The Snorlax Room

[Ryu Shimazu]

Well, yeah.

It's the ultimate in "You're gonna spend hours to get this weapon you'll never use"

And Wyrmhero Blade isn't? Less damage than Tourensol, and takes 6 seconds to load WITH Haste.

Danjuro has uses. Haste/Zerk/Bunny Hood + Danjuro = 7000 a hit rapidly.. it's pretty buff. God I miss my FFXII file. I need to get a AR/USB for Game Saves... and get this one on ps2 ><

Anyone got any tips for the most efficent way to do that?

 

[Metal~Mario]

And Wyrmhero Blade isn't?

They both are.

Who will you be fighting with these weapons?

All the bosses are dead and you (hopefully) have finished all of the rare game.

I don't have the Danjuro for this specific reason.

Also, you obtain Wyrmhero after defeating everything in the game, while you must go out of your way (and into a ****** insane maze) to get Danjuro.

 

[Ryu Shimazu]

^ True. What disapointed me was the Yagyu Darkblade. I'm a fan of Ninjas, and they seem to screw them over in every single FF game. It was good for one fight. Yay.

On another note, Masamune.. (Samurai, the job they always overpower) was nice. That+Toruensol = win.

 

[Wave⁂]

Yeah, CRASHiC was probably banned because he broke SWF's copyright infringement rules.

 

[Metal~Mario]

Masamune are great.

The fact you can throw them on Mages really helps their usefulness.

I personally spent 3 hours get Yagyu. Wasted.

 

[Ryu Shimazu]

I spent around the same as well. Farming it didn't bother me, the **** dragons guarding the bomb did. They were so annoying. I hear in Internation Zodiac System mages are quite useful, oil + flare breaking 40k damage, but yeah. I own the collecters edition, so no damage break limit for me.

I had one member with Tourensol, one with Masamune/Genji, and one with Danjuro. The dagger was the mage. I'd let her support and the other 2 spam 9999 with Zerk. Yiazmat was a cakewalk 'till the last 3 bars.

God I miss my file, why did it have to corrupt.

280 hours gone >_>

 

[Metal~Mario]

I've got 389 hours and a damage ceiling.

It irks me ever so.

Y'know what else irks me? How Rake, Lunge, and Ram defy the Time Meter and you (the party) doesn't get anything like it.

 

[Ryu Shimazu]

I've got 389 hours and a damage ceiling.

It irks me ever so.

Y'know what else irks me? How Rake, Lunge, and Ram defy the Time Meter and you (the party) doesn't get anything like it.

What does the first part mean?

I hated how when Yaizmat did a 2nd hit (and he had 10 bars or less hp) you MAY AS WELL cast Arise because he'll keep hitting until you're dead.

I also hated how he timed all his movies, including death ray which NEVER MISSED, and most of all I hated how he casted reflect towards the end.

I watched a video of some poor guy who casted Renew... it fully heals hp yeah? and it reflected onto Yaizmat.

"Yaizmat recovers 50,000,000 hp"

 

[Metal~Mario]

What does the first part mean?

I hated how when Yaizmat did a 2nd hit (and he had 10 bars or less hp) you MAY AS WELL cast Arise because he'll keep hitting until you're dead.

I also hated how he timed all his movies, including death ray which NEVER MISSED, and most of all I hated how he casted reflect towards the end.

I watched a video of some poor guy who casted Renew... it fully heals hp yeah? and it reflected onto Yaizmat.

"Yaizmat recovers 50,000,000 hp"

^Lol my guide warned me about that.

Actually I know how to have Deathstrike miss. Cast Shell and it may miss on whomever is buffed with shell. I know because Penelo had the shell shield on the entire fight and Deathstrike missed like 3/5 times.

The first part says my hours logged and how I have a damage ceiling/limit.

 

[Ryu Shimazu]

Oh. Well I got my Antilead. 31/31/31/26/29/23. It's quiet, slow as **** so I don't care for Speed. It runs Extreme speed, Draco meteor, Fire blast, EQ, so you could say "Satt is too low" but meh.

 

[Charmander]

Luxray - Hyper Beam?
Ho-Oh - Fly?

He's on the wrong ladder.

He had a lugia with body slam......
f-f-f-f-f-f-FAIL!

 

[Metal~Mario]

Parahax, man. Don't underestimate it.

In other news, my brother recently had his XD file corrupted during trading. So he had to delete it and start over.

Casualties: ~200 Pokemon
30 were Competitive
5 were Level 100
1 was Shiny

and he lost a LOT of good items, like Sacred Ash, PP Max, and several TMs.

Needless to say, he's a little bummed.

 

[Ryu Shimazu]

I was saving FFXII and my brain melted and for some reason I shut it off midsave, I feel his pain.

I've only got 3 pokemon left to get for my teams..if I lost my SS file right now.. I'd die.

So I was watching this movie called Dead Tone or something, your basic hack and slash type movie.

I heard this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1alq5G_ZNQo

You know, I'm not big into emo but for some reason it stuck to me. Then I realized both them and the movie flopped. lol.

 

[Chill]

Games as art is fine, but i like games as games and as a game SotC isnt actually good.

Do you think people just say it's good because it's nice to look at? It's obviously a awesome gaming experience as well.

 

[Pink Reaper]

Do you think people just say it's good because it's nice to look at? It's obviously a awesome gaming experience as well.

Having actually played the game all the way through I can honestly say the experience stops being awesome around the second Colossi when you realize the game is pretty much exactly the same for every one of the bosses. Had there been more to the game other than just the 16 colossi i might be more inclined to like it but since it's just the same puzzle 16 times its far from awesome, somewhere more around mildly entertaining.

 

[Chill]

Er, that doesn't even make any sense. That's like saying every temple in Zelda is the same because it's a temple. If every colossi was a copy/paste of the same boss fight you might have had a point.

Spoiler

I'm going to refrain from making any snark comments.

 

[Falconv1.0]

Having actually played the game all the way through I can honestly say the experience stops being awesome around the second Colossi when you realize the game is pretty much exactly the same for every one of the bosses. Had there been more to the game other than just the 16 colossi i might be more inclined to like it but since it's just the same puzzle 16 times its far from awesome, somewhere more around mildly entertaining.

Because a horse that you have to take a completely different approach to, a giant ****ing bird, eel, sand worm that requires you to run away on your horse, I could keep going, are the same thing as a guy you climb up easily and another guy climb up easily.

Right.

Edit-I daresay you're trolling, my good sir.

 

[Pink Reaper]

Yes, yes they are.

The approach is always exactly the same, locate weak spot, reach weak spot, apply liberal amounts of sword to said weak spot, repeat as necessary. The only time the game ACTUALLY became interesting was the final colossi which challenged you to use legitimately well thought out methods to reach his weak spot. Every boss minus the last one had essentially only one single, usually very obvious path you could take to expose its glowing "Kill me here" spot. Once you figured out how to get on it it was just a matter of staying on and killing it. Maybe if they had layered some of the bosses more like the last one which was "Find a way on->Find way up_>Find way to force it to move the way you want->Kill it" it would have held up better.

 

[Falconv1.0]

Yes, yes they are.

The approach is always exactly the same, locate weak spot, reach weak spot, apply liberal amounts of sword to said weak spot, repeat as necessary. The only time the game ACTUALLY became interesting was the final colossi which challenged you to use legitimately well thought out methods to reach his weak spot. Every boss minus the last one had essentially only one single, usually very obvious path you could take to expose its glowing "Kill me here" spot. Once you figured out how to get on it it was just a matter of staying on and killing it. Maybe if they had layered some of the bosses more like the last one which was "Find a way on->Find way up_>Find way to force it to move the way you want->Kill it" it would have held up better.

All I'm getting out of this is "you hit a guy on his weak spot" like that's an insult. And apparently you're a super genius because no one else I've talked to was able to figure out every one super fast, either way none of them are the same puzzle, at all.

Yeah I'm done with this argument.

 

[Wave⁂]

PR, I feel like you're being a big harsh. Most game are repetitive to some degree.

 

[Pink Reaper]

Yes but none to the degree of SotC. There's literally never a new gameplay mechanic that's introduced after the first few bosses.

And no, im not a genius it's just REALLY obvious how to kill 90% of the bosses(The one in the lake you have to control took me a good 15 minutes to figure out though, not gonna lie) Sand worm chasing you with one giant exposed eye? Camera zooms in on a stick that's lit fire? Mini-colossi(I refuse to call that tiny little thing a colossus, it just wasnt) afraid of fire and on a high cliff? Rampaging colossi in a corridor with nothing but bridges just slightly taller than him? Giant turtle in an area filled with giant geysers? Most colossi in the game have one single, REALLY obvious exploitable weakness if even that. A few, like the flying serpent it's just a matter of waiting till it comes low enough to jump on and jumping on it. I didnt feel particularly special for figuring out round peg in round hole puzzles.

 

[Chill]

Yes, yes they are.

The approach is always exactly the same, locate weak spot, reach weak spot, apply liberal amounts of sword to said weak spot, repeat as necessary. The only time the game ACTUALLY became interesting was the final colossi which challenged you to use legitimately well thought out methods to reach his weak spot. Every boss minus the last one had essentially only one single, usually very obvious path you could take to expose its glowing "Kill me here" spot. Once you figured out how to get on it it was just a matter of staying on and killing it. Maybe if they had layered some of the bosses more like the last one which was "Find a way on->Find way up_>Find way to force it to move the way you want->Kill it" it would have held up better.

Now you're just being silly. Well, you were being silly before but that's not even a legitimate criticism. If you reduce a game to it's most base form it's going to sound repetitive. Mario is simply save the princess. Zelda is simply defeat Ganondorf.

Of course you have to hit a colossus in it's weak point to kill it. What else would you expect them to do? That's what you do in every game that requires you to kill something. How do you kill Bongo Bongo in OoT? You hit his hands with arrows and then slash his eye. Three times. How do you kill the water monster? You pull it's heart out and then slash it. Three times. I guess we can all agree that OoT is a repetitive and mediocre game right?

Tell me, how do you usually kill a boss in a megaman game?

 

[Firus]

The thing is, Pink Reaper, I think you're missing the entire subtractive design idea behind the game. Maybe you're not a fan of it, but to say that it's a bad game because you don't like it doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

 

[Pink Reaper]

@ Chill, if megaman/LoZ was JUST bosses, i wouldnt bother playing them(scratch that, the MMX series has been pretty terrible since X3, i dont play it anyways) The difference between OoT and SotC is that there's OTHER STUFF in OoT, other gameplay elements, other mechanics to learn.

@Firus I didnt say it's a bad game cus i didnt like it, i didnt even really say i didnt like it(It was entertaining enough to get me through a bored afternoon) im just saying that as a GAME it's not that well designed. The big problem is the whole "Games are art" bull**** that gets tossed around so much. People put the game on a pedestal because of the artistic merit it has, but the big problem there is that it's still a GAME. If its an overly repetitive, super linear artistic statement it's not worth calling one of the greatest games of all time. It's like copying the last 3 pages of the Great Gatsby 100 times in a row and calling it one of the greatest books of all time. Sure it was legitimately enjoyable in the beginning, and there's artistic merit to it but it doesnt make it enjoyable.

Im gonna go play Okami now, a game that is both artistically beautiful and legitimately fun.

 

[Chill]

I'm going to agree with Firius here that you seem to be missing the point. SotC has like 4 or 5 cutscenes in the entire game, it's not called art because of dramatic FMVs. It's not called art because it takes 40 hours to beat it. Yes, SotC is different from a lot of games that's true. But it's not bad design because it doesn't have 100 sidequest. It's not bad design because it doesn't have enemies on the overworld. These are all purposeful design decisions to evoke a specific mood during the game. It is the actual gameplay of SotC that gets it such high marks.

I love Okami to death, it's one about 5 PS2 games that I decided to keep when I sold of my collection. But the fact and the manner in which you cited it seems to be evidence of your confusion. No one thinks SotC is a good example of art because it's pleasing to look at. Art is not simply an image on paper. Art is film, fashion, books and so much more. You seem to have it in your head that art is just a pretty picture.

 

[Pink Reaper]

Whoa whoa whoa whoa wait. You took 40 HOURS to beat SotC?

Also i never stated that SotC was gauged by it's aesthetic value(though it is a pretty game) Im fully aware its all about the mood it's meant to create, the emotions it's supposed to evoke, the somber feeling youre supposed to feel from killing majestic creatures(moreso when you find out what they really are) etc etc. Im saying that that doesnt naturally equate to FUN! Would you play LoZ if there was nothing but the bosses in it? Creating a mood is fine and dandy but the problem is we're still playing games. Left 4 Dead is a good example of a game that exquisitely understands how to create a mood but then after having been in that mood for about 5ish hours it doesnt really have an affect anymore, at that point it's not "HOLY **** ZOMBIES COULD COME THE **** OUT OF ANYWHERE RUN RUN RUN RUN I DONT WANT TO DIE" and more of "SWEEEEEET, i just crowned a hunter in mid leap." That mood doesnt last forever and eventually you still have to fall back on the actual gameplay and without actual gameplay all you have is a guy riding a horse(the 20 minute loading screen as i liked to call it)

I bring up Okami because as of now, games dont have the ability to truly be called art on anything but a more aesthetic level. The best writing in the best games still sits somewhere between fan fiction and direct to DVD movie. The music in some series are definitely of high caliber(i almost typed calibur there) but music is already sort of an accepted art form.

 

[Ryu Shimazu]

So off topic <.< The water temple was cool. Got MM downloaded from wiiware so I can play it next. NEVER played MM but I've heard great things.

 

[Player-4]

New Pokemon in the BW thread if you guys didn't know. Pics on page 206.

 

[Wave⁂]

I think you're missing the entire subtractive design idea behind the game.

Uh. Google won't tell me what that is.

 

[Cease Tick]

The best writing in the best games still sits somewhere between fan fiction and direct to DVD movie.

Mass Effect.

 

[Falconv1.0]

Uh. Google won't tell me what that is.

Making a game more about what it is, getting rid of fluff that doesn't matter. Ico, which SotC is a prequel to, did the exact same thing.

 

[Chill]

Whoa whoa whoa whoa wait. You took 40 HOURS to beat SotC?

Also i never stated that SotC was gauged by it's aesthetic value(though it is a pretty game) Im fully aware its all about the mood it's meant to create, the emotions it's supposed to evoke, the somber feeling youre supposed to feel from killing majestic creatures(moreso when you find out what they really are) etc etc. Im saying that that doesnt naturally equate to FUN! Would you play LoZ if there was nothing but the bosses in it? Creating a mood is fine and dandy but the problem is we're still playing games. Left 4 Dead is a good example of a game that exquisitely understands how to create a mood but then after having been in that mood for about 5ish hours it doesnt really have an affect anymore, at that point it's not "HOLY **** ZOMBIES COULD COME THE **** OUT OF ANYWHERE RUN RUN RUN RUN I DONT WANT TO DIE" and more of "SWEEEEEET, i just crowned a hunter in mid leap." That mood doesnt last forever and eventually you still have to fall back on the actual gameplay and without actual gameplay all you have is a guy riding a horse(the 20 minute loading screen as i liked to call it)

I bring up Okami because as of now, games dont have the ability to truly be called art on anything but a more aesthetic level. The best writing in the best games still sits somewhere between fan fiction and direct to DVD movie. The music in some series are definitely of high caliber(i almost typed calibur there) but music is already sort of an accepted art form.

No, it didn't take me 40 hours to beat SotC. I was saying that you seemed to be implying that because SotC isn't like other games i.e. 40 hours long that it is poorly designed. I wouldn't play a Zelda game that was only bosses because I don't play Zelda games just for the bosses. SotC isn't Zelda. That's what you don't seem to get, one good game does not have to be made just like another good game in order for it to be so.

Mass Effect has hours of fully voiced cutscenes, mulitple levels, partners, sidequest and DLC to furthur the experience. Mass Effect is also a fantastic game. SotC has none of these. Is it a bad game because it wasn't designed in the same way as ME was? Absolutely not, SotC is designed to deliver a more stripped down and pure gaming experience. There are two completely different things. So asking me if I would play zelda if it only had bosses is like asking me if I would play ME if it was more like Zelda. They are two completely different games.

There's a game on PSN called Flower. It has 6 levels, one button, every level is beaten in a similar fashion and the game can be completed in 2 hours. It is also one of the best games that I have played this generation. What I'm trying to stress here is that games like Flower and SotC are not like the majority of games out there and they are better for it.

I would argue that games have the ability to be artistic on more than an aesthetic level (hence the praise for SotC) but "are games art" is an entirely different debate.

 

[Greenstreet]

Wave your avatar is horrible and you should feel bad.

 

[Fuelbi]

That's like the best avi ever

If only it were unown doing it :/

 

[Wave⁂]

Mijumaru is a very sad-looking Pokémon.

 

[Greenstreet]

From now on I view that as him giving blood... he's being charitable.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Unown has got no hands. :\

 

[Ryu Shimazu]

Onto the Shadow Temple in OoT... I've heard many rumors of Bongo Bongo-- This place creeps me out. D=

 

[Kofu]

I hate Bongo Bongo, dumbest boss ever

And the Well is creepier than the Temple itself.

Twinrova is pretty awesome though.

 

[Fuelbi]

Unown has got no hands. :\

Well, it's A form does have like 2 stubby legs right? It COULD use those as arms