The SkyWorld Legality Discussion -->

[Ch0zen0ne]

Searched... Couldn't find a topic like this.

I have played in several tourneys where SkyWorld was legal... several where it was not. This stage isn't broken even with the large amount of stage spikes, so why are directors banning it? It is also NO WHERE near as stupid as Luigi's Mansion in regards to each life's % expectancy...

discuss?

 

[Andydark]

Sky world has an odd thing where if you get slammed into the ceiling at low percentages, its BASICALLY a meteor if the tile you were standing on had been destroyed (Assuming you land on that same tile)

If the platforms were more spaced out...

Plus, I'm pretty sure the tethers cannot tether on the clouds...

 

[Ch0zen0ne]

But if you're worried that much about it... then don't waste your ban on Lylat?

 

[crazyadhdlad]

I peronsally like this stage, for its effects on the platforms breaking down. Yes alot of people hate that stage and will try to never used them online but i dont get it either, just like no one likes the hannenbow stage. or 75m

 

[AlexX]

The main problem I see with the stage more than anything else is what it does to recoveries in general (not just tether-users). Basically, characters with recovery moves that are also attacks (which is the vast majority of them) risk breaking the platform they are attempting to grab the edge of.

 

[Rhubarbo]

No way is this stage legal! Playing in it is almost as bad as playing in the cave portion of Temple. This stage gets the ban hammer fo sho!

 

[Ch0zen0ne]

That doesn't really make sense though.. b/c Luigi's mansion's bottom level lasts MUCH longer than the bricks in SkyWorld... so with that logic.. Mansion should be banned aswell....

 

[Eternal Yoshi]

I don't know. Skyworld and Luigi's Mansion have circles, but they are destructable. I'd say CP.
P.S. For the bottom level of LM to be destroyeed, you must destroy the level above.

 

[2.72]

1. Comparing Skyworld to Luigi's Mansion would be a better argument if we knew for sure that Luigi's Mansion would be legal. Right now it sounds more like your making a case that the Mansion should be banned than that Skyworld should be legal.

2. Luigi's Mansion doesn't have the issues with recovery that Skyworld has, it doesn't turn into a game of "if you miss a tech, you die," and the cave of life isn't nearly as bad in Luigi's Mansion. Vertical KOs are still possible (even reasonable) in the center, and it's not terribly hard to force someone either outside or towards the center, and if you can knock down part of the mansion it opens up significantly (and permanently, or at least until the rest of the mansion falls).

 

[127crazie]

I'm not going to make several paragraphs of points here, but I want to say that I hate Skyworld. It does remind me of Temple's "fight club."

I don't play on Luigi's Mansion much but if that has to be banned along with Skyworld so be it.

 

[fkacyan]

That doesn't really make sense though.. b/c Luigi's mansion's bottom level lasts MUCH longer than the bricks in SkyWorld... so with that logic.. Mansion should be banned aswell....

I'm sorry, but destroying a section of Mansion and then hitting a tether character through it doesn't constitute killing them like it does in Sky World.

Both stages should be permabanned, or LM as a counterpick at best.

 

[hova]

since when does a character having poor recovery on a stage justify a ban? if there is no broken strategy and the level does not promote camping then a stage should not be banned

the point of a counterpick is to put your opponent at the greatest disadvantage possible. abusing poor recoveries or forcing your opponent to pick a character that is not their best just to deal with level hazards are both viable reasons to use a stage

 

[Charizard92]

Look, both stages have the same problem, they are nearly completely destructible and can turn the match on its head and force a change in strategy (Luigi's Mansion turns from platform maze [sorta] to flat ground and skyworld turns from cave of life into a meteor smash medley). I put both on my counter pick list because that's all that happens.

 

[fkacyan]

since when does a character having poor recovery on a stage justify a ban? if there is no broken strategy and the level does not promote camping then a stage should not be banned

the point of a counterpick is to put your opponent at the greatest disadvantage possible. abusing poor recoveries or forcing your opponent to pick a character that is not their best just to deal with level hazards are both viable reasons to use a stage

There's giving them a disadvantage and outright gimping them. Two very big differences.

The issue wouldn't be nearly as much of an issue if the tethers would sweetspot better (And a few other recoveries), but I've seen them just hit the stage and break the platform rather than grabbing on like it's supposed to.

 

[GofG]

I believe this match should demonstrate clearly why this stage should be banned: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R21f3Ozi7YU

I was not put at a "disadvantage" by the stage. I was gayed four times before anyone else had died.

 

[Artery_Clogger]

Green Greens should be the only legal stage, discuss.

 

[Ch0zen0ne]

Reguardless of whether or not you tech, it shouldn't really make a difference... If you're being gimped on Skyworld, spam Dsmash on the top two bricks before you walk down to the bottom? That's like saying... Corneria is BS b/c DDD can infinite me down there... >_>

Don't go down there.

 

[boss8]

theres always a solution....if ROB wants to be a *** and downsmash at skyworld then let him be a *** and do it......just don't go near him towards the bottom...just camp on the top......and deedeedee do the same....other wise i just ban...them....i mean i like all stages MUWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! can't touch dis...

 

[_Vulcan_]

Besides the fact that it rbuilds over me when im trying to recover...now that i think a bout it its not that bad.

 

[Ch0zen0ne]

The real battle here is between the persons in this thread that truely believe that SkyWorld should be legal.. and the tournament directors that think it is a B*LLSH*T stage...

CounterPick Yes.

Banned No.

Hyrule was originally banned, not only due to its "Rockin Fun Zone" but also due to it being F*CKING HUGE.

Norfair is ALOT gayier than SkyWorld... every play a tether toon on that stage... chyeah.. they can grab EVERYTHING....

 

[goodoldganon]

Norfair is ALOT gayier than SkyWorld... every play a tether toon on that stage... chyeah.. they can grab EVERYTHING....

Heaven forbid the tether characters can 'counterpick' a stage where they aren't so easily gimped.

But the point of this topic isn't about what stages should be banned this is ONLY about Skyworld. As you can see from the video, it is very easy to get screwed over to a circumstance completely outside of your control. It is absurd to be killed by that stage at such low percentages because you missed a tech or the stage rebuilt itself as you were recovering.

So far, I haven't seen any solid reasons why to not ban this stage. You give me solid reasons and I'll look at them, but as of now there are more reasons to ban Skyworld then unban it.

-Makes a 'Hyrule Temple' esque effect if the platforms are there.
-Stage gimps recovery without rhyme or reason
-Ridiculous low percentage kills
-Meteor Smash on the clouds = dead

Are the major reasons to ban Skyworld

 

[trampoline BOY]

Directors are banning it because directors are stupid.

 

[Ch0zen0ne]

So far, I haven't seen any solid reasons why to not ban this stage. You give me solid reasons and I'll look at them, but as of now there are more reasons to ban Skyworld then unban it.

-Makes a 'Hyrule Temple' esque effect if the platforms are there.
-Stage gimps recovery without rhyme or reason
-Ridiculous low percentage kills
-Meteor Smash on the clouds = dead

Are the major reasons to ban Skyworld

Have you seriously ever played Against a MetaKnight on Rainbow Cruise...

Also.. on SkyWorld the bricks are on a TIMER to respawn... so it's not totally random.

And "Meteor Smash on the Clouds"... do you mean "through the clouds"? b/c you can do that on ALOT of NEUTRAL stages.

 

[127crazie]

Also.. on SkyWorld the bricks are on a TIMER to respawn... so it's not totally random.

Yes, but you can't time when you're being attacked through the clouds so you can make it back.

The point is that the bricks reappear over you when you're trying to get back up.

 

[Rhubarbo]

Have you seriously ever played Against a MetaKnight on Rainbow Cruise...

Also.. on SkyWorld the bricks are on a TIMER to respawn... so it's not totally random.

And "Meteor Smash on the Clouds"... do you mean "through the clouds"? b/c you can do that on ALOT of NEUTRAL stages.

Yeah, that happens on Battle Field, Final Destination, Yoshi's Island, Lylat Cruise, Smashville and Pokemon Stadium. **Tone of sarcasm**

Skyworld and Luigi's Mansion are BOTH going to be banned eventually.

 

[WuTangDude]

That doesn't really make sense though.. b/c Luigi's mansion's bottom level lasts MUCH longer than the bricks in SkyWorld... so with that logic.. Mansion should be banned aswell....

The ground of Luigi's mansion aren't clouds that cna be spiked through.

 

[hippochinfat!!]

You get stage spiked way to much and recoveries get gimped all the time.

 

[Ch0zen0ne]

The ground of Luigi's mansion aren't clouds that cna be spiked through.

I guess Delfino should be banned too then?

 

[MzNetta]

This topic is seriously full of fail.
I refuse to believe that ANYONE is genuinely upset with this stage being banned.
It's a joke.
Countless reasons say so.
0 say otherwise.
Of course, not including those that only want to bring DECENT stages down with them.
Just stop.

 

[Eten]

There's giving them a disadvantage and outright gimping them. Two very big differences.

Orlly? If they're "very big differences" define them for me. I know you can't without revealing an inclusion of bias! This is a bull**** argument.

****, ban Skyworld? Look
-It isn't random
-You can't stall on it infinitely(it has no loop)
People commonly complain about two things. One: "It's easy to get gimped and die!" and Two: "It's easy to stay in the center and live forever with teching!" sounds like the two component add up and negate each other when people use proper stage manipulation.
Skyworld shouldn't be banned.

 

[TehBo49]

That video points out several reasons why Skyworld should be banned.

1) It's WAY too easy to get stage spiked. If the bottom platform is destroyed in one location & the top one is still intact, then most u-smashes can spike someone as low as 30%. Some even lower. Also, if you try to recover from below, the platform could reappear & spike you. Even if it doesn't, the top one could as well.

2) The destroyable edges really hurt tether recoveries. Not just them, but it can also hurt normal recoveries. Let's say you're recovering from a downward angle. Your recovery is long enough that you can just make it to the edge. But guess what? Your opponent is there & destroys the ledge. Or you break it with your recovery.

3) The inner part of the level has a Cave of Life effect. Even though the platforms can be destroyed, players can still survive for an unnaturally long amount of time.

4) The level has several loops that can be taken advantage of. Even with breakable platforms, there are still enough loops to take advantage of that you can just switch between them if one is destroyed.

5) It's very easy to camp in the inner part of the level. Sure, you don't have to go down there. But what if the camping player has a stock advantage? Then you have to go down there, giving them a significant advantage.

Thus, the stage is banned.

 

[MzNetta]

Orlly? If they're "very big differences" define them for me. I know you can't without revealing an inclusion of bias! This is a bull**** argument.

****, ban Skyworld? Look
-It isn't random
-You can't stall on it infinitely(it has no loop)
People commonly complain about two things. One: "It's easy to get gimped and die!" and Two: "It's easy to stay in the center and live forever with teching!" sounds like the two component add up and negate each other when people use proper stage manipulation.
Skyworld shouldn't be banned.

You, sir, are wrong.
Why?
READ the posts in this thread.


It's as if they took the most undesirable aspects of each stage, combined them into one, and asked you to defend it.

 

[Eten]

You, sir, are wrong.
Why?
READ the posts in this thread.


It's as if they took the most undesirable aspects of each stage, combined them into one, and asked you to defend it.

You, sir, are wrong.
Why?
READ the posts in this thread.

It's as if any stage breaks from the norm of battlefield, it's automatically got these OBVIOUS problems that it needs to be banned.

...

You can't just tell someone that they're wrong and expect it to fly. There is something wrong with Wario ware(randomness). There is something wrong with Great Temple(big loop). But what is wrong with a stage that has breakable platforms, and to have these platforms broken and then KOing people with any sort of spike? That sort of stage manipulation is only going to favor good players, talented players, that put it to use, which is exactly what you want in a competitive setting. This isn't random lasers shooting from the backround damage hazards, this isn't bombs falling onto your head KOing you, it's just a stage that favors some slightly different elements like spiking, teching, and platform breaking.

And somehow that makes it a bannable stage with combined undesirably aspects?

 

[TehBo49]

^And the ease of exploiting those elements is just as bad as random lasers & bombs.

 

[Eten]

^And the ease of exploiting those elements is just as bad as random lasers & bombs.

And how do you come to that conclusion? You need to explain.

 

[---]

First of all Skyworld as we all know is a odd stage in terms of recovery since the floors get in the way. You can say that it's like recovering from under a stage like Battlefield for example. However since the floors dissapear it's a little kinder than other stages in that term. And if they are there in the way, any good smash player should easily be able to recover, if not the moving platform under the stage should help even more. But if the platform is not there then you are to far down to recover anyway, so don't complain about it. Also since the platforms keep you in let Temple it's not a big deal since the platform's do break so they also keep you out too. Skyworld should be legal.

 

[MzNetta]

How about we leave the decision to the tournament directors?
Because no intelligent, and well organized director would allow such a stage, we will be able to easily weed out the crappy tournaments.
That pleases everyone, no?

 

[fkacyan]

How about we leave the decision to the tournament directors?
Because no intelligent, and well organized director would allow such a stage, we will be able to easily weed out the crappy tournaments.
That pleases everyone, no?

I feel win brewing in this statement.

Skyworld was banned at every tourney I've played in, and only one was a tourney to go TEHLULZ at.

 

[Ch0zen0ne]

I am a tournament director. I feel that this stage should be legal... why.. b/c though it can be quite "gay" so to speak, it is also not completely ridiculous..

I think we should ban Lylat... b/c Kirby can Suck you up if you're next to the ledge, and shoot you out under the stage. Wow that makes Lylat too gay >_>

Halberd has a big Lazer that Kills n shiz... that stage should be banned >_>

I've been gimped TOO MANY TIMES by the water on Pirate Ship.. and the SHIP CAN KILL ME TOO OMG WTFBBQSAUCE >_> and there are CANNON BALLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

seriously.. there are enough legal dumb stages that you can't really john about SkyWorld, b/c you're too much of a nub, to NOT go down in the middle of the stage where a mario is Utilting, or an ROB is Dsmashing...

Smashers are saying this thread is full of fail.. i think ALOT of the people that want this stage banned are skill = fail.

EVERY NEUTRAL STAGE FAVORS MetaKnight.

wft is that.

No Jones.

 

[slikvik]

you can tech the ceiling