Important The Ridley for SSB4 Thread - End of an Era

[RODO]

Bowser's default size is fairly consistent, but throughout the series his size varies a lot. In many boss battles he's seen as much larger, and in some cases he's Godzilla sized. But there is a reason for this implied heavily throughout the series, which involves what magic/power Bowser is abusing at the time. He's also frequently seen growing in size when involved with Kamek or Kammy. Ridley has no excuse other than inconsistent designs, but he has only minor variations. On the whole, it is shown he is meant to be very large; this is Ridley's natural state, unlike Bowser.

Olimar looks and functions exactly the same. The math is unbelievable, but seeing him interact with the other characters at their level is believable. They can keep everything in proportion for Olimar when he changes size. The same cannot be said for Ridley. Additionally, Olimar has had no interaction with any other characters, ever. His size is only informed, never shown. If the plot were that he was human sized on a macro planet, it would be every bit as believable. Ridley on the other hand has frequent interaction with Samus, giving the viewer a sense of his size compared to human characters.

Anime =/= canon. Charizard's size was established all throughout Smash until his inclusion.

Disagree with your stance on Olimar. You're saying that he can still function properly so it's ok, but why wouldn't Ridley be able to function properly at 3/4ths his size? He should still be able to do all of his moves.

 

[CalumG]

Wow... Is the "Ridley is too big" argument really making a comeback? Really? Today isn't April Fools guys, I don't get it. :S

But hey, if we're going to play a game of broken logic, I'll throw my two-cents out there:

Smash Bros. characters are figurines. Figurines aren't always to scale. Argument over.

 

[Mr Lange]

I love it when people use the spin off sports games as evidence instead of main series games.

I used examples from both. As far as the devs are concerned, the sports and spinoffs like Mario Party are 100% canon. They've made this abundantly clear.

Disagree with your stance on Olimar. You're saying that he can still function properly so it's ok, but why wouldn't Ridley be able to function properly at 3/4ths his size? He should still be able to do all of his moves.

Olimar is a bad comparison for fitting Ridley. As I said (and someone else a few posts back) Olimar has never been seen compared to anyone else. They scaled Olimar to ridiculous size because there is nothing about Olimar in appearance that works against his inclusion other than the numbers in the plot. They make a point out of Ridley's size compared to Samus and the other characters. This has never been done with Olimar because he's always been isolated. Shrinking Ridley to fit in Smash would not look believable. Olimar's character does have believability when one sees him interact with the cast. The devs know this and apply this to their designs.

Wow... Is the "Ridley is too big" argument really making a comeback? Really? Today isn't April Fools guys, I don't get it. :S

But hey, if we're going to play a game of broken logic, I'll throw my two-cents out there:

Smash Bros. characters are figurines. Figurines aren't always to scale. Argument over.

No. The devs care about proportion. They want the cast to look believable interacting with each other because each character has a lot of familiarity with the audience. They don't just do whatever the **** they want. They keep the most important features intact.

 

[_R@bid_]

About relative size with Olimar...
In game, one of the treasures you can find is ROB's head, which is enormous. Yet in Smash, their relative sizes are much closer. Why is it okay for them to change and not Ridley? Other than believability, which is purely subjective.

 

[Dark Phazon]

Disagree with your stance on Olimar. You're saying that he can still function properly so it's ok, but why wouldn't Ridley be able to function properly at 3/4ths his size? He should still be able to do all of his moves.

I think he means because brawl ridley had many moves that reflected his size used his size for power...its not like there gonna give him all his brawl moves and call it a day...well judging how they punk Ganondorf who knows....

Ridley could still use his brawl moves creating a whirlwind to blow bowser back maybe abit ridiculous but its Smash...it doesnt need to make sense...

 

[BlitznBurst]

It all goes back to my "Fred the giant" comparison. If there was a character called Fred the Giant, whose entire point is being, well, giant, and he was insanely popular, and Sakurai noticed his popularity - what do you expect him to do? Make Fred the Giant smaller? His entire gimmick is being giant, so if he's not giant any more, what's the point? Or, if you want a better comparison, look at Kraid.

Yeah, you're hardly going to make him smaller, now are you?

 

[Reznor]

I used examples from both. As far as the devs are concerned, the sports and spinoffs like Mario Party are 100% canon. They've made this abundantly clear.

I think we're gonna need proof

 

[8-peacock-8]

I used examples from both. As far as the devs are concerned, the sports and spinoffs like Mario Party are 100% canon. They've made this abundantly clear.

More like they make it clear that they don't really care that much about canon in the series.

 

[Dark Phazon]

Wow... Is the "Ridley is too big" argument really making a comeback? Really? Today isn't April Fools guys, I don't get it. :S

But hey, if we're going to play a game of broken logic, I'll throw my two-cents out there:

Smash Bros. characters are figurines. Figurines aren't always to scale. Argument over.

RealTalk.....sickman.

 

[_R@bid_]

It all goes back to my "Fred the giant" comparison. If there was a character called Fred the Giant, whose entire point is being, well, giant, and he was insanely popular, and Sakurai noticed his popularity - what do you expect him to do? Make Fred the Giant smaller? His entire gimmick is being giant, so if he's not giant any more, what's the point? Or, if you want a better comparison, look at Kraid.

Yeah, you're hardly going to make him smaller, now are you?

But Ridley's gimmick in Metroid games is not that he's enormous- there's plenty of bigger ones by far- but that he's mobile, always flying around. Those examples are not very good comparisons in this case.

 

[FalKoopa]

Guys, I realized that Bowser's character and personality are destroyed immediately when he gets a poison mushroom.

 

[RODO]

I used examples from both. As far as the devs are concerned, the sports and spinoffs like Mario Party are 100% canon. They've made this abundantly clear.

Olimar is a bad comparison for fitting Ridley. As I said (and someone else a few posts back) Olimar has never been seen compared to anyone else. They scaled Olimar to ridiculous size because there is nothing about Olimar in appearance that works against his inclusion other than the numbers in the plot. They make a point out of Ridley's size compared to Samus and the other characters. This has never been done with Olimar because he's always been isolated. Shrinking Ridley to fit in Smash would not look believable. Olimar's character does have believability when one sees him interact with the cast. The devs know this and apply this to their designs.

No. The devs care about proportion. They want the cast to look believable interacting with each other because each character has a lot of familiarity with the audience. They don't just do whatever the **** they want. They keep the most important features intact.

I doubt you saw my post awhile back, but there are humorous ways to shrink Ridley that would make his inclusion possible. For example, getting a rejection letter for the smash tourney because he's too big, so he goes to his space pirate buddies and gets their scientists to make a shrinking machine so that he can participate in the tourney. Sakurai has ultimate power in this game. Some people would probably argue that Wii Fit Trainer would never be in a game before her inclusion. We can't say for sure what he's thinking or what he wants so it's best to say that anything is a possibility at this point.

 

[Dark Phazon]

It all goes back to my "Fred the giant" comparison. If there was a character called Fred the Giant, whose entire point is being, well, giant, and he was insanely popular, and Sakurai noticed his popularity - what do you expect him to do? Make Fred the Giant smaller? His entire gimmick is being giant, so if he's not giant any more, what's the point? Or, if you want a better comparison, look at Kraid.

Yeah, you're hardly going to make him smaller, now are you?

Yh but people seem to think that Size id the defining factor of Ridley...its like the #1 best trait he has..it defines him.....(-_-)

Most Villians are huge its a basic feature that induces intimadation big bad wolf etc...its basic sheet.....

You could say the whole deal about olimar and pikmin is the fascination and challenges of tryna cope and navigate being so small....they took that away from him when he entered brawl...being small defined olimar it was his main trait.....

And this is all taking canon into consideration which it shouldnt be anyway...ofc they are barriers/limits and you think this is hitting one..but we all think it isnt..thats the whole sheet...

 

[BlitznBurst]

Guys, I realized that Bowser's character and personality are destroyed immediately when he gets a poison mushroom.

Holy ****, an item designed to make people small makes Bowser small as well?

 

[8-peacock-8]

Holy ****, an item designed to make people small makes Bowser small as well?

 

[Dark Phazon]

Guys, I realized that Bowser's character and personality are destroyed immediately when he gets a poison mushroom.

Thats what im sayinggggggg ReaalTalk.

All this is defently stupid now....you know what i think the biggest problem is that Ridley shows no emotion or personality through metroid so they dont know how to judge him...so they just pick the easiest thing about him...Bowser/GDorf dont have that problem we all know what kinda people they are and there intentions...

No one knows nothing about Ridley....its like back in school you see a fat kid that speaks a language bo one else does so he is alone and speaks to no one...you dont know his name...his personality...so kids just refer to him as fat kid...or Big kid the kids name is Ridley xD

Hope you all get my point...(-_-)

 

[CalumG]

A very big (almost 'too big' you could say ) part of me wants to see something ridiculous like Doshin revealed to be a newcomer just as a giant middle finger to the size-naysayers.

 

[BlitznBurst]

Thats what im sayinggggggg ReaalTalk.

All this is defently stupid now....you know what i think the biggest problem is that Ridley shows no emotion or personality through metroid so they dont know how to judge him...so they just pick the easiest thing about him...Bowser/GDorf dont have that problem we all know what kinda people they are and there intentions...

No one knows nothing about Ridley....its like back in school you see a fat kid that speaks a language bo one else does so he is alone and speaks to no one...you dont know his name...his personality...so kids just refer to him as fat kid...or Big kid the kids name is Ridley xD

Hope you all get my point...(-_-)

This is an even worse comparison than my Fred the Giant one

 

[RODO]

A very big (almost 'too big' you could say ) part of me wants to see something ridiculous like Doshin revealed to be a newcomer just as a giant middle finger to the size-naysayers.

I'm waiting for Travis Touchdown to be announced so that people will stop hating but anyway.....Ridley

 

[8-peacock-8]

A very big (almost 'too big' you could say ) part of me wants to see something ridiculous like Doshin revealed to be a newcomer just as a giant middle finger to the size-naysayers.

Why not yellow Devil?

Guy is already in the game.

 

[Mr Lange]

It all goes back to my "Fred the giant" comparison. If there was a character called Fred the Giant, whose entire point is being, well, giant, and he was insanely popular, and Sakurai noticed his popularity - what do you expect him to do? Make Fred the Giant smaller? His entire gimmick is being giant, so if he's not giant any more, what's the point? Or, if you want a better comparison, look at Kraid.

Yeah, you're hardly going to make him smaller, now are you?

My point, right here. Well said.

Guys, I realized that Bowser's character and personality are destroyed immediately when he gets a poison mushroom.

Here's a thought. If they don't care about canon, why does a super mushroom cause characters to grow? If they didn't give a **** about canon, why doesn't the super mushroom inflict 32% damage and create a stun effect?
Because we are familiar with it. They adhere to that. Smash is a representation of these concepts we know so well. They are not going to bash our expectations by making things radically different than what has been established.
Seeing Pikachu grow when he touches a super mushroom from a completely outside perspective is nonsense. But we know who Pikachu is, and we know what a super mushroom is, and we know what happens when someone uses a super mushroom. That is a set of concepts they will abide by.

 

[Dark Phazon]

This is an even worse comparison than my Fred the Giant one

Hehehe well atleast its main point isnt reguarding canon....

 

[8-peacock-8]

I didn't know Smash is being true to canon. :O

HUUUUUUURRRRRR

 

[CalumG]

My point, right here. Well said.

Here's a thought. If they don't care about canon, why does a super mushroom cause characters to grow? If they didn't give a **** about canon, why doesn't the super mushroom inflict 32% damage and create a stun effect?
Because we are familiar with it. They adhere to that. Smash is a representation of these concepts we know so well. They are not going to bash our expectations by making things radically different than what has been established.

They care about canon - but if Sakurai is anything to go by, he prioritises gameplay over canon. If the characters were canon, Mario would need a Fire Flower to shoot fireballs and he'd start off as a ******. If they cared about canon, Bowser would breathe fire-y torpedos, not a continuous string of fire. If they cared about canon, Pokemon Trainer would be silent, Villager would be too busy being peaceful to get involved in violence of any kind, Olimar would be the size of a fifty-pence piece and so on and so on.

The developers care about consistency, but they care about gameplay too. If they can think of good gameplay mechanics for Ridley, they will not hesitate to compromise one for the other. Nothing is that black-and-white in Smash Bros., I'd have thought people knew that by now.

 

[_R@bid_]

My point, right here. Well said.

Here's a thought. If they don't care about canon, why does a super mushroom cause characters to grow? If they didn't give a **** about canon, why doesn't the super mushroom inflict 32% damage and create a stun effect?

Because there's no reason for it to do so, unlike Ridley, who is very popular and an important character in an important series and so should be playable? They don't care about canon when it interferes with important things like fan demand or gameplay. That's not the same thing as not caring about canon at all.
Edit: Ninja'd

 

[peeup]

I can't believe how little intelligence there is in this thread... How ****ing hard is it for you idiots to understand that Ridley is just too big?

 

[CalumG]

little intelligence

Ridley is just too big?

Not sure if ironic...

 

[8-peacock-8]

I can't believe how little intelligence there is in this thread... How ****ing hard is it for you idiots to understand that Ridley is just too big?

 

[LaniusShrike]

Kraid's shtick is being a "giant boss". Ridley's just a "boss", and bosses are by default big. When Bowser's depicted as a boss, he's huge. When he's playable, he's larger than Mario but a much more reasonable size. Is this because of the in-game, canon magic? No, it's just basic game design.

You're kind of throwing out some really crappy points now...
"If they don't care about canon, why does a super mushroom cause characters to grow? If they didn't give a **** about canon, why doesn't the super mushroom inflict 32% damage and create a stun effect?"

C'mon dude, you're better than that. Whenever someone throws out a really weak argument, it just undermines the entire stance. That goes for both sides-- a lot of really, really dumb things are being said all around.
Makes me glad I unsubscribed from this thread...

 

[peeup]

Guys, it's simple math.

Let's look at Mario. He is not too big, and whadayaknow, he is in Smash.

Now let's look at Ridley. He is too big, and whadayaknow, he is not in Smash.

Get a brain morans.

 

[FlareHabanero]

That's not math, where the hell are the numbers? If you're trying to show us math, then you're already ****ing up so horribly.

 

[Mr Lange]

Kraid's shtick is being a "giant boss". Ridley's just a "boss", and bosses are by default big. When Bowser's depicted as a boss, he's huge. When he's playable, he's larger than Mario but a much more reasonable size. Is this because of the in-game, canon magic? No, it's just basic game design.

You're kind of throwing out some really crappy points now...
"If they don't care about canon, why does a super mushroom cause characters to grow? If they didn't give a **** about canon, why doesn't the super mushroom inflict 32% damage and create a stun effect?"

C'mon dude, you're better than that. Whenever someone throws out a really weak argument, it just undermines the entire stance. That goes for both sides-- a lot of really, really dumb things are being said all around.
Makes me glad I unsubscribed from this thread...

You obviously ignored everything that was brought up concerning Bowser in the last two pages.
That is not a weak argument. It outlines a lot of their decision making process.

They care about canon - but if Sakurai is anything to go by, he prioritises gameplay over canon. If the characters were canon, Mario would need a Fire Flower to shoot fireballs and he'd start off as a ******. If they cared about canon, Bowser would breathe fire-y torpedos, not a continuous string of fire. If they cared about canon, Pokemon Trainer would be silent, Villager would be too busy being peaceful to get involved in violence of any kind, Olimar would be the size of a fifty-pence piece and so on and so on.

The developers care about consistency, but they care about gameplay too. If they can think of good gameplay mechanics for Ridley, they will not hesitate to compromise one for the other. Nothing is that black-and-white in Smash Bros., I'd have thought people knew that by now.

Then none of you should be arguing that "they don't give a **** about canon". That has been a lot of these arguments. And I'm the one who's been trying to explain that matters are not so black and white.
Modifying moves for playability works in cases like Mario and Bowser. It does not defy our expectations of the characters and what they're capable of.
In Ridley's case, he's known for having the strength to chuck tanks like it was nothing, wings powerful enough to overcome a wind tunnel, and giant fireball spams that KO characters very quickly. You could say the same is true for some of the others, but they've made a distinction as of Brawl how those powers apply in battle. He repeatedly ****s with the entire stage, in a manner similar to Kraid. This goes beyond what any of the other bosses even do in Brawl. To make him playable would require insane modifications, WAY more than has been done for any other playable character. Do not count G&W and Rob; they are joke characters.

 

[RODO]

My point, right here. Well said.

Here's a thought. If they don't care about canon, why does a super mushroom cause characters to grow? If they didn't give a **** about canon, why doesn't the super mushroom inflict 32% damage and create a stun effect?
Because we are familiar with it. They adhere to that. Smash is a representation of these concepts we know so well. They are not going to bash our expectations by making things radically different than what has been established.
Seeing Pikachu grow when he touches a super mushroom from a completely outside perspective is nonsense. But we know who Pikachu is, and we know what a super mushroom is, and we know what happens when someone uses a super mushroom. That is a set of concepts they will abide by.

Or the fire flower being more of a flame thrower?? Not everything is canon. They care about the canon but they can change what they want. I'll say this one more time. You are trying to use too much logic here, when logic would dictate that Wii Fit Trainer wouldn't be in the game. With that move Sakurai just showed that he can do what he want, but you keep trying to make these outlines that he is supposed to follow like Ridley can never be smaller than he appears in his games.

 

[peeup]

You probably wouldn't get math anyway.

 

[CalumG]

Guys, it's simple math.

Let's look at Mario. He is not too big, and whadayaknow, he is in Smash.

Now let's look at Ridley. He is too big, and whadayaknow, he is not in Smash.

Get a brain morans.

I'm literally not even sure if you're joking or not because you normally seem like an otherwise-intelligent guy.

 

[peeup]

It's like you guys just want every character that is too big to be in Smash. How about Andross' polygon head? Do you think that is not too big? It's a slippery slope.

 

[BlitznBurst]

You probably wouldn't get math anyway.

I'm honestly not sure if you're trolling or not

 

[Mr Lange]

Or the fire flower being more of a flame thrower?? Not everything is canon. They care about the canon but they can change what they want. I'll say this one more time. You are trying to use too much logic here, when logic would dictate that Wii Fit Trainer wouldn't be in the game. With that move Sakurai just showed that he can do what he want, but you keep trying to make these outlines that he is supposed to follow like Ridley can never be smaller than he appears in his games.

Wii Fit Trainer is not only a joke character, but nothing has been established about her as a character. They had the free reign to make up any **** they wanted to. The same does not apply to Ridley.

It's like you guys just want every character that is too big to be in Smash. How about Andross' polygon head? Do you think that is not too big? It's a slippery slope.

Exactly. Andross head is perfectly viable as a character even though he is known for floating in a void, being 20x larger than Fox, and shooting giant projectiles designed to destroy Arwings.
But size and canon don't matter guys they can make bosses playable just like that if they wanted to and throw all care to the ****ing wind.

 

[RODO]

I can't believe how little intelligence there is in this thread... How ****ing hard is it for you idiots to understand that Ridley is just too big?

Come at me then brah

 

[8-peacock-8]

It's like you guys just want every character that is too big to be in Smash. How about Andross' polygon head? Do you think that is not too big? It's a slippery slope.

i'd main Andross's head.