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I really loved Double Dash and Mario Kart Wii, but 8 never did anything for me. Granted, I never even owned the game or a Wii U, but whenever I played it it just lacked the fun I had before and just replaced it with loops and pretty graphics.
Mario Kart Wii had terrible item balance, but at least that part was still FUN. Yeah, in a weird way it was awesome. It had great multi player, the characters where all great, and so where the tracks.
Double Dash literally did everything perfect imo. Wish that Mario Kart would go back to that formula.
I like how Daisy and Baby Daisy were OP in MKWii, which was a good game, if not the best in the series
Anyway, here's a Daisy-in-Smash related topic we haven't discussed yet (I mean we could talk about outfits and playstyles again and again but especially the outfit discussion gets boring quickly)
How much creative liberties would you want Sakurai to take with Daisy?
Here's a few examples of possible creative liberties for Daisy:
-Using a Piranha Plant, since it's a plant/flower
-Using Piranha Plant-related enemies
-Using other flowers, such as the Flower power-ups
-Using real-life plant mechanics, such as pollen
-Using the Lip's stick Flower effect for some moves
-Using Super Mario Land enemies
-Being a bare-knuckled brawler when she isn't
I'd like SMG's Floaty Fluff to appear as Daisy's Up B
I like how Daisy and Baby Daisy were OP in MKWii, which was a good game, if not the best in the series
Anyway, here's a Daisy-in-Smash related topic we haven't discussed yet (I mean we could talk about outfits and playstyles again and again but especially the outfit discussion gets boring quickly)
How much creative liberties would you want Sakurai to take with Daisy?
Here's a few examples of possible creative liberties for Daisy:
-Using a Piranha Plant, since it's a plant/flower
-Using Piranha Plant-related enemies
-Using other flowers, such as the Flower power-ups
-Using real-life plant mechanics, such as pollen
-Using the Lip's stick Flower effect for some moves
-Using Super Mario Land enemies
-Being a bare-knuckled brawler when she isn't
I'd like SMG's Floaty Fluff to appear as Daisy's Up B
I'd love Daisy to have a Poison Ivy type concept with control over flowers in her moveset. It ain't exactly what Daisy usually does but it would be very cool having a side smash Piranha Plant chomp or a sentry that shoots slow fireballs or an Usmash that brings a giant flower out of the ground to blast pollen upwards like Ivysaurs Usmash. I'd rather keep the Lip's Stick flower effect for Lip herself though, even though Daisy could utilize it somewhere in her moveset. I actually wanna make a moveset with this type of idea.
I'd love Daisy to have a Poison Ivy type concept with control over flowers in her moveset. It ain't exactly what Daisy usually does but it would be very cool having a side smash Piranha Plant chomp or a sentry that shoots slow fireballs or an Usmash that brings a giant flower out of the ground to blast pollen upwards like Ivysaurs Usmash. I'd rather keep the Lip's Stick flower effect for Lip herself though, even though Daisy could utilize it somewhere in her moveset. I actually wanna make a moveset with this type of idea.
What if she had a Down Special that makes a Flower garden appear, and in that garden several flower-related enemies appear for Daisy to pick up and carry around for attacks.
So she plants a garden and after a while, a Potted Piranha Plant appears.
Daisy can carry the pot around, with the Piranha Plant automatically biting opponents
What if she had a Down Special that makes a Flower garden appear, and in that garden several flower-related enemies appear for Daisy to pick up and carry around for attacks.
So she plants a garden and after a while, a Potted Piranha Plant appears.
Daisy can carry the pot around, with the Piranha Plant automatically biting opponents
You could make the potted plant very heavy, so she'll have to carry it around like a crate. She could be the first to summon a heavy item like that.
What other plants could she summon? We've got the Piranha Plant she could carry around, the Piranha Plant that shoots fire diagonally up or down, a stationary Ptooie that hovers a spiky ball up and down, a SMB2 Panser that shoots out fireballs in an arc, a SMW Volcano Lotus that shoots out 4 fireballs, any others?
You could make the potted plant very heavy, so she'll have to carry it around like a crate. She could be the first to summon a heavy item like that.
What other plants could she summon? We've got the Piranha Plant she could carry around, the Piranha Plant that shoots fire diagonally up or down, a stationary Ptooie that hovers a spiky ball up and down, a SMB2 Panser that shoots out fireballs in an arc, a SMW Volcano Lotus that shoots out 4 fireballs, any others?
Me: I don't think it's a good idea to just use all Flower-related things in one moveset
Also me: But what if Daisy could summon Flower Grapples (https://www.mariowiki.com/Flower_Grapple) that Piranha Plants automatically cling to!
If there's one thing she can possibly use more than flowers, U definitely would like to see a bigger focus on other notable Marioverse plants.
But not stuff like the Flower Powers ups though since she never really used them. Closest Power Ups that were ever used where the Mario Party 8 candy. And that stuff included things like turning into balls or a vampire.
If there's one thing she can possibly use more than flowers, U definitely would like to see a bigger focus on other notable Marioverse plants.
But not stuff like the Flower Powers ups though since she never really used them. Closest Power Ups that were ever used where the Mario Party 8 candy. And that stuff included things like turning into balls or a vampire.
Most of them were offhand suggestions than full trailers like Tortilla Noggin
and Luminario's. they would have no place on the OP unless they were full complete ideas.
And go ahead, screw up the NFC code and you won't play Daisy in Mario Party 10's glorified cash grab level anymore (not like anyone will miss it).
What if she had a Down Special that makes a Flower garden appear, and in that garden several flower-related enemies appear for Daisy to pick up and carry around for attacks.
So she plants a garden and after a while, a Potted Piranha Plant appears.
Daisy can carry the pot around, with the Piranha Plant automatically biting opponents
I'll just add that I do think Daisy is a valid choice for a newcomer because importance doesn't matter. The only reason it matters to Sakurai is because more important characters tend to be more recognizable, but Daisy is iconic without being at all important. I think people play down how recognizable Mario spinoff characters are. I still remember characters like Bee Queen and Baby Rosalina. I do see the appeal of playing as your favorite Mario spinoff character in Smash, so I support Daisy.
Daisy summons the plane and flies to the left side of the stage, entire stage gets a vaccum effect slowing drawing in enemies, kind of like a side scrolling shooter.
B: Bite
The Potted Piranha Plant bites, giving a speed boost to Daisy
Side B: Spores and ****
The Piranha Plant shoots spores from his mouth, which in turn summon all kinds of plant-related enemies
Up B: Flower Grapple
Daisy throws three Flower Grapples upwards in a diagonal line.
The Piranha Plant then reaches to bite these Flower Grapples one by one
I'll just add that I do think Daisy is a valid choice for a newcomer because importance doesn't matter. The only reason it matters to Sakurai is because more important characters tend to be more recognizable, but Daisy is iconic without being at all important. I think people play down how recognizable Mario spinoff characters are. I still remember characters like Bee Queen and Baby Rosalina. I do see the appeal of playing as your favorite Mario spinoff character in Smash, so I support Daisy.
I think Daisy's important because she appears in so many games as a playable character.
Mario Kart, Mario Party, Mario Golf, Mario Tennis, Mario Baseball, Mario Strikers, she's in everything.
Daisy summons the plane and flies to the left side of the stage, entire stage gets a vaccum effect slowing drawing in enemies, kind of like a side scrolling shooter.
It's always refreshing to see someone else who recognises this! I've mentioned this several times, myself, in relation to how Smash itself is a spin-off, and how seeing Daisy in it is a perfectly reasonable expectation.
Of course, I know that I'm probably in the minority, here, in that I like Daisy as a result of fondness for playing Super Mario Land back in the day (i.e., as a result of her debut title, which was in the mainline series), but I know that for most people, it's largely due to her appearances in spin-offs.
Oh I forgot Jiggs had that in Rest. Still though, that's only one move that's like super hard to land and I'm guessing they couldn't just slap on 40% straight away so I still want the flower effect to be Lip's gimmick to boost her viability. I just want Lip in Smash too
I swear though if Daisy gets the flower effect gimmick that just adds more to that "Lip grows up into Daisy" conspiracy several pages back.
I still kinda want them to go nuts with the flower power and make Daisy into a Poison Ivy character.
You guys ACTUALLY got solid ideas for Daisy... This is surprising. Has the Daisy thread became the new Ridley thread? Am I losing my mind? Is Daisy a viable choice? Do I want her? Is Daisy In Her SPORTS Outfit the ultimate , or regular Daisy? Or regular Daisy in a slightly more sporty outfit...???
You guys ACTUALLY got solid ideas for Daisy... This is surprising. Has the Daisy thread became the new Ridley thread? Am I losing my mind? Is Daisy a viable choice? Do I want her? Is Daisy In Her SPORTS Outfit the ultimate , or regular Daisy? Or regular Daisy in a slightly more sporty outfit...???
That's one of the charms of Daisy, she can be a lot of things.
An athlete, a flower mage, piranha plant petter, super mario land-summoner, superball shooter, or even a cheerleader like she kinda was in Mario Sports Mix (or a peach clone i guess)
I wish her Tennis Dress/Golf Dress was used more, it fits her well but both Sports outfit and Dress are more iconic
You guys ACTUALLY got solid ideas for Daisy... This is surprising. Has the Daisy thread became the new Ridley thread? Am I losing my mind? Is Daisy a viable choice? Do I want her? Is Daisy In Her SPORTS Outfit the ultimate , or regular Daisy? Or regular Daisy in a slightly more sporty outfit...???
lmao let us LIVE it took us a while but once we got past the DIHSO discourse we can now move onto the "how much flower power can Daisy have" discourse.
Ooooh give us some more info on how that might work.
lmao let us LIVE it took us a while but once we got past the DIHSO discourse we can now move onto the "how much flower power can Daisy have" discourse.
Basically, Daisy would carry around a Potted Piranha Plant that gives speed boosts like in MK8 and can grapple onto lil flowers (like Yoshi in SMG2, see https://www.mariowiki.com/Flower_Grapple) for some vine-swinging action.
Which would focus less on spouting seeds for stage control and more on high speed biting
Basically, Daisy would carry around a Potted Piranha Plant that gives speed boosts like in MK8 and can grapple onto lil flowers (like Yoshi in SMG2, see https://www.mariowiki.com/Flower_Grapple) for some vine-swinging action.
Which would focus less on spouting seeds for stage control and more on high speed biting
Yeah, Piranha Plants have a lot of potential.
Stage Control gardens, grappling hook, whip, vine walls (which coupled with Venus Fly Trap Fireballs can turn into burning walls)
That's one of the charms of Daisy, she can be a lot of things.
An athlete, a flower mage, piranha plant petter, super mario land-summoner, superball shooter, or even a cheerleader like she kinda was in Mario Sports Mix (or a peach clone i guess)
I wish her Tennis Dress/Golf Dress was used more, it fits her well but both Sports outfit and Dress are more iconic
General Info
This take on Daisy uses the clone/semi-clone route while also borrowing a little fromand of course having a few moves of her own to differentiate her. Overall this moveset is meant to reflect Daisy being Peach's Luigi, while still reflecting her personality by being a little more playful/spunky.
Overall Daisy is a bit faster and stronger than but is slightly heavier and lacks her floating ability. Many of her attacks like U-Tilt, Smash Attacks, FAIR, UAIR, Side Special, etc. also spawn flowers or leave trails of petals. These are mostly aesthetic and highlight Daisy's affinity for flowers. Neutral Jab - Two slaps like but ends with a hip thrust like Forward Tilt - Up Tilt - but with flowers and petals Down Tilt - Dash Attack - Daisy throws herself forward, pushing opponents out of the way, and falling onto the ground. Forward Smash - Daisy swings a golf club. NOT like 's F-Smash, but a proper golf swing. Does not cycle through different tools like 's Up Smash - Daisy performs an overhead swing with a tennis racquet. Down Smash - Neutral Air - Forward Air - Daisy performs a quick kick forward. Somewhat similar to Back Air - Up Air - Down Air - Daisy stomps downward with both legs together. Not a spike. Grab - Pummel - Forward Throw - Back Throw - Up Throw - Down Throw -
Neutral Special: Superball - Daisy throws a Superball, which will bounce off of surfaces until it hits an opponent, falls off stage, or just disappears after a few moments. Taken from Super Mario Land.
Side Special: Daisy Bomber - Functions like Peach Bomber, but stronger and with a bit less range.
Up Special: Parasol - Function's like 's Parasol, but is accompanied by a small flurry of petals that extend the attack range. Deals a bit more damage and covers about the same height. Down Special: Piranha Plant - Similar animation to Vegetable, but instead of pulling something from the ground, Daisy plants a Piranha Plant. It will not appear right away however, taking a few moments to sprout.
The Piranha Plant will bite opponents that get in it's range. After taking enough damage it will wilt and disappear. Only one may be active at any given time.
Players can also manually command the Piranha Plant to spit fireballs by pressing Down B again.
Overall the Piranha Plant serves as trap/hazard/stationary minion sort of move, which gives Daisy something a little more unique while still being for the most part, a semi-clone.
A little creative liberty was taken here, in order to give her a Down Special that didn't borrow off Peach again as Vegetable wouldn't really be fitting. This was chosen to loosely fit with her general affinity for flowers, without making it the central focus of her moveset.
Final Smash: Sky Pop - Taken from Super Mario Land. Daisy jumps into the small Sky Pop plane from Super Mario Land and can then fly around stage to shoot at opponents. fires it's gun which shoots a continuous stream of bullets (cartoonish and with exaggerated trails of course) for as long as the button is held. fires missiles.
Both projectiles have decent reach but do no travel the full length of the stage; with FD as an example, the bullets travel about a third of the stage length and pepper on lots of damage, while the missiles will fly to just over half the stage length, but are harder to land and must be fired one by one.
Costumes
00 - Default Yellow (Main Dress)
01 - Peach Pink
02 - Luigi Green
03 - Mario Red
04 - Blue
05 - Purple
06 - Gameboy Grayscale
07 - Classic Daisy
--------------------------
08 - Sports Dress
09 - White
10 - Red
11 - Green
--------------------------
12 - Sports Outfit
13 - Orange
14 - Blue
15 - Black
I know this sounds like a boring idea for many, especially those who want to take more creative liberty to give Daisy a completely unique set of abilities, but I personally feel the clone/semi clone route is just fine. Daisy has an affinity for flowers and a more outgoing personality than Peach, but aside from that her role within the Mario cast has been more or less serving as the Luigi to Peach herself. And again, it's just my opinion, but I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing.
I'd of course like her to eventually grow as a character and be utilized more as has been the case with Luigi over the years, but I don't think being "a Luigi" style of character necessarily detracts from what she has to offer. I see nothing wrong with her being a similar case to when it falls in line perfectly with her character and role within the series.
I know many really want her to stand out with a really unique gimmick or set of abilities so as to shut down her detractors, and taking some creative liberty is perfectly fine. However, I think taking too much creative liberty for the sake of making a character more unique runs the risk of making that interpretation of the character feel forced.
And of course there are cases like where an immense amount of creative liberties were taken, as they were kind of outright necessary in order to make movesets for them. With these two in mind though, their abilities reflect their games very well and serve to represent the games a as whole, rather than the particular abilities of said characters.
This is something Daisy unfortunately doesn't really have, and while you still can pull bits and pieces here and there from the many spin-offs and Super Mario Land there's little to use unless you turn in her to "randomness/spin-offs" the character, which (imo) doesn't really suit her or lend itself well to her abilities aside from maybe using a tennis racquet or golf club in one or two moves like Peach.
This is also why, while I like the idea of a Poison Ivy style character, I don't see it being the main focus of her moveset, because despite her affinity for flowers, it's usually for aesthetic purposes and can't really be used to reflect any of the games she's actually in. The Flower Grapples for example while an interesting idea, aren't related to her at all.
tl;dr - Daisy has very little to pull from in general, and trying to pull too much makes for a moveset that feels sloppily put together. There'd be no cohesion. On the other hand, expanding fully on the flower motif would require creative liberties to the point that the character is more or less reinvented, but doesn't really reflect who she is/where she's from like with
I know this sounds like a boring idea for many, especially those who want to take more creative liberty to give Daisy a completely unique set of abilities, but I personally feel the clone/semi clone route is just fine.
I know this sounds like a boring idea for many, especially those who want to take more creative liberty to give Daisy a completely unique set of abilities, but I personally feel the clone/semi clone route is just fine. Daisy has an affinity for flowers and a more outgoing personality than Peach, but aside from that her role within the Mario cast has been more or less serving as the Luigi to Peach herself. And again, it's just my opinion, but I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing.
I'd of course like her to eventually grow as a character and be utilized more as has been the case with Luigi over the years, but I don't think being "a Luigi" style of character necessarily detracts from what she has to offer. I see nothing wrong with her being a similar case to when it falls in line perfectly with her character and role within the series.
I know many really want her to stand out with a really unique gimmick or set of abilities so as to shut down her detractors, and taking some creative liberty is perfectly fine. However, I think taking too much creative liberty for the sake of making a character more unique runs the risk of making that interpretation of the character feel forced.
And of course there are cases like where an immense amount of creative liberties were taken, as they were kind of outright necessary in order to make movesets for them. With these two in mind though, their abilities reflect their games very well and serve to represent the games a as whole, rather than the particular abilities of said characters.
This is something Daisy unfortunately doesn't really have, and while you still can pull bits and pieces here and there from the many spin-offs and Super Mario Land there's little to use unless you turn in her to "randomness/spin-offs" the character, which (imo) doesn't really suit her or lend itself well to her abilities aside from maybe using a tennis racquet or golf club in one or two moves like Peach.
This is also why, while I like the idea of a Poison Ivy style character, I don't see it being the main focus of her moveset, because despite her affinity for flowers, it's usually for aesthetic purposes and can't really be used to reflect any of the games she's actually in. The Flower Grapples for example while an interesting idea, aren't related to her at all.
tl;dr - Daisy has very little to pull from in general, and trying to pull too much makes for a moveset that feels sloppily put together. There'd be no cohesion. On the other hand, expanding fully on the flower motif would require creative liberties to the point that the character is more or less reinvented, but doesn't really reflect who she is/where she's from like with
Daisy being a semi-clone is fine, it works for her and is likely how she will be added. The only complaint in the moveset I have is that Utilt isn't Peach's Melee headbutt.
To be honest, I don't think anyone here is really expecting some Poison Ivy or SML enemy summoner moveset for her in the actual game, we're just having a bit of fun with the thought of it. Control over vines and such will likely go to Isaac or a grass Pokemon.
Daisy being a semi-clone is fine, it works for her and is likely how she will be added. The only complaint in the moveset I have is that Utilt isn't Peach's Melee headbutt.
To be honest, I don't think anyone here is really expecting some Poison Ivy or SML enemy summoner moveset for her in the actual game, we're just having a bit of fun with the thought of it. Control over vines and such will likely go to Isaac or a grass Pokemon.
I honestly forgot Peach's U-Tilt was a headbutt in Melee. I started playing Smash from Brawl onward so I only caught the old Up Air since that was still the same in Brawl.
I like how Daisy and Baby Daisy were OP in MKWii, which was a good game, if not the best in the series
Anyway, here's a Daisy-in-Smash related topic we haven't discussed yet (I mean we could talk about outfits and playstyles again and again but especially the outfit discussion gets boring quickly)
How much creative liberties would you want Sakurai to take with Daisy?
Here's a few examples of possible creative liberties for Daisy:
-Using a Piranha Plant, since it's a plant/flower
-Using Piranha Plant-related enemies
-Using other flowers, such as the Flower power-ups
-Using real-life plant mechanics, such as pollen
-Using the Lip's stick Flower effect for some moves
-Using Super Mario Land enemies
-Being a bare-knuckled brawler when she isn't
I'd like SMG's Floaty Fluff to appear as Daisy's Up B
As soon as you said the Piranha Plant, I figured maybe she could plant it like a trap in a similar vein to , but unlike his, it would only sprout to attack once and wither, repeating the process.
General Info
This take on Daisy uses the clone/semi-clone route while also borrowing a little fromand of course having a few moves of her own to differentiate her. Overall this moveset is meant to reflect Daisy being Peach's Luigi, while still reflecting her personality by being a little more playful/spunky.
Overall Daisy is a bit faster and stronger than but is slightly heavier and lacks her floating ability. Many of her attacks like U-Tilt, Smash Attacks, FAIR, UAIR, Side Special, etc. also spawn flowers or leave trails of petals. These are mostly aesthetic and highlight Daisy's affinity for flowers. Neutral Jab - Two slaps like but ends with a hip thrust like Forward Tilt - Up Tilt - but with flowers and petals Down Tilt - Dash Attack - Daisy throws herself forward, pushing opponents out of the way, and falling onto the ground. Forward Smash - Daisy swings a golf club. NOT like 's F-Smash, but a proper golf swing. Does not cycle through different tools like 's Up Smash - Daisy performs an overhead swing with a tennis racquet. Down Smash - Neutral Air - Forward Air - Daisy performs a quick kick forward. Somewhat similar to Back Air - Up Air - Down Air - Daisy stomps downward with both legs together. Not a spike. Grab - Pummel - Forward Throw - Back Throw - Up Throw - Down Throw -
Neutral Special: Superball - Daisy throws a Superball, which will bounce off of surfaces until it hits an opponent, falls off stage, or just disappears after a few moments. Taken from Super Mario Land.
Side Special: Daisy Bomber - Functions like Peach Bomber, but stronger and with a bit less range.
Up Special: Parasol - Function's like 's Parasol, but is accompanied by a small flurry of petals that extend the attack range. Deals a bit more damage and covers about the same height. Down Special: Piranha Plant - Similar animation to Vegetable, but instead of pulling something from the ground, Daisy plants a Piranha Plant. It will not appear right away however, taking a few moments to sprout.
The Piranha Plant will bite opponents that get in it's range. After taking enough damage it will wilt and disappear. Only one may be active at any given time.
Players can also manually command the Piranha Plant to spit fireballs by pressing Down B again.
Overall the Piranha Plant serves as trap/hazard/stationary minion sort of move, which gives Daisy something a little more unique while still being for the most part, a semi-clone.
A little creative liberty was taken here, in order to give her a Down Special that didn't borrow off Peach again as Vegetable wouldn't really be fitting. This was chosen to loosely fit with her general affinity for flowers, without making it the central focus of her moveset.
Final Smash: Sky Pop - Taken from Super Mario Land. Daisy jumps into the small Sky Pop plane from Super Mario Land and can then fly around stage to shoot at opponents. fires it's gun which shoots a continuous stream of bullets (cartoonish and with exaggerated trails of course) for as long as the button is held. fires missiles.
Both projectiles have decent reach but do no travel the full length of the stage; with FD as an example, the bullets travel about a third of the stage length and pepper on lots of damage, while the missiles will fly to just over half the stage length, but are harder to land and must be fired one by one.
Costumes
00 - Default Yellow (Main Dress)
01 - Peach Pink
02 - Luigi Green
03 - Mario Red
04 - Blue
05 - Purple
06 - Gameboy Grayscale
07 - Classic Daisy
--------------------------
08 - Sports Dress
09 - White
10 - Red
11 - Green
--------------------------
12 - Sports Outfit
13 - Orange
14 - Blue
15 - Black
I know this sounds like a boring idea for many, especially those who want to take more creative liberty to give Daisy a completely unique set of abilities, but I personally feel the clone/semi clone route is just fine. Daisy has an affinity for flowers and a more outgoing personality than Peach, but aside from that her role within the Mario cast has been more or less serving as the Luigi to Peach herself. And again, it's just my opinion, but I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing.
I'd of course like her to eventually grow as a character and be utilized more as has been the case with Luigi over the years, but I don't think being "a Luigi" style of character necessarily detracts from what she has to offer. I see nothing wrong with her being a similar case to when it falls in line perfectly with her character and role within the series.
I know many really want her to stand out with a really unique gimmick or set of abilities so as to shut down her detractors, and taking some creative liberty is perfectly fine. However, I think taking too much creative liberty for the sake of making a character more unique runs the risk of making that interpretation of the character feel forced.
And of course there are cases like where an immense amount of creative liberties were taken, as they were kind of outright necessary in order to make movesets for them. With these two in mind though, their abilities reflect their games very well and serve to represent the games a as whole, rather than the particular abilities of said characters.
This is something Daisy unfortunately doesn't really have, and while you still can pull bits and pieces here and there from the many spin-offs and Super Mario Land there's little to use unless you turn in her to "randomness/spin-offs" the character, which (imo) doesn't really suit her or lend itself well to her abilities aside from maybe using a tennis racquet or golf club in one or two moves like Peach.
This is also why, while I like the idea of a Poison Ivy style character, I don't see it being the main focus of her moveset, because despite her affinity for flowers, it's usually for aesthetic purposes and can't really be used to reflect any of the games she's actually in. The Flower Grapples for example while an interesting idea, aren't related to her at all.
tl;dr - Daisy has very little to pull from in general, and trying to pull too much makes for a moveset that feels sloppily put together. There'd be no cohesion. On the other hand, expanding fully on the flower motif would require creative liberties to the point that the character is more or less reinvented, but doesn't really reflect who she is/where she's from like with
So I kept thinking about them going all out on the plant manipulation concept so I made a moveset for it
Jab: 2 slaps followed by a swift turnaround kick with her heel.
Flurry: 2 vines appear from the ground and start whipping ahead. Pretty much Ivysaur's flurry.
Ftilt: Quick jab forward with a vine.
Utilt: Daisy sends out a vine upwards to catch foes. ZSS's old up B.
Dtilt: Daisy creates a daisy that spins close to the ground. Multihit.
Dash: Daisy spins and swipes her hand downward, creating a daisy that spins with her hand.
Fsmash: brings out a vine that whacks the ground in front violently.
Usmash: creates a giant bud above her that shoots out a burst of pollen. Ivysaur's Usmash.
Dsmash: creates a giant daisy below her that spins rapidly as she stands at the centre spinning with it. multihit like Peach's Dsmash.
Nair: creates 2 daisies that spin around her centre horizontally.
Fair: creates a spinning daisy in front of her. Multihit.
Bair: grabs the crown off her head with a vine and whips behind her horizontally. Sweetspot at the crown.
Uair: vertical swipe upwards with a vine.
Dair: slash downward with a vine followed by a swift kick.
Grab: Daisy summons 2 vines that constrict the opponent.
Pummel: the vines constrict.
Fthrow/Bthrow: throws the foe forwards/backwards.
Uthrow: A giant flower appears below the opponent and swallows them up before shooting the upwards in a cloud of pollen.
Dthrow: The vines lift the opponent up before whacking them in the ground behind Daisy then again in front of her.
B: Superball. Shoots a ball that bounces along the ground quickly at different angles depending on the angle chosen. Good pestering tool.
Side B: Flower Bat. Brings out a bat that she then swings. Reflector.
Up B: Flower Grapple. Daisy stops for a moment before throwing out a vine that connects to a floating daisy in the air in the direction chosen. Daisy can then swing on this freely pressing forwards or backwards generating more momentum and sending you further around the daisy. Upon pressing B again Daisy will fly towards the floating daisy and continue with the momentum that generates in the direction she was heading. latches to the ledge immediately if the floating daisy or vine is close enough to it during startup.
Down B: Green Thumb. Daisy puts her hand to the ground as a translucent image of what can be summoned appears in front of her. Chargeable move that cycles through what can be summoned and can be cancelled but the charge can't be held.
Piranha Plant. Chomps at people that come into distance of it. Can change direction.
Venus Fire Trap. Shoots 2 fireballs out at set times, one up diagonally and one down. only faces the same way it is summoned.
PomPom Flower. Moving plant that stops then shoots out a fireball straight upwards.
Volcano Lotus. Shoots 4 fireballs out that slowly fall. The falling fireballs go through the stage.
Panser. Moving plant that shoots out fireballs forward and behind in set intervals.
Then I made a more logical Luigi-fied moveset.
Entrance: Daisy spins in surrounded by petals.
Idle: Daisy bounces slightly back ond forth in a fighters stance, ready to kick ass.
Jab: 2 punches.
Ftilt: Tennis racquet horizontal swipe. Angle can be chosen.
Utilt: Peach Melee headbutt.
Dtilt: Same as Peach's.
Dash: Thrusts her hands forwards Peach dash attack style, then falls on her face.
Fsmash: Grabs the crown off her head and punches forward hard. Laggy but good kill move.
Usmash: Same as Peach's but less graceful.
Dsmash: Daisy crouches then spins with her leg extended backwards. Essentially the final hit of Peach's Dsmash.
Nair: Same as Peach's.
Fair: Dons the cheerleader pompoms from Mario Sports Mix and wails them in front of her 3 times, with the final hit being a weak spike.
Bair: ZSS Bair kick. Kill move.
Uair: Melee/Brawl Peach's Uair.
Dair: Same as Peach's but with 3 kicks instead.
Grab/Pummel/Uthrow/Dthrow: Same as Peach's.
Fthrow: Punch to the face.
Bthrow: A kick away.
B: Superball Serve. A ball that bounces along the ground in 3 different angles depending on the direction held during startup.
Side B: Flower Swing. Brings out a bat and swings forwards as soon as the button is let go. Reflecter and alright kill move.
Up B: Twist n' Out. Daisy summons a flower field below her before flying up in a flurry of petals. big windbox upwards and damaging with no knockback to opponents.
Down B: Daisy Fly Trap. Summons a bud on the ground beneath her feet that acts as a landmine. If hit, touched, or down B is pressed again it opens and expels pollen that stuns.
Taunt 1: Spins then waves towards the camera saying "Hi I'm Daisy~".
Taunt 2: Strikes a pose with her fist in the air.
Taunt 3: Brings out a Superball and bounces it off the ground twice, tennis style.
So I kept thinking about them going all out on the plant manipulation concept so I made a moveset for it
Jab: 2 slaps followed by a swift turnaround kick with her heel.
Flurry: 2 vines appear from the ground and start whipping ahead. Pretty much Ivysaur's flurry.
Ftilt: Quick jab forward with a vine.
Utilt: Daisy sends out a vine upwards to catch foes. ZSS's old up B.
Dtilt: Daisy creates a daisy that spins close to the ground. Multihit.
Dash: Daisy spins and swipes her hand downward, creating a daisy that spins with her hand.
Fsmash: brings out a vine that whacks the ground in front violently.
Usmash: creates a giant bud above her that shoots out a burst of pollen. Ivysaur's Usmash.
Dsmash: creates a giant daisy below her that spins rapidly as she stands at the centre spinning with it. multihit like Peach's Dsmash.
Nair: creates 2 daisies that spin around her centre horizontally.
Fair: creates a spinning daisy in front of her. Multihit.
Bair: grabs the crown off her head with a vine and whips behind her horizontally. Sweetspot at the crown.
Uair: vertical swipe upwards with a vine.
Dair: slash downward with a vine followed by a swift kick.
Grab: Daisy summons 2 vines that constrict the opponent.
Pummel: the vines constrict.
Fthrow/Bthrow: throws the foe forwards/backwards.
Uthrow: A giant flower appears below the opponent and swallows them up before shooting the upwards in a cloud of pollen.
Dthrow: The vines lift the opponent up before whacking them in the ground behind Daisy then again in front of her.
B: Superball. Shoots a ball that bounces along the ground quickly at different angles depending on the angle chosen. Good pestering tool.
Side B: Flower Bat. Brings out a bat that she then swings. Reflector.
Up B: Flower Grapple. Daisy stops for a moment before throwing out a vine that connects to a floating daisy in the air in the direction chosen. Daisy can then swing on this freely pressing forwards or backwards generating more momentum and sending you further around the daisy. Upon pressing B again Daisy will fly towards the floating daisy and continue with the momentum that generates in the direction she was heading. latches to the ledge immediately if the floating daisy or vine is close enough to it during startup.
Down B: Green Thumb. Daisy puts her hand to the ground as a translucent image of what can be summoned appears in front of her. Chargeable move that cycles through what can be summoned and can be cancelled but the charge can't be held.
Piranha Plant. Chomps at people that come into distance of it. Can change direction.
Venus Fire Trap. Shoots 2 fireballs out at set times, one up diagonally and one down. only faces the same way it is summoned.
PomPom Flower. Moving plant that stops then shoots out a fireball straight upwards.
Volcano Lotus. Shoots 4 fireballs out that slowly fall. The falling fireballs go through the stage.
Panser. Moving plant that shoots out fireballs forward and behind in set intervals.
Then I made a more logical Luigi-fied moveset.
Entrance: Daisy spins in surrounded by petals.
Idle: Daisy bounces slightly back ond forth in a fighters stance, ready to kick ***.
Jab: 2 punches.
Ftilt: Tennis racquet horizontal swipe. Angle can be chosen.
Utilt: Peach Melee headbutt.
Dtilt: Same as Peach's.
Dash: Thrusts her hands forwards Peach dash attack style, then falls on her face.
Fsmash: Grabs the crown off her head and punches forward hard. Laggy but good kill move.
Usmash: Same as Peach's but less graceful.
Dsmash: Daisy crouches then spins with her leg extended backwards. Essentially the final hit of Peach's Dsmash.
Nair: Same as Peach's.
Fair: Dons the cheerleader pompoms from Mario Sports Mix and wails them in front of her 3 times, with the final hit being a weak spike.
Bair: ZSS Bair kick. Kill move.
Uair: Melee/Brawl Peach's Uair.
Dair: Same as Peach's but with 3 kicks instead.
Grab/Pummel/Uthrow/Dthrow: Same as Peach's.
Fthrow: Punch to the face.
Bthrow: A kick away.
B: Superball Serve. A ball that bounces along the ground in 3 different angles depending on the direction held during startup.
Side B: Flower Swing. Brings out a bat and swings forwards as soon as the button is let go. Reflecter and alright kill move.
Up B: Twist n' Out. Daisy summons a flower field below her before flying up in a flurry of petals. big windbox upwards and damaging with no knockback to opponents.
Down B: Daisy Fly Trap. Summons a bud on the ground beneath her feet that acts as a landmine. If hit, touched, or down B is pressed again it opens and expels pollen that stuns.
Taunt 1: Spins then waves towards the camera saying "Hi I'm Daisy~".
Taunt 2: Strikes a pose with her fist in the air.
Taunt 3: Brings out a Superball and bounces it off the ground twice, tennis style.
Nicely done, Luminario, this style seems to turn her into a stage control type of character. This means that while she would overall require a lot skill to master, she would be very rewarding in the long run, nice.
I personally prefer the unique Poison Ivy movesets ideas (besides the fact that they gear towards stage control which is a healthy investment for any character) for the sake of being a completely separate character. We've seen plenty of examples where the "Luigi-fied" characters might make it easier to develop a character, especially if a he or she is similar enough to another one, but this causes the risk of being compared negatively to the "base" characters. If Daisy was included as a semi-clone of Peach (while I can see it happening), we would see people start comparing the two to try to conclude if one character is more worthy of being played. The other instance that might happen with the "Luigi-fied" characters is that they would outright be compared to others as worse versions of other characters in a similar archetype. In other words, I prefer the creativity to make it easier for some others to look only at Daisy objectively as a character instead of something happening similar to "Lucina is just a worse Marth due to no tipper mechanics" or "Roy is a worse Captain Falcon" to name a few examples.
In regards to the argument involving how her moveset has to fit her as a character, the instances with Fox and Captain Falcon prove that there has to sometimes be creative liberty involved in order to have the character fit in a fighting game. Even Peach has a moveset that had to be made up slightly. Peach's Fair is where she slaps you with her crown. I'd like to know what game has that move available to be used in Smash. Luminario along with WeirdChillFever have given some ideas that fit the flower motif and imo the athlete theme as well. The clone or semi-clone route is only safer since it has been done before but doesn't mean that it helps set the next Smash game or even the next port (if it ends up as that) apart from the past games.
No.
Because I don't think there's a difference between Daisy using a Potted Piranha Plant and Waluigi using one
Daisy hasn't been related to Piranha Plants despite the flowerish motive she carries.
On top of that, Daisy wouldn't add anything to the moveset, she'd just carry the pot and let the Piranha, which she is not affiliated with in any game, do the dancing for her.
Tinkering about a Piranha Plant moveset was really fun but none of the ideas required Daisy or gained their uniqueness from Daisy's powers or personality, except maybe the fact she's courageous and slim enough to hold onto a Piranha Plant Grappling Hook.
Tl;dr
These Piranha Plant ideas are fun but exchange Daisy for Captain Toad and not only does it change nada, it might also fit the Cap better
General Info
This take on Daisy uses the clone/semi-clone route while also borrowing a little fromand of course having a few moves of her own to differentiate her. Overall this moveset is meant to reflect Daisy being Peach's Luigi, while still reflecting her personality by being a little more playful/spunky.
Overall Daisy is a bit faster and stronger than but is slightly heavier and lacks her floating ability. Many of her attacks like U-Tilt, Smash Attacks, FAIR, UAIR, Side Special, etc. also spawn flowers or leave trails of petals. These are mostly aesthetic and highlight Daisy's affinity for flowers. Neutral Jab - Two slaps like but ends with a hip thrust like Forward Tilt - Up Tilt - but with flowers and petals Down Tilt - Dash Attack - Daisy throws herself forward, pushing opponents out of the way, and falling onto the ground. Forward Smash - Daisy swings a golf club. NOT like 's F-Smash, but a proper golf swing. Does not cycle through different tools like 's Up Smash - Daisy performs an overhead swing with a tennis racquet. Down Smash - Neutral Air - Forward Air - Daisy performs a quick kick forward. Somewhat similar to Back Air - Up Air - Down Air - Daisy stomps downward with both legs together. Not a spike. Grab - Pummel - Forward Throw - Back Throw - Up Throw - Down Throw -
Neutral Special: Superball - Daisy throws a Superball, which will bounce off of surfaces until it hits an opponent, falls off stage, or just disappears after a few moments. Taken from Super Mario Land.
Side Special: Daisy Bomber - Functions like Peach Bomber, but stronger and with a bit less range.
Up Special: Parasol - Function's like 's Parasol, but is accompanied by a small flurry of petals that extend the attack range. Deals a bit more damage and covers about the same height. Down Special: Piranha Plant - Similar animation to Vegetable, but instead of pulling something from the ground, Daisy plants a Piranha Plant. It will not appear right away however, taking a few moments to sprout.
The Piranha Plant will bite opponents that get in it's range. After taking enough damage it will wilt and disappear. Only one may be active at any given time.
Players can also manually command the Piranha Plant to spit fireballs by pressing Down B again.
Overall the Piranha Plant serves as trap/hazard/stationary minion sort of move, which gives Daisy something a little more unique while still being for the most part, a semi-clone.
A little creative liberty was taken here, in order to give her a Down Special that didn't borrow off Peach again as Vegetable wouldn't really be fitting. This was chosen to loosely fit with her general affinity for flowers, without making it the central focus of her moveset.
Final Smash: Sky Pop - Taken from Super Mario Land. Daisy jumps into the small Sky Pop plane from Super Mario Land and can then fly around stage to shoot at opponents. fires it's gun which shoots a continuous stream of bullets (cartoonish and with exaggerated trails of course) for as long as the button is held. fires missiles.
Both projectiles have decent reach but do no travel the full length of the stage; with FD as an example, the bullets travel about a third of the stage length and pepper on lots of damage, while the missiles will fly to just over half the stage length, but are harder to land and must be fired one by one.
Costumes
00 - Default Yellow (Main Dress)
01 - Peach Pink
02 - Luigi Green
03 - Mario Red
04 - Blue
05 - Purple
06 - Gameboy Grayscale
07 - Classic Daisy
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08 - Sports Dress
09 - White
10 - Red
11 - Green
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12 - Sports Outfit
13 - Orange
14 - Blue
15 - Black
I know this sounds like a boring idea for many, especially those who want to take more creative liberty to give Daisy a completely unique set of abilities, but I personally feel the clone/semi clone route is just fine. Daisy has an affinity for flowers and a more outgoing personality than Peach, but aside from that her role within the Mario cast has been more or less serving as the Luigi to Peach herself. And again, it's just my opinion, but I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing.
I'd of course like her to eventually grow as a character and be utilized more as has been the case with Luigi over the years, but I don't think being "a Luigi" style of character necessarily detracts from what she has to offer. I see nothing wrong with her being a similar case to when it falls in line perfectly with her character and role within the series.
I know many really want her to stand out with a really unique gimmick or set of abilities so as to shut down her detractors, and taking some creative liberty is perfectly fine. However, I think taking too much creative liberty for the sake of making a character more unique runs the risk of making that interpretation of the character feel forced.
And of course there are cases like where an immense amount of creative liberties were taken, as they were kind of outright necessary in order to make movesets for them. With these two in mind though, their abilities reflect their games very well and serve to represent the games a as whole, rather than the particular abilities of said characters.
This is something Daisy unfortunately doesn't really have, and while you still can pull bits and pieces here and there from the many spin-offs and Super Mario Land there's little to use unless you turn in her to "randomness/spin-offs" the character, which (imo) doesn't really suit her or lend itself well to her abilities aside from maybe using a tennis racquet or golf club in one or two moves like Peach.
This is also why, while I like the idea of a Poison Ivy style character, I don't see it being the main focus of her moveset, because despite her affinity for flowers, it's usually for aesthetic purposes and can't really be used to reflect any of the games she's actually in. The Flower Grapples for example while an interesting idea, aren't related to her at all.
tl;dr - Daisy has very little to pull from in general, and trying to pull too much makes for a moveset that feels sloppily put together. There'd be no cohesion. On the other hand, expanding fully on the flower motif would require creative liberties to the point that the character is more or less reinvented, but doesn't really reflect who she is/where she's from like with
I think there's a difference between several creative liberties.
Yes, I think Poison Daisy isn't the way to go because it'd require so many creative liberties, hauling moves from games she wasn't even in and probably turning her into a Stage Controller through her gardens instead of having rushdown elements like she should.
But that doesn't mean she can't be creative with what we're given.
Because with Daisy, we are given an athlete (or if you want to put it in other terms, a representant of the Mario Sports series)
Almost all of her trophies in Smash portray her taking part in the various Mario sports games.
First of all we're given a very robust moveset core in Super Mario Land's Superball.
It fits her, not only because Super Mario Land was her debut game, but also because it can be used as a Generic Sports Ball from all the spin-offs.
With her not only being able to shoot sport balls, but also having them tied to her debut game while the balls also have an unique trajectory to them (since they bounce of everything), she's killing multiple birds with one ball.
Then you can add multiple of the more generic flowery specials and since they all interact with the ball in the source game, turning them into Flower Balls that obscure view or again, plant the famous Poison Ivy Stage Control Garden, Daisy is given a technical item play that only she can pull of with a relatively creative-liberty free combination of sports balls and stage control.
Couple the ball-enhancing specials with a mobility aspect (such as a Flower Catch) and sports equipment (Wonder Flower) and Daisy's spin-off moves come together in an unique and fitting way.
Or go even further, and let the ball be slammed around by all of Daisy's moves (which don't have to be all sports equipment, they could also be kicks used in soccer) to bounce them around and extend the range of Daisy's kicks by turning every kick into a projectile-ranged move
Here's a few examples of combining the Superball with Daisy's "canonical" Flower abilities:
-Various Flower-enhanced sports equipment OR throwing the ball after catching it with a certain special OR throwing the ball in a garden caused by another special can cause the ball to:
-Obscure view around the ball with a trail of petals
-Cause a mini-garden to rise where the ball lands
-Dizzy the opponent
-With a creative liberty, give the Lip's Stick-effect to opponents
-With another creative liberty, split the balls into three balls like the torpedo in SML
Remind you, these abilities are all Daisy's "canonical" abilities (or spin-off-ical, anyway, she's shown using these abilities)
You can add one more thing, but it'd require using the Crystal Smash ability in a Flowerish moveset or taking a creative liberty (which isn't forbidden, but now it's a sport to make a set without them):
Walls.
As said earlier, Superballs bounce off walls, so it'd be even more unique to let the balls bounce off walls to create the silly effects seen above while building a trap where one well-aimed shot can damage the opponent a lot or surprise them.
Things that could make good walls, but most of them are creative liberties:
-Crystal Smash
-Flower Trampoline (turn them in eight directions)
-The Easter Island Statue enemy in SML
-Walking Piranha Plant (Occasionally stretches its neck, walks around, sometimes jumps up)
Yeah, they get really "creative"
EDIT:
Not against a Peach semi-clone (as long as Forward Air is a headbutt and she gets Peach's old Melee moves including an explosive Daisy Bomber) but I think she can be unique
I'd actually imagine her to be like Diddy Kong a bit, being rushdown, but also having powerful items to give her options in item throw range.
This would also add to her "technique"-archetype in the sports games, since item play is considered very technical and she can always have high mobility and certain attack animations to convey her high energy personality.
I mean, look at Greninja, he's exactly the character he's supposed to be: Quick, hard to spot, impossible to catch, but not a character you'd run in and start a 60% combo with.
I think Sakurai could definitely make Daisy a high-energy, in-your-face character without her being another Mario/Pika-like character.
And I think the key to that is item play, referencing her sports affinity, the technique class and her relationship to Peach, who has one of the more technical item plays in the game.
She can then use certain sports props to smash the ball around, giving her high energy rapid volleys without being another combo char.
This is even easier to imagine with Peach as a base.
Peach uses her float to get in and out of range to do all kinds of turnips tricks, but this requires floating, which slows her speed.
Micro-spacing is key since the float is precise, but slow.
Daisy would of course ditch the float but would keep the throwing item with low range, meaning micro spacing is still key, this being where her mobility and mobility specials come into play, allowing Daisy to microspace less precise, but faster, such as with a horizontal dive or high-catch jump, making opponents tired just by looking at her jumps, runs and flower glider shenanigans, which would be a faster, more controllable parasol (but since she doesn't have a float her recovery is still as good as Peach's)
She would have to engage in combat though, as her projectiles would be like Turnips, requiring strict spacing (and with their low range, that wouldn't be "stand as far away as possible to hit") or a positional advantage to work
