The Smash Tournament Format is Flawed

[MRX]

What I was trying to point out is that being skilled with the character and being skilled with the character and item is another. Sure, a vast majority would rather show off their skills with the characters than "cheaply" use the items with little effort, but after playing Brawl for quite a while, I do not really feel that items feel like a cheap KO as much. When I played with people with items on, does not feel like an obstacle, but sure enjoyment of items being there. I dislike the items in Melee and I found myself turned off when I play the game. However, when I played Brawl without items, I felt like there was something missing and quickly I found of what Sakurai was saying that all characters have a way to be defeated or be defeated. Sure, that does increase your skill with characters, but when I played with the items on, I actually found that you can make combos off of items. I remembered that when I versus, I grabbed the Pokeball and I used it 3 times before I unleashed the Pokemon. That is what I found interesting and considered that items could work with tournaments. However, a middle ground would be the best option to start off with.

Edit: WTF?! I tried one more time and then it worked. That's it. My browser needs a clean!

 

[IGN Forums]

.........................

 

[PanzerOceania]

Banana peel: Enough of these get on the stage (about 4-5 on FD), then movement becomes pretty much impossible for all parties without slipping and getting severely punished by powerful moves. Just like all those pesky banned stages.

Smoke Ball: I think I already said something about this.

1. One of these appearing on top of you could grab it instead of performing an attack.
2. This item's presence on the stage can give you a 'nudge' in a certain direction, simply by being close to it.

The bottom line is that this item actually LIMITS your move pool. Why would anyone pick up an item like that? All does is clutter up the stage and annoy you. Yes, I guess you COULD construe it to be tourney legal (it's a stretch because of #1), but even if you could get it to be legal, would you really want to play a smoke ball only tourney? No. Even if you did the majority would be against you.

Mr. Saturn: This item can be used in very quick succession or dropped to help combos. Also, it's a great way to break people's shields. It can cheaply edgeguard some characters (what happens when Ness is hit while he's waiting for the energy ball to come around and hit him?) And they get in the way more than any other item as they move around.

aside from Mr. Saturn you could just put the items on low level so there never would be that many on a stage at a time.

And item spawning is fairly regular as well. 30 seconds - 1 minute usually.
There is some level of randomness, I will admit, but it's nothing big.

I'm not saying items should come back to smash instantly and unanimously. Such a claim would be stupid at best. But with the new airdodge, item catching physics and better recoveries, it should be looked into. Item edgeguards are ineffective for the most part, item chucking can't dominate, and getting hit with capsule can no longer randomly equal instant death at random.

Not a demand, but an observation. I'm only saying it should be given the benefit of a doubt, rather than using our Melee prejudice against items to stamp out what coulod be a great aspect of tourney play.

THANK you.

 

[slartibartfast42]

So you're suggesting Banana peels and Smoke Balls on very low should be the tournament standard? lol

The smoke ball is useless. Give one good reason it SHOULD BE ON. I've given reasons for it to be off.

The Banana peel is no better than the motion sensor bomb, except in the respect that it will only wind up in death if you hit it near an enemy. Hitting a banana peel could cause you to get hit by a rest or a maximum power charge shot. If I'm not mistaken, that easily has lethal possibilities.

 

[Micahc]

You want items? Main Peach then, or Diddy if you want bananas.

 

[PanzerOceania]

So you're suggesting Banana peels and Smoke Balls on very low should be the tournament standard? lol

The smoke ball is useless. Give one good reason it SHOULD BE ON. I've given reasons for it to be off.

The Banana peel is no better than the motion sensor bomb, except in the respect that it will only wind up in death if you hit it near an enemy. Hitting a banana peel could cause you to get hit by a rest or a maximum power charge shot. If I'm not mistaken, that easily has lethal possibilities.

reasons? mind games, added strategy, variety, complexity, and skill required.

if we really wanted things to be simple, we could just all play with marth, or all play with mario, on final destination only or hell, just see how fast we can beat level 9 computers, but with more characters and levels that aren't banned, there is variety, increased amount of possible outcomes and complexity.

sometimes in a tourney a player may not be as good on a certain allowed level, but that is what makes a good smash player is someone who can adapt and overcome in a variety of unique scenarios against opponents with a wide array of different playstyles and techniques. Variety is the spice of life man, and what pushes us to come up with more strategies, and what pushes the metagame.

the player has to think more and it allows more versatility.

You said mr. saturns can be used for edge guarding, and you are right, but there is no disadvantage to the person in the air.

the whole idea of why they (items) are unfair is one person has it and the other person doesn't (random, and advantage), but even if you had a Mr. Saturn when you were the one recovering it'd be virtually useless, so it's not like it's unfair, (in the sense that one player has it and the other player does not, because it wouldn't do the person recovering any good) it's just another layer of play.

the items I suggest give little direct advantage over the other player verbatim due to randomness, but they either A) are how you use them, or B) both players have to avoid, (like the banana) so their is no inherent advantage.

the same could be said for the other item, the smoke bomb, when used, can be used to confuse or suprise the opponent, and give you the edge, you could argue that, this is unfair to them, but I mean c'mon it's not like it give any damage itself.

the banana peel also, both characters have to avoid it, and it is in plain view, there is little to no advantage.

you telling me that these items have unfair advantages is like me telling you that a certain characers move is unfair because it does more damage than mine. It is all about how you use them in the situations. I think you should try it before you knock it.

yeah I don't see why having those 2, or 3 items on the low setting would be a bad thing for an item match, much like we have team matches.

I'm not suggesting we replace the main competition at tourneys, I'm just arguing that these are not random or unbalancing enough to be useless, they can be used competitively in special matches at tourneys.

so yeah, in conclusion, not threatening tourneys as we know it, just suggesting an additional event to compete in at tourneys.

 

[Crispy4001]

if we really wanted things to be simple, we could just all play with marth, or all play with mario, on final destination only

 

[Spellman]

reasons? mind games, added strategy, variety, complexity, and skill required.

You said mr. saturns can be used for edge guarding, and you are right, but there is no disadvantage to the person in the air.

the items I suggest give little direct advantage over the other player verbatim due to randomness, but they either A) are how you use them, or B) both players have to avoid, (like the banana) so their is no inherent advantage.

the same could be said for the other item, the smoke bomb, when used, can be used to confuse or suprise the opponent, and give you the edge, you could argue that, this is unfair to them, but I mean c'mon it's not like it give any damage itself.

the banana peel also, both characters have to avoid it, and it is in plain view, there is no advantage.

you telling me that these items have unfair advantages is like me telling you that a certain characers move is unfair because it does more damage than mine. It is all about how you use them in the situations. I think you should try it before you knock it.

yeah I don't see why having those 2, or 3 items on the low setting would be a bad thing for an item match, much like we have team matches.

I'm not suggesting we replace the main competition at tourneys, I'm just arguing that these are not random or unbalancing enough to be useless, they can be used competitively in special matches at tourneys.

so yeah, in conclusion, not threatening tourneys as we know it, just suggesting an additional event to compete in at tourneys.

I have to disagree with you there. Whether it's a Starman or a banana peel, the place the item chooses to land is random. As insignificant as a pebble in a fight seems, if a pebble happens to appear at random under my foot, it's still game bending interference. If the banana dropped near my opponent, or if it dropped near me, there could be two different outcomes to the fight, which can be blamed on the advantage the banana peel.

Having them on a low setting is even worse, as it may only grant one user the small advantage for the entire match, and there will be little chance of the tide of the battle to be evened out because there just aren't enough banana peels to go around.

I'm not against field changing items like that personally, but it goes against the concept of removing all random elements out of the battle.

 

[PanzerOceania]

fair enough, I'm not saying it is balanced by any means, let us get that pretention out of the way, this is why I am strongly apposed to it replacing the main tournament (not like it ever would lol)

seriously though, I don't think it's going to KILL a competative players game, and again, it is not the main event, but rather a side special match tourney at the side during tourneys. The balance effects of these items are minimal, while the complexity they add outweighs that. In the end it's worth it IMO. AGAIN as a SIDE EVENT, to train your skills in a DIFFERENT kind of competitive play.

tell me this? that they would be completely uncompetative, and so random that any noob could win a competative player. NOBODY will say that, the game is still controlled by skill.

I think it could add layers of complexity. I mean even the whole concept of tiers, is it fair to fight the highest level tier character vs. one from the lowest? yes and no right?

I think adding a small number of items for special matches is relatively the same, it give a bit of randomness, but it doesn't have a mind of it's own that can favor a character intentionally.

a seasoned player can overcome small obstacles.

it's a different playstyle undoubtedly. Just like playing 2 on 2 requires a different mindset and playstyle to cooperate to victory, so does this.

 

[goodkid]

Items are pretty random. I hate it when a bomb-om drops right on my character. Items do take skill to avoid and dodge them, but it takes more skill to beat someone without items.

 

[PanzerOceania]

Items are pretty random. I hate it when a bomb-om drops right on my character. Items do take skill to avoid and dodge them, but it takes more skill to beat someone without items.

we're not talking about bob-ombs charlie, read the last 5 pages.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

If you don't like it, organize you're own ****ing tournament. Stop telling people what to do and just take some god**** initiative. Casuals tend to say competitive players whine about the game, when in all reality they just have their own rules.

The bottom line is that no rule set is perfect, and if you aren't happy with the popular rule set, make your own. Don't try to tell everyone else what to do.

And for the love of god don't compare smash to games with health meters. COMPLETLY DIFFERENT STYLE OF GAME. Smash is unique, its more of a strategy game than a fighting game, it involves reaction time and a certain amount of "health" wherein you are more likely to die at a higher percent.

But remember, that in smash at percentages above 80%, it makes DI easier to take advantage of to avoid subsequent hits, and landing a powerful move on a great player is EXTREMELY hard, thats why just about every kill in high level smash is either a mindgame into a power hit, or a weak hit leading into a strong one.

Make your own rules, don't whine.

 

[Spellman]

I think it could add layers of complexity. I mean even the whole concept of tiers, is it fair to fight the highest level tier character vs. one from the lowest? yes and no right?

I think adding a small number of items for special matches is relatively the same, it give a bit of randomness, but it doesn't have a mind of it's own that can favor a character intentionally.

a seasoned player can overcome small obstacles.

it's a different playstyle undoubtedly. Just like playing 2 on 2 requires a different mindset and playstyle to cooperate to victory, so does this.

Oh yeah, don't get me wrong, I agree with you there. It DOES take skill to be able to overcome small obstacles, and even some of the biggest obstacles that items have to offer.

I don't see anything wrong with having special matches with the items you chose in it. It definitely takes skill, just need it to become popular.

 

[NES n00b]

Stuff

Or. . . . . . we could just realize how amazing Falcon is and play as him. Then every problem in the world will be solved as finally everyone has enough testerone to stop *****ing.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

Captain Falcon is the greatest character to ever exist.

Show me ya moves.

And the thing about him not being higher tier in brawl is because Isai hasnt gotten his hands on him

 

[PanzerOceania]

If you don't like it, organize you're own ****ing tournament. Stop telling people what to do and just take some god**** initiative. Casuals tend to say competitive players whine about the game, when in all reality they just have their own rules.

The bottom line is that no rule set is perfect, and if you aren't happy with the popular rule set, make your own. Don't try to tell everyone else what to do.

And for the love of god don't compare smash to games with health meters. COMPLETLY DIFFERENT STYLE OF GAME. Smash is unique, its more of a strategy game than a fighting game, it involves reaction time and a certain amount of "health" wherein you are more likely to die at a higher percent.

But remember, that in smash at percentages above 80%, it makes DI easier to take advantage of to avoid subsequent hits, and landing a powerful move on a great player is EXTREMELY hard, thats why just about every kill in high level smash is either a mindgame into a power hit, or a weak hit leading into a strong one.

Make your own rules, don't whine.

you weren't talking to me were you? I love no item matches as much as the next guy, and competative play in general (don't have the time or money to tourney very far from home, and no I'm not saying I ROCK, but I love playing competitive)

I think both can thrive, competitive, and select item matches, I don't believe in ALL item matches any more than I do ALL levels for competative play, because it deters from the competition.

They both rock, why can't we love them both? both are competative, and both are different. Of course not everyone has to like all. Not everyone likes team matches. I personally like all 3 modes of play.

 

[PanzerOceania]

isn't it true that you can start a round with an item?

that way it would be fair and unrandom, both players start with the same item, and you could even allow a greater range of items then because it would they would both have equal advantage.

 

[Yuna]

Items are random. They spawn at random spots (though said spots are fixed to a certain number of spots and certain spots for each stage) at random times and can benefit one player more than the other without anyone being able to do anything.

In other games, if someone's using the best character in the game, I can counterpick the same character. With items, I can still do it and still get screwed over by items because they are random. No matter what I do, the right items might spawn next to my opponent while the wrong ones spawn next to me.

Special Arts in Street Fighter are in no way random.

Yay randomness. No, the system is now flawed, your thinking is.

I'm sick and tired of people arguing for the use of items. Why do you so desperately wish to use items? Because "it's more fun"? This is competitive play. We want fair and balanced gameplay! If adding more things is fun while still keeping the gameplay fair and balanced, sure. If it isn't, then no way in 360!

Now until such a time that you can find a way to negate the randomness that items inherently bring with them, go away and never post about why we "must" use items and how we're wrong in not doing it again!

 

[PanzerOceania]

did you even read my post? I'm pretty sure you can start a match WITH an item. correct? I saw it in a few vids just a bit ago.

 

[Yuna]

did you even read my post? I'm pretty sure you can start a match WITH an item. correct? I saw it in a few vids just a bit ago.

Yeah, if you use Special Brawl.

And how the Hell does this negatve the inherent randomness of items?! So we both start with a specific item. And? Once the game's started, randomness will still decide who gets what item(s)!

Also, re-read my last post since I edited in a lot of things.

Until such time you find a way to break the game and negative the randomness that is inherent with item use, your argument holds zero water, even if we were to be able to find a way to balance items. Randomness will never be accepted in tournament play if it can be negated.

Super Meters are not comparable to Items. Super Meters have to be built up. You need to actually do something to get them. You can't stand around and have the Super Meter randomly charge up because the game felt like you should get that advantage. Super Meters can also not be used against you when you're comboing someone. A Super Meter won't randomly lag you while you're comboing someone or spawn above you and kill you (Bob-ombs, exploding containers, shells, though Bob-ombs and exploding containers can be removed in Brawl).

If a character is broken and/or has broken Supers/Special Arts, the opponent is also free to counterpick said character and use the same moves/Supers/Special Arts. With items, counterpicking the same character means squat if the opponent is still lucky enough to have the right items spawn at the right times and in the right places.

In Brawl, there's less hitstun. If you hit someone, they'll lag less than in Brawl. So you can hit someone and be about to combo them to death but if an item spawns right above you, you'll grab it in Brawl during your aerial. There is no way to prevent this from happening. Lucky you, your combo just got screwed over by randomness! Or maybe it's a crate which made your initial hit lag so much your opponent can airdodge out of the combo. Or maybe that weird Bomb Item which charges up, grows and then explodes spawned inside of you during your first aerial, then you accidentally threw it when comboing and you both got hit, only you die first because you had more damage.

Items are inherently random. Fix the randomness, then advocate using them.

 

[Lance87]

I like it how most of the people i'm seeing post an argument FOR items, has joined either late last year or this year.

Lol, you guys are silly.

Items = NoGo.

It's most likely gonna be tested in tournaments due to the huge number of you guys whining, but we're gonna end up not using items in tournaments, it just doesn't make sense.
No offense, but if you don't like the way tournaments are held, stick to Wifi and gamefaqs.

Please, for your own sakes, get over the fact that items won't be in tournaments, because they won't be, at least not for long if they're tested. Your base of new people that want items in tournaments with absolutely absurd reasoning is far less than us who have been going to tournaments for a while and will probably spend less than 5% of our lifetime of Brawl with items on, because they're random as **** and ruin competitive gameplay.

inb4newmemberflame

 

[FrozenRoy]

A note about my star rankings: The descriptions are just to give you an idea about what it might contain and shouldn't be considered gospel truth that all sets within have all elements of it. Mostly, consider what the numbers mean. 10 is best, 0 is worst, 5 is average, 6 above average etc

Star Rating Explanation​

- 10 Stars(0 Ranked): Yes, I actually give out ten stars. 10 star represents the best movesets and usually have a strong playstyle, excellent execution, cool concept or the like, and on top of that, usually have something I personally find exceptional, be it from exceptional character (which can easily put a high 9 into 10), exceptional execution of a tough concept, an exceptionally creative concept or so on. These are rare, but I usually put out about 1 a contest.

- 9 Stars (4 Ranked): Nine Star may sit a tier below, but these sets are still quite amazing, and represent the "top" tier below "best". These sets share similar qualities to a 10 star set, tight knit playstyles and/or cool concepts and/or amazing execution or the like, but they usually have a collection of little nagging problems or a single large problem that keep them from the coveted 10 stars, or they lack "exceptionality" that pushes them over the top.

- 8 Stars(4 Ranked): Eight star sets usually contain some greatness, for it is the "Great" tier below "Top", but they have flaws which I cannot overlook, characterization issues, weaker concepts or execution and so on, which keeps them more on the level of great sets that may not be as fondly remembered later on.

- 7 Stars(10 Ranked): Seven star is "good", the sets that you see and think "that's good", but just don't hit the marks of greatness. Maybe it's a lack of expansion of the concept, a shaky execution, no heart in the characterization, or some lackluster sections, but these sets simply stay in the spot of good, not great. Usually, sets with a lot of good and a lot of bad tend to end up here or in 6/5 as well.

- 6 Stars(8 Ranked): Six star is "above average". They're better than your average set, sure, but they don't exactly speak to me, or are heavily flawed, or are simply average sets with just enough enjoyment to them to put them a smidge higher, or what have you.

- 5 Stars(5 Ranked): Five stars is "average". It's hard to describe average, but that's what it is, something in the middle that I don't find especially good or bad, such as a moveset with a little good and a little bad, a general moveset that doesn't do anything offensive, or something with such large drops between good and bad that I can't get behind it either way. Average.

- 4 Stars(3 Ranked): For 4 stars, it is "below average". It isn't horribly bad or anything, but it's getting there, issues are starting to outweigh positives, maybe the characterization is far off your average-ish set, you've got some unavoidable number issues or your execution just wasn't up to snuff, but I can't get behind the set, though these sets fairly often have hidden gem concepts to be shined by later movesets.

- 3 Stars(7 Ranked): Three stars is when we get into "bad". These movesets actively detract from me a good deal and begin to lose redeeming elements, and often contain multiple large issues, such as terrible execution, lacking playstyle and bland or bad characterization, yet they lack the means to be truly, memorably bad.

- 2 Stars(3 Ranked): Two stars is "Bottom", and you've about hit rock bottom and have numerous issues that probably require large scale changing of your moveset, yet you lack the exceptional awfulness characteristic of the truly terrible 1 star movesets, and you usually fail to break the game.

- 1 Star(3 Ranked): At one star, the moveset is LOOOOOOOOATHED ENTIIIIIIIIIIIRELY.

---

Ranked Movesets

Number of MYM19 Sets Ranked: 48


*********
Knight
9/10

N. Brio
*********
9/10

Liz Eird
*********
9/10

Magearna
*********
9/10

Iguana
********
8/10

Izuna
********
8/10

Magellan
********
8/10

Thor
********
8/10

The Beast
********
8/10


Ira Gamagori
*******
7/10

Zenyatta
*******
7/10

Pinstripe
*******
7/10

Sucy Manbavaran
*******
7/10

Jr. Troopa
*******
7/10


Iron Man
*******
7/10
Comment Here

Hotel Mario Roy
*******
7/10

Turtonator
*******
7/10

Goldman and the Emperor
*******
7/10

Kizaru
*******
7/10

Miss Kobayashi
*******
7/10

Pain-Yatta
******
6/10

Storm
******
6/10


Captain America
******
6/10
Comment Here (NOTE: Comment Outdated)

Butterfree
******
6/10
Comment Here

Genis
******
6/10

Isaac
******
6/10


The Hulk
******
6/10

Marion Quinn
******
6/10

Inkling
******
6/10

Agatio
*****
5/10

Andy
*****
5/10

Blitzwing
*****
5/10

Nick Wilde
*****
5/10

Wolverine
*****
5/10

George Washington
****
4/10

Min Min
****
4/10

Ray
****
4/10

Necrid
***
3/10

Mimikyu
***
3/10

Tracer
****
3/10
Comment Here

Cyclops
***
3/10

Silent but Deadly
***
3/10

Shockwave
***
3/10

Celica
***
3/10

Sombra
**
2/10

Jestro
**
2/10

Armydillo
**
2/10

Alien Hominid
*
1/10

Wario
**
1/10

Petey Piranha
*
1/10
Comment Here

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

I will say it again: Go out and host an item tournament. YOU tell ME how it turns out. There is NO need to sit here and reason about it all day.

 

[PanzerOceania]

I like it how most of the people i'm seeing post an argument FOR items, has joined either late last year or this year.

Lol, you guys are silly.

just because I joined to talk on the smashboard this month doesn't mean I haven't been around for awhile, or that I'm some gamefaqs kiddie,

I also like competitive play, and play without items all the time

way to be an assuming jack*ss.

and of course you will say "oh I called it!" but seriously man, how about a little common respect.

 

[Puddin Master]

I agree with you almost completely. And to the person who said "I find it funny how most people for items have joined this year or late last year." And what's your point? I've browsed here for years. I only joined this place since Nsider went down. I once tried playing competitively. Just to see what it's like. Only on "fair stages", no items, advanced techniques. I did that for around 2 weeks. It was boring.

 

[Yuna]

just because I joined to talk on the smashboard this month doesn't mean I haven't been around for awhile, or that I'm some gamefaqs kiddie, way to be an assuming *******.

I also like competitive play, and play without items all the time

way to be an assuming jack*ss.

Then stop ignoring posts that happen to disagree with your views.

Tell me your solution to the randomness problem.

 

[PanzerOceania]

I have several times already, read my previous posts. The few items that I've put forth have little advantage from being random.

 

[Best101]

I agree with you almost completely. And to the person who said "I find it funny how most people for items have joined this year or late last year." And what's your point? I've browsed here for years. I only joined this place since Nsider went down. I once tried playing competitively. Just to see what it's like. Only on "fair stages", no items, advanced techniques. I did that for around 2 weeks. It was boring.

Try going to a tournament. You can play on whatever stages you want to play on in friendlies (I'm not sure you could turn items back on, it might slow the tournament down taking them off), but when it get down to the actual tournament you have to play by the rules. It's really fun when you get to try it. My first tournament here on this site was a lot of fun

*The following is not directed towards you*

If you don't go to tournaments then get off this thread, because none of the talk in this thread will concern non-tournament players. And those of you who think items should be in tournaments then I recommend you listen to the points the competitive Melee smashers has to put out there for you. They've had experience in the competitive scene, and a lot of it. So it would be wise to take their opinions into consideration. If you still don't like it then host a lot of tournaments with items on. Simple

 

[PanzerOceania]

I actually like no item matches (imagine that after this h*ll hole of a thread), I'm not for their downfall, but the addition of more types of matches in tournaments.

 

[Yuna]

I have several times already, read my previous posts. The few items that I've put forth have little advantage from being random.

Just for my sake, repeat them again. Repeat every single argument you can come up with that negates randomness being a factor when it comes to items.

 

[Jimiisama]

I agree with you almost completely. And to the person who said "I find it funny how most people for items have joined this year or late last year." And what's your point? I've browsed here for years. I only joined this place since Nsider went down. I once tried playing competitively. Just to see what it's like. Only on "fair stages", no items, advanced techniques. I did that for around 2 weeks. It was boring.

just because I joined to talk on the smashboard this month doesn't mean I haven't been around for awhile, or that I'm some gamefaqs kiddie,

I also like competitive play, and play without items all the time

way to be an assuming jack*ss.

and of course you will say "oh I called it!" but seriously man, how about a little common respect.

It's not necessarily about when you joined; it's about whether or not you've actually been to a tournament. Playing at home with your friends is entirely different from an actual tournament, and I think that's what late 2007 and 2008 members seem to not understand. I understand only joining the forum recently; I 've had an account for a while, but never felt a need to post. Recent ***gotry caused by Brawl gives me a reason.

 

[BentoBox]

I like how most of the people in favor of items in tourney play have no intention in even being active in the scene.

 

[fr0st2k]

i had a brilliant idea for items .. i wish i was sakurai so i could have made this game perfect for competitive smash..


anyway, the only way for items to exist in the competitive nature is this way :

Have a item generator appear on the screen randomly. It can't be hit, or interacted with at all....then a 10 second marker appears with what item is going to appear. after 10 seconds, the item is generated inside the generator, and you can pick it up.

Thats the only fair way to have items .. and it doesnt exist.

However .. i still think the smash ball can be played with competitively

 

[Yuna]

i had a brilliant idea for items .. i wish i was sakurai so i could have made this game perfect for competitive smash..


anyway, the only way for items to exist in the competitive nature is this way :

Have a item generator appear on the screen randomly. It can't be hit, or interacted with at all....then a 10 second marker appears with what item is going to appear. after 10 seconds, the item is generated inside the generator, and you can pick it up.

Thats the only fair way to have items .. and it doesnt exist.

Yeah, the game would devolve into people camping around the item generator. What if you got hit off-stage right when the generator appeared? You then get edgeguarded until the item appears and your opponent grabs it.

However .. i still think the smash ball can be played with competitively

Marth + Final Smash = God Tier.

Have you not listened to a single word me, MookieRah or any other reputable Smasher has said about Final Smashes in tournaments?! Heck, even self-professed Casual Gamers have stated that Final Smashes are too broken to be allowed in tournaments because of how broken some of them are and also because of the Randomness that is inherent with all items.

 

[fr0st2k]

Yeah, the game would devolve into people camping around the item generator. What if you got hit off-stage right when the generator appeared? You then get edgeguarded until the item appears and your opponent grabs it.

Then instead of dieing from being edgecamped to death (seeing that if he can do it for 10 seconds, he could probably do it until youre dead) . You get to survive, because the person camping you goes to run for the item.

What dont you understand ? This is the same bs as in the smash ball topic. A different metagame would evolve around camping the item generator. What if its fireflower? Is it really worth camping it? Can't you just avoid the other player, and strategically end up right near the item when it arrives? You lack creativity.

Marth + Final Smash = God Tier.

Have you not listened to a single word me, MookieRah or any other reputable Smasher has said about Final Smashes in tournaments?! Heck, even self-professed Casual Gamers have stated that Final Smashes are too broken to be allowed in tournaments because of how broken some of them are and also because of the Randomness that is inherent with all items.

Dude, i heard it ... i personally dont think anyone knows anything about Brawl yet. Its still too early. The fact that people still can't avoid marths FS is vexxing to me.

 

[BentoBox]

That would just make competitive play a lot more boring... And as far as items are concerned, the situation hasn't changed one bit from the Melee days, the same arguments keep being brought up. It's not ''too early''.

 

[BentoBox]

The Official, Sanctioned 'Casual Competition League' Discussion Thread

/endthread

 

[Sephi_hatu]

The Official, Sanctioned 'Casual Competition League' Discussion Thread

/endthread

Not to 4chan, but slowpoke, that got made last week, and people still felt the need to argue in this thread.

 

[Jimiisama]

Not to 4chan, but slowpoke, that got made last week, and people still felt the need to argue in this thread.

Rules 1 and 2? Slowpoke is dead anyway.

And there's no reason you can't post on a week old thread. The point of threads like these is to take all the discussion and put it in ONE THREAD. This board is so disorganized sometimes; who needs dozens of threads with the same topic? I understand recreating a thread when it's months old, but recreating a thread made last week is just bad forum practice.

 

[Sephi_hatu]

Rules 1 and 2? Slowpoke is dead anyway.

And there's no reason you can't post on a week old thread. The point of threads like these is to take all the discussion and put it in ONE THREAD. This board is so disorganized sometimes; who needs dozens of threads with the same topic? I understand recreating a thread when it's months old, but recreating a thread made last week is just bad forum practice.

Sorry, I just find it amusing that people can argue in circles for so long.