Important The Ridley for SSB4 Thread - End of an Era

[JayJay55]

Unless he's doing it unknowingly. There's a thousand other things I'm sure he'd prefer to show than a stage boss that isn't Yellow Devil.

Listen closely to what the man says....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xUWnQu2Grs#t=432

 

[PeterJude]

No, that's not what I said. I said Bosses are not playable. I never said nonplayable characters would all be bosses.

The definition of equality is quite well defined. You explicitly stated that Boss Characters are the same as not playable, and as such anything not playable are Boss Characters. To be fair though it really should have been:

If Bosses = not playable, then all characters that are not playable are bosses.

Being a boss doesn't mean a character is not playable, being a stage hazard might, but there have been playable characters used as bosses before in the smash series.

 

[Morbi]

Yet he never actually said Ridley was a boss. It was heavily implied, yet never officially clarified. This goes against Sakurai's policy of not giving fans false hope and clarifying exactly what kind of a role characters have in the game immediately after being revealed.

I agree to an extent; however, there is now apt precedent (Meta Knight) that indicates it is not a "policy," it is merely something that he presumably feels obligated to do. One could argue that the Meta Knight situation was cleared up quite quickly, as opposed to Ridley's month to month confusion. Regardless, it is not really evidence in Ridley's favor at this point as the rule has an exception. And a rule with an exception is not an objective rule.

 

[Xenorange]

It's pretty much a given at this point, I've never seen anyone tease something to this extent before. He's made us wait for far to long to disappoint us.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

Make no mistake that Pyrosphere continously shrouded in mystery intentionally, otherwise he would have unveiled Ridley as a boss a year ago when he announced Pyrosphere and said that he could "appear at any second." Sakurai is obviously taking advantage of the Ridley hype, no doubt about it, the only question is if there's going to be a pay-off or not.

the layout of Windy Hill was also "shrouded in mystery"

Eggman confirmed

He said ANY second. That never meant he was gonna show him off. He did reveal the role. People just look too deep into it.

The definition of equality is quite well defined. You explicitly stated that Boss Characters are the same as not playable, and as such anything not playable are Boss Characters. To be fair though it really should have been:

If Bosses = not playable, then all characters that are not playable are bosses.

Being a boss doesn't mean a character is not playable, being a stage hazard might, but there have been playable characters used as bosses before in the smash series.

Oh really. Name a few then.

Listen closely to what the man says....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xUWnQu2Grs#t=432

He says "Bosses appear on other stages too." You see the difference between a Boss and a Playable character is that Bosses aren't playable.

 

[kisamehoshi34]

btw bowser and ganondorf are boss and when he said a ennemi from samis past can appear at any sec that could mean when you play enough pyrosphere you can fight ridley to unlock him

because he want you to think that ridley is a boss or he would have simply say his name or show him

 

[WayfaringElf]

the layout of Windy Hill was also "shrouded in mystery"

Eggman confirmed

He said ANY second. That never meant he was gonna show him off. He did reveal the role. People just look too deep into it.



Oh really. Name a few then.



He says "Bosses appear on other stages too." You see the difference between a Boss and a Playable character is that Bosses aren't playable.

But he never said that Ridley was a boss. He stated that boss characters make appearences on other stages, not just this one. That statement can be interpreted in multiple ways.

 

[JayJay55]

He says "Bosses appear on other stages too." You see the difference between a Boss and a Playable character is that Bosses aren't playable.

You obviously weren't listening when he clearly said:
"Boss characters make appearances in other stages, not just this one."

 

[PeterJude]

It's pretty much a given at this point, I've never seen anyone tease something to this extent before. He's made us wait for far to long to disappoint us.

The only reason Ridley wouldn't be in the game is that they misread the desire for him.

In such a case they may have started teasing at having him as a Boss Character (Stage Hazard Boss) to hype up that kind of thing. What doesn't make sense at this point is to hold off on explicitly showing him as one, having hinted for so long. They may well have seen just how wanted he was following the hints and pulled an abandon ship while trying to come up with a way to soften the blow, but ultimately the best strategy would have just been to reveal him early to let the anger subside before release, not hold it until release.

I wouldn't be surprised with the above, but it makes far more sense, considering how many other characters they listened about, for him alluding to him in that way being a way to build up the excitement when he actually is revealed and keep with the "Oh Sakurai, you crazy" vibe they seem to be trying to foster with the reveals.

 

[Morbi]

Fixed. Even if your quote is more accurate, Ridley is still a Boss character, There is no real reason to hide a stage hazard from us for this long.


Edit: your quote is not accurate either, "Boss characters make appearances in other stages, not just this one."

Sakurai does not need a "real" reason to "hide" a stage-boss for this long, one could argue that it is not precisely hidden either. Assuming the ambiguous allusion to Ridley's role was literal, Ridley was unveiled quite a while ago. We have even seen his model. I doubt it was intentional; however, the argument that, "there is no reason to hide a stage-hazard THIS long" is utterly arbitrary.

 

[Chase]

Firstly, Meta Knight was mentioned by name BEFORE his reveal.
Secondly, how in the whole wide world of Equestria would Boxing Ring DECONFIRM Little Mac. If anything, it made him MORE likely.



Bosses = not playable. He said and I quote this "Bosses appear on other stages as well." as Ridley was shown.

He said "boss CHARACTERS". Bowser is a boss CHARACTER, Donkey Kong is a boss CHARACTER, anyone whose been a boss is a boss CHARACTER.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

the layout of Windy Hill was also "shrouded in mystery"

Eggman confirmed

He said ANY second. That never meant he was gonna show him off. He did reveal the role. People just look too deep into it.

Layout =/= mechanics. Sakurai still explained the windmill, and there wasn't anything more to it, so he didn't need to dedicate anymore updates to it.

Sakurai's wording on the Pyrosphere stage, dedicating several PotDs to looking into every corner of Pyrosphere, the shadow being shown but not Ridley himself. It might not amount to Ridley being playable, but he is definitely taking advantage of the Ridley hype, there's absolutely no denying that, no other disconfirmed character has gotten that treatment at all. If you do not see that then it's because you don't want to see it.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

btw bowser and ganondorf are boss and when he said a ennemi from samis past can appear at any sec that could mean when you play enough pyrosphere you can fight ridley to unlock him

because he want you to think that ridley is a boss or he would have simply say his name or show him

Bowser and Ganondorf are not fought as Bosses, they are fought as playable characters.

But he never said that Ridley was a boss. He stated that boss characters make appearences on other stages, not just this one. That statement can be interpreted in multiple ways.

Even if it can be interpreted many ways, there's no denying the only proof we even have that Ridley exists is in a section about bosses. Not playable characters.

You obviously weren't listening when he clearly said:
"Boss characters make appearances in other stages, not just this one."

It's obvious that I haven't seen the direct since June.

 

[Xenorange]

the layout of Windy Hill was also "shrouded in mystery"

Eggman confirmed

He said ANY second. That never meant he was gonna show him off. He did reveal the role. People just look too deep into it.



Oh really. Name a few then.



He says "Bosses appear on other stages too." You see the difference between a Boss and a Playable character is that Bosses aren't playable.

Why would Sakurai only imply that Ridley is a boss? Why? What reason could he possibly have to be this cryptic? We've seen boss's before, it's not that special. Why wouldn't Sakurai flat out deconfirm him? It holds no purpose for Sakurai to do what he's doing if Ridley is only a boss. He has no reason to hide Ridley, but he did anyway. If he didn't want us to know that Ridley was a boss why show him at all?

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

View attachment 21516 Well, to be more accurate, he was implied to be a boss character. You know who else is a boss character?

Zant.

For those too lazy to see the video:

"Additionally, even the boss character Zant from Twilight Princess is playable in this game"

 

[mistermews]

Every day I become more unsure, about our beloved Ridley. Why would he elaborate on Ridley so much as is, to cause great disbelief in his chances in the fan base and to make any topic in relation to the hope or disbelief of his position in the game. That is, if he knew of the fan base's yearning and requests. We do know for a fact he is definitely in some form in the game.

My point is, he knows of our plight.
I think he does know some of the issues and characters we support on the community, and even if we don't realise it, he addresses it as a Smash fan would.

Look at the Smash Direct, for instance.
During the section with Zelda, right after, he said something to the lines of; "What happened to Sheik? Don't worry, Sheik is back".
He knows that fans would worry about her returning, right after he stated that there were to be no transformation characters. Just look at the phrasing.
Another example is at the Yoshi reveal, and how he states why he was overhauled. Why would he even give a reason? He didn't need to say why he wasn't revealed instantly, but he gave the answer to one of the biggest questions from the fans.
He even went and looked to see that Megaman was the most requested character and added him. Where would he get that information? He'd probably went to somewhere or some website like ours where Smash fans congregate and seen what we have speculated. And if he saw things like fans complaining about Yoshi, what's to stop him from seeing things like the biggest monstrosity of a debate I've ever seen in a fan base, and that's Ridley.

I may be wrong, he can act of his own accord but my point is that he has some general understanding of what the fans are thinking.

 

[PeterJude]

Oh really. Name a few then.

When I'm thinking Boss Characters, what I'm think about was using things like a large Donkey Kong or a metal this or that as a boss in certain modes. There is no reason some mode won't use Ridley as a "Boss" at some stage.

This all said there's no reason to try and predict any of what Sakurai will do, they (the production team) have been purposefully misleading when they allude to things, and have done so time and time again. There is literally no reason to sit on this for so long.

It's also worth noting before you go "different type of Boss", this is a different type of Boss to Master Hand and co too as this is a Stage Hazard Boss we're discussing. I doubt that a stage hazard Ridley would be playable for a number of reasons, but without him specifically showing Ridley doing his thing as a stage hazard there's no reason to take what he said literally at this point, because as we know, Sakurai will do things to hype something and build tension, nervousness and speculation for additional discussion and attention for the game.

Case in point, Meta Knight. Nobody would have questioned if he were coming back, but he managed to raise questions from a few for a day or two there, building up with early pictures of the day, coming up with a confusing one, following up with an irrelevant one, and then posting one late to reveal Meta Knight.

It might be hard to understand how any of what he said would allude to a playable Ridley, but it's equally hard to justify the hype arch they're playing on this one if Ridley weren't playable. Either they're misread the fan base, or they're waiting for a massive reveal, both fit the profile of what's happening, but I'd like to think they haven't misread the community that much.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

Why would Sakurai only imply that Ridley is a boss? Why? What reason could he possibly have to be this cryptic? We've seen boss's before, it's not that special. Why wouldn't Sakurai flat out deconfirm him? It holds no purpose for Sakurai to do what he's doing if Ridkey is just a bods. He has no reason to hide Ridley, but he did anyway? If he didn't want us to know that Ridley was a boss why show him at all?

Because he;s Sakurai. He's full of surprises of all shapes and sizes. Insightful, delightful, large, small, big and tall. He's the Willy Wonka of Nintendo.

For those too lazy to see the video:

"Additionally, even the boss character Zant from Twilight Princess is playable in this game"

And may I ask what Hyrule Warriors, a game developed by a different company has any effect on Smash?

Let's look at Sakurai's other 2 lovechildren; Kirby and Kid Icarus. There has never been a playable boss in them. And there's so much KI influence in this game it's not even funny.

 

[The Legendary Beast]

I think I'll come back later...

Feels like deja vu in here.

 

[Xenorange]

Sakurai does not need a "real" reason to "hide" a stage-boss for this long, one could argue that it is not precisely hidden either. Assuming the ambiguous allusion to Ridley's role was literal, Ridley was unveiled quite a while ago. We have even seen his model. I doubt it was intentional; however, the argument that, "there is no reason to hide a stage-hazard THIS long" is utterly arbitrary.

Who's side are you on? Sometimes I see you claiming beyond a shadow of a doubt that Ridley is playable and other times I see you arguing against his playability. You confuse me.

 

[VenomSymbiote]

Ridley may not be playable Keybladeguy, but to ignore that Ridley is being handled like nothing else so far is a bit silly as well. Everything from the April direct has been discussed except that shadow of Ridley in a pic of the day or otherwise. Things that were less confusing, like Prince Sable, still had Sakurai quickly explain his role after the fact as just an assist. Palutena had her entire model shown and implied to be just a statue on her stage that watches over the fighters and was only referred to as "Goddess of Light", not by her actual name and was actually playable.

The Ridley shadow could be a white lie, a red herring, playable Ridley, or yes even a boss Ridley. To not find the shadow and the coyness surrounding it as anything but fishy is absurd to me. It's been one year since the initial Ridley tease on the Pyrosphere reveal (which could be Ridley's home stage, if playable) and four months since his shadow was shown in April. Nothing has taken this long to discuss what it does except for maybe that S-Flag item. No boss or character has taken this long, especially none that hasn't once been stated by name yet obviously been referenced.

 

[shrooby]

And might I ask where said policy was actually stated to exist?

http://www.polygon.com/2012/12/12/3...ling-twitter-whiners-and-oh-yes-the-new-smash

I'll just pull out the quote for your convenience:

"I don't like it when a tweet or whatever leads to needless speculation getting spread around."



Oh, and, guys, stop bringing up the "boss characters" line as some sort of vague hint or something.
You're just making yourself look like silly.

What Sakurai originally said was "other boss character system gimmicks come up."

Referring directly to the mechanic. Stop trying to find some vague way to interpret something Sakurai didn't even say.

 

[False Sense]

And might I ask where said policy was actually stated to exist?

Certainly.

http://www.polygon.com/2012/12/12/3...ling-twitter-whiners-and-oh-yes-the-new-smash

Here's the most important part of the article.

"I don't like it when a tweet or whatever leads to needless speculation getting spread around."

EDIT: Oh, you have got to be kidding... @ shrooby beat me to it...

 

[The Legendary Beast]

http://www.polygon.com/2012/12/12/3...ling-twitter-whiners-and-oh-yes-the-new-smash

I'll just pull out the quote for your convenience:

"I don't like it when a tweet or whatever leads to needless speculation getting spread around."

That right there is the situation Ridley is in and he told us he doesn't like it when false speculation goes around.

 

[Captain Fun]

He said "boss CHARACTERS". Bowser is a boss CHARACTER, Donkey Kong is a boss CHARACTER, anyone whose been a boss is a boss CHARACTER.

Are you suggesting that he implied there weren't other stage bosses? Because the wording here isn't as ambiguous:

Not that I personally feel the wording was ambiguous in the first place, but maybe I'm just being Mr. Literal over here.

 

[JayJay55]

Sakurai does not need a "real" reason to "hide" a stage-boss for this long, one could argue that it is not precisely hidden either. Assuming the ambiguous allusion to Ridley's role was literal, Ridley was unveiled quite a while ago. We have even seen his model. I doubt it was intentional; however, the argument that, "there is no reason to hide a stage-hazard THIS long" is utterly arbitrary.

Well yes, you are correct about that he does not need a real reason to hide a stage hazard, but my question is why not just out right dis-confirm him? We have yet to get any more information regarding Ridley's role, nor have we even gotten a POTD regarding the Pyrosphere. While I do understand Sakurai likes to be incredibly vague, why not just dis-confirm him right then and there? This whole thing ever since the direct has been very misleading to everyone.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

I think I'll come back later...

Feels like deja vu in here.

Firstly, best simpsons GIF ever.

Ridley may not be playable Keybladeguy, but to ignore that Ridley is being handled like nothing else so far is a bit silly as well. Everything from the April direct has been discussed except that shadow of Ridley in a pic of the day or otherwise. Things that were less confusing, like Prince Sable, still had Sakurai quickly explain his role after the fact as just an assist. Palutena had her entire model shown and implied to be just a statue on her stage that watches over the fighters and was only referred to as "Goddess of Light", not by her actual name and was actually playable.

The Ridley shadow could be a white lie, a red herring, playable Ridley, or yes even a boss Ridley. To not find the shadow and the coyness surrounding it as anything but fishy is absurd to me. It's been one year since the initial Ridley tease on the Pyrosphere reveal (which could be Ridley's home stage, if playable) and four months since his shadow was shown in April. Nothing has taken this long to discuss what it does except for maybe that S-Flag item. No boss or character has taken this long, especially none that hasn't once been stated by name yet obviously been referenced.

I'm not ignoring the fact that it's odd.

http://www.polygon.com/2012/12/12/3...ling-twitter-whiners-and-oh-yes-the-new-smash

I'll just pull out the quote for your convenience:

"I don't like it when a tweet or whatever leads to needless speculation getting spread around."



Oh, and, guys, stop bringing up the "boss characters" line as some sort of vague hint or something.
You're just making yourself look like silly.

What Sakurai originally said was "other boss character system gimmicks come up."

Referring directly to the mechanic. Stop trying to find some vague way to interpret something Sakurai didn't even say.

Everything leads to needless speculation.

Well yes, you are correct about that he does not need a real reason to hide a stage hazard, but my question is why not just out right dis-confirm him? We have yet to get any more information regarding Ridley's role, nor have we even gotten a POTD regarding the Pyrosphere. While I do understand Sakurai likes to be incredibly vague, why not just dis-confirm him right then and there? This whole thing ever since the direct has been very misleading to everyone.

Because he's being the Mashpotato Samurai we all know and love

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

And may I ask what Hyrule Warriors, a game developed by a different company has any effect on Smash?

Let's look at Sakurai's other 2 lovechildren; Kirby and Kid Icarus. There has never been a playable boss in them. And there's so much KI influence in this game it's not even funny.

I bring it up, because one, the etymology used is pretty much the same, and two, the fact that the boss character Zant is playable.

Also, no playable boss characters from Sak's lovechildren franchise? With the exception of Kirby (And I'm probably wrong about that too), every single character revealed so far from KI and Kirby has been fought as a boss. But I suppose you mean played as a boss AND a character in the same game.

Meta Knight is both a boss and a playable character in Super Star Ultra.

King Dedede is both a boss and a playable character in Triple Deluxe.

 

[JayJay55]

It's obvious that I haven't seen the direct since June.

Not like I just brought up a link to the direct or anything.

 

[PeterJude]

http://www.polygon.com/2012/12/12/3...ling-twitter-whiners-and-oh-yes-the-new-smash

I'll just pull out the quote for your convenience:

"I don't like it when a tweet or whatever leads to needless speculation getting spread around."



Oh, and, guys, stop bringing up the "boss characters" line as some sort of vague hint or something.
You're just making yourself look like silly.

What Sakurai originally said was "other boss character system gimmicks come up."

Referring directly to the mechanic. Stop trying to find some vague way to interpret something Sakurai didn't even say.

This is exactly the point, they don't tend to leave loose ends unless they're building speculation to hype something, to build doubt, to build for that massive moment when the reveal something they think the community is going to lap up like thirsty dogs. Either they've really missed the mark on this one, and entirely missed what the community wants on one of the highest profile desired newcomers, or they know exactly what they're doing and playing with us, as they've done this whole time.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

I bring it up, because one, the etymology used is pretty much the same, and two, the fact that the boss character Zant is playable.

Also, no playable boss characters from Sak's lovechildren franchise? With the exception of Kirby (And I'm probably wrong about that too), every single character revealed so far from KI and Kirby has been fought as a boss. But I suppose you mean played as a boss AND a character in the same game.

Meta Knight is both a boss and a playable character in Super Star Ultra.

King Dedede is both a boss and a playable character in Triple Deluxe.

That's a fair point. I'll give you that one.

 

[BrigadeStuart]

well then another debate has started (taking a few minutes for it to continue) off to read

 

[Xenorange]

Are you suggesting that he implied there weren't other stage bosses? Because the wording here isn't as ambiguous:

Not that I personally feel the wording was ambiguous in the first place, but maybe I'm just being Mr. Literal over here.

Wow this post bothers me.

 

[PeterJude]

well then another debate has started (taking a few minutes for it to continue) off to read

I think this one may actually have lost it's steam a bit.

I know, personally I think they should go with the Other M design, as it's clearly the best, most representative of all Ridleys.

...

...bye then...

 

[SchAlternate]

there is the proof right there. It doesn't matter that it's just a shadow. It's clearly Ridley, being described as a boss. I'm sorry, but that's how I feel.

Any time Sakurai has implied a character had an NPC role in the game, but people didn't get what it meant, he'd immediately clarify it and clear the confusion. Other times, he even adds a little addendum going like "BTW he/she is an Assist" as if he knew people could've potentially mistaken their NPC role with a playable one and get false hopes (like with Ashley and Takamaru).

So why would he not say a damn thing about Ridley after so long considering the uproar that's going on?

No, I backed out because Bidoof was being an *** to me, and I don't negotiate with jerks.

Hey, you were the one that reported someone for posting something that wasn't even a slight bit offensive or directly mocking you.

He said "boss CHARACTERS". Bowser is a boss CHARACTER, Donkey Kong is a boss CHARACTER, anyone whose been a boss is a boss CHARACTER.

Just to clarify, that's a translation quirk. The japanese version mentioned a "stage boss gimmick", throwing that out of the window.

It could be the case that Sakurai wasn't referring to Ridley and just being a troll.

 

[BrigadeStuart]

I think this one may actually have lost it's steam a bit.

I know, personally I think they should go with the Other M design, as it's clearly the best, most representative of all Ridleys.

...

...bye then...

perhaps it might of, OR people are typing essays

 

[Captain Fun]

Just to clarify, that's a translation quirk. The japanese version mentioned a "stage boss gimmick", throwing that out of the window.

Very informative. Thank you.

 

[avgjoe]

there is the proof right there. It doesn't matter that it's just a shadow. It's clearly Ridley, being described as a boss. I'm sorry, but that's how I feel



I'm not ignoring the fact that it's odd.



Everything leads to needless speculation.



Because he's being the Mashpotato Samurai we all know and love

You started by saying that Ridley was clearly being described as a boss. we've now got you to the point where you admit that it's ambiguous and odd, just how Sakurai likes it. Thanks for being able to see our side of things. Also, i would like to point out that a clear disconfirmation would not lead to needless speculation.

 

[WayfaringElf]

Can I get a list of all the characters swiftly disconfirmed with their role stated and names mentioned?

 

[Capybara Gaming]

Any time Sakurai has implied a character had an NPC role in the game, but people didn't get what it meant, he'd immediately clarify it and clear the confusion. Other times, he even adds a little addendum going like "BTW he/she is an Assist" as if he knew people could've potentially mistaken their NPC role with a playable one and get false hopes (like with Ashley and Takamaru).

So why would he not say a damn thing about Ridley after so long considering the uproar that's going on?


Hey, you were the one that reported someone for posting something that wasn't even a slight bit offensive or directly mocking you.


Just to clarify, that's a translation quirk. The japanese version mentioned a "stage boss gimmick", throwing that out of the window.

It could be the case that Sakurai wasn't referring to Ridley and just being a troll.

yes, that was offensive to me. AND STOP TALKING ABOUT PRIVATE CONVERSATIONS IN PUBLIC.