The Sassy Princess of Sarasaland: Daisy Discussion

[Freduardo]

I'm kind of mixed on this idea to be quite honest. I really like the way you handled the transitions being tied to the bosses, but I'm also not a fan of stage bosses.


I think this would probably be one of the best ways to handle it now that you bring it up. What do you think they could use for the actual transitions? MKU uses Kamek iirc.


The layout on some portions of transforming/traveling stages can be pretty hit or miss, but that really depends on how they handle each transition. I get where you're coming from, but I'd still go for all four. I think it'd be fine if they handled it similarly to Delfino Plaza or something along those lines. It really just comes down to how they'd decide to design such a stage, which in all likelihood would probably be something annoying to navigate unfortunately.

That's why I added 'or enough time elapses', so it could work with a game where stage bosses were things that could be toggled on and off.

 

[Ark of Silence101]

That's why I added 'or enough time elapses', so it could work with a game where stage bosses were things that could be toggled on and off.

This. Smash would be even better if it had this feature. If Sarasaland became a stage and had an annoying gimmick, with this feature, boom, problem solved.

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

This. Smash would be even better if it had this feature. If Sarasaland became a stage and had an annoying gimmick, with this feature, boom, problem solved.

Only reason why Sakurai was against it was because he didn't want to steal PlayStation All Stars' rumble.

Which all itself is a pretty silly reason I guess.

We do need a feature like that, especially if we get a Sarasaland stage that would be needed it.

 

[NuzTheMonkey]

I can see Daisy's attacks being centered around flowers, as attacks are centered around hearts and rainbows ().

 

[Kirbeh]

I can see Daisy's attacks being centered around flowers, as attacks are centered around hearts and rainbows ().

For aesthetic purposes sure, but Peach only has hearts in like 2 moves, U-Tilt and Side B. The rainbow only shows up in U-Air. Or are you referring to the actual spin-offs as opposed to Smash Bros.?

 

[Guybrush20X6]

For aesthetic purposes sure, but Peach only has hearts in like 2 moves, U-Tilt and Side B. The rainbow only shows up in U-Air. Or are you referring to the actual spin-offs as opposed to Smash Bros.?

Yeah there's a lot of rainbows and love hearts in her spin-off powers.

 

[Ark of Silence101]

Only reason why Sakurai was against it was because he didn't want to steal PlayStation All Stars' rumble.

Which all itself is a pretty silly reason I guess.

We do need a feature like that, especially if we get a Sarasaland stage that would be needed it.

Especially if the Lion from Birabuto where to appear as a gimmick in that area, oh the possibilities.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Nobody posted so I dumped a draft in the post below pls understand
I've been thinking about Piranha Plant Daisy still and even though it's never something that Sakurai would pick for Daisy, it does have a lot of potential

I mean look at how I can perfectly replicate multiple "unique" movesets:

:
Neutral B: Venus Plant Shot:
The Piranha Plant opens its mouth and charges a big ball of goop that stuns opponents.

Side B: Plant Lunch
The Piranha Plant lunges with its neck, biting the opponents' leg and immobilising it

Up B: Flower Wings
The Piranha Plant dons a set of wings like in Mario Maker and jumps up

Down B: Goop Slam
If Daisy is hit, the Piranha Plant counters by spouting up goop in all directions.
Which looks like a dragon.
Lol


Neutral B: Plant Launch
Daisy pushes the Potted Piranha Plant Cart forward

Side B: Nippers
The Plant spews a few Nipper seeds forward

Up B: Flower Launch
Daisy summons a Flower Trampoline to jump from

Down B: Tornado Pull
The Plant swings its neck around to create a tornado that sucks in items

You guys have any other sets to replicate with this idea?

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Since Poison Daisy isn't really the way to go, I wanted to continue making a general Daisy moveset, but because thinking of specific moves is really hard here's another one of my moveset design concepts.

Basically I've thought of all the elements a Daisy moveset could and should have when it comes to gameplay.

First is the ball.
Daisy must have a move where she summons a ball.
This way, she has a projectile that she can use to create comboes and extend her range
While the ball is potentially a great way to poke at mid-range, it'd require great technique to consistently aim the ball at the opponent.
On top of that, the ball can't be spammed, as it stays on stage and can't be automatically summoned when it's still on stage.
To prevent the core of Daisy moveset, well, sucking balls by lying on-stage all the time doing nothing, the ball could automatically bounce up if it hits the ground, either by the ball being or taking from Super Mario Land's Superball in that sense.
By letting the ball roam around the stage for so long, Daisy is forced to take the approach and take control of the ball in mid-range, mostly by the tools presented below and thus cannot camp with this powerful projectile by spamming it over and over.
Design-wise, it's to create a core to an unique athlete playstyle, where she's active and mobile without being a rushdown fighter.
Furthermore, it's an amazing way to portray her as the unique blend of aggressiveness and grace, as a technique class-fighter and to further her connection with Peach, who also uses a technical projectile.

Next is an upgraded ball
Of course, as the ball is the crux of her moveset, there should also be a way to upgrade the ball.
Aside from giving Daisy an in-fight objective and a way to let several other of her moves interact with the ball in a special way, it's also a way to further design her character and fighting role.

Giving the upgrade a Lip Stick-effect, for example, makes the ball an excellent damage dealer and creates pressure when combined with a heavy combo, however, it might also seem a bit passive, since the ball does the damage dealing and doesn't require Daisy to go in to capitalise on the damage increase.
In fact, it could very well be used in a zoning playstyle, using the slowly increasing damage to camp the clock as you have higher percentage

Perhaps more interesting would be to split the ball into three like the Torpedo in Super Mario Land.
It'd require Daisy to be more active if she wants to capitalise on the roaming balls by converting them into rapid volleys, but it might seem a bit gimmicky, turning Daisy more into a Pac-Man-esque character with a stage filled with traps than a Diddy Kong where a robust cqc character is spiced up with a projectile.

Of course existing effects, such as Stun or Trip could work as well, although the danger might lie in balance and/or uniqueness
A throwable projectile that trips might be too similar to Diddy, whereas a throwable projectile that stuns might make Daisy too good.

With the core laid down, let's continue with the next part of building Daisy's moveset: Mobility Specials
Since Daisy needs to get to the ball quickly or needs to space correctly easily, Daisy needs some mobility.
This mobility would be, compared to Peach's float, faster and less precise, meaning Daisy would ditch Peach's microspacing in favor of more rigorous spacing.
On top of adding to Daisy's athlete-style, with Daisy essentially gaining multiple jumps, they'd also have the function of keeping up with the ball and its weird angles.
Mobility specials can work in multiple ways, such as a horizontal dive or a third jump.

These mobility specials can also come with an auto-catch function
This auto-catch would create a smooth way to transition between an hypervolley/trapping style of a ball bouncing around, to a more reactionary style of throwing the ball when the time is right.
Alternatively, it might be a good way to reposition the ball in order to start a combo where you want.

Not only an auto-catch function could work, an auto-throw function could work as well, allowing Daisy to throw the ball in more directions than with the original move.
Alternatively, throwing the ball with this function might be a good trigger for the upgraded version of the ball.

Next is a piece of stage control, the ability to plant a garden
This garden can serve a few purposes:

First, it can trigger the ball upgrade: When the ball bounces in the garden (Outright throwing might not work due to that being a bit too easy), it turns into the upgraded version.
This way, Daisy's technique-side can show, since it gives a specific goal to where the ball needs to be goaded, aside from in the opponent's face.
On top of that, it could work for mobility, such as maybe avoiding the end lag on mobility moves by landing in the fresh flowers, but it could also work hurt the opponents' mobility slowing opponents stepping in the flowers, although I'd rather avoid implementing that part of the move in order to keep Daisy from getting a too powerful zoning tool that might allow her to get too passive.

Then there's an obvious move, but one that can change the dynamics in the moveset, which is the inclusion of powered up sports equipment
Really, the only unique thing about these is being a less subtle way to tack on the upgrade onto the ball, allowing Daisy to shoot a powerful ball at the opponent when the right time and the right angle aligns.

Last but not least, there's the wall.
The wall is perhaps the move that I should've started with, since it's relate to the balls the most.
First of all, it's a good way to bounce the ball in the desired direction.
Redirecting the ball might be hard sometimes, but a wall could help in that.
Put a wall on the ledge and the ball is less prone to getting blasted off, or for a more stylish trick, put a wall behind the opponent and throw the ball at him to potentionally hit twice.
Of course, since it's a wall, it can hinder the opponents' movement by putting a wall between you and the opponent.
This can also be used to keep the opponents from reaching the ball.
However, these applications might give Daisy a trap-character moniker too fast and might even turn her into a zoner.
A recurring theme in this design draft, sure, but I really don't want Daisy to be a zoner or a trapper even though she has projectiles.
But of course, it can also be used to help her mobility. Of course, Daisy can use the walls as a way to get higher up easier, but an eventual wall jump can also tremendously increase her mobility and ways to get around.

The wall can come in multiple flavors, as the wall can either spawn a few meters in front of Daisy like Zelda's charged Phantom-move or for a more technical move, Daisy can "plant" a small crystal/flower bud in one location. If she presses the button again, which can be anywhere, the mini-wall grows into a full-sized wall, blocking opponents.
This way Daisy can hinder opponents' movement, but also have greater control over the ball.

A fence can also be incorporated in the garden special.
Aside from having the same uses as a wall on a smaller scale, it can also be used to pinball a ball through the garden, with the garden, slowing opponents, fence, acting as an obstacle and the ball, damaging opponents, working together to limit the opponent's movement.
Also, the fence can be used to implement new mobility tricks for Daisy, such as allowing her to jump over the fence to perform a trick akin to Mario Kart, with her gaining a speed boost afterwards.

Some examples of moves.
Most moves not listed here are easy to guess, like a "Garden" special where she summons a garden, a "Flower Swing" move where she swings with a baseball bat/tennis racket/etc.

Some are more creative, so they're listed here.

Batadon Bastion (Category: Walls)
Two Batadons from Super Mario Land pop out out the ground a few metres next to Daisy, floating one Daisy head above the ground, one on each side of Daisy

Crystal Smash (Category: Walls)
Daisy summons a ring of crystals around her.

But some moves can also use multiple categories:

Flowerbed Return (Categories: Mobility, Garden, Auto-Catch)
Daisy dives forward a few metres, flowers appearing where she lands.
She automatically catches the ball if she's close.

Flower Glider (Categories: Mobility, Wall)
Daisy recovers using a Flower Glider.
Like Peach's Parasol, it knocks up opponents, but also the ball, making it a semi-wall
In order to add the Garden-category, flowers could appear where Daisy lands, as she smashes the big flower in the ground.

Flower Trampoline (Categories: Mobility, Wall, Auto-Catch, Auto-Throw, Garden)
Wooh, that's a biggy.
But I'll break it down.

Daisy jumps up by summoning a Flower Trampoline (Mobility)
Up until the peak, she can catch the ball (Auto-Cafch)
At her peak, she can throw the ball in three directions diagonally downwards (auto-throw)
A small garden appears where the auto-thrown ball lands (Garden)
The trampoline can be angled in three directions (diagonally up left, diagonally up right and upwards) and stays on stage, which causes balls that touch it to bounce in that direcfions (Wall)

Remind you, most of these moves and attributes are shown to be used by Daisy, so it's an unique moveset while keeping outrageous creative liberty away

This better spark some juicy discussion I spent three hours on this

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

Since Poison Daisy isn't really the way to go, I wanted to continue making a general Daisy moveset, but because thinking of specific moves is really hard here's another one of my moveset design concepts.

Basically I've thought of all the elements a Daisy moveset could and should have when it comes to gameplay.

First is the ball.
Daisy must have a move where she summons a ball.
This way, she has a projectile that she can use to create comboes and extend her range
While the ball is potentially a great way to poke at mid-range, it'd require great technique to consistently aim the ball at the opponent.
On top of that, the ball can't be spammed, as it stays on stage and can't be automatically summoned when it's still on stage.
To prevent the core of Daisy moveset, well, sucking balls by lying on-stage all the time doing nothing, the ball could automatically bounce up if it hits the ground, either by the ball being or taking from Super Mario Land's Superball in that sense.
By letting the ball roam around the stage for so long, Daisy is forced to take the approach and take control of the ball in mid-range, mostly by the tools presented below and thus cannot camp with this powerful projectile by spamming it over and over.
Design-wise, it's to create a core to an unique athlete playstyle, where she's active and mobile without being a rushdown fighter.
Furthermore, it's an amazing way to portray her as the unique blend of aggressiveness and grace, as a technique class-fighter and to further her connection with Peach, who also uses a technical projectile.

Next is an upgraded ball
Of course, as the ball is the crux of her moveset, there should also be a way to upgrade the ball.
Aside from giving Daisy an in-fight objective and a way to let several other of her moves interact with the ball in a special way, it's also a way to further design her character and fighting role.

Giving the upgrade a Lip Stick-effect, for example, makes the ball an excellent damage dealer and creates pressure when combined with a heavy combo, however, it might also seem a bit passive, since the ball does the damage dealing and doesn't require Daisy to go in to capitalise on the damage increase.
In fact, it could very well be used in a zoning playstyle, using the slowly increasing damage to camp the clock as you have higher percentage

Perhaps more interesting would be to split the ball into three like the Torpedo in Super Mario Land.
It'd require Daisy to be more active if she wants to capitalise on the roaming balls by converting them into rapid volleys, but it might seem a bit gimmicky, turning Daisy more into a Pac-Man-esque character with a stage filled with traps than a Diddy Kong where a robust cqc character is spiced up with a projectile.

Of course existing effects, such as Stun or Trip could work as well, although the danger might lie in balance and/or uniqueness
A throwable projectile that trips might be too similar to Diddy, whereas a throwable projectile that stuns might make Daisy too good.

With the core laid down, let's continue with the next part of building Daisy's moveset: Mobility Specials
Since Daisy needs to get to the ball quickly or needs to space correctly easily, Daisy needs some mobility.
This mobility would be, compared to Peach's float, faster and less precise, meaning Daisy would ditch Peach's microspacing in favor of more rigorous spacing.
On top of adding to Daisy's athlete-style, with Daisy essentially gaining multiple jumps, they'd also have the function of keeping up with the ball and its weird angles.
Mobility specials can work in multiple ways, such as a horizontal dive or a third jump.

These mobility specials can also come with an auto-catch function
This auto-catch would create a smooth way to transition between an hypervolley/trapping style of a ball bouncing around, to a more reactionary style of throwing the ball when the time is right.
Alternatively, it might be a good way to reposition the ball in order to start a combo where you want.

Not only an auto-catch function could work, an auto-throw function could work as well, allowing Daisy to throw the ball in more directions than with the original move.
Alternatively, throwing the ball with this function might be a good trigger for the upgraded version of the ball.

Next is a piece of stage control, the ability to plant a garden
This garden can serve a few purposes:

First, it can trigger the ball upgrade: When the ball bounces in the garden (Outright throwing might not work due to that being a bit too easy), it turns into the upgraded version.
This way, Daisy's technique-side can show, since it gives a specific goal to where the ball needs to be goaded, aside from in the opponent's face.
On top of that, it could work for mobility, such as maybe avoiding the end lag on mobility moves by landing in the fresh flowers, but it could also work hurt the opponents' mobility slowing opponents stepping in the flowers, although I'd rather avoid implementing that part of the move in order to keep Daisy from getting a too powerful zoning tool that might allow her to get too passive.

Then there's an obvious move, but one that can change the dynamics in the moveset, which is the inclusion of powered up sports equipment
Really, the only unique thing about these is being a less subtle way to tack on the upgrade onto the ball, allowing Daisy to shoot a powerful ball at the opponent when the right time and the right angle aligns.

Last but not least, there's the wall.
The wall is perhaps the move that I should've started with, since it's relate to the balls the most.
First of all, it's a good way to bounce the ball in the desired direction.
Redirecting the ball might be hard sometimes, but a wall could help in that.
Put a wall on the ledge and the ball is less prone to getting blasted off, or for a more stylish trick, put a wall behind the opponent and throw the ball at him to potentionally hit twice.
Of course, since it's a wall, it can hinder the opponents' movement by putting a wall between you and the opponent.
This can also be used to keep the opponents from reaching the ball.
However, these applications might give Daisy a trap-character moniker too fast and might even turn her into a zoner.
A recurring theme in this design draft, sure, but I really don't want Daisy to be a zoner or a trapper even though she has projectiles.
But of course, it can also be used to help her mobility. Of course, Daisy can use the walls as a way to get higher up easier, but an eventual wall jump can also tremendously increase her mobility and ways to get around.

Some examples of moves.
Most moves not listed here are easy to guess, like a "Garden" special where she summons a garden, a "Flower Swing" move where she swings with a baseball bat/tennis racket/etc.

Some are more creative, so they're listed here.

Batadon Bastion (Category: Walls)
Two Batadons from Super Mario Land pop out out the ground a few metres next to Daisy, floating one Daisy head above the ground, one on each side of Daisy

Crystal Smash (Category: Walls)
Daisy summons a ring of crystals around her.

But some moves can also use multiple categories:

Flowerbed Return (Categories: Mobility, Garden, Auto-Catch)
Daisy dives forward a few metres, flowers appearing where she lands.
She automatically catches the ball if she's close.

Flower Glider (Categories: Mobility, Wall)
Daisy recovers using a Flower Glider.
Like Peach's Parasol, it knocks up opponents, but also the ball, making it a semi-wall
In order to add the Garden-category, flowers could appear where Daisy lands, as she smashes the big flower in the ground.

Flower Trampoline (Categories: Mobility, Wall, Auto-Catch, Auto-Throw, Garden)
Wooh, that's a biggy.
But I'll break it down.

Daisy jumps up by summoning a Flower Trampoline (Mobility)
Up until the peak, she can catch the ball (Auto-Cafch)
At her peak, she can throw the ball in three directions diagonally downwards (auto-throw)
A small garden appears where the auto-thrown ball lands (Garden)
The trampoline can be angled in three directions (diagonally up left, diagonally up right and upwards) and stays on stage, which causes balls that touch it to bounce in that direcfions (Wall)

Remind you, most of these moves and attributes are shown to be used by Daisy, so it's an unique moveset while keeping outrageous creative liberty away

This better spark some juicy discussion I spent three hours on this

Well done, WCF.

Can't say much but I love the ideas proposed and the amount of detail put into it.

Balls, crystals, flowers, etc are definitely unique attributes that they can put into her moveset. Being unique to her while not being too OoC.

 

[Luminario]

Since Poison Daisy isn't really the way to go, I wanted to continue making a general Daisy moveset, but because thinking of specific moves is really hard here's another one of my moveset design concepts.

Basically I've thought of all the elements a Daisy moveset could and should have when it comes to gameplay.

First is the ball.
Daisy must have a move where she summons a ball.
This way, she has a projectile that she can use to create comboes and extend her range
While the ball is potentially a great way to poke at mid-range, it'd require great technique to consistently aim the ball at the opponent.
On top of that, the ball can't be spammed, as it stays on stage and can't be automatically summoned when it's still on stage.
To prevent the core of Daisy moveset, well, sucking balls by lying on-stage all the time doing nothing, the ball could automatically bounce up if it hits the ground, either by the ball being or taking from Super Mario Land's Superball in that sense.
By letting the ball roam around the stage for so long, Daisy is forced to take the approach and take control of the ball in mid-range, mostly by the tools presented below and thus cannot camp with this powerful projectile by spamming it over and over.
Design-wise, it's to create a core to an unique athlete playstyle, where she's active and mobile without being a rushdown fighter.
Furthermore, it's an amazing way to portray her as the unique blend of aggressiveness and grace, as a technique class-fighter and to further her connection with Peach, who also uses a technical projectile.

Next is an upgraded ball
Of course, as the ball is the crux of her moveset, there should also be a way to upgrade the ball.
Aside from giving Daisy an in-fight objective and a way to let several other of her moves interact with the ball in a special way, it's also a way to further design her character and fighting role.

Giving the upgrade a Lip Stick-effect, for example, makes the ball an excellent damage dealer and creates pressure when combined with a heavy combo, however, it might also seem a bit passive, since the ball does the damage dealing and doesn't require Daisy to go in to capitalise on the damage increase.
In fact, it could very well be used in a zoning playstyle, using the slowly increasing damage to camp the clock as you have higher percentage

Perhaps more interesting would be to split the ball into three like the Torpedo in Super Mario Land.
It'd require Daisy to be more active if she wants to capitalise on the roaming balls by converting them into rapid volleys, but it might seem a bit gimmicky, turning Daisy more into a Pac-Man-esque character with a stage filled with traps than a Diddy Kong where a robust cqc character is spiced up with a projectile.

Of course existing effects, such as Stun or Trip could work as well, although the danger might lie in balance and/or uniqueness
A throwable projectile that trips might be too similar to Diddy, whereas a throwable projectile that stuns might make Daisy too good.

With the core laid down, let's continue with the next part of building Daisy's moveset: Mobility Specials
Since Daisy needs to get to the ball quickly or needs to space correctly easily, Daisy needs some mobility.
This mobility would be, compared to Peach's float, faster and less precise, meaning Daisy would ditch Peach's microspacing in favor of more rigorous spacing.
On top of adding to Daisy's athlete-style, with Daisy essentially gaining multiple jumps, they'd also have the function of keeping up with the ball and its weird angles.
Mobility specials can work in multiple ways, such as a horizontal dive or a third jump.

These mobility specials can also come with an auto-catch function
This auto-catch would create a smooth way to transition between an hypervolley/trapping style of a ball bouncing around, to a more reactionary style of throwing the ball when the time is right.
Alternatively, it might be a good way to reposition the ball in order to start a combo where you want.

Not only an auto-catch function could work, an auto-throw function could work as well, allowing Daisy to throw the ball in more directions than with the original move.
Alternatively, throwing the ball with this function might be a good trigger for the upgraded version of the ball.

Next is a piece of stage control, the ability to plant a garden
This garden can serve a few purposes:

First, it can trigger the ball upgrade: When the ball bounces in the garden (Outright throwing might not work due to that being a bit too easy), it turns into the upgraded version.
This way, Daisy's technique-side can show, since it gives a specific goal to where the ball needs to be goaded, aside from in the opponent's face.
On top of that, it could work for mobility, such as maybe avoiding the end lag on mobility moves by landing in the fresh flowers, but it could also work hurt the opponents' mobility slowing opponents stepping in the flowers, although I'd rather avoid implementing that part of the move in order to keep Daisy from getting a too powerful zoning tool that might allow her to get too passive.

Then there's an obvious move, but one that can change the dynamics in the moveset, which is the inclusion of powered up sports equipment
Really, the only unique thing about these is being a less subtle way to tack on the upgrade onto the ball, allowing Daisy to shoot a powerful ball at the opponent when the right time and the right angle aligns.

Last but not least, there's the wall.
The wall is perhaps the move that I should've started with, since it's relate to the balls the most.
First of all, it's a good way to bounce the ball in the desired direction.
Redirecting the ball might be hard sometimes, but a wall could help in that.
Put a wall on the ledge and the ball is less prone to getting blasted off, or for a more stylish trick, put a wall behind the opponent and throw the ball at him to potentionally hit twice.
Of course, since it's a wall, it can hinder the opponents' movement by putting a wall between you and the opponent.
This can also be used to keep the opponents from reaching the ball.
However, these applications might give Daisy a trap-character moniker too fast and might even turn her into a zoner.
A recurring theme in this design draft, sure, but I really don't want Daisy to be a zoner or a trapper even though she has projectiles.
But of course, it can also be used to help her mobility. Of course, Daisy can use the walls as a way to get higher up easier, but an eventual wall jump can also tremendously increase her mobility and ways to get around.

Some examples of moves.
Most moves not listed here are easy to guess, like a "Garden" special where she summons a garden, a "Flower Swing" move where she swings with a baseball bat/tennis racket/etc.

Some are more creative, so they're listed here.

Batadon Bastion (Category: Walls)
Two Batadons from Super Mario Land pop out out the ground a few metres next to Daisy, floating one Daisy head above the ground, one on each side of Daisy

Crystal Smash (Category: Walls)
Daisy summons a ring of crystals around her.

But some moves can also use multiple categories:

Flowerbed Return (Categories: Mobility, Garden, Auto-Catch)
Daisy dives forward a few metres, flowers appearing where she lands.
She automatically catches the ball if she's close.

Flower Glider (Categories: Mobility, Wall)
Daisy recovers using a Flower Glider.
Like Peach's Parasol, it knocks up opponents, but also the ball, making it a semi-wall
In order to add the Garden-category, flowers could appear where Daisy lands, as she smashes the big flower in the ground.

Flower Trampoline (Categories: Mobility, Wall, Auto-Catch, Auto-Throw, Garden)
Wooh, that's a biggy.
But I'll break it down.

Daisy jumps up by summoning a Flower Trampoline (Mobility)
Up until the peak, she can catch the ball (Auto-Cafch)
At her peak, she can throw the ball in three directions diagonally downwards (auto-throw)
A small garden appears where the auto-thrown ball lands (Garden)
The trampoline can be angled in three directions (diagonally up left, diagonally up right and upwards) and stays on stage, which causes balls that touch it to bounce in that direcfions (Wall)

Remind you, most of these moves and attributes are shown to be used by Daisy, so it's an unique moveset while keeping outrageous creative liberty away

This better spark some juicy discussion I spent three hours on this

Now THIS I'd love to hear so much more about, especially it's implementation into Smash. So the questions~
So this ball, it's a held projectile like Peach's Veggie right? I'm assuming it has general physics like a sort tennis ball too? If it is a held projectile she could change her B move to a tennis serve attack while it's held and while the ball it out but not held by Daisy the B move could be the Flower Shot from Mario Power Tennis to power the ball up. Another idea is that if the upgraded ball or the Flower Shot racquet touches an opponent they get hit and petals fly around them for a short time, slowing their speed, but if the ball touches the ground it creates the garden which can have some other effect (slows them down, causes continuous damage, has a small fence around it Mario Sports Mix style that Daisy can pass through but other cant, other stuff like that) I'd say splitting the ball into 3 might be overkill but the Lip Stick effect would work alright.
Onto the walls, would you be able to summon a wall quite a bit away from you to surprise opponents or is it just gonna be right in front of you? You could have a sort of delayed wall idea with Down B where Daisy touches the ground and a tiny crystal pops out that does absolutely nothing but upon pressing down B again the crystal wall pops out of the ground and becomes the wall which can either hit enemies on the way up, act as a wall in between you and your opponent, or be summoned as soon as you hit the ball towards the opponent causing the ball to bounce back hitting the opponent twice as a surprise attack so the opponent always has to keep track of where the crystal is too. I'd say it would be better of the ball went through shields instead of bouncing off to make use of this idea.
Moving on to the Flowerbed Return, does it have a hitbox? would it be like Peach Bomber where you bounce off of foes or Fox Illusion where you fly right through them? Oooh what if this attack steals the ball from an opponent if they're able to grab it too?
And finally the Flower Trampoline, is it gonna be just like Sonic's Spring but can change direction? It could use the animations from Mario Sports Mix at the apex of the jump with the pompom to power the ball up before shooting it in a direction.

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

I'm never watching another Mario party stream with Daisy again.

You don't want to know what creepy **** I've seen on Jimmy's stream.

 

[Tortilla Noggin]

I'm never watching another Mario party stream with Daisy again.

You don't want to know what creepy **** I've seen on Jimmy's stream.

Unfortunately, now you've just made everyone wonder what you're talking about, even though it's highly likely that nobody actually wants to know...

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Since Poison Daisy isn't really the way to go, I wanted to continue making a general Daisy moveset, but because thinking of specific moves is really hard here's another one of my moveset design concepts.

Basically I've thought of all the elements a Daisy moveset could and should have when it comes to gameplay.

First is the ball.
Daisy must have a move where she summons a ball.
This way, she has a projectile that she can use to create comboes and extend her range
While the ball is potentially a great way to poke at mid-range, it'd require great technique to consistently aim the ball at the opponent.
On top of that, the ball can't be spammed, as it stays on stage and can't be automatically summoned when it's still on stage.
To prevent the core of Daisy moveset, well, sucking balls by lying on-stage all the time doing nothing, the ball could automatically bounce up if it hits the ground, either by the ball being or taking from Super Mario Land's Superball in that sense.
By letting the ball roam around the stage for so long, Daisy is forced to take the approach and take control of the ball in mid-range, mostly by the tools presented below and thus cannot camp with this powerful projectile by spamming it over and over.
Design-wise, it's to create a core to an unique athlete playstyle, where she's active and mobile without being a rushdown fighter.
Furthermore, it's an amazing way to portray her as the unique blend of aggressiveness and grace, as a technique class-fighter and to further her connection with Peach, who also uses a technical projectile.

Next is an upgraded ball
Of course, as the ball is the crux of her moveset, there should also be a way to upgrade the ball.
Aside from giving Daisy an in-fight objective and a way to let several other of her moves interact with the ball in a special way, it's also a way to further design her character and fighting role.

Giving the upgrade a Lip Stick-effect, for example, makes the ball an excellent damage dealer and creates pressure when combined with a heavy combo, however, it might also seem a bit passive, since the ball does the damage dealing and doesn't require Daisy to go in to capitalise on the damage increase.
In fact, it could very well be used in a zoning playstyle, using the slowly increasing damage to camp the clock as you have higher percentage

Perhaps more interesting would be to split the ball into three like the Torpedo in Super Mario Land.
It'd require Daisy to be more active if she wants to capitalise on the roaming balls by converting them into rapid volleys, but it might seem a bit gimmicky, turning Daisy more into a Pac-Man-esque character with a stage filled with traps than a Diddy Kong where a robust cqc character is spiced up with a projectile.

Of course existing effects, such as Stun or Trip could work as well, although the danger might lie in balance and/or uniqueness
A throwable projectile that trips might be too similar to Diddy, whereas a throwable projectile that stuns might make Daisy too good.

With the core laid down, let's continue with the next part of building Daisy's moveset: Mobility Specials
Since Daisy needs to get to the ball quickly or needs to space correctly easily, Daisy needs some mobility.
This mobility would be, compared to Peach's float, faster and less precise, meaning Daisy would ditch Peach's microspacing in favor of more rigorous spacing.
On top of adding to Daisy's athlete-style, with Daisy essentially gaining multiple jumps, they'd also have the function of keeping up with the ball and its weird angles.
Mobility specials can work in multiple ways, such as a horizontal dive or a third jump.

These mobility specials can also come with an auto-catch function
This auto-catch would create a smooth way to transition between an hypervolley/trapping style of a ball bouncing around, to a more reactionary style of throwing the ball when the time is right.
Alternatively, it might be a good way to reposition the ball in order to start a combo where you want.

Not only an auto-catch function could work, an auto-throw function could work as well, allowing Daisy to throw the ball in more directions than with the original move.
Alternatively, throwing the ball with this function might be a good trigger for the upgraded version of the ball.

Next is a piece of stage control, the ability to plant a garden
This garden can serve a few purposes:

First, it can trigger the ball upgrade: When the ball bounces in the garden (Outright throwing might not work due to that being a bit too easy), it turns into the upgraded version.
This way, Daisy's technique-side can show, since it gives a specific goal to where the ball needs to be goaded, aside from in the opponent's face.
On top of that, it could work for mobility, such as maybe avoiding the end lag on mobility moves by landing in the fresh flowers, but it could also work hurt the opponents' mobility slowing opponents stepping in the flowers, although I'd rather avoid implementing that part of the move in order to keep Daisy from getting a too powerful zoning tool that might allow her to get too passive.

Then there's an obvious move, but one that can change the dynamics in the moveset, which is the inclusion of powered up sports equipment
Really, the only unique thing about these is being a less subtle way to tack on the upgrade onto the ball, allowing Daisy to shoot a powerful ball at the opponent when the right time and the right angle aligns.

Last but not least, there's the wall.
The wall is perhaps the move that I should've started with, since it's relate to the balls the most.
First of all, it's a good way to bounce the ball in the desired direction.
Redirecting the ball might be hard sometimes, but a wall could help in that.
Put a wall on the ledge and the ball is less prone to getting blasted off, or for a more stylish trick, put a wall behind the opponent and throw the ball at him to potentionally hit twice.
Of course, since it's a wall, it can hinder the opponents' movement by putting a wall between you and the opponent.
This can also be used to keep the opponents from reaching the ball.
However, these applications might give Daisy a trap-character moniker too fast and might even turn her into a zoner.
A recurring theme in this design draft, sure, but I really don't want Daisy to be a zoner or a trapper even though she has projectiles.
But of course, it can also be used to help her mobility. Of course, Daisy can use the walls as a way to get higher up easier, but an eventual wall jump can also tremendously increase her mobility and ways to get around.

Some examples of moves.
Most moves not listed here are easy to guess, like a "Garden" special where she summons a garden, a "Flower Swing" move where she swings with a baseball bat/tennis racket/etc.

Some are more creative, so they're listed here.

Batadon Bastion (Category: Walls)
Two Batadons from Super Mario Land pop out out the ground a few metres next to Daisy, floating one Daisy head above the ground, one on each side of Daisy

Crystal Smash (Category: Walls)
Daisy summons a ring of crystals around her.

But some moves can also use multiple categories:

Flowerbed Return (Categories: Mobility, Garden, Auto-Catch)
Daisy dives forward a few metres, flowers appearing where she lands.
She automatically catches the ball if she's close.

Flower Glider (Categories: Mobility, Wall)
Daisy recovers using a Flower Glider.
Like Peach's Parasol, it knocks up opponents, but also the ball, making it a semi-wall
In order to add the Garden-category, flowers could appear where Daisy lands, as she smashes the big flower in the ground.

Flower Trampoline (Categories: Mobility, Wall, Auto-Catch, Auto-Throw, Garden)
Wooh, that's a biggy.
But I'll break it down.

Daisy jumps up by summoning a Flower Trampoline (Mobility)
Up until the peak, she can catch the ball (Auto-Cafch)
At her peak, she can throw the ball in three directions diagonally downwards (auto-throw)
A small garden appears where the auto-thrown ball lands (Garden)
The trampoline can be angled in three directions (diagonally up left, diagonally up right and upwards) and stays on stage, which causes balls that touch it to bounce in that direcfions (Wall)

Remind you, most of these moves and attributes are shown to be used by Daisy, so it's an unique moveset while keeping outrageous creative liberty away

This better spark some juicy discussion I spent three hours on this

You never fail to disappoint with these and I can't say that I'm not impressed with this.

Well explained, various detail about how the ball and garden interaction is important, and the various ways you control it. Having the ball constantly bounce or chance based on how you interact with it is actually a great idea. You've really capture that mixture of Super Mario Land fanservice and spinoff material that is only relevant to her.

But if I were to ask one question, it would be about the garden itself. Would the garden have any special buttons to trigger it or are the effects random? And how long would these gardens be grown at least until you can't make walls with them anymore?

And why the hell are you watching Jimmy Whitzel again AwesomeAussie27 ?

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

And why the hell are you watching Jimmy Whitzel again AwesomeAussie27 ?

Unfortunately, now you've just made everyone wonder what you're talking about, even though it's highly likely that nobody actually wants to know...

All I've wanted to do was to enjoy a nice Mario Party stream from my favorite Twitch streamer and not see things like a decapitated Daisy plush head staring into your soul in complete darkness with a demonic "Hi I'm Daisy" in the background.

But whatever, let's talk more about WeirdChillFever 's wonderful ideas.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

All I've wanted to do was to enjoy a nice Mario Party stream from my favorite Twitch streamer and not see things like a decapitated Daisy plush head staring into your soul in complete darkness with a demonic "Hi I'm Daisy" in the background.

But whatever, let's talk more about WeirdChillFever 's wonderful ideas.

Yeah, a north good reason not to watch his stuff....

And he also seems to like torturing himself with high level computers on Mario Party and it had to be Daisy. Why?

But let's focus more on WCF. I'm still waiting on an answer from him.

 

[Ark of Silence101]

Since Poison Daisy isn't really the way to go, I wanted to continue making a general Daisy moveset, but because thinking of specific moves is really hard here's another one of my moveset design concepts.

Basically I've thought of all the elements a Daisy moveset could and should have when it comes to gameplay.

First is the ball.
Daisy must have a move where she summons a ball.
This way, she has a projectile that she can use to create comboes and extend her range
While the ball is potentially a great way to poke at mid-range, it'd require great technique to consistently aim the ball at the opponent.
On top of that, the ball can't be spammed, as it stays on stage and can't be automatically summoned when it's still on stage.
To prevent the core of Daisy moveset, well, sucking balls by lying on-stage all the time doing nothing, the ball could automatically bounce up if it hits the ground, either by the ball being or taking from Super Mario Land's Superball in that sense.
By letting the ball roam around the stage for so long, Daisy is forced to take the approach and take control of the ball in mid-range, mostly by the tools presented below and thus cannot camp with this powerful projectile by spamming it over and over.
Design-wise, it's to create a core to an unique athlete playstyle, where she's active and mobile without being a rushdown fighter.
Furthermore, it's an amazing way to portray her as the unique blend of aggressiveness and grace, as a technique class-fighter and to further her connection with Peach, who also uses a technical projectile.

Next is an upgraded ball
Of course, as the ball is the crux of her moveset, there should also be a way to upgrade the ball.
Aside from giving Daisy an in-fight objective and a way to let several other of her moves interact with the ball in a special way, it's also a way to further design her character and fighting role.

Giving the upgrade a Lip Stick-effect, for example, makes the ball an excellent damage dealer and creates pressure when combined with a heavy combo, however, it might also seem a bit passive, since the ball does the damage dealing and doesn't require Daisy to go in to capitalise on the damage increase.
In fact, it could very well be used in a zoning playstyle, using the slowly increasing damage to camp the clock as you have higher percentage

Perhaps more interesting would be to split the ball into three like the Torpedo in Super Mario Land.
It'd require Daisy to be more active if she wants to capitalise on the roaming balls by converting them into rapid volleys, but it might seem a bit gimmicky, turning Daisy more into a Pac-Man-esque character with a stage filled with traps than a Diddy Kong where a robust cqc character is spiced up with a projectile.

Of course existing effects, such as Stun or Trip could work as well, although the danger might lie in balance and/or uniqueness
A throwable projectile that trips might be too similar to Diddy, whereas a throwable projectile that stuns might make Daisy too good.

With the core laid down, let's continue with the next part of building Daisy's moveset: Mobility Specials
Since Daisy needs to get to the ball quickly or needs to space correctly easily, Daisy needs some mobility.
This mobility would be, compared to Peach's float, faster and less precise, meaning Daisy would ditch Peach's microspacing in favor of more rigorous spacing.
On top of adding to Daisy's athlete-style, with Daisy essentially gaining multiple jumps, they'd also have the function of keeping up with the ball and its weird angles.
Mobility specials can work in multiple ways, such as a horizontal dive or a third jump.

These mobility specials can also come with an auto-catch function
This auto-catch would create a smooth way to transition between an hypervolley/trapping style of a ball bouncing around, to a more reactionary style of throwing the ball when the time is right.
Alternatively, it might be a good way to reposition the ball in order to start a combo where you want.

Not only an auto-catch function could work, an auto-throw function could work as well, allowing Daisy to throw the ball in more directions than with the original move.
Alternatively, throwing the ball with this function might be a good trigger for the upgraded version of the ball.

Next is a piece of stage control, the ability to plant a garden
This garden can serve a few purposes:

First, it can trigger the ball upgrade: When the ball bounces in the garden (Outright throwing might not work due to that being a bit too easy), it turns into the upgraded version.
This way, Daisy's technique-side can show, since it gives a specific goal to where the ball needs to be goaded, aside from in the opponent's face.
On top of that, it could work for mobility, such as maybe avoiding the end lag on mobility moves by landing in the fresh flowers, but it could also work hurt the opponents' mobility slowing opponents stepping in the flowers, although I'd rather avoid implementing that part of the move in order to keep Daisy from getting a too powerful zoning tool that might allow her to get too passive.

Then there's an obvious move, but one that can change the dynamics in the moveset, which is the inclusion of powered up sports equipment
Really, the only unique thing about these is being a less subtle way to tack on the upgrade onto the ball, allowing Daisy to shoot a powerful ball at the opponent when the right time and the right angle aligns.

Last but not least, there's the wall.
The wall is perhaps the move that I should've started with, since it's relate to the balls the most.
First of all, it's a good way to bounce the ball in the desired direction.
Redirecting the ball might be hard sometimes, but a wall could help in that.
Put a wall on the ledge and the ball is less prone to getting blasted off, or for a more stylish trick, put a wall behind the opponent and throw the ball at him to potentionally hit twice.
Of course, since it's a wall, it can hinder the opponents' movement by putting a wall between you and the opponent.
This can also be used to keep the opponents from reaching the ball.
However, these applications might give Daisy a trap-character moniker too fast and might even turn her into a zoner.
A recurring theme in this design draft, sure, but I really don't want Daisy to be a zoner or a trapper even though she has projectiles.
But of course, it can also be used to help her mobility. Of course, Daisy can use the walls as a way to get higher up easier, but an eventual wall jump can also tremendously increase her mobility and ways to get around.

Some examples of moves.
Most moves not listed here are easy to guess, like a "Garden" special where she summons a garden, a "Flower Swing" move where she swings with a baseball bat/tennis racket/etc.

Some are more creative, so they're listed here.

Batadon Bastion (Category: Walls)
Two Batadons from Super Mario Land pop out out the ground a few metres next to Daisy, floating one Daisy head above the ground, one on each side of Daisy

Crystal Smash (Category: Walls)
Daisy summons a ring of crystals around her.

But some moves can also use multiple categories:

Flowerbed Return (Categories: Mobility, Garden, Auto-Catch)
Daisy dives forward a few metres, flowers appearing where she lands.
She automatically catches the ball if she's close.

Flower Glider (Categories: Mobility, Wall)
Daisy recovers using a Flower Glider.
Like Peach's Parasol, it knocks up opponents, but also the ball, making it a semi-wall
In order to add the Garden-category, flowers could appear where Daisy lands, as she smashes the big flower in the ground.

Flower Trampoline (Categories: Mobility, Wall, Auto-Catch, Auto-Throw, Garden)
Wooh, that's a biggy.
But I'll break it down.

Daisy jumps up by summoning a Flower Trampoline (Mobility)
Up until the peak, she can catch the ball (Auto-Cafch)
At her peak, she can throw the ball in three directions diagonally downwards (auto-throw)
A small garden appears where the auto-thrown ball lands (Garden)
The trampoline can be angled in three directions (diagonally up left, diagonally up right and upwards) and stays on stage, which causes balls that touch it to bounce in that direcfions (Wall)

Remind you, most of these moves and attributes are shown to be used by Daisy, so it's an unique moveset while keeping outrageous creative liberty away

This better spark some juicy discussion I spent three hours on this

Holy, 3 hours? Goodness I don't think I could come up with even half of this in that time, well done.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Now THIS I'd love to hear so much more about, especially it's implementation into Smash. So the questions~
So this ball, it's a held projectile like Peach's Veggie right? I'm assuming it has general physics like a sort tennis ball too? If it is a held projectile she could change her B move to a tennis serve attack while it's held and while the ball it out but not held by Daisy the B move could be the Flower Shot from Mario Power Tennis to power the ball up. Another idea is that if the upgraded ball or the Flower Shot racquet touches an opponent they get hit and petals fly around them for a short time, slowing their speed, but if the ball touches the ground it creates the garden which can have some other effect (slows them down, causes continuous damage, has a small fence around it Mario Sports Mix style that Daisy can pass through but other cant, other stuff like that) I'd say splitting the ball into 3 might be overkill but the Lip Stick effect would work alright.
Onto the walls, would you be able to summon a wall quite a bit away from you to surprise opponents or is it just gonna be right in front of you? You could have a sort of delayed wall idea with Down B where Daisy touches the ground and a tiny crystal pops out that does absolutely nothing but upon pressing down B again the crystal wall pops out of the ground and becomes the wall which can either hit enemies on the way up, act as a wall in between you and your opponent, or be summoned as soon as you hit the ball towards the opponent causing the ball to bounce back hitting the opponent twice as a surprise attack so the opponent always has to keep track of where the crystal is too. I'd say it would be better of the ball went through shields instead of bouncing off to make use of this idea.
Moving on to the Flowerbed Return, does it have a hitbox? would it be like Peach Bomber where you bounce off of foes or Fox Illusion where you fly right through them? Oooh what if this attack steals the ball from an opponent if they're able to grab it too?
And finally the Flower Trampoline, is it gonna be just like Sonic's Spring but can change direction? It could use the animations from Mario Sports Mix at the apex of the jump with the pompom to power the ball up before shooting it in a direction.

Oh my these ideas are great!

The ball can be caught and held like Peach's vegs, Diddy's banana's and Pac-Man's fruit.
The Superball would bounce even higher than Dr. Mario's pills, though Sakurai can opt for a more generic soccer or tennis ball that bounces less.
I prefer the garden to serve bonuses in mobility to Daisy, such as cutting lag on moves, but to act like the normal ground to opponents.
This is to prevent Daisy to sit on her lazy butt and camp the opponent out.
And yeah, the B-move can be used for other purposes, such as the Flower Power Sports Equipment.
In my Strikers moveset, the B-Button is reserved for the Torpedo Strike once the ball is on field.

But the garden fence brings up a very interesting component, as it can act as a wall!
This way, a ZSS-like Flip Jump could work for Daisy as well, bringing mobility, summoning a garden with wall where she lands and potentionally acting like a different type of wall jump when done against the garden fence.
What's more, Daisy can bring a free-runner-flair to the fray by having a way to jump over the fence to gain a speed boost, not unlike tricks in the Mario Kart-series.

The walls can be anything really, as long as it's a viable way to keep the ball bouncing.
The "delayed wall" idea is absolutely genius and can also be visualised with a flower, with Daisy planting a seed and using Flower Power to make it grow and pop up the opponent, like Pac-Man's Trampoline!

To balance, a wall that can be put further away from Daisy would have to be charged, like Zelda's Down B.
Don't charge to quickly put a wall next to Daisy, charge longer to strategically put a wall further away.

I don't think fhe ball should go through shields, as I really like the idea of Daisy keeping to volley the same ball against a shielding opponent, forcing it to take action.
This way, the pressure stays on after the projectile thrown, a bit like Toon Link's Bombs.

Flowerbed Return might have a hitbox, like Daisy just knocking back opponents with the sports prop she's holding (A Tennis Racket to automatically volley away in incoming ball, or a baseball glove like on her trophy)
That said, I don't think the knockback should be the main draw to this move, but more of a way to leave Daisy not too vulnerable to counterattack.

Flower Trampoline acts more like Pac-Man's Trampoline, as the trampoline wouldn't fall to the ground and, if it would serve the purpose of pinball-wall, stay out longer than Sonic's Spring.

You never fail to disappoint with these and I can't say that I'm not impressed with this.

Well explained, various detail about how the ball and garden interaction is important, and the various ways you control it. Having the ball constantly bounce or chance based on how you interact with it is actually a great idea. You've really capture that mixture of Super Mario Land fanservice and spinoff material that is only relevant to her.

But if I were to ask one question, it would be about the garden itself. Would the garden have any special buttons to trigger it or are the effects random? And how long would these gardens be grown at least until you can't make walls with them anymore?

And why the hell are you watching Jimmy Whitzel again AwesomeAussie27 ?

The garden would, to prevent unfair camping, have no negative effect on the opponents, and if it had, it would be a slowing effect, since effects like damage or even knockback would turn Daisy into a trapping character.

Holy, 3 hours? Goodness I don't think I could come up with even half of this in that time, well done.

To be fair I had these ideas in my mind for longer, writing it all down is what took so long.

Gonna post full version of the Strikers set over at Make Your Move when it's done, gonna be super snazzy

 

[Bowser D.X]

Count me in for support; I was very surprised that she didn't make it to Brawl and Smash 4.

While her Strikers Charged outfit would be the most aesthetically pleasing IMO, her normal sports outfit with a sports themed move set i.e golf and tennis rackets would be the most logical choice since she's been in nothing but sports games for the last 20 years. Though I would be down for Daisy as a Peach clone. Clones are underrated.

Edit: Another good reason to not have her in dress mode would be the possibility of alts like her Strikers outfits and biker suit. Though a cool idea would be the ability to change from a sort of Peach clone into a sports themed fighter a la Zelda/Sheik.

 

[Ark of Silence101]

Count me in for support; I was very surprised that she didn't make it to Brawl and Smash 4.

While her Strikers Charged outfit would be the most aesthetically pleasing IMO, her normal sports outfit with a sports themed move set i.e golf and tennis rackets would be the most logical choice since she's been in nothing but sports games for the last 20 years. Though I would be down for Daisy as a Peach clone. Clones are underrated.

Edit: Another good reason to not have her in dress mode would be the possibility of alts like her Strikers outfits and biker suit. Though a cool idea would be the ability to change from a sort of Peach clone into a sports themed fighter a la Zelda/Sheik.

Welcome aboard, good to have you onboard with us.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Wall of Text: A write-up on the pros and cons of the different wall types in a Superball-centred moveset.

I wanted to make a moveset using the write-up posted above and everything fell in its place pretty fast.
Neutral B would be the Superball, Side B would be a Flowerbed Return, Up B would be an updated Flower Trampoline where the Trampoline itself would disappear right after the jump, as the move would already have the functions of catching the ball and throwing it in the garden easily, with Down B being a wall to bounce the ball.

Simple.
However, there are a few different types of walls to use, each with their own pros, cons and playstyle possibilities.

First is the many kinds of potential walls in function.
Should Daisy put a wall next to her, or should she be able to put out a wall farther away, like Zelda's Phantom?

Luminario then mentioned the possibility of a 'delayed wall", not unlike Villager's Tree, although Daisy could sprout her wall from anywhere with the press of a button

Eventually I settled on two types of walls:

-The slide wall
-The delayed wall

The slide wall is a move that consists of three parts.
First is the charging, which dictates how far the wall would slide after releasing the charge.
This charge could either be Shadow Sneak-style, where the charge cannot be "held" and the more traditional charging style where Daisy can store the charge for later use.

Then is the sliding part.
This is where Daisy would summon the wall and slide it to its destination.
Without charge, this destination is relatively close to Daisy, whereas a charged slide wall would go the extra mile.

Lastly is the wall part, where the wall stays where it is, reflecting Superballs that bounce against it.

The slide wall is a more direct wall when it comes to reflecting Superballs, being able to intercept a ball quickly if Daisy slides it in the desired place in time.
This would allow for quick reflects, as Daisy would be able to put a wall where she needs to when she needs to from any part of the stage.

The quick reaction time can also be used to keep opponents away from the Superball, as Daisy can put up a wall between the opponent and the ball from anywhere from the stage as long as she has enough charge.

This quick reaction time can be emphasised even more with a move where the wall does not stay after being slided, instead reflecting balls that bounce against it as the ball is still sliding.
To balance it out, the charge can be held in order to have a quick way ready to intercept balls from across the stage.

The delayed wall would instead be more about strategy and pre-planning.
It would consist of three parts.

First is the "planting part"
Daisy would plant a small object on the ground that denotes where the wall is going to be.
This doesn't have to be a seed, just like the wall doesn't have to be a plant.
This wouldn't affect opponents, just like Villager's tree sprout doesn't (except when he uses that blasted custom sprout)

Then the sprouting part unfolds, as Daisy presses the button again to make the wall pop out of the ground.
This would damage and knockback opponents, but nothing too severe.

Then the wall would stay on the ground and reflect any Superballs that bounce against it.

Since Daisy can't swiftly put up a wall with this method, this one would be more about planning and strategy.
If you want to throw the ball, but also want it back, you can put down a wall there, throw a ball, and pop up the wall.
This way, Daisy can put up a wall after throwing a ball for surprising effects.

If you don't want the wall to act as a trap too much, especially since Daisy would be able to sprout it from across the stage, one could implement the requirement that the wall won't sprout when an opponent is close and would get hit.
This would prevent the wall to be used as a way to deter opponents instead of the wall being used to reflect the balls in the right direction.
However, this would not stop Daisy from using the rising wall as a way to get to a higher level to catch balls easier.

Second are the different ways of visually representing a wall.
What I mean by that is that we now have the concept of a wall-hitbox, but how would that hitbox look like in game?
I found three options to be the most likely:

Batadons:
For some Super Mario Land flair, the flying Easter Island statues are the way to go.

The sliding wall would involve a Batadon flying out of the ground before flying forwards to the destination.
The delayed wall would involve Daisy laying down a Ganchan, the rock enemy, which for the reasons of creative liberty changes into a Batadon when pressing the button again.

Functionally, their flying habits make aerial walls possible.
For the sliding wall, they could also pop out of the ground at their destination instead of sliding over the ground itself, damaging opponents, which could keep their zoning potential at a minimum and letting the wall be used for Superball-shenanigans only.
Visually, the walls are the most imposing of the three choices, which means it's hard (pun intended) to say opponents "can just run through it"
Unlike almost holographic "flower magic", one does not simply run through a statue.
This can get even more troublesome with the sliding wall, where an uncharged wall can put up an extra shield immediately.

The biggest con to them is the lack of Super Mario Land representation throughout the rest of the moveset.
Never is Daisy shown to be a summoner of Super Mario Land and although it's not unlikely that Daisy is capable of summoning her underlings, she's never shown to do so in Mario games or the moveset, making it clash with the rest of her portrayal

Crystal Smash
Of course when talking about walls in Daisy's arsenal of abilities, Crystal Smash deserves a mention.

For the sliding wall, there are two possibilities.
Either Daisy summons the wall in front of her and pushes it magically to the destination.
Or, resembling Shadow Sneak, the Crystal Wall would automatically pop out at the destination, again leaving out the camping possibilities of a wall shoving over the stage.

For the delayed wall, Daisy can summon the top of the crystal which shows itself completely with a second button press.

Pros are the possibility of a slide-less sliding wall, the fact it's a canonical ability to Daisy that isn't out of place in a sports moveset.
Cons are again the fact that opponents can't run or walk through and the fact Mario Strikers introduced a lot of abilities that are out of character and I feel Crystal Smash is one of them.
Functionally, another con is that crystals can't be summoned in the air, which means the real pinballing potential is left untapped.

Flower Magic
A bit generic compared to the others, but Daisy can also use her flower magic to summon a big flower to act as a wall.

For the sliding wall, Daisy can magically slide foward a big flower hologram magic thing.
For the delayed wall, Daisy can plant a seed, turning into a big flower when pressing the button again.

Pros are the fact that flower magic is not as solid as crystals or walls, and thus gives the possibilities of the wall not affecting opponents, the fact they fit into the flower-based moveset thematically and the fact they can be used to upgrade the ball and the fact flower magic can also be performed in the air to perform precise pinball shenanigans.

Cons are the flower magic's genericness, coupled with Daisy not using a flower wall canonically which gives this move a very "pulled a move out of the ass"-like feeling.

(Note: I'm sure it gets annoying that I constantly emphasise on my preference for Daisy to not have powerful defensive tools but walls and other terraforming is really rare in Smash and I don't want Daisy's schtick to be walls, but I want these walls to emphasise her playstyle of technical item player.
Thus, the walls, gardens etc's usefullness should be limited to increasing the depth of Daisy's mobility options and item play instead of being a tool on their own, especially since they're tools that would encourage an extremely passive playstyle on a character that is anything except passive.
Look at DeDeDe, R.O.B and Bowser Jr. All have a clear playstyle, but since they have a move that can trap, they're seen as trapping characters. Daisy, with a wall, would almost certainly be seen as trapping, almost zoning even, with this terraforming at her disposal
It's why I am still sceptical on a wall since it has defensive and trapping uses, albeit secondary in both the sliding and delayed wall types, with the sliding wall sliding opponents away in the initial slide, and the delayed wall acting as a trap in its first stage, with opponents that step on it being prone to being knocked back by Daisy activating stage two)

Gotta tag @Diddy Kong since he's close to joining our cause
Read up on this idea with this and the post quoted and you're good to go.

Maybe tag moveset bud @Munomario777 too since he likes making movesets.

And since he's not all that active @Thatkidwiththeafro deserves a special tag as well

Special non-tagging thanks to Tortilla for inspiring me to write the "Daisy is not a passive zoning character" rant that's in this write-up every two lines.

Since Poison Daisy isn't really the way to go, I wanted to continue making a general Daisy moveset, but because thinking of specific moves is really hard here's another one of my moveset design concepts.

Basically I've thought of all the elements a Daisy moveset could and should have when it comes to gameplay.

First is the ball.
Daisy must have a move where she summons a ball.
This way, she has a projectile that she can use to create comboes and extend her range
While the ball is potentially a great way to poke at mid-range, it'd require great technique to consistently aim the ball at the opponent.
On top of that, the ball can't be spammed, as it stays on stage and can't be automatically summoned when it's still on stage.
To prevent the core of Daisy moveset, well, sucking balls by lying on-stage all the time doing nothing, the ball could automatically bounce up if it hits the ground, either by the ball being or taking from Super Mario Land's Superball in that sense.
By letting the ball roam around the stage for so long, Daisy is forced to take the approach and take control of the ball in mid-range, mostly by the tools presented below and thus cannot camp with this powerful projectile by spamming it over and over.
Design-wise, it's to create a core to an unique athlete playstyle, where she's active and mobile without being a rushdown fighter.
Furthermore, it's an amazing way to portray her as the unique blend of aggressiveness and grace, as a technique class-fighter and to further her connection with Peach, who also uses a technical projectile.

Next is an upgraded ball
Of course, as the ball is the crux of her moveset, there should also be a way to upgrade the ball.
Aside from giving Daisy an in-fight objective and a way to let several other of her moves interact with the ball in a special way, it's also a way to further design her character and fighting role.

Giving the upgrade a Lip Stick-effect, for example, makes the ball an excellent damage dealer and creates pressure when combined with a heavy combo, however, it might also seem a bit passive, since the ball does the damage dealing and doesn't require Daisy to go in to capitalise on the damage increase.
In fact, it could very well be used in a zoning playstyle, using the slowly increasing damage to camp the clock as you have higher percentage

Perhaps more interesting would be to split the ball into three like the Torpedo in Super Mario Land.
It'd require Daisy to be more active if she wants to capitalise on the roaming balls by converting them into rapid volleys, but it might seem a bit gimmicky, turning Daisy more into a Pac-Man-esque character with a stage filled with traps than a Diddy Kong where a robust cqc character is spiced up with a projectile.

Of course existing effects, such as Stun or Trip could work as well, although the danger might lie in balance and/or uniqueness
A throwable projectile that trips might be too similar to Diddy, whereas a throwable projectile that stuns might make Daisy too good.

With the core laid down, let's continue with the next part of building Daisy's moveset: Mobility Specials
Since Daisy needs to get to the ball quickly or needs to space correctly easily, Daisy needs some mobility.
This mobility would be, compared to Peach's float, faster and less precise, meaning Daisy would ditch Peach's microspacing in favor of more rigorous spacing.
On top of adding to Daisy's athlete-style, with Daisy essentially gaining multiple jumps, they'd also have the function of keeping up with the ball and its weird angles.
Mobility specials can work in multiple ways, such as a horizontal dive or a third jump.

These mobility specials can also come with an auto-catch function
This auto-catch would create a smooth way to transition between an hypervolley/trapping style of a ball bouncing around, to a more reactionary style of throwing the ball when the time is right.
Alternatively, it might be a good way to reposition the ball in order to start a combo where you want.

Not only an auto-catch function could work, an auto-throw function could work as well, allowing Daisy to throw the ball in more directions than with the original move.
Alternatively, throwing the ball with this function might be a good trigger for the upgraded version of the ball.

Next is a piece of stage control, the ability to plant a garden
This garden can serve a few purposes:

First, it can trigger the ball upgrade: When the ball bounces in the garden (Outright throwing might not work due to that being a bit too easy), it turns into the upgraded version.
This way, Daisy's technique-side can show, since it gives a specific goal to where the ball needs to be goaded, aside from in the opponent's face.
On top of that, it could work for mobility, such as maybe avoiding the end lag on mobility moves by landing in the fresh flowers, but it could also work hurt the opponents' mobility slowing opponents stepping in the flowers, although I'd rather avoid implementing that part of the move in order to keep Daisy from getting a too powerful zoning tool that might allow her to get too passive.

Then there's an obvious move, but one that can change the dynamics in the moveset, which is the inclusion of powered up sports equipment
Really, the only unique thing about these is being a less subtle way to tack on the upgrade onto the ball, allowing Daisy to shoot a powerful ball at the opponent when the right time and the right angle aligns.

Last but not least, there's the wall.
The wall is perhaps the move that I should've started with, since it's relate to the balls the most.
First of all, it's a good way to bounce the ball in the desired direction.
Redirecting the ball might be hard sometimes, but a wall could help in that.
Put a wall on the ledge and the ball is less prone to getting blasted off, or for a more stylish trick, put a wall behind the opponent and throw the ball at him to potentionally hit twice.
Of course, since it's a wall, it can hinder the opponents' movement by putting a wall between you and the opponent.
This can also be used to keep the opponents from reaching the ball.
However, these applications might give Daisy a trap-character moniker too fast and might even turn her into a zoner.
A recurring theme in this design draft, sure, but I really don't want Daisy to be a zoner or a trapper even though she has projectiles.
But of course, it can also be used to help her mobility. Of course, Daisy can use the walls as a way to get higher up easier, but an eventual wall jump can also tremendously increase her mobility and ways to get around.

The wall can come in multiple flavors, as the wall can either spawn a few meters in front of Daisy like Zelda's charged Phantom-move or for a more technical move, Daisy can "plant" a small crystal/flower bud in one location. If she presses the button again, which can be anywhere, the mini-wall grows into a full-sized wall, blocking opponents.
This way Daisy can hinder opponents' movement, but also have greater control over the ball.

A fence can also be incorporated in the garden special.
Aside from having the same uses as a wall on a smaller scale, it can also be used to pinball a ball through the garden, with the garden, slowing opponents, fence, acting as an obstacle and the ball, damaging opponents, working together to limit the opponent's movement.
Also, the fence can be used to implement new mobility tricks for Daisy, such as allowing her to jump over the fence to perform a trick akin to Mario Kart, with her gaining a speed boost afterwards.

Some examples of moves.
Most moves not listed here are easy to guess, like a "Garden" special where she summons a garden, a "Flower Swing" move where she swings with a baseball bat/tennis racket/etc.

Some are more creative, so they're listed here.

Batadon Bastion (Category: Walls)
Two Batadons from Super Mario Land pop out out the ground a few metres next to Daisy, floating one Daisy head above the ground, one on each side of Daisy

Crystal Smash (Category: Walls)
Daisy summons a ring of crystals around her.

But some moves can also use multiple categories:

Flowerbed Return (Categories: Mobility, Garden, Auto-Catch)
Daisy dives forward a few metres, flowers appearing where she lands.
She automatically catches the ball if she's close.

Flower Glider (Categories: Mobility, Wall)
Daisy recovers using a Flower Glider.
Like Peach's Parasol, it knocks up opponents, but also the ball, making it a semi-wall
In order to add the Garden-category, flowers could appear where Daisy lands, as she smashes the big flower in the ground.

Flower Trampoline (Categories: Mobility, Wall, Auto-Catch, Auto-Throw, Garden)
Wooh, that's a biggy.
But I'll break it down.

Daisy jumps up by summoning a Flower Trampoline (Mobility)
Up until the peak, she can catch the ball (Auto-Cafch)
At her peak, she can throw the ball in three directions diagonally downwards (auto-throw)
A small garden appears where the auto-thrown ball lands (Garden)
The trampoline can be angled in three directions (diagonally up left, diagonally up right and upwards) and stays on stage, which causes balls that touch it to bounce in that direcfions (Wall)

Remind you, most of these moves and attributes are shown to be used by Daisy, so it's an unique moveset while keeping outrageous creative liberty away

 

[Freduardo]

So Mario and Luigi Superstar Saga DX data has been found on the eshop by hackers.

Does the DX stand for we added Daisy?

No, probably not.

But if there were a mario and Luigi game in sarasaland, how would you implement Daisy?

I'd probably go with Alternate (or at some points in the story complete x and y button using 4 person) party with her and Peach.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

So Mario and Luigi Superstar Saga DX data has been found on the eshop by hackers.

Does the DX stand for we added Daisy?

No, probably not.

But if there were a mario and Luigi game in sarasaland, how would you implement Daisy?

I'd probably go with Alternate (or at some points in the story complete x and y button using 4 person) party with her and Peach.

Yeah, probably either an important NPC or a new PC as the third button

 

[Tortilla Noggin]

Special non-tagging thanks to Tortilla for inspiring me to write the "Daisy is not a passive zoning character" rant that's in this write-up every two lines.

Hahaha, thanks. But how come I didn't get a tag? I feel left out, now.

Brilliant, brilliant write-up, by the way.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Hahaha, thanks. But how come I didn't get a tag? I feel left out, now.

Brilliant, brilliant write-up, by the way.

I already tagged quite a few people and I didn't want to tag too many people I guess.

Thanks for the compliment, I hope this might help Daisy speculation going forward

 

[Tortilla Noggin]

I already tagged quite a few people and I didn't want to tag too many people I guess.

Ahh, ok.

Thanks for the compliment, I hope this might help Daisy speculation going forward

I hope so too - it's a refreshingly different perspective, I think.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Ahh, ok.


I hope so too - it's a refreshingly different perspective, I think.

It's also a better way to start a discussion than anything outfit-related imo.
Absolutely no offense to anybody that likes to discuss that, as I do too, but I've seen a lot of that discussion so it gets a bit boring

 

[Ark of Silence101]

So Mario and Luigi Superstar Saga DX data has been found on the eshop by hackers.

Does the DX stand for we added Daisy?

No, probably not.

But if there were a mario and Luigi game in sarasaland, how would you implement Daisy?

I'd probably go with Alternate (or at some points in the story complete x and y button using 4 person) party with her and Peach.

I could see her in a similar vein to an important NPC with a role or two in helping Mario and Luigi out. I mean don't get me wrong, I would love it if she became playable in any way but so far only Paper Mario and the baby versions of the brothers have been playable outside of them.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

I could see her in a similar vein to an important NPC with a role or two in helping Mario and Luigi out. I mean don't get me wrong, I would love it if she became playable in any way but so far only Paper Mario and the baby versions of the brothers have been playable outside of them.

Yeah, though I'd prefer a role where she can show her powers

 

[Freduardo]

I could see her in a similar vein to an important NPC with a role or two in helping Mario and Luigi out. I mean don't get me wrong, I would love it if she became playable in any way but so far only Paper Mario and the baby versions of the brothers have been playable outside of them.

And Bowser, though he didn't get to join the party.

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

So Mario and Luigi Superstar Saga DX data has been found on the eshop by hackers.

Does the DX stand for we added Daisy?

No, probably not.

But if there were a mario and Luigi game in sarasaland, how would you implement Daisy?

I'd probably go with Alternate (or at some points in the story complete x and y button using 4 person) party with her and Peach.

I wish. But I doubt she will be a playable character in this game. lol

Though that's not to say that I'm curious on what it is.

Meanwhile, we have more of those Mario Rabbid RPG rumors that just don't know when to quit. Can't expect less from Emily.

Not sure if our leader is in a mood to help add new supporters because of "certain circumstances". Give him some time and he'll be ready to do so.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

My memory is foggy on who most of you are, except some like Tortilla and Aussie. But I figured you all would like this. Never forgotten about who's my Player One in these games.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

And I'll be updating that list. Writing a few names doesn't hurt with my recollecting brain.

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

My memory is foggy on who most of you are, except some like Tortilla and Aussie. But I figured you all would like this. Never forgotten about who's my Player One in these games.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

And I'll be updating that list. Writing a few names doesn't hurt with my recollecting brain.

Nice of your to share this with us. And I'm glad you are making some efforts to talk with your fellow Daisy fans despite your amnesia.

Perhaps Freduardo should talk more about his crazy Daisy ideas. That should help, right Freddy?

And FYI, it technically is on topic before you appear, Plague Knight.

 

[Ark of Silence101]

My memory is foggy on who most of you are, except some like Tortilla and Aussie. But I figured you all would like this. Never forgotten about who's my Player One in these games.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

And I'll be updating that list. Writing a few names doesn't hurt with my recollecting brain.

Goodness, I hope you can recollect all your memories Azure, best of luck you can do it.
Btw, although this isn't topic related, I thought I'd share this with all of you, my recent amiibo hunt was successful and here's my latest acquisition:

Spoiler

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

Goodness, I hope you can recollect all your memories Azure, best of luck you can do it.
Btw, although this isn't topic related, I thought I'd share this with all of you, my recent amiibo hunt was successful and here's my latest acquisition:
View attachment 128534

I think you need to put that in a spoiler since it's too big.

And thanks for the best wishes.

Anything else to say on the Mario & Luigi rumor and what it has to do with Daisy?

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Goodness, I hope you can recollect all your memories Azure, best of luck you can do it.
Btw, although this isn't topic related, I thought I'd share this with all of you, my recent amiibo hunt was successful and here's my latest acquisition:
View attachment 128534

Wait a minute, did I play Smash with you before?

And were one of your mains a Daisy colored Peach?

 

[AndreaAC]

Goodness, I hope you can recollect all your memories Azure, best of luck you can do it.
Btw, although this isn't topic related, I thought I'd share this with all of you, my recent amiibo hunt was successful and here's my latest acquisition:
View attachment 128534

I hope the same. :3 Good luck to both Aussie and Azure.

XD Lucky you, Ark! Hehe, the color of the support still makes me laugh a bit! Funny, some weeks ago I found a not new Rosalina amiibo, the perfect time when I feel like I didn't wanted to open the one I got from Target. In previous weeks I have indeed seen both Daisy and Peach figures (Not amiibos) and even plushies....but the cost was something that prevented me from getting them....

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

Wait a minute, did I play Smash with you before?

And were one of your mains a Daisy colored Peach?

That would be HanAmes, a far different person.

How about a little pop quiz. You remember the Ridley Daisy comics that Andrea made in the old place? The ones which he had to give her a ride to the Mushroom Kingdom?

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

That would be HanAmes, a far different person.

How about a little pop quiz. You remember the Ridley Daisy comics that Andrea made in the old place? The ones which he had to give her a ride to the Mushroom Kingdom?

Hmm. That signature, the style, and even the type of humor. Yes, I do. In fact, I know they were definitely from her.

And as for HanAmes, was he around for clone arguments of any kind? Did I say that right?

 

[AndreaAC]

That would be HanAmes, a far different person.

How about a little pop quiz. You remember the Ridley Daisy comics that Andrea made in the old place? The ones which he had to give her a ride to the Mushroom Kingdom?

Hmm. That signature, the style, and even the type of humor. Yes, I do. In fact, I know they were definitely from her.

And as for HanAmes, was he around for clone arguments of any kind? Did I say that right?

T U T Unfortunately, I can't access these old comics I never got to finish.....

xD I mean, I always loved to see your reactions and Aussie's whenever I made one of these, either with Daisy included or not.