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Important The Ridley for SSB4 Thread - End of an Era

CalumG

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Yes Blitz it has been addressed to death, with me involved. No one ****ing pays attention. You see what I mean when I say posts are ignored? M&SG's post is practically verbatim to others in the past.

Picking apart, as in, you took a piece of something out of context and formed a point based on that.
We've covered the Melee trailer a million times please don't bring it up again. It is a poor source when there's already an updated version in the same series; Brawl.
In Brawl, he plummets the Blue Falcon repeatedly in the blink of an eye. His wing attack wind blast covers the entire stage and overpowers your character. His rapid giant fireball attack has high KO potential. These are all moves he can do as STANDARD ATTACKS. These are feats even Master Hand can't do. I think Smash devs have made their case about how they see Ridley.

Got things to do, we'll get back to this later I'm sure. Like I said, Ridley will at least be playable in the Smash engine we're working on.
Yeah... they've shown that they see Ridley exactly how we as fans do, and exactly how the Metroid devs do - as a scary purple space creature of inconsistent size. I think it speaks volumes about how little Ridley's size matters to his character that even the Smash devs themselves have portrayed him as being different sizes. As have the Metroid devs. As have us, the fans.

If that doesn't say the size isn't important, then I don't know what does.
 

Mr Lange

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Yeah... they've shown that they see Ridley exactly how we as fans do, and exactly how the Metroid devs do - as a scary purple space creature of inconsistent size. I think it speaks volumes about how little Ridley's size matters to his character that even the Smash devs themselves have portrayed him as being different sizes. As have the Metroid devs. As have us, the fans.

If that doesn't say the size isn't important, then I don't know what does.
His size inconsistencies are small. His only drastic size changes are in the distant past. It's clear they've stabilized his design more recently, and Brawl reflects that.
They do see Ridley as the fans do; giant overbearing space dragon. I find it difficult to believe they're going to undermine that entirely.
 

_R@bid_

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STOP ****ING SAYING THAT AARRGHH

He already did up above. lern2inb4
Huh. I refreshed the page to see new posts, and typed my post fairly quickly. I guess my computer or the forum didn't register the new posts?
Weird.
Edit: okay I think my computer is seriously screwing with me, I'm not THAT slow.
 

Scoliosis Jones

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We're still going on about this?

I really don't see why making Ridley roughly as Tall as Bowser in Smash 4, and about as wide as Charizard in Brawl would be insulting to Ridley. He's still bigger than Samus, and most of the roster anyway. Making him BIG like he's supposed to be.
 

CalumG

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His size inconsistencies are small. His only drastic size changes are in the distant past. It's clear they've stabilized his design more recently, and Brawl reflects that.
They do see Ridley as the fans do; giant overbearing space dragon. I find it difficult to believe they're going to undermine that entirely.
And recently they've stabilized Bowser's design, but even before the help of size-shifting magic, Bowser has been at least three full-sized Mario's tall in Mario 3D Land, NSMB2 and NSMBU. We do not see this in action. Undermining Ridley would be relegating him to poorly-designed-boss status again.
 

Mr Lange

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And recently they've stabilized Bowser's design, but even before the help of size-shifting magic, Bowser has been at least three full-sized Mario's tall in Mario 3D Land, NSMB2 and NSMBU. We do not see this in action. Undermining Ridley would be relegating him to poorly-designed-boss status again.
Please see the past few pages for my posts concerning Bowser.
As a boss, Ridley shined. I'd be upset if they nerfed him for playability, it wouldn't be Ridley anymore.
 

Reznor

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Please see the past few pages for my posts concerning Bowser.
you said bowser grows because of magic but in the mario games i've played (mostly the 2d ones) it never says or shows bowser using magic to grow its just a assumption

well in Paper Mario he uses magic to grow but thats Paper Mario
 

Scoliosis Jones

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Please see the past few pages for my posts concerning Bowser.
As a boss, Ridley shined. I'd be upset if they nerfed him for playability, it wouldn't be Ridley anymore.
That's like saying, "Oh Bowser isn't a towering behemoth anymore like he was in these several Mario games? He sucks!"

Ridley in Smash would likely be a heavy character who is predominantly better than anyone else in the air, having several jumps to keep him in the air, and chase opponents. His ground game would suffer, however he would still be strong but slow. He could have a moveset mixed with projectiles and physical attacks to mix up playstyles. They could even make it so his size is overbearing on characters so it makes it a bit more difficult for characters like Olimar to completely escape.

There are several things they could do to make Ridley portray his Metroid self.
 

Anomilus

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Wow.... my post just went completely ignored. Not even a SINGLE reply? It was pretty darn hard to miss...

...Any reply would have worked. But you guys just skipped right over to keep barking at each other.




Mr. Lange, I have to say this, but you really do NOT do yourself favors arguing some of your points AND calling yourself a game developer. What I mean is that it seems like you would seriously limit yourself for your own visions, based on what I've read of your posts. I understand there should be some limits so as to not go off the deep end, but you also don't want to come off as creatively shallow and rigid.
 

Mr Lange

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you said bowser grows because of magic but in the mario games i've played (mostly the 2d ones) it never says or shows bowser using magic to grow its just a assumption

well in Paper Mario he uses magic to grow but thats Paper Mario
I explained it in earlier pages, in the 120s.
It does not directly say it. It is implied heavily through the events that occur.
For example, in Galaxy it shows him shrinking and growing with the stars that are in his possession.
Grand stars, being more powerful than regular stars, cause him to become colossal. When Mario takes it away from him, he shrinks to a much smaller size.
In Ridley's case there is no plot excuse for his size changes, just not having a consistent design, which they've shown to be maintaining more nowadays.
I did read the past few pages. You said Bowser's giant sizes were normally due to magic - to which I'm responding that even before magic comes into play he's still multiple times Mario's size. You then proceeded to list off some appearances of Bowser from spin-off games (including Paper Mario) and 2D games, which I fail to see the relevance of now that Bowser's default, 3D, main-series size has been established as, generally, at least three Mario's tall.

...Unless I'm missing a post. Feel free to point it out.
Often in the beginning of his schemes, he is extra large. I wouldn't doubt this is due to magic, or because of power he has hoarded in advance (SM64, already having power stars).
Spinoff games are canon. Paper Mario is also regarded as canon (Mario Kart Wii has Dry Dry Desert as a course, also acknowledged by trophies in Brawl).
 

CalumG

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Please see the past few pages for my posts concerning Bowser.
As a boss, Ridley shined. I'd be upset if they nerfed him for playability, it wouldn't be Ridley anymore.
I did read the past few pages. You said Bowser's giant sizes were normally due to magic - to which I'm responding that even before magic comes into play he's still multiple times Mario's size. You then proceeded to list off some appearances of Bowser from spin-off games (including Paper Mario) and 2D games, which I fail to see the relevance of now that Bowser's default, 3D, main-series size has been established as, generally, at least three Mario's tall.

...Unless I'm missing a post. Feel free to point it out.
 

Swamp Sensei

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Please see the past few pages for my posts concerning Bowser.
As a boss, Ridley shined. I'd be upset if they nerfed him for playability, it wouldn't be Ridley anymore.
Nerfed?

Ridley was pathetically easy as a boss.

If anything, being playable would make him more powerful.
 

SmashBro99

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I mean...not for nothing but you guys say "Ridley's size doesn't matter" and "Metroid is a really important series!" but he wasn't in Melee...and he was just a (large) boss in Brawl, if they thought he was important they would have added him by now, no?
 

Anomilus

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His size inconsistencies are small. His only drastic size changes are in the distant past. It's clear they've stabilized his design more recently, and Brawl reflects that.
They do see Ridley as the fans do; giant overbearing space dragon. I find it difficult to believe they're going to undermine that entirely.



Not a direct response to this exact post, but I've wanted to bring up something regarding SSE.

I consider SSE to really be its own sort of entity. I find that it's not so simple to directly reference that game mode for points regarding the developers' intentions in regards to Smash Bros. Brawl. The thing is, Subspace Emissary is practically a KIRBY GAME. What I mean is that it plays less like a Smash game with familiar Kirby-esque design elements and more like a Kirby game that adapted Smash Bros.'s mechanics.

I suppose my point is that ALL the bosses follow design rules intended for Subspace Emissary, NOT Smash Bros. Brawl. It makes sense that Ridley retain his most relevant physical state instead of something more fitting for a Smash game. If thought of that way, you could say that Ridley could be adapted for a playable character, not regarding how it would turn out in the end.
 

ChozoBoy

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I did read the past few pages. You said Bowser's giant sizes were normally due to magic - to which I'm responding that even before magic comes into play he's still multiple times Mario's size. You then proceeded to list off some appearances of Bowser from spin-off games (including Paper Mario) and 2D games, which I fail to see the relevance of now that Bowser's default, 3D, main-series size has been established as, generally, at least three Mario's tall.

...Unless I'm missing a post. Feel free to point it out.
Mario is a fantasy series with a huge emphasis on scale manipulation. (Items, stages, characters. etc.) This Bower talk is really getting nowhere. If you can't acknowledge this, then I don't think anyone is interested in a discussion where you grasp at straws anymore.
 

Scoliosis Jones

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Nerfed?

Ridley was pathetically easy as a boss.

If anything, being playable would make him more powerful.
QFT.
Wow.... my post just went completely ignored. Not even a SINGLE reply? It was pretty darn hard to miss...

...Any reply would have worked. But you guys just skipped right over to keep barking at each other.




Mr. Lange, I have to say this, but you really do NOT do yourself favors arguing some of your points AND calling yourself a game developer. What I mean is that it seems like you would seriously limit yourself for your own visions, based on what I've read of your posts. I understand there should be some limits so as to not go off the deep end, but you also don't want to come off as creatively shallow and rigid.

@Anomilis, I have a suggestion for your Ridley making. Consider making him the size I stated above. About as tall as Smash 4 Bowser, and about as wide as Charizard in Brawl. I just want to see what that would look like to see if i'd be alright with that myself.

I would also recommend giving him an upright stance with Ridley leaning Forward a bit. I feel that would suit him better.
 

Swamp Sensei

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Somewhat easy to take down. His attacks however are devastating in Brawl.
You call that devastating?

Tabuu was devastating.

Ridley as a boss was pathetically easy. Easy to dodge moves, One attack that has decent knockback, several attacks that do little damage. He was easy.

I mean...not for nothing but you guys say "Ridley's size doesn't matter" and "Metroid is a really important series!" but he wasn't in Melee...and he was just a (large) boss in Brawl, if they thought he was important they would have added him by now, no?
People argued that point for Diddy, Dedede, Olimar, Villager, etc.

Null point.
 

CalumG

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Often in the beginning of his schemes, he is extra large. I wouldn't doubt this is due to magic, or because of power he has hoarded in advance (SM64, already having power stars).
Except even at the end of recent Mario games, when he's no doubt had the magic beaten out of him, he's still pretty damn huge:


(Skip to 1:20 onwards)
Spinoff games are canon. Paper Mario is also regarded as canon (Mario Kart Wii has Dry Dry Desert as a course, also acknowledged by trophies in Brawl).
Hmm... you're right, Bowser is a smaller size in these games... it's almost like they made him smaller in spin-offs because he'd fit the gameplay better, amirite? Amirite? :troll: I can't possibly think of another game where they could shrink characters to fit the gameplay better though... what a shame.
 

ChozoBoy

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QFT.



@Anomilis, I have a suggestion for your Ridley making. Consider making him the size I stated above. About as tall as Smash 4 Bowser, and about as wide as Charizard in Brawl. I just want to see what that would look like to see if i'd be alright with that myself.

I would also recommend giving him an upright stance with Ridley leaning Forward a bit. I feel that would suit him better.
Ridley doesn't ever stand upright except when hit by an attack. That's just silly. We've already gone over this. (Not that this thread isn't all about retreading, anyway.)
 

SmashBro99

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Well I mean they added Ridley...where they thought he fit, as a boss.
 

Scoliosis Jones

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I mean...not for nothing but you guys say "Ridley's size doesn't matter" and "Metroid is a really important series!" but he wasn't in Melee...and he was just a (large) boss in Brawl, if they thought he was important they would have added him by now, no?
Oh sure. But then who do we add for Smash 4? Nobody's that don't matter to Nintendo?

They have several big name characters that they could add. Ridley is one of them.
 

Scoliosis Jones

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Ridley doesn't ever stand upright except when hit by an attack. That's just silly. We've already gone over this. (Not that this thread isn't all about retreading, anyway.)
I didn't say completely upright. I said leaning, basically hunched over. Or maybe even a Donkey Kongish stance.
 

LaniusShrike

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I mean, the playable characters are always more powerful than the bosses (see every video game ever.)

In any case, clearly none of these arguments are going anywhere. It's not like we're even trying to convince each other at this point, since after 136 pages we know it's not gonna happen. Let's just try to move on from it all.

You know.

Like we always do.

Until someone decides to come in here and throw the same tired sh*t around.
 

BlitznBurst

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Mario is a fantasy series with a huge emphasis on scale manipulation. (Items, stages, characters. etc.) This Bower talk is really getting nowhere. If you can't acknowledge this, then I don't think anyone is interested in a discussion where you grasp at straws anymore.
I thought Mario was about a drug-induced fantasy where mushrooms are everywhere and everything has eyes
 

Anomilus

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@Anomilis, I have a suggestion for your Ridley making. Consider making him the size I stated above. About as tall as Smash 4 Bowser, and about as wide as Charizard in Brawl. I just want to see what that would look like to see if i'd be alright with that myself.

I would also recommend giving him an upright stance with Ridley leaning Forward a bit. I feel that would suit him better.
I'll go ahead and do that. JUST to give you some additional visuals to work with. Won't be right away, and I don't want to spend too much time on the image, 'cause frankly I take too long drawing these Ridley images as it is... =/
 

Phaazoid

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Yes Blitz it has been addressed to death, with me involved. No one ****ing pays attention. You see what I mean when I say posts are ignored? M&G's post is practically verbatim to others in the past.

Picking apart, as in, you took a piece of something out of context and formed a point based on that.
We've covered the Melee trailer a million times please don't bring it up again. It is a poor source when there's already an updated version in the same series; Brawl.
In Brawl, he plummets the Blue Falcon repeatedly in the blink of an eye. His wing attack wind blast covers the entire stage and overpowers your character. His rapid giant fireball attack has high KO potential. These are all moves he can do as STANDARD ATTACKS. These are feats even Master Hand can't do. I think Smash devs have made their case about how they see Ridley.

Got things to do, we'll get back to this later I'm sure. Like I said, Ridley will at least be playable in the Smash engine we're working on.
I'm not pulling it out of context. I'm debasing a piece of evidence used for a larger claim. If the evidence is bunk, then the larger claim begins to crumble.

It feels like you guys are arguing that the only element of Ridley that feels Ridley is his size, and if they take that, he won't be Ridley enough for you. That's just the Ridley's too big meme we made, not real life.

You say you have an updated version of the melee trailer, brawl. Well Ridley has appeared a few times since brawl, too, so Brawl isn't most recent. They may have scaled him up for brawl, given him crazy attacks, FOR A BOSS. You're arguing that Ridley's attacks as boss are too strong, but this is because he was represented AS a boss. It's circular logic, and I'm not following it. The point is, he would be made on a playable scale. Bowser has had some earth shattering (literally) attacks in his games, when he was a boss. Yet here he is in smash, playable.
 

Mr Lange

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You call that devastating?

Tabuu was devastating.

Ridley as a boss was pathetically easy. Easy to dodge moves, One attack that has decent knockback, several attacks that do little damage. He was easy.
Tabuu is the final boss, so obviously.
I think you should reread what I wrote about his attacks in Brawl and play it again.
Ridley's attacks are game breakers, more so than half the bosses in Brawl. They don't even remotely fit into the scheme of playable attacks.
You say you have an updated version of the melee trailer, brawl. Well Ridley has appeared a few times since brawl, too, so Brawl isn't most recent. They may have scaled him up for brawl, given him crazy attacks, FOR A BOSS. You're arguing that Ridley's attacks as boss are too strong, but this is because he was represented AS a boss. It's circular logic, and I'm not following it. The point is, he would be made on a playable scale. Bowser has had some earth shattering (literally) attacks in his games, when he was a boss. Yet here he is in smash, playable.
Because Bowser has had radical power upgrades when he's a boss. When he's playable in Mario games, he's just as pathetic as he is in Smash. There's no similar excerpts for Ridley from his series. He's always OPd and bosslike.
Except even at the end of recent Mario games, when he's no doubt had the magic beaten out of him, he's still pretty damn huge:


(Skip to 1:20 onwards)


Hmm... you're right, Bowser is a smaller size in these games... it's almost like they made him smaller in spin-offs because he'd fit the gameplay better, amirite? Amirite? :troll: I can't possibly think of another game where they could shrink characters to fit the gameplay better though... what a shame.
All that does is confirm my point. His size is wildly variable in the Mario games, due to magic and plot devices, whatever fits the scheme at the time.
The same is not true for Ridley.
 

Erimir

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If Sakurai thinks he can do it in a way that will please the fans, he probably will. Ridley is one of the most requested newcomers in the West (where Metroid is popular - in Japan I imagine his lower rank is due primarily to Metroid being less popular). I don't think he'd have an idea of how to make Ridley and then decide "Oh, there's some minority of Metroid fans that will be somewhat disappointed that Ridley is small, so we shouldn't do it" or "Oh, this size isn't really consistent with the games, so while he's still quite large, we must respect the Metroid devs."

And I imagine most of the "too big" group would get over it quite quickly if Ridley's move set was really fitting and fun to play as.
It all goes back to my "Fred the giant" comparison. If there was a character called Fred the Giant, whose entire point is being, well, giant, and he was insanely popular, and Sakurai noticed his popularity - what do you expect him to do? Make Fred the Giant smaller? His entire gimmick is being giant, so if he's not giant any more, what's the point?
And yet, Ridley is not "Fred the Giant." And his "entire gimmick" is not being a giant. Fred the Giant would literally just be a regular man if he's the same size as the other characters. Ridley would still be a space dragon-like creature.

And if Fred the Giant was interesting enough, did things that didn't revolve around just being gigantic, and had a visually distinctive look, I could see him being included, actually. If Bowser was never shrunk down as he is in Super Mario RPG or Mario Kart or other games in which he's playable (notice that he's usually much larger when he's a boss), I would still think he'd make a good playable character. Because yes, while he's much larger than Mario, that's not the only thing interesting about him. Of course, when you propose a hypothetical character that unlike Ridley is defined only by being a giant, of course it would sound more ridiculous.
Or, if you want a better comparison, look at Kraid.

Yeah, you're hardly going to make him smaller, now are you?
If we ignore the original Metroid (which I'm sure you are fine with, as Ridley is small in that one too) and chalk that up to technical limitations... Kraid makes Ridley look tiny. He is an immobile hulk with tiny or unseen legs that takes up multiple screens (and this is how he's also portrayed in the planned Metroid Prime boss and in Nintendo Land). Size is a continuous quality, not an either-or. Kraid being too big doesn't imply that Ridley is too big, considering that Ridley is, you know, much smaller than Kraid. If you want a convincing comparison, you should be bringing up a character that is SMALLER than Ridley, but yet everyone can agree is STILL TOO BIG. Bringing up significantly larger characters doesn't demonstrate anything, other than possibly that there is a point at which a character is too big. But it doesn't show that Ridley is too big, because that point could easily be somewhere between Ridley and Kraid.

So I'm not sure of the point of bringing up Kraid. Am I supposed to think that Ridley is just like Kraid? Because I don't. It's like asking if I think Galactus would make a good playable character - as if the contrast between Galactus and Ridley is going to make me conclude that Ridley is more like Galactus than he is like Bowser.
Then none of you should be arguing that "they don't give a **** about canon". That has been a lot of these arguments. And I'm the one who's been trying to explain that matters are not so black and white.
They want things to resemble their source material, for sure. Canon matters. It's not the only thing that matters, and they certainly feel free to tweak it many ways (some more extreme than others, e.g. Ganondorf's move set).

I have never argued that canon doesn't matter. But what you're trying to argue is that Ridley being huge is the most important facet of him and that's one part of canon they would/should never change, because unlike the other tweaks it would "ruin" Ridley as a character (of course, your use of "ruin" is just an opinion). But you're trying to couch that argument as if saying "canon matters" does all the work of convincing that Ridley's size is part of the "untouchable" part of canon.
In Ridley's case, he's known for having the strength to chuck tanks like it was nothing, wings powerful enough to overcome a wind tunnel, and giant fireball spams that KO characters very quickly. You could say the same is true for some of the others, but they've made a distinction as of Brawl how those powers apply in battle. He repeatedly ****s with the entire stage, in a manner similar to Kraid. This goes beyond what any of the other bosses even do in Brawl.
You're talking only about Brawl Ridley here. This description does not at all describe him in Metroid, Super Metroid, Zero Mission or Metroid Fusion. It also is a bit of an exaggeration of how he behaves in Metroid Prime games and The Other M (and personally, I'd prefer to just ignore The Other M's version of Ridley - I enjoyed the gameplay in The Other M, but the little birdie and all that **** was dumb as hell).

Anyway, Brawl is not canon. And I don't see why Ridley in Brawl as a boss indicates that he's impossible as a playable character. Or why Brawl tells us everything about how the Smash devs think about Ridley but the Melee opening video doesn't tell us anything. If we suppose that Bowser was not already a playable character, and they used him as a boss, how do you think they would design him? With massive, stage covering attacks like he has as a final boss in Mario 64, Mario Galaxy, New Super Mario Bros, etc. or would he be the same size he is now with similarly small attacks? And would anyone think that this represents the only way the devs see him, or just as the way the devs see him as a boss?
Yeah, It was big. Sort of like the enormous ROBs at Port Town...


Admit it... You didn't think this one all the way through, did you?
Ha, I forgot about that. They explicitly call out how Olimar is totally resized with that reference.

It'd be funny if they did the same thing with Ridley, but had him menacing over a tiny Samus... only to have Samus grow in size because she was merely under the effect of a Poison Mushroom.
 

Anomilus

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You call that devastating?

Tabuu was devastating.

Ridley as a boss was pathetically easy. Easy to dodge moves, One attack that has decent knockback, several attacks that do little damage. He was easy.
Let's also keep in mind that all enemy knockback in SSE are scaled in relation to the set difficulty. We'd have to see how strong Ridley was on Normal mode for an accurate representation of his supposed SSE strength.


...Again though, this IS Subspace Emissary. I'd almost go as far as to call it a spin-off of Smash. Seriously, Melee's Adventure mode had it right by taking its engine and simply making a sort of platform adventure out of it. SSE was a corruption of Brawl's engine adapted to a design much more similar to a Kirby game. It's no surprise you find people who disliked SSE.
 

Reznor

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I'm not pulling it out of context. I'm debasing a piece of evidence used for a larger claim. If the evidence is bunk, then the larger claim begins to crumble.

It feels like you guys are arguing that the only element of Ridley that feels Ridley is his size, and if they take that, he won't be Ridley enough for you. That's just the Ridley's too big meme we made, not real life.

You say you have an updated version of the melee trailer, brawl. Well Ridley has appeared a few times since brawl, too, so Brawl isn't most recent. They may have scaled him up for brawl, given him crazy attacks, FOR A BOSS. You're arguing that Ridley's attacks as boss are too strong, but this is because he was represented AS a boss. It's circular logic, and I'm not following it. The point is, he would be made on a playable scale. Bowser has had some earth shattering (literally) attacks in his games, when he was a boss. Yet here he is in smash, playable.
cool thing about Ridley in Brawl a lot of his attacks are attacks that DynaBlade uses
 

Hotfeet444

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My God this thread is crumbling at the hinges. From persistent idiots who are trying way too damn hard (Mr. Lange) and one who should just stop because he's terrible at what he does (Smashbro99), the last time I checked, we've already said that size doesn't matter in Smash Bros so many times, so why is that all I see in past pages are nothing but SIZE ARGUMENTS?!
 

Reznor

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My God this thread is crumbling at the hinges. From persistent idiots who are trying way too damn hard (Mr. Lange) and one who should just stop because he's terrible at what he does (Smashbro99), the last time I checked, we've already said that size doesn't matter in Smash Bros so many times, so why is that all I see in past pages are nothing but SIZE ARGUMENTS?!
its pretty much the only argument for him not to be playable and its not even a good one
 

Curious Villager

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Size size size... Just give that dragon a Poison Mushroom and call it a day. Geez.

Or give him some kind of excuse like he accidentally drank a shrinking potion and got shrunk if size is such an issue. Since Sakurai likes coming up with excuses to justify certain things for certain characters. (PSI Kids having learned the PSI moves from their friends etc) Seriously people....
 

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Let's also keep in mind that all enemy knockback in SSE are scaled in relation to the set difficulty. We'd have to see how strong Ridley was on Normal mode for an accurate representation of his supposed SSE strength.
I was referring to normal.

Tabuu is the final boss, so obviously.
I think you should reread what I wrote about his attacks in Brawl and play it again.
Ridley's attacks are game breakers, more so than half the bosses in Brawl. They don't even remotely fit into the scheme of playable attacks.
Yet, he's still pathetically easy. They would not be game breakers as most everyone can dodge them with ease.
 
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