Important The Ridley for SSB4 Thread - End of an Era

[Deleted member]

Okay-- while we're on the point, what looks natural to you guys?
View attachment 1273

How does this relative size look to you guys? The original Super Metroid Ridley size is the one faded into the back.

Both sizes look natural to me.

 

[Mr Lange]

Holy mother of god... you have no idea how much I want a shotgun wielding Pikachu now... NO IDEA! Maybe... maybe they could bring back Pichu and give him the shotgun?!

That'd be awesome for sure. But it is not going to happen, for obvious reasons.

only you're projecting what you believe onto the devs.

Beliefs based on my continuous observation of said devs and both industry and artistic practices alike. Certain patterns are kept to.

Both sizes look natural to me.

Why does this not surprise me.

 

[Starcutter]

I think what you think the devs are doing is not trying to upset the developers and not the fans. which is wrong, as proven by megaman using the classic design when there were probably more develepors working on the newer designs.

not that there was even any sort of need to prove that mentalty wrong.

 

[LaniusShrike]

Think he can still ensnare the Blue Falcon and yank it to the ground like it was nothing?
If not, then he's not really Ridley is he.

"I'm Captain Falcon and I like to punch galaxies apart."​

​

I get that a lot of people think the only way they can do him justice is by making him a bigger-than-life boss. There are a lot of very valid reasons to keep him as such.

That being said, we think he'd be better as a playable character. We also believe that the Metroid series is woefully underrepresented, and that Ridley is the only worthy character.

So, after 126 pages of discussing and weighing the pros and the cons, we come down on the side of the pros. It's pretty simple.

 

[Deleted member]

The more one tries to think they know how Sakurai thinks, the harder the crash when they realize they don't.

One would think Wii Fit Trainer's reveal shortly after Villager's would have shown people the light.

 

[IsmaR]

Holy mother of god... you have no idea how much I want a shotgun wielding Pikachu now... NO IDEA! Maybe... maybe they could bring back Pichu and give him the shotgun?!

This is the best I could do on such short notice.

Spoiler

Why can't I hold all these likes?

 

[Reznor]

Beliefs based on my continuous observation of said devs and both industry and artistic practices alike. Certain patterns are kept to.

like I have said 2 times already they have changed their minds on things before patterns mean nothing

they straight up said they wouldn't put in an animal crossing rep because it doesn't seem to fit in with smash bros but now we are getting an animal crossing rep the devs can change their minds

 

[Oasis_S]

Beliefs based on my continuous observation of said devs and both industry and artistic practices alike. Certain patterns are kept to.

Whoa man I didn't realize it was like that okay I totally get how profound your experience in this area is now.

 

[Morbi]

like I have said 2 times already they have changed their minds on things before patterns mean nothing

they straight up said they wouldn't put in an animal crossing rep because it doesn't seem to fit in with smash bros but now we are getting an animal crossing rep the devs can change their minds

It is kind of funny. Villager fits in Smash even less thanks to the internet.

Spoiler

 

[Mr Lange]

I think what you think the devs are doing is not trying to upset the developers and not the fans. which is wrong, as proven by megaman using the classic design when there were probably more develepors working on the newer designs.

not that there was even any sort of need to prove that mentalty wrong.

Quite frankly I don't think Capcom, let alone the original artist gives a **** about how Mega Man looks. They've changed his design more times than I can count.
This is less about upsetting the developers and more about maintaining canon. This in part is for the sake of the fans. I honestly can't relate to Metroid fans who want to see Ridley botched so badly. I would expect real Ridley fans to appreciate him as a giant hardcore boss as he has been, not a midgetized nerfed version.

"I'm Captain Falcon and I like to punch galaxies apart."​

​

I get that a lot of people think the only way they can do him justice is by making him a bigger-than-life boss. There are a lot of very valid reasons to keep him as such.

That being said, we think he'd be better as a playable character. We also believe that the Metroid series is woefully underrepresented, and that Ridley is the only worthy character.

So, after 126 pages of discussing and weighing the pros and the cons, we come down on the side of the pros. It's pretty simple.

That there is what you call a final smash (if that were even canon, but that's what it would be). Notice I said Ridley does those things effortlessly. They're practically his standard attacks. He sinks that ship every thirty seconds. When he's not tanking the ship he's launching giant fireballs with high KO potential or blasting the entire stage with gusts of wind. Over and over.

Regarding Villager, he fits as a Smash character. It didn't take much other than creatively implementing his ingame actions and giving them some punch. They didn't have to radically alter anything about him.

 

[Starcutter]

It is kind of funny. Villager fits in Smash even less thanks to the internet.

couldn't you at least put that in a spoiler or something?

 

[Morbi]

couldn't you at least put that in a spoiler or something?

There you go princess. I fixed it just for you.

 

[Oasis_S]

"Ridley is too cool to be put on the same level playing field like every other character including ones with abilities far greater than even his because he's... special for some reason blah blah so you see it all comes down to believability."

 

[Starcutter]

my 500th like on the site was telling someone to put something in a collapse tag. wow, I'm so cool.

 

[Mr Lange]

"Ridley is too big to be put on the same level playing field like every other character including ones with abilities the same or less than his because he doesn't fit as a Smash Bros character for many significant reasons and defying those would challenge all believability."

Fixed.

 

[Deleted member]

You know, Samus is pathetically weak compared to how she is in the series.
If Ridley can do a whole bunch of **** with little effort, then what does that make the one who blows him up on a regular basis?

CLEARLY Samus is too OP to be feasible as a character, and the fact she isn't OP as a playable character at this point is a bloody disgrace.
Samus needs to be cut.

EDIT: Morbid, why are you just sporadically Liking things?


EDIT2: And really, there are quite a few Smash characters that are in canon MORE POWERFUL than Ridley and others that have a bunch of inconsistencies compared to their home series.
So I still have yet to see a decent argument out of this guy.

 

[Oasis_S]

Palutena is a freaking goddess, what does that say about her, lol.

But she looks human so it's okay. Nevermind Mewtwo could crush any opponent without lifting a finger, but hey he was cut so clearly they knew they made a terrible mistake.

 

[Morbi]

You know, Samus is pathetically weak compared to how she is in the series.
If Ridley can do a whole bunch of **** with little effort, then what does that make the one who blows him up on a regular basis?

CLEARLY Samus is too OP to be feasible as a character, and the fact she isn't OP as a playable character at this point is a bloody disgrace.
Samus needs to be cut.

EDIT: Morbid, why are you just sporadically Liking things?

It is kind of my thing. I like to like posts. It is fun. Helps people remember me.

 

[Deleted member]

Palutena is a freaking goddess, what does that say about her, lol.

But she looks human so it's okay. Nevermind Mewtwo could crush any opponent without lifting a finger, but hey he was cut so clearly they knew they made a terrible mistake.

Mewtwo too slow when dealing with Super Sawnik.

Clearly Sonic > Everyone.

 

[Reznor]

It is kind of my thing. I like to like posts. It is fun. Helps people remember me.

its one of the biggest reasons why I remember you

but I remeber you mostly because of Batgirl

 

[Mr Lange]

You know, Samus is pathetically weak compared to how she is in the series.
If Ridley can do a whole bunch of **** with little effort, then what does that make the one who blows him up on a regular basis?

CLEARLY Samus is too OP to be feasible as a character, and the fact she isn't OP as a playable character at this point is a bloody disgrace.
Samus needs to be cut.

Either that or Samus's enemies in Metroid are pathetically weak compared to her. And she only blows up holes in Ridley after very, very tough battles. Ridley is more than capable of destroying Samus, if it weren't for Samus's intelligence and persistence. It takes a lot of freaking shots and quirky strategies to bring down bosses in Metroid, Ridley being no exception.
And the other Smash characters are obviously capable of taking down Ridley too. Point is, Ridley's size and abilities break the game for normal characters, but he is still killable. Ridley himself would translate very poorly to a playable fighter.

 

[Starcutter]

I think this accurately describes most people on this thread:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNZSXnrbs_k

Ridley himself would translate very poorly to a playable fighter.

couldn't that be said about confirmed characters like the villager or wii fit trainer?

 

[Mr Lange]

couldn't that be said about confirmed characters like the villager or wii fit trainer?

Only partially. Not nearly as much as Ridley. It is not that black and white.

 

[LaniusShrike]

I would love to see a thing comparing how well characters would fair against each other with their canon power...
Like, y'know, a video of Ganondorf and Ridley fighting. Gdorf's clearly more powerful, now that I think about it. Still would be an awesome video.

It's kind of a hard thing to actually compare, though. Ridley may be powerful, but Samus regularly beats him. Ganondorf is approaching apotheosis, but every green-clad amateur with a sword is guaranteed to beat him.

 

[Deleted member]

Either that or Samus's enemies in Metroid are pathetically weak compared to her. And she only blows up holes in Ridley after very, very tough battles. Ridley is more than capable of destroying Samus, if it weren't for Samus's intelligence and persistence. It takes a lot of freaking shots and quirky strategies to bring down bosses in Metroid, Ridley being no exception.
And the other Smash characters are obviously capable of taking down Ridley too. Point is, Ridley's size and abilities break the game for normal characters, but he is still killable. Ridley himself would translate very poorly to a playable fighter.

You keep saying words, but they hold no meaning.
Start making decent points that can't be attributed to at least one other character already featured in the series, and I'll start to have reason to take you seriously.

 

[Mr Lange]

I think this accurately describes most people on this thread:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNZSXnrbs_k

I pictured it more like this:

 

[Oasis_S]

Point is, Ridley's size and abilities break the game for normal characters, but he is still killable. Ridley himself would translate very poorly to a playable fighter.

He doesn't really have any special abilities though? He's got the fire breath, sure, but outside of that he's a rather brutish monster. And even Bowser could beat him in an arm wrestling contest, lol.

 

[Morbi]

I would love to see a thing comparing how well characters would fair against each other with their canon power...
Like, y'know, a video of Ganondorf and Ridley fighting. Gdorf's clearly more powerful, now that I think about it. Still would be an awesome video.

It's kind of a hard thing to actually compare, though. Ridley may be powerful, but Samus regularly beats him. Ganondorf is approaching apotheosis, but every green-clad amateur with a sword is guaranteed to beat him.

Mewtwo would probably just blow everyone's brain outward in canon... or twist and crush their bones... or dismember them... yeah... canon is not fun.

 

[Mr Lange]

I would love to see a thing comparing how well characters would fair against each other with their canon power...
Like, y'know, a video of Ganondorf and Ridley fighting. Gdorf's clearly more powerful, now that I think about it. Still would be an awesome video.

It's kind of a hard thing to actually compare, though. Ridley may be powerful, but Samus regularly beats him. Ganondorf is approaching apotheosis, but every green-clad amateur with a sword is guaranteed to beat him.

He's really not that powerful if Link can repeatedly take his energy blasts and still knock him out with a series of sword strikes. In that sense Ganondorf is surprisingly even against most of the other fighters.

Mewtwo would probably just blow everyone's brain outward in canon... or twist and crush their bones... or dismember them... yeah... canon is not fun.

Even though all of the Pokemon featured in Smash Bros can take on Mewtwo and win in their own series. Yes they need to level up, but it is still very possible for them to do. I'm going to guess that the Pokemon in Smash are at quite a high level, especially if you consider that the characters seem to be treated late in their canon (Link is noted for having defeated Ganondorf, or is just about to, and has most of his equipment, etc) so likewise, the Pokemon are probably considered late in their game.

You keep saying words, but they hold no meaning.
Start making decent points that can't be attributed to at least one other character already featured in the series, and I'll start to have reason to take you seriously.

You can't treat things like it is all a fine line. Just because one character is stretched to fit doesn't mean they can mess with the formulas to no end. Once again, everything that applies to Ridley could be applied to Kraid with that kind of logic. They are going to draw lines somewhere and given the details it is not hard to see how and where they're placed.

 

[Deleted member]

He doesn't really have any special abilities though? He's got the fire breath, sure, but outside of that he's a rather brutish monster. And even Bowser could beat him in an arm wrestling contest, lol.

Bowser?

Hell, Wario could just grab him, shake him up, then frigging piledrive him until his spine splits in two. All while telling him to have a rotten day.

With Ridley's bone structure, he's got to be lighter than this tub of lard lizard, who Wario can do the above to.

If Wario was anything like his canon self, he'd be practically invincible.

 

[LaniusShrike]

He's really not that powerful if Link can repeatedly take his energy blasts and still knock him out with a series of sword strikes. In that sense Ganondorf is surprisingly even against most of the other fighters.

You feel comfortable saying this while not saying that Ridley's even against most of the fighters?

(and earlier you mentioned that video of the Falcon punch as being his final smash. I'm pretty sure Captain Falcon's actual final smash is him taking out his car keys and going for a drive, so... my point still stands.)

@Golden
Heck, if Wario was canon to his appearances in most of the Wario Land games, he'd be literally invincible. He'd be like "Oh no, Mr. Ridley, you've blown me away with your plasma breath. Guess that means I'm ON FIRE and FASTER now. Wahahaha!"

 

[Mr Lange]

Bowser?

Hell, Wario could just grab him, shake him up, then frigging piledrive him until his spine splits in two. All while telling him to have a rotten day.

With Ridley's bone structure, he's got to be lighter than this tub of lard lizard, who Wario can do the above to.

If Wario was anything like his canon self, he'd be practically invincible.

Comparing Ridley to the first boss in Wario World, and one of the dumber bosses in the series. Not a good comparison.

You feel comfortable saying this while not saying that Ridley's even against most of the fighters?

(and earlier you mentioned that video of the Falcon punch as being his final smash. I'm pretty sure Captain Falcon's actual final smash is him taking out his car keys and going for a drive, so... my point still stands.)

In other words, if Capt Falcon had that kind of move in the game, it would certainly be a final smash, not a regular move he can dish out all the time. In that video clip it was a last ditch effort and, if I remember right, it nearly killed him.
Ridley is even in the sense that the cast can take him on. The way Ridley is designed in the game is counter to everything that defines a playable character. To redact these design choices would not only be unorthodox but it would undermine everything that makes Ridley who he is.

 

[Deleted member]

You can't treat things like it is all a fine line. Just because one character is stretched to fit doesn't mean they can mess with the formulas to no end. Once again, everything that applies to Ridley could be applied to Kraid with that kind of logic. They are going to draw lines somewhere and given the details it is not hard to see how and where they're placed.

Stop running to Kraid as your backup plan.
I already explained why Kraid is a piss poor example, and it has nothing to do with his structure.
When Kraid has equal credentials to Ridley, THEN you may cower behind him.


So again, saying words but holding no meaning. Especially since Smash is defined by stretching characters to fit. So magically, because the character in question is Ridley, **** gets serious.

Comparing Ridley to the first boss in Wario World, and one of the dumber bosses in the series. Not a good comparison.

Pretty sure that "dumber" boss is both bigger and heavier than Ridley.
So by logic (which you seem to want to exert), Wario would have an easier time taking down Ridley than he would Dinomighty.

I mean, what's Ridley going to do? Light him on fire? Oh look, we got Flaming Wario now. Rip him to shreds? Can't.
Crush him? Flat Wario.
Eat him? Ridley dies of internal poisoning, and Wario sickeningly crawls out of Ridley's anal crater, ready to go treasure hunting another day.


Quit being an idiot.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

My reaction to several posts on this page: then then and then finally .

Again, I will pose my question, which no one has been able to answer.

If Ridley's only option of defeating Samus was to shrink to relatively her size (AS HE HAS APPEARED BEFORE MIGHT I ADD), don't you think that this bloodthirsty son of a mother loving dragon would take the opportunity to defeat his mortal enemy?

Not to mention, what does decreasing his size do anyway? Defeat the purpose of his character? I guess increasing Olimar's size does nothing to mess with the theme of him being incredibly tiny to the environment around him which is meant to be EARTH. Or that Bowser has been resized on so many occasions. SO. ****ING. MANY.

Okay. So Ridley is fairly larger than Samus in several games that they both appear in. We get that. But, what you're saying is, they can't decrease his "in game" height a bit to even the playing field?

Well, if that doesn't work, then I propose that we just increase everyone else's size to incorporate Ridley then!

 

[Oasis_S]

Comparing Ridley to the first boss in Wario World, and one of the dumber bosses in the series. Not a good comparison.

Are you saying Ridley is too cool.

 

[Starcutter]

Comparing Ridley to the first boss in Wario World, and one of the dumber bosses in the series. Not a good comparison.

because it proves a point?

 

[Anomilus]

O But because they are sharing Pikachu with us, not alternate-universe-shotgun-toting-Pikachu. There is an established Pikachu and for the most part they're going to stick to it.

lol k

...

*Gives Pikachu a Ray Gun and shoots Mario to death*

...Huh...

 

[Mr Lange]

Stop running to Kraid as your backup plan.
I already explained why Kraid is a piss poor example, and it has nothing to do with his structure.
When Kraid has equal credentials to Ridley, THEN you may cower behind him.
So again, saying words but holding no meaning. Especially since Smash is defined by stretching characters to fit. So magically, because the character in question is Ridley, **** gets serious.

You ignored my response earlier. What if Kraid had been as big an influence as Ridley? Does that mean he should be a character? How realistic do you honestly think it would be that they would do that? It wouldn't even be Kraid anymore if they did. That point applies to Ridley. Turning Ridley into a playable character makes him not Ridley. It makes him weird distorted nerfed looks-kinda-like Ridley.
Once again, Smash stretches characters to a reasonable, believable extent. They won't forcibly adapt the unadaptable. Olimar fits as a character. So does Villager. Frankly I'd say Wii Fit Trainer is the biggest stretch they've made so far, but it is still a far cry from how far they'd have to stretch Ridley to make him playable.

 

[Morbi]

Even though all of the Pokemon featured in Smash Bros can take on Mewtwo and win in their own series. Yes they need to level up, but it is still very possible for them to do. I'm going to guess that the Pokemon in Smash are at quite a high level, especially if you consider that the characters seem to be treated late in their canon (Link is noted for having defeated Ganondorf, or is just about to, and has most of his equipment, etc) so likewise, the Pokemon are probably considered late in their game.

Here is the thing though... this is why arguing canon within series like this is a WASTE OF TIME.

Mewtwo spawns at Level 70... that is more than enough to destroy any and every Pokemon in Smash. Based on the games canon Pokemon cannot level up on their own, or Pokemon never level up to the extent of legendaries like Mewtwo does in the wild. Who knows? Anyways... Mewtwo's starting attacks and base stats are enough to take on Pikachu, Squirtle, Ivysaur, Charizard, Pichu, Jigglypuff, and Lucario. In the anime/manga he is regarded as one of the most powerful Pokemon.

So no... in canon no Pokemon in Smash can defeat Mewtwo. The only canon they can is in the game... if you are level 100. This is only one out of 3 canons.

My point is that arguing about canon is like arguing over who would win in a hypothetical Smash match... Mario or Link? I guess the one that is being controlled by a better player... BECAUSE IT IS A GOD DAMNED VIDEO GAME!!!!

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

You ignored my response earlier. What if Kraid had been as big an influence as Ridley? Does that mean he should be a character? How realistic do you honestly think it would be that they would do that? It wouldn't even be Kraid anymore if they did. That point applies to Ridley. Turning Ridley into a playable character makes him not Ridley. It makes him weird distorted nerfed looks-kinda-like Ridley.
Once again, Smash stretches characters to a reasonable, believable extent. They won't forcibly adapt the unadaptable. Olimar fits as a character. So does Villager. Frankly I'd say Wii Fit Trainer is the biggest stretch they've made so far, but it is still a far cry from how far they'd have to stretch Ridley to make him playable.

See, what if scenarios don't really count for anything, as they just don't exist.

Throwing this out there, the canon arguments are also bullcrap, because let's face it. It's a video game. Sakurai can do what he wants. If he wants Pikachu to fight Mewtwo, he can have Pikachu fight Mewtwo.

That's like saying, "Mario and Luigi are brothers in canon. They shouldn't fight each other!" Who gives a f***?