just fail to see why Snake even is in, and why he should return again, besides Sakurai's friendship with Kojima and his 3DS game. I really don't see how that is enough, when put against Snake's many, many more (recent) appearances on Sony platforms, and hardly appearing on Nintendo paltforms at all anymore.

Mega Man, again, hasn't had any games at all over the years, and with most of his more recent games, still has appeared largely on Nintendo platforms, and that simply can't be said about Snake. And an appearance in Smash doesn't ensure future games in the first place, but their appearance in the series IS due to their history with Nintendo.

Honestly, I think it's best to simply agree to disagree, because we're not going to see eye to eye on this one. I'll welcome Snake with open arms if he returns in Smash 4, and will enjoy playing as him again, but as with Brawl, will keep thinking it doesn't make much sense to have him, due to reasons I've already stated many times by now.

 

[Deleted member]

Hence why I'm so surprised Snake even was in Brawl.

Because Sakurai doesn't care about how "loyal" Snake is to Nintendo as much as you.
Kojima "practically begged" Sakurai for Snake to be in Melee very late in development, and Sakurai went ahead and added him for Brawl instead.
Sakurai could have easily said "no". But he didn't. He saw reason to include Snake; he saw a style only Snake could provide.

And Brawl's equivalent to this matter is probably The Twin Snakes, which was released on GameCube in 2004. I can imagine Snake not even making it into Brawl if the Gamecube didn't have that game.

I can't; while Twin Snakes probably helped Sakurai's justification, the seeds were planted into his head long before Twin Snakes came out.

 

[JamesDNaux]

The whole "more games on Sony consoles" thing isn't that great of an argument in the first place, every third party will have this issue. Sonic? He was Nintendo's direct competitor when Sega was still making consoles, and even now he has games on, you guessed it, Playstations and XBoxes. Sure Sega and Nintendo have that three game deal partnership now, but that's just what it is, three games, Sonic will be back on PS and M$ in no time. And Mega Man? Yeah, he does have a large amount of games on Nintendo consoles, but he has games on Sony consoles too, some of his last games were on the PSP.

It isn't just Snake, any third party that they decide to add will be "advertising" opposing consoles, but just because they're in Smash doesn't mean they need to advertise anything. Do you expect Sakurai to reveal Snake and have a link on his page that says "Click here to learn more about Snake in his new game MGSV for the PS4!"? No, there will be a link to the MGS3D site, simple as that. Nintendo has never been worried about Sony in the first place, they aren't exactly in a "console war" so much as Sony and M$ is. Nintendo is just doing their own thing, always have, always will.

 

[Yosher]

I don't think you're getting my point. Yes, both Mega Man and Sonic have had games on Xbox and Playstation as well. But both of their respective series pretty much spread out the releases on each console they do appear on. There isn't the issue of, oh, one recent game on Nintendo platforms, versus 10 recent games on competing systems. In their case, you don't have to buy Sony or Microsoft consoles to be able to play a good portion of their series. You can just keep your 3DS or Wii U, and you'll have the Wii and DS backlog of Sonic and Mega Man games you can possibly play (when using the backwards compatability of the consoles the Smash games will appear on), and of course their 3DS and Wii U games as well. In Metal Gear's case? Only Snake Eater 3D will be available to you, so if you want more Snake, you better get your butt into Sony's camp! (Also, is that dollar sign really necessary? Come on.)

I'm more thinking about this from a more casual gamer perspective, the bigger audience. Not everyone's going to visit the SSB website. But many people know that SSB is a compilation of some of gaming's biggest stars; and if they don't know, they can read up on it in the Trophy and Chronicle section. So what do they do when they see Snake in SSB, and like him, and want to play his games? They're going to look for games that he appears in, and are much more likely to come across games that are on the competing systems rather than Nintendo's own, especially since MGS on 3DS isn't exactly very heavily advertised. This becomes an even bigger problems when there even are references to the games that did not appear on Nintendo's console in the respective SSB games, like how there were MGS4 references on Brawl. You can't tell me that's not advertising for games on competing consoles. And of course Nintendo is doing their own thing, but that doesn't mean they're not a competitor to Sony and Microsoft. They still have to promote their own products, not that of other companies, console war or not.

 

[JamesDNaux]

Disregarding the fact that, as I've said before, half of the MGS games have been on Nintendo consoles and half on Sony, you have to remember that Snake isn't just representing himself and his own series here. When Snake got in, he got in as Konami's character in SSB, he's representing the whole of Konami, even if he has no direct references to other games, Konami itself still has a large history with Nintendo. Similarly, Sonic is the Sega character and Mega Man is the Capcom character, each one taking the place of repping their respective companies. They aren't in the game as "the Nintendo third parties", they're in the game as the outsiders, the non-Nintendo that were lucky enough to warrant a spot. It's hard to compare Snake to the likes of Sonic or Mega Man in the first place, since he has far less games than them, plus the fact that they have a large amount of spin-off titles to help pad their game numbers on Nintendo consoles.

And speaking of the casual audience, what makes you think that seeing Snake in the game will give them an urge to go and play his games? Do you think the Wii Fit Trainer's inclusion will make people want to buy Wii Fit? Most casual gamers won't even know who he is or what he's from, he'll just be the "guy that blows up stuff in Smash Bros." Not to mention that most of the casual gamers you're talking about probably aren't old enough to play MGS in the first place, though that doesn't stop them from playing what they shouldn't anyway, but I digress. Side note: regarding the dollar sign, you mean when I'm talking about M$ right? Of course it's necessary, Micro$oft are a bunch of greedy ****s who need to stop making ****ty consoles, but that's another topic entirely.

 

[bobadz]

I think I said this earlier but the only way snake will not return is if kojima or Sakurai don't want him in.

 

[The Teleporter]

I would be suprised if snake shows up in the next game.

 

[UltimateWario]

Yeah, I really can't see Snake returning. Him being in Smash really seemed like a one-time solid (lol) for his good buddy Kojima and nothing more.

Not to mention that having Snake in the game is literally advertising for the competitors. It was asinine in Brawl, and it's asinine now.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Not to mention that having Snake in the game is literally advertising for the competitors. It was asinine in Brawl, and it's asinine now.

Snake =/= Sony

Snake = Konami

 

[UltimateWario]

Obviously. But more where are the Metal Gear games nowadays?

Not on Nintendo consoles, that's for sure. Metal Gear Solid 3D doesn't even count. You can get the same game, plus two more, for the same price (or less, I can't remember) in the HD collection. Which, surprise, isn't on Nintendo consoles.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Guess what wasn't on Nintendo consoles right before Brawl either? Metal Gear Solid.

Metal Gear Solid sits in a much better position with Nintendo right now than it did pre-Brawl, and that's because it at least has a connection with Nintendo now with the 3DS remake.

Snake was never added for potential advertising for Nintendo, Sakurai obviously doesn't give a rat's ass about advertising for competition as proven by Snake's inclusion in Brawl. Heck, Brawl even had a MGS4 song in its soundtrack, that is direct advertisement for MGS4, Sakurai just doesn't care about it.

 

[UltimateWario]

Before Brawl, there was the Twin Snakes remake.

So really, things haven't changed. Whether or not Sakurai cares, advertising for "the enemy" so to speak is idiotic. Especially with the WiiU plummeting like it is.

 

[Louie G.]

I don't know what Sakurai thinks about this issue. I'm just going to have to wait it out.
Although a 3DS remake doesn't mean a lot when you consider the new Metal Gear isn't coming to Wii U.
I'm not saying it helps or hurts his chances, but Snake Eater 3D doesn't really mean much, since everyone else is getting a brand new MGS.

 

[JamesDNaux]

Snake isn't "advertising" anything, it's a completely ridiculous notion. Do you think the average Joe plays SSB and thinks "Damn, I better play every single game that each of these characters have been in!" Or how about Mega Man, who has no new games, what is he advertising? His inclusion sure isn't helping Nintendo out.

 

[HylianHeroBigBoss]

I don't know what Sakurai thinks about this issue. I'm just going to have to wait it out.
Although a 3DS remake doesn't mean a lot when you consider the new Metal Gear isn't coming to Wii U.
I'm not saying it helps or hurts his chances, but Snake Eater 3D doesn't really mean much, since everyone else is getting a brand new MGS.

Why does a 3DS game not matter? I mean seriously where is this mentality coming from that 3rd parties have to be ultimately loyal and provide brand new tripple A titles for them to pay their dues to nintendo? There is no basis for any of that and its getting ridiculous that so many are throwing it out there like it matters when we have proof that it never did before and that none of these rules people apply to snake mean anything at all. No other character has to deal with this mountain of BS (not your post specifically just this notion in general)

 

[JamesDNaux]

Why does a 3DS game not matter? I mean seriously where is this mentality coming from that 3rd parties have to be ultimately loyal and provide brand new tripple A titles for them to pay their dues to nintendo? There is no basis for any of that and its getting ridiculous that so many are throwing it out there like it matters when we have proof that it never did before and that none of these rules people apply to snake mean anything at all. No other character has to deal with this mountain of BS (not your post specifically just this notion in general)

The whole concept of third parties in the first place is that they aren't Nintendo characters. It baffles me that people think Snake will get cut because he "isn't Nintendo" he's obviously not Nintendo, that's why he got in as the first third party. They can thank Snake for Sonic and Mega Man getting in too.

 

[KirbyKamikazi]

Disclaimer: While I am Biased for Snake to return, my only goal in this essay is to try and shead some light on the facts and help develop peoples arguments.

Snake's return in Smash is one of the most debated topics about the game. As with any debate, there are two sides to this argument.

Pro Snake Side:
-Snake is a unique character
-Snake is popular among smashers
-Snake is a Smash Icon
-Snake will return unless Sakurai and/or Kojima says so

Anti Snake Side:
-Snake isn't a Nintendo Character
-Snake is out of place
-Snake advertises for the competition

From what I've read, the anti side seems to making a more logical argument. However, one thing I think they have failed to noticed is that their argument could be the very reason why snake returns.

SSBB was released before the release of MGS4, so the MGS franchise within Smash contained multiple element from all of their games, but most predominantly the yet-to-be released MGS4 (ex. Gekko appearing on Shadow Moses). So nevertheless Konami was advertising through Smash, and Snake became a popular character, not just because of his competitive viability, but because of his unique and entertaining play style. As gamers like myself played the character, they got attached to him and wanted to know more about him. They would look him up, and learn not just about Snake, but the whole MGS Franchise. And MGS is one of the best series of games I have ever played. It one of those games were once you pick it up, you can't put it back down.

However the opposite is also true. Snake also appeals to gamers who already like MGS beforehand, and they might start taking an interest in Smash, and may lead them to get addicted to all the other games franchises within, such as the Legend of Zelda or Metroid. This in turn generates profit for Nintendo.

So now we have a a group of gamers who not only love Smash, but also MGS. An as Eddybear asked earlier in this thread (Page 4, post #136) "If Snake wasn't included, would it be a dealbreaker for buying SSB4 for you?" These Smash/MGS fans now have to ask themselves, "Do I want to buy this $60 Smash game when I can just download Project M?" and potentially a $300 Wii U? (Let's face it, the Wii U isn't doing so hot right now).

So Nintendo now has to choices
1.) Advertise Snake and MGS and appeal to a good chunk of gamers who might not otherwise take interest in their games, but risk upping sales of their competition.
2.) Cut Snake and MGS and lose appeal to a chunk of gamers, but prevent advertising for our competition.

Snake's fate in SSB4 depends on a multitude of factors, such as what Nintendo sees on the most profitable decision and if there's enough push from the fans, but in the end, it is Sakurai's decision.

 

[AncientTobacco]

In the end, Snake fate in SSB4 depends upon what Nintendo sees on the most profitable decision.

No, in the end it depends on whether or not Kojima and/or Sakurai want him to return. Nintendo was already somewhat against it last time (because Snake "felt like a Sony character"), but because Sakurai was the director of the game he was able to make it happen.

Here's a quote from Kojima: http://nintendoeverything.com/kojima-discusses-how-snake-made-it-into-super-smash-bros-brawl/

“I worked hand-in-hand with [director] Mr. [Masahiro] Sakurai, who I also consider a friend. At the time Nintendo thought that Snake felt like a Sony character, and didn’t think he would fit into SSBB. However, I really wanted Snake in the game, and it was through Mr. Sakurai that we were able to reach a consensus and make that happen.”

 

[KirbyKamikazi]

No, in the end it depends on whether or not Kojima and/or Sakurai want him to return. Nintendo was already somewhat against it last time (because Snake "felt like a Sony character"), but because Sakurai was the director of the game he was able to make it happen.

Here's a quote from Kojima: http://nintendoeverything.com/kojima-discusses-how-snake-made-it-into-super-smash-bros-brawl/

Thanks for the quote, edited.

 

[ChaosSoul]

alright kiddies let the MGS pro try and help with this the current argument is snake isn't a character that fits in smash and doesn't help promote Nintendo games since he isn't on any of their systems minus a few exceptions (i.e. remakes) however everyone always forgets the smallest detail regarding snake and that lies in his creator Hideo Kojima, now my knowledge of the gameplay is small mind you but if there is one thing Nintendo is good at its control and if there is one thing kojima is good at its presentation just watch the mgsv trailer to see what I mean. what I am getting at is that if Nintendo can work out a good way to control snake in smash 4 to make him better than in brawl and kojima can make snake be presented in a mater that would suit smash 4 then by all means snake can be in it all comes down to if Kojima ask if he can be in smash 4 or if sakurai ask kojima the same question not the marketing aspects not the console war the creators have the final verdict

 

[BlueSorrow]

alright kiddies let the MGS pro try and help with this the current argument is snake isn't a character that fits in smash and doesn't help promote Nintendo games since he isn't on any of their systems minus a few exceptions (i.e. remakes)

If only people understand that the Super Smash Bros series are Nintendo games and the inclusion of Third-Parties such as Snake, Sonic and Mega Man help promote the Nintendo game that is Super Smash Bros. for Wii U/3DS which is supposedly a killer app for the Wii U.

 

[ChaosSoul]

If only people understand that the Super Smash Bros series are Nintendo games and the inclusion of Third-Parties such as Snake, Sonic and Mega Man help promote the Nintendo game that is Super Smash Bros. for Wii U/3DS which is supposedly a killer app for the Wii U.

kinda forgot to post about that one but you are right

 

[Swamp Sensei]

So... For all you Snake fans out there.

How do you feel about all the hate he gets?

 

[HylianHeroBigBoss]

So... For all you Snake fans out there.

How do you feel about all the hate he gets?

Im honestly sick of it, its not even for good reasons either than just nintendo purists seeing him as an outsider (or in some cases just people who havent played any MGS games). He more than any other character has a huge uphill battle, which is sad to see since hes already crossed the line of playable character and now some are just looking for any reason at all to try and keep him from coming back. He is a huge gaming icon and konami's biggest star, and being in the last game should go further than anything else, and some people just dont want to acknowledge that. I could go on about the double standard against him by smash fans for days, but ill spare you that.

I just wish people would ease up a bit, i guess i kinda know how toon link fans felt. Snake should return, pure and simple, since he brings so much to the table with his moveset, character, games, codecs, and everything that has come to the metal gear franchise since brawl. It would be a waste to leave out all that potential for petty reasons like brand loyalty and what many throw out as his cons.

 

[MSmariosonic]

Im honestly sick of it, its not even for good reasons either than just nintendo purists seeing him as an outsider (or in some cases just people who havent played any MGS games). He more than any other character has a huge uphill battle, which is sad to see since hes already crossed the line of playable character and now some are just looking for any reason at all to try and keep him from coming back. He is a huge gaming icon and konami's biggest star, and being in the last game should go further than anything else, and some people just dont want to acknowledge that. I could go on about the double standard against him by smash fans for days, but ill spare you that.

I just wish people would ease up a bit, i guess i kinda know how toon link fans felt. Snake should return, pure and simple, since he brings so much to the table with his moveset, character, games, codecs, and everything that has come to the metal gear franchise since brawl. It would be a waste to leave out all that potential for petty reasons like brand loyalty and what many throw out as his cons.

You've spoken for us all. :')

 

[KirbyKamikazi]

Anymore argument against Snake anybody? Please, I would genuinely like to hear them.

 

[ZombieVito]

The change of VA I guess. Even though it was only for Big Boss and not Solid Snake.

 

[I_hate_usernames]

I hope Snake makes it into Sm4sh, just of the exact reason to piss on PS:AS face just a little bit more...

 

[Simensis]

Whenever some people think Snake just doesn't belong there and therefore shouldn't be included I think "Yeah, he doesn't belong in the Smash universe but that is exactly the reason he should be included".
I mean, should Samus be included in the same universe as Marth's or Kirby's? It's freaking Smash Brothers! The whole point is to get a lot of characters of different universes together. If anything Snake is just the climax of the whole concept.
I don't really see him being cut but I can't say for sure. I really hope he is not. He is the only "unsafe" character I really want to return. I have only played MGS:TTS and MGS3D and I love them.
And what's with all these "I hope he gets replaced by PacMan/Other 3rd party" arguments? Can't we have Snake AND other 3rd party? Are the 3rd party slots fixed or something?

 

[Deleted member]

Well, they kind of are fixed.
That being said, we can easily have 4, including Snake.

 

[ChaosSoul]

to be honest here I already have three mains lined up for smash 4, link toon link and sonic, so at this point while I would absolutely love snake to be in the game now its just a bounus for me

 

[ChaosSoul]

So... For all you Snake fans out there.

How do you feel about all the hate he gets?

also snake haters are just ignorant they probley never played a MGS game to begin with in fact snake was the reason I got into smash bros in the first place after his reveal I went back and played the other 2 games so suck it haters

 

[UltimateWario]

It's freaking Smash Brothers! The whole point is to get a lot of characters of different universes together

The whole point is to get a lot of Nintendo universes together. Something that people tend to forget is that Smash Bros. is about Nintendo above all else, then demand that such-and-such franchise DESERVES to be in Smash and so-on. I'm not anti-Snake or MGS (although I think it's silly and stupid that there aren't more MGS games on Nintendo consoles, especially after Brawl), but it bugs me when people say that 3rd-parties deserve to be in Smash when the only things that "deserves" to be in Smash are Nintendo properties. Third-Parties are just there as a bonus.

 

[Simensis]

The whole point is to get a lot of Nintendo universes together. Something that people tend to forget is that Smash Bros. is about Nintendo above all else, then demand that such-and-such franchise DESERVES to be in Smash and so-on. I'm not anti-Snake or MGS (although I think it's silly and stupid that there aren't more MGS games on Nintendo consoles, especially after Brawl), but it bugs me when people say that 3rd-parties deserve to be in Smash when the only things that "deserves" to be in Smash are Nintendo properties. Third-Parties are just there as a bonus.

Totally agreed on both parts, I really hoped we would get the Legacy Collection on the Wii or WiiU but ahh...
And yes I don't think we should over populate the roster with a lot of 3rd parties that would seem to deserve a place, but if Snake has already got in, why not have him back?

By the by, anyone knows of some important date in the MGS series in which we could get his announcement on the website?

 

[IsmaR]

All I can think of is Phantom Pain's release, which likely won't be for a while (or even before Smash 4 releases)

 

[CroonerMike]

I always feel indifferent about snake being in the game. Personally, I love Snake and I use him all the time. I would hate to see him go because I feel like he is part of the smash family. At the same time if he was cut, that makes room for another character. I'd hate to loose him though since I do main him. If he is cut though, i'll be listening to calling to the night crying. </3

 

[HylianHeroBigBoss]

By the by, anyone knows of some important date in the MGS series in which we could get his announcement on the website?

Metal gear solid Ground zeroes comes out on march 20th in Japan, although as we know it's not a Nintendo release so who knows if it would be brought up in an update. If not that then a Nintendo direct is the next possibility.