The Sassy Princess of Sarasaland: Daisy Discussion

[Freelance Spy]

Daisy got shown off in the training mode announcement section of the 8.8.18 direct. Is nobody going to talk about that? I'm not a peach main so I don't know what to think about side b doing 5%

 

[Luminario]

Daisy got shown off in the training mode announcement section of the 8.8.18 direct. Is nobody going to talk about that? I'm not a peach main so I don't know what to think about side b doing 5%

Wasn't even paying attention to the %, just to Daisy herself . From what I can see in the direct side B actually does 14% which is pretty impressive. I'll just type up the numbers here. Didn't count the decimal % though so these are just rough numbers.
Dash: 1st hitbox: 5% 2nd: 7%
Side B: 14%
Fair: 17% noice

 

[Ark of Silence101]

Wasn't even paying attention to the %, just to Daisy herself . From what I can see in the direct side B actually does 14% which is pretty impressive. I'll just type up the numbers here. Didn't count the decimal % though so these are just rough numbers.
Dash: 1st hitbox: 5% 2nd: 7%
Side B: 14%
Fair: 17% noice

That much? Really hope knockback is at least decent to get ko's at reasonable %.

 

[Diem]

(Source)

I like the idea of Daisy being the mascot for Echo Fighters.

 

[Mrs.Milky]

It's more that they don't really fit Daisy. She wasn't in Super Mario Bros. 2, where the turnips originated. Peach was in that game, so it makes sense.

Something like a carrot from Super Mario Land, Daisy's debut title, would be a lot better. But it's obviously nothing to get up in arms about.

I would like to throw carrots at people now

 

[DaisyandRosalina]

Wasn't even paying attention to the %, just to Daisy herself . From what I can see in the direct side B actually does 14% which is pretty impressive. I'll just type up the numbers here. Didn't count the decimal % though so these are just rough numbers.
Dash: 1st hitbox: 5% 2nd: 7%
Side B: 14%
Fair: 17% noice

Some of them appears to be much stronger than Peach's, so I guess Daisy is the strongest princess? I guess she may have less land speed than Peach, hopefully not. Both Peach and Daisy had running moments in the direct so we can compare them, but I can't see which one is faster.

 

[Luminario]

Some of them appears to be much stronger than Peach's, so I guess Daisy is the strongest princess? I guess she may have less land speed than Peach, hopefully not. Both Peach and Daisy had running moments in the direct so we can compare them, but I can't see which one is faster.

Don't echoes need to be identical when it comes to speed and such? Besides Chrom's up B every echo seems to perfectly mirror the source characters frame data. My guess is knockback from a few attacks will be slightly different and side smash might have a different order, also a different FS, so nothing they've shown us in the directs so far. We also haven't seen Peach's attack %s yet, so we have no idea on if there are any differences at all between the 2 besides personality.

 

[DaisyandRosalina]

Don't echoes need to be identical when it comes to speed and such? Besides Chrom's up B every echo seems to perfectly mirror the source characters frame data. My guess is knockback from a few attacks will be slightly different and side smash might have a different order, also a different FS, so nothing they've shown us in the directs so far. We also haven't seen Peach's attack %s yet, so we have no idea on if there are any differences at all between the 2 besides personality.

Well, I doubit they will be 100% the same with stuff like thar, otherwhise what's the reason of the echoing?

 

[Luminario]

Well, I doubit they will be 100% the same with stuff like thar, otherwhise what's the reason of the echoing?

Yeah it's probably not 100%, but we haven't seen any differences so far so I'm guessing it's a Dark Pit situation where it's just FS and other smaller things. I think the stats do have to stay the same though, cause if they get changed then they have to go through the balancing process and the whole point of echoes is how easy it is to add them without going through that.

 

[Meru.]

That much? Really hope knockback is at least decent to get ko's at reasonable %.

Only SideB got buffed, the other moves do more damage thanks to the 1.2x multiplier that applies in Singles only. Fair's damage likely got nerfed in Free For All. It should have done 18% with the 1.2x multiplier if the base damage was still 15%, but it doing 16.8% suggests the base damage is 14%. Its great that they didnt nerf her damage in Singles tho, being at the high side it could have been nerfed.

Reducing a move's base damage automatically reduces the knockback as well, but they could have slightly adjusted the knockback so it would remain just as strong, but not do 18%. Judging from the blue line (that indicates where opponents fly to at 100%) her knockback on Fair still seems pretty strong thankfully. On top of that, the lag has also been visibly reduced as well.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Only SideB got buffed, the other moves do more damage thanks to the 1.2x multiplier that applies in Singles only. Fair's damage likely got nerfed in Free For All. It should have done 18% with the 1.2x multiplier if the base damage was still 15%, but it doing 16.8% suggests the base damage is 14%. Its great that they didnt nerf her damage in Singles tho, being at the high side it could have been nerfed.

Reducing a move's base damage automatically reduces the knockback as well, but they could have slightly adjusted the knockback so it would remain just as strong, but not do 18%. Judging from the blue line (that indicates where opponents fly to at 100%) her knockback on Fair still seems pretty strong thankfully. On top of that, the lag has also been visibly reduced as well.

View attachment 157043

Looks like the plan of attack when December 7th rolls around is to unlock Peach and Daisy ASAP and spend a few hours in training mode.

 

[GunBlaze]

I'm currently incapable of watching videos atm, but was it actually confirmed Turnips were a thing for Daisy?

If so, a screenshot, please?

 

[WeirdChillFever]

I'm currently incapable of watching videos atm, but was it actually confirmed Turnips were a thing for Daisy?

If so, a screenshot, please?

Spoiler: Big image

 

[GunBlaze]

Spoiler: Big image

View attachment 157093

OUCH.

Thanks anyway.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Daisy appeared in several clips from the Direct, and:

-Jab is the same
-Dash Attack is the same
-Peach's Up Air was shown, and it has 2 rainbows instead of 1 like in Sm4sh.
-Daisy uses Turnips. :/

Here's hoping we get some fun changes come December.

I'm honestly flabbergasted by all this now. What is so significantly different about her compared to Peach? It really disappoints me to see how my fears about Daisy's sheer unoriginality in Peach's mold just keep getting worse, especially after having seen Chrom and really approving how they went about with Simon and Richter.

At this point I'm believing she was meant to be a pure alt like Alph and Koopalings were, but was upgraded to an Echo status for unknown reason. Really confuses me why she's getting this type of treatment.

 

[Almand]

I'm honestly flabbergasted by all this now. What is so significantly different about her compared to Peach? It really disappoints me to see how my fears about Daisy's sheer unoriginality in Peach's mold just keep getting worse, especially after having seen Chrom and really approving how they went about with Simon and Richter.

At this point I'm believing she was meant to be a pure alt like Alph and Koopalings were, but was upgraded to an Echo status for unknown reason. Really confuses me why she's getting this type of treatment.

To quote her reveal: "They look similar, but their moves behave differently." My best guess is that a few combo and kill moves might be tossed and turned around. Up Tilt might lightly combo instead of Down Tilt on Peach, Dair might be used differently, one or two moves might be faster/slower and have higher/lower damage. But I agree, what we've seen so far is a little disappointing, and giving her turnips just feels like a slap in the face.

All in all, though, we haven't seen much of Peach OR Daisy, so we really don't know anything about either of them. We'll all see on release, I guess, but after the reveals we've gotten so far... I don't have the highest hopes for Daisy being that unique, moveset-wise.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

My theory is they went in with different animations in mind but no balance changes. They still may be in the process of Luigifying them as we speak.

 

[Almand]

My theory is they went in with different animations in mind but no balance changes. They still may be in the process of Luigifying them as we speak.

Personally, I think Echoes come in one of a few brands:

-Purely animation changes (a la Dark Samus)
-One or two entirely different moves from their base (Chrom's Up B)
-Move balance/utility changes (Dark Pit's Side/Neutral B)

Idle animations, taunts, victory animations, etc., come standard and are not affiliated/altered by which brand the character has. Chrom, for example, has a different idle animation, but he also has Ike's Up B. Dark Samus seems to have zero actual balance changes, but every move has been reanimated, leading me to believe that's the only change; purely aesthetic and the two characters of Samus and her Dark Variant will play 100% the same (the closest to a glorified alt you can get).

Daisy has the same run, walk, float, and almost the same move animations as Peach (Aside from a few differences like Neutral B and Up B's parasol float, as mentioned in this thread before). But that begs the question, which of the other two will she get, considering her changes aren't purely visual? The only moves we haven't confirmed are the same as Peach are Down Tilt, Down Air, and Up/Forward/Back Throw, so I'm gonna rule out option 2 just based on "Why would they change something so trivial." Which leads us to option 3, which I think is the most likely because of the whole "They look similar, but their moves behave differently" thing that accompanied her launch. But without Peach or Daisy being shown too much in detail, we probably won't discover the actual differences until the game actually launches, unless they do a little "What's different about each Echo?" thing in a future Direct.

 

[GunBlaze]

Chrom, for example, has a different idle animation, but he also has Ike's Up B.

Well, half of it.

The first half is Marcina's Up Tilt.

 

[Seanp12]

I think at this point there are no parameters for echoes vs. clones. All echo fighter means is "we guessed that if we gave clones a special name and told you that we might not add many characters, you'd stop hating them." Or so it seems to me.

 

[Banjo-Kazooie]

Right now, Chrom and Dark Samus are making the rest of the echo fighters look bad. If anything, there is the hope that it wasn't the final version of Daisy on the trailers and there are changes to be done that will make her differentiate.
Could be worse, she could be like Alph and only get 4 color palettes.

 

[The Puffer]

Has anyone seen Daisy use anything else aside from the golf club for her f-smash?? I think I may be wrong, but as far as I’m concerned, I’ve only seen her using the golf club, so maybe she’ll have a more consistent f-smash??

 

[Almand]

Has anyone seen Daisy use anything else aside from the golf club for her f-smash?? I think I may be wrong, but as far as I’m concerned, I’ve only seen her using the golf club, so maybe she’ll have a more consistent f-smash??

As far as I know, F-Smash has only been shown once or twice, so it's probably just a coincidence. Peach's seems to be back to the random order from Melee (though it could be based on which way you angle it, which would be cool), so it's safe to say Daisy has all three, too. It would be sorta interesting to see what Sakurai cooks up to balance all three, though.

 

[DaisyandRosalina]

Personally, I think Echoes come in one of a few brands:

-Purely animation changes (a la Dark Samus)
-One or two entirely different moves from their base (Chrom's Up B)
-Move balance/utility changes (Dark Pit's Side/Neutral B)

Idle animations, taunts, victory animations, etc., come standard and are not affiliated/altered by which brand the character has. Chrom, for example, has a different idle animation, but he also has Ike's Up B. Dark Samus seems to have zero actual balance changes, but every move has been reanimated, leading me to believe that's the only change; purely aesthetic and the two characters of Samus and her Dark Variant will play 100% the same (the closest to a glorified alt you can get).

Daisy has the same run, walk, float, and almost the same move animations as Peach (Aside from a few differences like Neutral B and Up B's parasol float, as mentioned in this thread before). But that begs the question, which of the other two will she get, considering her changes aren't purely visual? The only moves we haven't confirmed are the same as Peach are Down Tilt, Down Air, and Up/Forward/Back Throw, so I'm gonna rule out option 2 just based on "Why would they change something so trivial." Which leads us to option 3, which I think is the most likely because of the whole "They look similar, but their moves behave differently" thing that accompanied her launch. But without Peach or Daisy being shown too much in detail, we probably won't discover the actual differences until the game actually launches, unless they do a little "What's different about each Echo?" thing in a future Direct.

For what I have seen, Daisy runs with her mouth open while Peach's is closed. It doesn't really changes much but still.

 

[Fell God]

Not really a fan of the princesses' playstyles but I just dropped in to suggest an interesting possibility (may already have been brought up) but what if Daisy can pull different items than Peach? (i.e. Beam Sword and Fire Flower instead of Bob-Omb and Mr. Saturn)

 

[Dandelionel]

As far as I know, F-Smash has only been shown once or twice, so it's probably just a coincidence. Peach's seems to be back to the random order from Melee (though it could be based on which way you angle it, which would be cool), so it's safe to say Daisy has all three, too. It would be sorta interesting to see what Sakurai cooks up to balance all three, though.

I mean, it's likely that she has all 3 but she could just have the golf club for 2 reasons: First, Peach's tennis racket is well, Peach's. If Daisy used it it would need a redesign. And second, the pan was only used by Peach in the Super Mario RPG game (but Daisy uses turnips so meh)
All in all, maybe they went the lazy route of just giving her the golf club but seeing how she is turning to be, I hope they go with that. It would give her a difference and it would make her more consistent. I just don't want Daisy to share a tier list spot with Peach...

 

[DaisyandRosalina]

Sonething about aesthetic: for those woried that Peach and Daisy shares the same walking and running animations, they don't.
While running Peach's dress is more... open and takes more space, her hands kinda looks floatier too, the hands seems to change on her running animation as well (look at the one far from the camera) and Daisy runs with her mouth open.

EDIT: same for the jumping animation.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

I think the main thing for Echos is they're close enough in height, weight and speed so that all combos against them work the same as they do on their "parent". Young Link may have almost the same moveset but being lighter means every single character in the roster has to be tested against him which is exponentially more work. Everything else, they just need to see that the Echo can do a similar job of taking care of fighting Mario, Bowser and Pichu to make sure they didn't gain/loose anything that would break them/the game.

 

[StarCrystal20]

Sonething about aesthetic: for those woried that Peach and Daisy shares the same walking and running animations, they don't.
While running Peach's dress is more... open and takes more space, her hands kinda looks floatier too, the hands seems to change on her running animation as well (look at the one far from the camera) and Daisy runs with her mouth open.
View attachment 157235View attachment 157236View attachment 157237View attachment 157238View attachment 157239

EDIT: same for the jumping animation.
View attachment 157241

To be honest, I don’t see any difference between their running/jump other than an open mouth for Daisy. Looks the same.

At this point I’m hoping for a new final smash and for her to be relevant in the speculated story mode lol

 

[DaisyandRosalina]

To be honest, I don’t see any difference between their running/jump other than an open mouth for Daisy. Looks the same.

At this point I’m hoping for a new final smash and for her to be relevant in the speculated story mode lol

The run seems to have a sighlitly altered pose and even if it's not a huge detail it's still a difference, I mean most of the echoes differences are small like Dark Samus using one hand instead of two.

 

[Babycowland]

I know I'm really late, but I just wanted to say that I'm really happy that our favorite spunky princess will finally be playable in Ultimate. It's been a long time coming and I think she's earned it. Although it'd be nice if she had a completely unique moveset, I'm honestly just happy she's in the game. Three cheers for Daisy.

 

[Mrs.Milky]

Does anyone else feel that Daisy should've been in smash earlier? or at least in the last smash game

 

[Almand]

Does anyone else feel that Daisy should've been in smash earlier? or at least in the last smash game

She 100% deserved to be in Melee alongside Peach so we could have both princesses, but I suppose this thread is a little biased in that regard.

 

[StarCrystal20]

I hope daisy is relevant in the story mode

Her being a newcomer increases her chances of being important in it.

 

[Deleted member]

Does anyone else feel that Daisy should've been in smash earlier? or at least in the last smash game

See I thought this as well, what with Smash 4 making a big deal about alt costumes, a few of which turned into clones. And Daisy had been an alternate color of Peach since Melee....

Anyway she may not be much different from Peach at all but here's the thing: I never played much of Peach, but I expect I'll play a lot of 'Daisy'. It's a heck of a lot more fun to actually play as a character rather than a costume referencing a character, even if they play the same as someone else. So really I just see this as a huge upgrade from her prior costume reference/not being playable at all.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

See I thought this as well, what with Smash 4 making a big deal about alt costumes, a few of which turned into clones. And Daisy had been an alternate color of Peach since Melee....

Anyway she may not be much different from Peach at all but here's the thing: I never played much of Peach, but I expect I'll play a lot of 'Daisy'. It's a heck of a lot more fun to actually play as a character rather than a costume referencing a character, even if they play the same as someone else. So really I just see this as a huge upgrade from her prior costume reference/not being playable at all.

Yeah, even if Daisy's got the same moveset, she has the most important thing, her personality.

And Denna Mustard voicing her ^_^

 

[StarCrystal20]

Yeah, even if Daisy's got the same moveset, she has the most important thing, her personality.

And Denna Mustard voicing her ^_^

Agreed; despite having the same moves, her personality and voice will definitely shine through.

And most moves kind of look natural on Daisy anyway.

 

[Mrs.Milky]

Yeah, even if Daisy's got the same moveset, she has the most important thing, her personality.

And Denna Mustard voicing her ^_^

I'm interested in seeing how daisy's voice plays out in smash

 

[StarCrystal20]

Guys if there’s a story mode what do you think Daisy’s role would be

 

[Almand]

Guys if there’s a story mode what do you think Daisy’s role would be

Considering the "Spirits" thing is real, and one side goal is to free Luigi's ghost after he canonically died, Daisy better be the one to revive him. Calling it now.