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the salamence debate

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Wave⁂

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"Better" is a bit opinionated since each individual Pokemon can perform its job better depending on the type of team it's used on, as well as your opponents team.
Well, you can't change your opponent's team, so that's not a factor. And even though, say, a wallbreaker's success is reliant on its teammates, there are cases where either (a) the wallbreaker is so ****ty that no matter how good the teammates are, the team sucks, or (b) where no possible teammates mesh well with the wallbreaker.

Lets compare its potential as a setup sweeper with Salamence. Mence is without a doubt the better sweeper, but Nite has more bulk (which means more opportunities for DDs), more raw attack power, and a priority move that prevents it from being slapped by Scarfed counters like Starmie or Infernape.
Dragon Dance Dragonite doesn't carry ExtremeSpeed. In addition, bulky versions of ANY sweeper aren't necessarily better. Look at bulky DDMence. Who the **** uses bulky Mence. Two, maybe three people?

It all depends on the situation, but I still say DDNite is still a viable setup sweeper.
viable != good

Torterra is viable in OU. Don't make it good.
 

Zankoku

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Look at bulky DDMence. Who the **** uses bulky Mence. Two, maybe three people?
Code:
| Gyarados   | HP EV        | None             |    44.2 |
| Gyarados   | HP EV        | High (150-200)   |    33.3 |
| Gyarados   | HP EV        | Other (5)        | <   7.0 |
Yeah, two, maybe three people. Out of every seven.
 

Terywj [태리]

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Code:
| Gyarados   | HP EV        | None             |    44.2 |
| Gyarados   | HP EV        | High (150-200)   |    33.3 |
| Gyarados   | HP EV        | Other (5)        | <   7.0 |
Yeah, two, maybe three people. Out of every seven.
Wrong stats / Pokemon?

Dragonite isn't as threatening enough of a Pokemon to be considered banning, I'd assume.
 

The Real Gamer

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Well, you can't change your opponent's team, so that's not a factor. And even though, say, a wallbreaker's success is reliant on its teammates, there are cases where either (a) the wallbreaker is so ****ty that no matter how good the teammates are, the team sucks, or (b) where no possible teammates mesh well with the wallbreaker.

I never said that the Pokemon had to be reliant on its teammates to be more successful than the other. If you're running a bulky offensive team and you are in need of a dragon that can take multiple resisted hits and maybe even sweep, then DDNite is going to be a better option over Salamence because of its superior defenses. So DDNite is a "better" option for this type of team than DDMence amiright?

Dragon Dance Dragonite doesn't carry ExtremeSpeed. In addition, bulky versions of ANY sweeper aren't necessarily better. Look at bulky DDMence. Who the **** uses bulky Mence. Two, maybe three people?

I use ES on my DDNite, and a lot of times, it works. Get @ me. And I don't look at how much a Pokemon is used. My Heatproof Trick Room Bronzong is one of the best members on my current team, and I guarantee hardly anyone uses it at all.

viable != good

Torterra is viable in OU. Don't make it good.

Kaydude.
Comments in bold.
 

UltiMario

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Mence has superior defenses on the switch-in, BTW.

You know, when setting up.

So that's when it sorta actually matters.
 

Riddle

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I don't know where you get your information, but theres a decent chance that mence WILL be banned.

Can you please capitalize words and use punctuation?
 

Wave⁂

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Latias is a specially attacking beast that relies on Choice items and a high speed stat to abuse Draco Meteors and Dragon Pulses, while having the defenses to pull off Wish support and phazing.

Salamence is a beast that specializes in wallbreaking with mixed sets and sweeping with Dragon Dance.

How the **** can you say one is better than the other.
 

Zankoku

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Actually, with Salamence gone, Heatran is more likely to be next than Scizor.
 

CRASHiC

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Yeah, when you remove Salemence there are still many power houses, but you can't compare them to Salemence at all. They dont' compare. Stall gets the big boost with Sal gone, no individual pokemon.
 

Zankoku

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I doubt it, because unlike Salamence, Blissey laughs at Heatran... Loudly.
Is that before or after it Explodes?

The point of my post was that Heatran rose to #1 in usage on the Suspect ladder, while Scizor dropped down to #7 because he had to get through a metagame saturated with Heatran, Rotom, Gyarados, and Infernape.
 

Wave⁂

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There's no way in heck this could happen. It's stopped by too many Pokemon.
Yeah, it's not like there's a priority Ice-type move out there to OHKO Salamence.

Too bad there's no specially bulky Dark-type Pokémon with a huge Attack stat to use some kind of trapping move on Latias with a Choice Scarf.
 

TLMSheikant

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Yeah, it's not like there's a priority Ice-type move out there to OHKO Salamence.

Too bad there's no specially bulky Dark-type Pokémon with a huge Attack stat to use some kind of trapping move on Latias with a Choice Scarf.
TTar. Also, blissey does not laugh at Heatran. Unless she likes eating explosions.
 

Wave⁂

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Blissey can bait on Explosion and then switch to Rotom-A. But since Heatran's Fire Blast kind of ***** Rotom-A, it's fairly risky.
 

Wave⁂

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I love how yummynbeef has yet to debate anything.

Anyways, I don't see Heatran going Uber. Flygon usage will go up after Mence goes.


| 7 | Flygon | 6987 | 21.92 |
 

yummynbeefy

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uncounterable is by no means grounds for a ban look at metaknight in brawl he has no legit counters on any stage except for FD for falco and diddy but did he get banned? nope not by a longshot (this is coming from someone who is pro MK-ban)

alot of pokes have few or no counters

mence may be the best pokemon in OU but it really isnt by that much
yeah i love that part about me too :p
 

Wave⁂

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1. No one said he's being banned for being uncounterable. Besides, Cress is a counter. And, Metaknight is apples and oranges.

2. Your statements are subjective and not backed up by evidence.

What you are doing is stating your opinion, not debating.
 
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