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The Sargasso Hideout - Wolf O'Donnell Support Thread

What voice do you prefer for Wolf?

  • American (Star Fox: Assault & Smash Bros. Brawl)

    Votes: 92 73.6%
  • British (Star Fox 64 & Star Fox Zero)

    Votes: 33 26.4%

  • Total voters
    125
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Quillion

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I really want Wolf to come back, too. In fact, I really wish Falco got cut in Smash 4 and Wolf got in instead.

People do have a point about Wolf being yet another Fox clone, but I have a different view on the whole issue.

Individually, I don't see any problem with the Star Fox movesets in themselves, but I feel that, as a whole, the Star Fox universe's representation leaves a lot to be desired. I feel that when the Star Fox cast only has "Blaster, Forward Dash, Wind-up Dash, and Reflector" as their movesets, it makes me sad for all the potential variety that can come from the universe. Star Fox Assault (which I only liked a little bit, mind you) introduced a ton of weapons before Brawl came out, yet nothing of it happened when Brawl came around.

I'd honestly be more okay with having Fox, Falco, and Wolf at the same time if there were a character (or perhaps two) who doesn't have the "Blaster, Forward Dash, Wind-up Dash, and Reflector" set.
 

Ridley_Prime

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Lightning Tornado will probably just be his up b (which desperately needed a rework anyway). Also, it'd be awesome if his Final Smash was the Hunter from Zero:



definitely solves the "3 arwings" problem.
Right? Say what you will about Star Fox Zero as a game, but that there was one hell of a memorable Wolf encounter when you had to 1v1 him. I'd definitely take that mech as an alternative to the Wolfen now for a final smash.
 

FunAtParties

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I really want Wolf to come back, too. In fact, I really wish Falco got cut in Smash 4 and Wolf got in instead.

People do have a point about Wolf being yet another Fox clone, but I have a different view on the whole issue.

Individually, I don't see any problem with the Star Fox movesets in themselves, but I feel that, as a whole, the Star Fox universe's representation leaves a lot to be desired. I feel that when the Star Fox cast only has "Blaster, Forward Dash, Wind-up Dash, and Reflector" as their movesets, it makes me sad for all the potential variety that can come from the universe. Star Fox Assault (which I only liked a little bit, mind you) introduced a ton of weapons before Brawl came out, yet nothing of it happened when Brawl came around.

I'd honestly be more okay with having Fox, Falco, and Wolf at the same time if there were a character (or perhaps two) who doesn't have the "Blaster, Forward Dash, Wind-up Dash, and Reflector" set.
Disagree about Falco, but agree on everything else. I really feel that Star Fox characters deserve better. I see how ZSS, a character that already exists in another form in the game already, has had two unique, functional movesets, and it bothers me, because a lot of those ideas could've easily worked on Falco/Wolf. Hell, I'm pretty sure her Smash 4 up b is based off of Wolf's Fire Wolf attack. I know people here enjoy the design, but if I'm being honest I'm still holding out hope that he gets overhauled.
 

AlphaSSB

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I think the Hunter would be pretty damn badass, but I'm not too sure we'll see it playable, sadly. Its size and complexity are what I feel hurts its chances. The Landmaster is a mostly static model, with maybe moving treads. The Hunter would require all-new animation to get it right.

Still, I'd love to see Wolf get something other than a Landmaster. Star Wolf Strafe Run or Air Support make for decent alternatives. The Strafe Run would be Wolf jumping into his Wolfen, marking 3-4 places on the stage, and each member of Star Wolf bombards their area with blaster fire. Air Support would be the rest of Star Wolf hovering around the stage in their Wolfens, targeting players in general, or those who get too close to Wolf, while Wolf himself remains playable.
 

Quillion

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Disagree about Falco, but agree on everything else. I really feel that Star Fox characters deserve better. I see how ZSS, a character that already exists in another form in the game already, has had two unique, functional movesets, and it bothers me, because a lot of those ideas could've easily worked on Falco/Wolf. Hell, I'm pretty sure her Smash 4 up b is based off of Wolf's Fire Wolf attack. I know people here enjoy the design, but if I'm being honest I'm still holding out hope that he gets overhauled.
It's wayyy too late in the game to reestablish either Falco or Wolf, and let's be real, there's no solid group who vocally demands it, unlike say Ganondorf.

The only way to improve Star Fox's representation in Smash is to add characters with more unique movesets.
 

FunAtParties

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It's wayyy too late in the game to reestablish either Falco or Wolf, and let's be real, there's no solid group who vocally demands it, unlike say Ganondorf.

The only way to improve Star Fox's representation in Smash is to add characters with more unique movesets.
I don't think so, Sakurai did some minor tweaks on Bowser and Yoshi despite no demand. It could happen.
 

FunAtParties

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Keyword: minor. Falco got minor tweaks as well.
True but he can continue to get minor tweaks.

The funny thing is, the tweaks Falco got absolutely ruined the core of his character. Pillar combos, that full body dair spike, shutdown lasers, all of it a thing of the past. The changes they made completely disregarded why people enjoyed Falco in the first place.
 

Mellos

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True but he can continue to get minor tweaks.

The funny thing is, the tweaks Falco got absolutely ruined the core of his character. Pillar combos, that full body dair spike, shutdown lasers, all of it a thing of the past. The changes they made completely disregarded why people enjoyed Falco in the first place.
I don't know if I can agree to this.
In terms of competetive play? Yes, probably.
He got the short end of the stick this time around. But he was in the Top 3 of Melee and pretty damn good in BRAWL (atleast Top 5). Far better than Fox (@Brawl). He can't be the top pick in every game since his release, right?

But from a designer stand point? NO
Smash 4 Falco never felt and played MORE different from Fox, than ever before. More moves changed to look and feel different from Fox (not counting specials). It's hard to call Falco a Clone or even Semi Clone these days.
I like to compare Fox and Falco to Mario and Luigi. Yes, on first glance you can see their connection (which is a good thing from a game design perspective, since they share a game and some sort of relationship to each other).
But if you play either one of those characters for more than 10 minutes, you can easly see how they differ. A lot actually.

(*Yet, I will admit however: Falco's numbers need some tuning. The Balance team did a very good job with the rest of the cast and if they had more time, they would (probably) adressed that).

And while Sakurai and his team try to keep classic character combos and traits if possible, gameplay balance and character identity have to come first. Rember, this is a casual AND a competetive game.





Anyway, back to:
Wolf

We are number 3 in the Smash Bros poll of returning veterans!
Link: (https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/85czpd/rsmashbros_character_survey_results/)
1st: Ice Climbers
2nd: Snake
3rd: Wolf

Considering how much work was put to make the Ice Climbers work despite the 3DS, they will probably come back to the new Smash. And since Snake has licensing issues, Wolf will be probably number 2 of returning veterans (assuing Konami doesn't do a 180) - I would love to have both back tho.

Back then, when we got the results of the Smash 4 Ballot, Sakurai said that veterans were REALLY high on the list.
Now, I personally assume he "had" to pick some fancy or "impossible" character like a 3rd party Bayonett and Cloud, over fan favorite, but lesser known ones (returning veterans, Geno or K Rool and so on).
Which made FAR more revenue and/or buzz for Smash and expended the horizon, what was possible to be included as a character.
(And PLEASE don't forget the advertisment part of Smash games: Bayonett pratically found a new home on Nintendo and the Switch. We are getting a port of 1 and 2 for the Ninetndo console and Bayo 3 is announced.
And the Square Enix has expressed great interest in bringing FF in some way to Nintendo, Ryu and the recent amount of Street Fighter releases)

I think the K Rool, Geno and the Inkling costume we got for the Miis, serve as a placholder and even as a little hint: "We know you want them, we've heared you. And you will get them soon, but we just can't right now."
Maybe they had to keep some for a new Smash game: Smash 5 development probably started around 2016 (strongly implied by Sakurai and working on his "secret" project). Only a small poriton of the team did DLC characters and updates, which might explain why a single character took so long.
And it is pretty safe to assume that the ballot, while officially aimed at Smash 4 DLC, was there as well to gather information for Smash 5.
I would go as far and claim: The team split up character suggestions from the ballot: "What makes more sense as DLC for the current game and which ones do we safe up for the completely new game?"

Example: Mewtwo & Roy & Lucas were there as fan favorites and returning veterans; Ryu & Cloud & Bayo however filled a different role: New, "mature" and "outside of the horizo" + promotional reasons.
This makes me believe, that Wolf and Ice Climbers - since they fall under the same "category" as Mewtwo, Lucas and Roy - will come back as the veterans for Smash 5. Mewtwo and Roy both skipped a game and would have been next in line, if the team had more time.

Now, of course not every costume has to mean something. But those who came out late in Smash 4 cycle and REALLY close to the ballot, I see as a potential placeholder (and hint).
Examples:
- Toad (maybe just as Captain Toad)
- Tails and/or Knuckels (an addition sonic rep is somewhat realistic)
- Isabelle and/or K.K. Slider (second rep for Animal Crossing)

*Don't forget:
The Smash team often hinted at characters in the past (or atleast introduced in another way), before they became fully playable.
For example:
-) Little Mac was an assist trophy in BRAWL, before he got into Smash 4. (I assume they planned the same for Isac from golden sun, but probably gave up at some point.)
-) Meta Knight was teased with a Mii costume mask, before they officially announced him in Smash 4 (even if this wasn't a surprise after BRAWL)
There are many more examples, but I am to lazy to look up and this is getting way to long.

*Additionally: For anyone who followed the character balance patches, I would like to remind you:
Rosalina and two other really strong characters, which had a vocal demand for nerfs, recieved one patch a weight decrease by 1. A nerf, yes, but a minimal one.
This was again a placeholder and a note, saying: "We know they are a problem and we will get to them soon."

And they got nerfed really well, a patch (or 2) later.


TL;DR: Wolf chances are looking pretty well.
I think. Probably. I don't know, my uncle doesn't work for Nintendo or Sakurai.
 
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Morbi

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True but he can continue to get minor tweaks.

The funny thing is, the tweaks Falco got absolutely ruined the core of his character. Pillar combos, that full body dair spike, shutdown lasers, all of it a thing of the past. The changes they made completely disregarded why people enjoyed Falco in the first place.
Honestly, that is one of the main reasons I am excited for Smash Switch. Just to hope and pray that he is not butchered this time around. As for Wolf, I mostly just want a redesign, aesthetically. But if Falco remains the same, I am probably converting to Wolf.
 

Shyy_Guy595

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Praying for Wolf. Behind Ice Climbers, he's the most requested and wanted veteran that's actually likely
 

Morbi

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Praying for Wolf. Behind Ice Climbers, he's the most requested and wanted veteran that's actually likely
It is pretty obvious to Wolf fans, the danger of taking him for granted; however, with such a blatant lack of other characters to compete with veterans, I am extremely positive that Wolf and Ice Climbers are returning. The only concern I have was JUST how bad Star Fox Zero did. But the way they treat him in that game, I believe it should be smooth sailing.
 

Mellos

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It is pretty obvious to Wolf fans, the danger of taking him for granted; however, with such a blatant lack of other characters to compete with veterans, I am extremely positive that Wolf and Ice Climbers are returning. The only concern I have was JUST how bad Star Fox Zero did. But the way they treat him in that game, I believe it should be smooth sailing.
I wouldn't worry to much.
Sakurai has expressed interest in the Star Fox series a long time ago, even wanted to direct or make a game.
And eve after the the moderate Fail of SF Zero, Miamoto said they are far from done with the series. People probably forgot about Zero so far (after all, it was just the really small Wii U playerbase) and a big audience remembers the really good Star Fox 2 on the SNES Mini.

The switch seems to be the console generation to redefine a lot of Nintendo IPs and get them up to todays standard: Zelda and Mario just crushed every expectation. Metroid is on it's way. but "Samus Returns" alone was an amazing game.
I think Nintendo knows very well, how pivotal the next Star Fox Game on the Switch is and they will make it right this time.
 

Cin726

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As for Wolf, I mostly just want a redesign, aesthetically.
Same here. Wolf was my main in SSBB, but I can't say I was a fan of the design. Too busy for my liking. To this day, I'd still love to see a full render of the Melee design, as I think that was just a perfect look (from what we could see). I'm still sore over him not being playable in the game.

Should Wolf show up in Switch (fingers crossed), I'd like them to skew closer to his Star Fox 2/Project M design, or maybe even his Star Fox Zero look.
 

Wyoming

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Big Bad Wolf could have a new Final Smash too. Star Wolf use some sort of mecha-dinosaur Wolfen in a battle. Frees up the Arwing for Falco if they finally give it to him.

Not much else I would change. Move set is fine although maybe making him more devastating when he hits would make him stand out more. He has claws, make his moves feel stabby you know.

Otherwise a re-defined Wolf with the new engine would be fine. He was a fun character to use and get better with in Brawl.
 
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AlphaSSB

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Mellos

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Well, looks like we may be seeing some more Smash info prior to E3.
If this is anything like the invetational for Smash Wii U, we will end up a solo, smash focused direct some time prior. This means a huge load of smash related infos very, VERY soon.

Hype levels are through the roof!



Anyway, I figured I use my time "wisely" and made some Smash 5 character predictions (as is tradition), while being semi realistic:
(Here is the result of way to much time spend researching Smash history & patterns)


 
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Foxy Alopex

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Well, looks like we may be seeing some more Smash info prior to E3.
Can't wait to see what kind of info they're going to reveal.
 

Chase_Doggie

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If Wolf comes back, his reveal trailer (assuming he gets one) should start with Fox and Falco fighting a bunch of random characters on Lylat Cruise, with Wolf saying "Can't let you do that, Star Fox."
 

CBO0tz

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If Wolf comes back, his reveal trailer (assuming he gets one) should start with Fox and Falco fighting a bunch of random characters on Lylat Cruise, with Wolf saying "Can't let you do that, Star Fox."
Throw in Slippy beating up characters alongside them, and I'm sold.
 

Morbi

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If Wolf comes back, his reveal trailer (assuming he gets one) should start with Fox and Falco fighting a bunch of random characters on Lylat Cruise, with Wolf saying "Can't let you do that, Star Fox."
I do not care about the setting or circumstances, he has to use the line. Even if Fox is not on-screen.
 

FunAtParties

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I do not care about the setting or circumstances, he has to use the line. Even if Fox is not on-screen.
"I can't let you do that, Fox"
"...it's Larry"
 
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CrusherMania1592

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"What's the matter, scared?"


Without a doubt my favorite quote from Wolf in Brawl. Add me to the supporters list!
 

Hokori

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Feel free to add me to the supporter list. Outside of Ganondorf (obviously), Wolf is my guy. Hurt my soul to not see him around in Smash 4.
 

Morbi

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Feel free to add me to the supporter list. Outside of Ganondorf (obviously), Wolf is my guy. Hurt my soul to not see him around in Smash 4.
There is a supporters list? This is definitely one of those times where it might be more effective just to have a detractors list.
 

Hokori

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There is a supporters list? This is definitely one of those times where it might be more effective just to have a detractors list.
I actually don't know. Even though he was in Brawl, he got the axe in Smash 4, so I assumed there might've been some kind of list to get him back in Smash 5.

But I agree, a detractors list would be better...though I believe anyone that says "No" to Wolf getting back in should just get banned from the forums =P
 

AlphaSSB

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I posted this in another thread, but might as well share it here as well.
Looks like Nintendo didn't forget that Star Fox turned 25. Now if only we can get some successful games before it turns 30.

Don't think this would hold much impact in regards to Smash, but who knows?
 

MrReyes96

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Absolutely no reason he should’ve gotten cut in the first place, I can’t believe he wasn’t even DLC.

I’m a Falco main and even I know he’s more similar to Fox than Wolf.
 

praline

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It’d be cool if they gave him a special that involved the rest of Star Wolf ala Ginyu in FighterZ.
 

VexTheHex

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I personally wonder why Wolf was cut and his removal seeming to be the most ignored is cause of the initial backlash of poor Wolf being the last character confirmed for Smash 3. I remember that era and while Wolf had a solid fan base... it's never a good thing to be the last character revealed if your not a big name. I recall the boards and forums being flooded in salt to the extreme.

- the Krystal fanatics attacked Wolf relentless. Not only did Wolf get picked over her, but she now had no chance for this game while having a less likely chance of showing up down the road unless Starfox warranted a 4th rep.
- the anti-clone crowds wanted Wolf's head and landmaster. Even now, people call Wolf a clone when he just suffers from having his flashiest moves cloned off of Fox.
- And lastly, anyone wanting another character in the game now was filled with disappointment and started complaining.

And from some of the interviews I have read with Sakurai, he honestly seems easily spited. He compared the people not liking clones to children for example. I honestly wonder if the backlash has made Sakurai jaded in regards to Wolf. He added a pretty well done character that was barely a clone at the end of Brawl's development, but the character got major hate from the fans on reveal.

I loved Wolf and root for him to come back, but I do question why there was almost nothing on his removal and he got skipped over for characters like Roy and Lucas who are from deader series while being closer to clones than Wolf.

That said, i'd bow down and kiss Wolf's boots and welcome him back to smash. Never liked playing Fox or Falco (Don't dislike them, just didn't enjoy playing them) and barely played any Starfox when little. But that was a character that I really loved and enjoyed playing in Brawl. Even if he gets changed, I'd just like to have him back.
 
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AlphaSSB

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It’d be cool if they gave him a special that involved the rest of Star Wolf ala Ginyu in FighterZ.
There's been a lot of good ideas for a new Final Smash for Wolf, such as the Hunter from Star Fox Zero, but I'm hoping for a Star Wolf strafe run or sort of air-support. Call it Star Wolf Assault, ha

I personally wonder why Wolf was cut and his removal seeming to be the most ignored is cause of the initial backlash of poor Wolf being the last character confirmed for Smash 3. I remember that era and while Wolf had a solid fan base... it's never a good thing to be the last character revealed if your not a big name. I recall the boards and forums being flooded in salt to the extreme.

- the Krystal fanatics attacked Wolf relentless. Not only did Wolf get picked over her, but she now had no chance for this game while having a less likely chance of showing up down the road unless Starfox warranted a 4th rep.
- the anti-clone crowds wanted Wolf's head and landmaster. Even now, people call Wolf a clone when he just suffers from having his flashiest moves cloned off of Fox.
- And lastly, anyone wanting another character in the game now was filled with disappointment and started complaining.

And from some of the interviews I have read with Sakurai, he honestly seems easily spited. He compared the people not liking clones to children for example. I honestly wonder if the backlash has made Sakurai jaded in regards to Wolf. He added a pretty well done character that was barely a clone at the end of Brawl's development, but the character got major hate from the fans on reveal.

I loved Wolf and root for him to come back, but I do question why there was almost nothing on his removal and he got skipped over for characters like Roy and Lucas who are from deader series while being closer to clones than Wolf.

That said, i'd bow down and kiss Wolf's boots and welcome him back to smash. Never liked playing Fox or Falco (Don't dislike them, just didn't enjoy playing them) and barely played any Starfox when little. But that was a character that I really loved and enjoyed playing in Brawl. Even if he gets changed, I'd just like to have him back.
I think the main reason why Wolf got so much hate in the beginning is because all people saw of him was his Landmaster and Special moves. Can't blame them for their first impressions being "Oh great, a clone" - but most people realized that he's actually quite different from Fox when they actually began playing him. Wolf was passed up on DLC in favor of Lucas because, at least in Japan, Lucas had a much larger fanbase. Although based off my knowledge, Wolf's fanbase other there is pretty big, too. I can't blame Sakurai with going with Lucas over Wolf.

Have this sinking feeling Wolf will be left out again.
I think it's possible that Wolf will make in, either through base roster or DLC, because he has a lot going for him. Large support base, most recent game in series was in 2016, could be added in for promotion in case Star Fox Zero gets ported, how he did in the ballot, most recent game was made by Platinum who surely wouldn't mind having more of their assets used, etc. That said, hope for the best, prepare for the worst. Wolf may have a lot going for him, but he also had a lot going for him last time and look what happened.
 

Nauzgo

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but I do question why there was almost nothing on his removal and he got skipped over for characters like Roy and Lucas who are from deader series while being closer to clones than Wolf.
Simply because Roy was the most popular Melee vet left after the inclusion of fan favorite Mewtwo, and Lucas being the Brawl vet due to being the most popular one from that game who was left out.

I love Wolf, no question. But I really wonder why so many people were surprised that he was cut. Star Fox became one of the less important franchises of Nintendo, with no good sales and mixed reviews, if not worse (Zero, Command, even Assault). Wolf already was lowest priority in Brawl and probably just got in over the 5 Melee vets because he was a newcomer and most likely easier to implement than Tetra or the rest of the f7.
For Sm4sh, there were obviously so much more interesting newcomers that they got in over low priority veterans. And I think it was pretty reasonable to include characters such as Shulk, Villager, Greninja, Palutena, or Robin over a third rep veteran from a niche franchise.

Again, I like the character. But that's something I've already wanted to say several times when talking about Wolf. Don't overestimate his and Star Fox' status. Pretty sure he will be low priority again this time but I think he'll make it back to the vanilla roster. Because this time, the competition is not as hard as it was pre-Sm4sh. And the ballot will also have a positive effect on that issue.
 

Chase_Doggie

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I really hope Wolf get's a updated moveset. Not to say that his old moveset was bad by any means, but it could use some touch-ups. Like, how about that "Lightning Tornado" maneuver he does in Zero? That would work pretty well as his Up B. Or maybe make his gun one of the weapons from Assault? Or why not give him a Final Smash that's something he actually does in his games, like using a Wolfen, or calling out Leon, Panther, Pigma, and Andrew? Other than that, he's great.
 

AlphaSSB

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I really hope Wolf get's a updated moveset. Not to say that his old moveset was bad by any means, but it could use some touch-ups. Like, how about that "Lightning Tornado" maneuver he does in Zero? That would work pretty well as his Up B. Or maybe make his gun one of the weapons from Assault? Or why not give him a Final Smash that's something he actually does in his games, like using a Wolfen, or calling out Leon, Panther, Pigma, and Andrew? Other than that, he's great.
Given the chance that most of Smash 4's resources are going to be ported, I would assume that means more time for development of new characters and features.

Should Wolf make it in not too late into development, I'm sure that Sakurai will touch up on him a good bit. I'm hoping for a new Final Smash at the least.
 

Ridley_Prime

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Would like if Wolf had better recovery with his up special. Otherwise I'm cool with him since I hardly ever have smash balls turned on in the long run, enough for his Landmaster to be that much a turnoff for me...
 
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