The ROB Matchup Thread

[Teh Future]

-dont shield when you dont have too

-powershield first hit of nado

you should never get hit by nado when mk doesn't already have an advantage in positioning. If he hits you then its your own fault.

 

[Megavitamins]

MK isn't going to tornado from far, hes gonna do it when you have no options...

 

[Teh Future]

ummm lol nothing you post makes any sense but ok.

 

[Megavitamins]

You think MK ROB is a close match up, avoid every arguement i make with "lul cheese ***** ur rusty ROB, you must be bad" and you're calling me dumb?

Go kill yourself.

 

[Teh Future]

you haven't made any argument that makes any amount of sense and get angry at all of my obivous trolling attempts.

lol u fail at internets sir

 

[Sudai]

I don't care if you guys keep that flame war going, but don't do it on the forums please.

 

[TheMike]

What about giving me some ratios?

 

[BoTastic!]

I'll go with 65:35 MK.

 

[Nova9000]

I agree with Bo. BF and PS1 are your best bets IMO. CPs I choose Frigate and possibly Halberd (I hate Castle Siege). Strike Delphino, RC, and Brinstar.

35-65 seems about right. We can't really do anything other than camp and try to predict what happens. It almost seems inevitable that you get nadoed or uaired to death. But like Stingers said, Bair is your best friend due to its spacing. There really isn't too much to be said about this MU IMO; we've covered most of what you can and cannot do.

 

[Spin]

sadly it's mostly been what we can't do. but yeah. it's 65-35MK, maybe even 70/30 MK, just becaus MK has options 100% of the time against R.O.B. making him EXTREMELY hard to predict.

 

[Darth Waffles]

It'd be nice to play... people... again. I don't want to say anything incredibly outdated. Since my January injury, I've played a grand total of... 1 Metaknight

...On wifi.

See why I haven't been contributing to this?

Anyway, I'll throw in something I noticed and made a conscience effort to change, which seemed to work against the 1 wifi metaknight. Make it into whatever you want, it's just something that I saw.

Until this year, I played the extreme spacing game with MK. I think somebody mentioned a page or so ago how backair is your best friend. Well, for me, it was. I was a big fan of cautiously approaching with backairs, and occasionally turning around to hit an outstretched f-tilt after a Bair. The point is, I racked up damage from afar, and I kept ROB facing away from MK whenever I was close so I could space with Bairs. And it worked, up to a certain point.

Fast forward through the end of last year and, as an example, all of a sudden Chibo becomes really consistent with pulling off respectable wins against MK. I see his ROB beat MKs at tournaments who beat me at tournaments, and he starts becoming pretty confident at the matchup. So I decide to watch some of his videos. Not for entertainment or just to skip to the end to see the kills/last stock, mind you, but I mean watching how he racks up damage against a character who most of you believe has options 100% of the time. I noticed a couple of things by doing this: even up close, his ROB is usually facing MK. I searched a little bit more and noticed that Holy faced the same way. Whether you call it mindgames on their part or consistently bad spacing on their opponents' parts, they're able to hit with moves like forward air, which I was always afraid of, for fear of getting shuttle looped or out-prioritized/out-sped. I was always pretty consistent with hitting with Nair, or short hop fast falling the Nair and following its auto-cancel with a 3-frame dtilt, which worked pretty well, but then I'd have a harder time killing, since Nair became an up-close damage racker AND (too stale) KO move. I didn't know how they possibly expected to hit with fair but they did, and it worked for them. This led me to realization #2: ROB has more than one kill move, even if they're never supposed to work.

I have to explain that one a bit. Correct me if I'm wrong, but when perfectly spaced, glide attack JUST beats forward smash, even angled up. At the very least, it can clash and cancel out the fsmash, which is a lot easier to do on MK's end. This made me afraid of MK, and as a result, I wouldn't use Fsmash. On the ground, Fsmash has a lot of lag, and mathematically, ROB can be punished from certain ranges if he whiffs an Fsmash. Framewise, it's there. Because it's possible, I think that I assumed that I shouldn't try to use it in these situations because it was just like picking paper every time against the threat of scissors. If I knew that I could get punished because the data was there, I wouldn't do it.

But those two kept managing to land kills with fsmash against MKs and I couldn't understand why. They were able to get that mindgame-y grab that I wouldn't dare try for because I tried it earlier and took a lot of damage for it. Heck, I've even seen them go for downairs on MKs in cases where I wouldn't have ever gone for it. Even an upsmash was awkward for me to start implementing because it left me open from the sides. I tried it once last june against Ksizzle on Frigate almost a year ago (the tournament that insipred "it's hopeless"), last stock, KO percents for upsmash, and I missed and then lost the match less than 5 seconds later. Until recently, I never felt comfortable using moves that I knew could be punished.

But just because they CAN be punished and just because they CAN be perfectly outspaced doesn't mean they will be. Does this go against everything you've ever assumed about matchups- that you should assume that both characters are being played at the highest level of competition? Sure. Throw this entire argument out if you want, but people don't play at the highest level (of theory) all the time. There was a discussion a long time ago about what would happen if every character were played perfectly, and you know what the general consensus was of who the best character would be? Not MK, and not even Snake. It was Pit. This tells me that it's worth throwing out that fsmash once in awhile, because people aren't perfect. If they were, we'd all be playing Pit. In other words, it's worth showing that you're not afraid of an uphill matchup and making threats of your own instead of relying on perfect spacing and only using the 2 or 3 moves that you feel safe using. Does MK have options 100% of the time? Probably not, though it might be a pretty high percentage. That doesn't mean that the forward air is ALWAYS going to be beaten out or that a missed smash will lead to you getting KO'd. I don't mean to say that you should throw out bad moves or moves that you have been getting punished for in good situations, but you should definitely take a risk once in awhile just to mix it up. It's a lot easier for MK to catch on to ROB if the ROB is doing the same, albeit safe, option. Until people can consistently catch you on a pattern, there's nothing wrong with giving yourself another option.

So that went a lot longer than I expected. Why does SWF automatically log me out after awhile?

 

[Megavitamins]

I agree with Bo. BF and PS1 are your best bets IMO. CPs I choose Frigate and possibly Halberd (I hate Castle Siege). Strike Delphino, RC, and Brinstar.

35-65 seems about right. We can't really do anything other than camp and try to predict what happens. It almost seems inevitable that you get nadoed or uaired to death. But like Stingers said, Bair is your best friend due to its spacing. There really isn't too much to be said about this MU IMO; we've covered most of what you can and cannot do.

MK is really good on bf... Once you're above a platform don't expect to get down

 

[Sudai]

Incorrect. It's easier to reach ground on BF than, say, FD. MK landing on platforms = landing lag = more opportunity to get down. On any stage MK can just float below you with his jumps and force you to act. On BF you have more leeway.

 

[Trillest]

I personally find it easier to control bf then any other neutral against mk. The platforms give you kill opportunities and also provide "shelter"

 

[ccst]

Battlefield is a pretty good stage, I mean, even your stale Nair's can kill, in contrast to FD for example. And MK can't juggle you so easy either. But you can get killed early, but so do MK.

The matchup is between 70-30/65-35 according to me. It's more 65-35, but it also depends on stage.

 

[Nova9000]

MK is really good on bf... Once you're above a platform don't expect to get down

To add on what Sudai said, I'd rather take MK on BF than FD or SV. you're going to get juggled regardless, but platforms offer some relief. PS1 is still better IMO, but if they strike it then this is probably your next best bet.

Oh and TheMike, I think we have a general consensus of 35-65 MK...

 

[6Mizu]

Alright so I'm free today, so I'm gonna help with this MU. (At least what I think about it)
Here we go.


ROB V. MK:

ROB V. MK is one of the two hardest MUs for ROB. From the start you want your Gyro out, so as soon as you have an opportunity throw it out and retrieve it. DO NOT APPROACH AT ALL in this MU, trying to make MK approach is your best bet. If you don't believe me your stupid and you haven't read this:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=259372
This means shoot lasers, gyro, and space your tilts to rack up damage when the match begins. This'll be the easy the easy part...the hard part will be... well it'll 2 things:
1. Making MK approach even you've got the percent lead. Some MKs will not approach even if you've got the upper hand. If this happens do not give in. Keep shooting Laser and Gyros until he come to you. Between your Lasers and Gyros MK will try to...so some of the following:
* Nado- He'll use Mach Tornado in hopes he can catch you off-guard or just eat through your camping. In this case you've got some options.
-F-smash to hit him out of Nado.
-Laser right through it.
-Nair, if you have a chance to. (Which you most likely will not)
-Bair, if you have a chance to. (Which you most likely will not)
-Or you can just, tilt your shield up and have it get eaten.
* Appraoch from above-MK will try to approach from above with his combination of multiple jumps and gay good aerials. If the MK gets to this point it can be big trouble. Mk will be using mostly Dair to try to get through our camp. Some options here are:
-Tilt shield up and just wait. (which is the worse option)
-Tilt shield up and U-tilt when you see an opening. No you didn't read wrong I said U-tilt. It'll hit MK if he's Dair spacing with Short Hops instead of Full Hops, and it'll also give you some extra time between each Dair. Look at it's range:

Beginning hit

Second hit. ROB jumps up!
CREDIT TO: rPSI for these images
-Risk jumping in the Air and doing an aerial.
-If you have a Gyro GT forward (toward the center of the stage) and Throw the Gyro up. To get you outta situation and have a Gyro in the air for MK to worry about.

2. Beating off his approaches. If you do force him to approach it'll be difficult beat his approaches. Such as Nado and Aerials.
Camping will be the CORE of this MU.
What every you do, do not Roll during either 1 or 2 this will end putting you in the air and/or forcing you to the edge.

Now for being in the Air against MK. Being in the Air and offstage are the last 2 situations you want be in against MK. Being in the air will cost you from about 0% all the way to about 80% (against a good MK).
Sound bad doesn't it? This is exactly why you camp and (try) to control the stage.
Sadly, due to ROB's blindspot, there's very little you can do.
1. Keep trying to aerials and hope to break through and land. (which will almost never work)
2. IF you have your Gyro Z-drop and follow it down or Throw it down. (There's a possibility this'll work, but it's probably just get beaten by Nair or Nado or something)
3. The BEST option is WAVEBOUNCE. If your put in the air you want to Wavebounce Gyro-Cancel.
BTW,DON'T AIRDODGE AGAINST MK. If don't know why try it and you'll understand why.

Offstage against MK. This be just as tough as being in the air. If you are knocked of stage it can be a stock or just a S*** load of damage. Once ROB's offstage he's offstage he's very predictable so the options I'm about to tell are pointless.
1. Use Gyro and Laser to keep MK at "bay" long enough for you to get back on stage/to the edge.
2. Use a mixture of Fair and Nair to hit MK if he's already reached you....to help you get back to edge/stage.
3. Do the 2 above and if they don't work Use UP-B to go Understage to the other side.

Since we were just talking about being of stage next is being at the edge. First of all, ROB has NO edge options. Well he does but they're predictable. IF your at the edge here's what you can do: (all of your option at the edge are predictable and punishable, but here they are)
1. First, you have what all other characters have: Edge attack, Roll, Jump, and just come up from the edge.
2. Jump off edge and shoot Gyro's and Lasers in hopes to move MK away from the edge/ distract him.
3. Drop off ledge>jump>do rising Nair
4. U-air (worse edge option)
5. Fair, and hope it'll get you back on stage instead of get shield grabbed/punished.

Now last but not least Close Quarter Combat with MK. If this happens it can be good or bad, depending solely on how you handle it. ROB is NOT that bad at CQC. If get close this is what you can do.
1. If you have a Gyro GT outta that situation
2. Use ROB's good Jab, F-tilt, and D-tilt...to help handle the situation. If you don't how to play close quarters with ROB you SUCK!
This is what you do:
-Jab>either D-tilt or F-tilt>follow/read D.I.
-Jab>read your opponent
-D-Tilt multiple times
With good CQC you'll be able to handle MK a lot better.
This may sound bad, but believe me it's much better than just Jab>D-tilt>grab crap.



Now for stages. All neutrals are pretty much good.
FD- Good for camping and (trying) to make MK appraoch. Horrible for being in the Air.
BF- Okay for camping. A lot better for not getting juggled. (Just don't jump on the platforms)
SV- IMO the best neutral to take MK to. It's a mixture of FD and BF. (that's all I need to say)
Lylat- Pretty good excpet when you get off stage and trying to retrieve your Gyro.
and the rest are pretty much the same.

CPs/Bann:
CP: I don't think it really matters.
Ban: Most definitely ban either Brinstar, RC, Delfino.

The MU ratio is 65:35; MK's favor.

Soooooo, I said I'd help and I did.

 

[stingers]

i actually don't like trying to wavebounce to throw off MKs. I feel like they always read it (they've got that snake practice son) and I just get shuttle looped, but I have terrible DI because of my wavebounce...

 

[ccst]

Thanks for the tips. ([^^]

 

[6Mizu]

Alright so I'm free today, so I'm gonna help with this MU. (At least what I think about it)
Here we go.


ROB V. MK:

ROB V. MK is one of the two hardest MUs for ROB. From the start you want your Gyro out, so as soon as you have an opportunity throw it out and retrieve it. DO NOT APPROACH AT ALL in this MU, trying to make MK approach is your best bet. If you don't believe me your stupid and you haven't read this:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=259372
This means shoot lasers, gyro, and space your tilts to rack up damage when the match begins. This'll be the easy the easy part...the hard part will be... well it'll 2 things:
1. Making MK approach even you've got the percent lead. Some MKs will not approach even if you've got the upper hand. If this happens do not give in. Keep shooting Laser and Gyros until he come to you. Between your Lasers and Gyros MK will try to...so some of the following:
* Nado- He'll use Mach Tornado in hopes he can catch you off-guard or just eat through your camping. In this case you've got some options.
-F-smash to hit him out of Nado.
-Laser right through it.
-Nair, if you have a chance to. (Which you most likely will not)
-Bair, if you have a chance to. (Which you most likely will not)
-Or you can just, tilt your shield up and have it get eaten.
* Appraoch from above-MK will try to approach from above with his combination of multiple jumps and gay good aerials. If the MK gets to this point it can be big trouble. Mk will be using mostly Dair to try to get through our camp. Some options here are:
-Tilt shield up and just wait. (which is the worse option)
-Tilt shield up and U-tilt when you see an opening. No you didn't read wrong I said U-tilt. It'll hit MK if he's Dair spacing with Short Hops instead of Full Hops, and it'll also give you some extra time between each Dair. Look at it's range:

Beginning hit

Second hit. ROB jumps up!
CREDIT TO: rPSI for these images
-Risk jumping in the Air and doing an aerial.
-If you have a Gyro GT forward (toward the center of the stage) and Throw the Gyro up. To get you outta situation and have a Gyro in the air for MK to worry about.

2. Beating off his approaches. If you do force him to approach it'll be difficult beat his approaches. Such as Nado and Aerials.
Camping will be the CORE of this MU.
What every you do, do not Roll during either 1 or 2 this will end putting you in the air and/or forcing you to the edge.

Now for being in the Air against MK. Being in the Air and offstage are the last 2 situations you want be in against MK. Being in the air will cost you from about 0% all the way to about 80% (against a good MK).
Sound bad doesn't it? This is exactly why you camp and (try) to control the stage.
Sadly, due to ROB's blindspot, there's very little you can do.
1. Keep trying to aerials and hope to break through and land. (which will almost never work)
2. IF you have your Gyro Z-drop and follow it down or Throw it down. (There's a possibility this'll work, but it's probably just get beaten by Nair or Nado or something)
3. The BEST option is WAVEBOUNCE. If your put in the air you want to Wavebounce Gyro-Cancel.
BTW,DON'T AIRDODGE AGAINST MK. If don't know why try it and you'll understand why.

Offstage against MK. This be just as tough as being in the air. If you are knocked of stage it can be a stock or just a S*** load of damage. Once ROB's offstage he's offstage he's very predictable so the options I'm about to tell are pointless.
1. Use Gyro and Laser to keep MK at "bay" long enough for you to get back on stage/to the edge.
2. Use a mixture of Fair and Nair to hit MK if he's already reached you....to help you get back to edge/stage.
3. Do the 2 above and if they don't work Use UP-B to go Understage to the other side.

Since we were just talking about being of stage next is being at the edge. First of all, ROB has NO edge options. Well he does but they're predictable. IF your at the edge here's what you can do: (all of your option at the edge are predictable and punishable, but here they are)
1. First, you have what all other characters have: Edge attack, Roll, Jump, and just come up from the edge.
2. Jump off edge and shoot Gyro's and Lasers in hopes to move MK away from the edge/ distract him.
3. Drop off ledge>jump>do rising Nair
4. U-air (worse edge option)
5. Fair, and hope it'll get you back on stage instead of get shield grabbed/punished.

Now last but not least Close Quarter Combat with MK. If this happens it can be good or bad, depending solely on how you handle it. ROB is NOT that bad at CQC. If get close this is what you can do.
1. If you have a Gyro GT outta that situation
2. Use ROB's good Jab, F-tilt, and D-tilt...to help handle the situation. If you don't how to play close quarters with ROB you SUCK!
This is what you do:
-Jab>either D-tilt or F-tilt>follow/read D.I.
-Jab>read your opponent
-D-Tilt multiple times
With good CQC you'll be able to handle MK a lot better.
This may sound bad, but believe me it's much better than just Jab>D-tilt>grab crap.



Now for stages. All neutrals are pretty much good.
FD- Good for camping and (trying) to make MK appraoch. Horrible for being in the Air.
BF- Okay for camping. A lot better for not getting juggled. (Just don't jump on the platforms)
SV- IMO the best neutral to take MK to. It's a mixture of FD and BF. (that's all I need to say)
Lylat- Pretty good excpet when you get off stage and trying to retrieve your Gyro.
and the rest are pretty much the same.

CPs/Bann:
CP: I don't think it really matters.
Ban: Most definitely ban either Brinstar, RC, Delfino.

The MU ratio is 65:35; MK's favor.

Soooooo, I said I'd help and I did.

There I finished. Read the rest people.

i actually don't like trying to wavebounce to throw off MKs. I feel like they always read it (they've got that snake practice son) and I just get shuttle looped, but I have terrible DI because of my wavebounce...

I do it occasionally, also I was listing the options.

Then again, who am I kidding I go Snake in this MU.

 

[TheMike]

OP will be updated this weekend. As most people agree with 65-35 being the correct ratio, it will be.

 

[Tin Man]

Alright, I'll drop my 2 cents and hope this stuff hasn't already been said (tho it prolly has )

Game Start:

Camp, don't approach. Charge ur gyro a little bit so that it goes thru tornado. Be careful how and when u use ur projectiles. The gyro only has a certain angle, therefore it can't hit MK who is tornadoing from the air. U would have to full hop/short hop. I don't recommend you ever full hop when u have distance, waste of the space as MK can approach. Use ur laser to hit an MK in the air.

Long Range:

same as above

Middle Range:

Here are a few cute things. ROB's Ftilt outranges everything MK can throw at u from the ground. It will most likely be powersheilded, running in to grab the MK is also another nice option. I down throw MK, and then jump after them, feel them out, see what they'll do so that I know how to react next time (although they may switch it up).watch ur laser and gyro camping at this distance. Laser has considerable start up frames, enough so that MK can tornado from middle range, and reach you before your laser comes out. Predict MK's powersheilding approaches, like i said earlier with grab, short hop neutral air can also be ur friend to beat nado, as well as charging an Fsmash. I recommend only charging an Fsmash if the Mk is in the air, as it can be shielded, then punished if used against him while he is approaching from the ground.

Close Range:

So at this distance, watch ur sidestep dodges, and mix up what u do out of them. If u sidestep dodge to Dsmash too much, the MK can sheild it then punish u with plenty of things such as upB and Dsmash, etc. Sidestep to jabs for shield pressure) or grab work well. Do not just get away from the MK, u can't just pull a defensive maneuver and make a run for it, u need to run away in an aggressive manner. This means u need to force the MK away, and then run. If the MK is Dairing u, u can Utilt in between hits if it is poorly spaced and he is above u. This often leads to Uair, and that makes for a lot of damage. If it is well spaced, then u can Fair him. More than likely u will be shielding the hits. Roll away, as it is a bad position for you to be in, or jump OoS and fair him.

Above the opponent:

When I am above MK, I suck at the gyrobouncing thing, so I just upB. And when I want to change my momentum, I reverse upB then do a Bair which is times easier because I don't need to do any quarter circle inputs. ROB need to reach the ground ASAP, but stall so that you do not get hit by then shuttle loop. That move is a real *****. proper use of Bair & Nair while reading the UpB's will hit Mk out of it. In the case of Nair, you will also be hit, but if u need to send the MK upwards for the kill, I recommend this method. Bair is much better. Do whatever you need to do to reach the ground or an edge. Air dodging is kinda nice, but only use it of the MK is close to u, and your close enough to the ground that the entire air dodge animation can last until you hit the ground.

Recovering:

With ROB, once you decide to recover in a direction (either high or low), you have to commit to that direction. When recovering high, its simple enough to get high, be sure to stay away from the MK so that u do not get shuttle looped off the stage, and then follow what I said in the section above. When recovering low, use your projectiles to knock MK away. Gyro does more knock back, and I tend to use it more, however, the MK can just use an aerial to knock it away, or air dodge both projectiles. I use the gyro 1st and then laser because the laser can be used by angling it up after I have lost some air. This will waste the MK's jumps and force him back on the stage in order to reload. When recovering low, stall the MK out so that he has to be forced back to the stage to reload his jumps. Some MK's will use all of their jumps on you and then rely on their side B to make it back, so be careful of that. Obviously recovering low requires quite the amount of fuel. Rely on ur Nair and ur Uair as they are the only aerials that can hit an opponent above u. Fair is cute but w/e, situational. Out attacks must be timed as MK's attacks will beat our options out. The best way to space out attacks is to stop upBing for a moment, then rise again while attacking. Mix this up. Stall a little bit sometimes, and other times, just attack without stalling. recovering anywhere inbetween high and low will result in you getting intercepted really badly.

Edge Guarding:

Do not go off the stage and intercept MK, you will lose hard and you will be put in a bad position. Use your projectiles to stop his recovery. When edge guarding, MK has a lot of good options to get back on. Basically, place a gyro so that it is just at the tip of the edge so that it hits MK when he is trying to get back on, while doing this, charge a forward smash and release it when the MK hits the gyro. If the stay on the edge, the MK will get hit by the Fsmash while on the edge. Nair can also hit Mk off the edge. Without the Gyro, Fsmash, and Nair are still alright options, but theres nothing much we can do lol. Bair is also a ROB staple when it comes to edge guard options, use it carefully as MK can attack when the hitbox isnt out, but the same goes for your Nair so what can you do.

MK is Planking:

Use your gyro by throwing it down at the MK. The mk will most likely hit it away with the Uair. Try and steal the edge from the MK, then once you have grabbed it, drop down and fair. while ur in your invincibility frames you should be able to safely use this method to punish MK. trying to hit him by running off the stage and Bairing will work, but its risky because it pushes you away, and if you miss MK, ur the one that must recover :/. Nair can also work, but not much that can be done here anyways .

Tornado:

Fsmash, laser, Gyro with anything above 0%charge, and a well spaced Nair go through tornado. If hit by tornado, DI up out of it then hit with a Bair if they are still in the nado animation, or chase them and hit with a fair when they drop away from you. Tilt shield up if the nado is too close to you because none of our options that go through nado will be able to stop it fast enough, they require prediction. when nado is over, Dsmash (that way no matter what side of you they are on, they get punished. Sometimes I notice MK's retreating nado at the last few frames of it then coming back, and it pokes the shield :/. This requires prediction. They are either going to run away with it or come back to you. To avoid the latter happening, roll away, or side step dodge. If u sidestep dodge and you read them right, use our favorite sidestep dodge followup which is Dsmash

Other:

If Mk is gliding at you, a lot of moves clash with glide attack, therefore you can lets say Bair into it then punish with Dsmash (if gliding out of a shuttle loop). Other options would be shield grabbing a poorly spaced shuttle loop when the glide attack hits you. Watch out as if it is well spaced, then u'll have to wait for the next thing MK does as he can upB out of it and attack you with the start up of upB.

Hope this helps

ratio is 65-35. Match up is winnable yes, very uphill, must be a lot better than the MK player, and a lot smarter, and must avoid devastating situations because it is extremely hard to escape them, and can result in a loss of a stock. We can't really do much to stop Mk in several situations so its our lack of options vs his dominance of options that ultimately overwhelmes us and creates a match up ratio such as this.

 

[Zwarm]

I haven't played this matchup enough to have any useful input, but all of your guy's inputs is really helping me!

 

[Spin]

Tin man and mizu own this. Thanks a lot forreal. You all help a lot

 

[TheMike]

OP updated. If there's anything missing, please let me know. If don't, start discussing Snake!

 

[ccst]

Nice, we finnished Meta Knight! My ratio is 45-55 to (R.O.B. has disadvantage), sure that laser can make Snake's granades explode, but it's the broken and error long U-tilt that kill us at 100%, due to our poor DI vertically. Snake lives to 200% sometimes, so try to gimp him instead of killing him. I like to take Snake to big, campy stages, like FD and JJ, but BF works okay here too. If he's recovering, you can just grab him, and let him go to his death. What I'm trying to say is that you can gimp him easily. Try to camp and grab much too. Your tilt's is a fact in this matchup, and try to use your aerials well spaced.

 

[Nova9000]

The only thing I have to comment is that PS1 is also a good starter stage for MK. Other than that, the synopsis looks well done.

I say Snake is 45-55 Snake. We can agitate each other by camping, but because our laser kills their nade cooking, we can make their camping a lot less useful. Up close is where we get punished. Snake's tilts > Rob's tilts. The only exception is a spaced ftilt from ROB, which can outrange his ftilt. Be careful with your gyro. Their DACUS can pick it up, making it more useful to have in your hands rather than on the ground. Since Snake lives to crazy percents and kills you rather early, gimping is what you have to do. There are some exceptions, such as nairing when Snake recovers high, but the basic principle is gimping and harassing him when he recovers. As far as Snake's aerials, all of them are powerful, but laggy at the end. Nair is his best aerial, but watch for bair as well. your aerials beat out his in speed so use them in that manner. His grab game is also a threat. Since Snake is well equipped to handle people who roll, and ROB sucks with his getting up animation, don't be surprised if you get dthrwed 3 times into a utilt. Our grabs should either put him in the air where we want him or out to the edge if you're near one. I know I kinda went in different places with this post, but these afre the things that came to mind.

 

[Spin]

i would not take Snake to BF. his utilt can go through the platforms, and his stupid dacus can control the stage like no other. i don't play very many Snakes, so correct me if i'm wrong, but this is a stage i would strike forsure, then probably ban.

 

[6Mizu]

I help snake with soon. (not til next weekend though, because of the usual school stuff)

 

[Teh Future]

well if mk vs rob is 65-35 then rob vs snake is at least 70-30.

If you are going to exaggerate ratios you have to do it to them all kittens

 

[Silhouette]

against mk:

shield tornado.

dont play like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81tzL0YMyH0

LOL

55-45 mk

if you shield nado correctly then either:

A) you punish mk
B) mk runs away and doesn't get punished

mk gains nothing.

be worse against nado imo

i know you posted words but its hard to take them seriously when you just get shield poked by every tornado ever

well if mk vs rob is 65-35 then rob vs snake is at least 70-30.

If you are going to exaggerate ratios you have to do it to them all kittens

You be trollin.

 

[Teh Future]

I was only trolling in like 80% of that

 

[ccst]

I still think that R.O.B. is always going to have a disadvantage against Snake...

 

[Nova9000]

I agree with the above. I think 55-45 Snake, but it's our best high tier MU IMO.

 

[Zwarm]

I agree with the above. I think 55-45 Snake, but it's our best high tier MU IMO.

Ehh, I agree with it being 55-45 Snake, but we definitely have better matchups against Diddy and IC's. ROB is one of the best IC's counters in the game. =)

To be honest, I hate playing against Snake. He has a lot more options than us, and if he can powershield my projectiles, I'm screwed. It's not worth fighting Snake up close, because his tilts wreak us. I usually CP Dedede against Snake, I just feel more comfortable with him.

 

[Spin]

yeah. we destroy IC's. but 55-45 is probably right, just don't get too close, especially at higher percents.take him to big stages. he is one of the few i actually Dair if i get the chance because his recovery is so predictable, so you don;t have to have perfect timing, just get above him. lol

 

[Nova9000]

Ehh, I agree with it being 55-45 Snake, but we definitely have better matchups against Diddy and IC's. ROB is one of the best IC's counters in the game. =)

To be honest, I hate playing against Snake. He has a lot more options than us, and if he can powershield my projectiles, I'm screwed. It's not worth fighting Snake up close, because his tilts wreak us. I usually CP Dedede against Snake, I just feel more comfortable with him.

I forgot about Diddy. And I actually worded that one wrong; I meant to say the closest MU we have that is not in our favor. I hate Snake as well. Recently I've been losing to takeover's Snake, so I gotta catch up to him. But he has some anti air moves that hinder us from ******.

 

[Silhouette]

Its really important to juggle snake, hes bad at landing like us, mix your Utilts and Uairs to keep him up there and rack that damage, but be careful of him FFing a Bair on top of you.

Once hes off the stage thats your best opportunity to rack up damage, bait the airdoge out of his UpB and punish, don't get distracted by trying to spike him, just keep landing Fairs and knocking him out of his UpB.

Lazer his nades if he tries to cook them, and when he throws his 2nd nade without cooking you can throw it back. Also push for lower port, if someone is grabbed and a nade explodes under them the higher port takes the damage.

I prefer to take him to stages with platforms to help juggle him and avoid his dropped Bairs (though platforms help him too, we share alot of the same strengths), large blast zones for offstage combat, and enough stage to avoid close range combat.
Pick: Battlefield, Smashville, Lylat (pay VERY close attention to where he puts his C4), Delfino, Norfair, RC.
Avoid: Halberd (Ban if your not comfortable here), Brinstar, Castle Seige.
Good for both characters: Luigis, PS1, FD, YI, Frigate, Picto.

55:45 Snake

 

[Teh Future]

lol ICs wreck rob if they know the matchup

 

[Sudai]

Future really likes trolling apparently.