The Post-Ultimate Mega Smash Poll -The 1,010 Vote Result Bonanza!

[Louie G.]

I'm curious, who would you have picked for an F-Zero character?

I wish Samurai Goroh got more love in the community, I think he’d be a lot of fun.

Won’t argue with the genuine Black Shadow supporters, I don’t mind him myself but his rise to the top is definitely influenced by the years that the idea of thrusting Falcondorf onto him has been peddled. F-Zero has such a wildly dynamic cast it’s kind of disappointing the conversation begins and ends there for many.

 

[Opossum]

I wish Samurai Goroh got more love in the community, I think he’d be a lot of fun.

Won’t argue with the genuine Black Shadow supporters, I don’t mind him myself but his rise to the top is definitely influenced by the years that the idea of thrusting Falcondorf onto him has been peddled. F-Zero has such a wildly dynamic cast it’s kind of disappointing the conversation begins and ends there for many.

As someone who would absolutely pick Samurai Goroh it's so sad how much he's fallen through the ranks since the post-Brawl era.

Thinking back to 2011 when it was only like six or seven years since his last fully new game instead of how it is now.

 

[Guynamednelson]

As someone who would absolutely pick Samurai Goroh it's so sad how much he's fallen through the ranks since the post-Brawl era.

Thinking back to 2011 when it was only like six or seven years since his last fully new game instead of how it is now.

Well if you consider 99 to be F-Zero being revived, Goroh is in the new F-Zero but not Black Shadow, so there's...that, I guess.

And it's based off the original game, so therefore Goroh's vehicle is the best one.

 

[JCKirbs]

I excepted Bandana Dee to do very well in the Kirby category, who didn't? But him taking the top spot of the entire poll speaks almost monumental volumes to me. I can't help keeping in mind that this poll represents a miniscule amount players who are interested in the series, while feeling like it's enough to comfortably vouch for characters that have a notable stake of popularity in the overall community. Currently though, I'm kinda just relishing in the fact that my favorite character and second-most wanted character (Dixie) are as high as they are at the moment. At the same time, I'm not entirely surprised at all, seeing that they either fall into the categories of "I want this character" and/or "This character makes sense" for a lot of people, with them often being seen as, say, harmless, complementary characters alongside what would be others' personal most wanted characters.

It's a really nice feeling.

 

[Zerp]

Just wanna say I really appreciate the poll, data like this is always so fascinating to look at.

 

[smashkirby]

Spoiler: Donkey Kong

Dixie Kong - 333
Funky Kong - 298
Cranky Kong - 196
Lanky Kong - 84
Chunky Kong - 61

Dixie Kong was the number one choice for the far majority of the poll. I always knew she was popular, but I never expected Dixie to be in contention for the most popular first party character, let alone beat Waluigi. And if Dixie Kong surprised me, I certainly wasn’t ready for Funky Kong to do this well. I feel the format of the poll really helped him. Funky Kong may not be many people’s favorite, but everybody seems to like him. That’s the most Funky Kong thing of all.

Spoiler: Kirby

Bandana Waddle Dee - 349
Magolor - 202
Marx - 166
Adeleine - 165
Galatca Knight - 145

Bandana Waddle Dee is the most popular Kirby choice by far! In fact, he overtook Dixie Kong as the most popular Nintendo character on the poll! To make things even more dominant, Waddle Dee (without the Bandana) scored 83 points. The other members of the top five did really well too, scoring a lot of votes. Most franchises would love a top five with this many votes. Marx was kind of a late bloomer, not rising to third place until the poll hit twitter. He was fifth for a while. As always, I will be shocked at how popular Adeleine is, considering how small her role is. Her cuteness helps I guess.

I know it's pretty biased on my part to say this, but I don't think I can properly describe the utterly JOY in my heart to see that Bandana Waddle Dee (of all characters) is currently THE most-wanted first party character, beating out folks like Waluigi and the like (at the moment, at least), no shade to him and his supporters, of course.

For that matter, to hear that the average Waddle Dee (of all mooks) got a NOTABLE amount of votes is sending me (in a REALLY good way).

Honestly, it's a bonus in my eyes to see that BOTH of my most-wanted first-parties are the TOP TWO most-wanted first-parties overall (B.W.D. and Dixie Kong, BTW).

Spoiler: R.O.B.

Professor Hector - 96

Okay so I wrote a whole snarky paragraph about how Professor Hector was the only actual character to include.

I have since realized that was wrong. Professor Vector is Hector's clone, just with a different palette swap. And well, there's Smick, I guess. You can view this as no contest, if you like, but honestly, none of them would have done particularly well.

Guess it wouldn't hurt to admit here that I unironically voted for Professor Hector here. For what it's worth, I genuinely believe that you could do something interesting with him, either having him fight on foot, serving as Smash Bros.'s answer to Dr. Bosconovitch from the Tekken games somehow OR (and this is my preferred option, for what it's worth) having Professor Hector fight in a R.O.B.-like mech of sorts.

Personally, I don't think Professor Hector utilizing the latter concept would overlap with Bowser Jr. and the Koopalings all THAT much, if nothing else.

For the record, I WAS wondering if you ever did get around to adding Professor Vector to the poll later on, but I guess not? Also, I don't know if you're aware, but in terms of "R.O.B. canon"? Vector is actually Hector's assistant. I mean, you're right in that he's just a palette swap of Hector in-game. I don't know why, but seeing you refer to him as a 'clone' made me feel like I should clear up any potential misconceptions, I don't know.

For what it's worth, I figure Professor Vector would just be an Alph-styled alt. skin for Professor Hector in the end anyways, but if Sakurai and the team can ACTUALLY come up with something to make the two stand out from each other??

Well, color me a believer that Sakurai truly CAN make a moveset out of ANY character.

Spoiler: New Franchises

I know this is a top five image, but I had to talk about the top ten.

Isaac - 261
Chibi-Robo - 199
Andy - 174
Starfy - 146
Ayumi - 143
Officer Howard - 142
Chorus Kids - 140
Karate Joe - 138
Takamaru / Wonder Red 134
Euden - 132

This one is full of surprises. Isaac was never really in fear of losing his dominant lead. Chibi-Robo was a shock. It’s a pretty clear sign that we reached the hardcore audience because I doubt he’d do this well without it (Chibi-Robo had terrible sales. RIP). Andy and Ayumi being this high due to their revivals makes sense, although I wonder if they will keep their popularity. Starfy surprised everyone by being this high. Officer Howard is the most recent character on this list. Rhythm Heaven did very well with not one, but two characters in the top ten. And let me tell you, people who wanted Karate Joe did not always vote for Chorus Kids (and vice versa). Takamaru and Wonder Red tied. There was some debate on whether The Wonderful 101 still counted as a Nintendo IP, but we decided to count it.

But Euden though…. There’s a funny story about Euden. I initially forgot Euden existed. I forgot Dragalia Lost existed as a whole. I did manage to include him early in the poll’s lifespan but he never gained a lot of traction. Then this poll found its way into the Dragalia Lost fandom. Oh boy did it take off. I can see the moment the Dragalia fandom got a hold of the poll because he started rising super fast. They voted for other characters too, so it's all good in my book. I just find it funny.

Some other characters who are close to this top ten include Mach Rider, Ring Fit Trainee, Dillon, Saki Amamiya and Sukapon. After those five there’s a bit of a drop off. I’m surprised that Ring Fit Trainee isn’t in the top ten, but I guess that’s the nature of being a fitness game.

If you don't mind, I've got a couple of questions regarding THIS poll.

May I ask how the following characters did on the poll?
Namely... Lark (Pilotwings), Yuka (Rhythm Heaven), Ray (Custom Robo), Lip (Panel de Pon), Ryota Hayami (Wave Race), Akari Hayami (1080), A Style Savvy character. I mean, I doubt any of these guys did THAT great, I'm just curious, is all.

I suggested a few characters myself. Namely, Jonathan Raimi (Geist), Mr. Stevenson (Gumshoe), Sayaka Amemiya (Ouendan), Starr (Elite Beat Agents), and (I think?) Alice (Balloon Kid). Did you ever add them to the poll at any point, or might they be added in another poll?

Spoiler: Game & Watch and Duck Hunt

View attachment 393635
View attachment 393636

Well, what can I say? When you craft a character that seems to embody every aspect of their home franchise, people don’t really want any more. Mr. Game & Watch and Duck Hunt leave no real characters left to include. They do such a good job fulfilling a need that there’s nothing left. People don’t want anymore characters from the franchise and that’s fine.

For Game and Watch series I always imagined a Ms. Game and Watch echo in the same vein as Ms. Pac-Man, that would use other moves from the Game and Watch games. Mr. Game and Watch is an amalgamation character already so it wouldn't be that far a stretch.

I say this with NO sense of irony, I was legit thinking about Smash Bros. possibly giving us a "M(r)s. Game & Watch as a second Game & Watch rep.

As for Duck Hunt.... yeah, I've got nothing. The dog and duck as SEPARATE characters? I don't know.

I excepted Bandana Dee to do very well in the Kirby category, who didn't? But him taking the top spot of the entire poll speaks almost monumental volumes to me. I can't help keeping in mind that this poll represents a miniscule amount players who are interested in the series, while feeling like it's enough to comfortably vouch for characters that have a notable stake of popularity in the overall community. Currently though, I'm kinda just relishing in the fact that my favorite character and second-most wanted character (Dixie) are as high as they are at the moment. At the same time, I'm not entirely surprised at all, seeing that they either fall into the categories of "I want this character" and/or "This character makes sense" for a lot of people, with them often being seen as, say, harmless, complementary characters alongside what would be others' personal most wanted characters.

It's a really nice feeling.

Literally summed up my EXACT feelings on this poll right now.

Including the fact of Bandana Waddle Dee AND Dixie Kong in particular being the top 2 most wanted first-parties/"first-parties that folks would be more than cool with".

 

[chocolatejr9]

Ironically, for both Game & Watch and Duck Hunt, I have seen some Smash splash art for the G&W Wolf and the Wild Gunman or whatever he's called (Hogan's Alley and Wild Gunman are considered part of Duck Hunt in Smash, if I remember correctly), so MAYBE they could be up for consideration? Not too sure how much I'd buy it, though: both seem kinda stretchy, even with Ice Climber having three options to its name.

 

[shrooby]

I was really hoping to create another “Elite Four” like people did with the Smash 4 days

Truly, the more things change, the more they stay the same.

Spoiler

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Wow. Those two reddits are putting in work. We've jumped 100 votes since this morning and I'm only gonna post in more reddits.

The Star Fox Reddit has agreed to our poll.

Out of curiosity, how many did Pauline and Toadette get? Feel like we miss some info for some of the bigger franchises like Mario since there are so many candidates.

They're 8th and 9th respectively.

Right now, Pauline has 122 and Toadette has 121.

amd surprised at the Fire Emblem line-up

What surprised you?

Namely... Lark (Pilotwings), Yuka (Rhythm Heaven), Ray (Custom Robo), Lip (Panel de Pon), Ryota Hayami (Wave Race), Akari Hayami (1080), A Style Savvy character.

As of 560...
Lark - 25
Yuka - 71
Ray - 82
Lip - 90
Ryota Hayami - 20
Akari Hayami - 24
Style Savvy - 47

Namely, Jonathan Raimi (Geist), Mr. Stevenson (Gumshoe), Sayaka Amemiya (Ouendan), Starr (Elite Beat Agents), and (I think?) Alice (Balloon Kid). Did you ever add them to the poll at any point, or might they be added in another poll?

I did add Geist and Gumshoe. Perhaps I should add Balloon Kid.

Truly, the more things change, the more they stay the same.

Spoiler

View attachment 393660

Omigosh, Shrooby. Hiiiiiiiii

 

[shrooby]

Omigosh, Shrooby. Hiiiiiiiii

Hi Swamp hope you've been well~ Kamek should've been counted as a Yoshi character~

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Kamek should've been counted as a Yoshi character~

I'm going with what Smash said....

 

[EarlTamm]

Wow. Those two reddits are putting in work. We've jumped 100 votes since this morning and I'm only gonna post in more reddits.

The Star Fox Reddit has agreed to our poll.

I feel like as long as the poll gets spread about a little bit more, it will get to 1000 votes. Curious what other Reddit servers may be included, as I am guessing that most of the options are the smaller communities(I recall the mention that some of the bigger Reddit servers have banned polls like this from being brought up).

 

[smashkirby]

As of 560...
Lark - 25
Yuka - 71
Ray - 82
Lip - 90
Ryota Hayami - 20
Akari Hayami - 24
Style Savvy - 47

You know... I know that EVERYONE (even folks like Melissa Bergman) at least A vote, but for as obscure as Lark is? It legit does my heart some good to see that he at least got into the double-digits of folks who'd be cool with seeing him join Smash Bros.

In addition to Lark, thanks for these results! If I may also ask, does this mean that Yuka did pretty... well, poorly within Rhythm Heaven's group, relatively speaking?

I did add Geist and Gumshoe. Perhaps I should add Balloon Kid.

Really? Cool!

As for Balloon Kid... well, personally? I consider Alice to be enough of her OWN character, that it'd be legit interesting to see what people would think about HER joining Smash Bros.

By the way, I guess this means Sayaka and Starr won't be happening for the poll, huh? Out of curiosity, would you be looking at them as alt. skins of their respective characters (Ryuta Ippongi and Agent J, respectively)?

 

[WeirdChillFever]

What surprised you?

I expected Anna and Alear to place higher than Tiki and Black Knight. Anna especially is usually touted as the “non-sword FE option“ so I expected her to be a clear frontrunner with Lyn.

 

[Johnknight1]

snip the entire post because it is long

I don't really see any of these results as particularly shocking. It all makes a lot of sense. The top 5 really encapsulates the general mindset of Smash fans between Smash games. A lot of secondary characters, but now with the vast amount of playable Nintendo characters counting clones / Echoes / alternate characters is about 80 characters, it is predominately a franchises' 3rd, 4th or 5th most important character. And that is what we see in the top 5.

That is a lot of these characters now, because a bulk of the biggest Nintendo franchises maintain the same characters.

In addition to this, many highly ranked characters are Assist Trophy characters or have prominent roles (IE: part of an attack or a stage background character). And most importantly, all 5 of these characters have had long-running support.

There are 3 interesting developments alongside this:
1. The popularity and conversation around clones has changed. "Echo Fighters" was a brilliant way of best defining the frugal time and cost approach of adding slightly altered characters or alternate model characters. The Smash fanbase has clearly largely openly accepted the term and idea, and as a result accepted those concepts and more traditional clones now more than ever. All of the top 5 characters except Funky Kong easily fit into that category, and even Funky Kong would likely borrow a lot of Donkey Kong's assets.

Going down the list, Krystal, Octoling, Raven Beak, Tom Nook, Impa, Sylux and Toad (maybe Captain Toad) might all fit into the category of Echo Fighters, clone characters, or probably at least characters with many borrowed properties ala Isabelle compared to Villager. And I think that is smart all-around.

2. The amount of stars from "new" franchises without playable characters is smaller. Isaac, Chibi-Rob and Andy are the only names on the Top 30. Most of us would agree Paper Mario probably fits in there. Captain Toad is sort of a grey zone since Captain Toad both stars in a spin-off and appears in Mario games mainline and spin-off since Galaxy 1.

I argue that Noah/Mio from Xenoblades 3 and Lyn from Fire Emblem 7 should count in this category too, since those franchises do a new plot with new characters every entry. Unsure where the public consensus is on that.

3. The lack of a "Pokémon lead. The golden example of this is Lucario pre-Brawl. Pokémon "for Smash" hype does not really develop the "hype cycle" of an announcement of an announcement of a Smash game historically. That and timing play a huge role in which Pokémon we get. It definitely played a role for Jigglypuff, Mewtwo, Greninja and Incineroar getting added into Smash.

This has a big role in Smash never getting a Generation 3, 5, 8 and probably 9 playable Pokémon. Whatever the big Generation 10 Pokémon (singular or plural) is... expect mega hype. Because Pokémon is still the most valuable IP ever.

 

[fogbadge]

Bit of a random question but were the votes anonymous?

 

[Johnknight1]

In regards to my personal picks...

1. I picked a lot of clone characters. This included versions of Link (would be neat to have Ocarina of Time Link and Twilight Princess Link return as Echo Fighters), Black Shadow, Blood Falcon (for both of these... play PMEX! They got sick movesets!), Sylux (still unsure if clone potential), EMMI (I think the scary robot could be something of a clone), Toad (Make Toad SMB2 Toad but modern), Tom Nook (I think he would be a summon character to be honest), and Bandanna Waddle Dee (still don't care about the character, but the PMEX moveset is sick so sign me up!).

I want a musical character. I have no idea how it would function. I specifically prefer KK Slider (just a cool dog) or the Chorus Men because I like more multi-character characters.

I voted for Alear just because Fire Emblem Fates has an awesome gameplay gimmick that I feel Alear would properly utilize.

I still want Paper Mario, Isaac, Andy, but I am not exactly on fire for them.

I still really want Beast/Pig Ganon but I would rather have Demon King Ganondorf. My clear #2 most wanted potential Nintendo newcomers coming out of Ultimate.

My clear #1 most wanted Nintendo potential newcomers is all 6 of the Xenoblade Chronicles 3 protagonists. Love that game. I would love all 6 to work together in some way if possible with the stance switches and all the elements on those characters.

Lastly I also voted for a lot of Pokémon. I think if the next game is something like a "Smash Ultimate but a bigger forever game" like a DOTA 1 to DOTA 2 jump.... and with releases every couple of months with new characters, stages, costumes, music, content, ETC... that would be stellar. And I think that would remove the excuse for limitations on Pokémon, because my goodness... there is so much possibility!

• Blaziken in Smash writes itself. Amazing in PMEX for anyone who has not tried.
• Zoroark is actually an amazing pick thinking about it over a decade later. The Hisuian form introduced in Legends Arceus is so perfect for Smash.
• Generation 8 and 9 have so many sick Pokémon. Tinkerton is a huge standout to me, but all the starter final evolutions I think can work too.
• Can we talk about how God tier both OG and Hisuian Decidueye is from Gen 7? Best Grass Pokémon ever.
• Reverse Pokémon Trainer (IE: Charmander, Wartortle and Venasaur) as frugal clone additions to make a lot of people happen. Could even complete the set (Bulbasaur, Charmeleon, Blastoise) for the heck of it too.
• Mew, Raichu, Alolan Raichu as Echo Fighters or clones. Maybe even a few semi-clone ideas.
• Even popular old Pokémon that could be CRAZY like Gengar, Sceptile, Deoxys, Rayquaza and especially Eevee / Eeveelutions could get a shot.
• -Never happening but I will kill for Infernape. Best Fire Starter.

That would all print money.

These conversations on wants now with all the characters Ultimate pulled limits the character pool from Nintendo to very niche picks. The only open wilderness is Pokémon, because several dozen of them are always relevant.

Overall Nintendo character pools in Smash are so tame now, which while not as exciting in the past, is much more chill... and lets you appreciate what we have more in the games and in some awesome mods.

3rd party characters though... that is the great wilderness... and likely where all the craziness, toxicity, focus and hype will be located!

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Bit of a random question but were the votes anonymous?

Yes they were.

 

[Johnknight1]

Who doesn’t want to play as Tom Nook and drop a couch on someone.

Or smack them with a bag of bells.

I just want Tom Nook to physically cripple Sephiroth with massive debt. Go full landlord sick mode on these edgelords so they can experience true adulthood pain.

I'm sorry, but PMEX Remix has shown me the light. Or should that be the darkness? Either way...it's forced to make Black Shadow be something other than Falcondorf Dumping Ground because Ganondorf's moveset in PM is still mostly based on Falcon's.

Agreed. PMEX Black Shadow and Blood Falcon are so cool, and really highlight what a Falcon clone moveset can do without being tied down to Ganondorf. Having a Juggernaut-like version of that sounds awesome.

In the situation we get a similar upgrade from Ultimate to Smash 7 as we did from Smash 4 to Ultimate, I would hope for this:
-Ganondorf becomes magical and sword-based and kind of a trickster with some different physical attributes.
-Black Shadow as the new Ganondorf, like PMEX. Give Black Shadow that Melee Ganondorf build, but with more speed, quickness and offensive potency and versatility (relative to the game). This would bring classic Ganondorf and Captain Falcon features back, and would be a neat way of dipping into some of the best of Melee.
-Maybe Blood Falcon as a Captain Falcon Echo Fighter, because three Falcons for the price of 1 sounds awesome. This gets us a modern heavy Captain Falcon.
-Unlikely, but my dream of also getting Demon King Ganondorf to bring some Tears to this Kingdom.

As someone who would absolutely pick Samurai Goroh it's so sad how much he's fallen through the ranks since the post-Brawl era.

Thinking back to 2011 when it was only like six or seven years since his last fully new game instead of how it is now.

F-Zero GX is now over 21 years old. F-Zero GX is older than a hefty percentage of Smash fans now.... just like us!

I expected Anna and Alear to place higher than Tiki and Black Knight. Anna especially is usually touted as the “non-sword FE option“ so I expected her to be a clear frontrunner with Lyn.

Anna had hype in like 2014. That was a decade ago. That hype has died slowly over time. Fire Emblem having 90% a new cast every game is Anna's biggest road. Characters like Edelgard have come and taken away popularity from Anna and overshadowed Anna, while Tiki has probably also done the same.

Alear is definitely going to do the same if Alear is not playable in the next Smash game.

Among the older Fire Emblem characters that were never playable in Smash, Lyn will always be the frontrunner. Being the Western standout from the first Western Fire Emblem game, an Assist Trophy character, having that unique long sword, and being in that leaked Project M development build secured that spot for Lyn.

Lyn will probably always be the most popular character pick among the non-playable Fire Emblem cast unless there is a "hype" Fire Emblem pick as a result of these factors.

 

[fogbadge]

Yes they were.

good to know. I have however forgotten my reason for asking

 

[shrooby]

I'm going with what Smash said....

I have read and understood your argument, and I arbitrarily reject it

 

[Gorgonzales]

I think all of the Rhythm Heaven characters should've been combined into a single "Rhythm Heaven Character" choice. It's kind of a weird case where there isn't really a since face for the franchise that people would unanimously agree upon, so that'd really dilute their vote count.

Alternatively RH could've had it's own section where people could choose if they do or don't want an RH rep, and from there choose the exact reps they'd most want.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I think all of the Rhythm Heaven characters should've been combined into a single "Rhythm Heaven Character" choice. It's kind of a weird case where there isn't really a since face for the franchise that people would unanimously agree upon, so that'd really dilute their vote count.

Alternatively RH could've had it's own section where people could choose if they do or don't want an RH rep, and from there choose the exact reps they'd most want.

If I did that for Rhythm Heaven, I'd probably have to do that with every new franchise.

This way we can figure out that Karate Joe and Chorus Kids are some of the more popular choices.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

I think all of the Rhythm Heaven characters should've been combined into a single "Rhythm Heaven Character" choice. It's kind of a weird case where there isn't really a since face for the franchise that people would unanimously agree upon, so that'd really dilute their vote count.

Alternatively RH could've had it's own section where people could choose if they do or don't want an RH rep, and from there choose the exact reps they'd most want.

The point of this is to see which character or characters people want to see.

Combining votes by series defeats the entire purpose.

 

[Gorgonzales]

If I did that for Rhythm Heaven, I'd probably have to do that with every new franchise.

This way we can figure out that Karate Joe and Chorus Kids are some of the more popular choices.

The point of this is to see which character or characters people want to see.

Combining votes by series defeats the entire purpose.

Mm. fair enough

 

[Guynamednelson]

Alolan Raichu as Echo Fighters

I wish at least one electric rodent was an echo, but I can't see this, Pikachu's animations really don't fit A-Raichu's characterization. I don't think it even has a tendency to stand/run on all fours like the rest of the electric rodents do.

 

[ShotoStar]

I think the way this poll was handled was valuable. It demonstrates more who everyone is chill with, not so much who has the strongest most dedicated fanbase but the agreeable characters that would put a smile on everyone’s faces. We actually don’t have a lot of reference for this otherwise. We can speculate on who is fairly uncontroversial - it’s no surprise to see characters like Dixie Kong or Isaac rank highly - but I think the moderate “I can get behind that” support is just as worthy of being emphasized as the diehard votes where you only have like three of them.

I spoke of this in the roster thread, but look at Geno. On a normal poll he’s easily taking Top 10-15 because his supporters are dedicated and somewhat exclusive in their ambition. But at large, does this go beyond that toward casual support? This poll implies… maybe not. And I don’t mean to single out Geno specifically, but it’s a good example of how this works and the way this dichotomy of data is neat to be able to size up.

I think vocal niche support can be effective. There’s a reality where fan support gets Geno into Smash despite being less widely beloved, and neglects Funky Kong despite being overall well appreciated. So I don’t think this poll conveys which characters will necessarily be those big loud fan favorites discussed next game, but I’m happy we get to shed light on the margin support bases that might be more agreeable than we first thought.

I do agree that the format of the poll resulted in some oddballs. The misunderstanding with Prof Hector and Polar Bear seems pretty clear… even if I for one think the Polar Bear kinda rocks. But I think these cases are pretty obvious outliers where there otherwise aren’t many. Sure, it probably did motivate a handful of people to vote for characters like Tom Nook or Raven Beak just to fill in the blanks. But enough to propel them to the Top 10? I think it’s safe to say these choices are just organically popular.

Although in another draft of this poll, perhaps the “N/A” selectable option right at the top of the list would be valuable. Just to make it even more abundantly obvious to some voters that they can pass if they’d like.

Honestly, I think your argument here changed my mind on the poll. At first I was a bit critical of how it was handled -- like how it didn't have a lot of votes overall, how it could be appealing to margins and specific circles but I genuinely think I might be wrong after reading your argument here. I think it's a fascinating poll to host from the perspective not of "who is the most likely or most heavily pushed for" characters but the "who is most generally agreed upon and least divisive choices to be added". As you said, there's a difference between a smaller but more vocal community coalescing around a character and a character being generally agreed upon to being a worthy addition. I think that's rather interesting and I could see how it'd help someone like Toad over Geno for example. Very interesting and I do agree about the oddballs too, I don't think they harm much at all. It's funny to see what oddballs people would choose if given the option and characters like Tom Nook (or in my personal case) Bulborb are characters I just really like and voted on a sincere basis

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I was a bit critical of how it was handled -- like how it didn't have a lot of votes overall,

I will say this criticism is being addressed right now, lol. We're getting a ton of new votes. We got two more subreddits who agreed to the poll today (Earthbound and Kirby) and since the results dropped, we've grown by 100 votes in a day.

We're growing at an incredible rate. Remember, this was the 500 vote checkpoint. Not the end.

 

[Gorgonzales]

I will say this criticism is being addressed right now, lol. We're getting a ton of new votes. We got two more subreddits who agreed to the poll today (Earthbound and Kirby) and since the results dropped, we've grown by 100 votes in a day.

We're growing at an incredible rate. Remember, this was the 500 vote checkpoint. Not the end.

Send an appeal to r/smashbros to get them to stop being such squares. I think the poll would get a lot of traction there.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Send an appeal to r/smashbros to get them to stop being such squares. I think the poll would get a lot of traction there.

I did.

They haven't responded.

 

[Gorgonzales]

I did.

They haven't responded.

Ah well. At least you did your part.

 

[NintenRob]

Pleased to see Skull Kid top the Zelda characters and Bandana Dee top the whole thing as a whole. I wonder how results will change as more votes come in

 

[RodNutTakin]

I wonder if it would've bypassed the "no poll" rule if you had worded/formatted this as a survey.
'Cause truth be told, that's kind of what this is.

 

[NintenRob]

Nah, some sub Reddits are just that strict. Like, I doubt you'd be able to post this to the Zelda Subreddit either. But alternatives exist, like Zeldamemes for example

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Nah, some sub Reddits are just that strict. Like, I doubt you'd be able to post this to the Zelda Subreddit either. But alternatives exist, like Zeldamemes for example

Funny you mention that.

I've been ignored by some subreddits, but Zelda was the only one to politely say "no thank you."

Kudos to them I guess.

I wonder if it would've bypassed the "no poll" rule if you had worded/formatted this as a survey.
'Cause truth be told, that's kind of what this is.

The big issue is that it's a Google Forms. RIP

 

[Johnknight1]

Honestly, I think your argument here changed my mind on the poll. At first I was a bit critical of how it was handled -- like how it didn't have a lot of votes overall, how it could be appealing to margins and specific circles but I genuinely think I might be wrong after reading your argument here. I think it's a fascinating poll to host from the perspective not of "who is the most likely or most heavily pushed for" characters but the "who is most generally agreed upon and least divisive choices to be added". As you said, there's a difference between a smaller but more vocal community coalescing around a character and a character being generally agreed upon to being a worthy addition. I think that's rather interesting and I could see how it'd help someone like Toad over Geno for example. Very interesting and I do agree about the oddballs too, I don't think they harm much at all. It's funny to see what oddballs people would choose if given the option and characters like Tom Nook (or in my personal case) Bulborb are characters I just really like and voted on a sincere basis

There are a lot of factors in Toad vs. Geno that I think uplift Toad and bury Geno

1. Toad can be a clone, Geno cannot

Clones used to be a hateddddddd concept in these discussions. Now, Smash fans realize they are more frugal to add in terms of time, money and resources. They are not competing for other spots, they are more cool bonus characters.

A lot of clone-ish characters fall this way, which again, I think is working in the favor of Toad, Bandanna Waddle Dee, Dixie Kong, ETC. And if any of these characters were added, that would soften the blow of people wanting another character because these characters fall somewhere on the clone spectrum, and thus required less to create.


2. Geno's moveset is hard to conceptualize, Toad is not.

Geno is hard to conceptualize a moveset and skillset in a way that is interesting and cohesive in Smash. Geno also only has one game to be drawn from.

I think the PMEX Geno is one of the weakest additions in that mod for instance. I think the people who made Geno for PMEX did a good job, but it is easy to see why said characters' moveset felt cluttered.

Other newly made characters in PMEX were very easy to understand and probably fundamentally very easy to add.

While that is one example, in contrast Toad we can all picture.
Toad could be Mario but with the Mario 2 high speed / high power / low jump. Toad could have a variety of moves from his dozens of spin-off appearances or few Mario 2D appearances. All of that is easy to imagine.

And if you want more out of Toad that is unique... Captain Toad exists... and is his own character!


3. Geno's design is not visually apparent.

This is something more and more I can see being so important in not only Smash, but videos. A character visibly being easy to understand what they are just by looking at them for the first time... that is super important for a main character.

And I do not think Geno has that. Geno is a wooden doll yes, probably with magical powers. But does Geno's design highlight that Geno is largely a weapon? Not really. Meanwhile if you show someone Palutena, Shulk, ROB, all the Fire Emblem folks... they can get more of the archetype after one look, and be reasonably right.

If you want to go general gaming, we all know what Master Chief, Kratos or Trevor from GTA V were largely about just looking at their character art.

Toad is similarly visually easy to understand what Toad is about. But also probably half the population on Earth would know who / what Toad is already. And that makes a world of difference.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

.....people are not looking at Toad or especially Bandana Dee as clones.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Toad can be a clone, Geno cannot

Clones used to be a hateddddddd concept in these discussions. Now, Smash fans realize they are more frugal to add in terms of time, money and resources. They are not competing for other spots, they are more cool bonus characters.

A lot of clone-ish characters fall this way, which again, I think is working in the favor of Toad, Bandanna Waddle Dee, Dixie Kong, ETC. And if any of these characters were added, that would soften the blow of people wanting another character because these characters fall somewhere on the clone spectrum, and thus required less to create.

Even unique characters nowadays are hodgepodges of assets from previous fighters, and last time I checked Smash has 3 arm cannon movesets' worth of animations for Geno to use as a base.

 

[ShotoStar]

There are a lot of factors in Toad vs. Geno that I think uplift Toad and bury Geno

1. Toad can be a clone, Geno cannot

Clones used to be a hateddddddd concept in these discussions. Now, Smash fans realize they are more frugal to add in terms of time, money and resources. They are not competing for other spots, they are more cool bonus characters.

A lot of clone-ish characters fall this way, which again, I think is working in the favor of Toad, Bandanna Waddle Dee, Dixie Kong, ETC. And if any of these characters were added, that would soften the blow of people wanting another character because these characters fall somewhere on the clone spectrum, and thus required less to create.


2. Geno's moveset is hard to conceptualize, Toad is not.

Geno is hard to conceptualize a moveset and skillset in a way that is interesting and cohesive in Smash. Geno also only has one game to be drawn from.

I think the PMEX Geno is one of the weakest additions in that mod for instance. I think the people who made Geno for PMEX did a good job, but it is easy to see why said characters' moveset felt cluttered.

Other newly made characters in PMEX were very easy to understand and probably fundamentally very easy to add.

While that is one example, in contrast Toad we can all picture.
Toad could be Mario but with the Mario 2 high speed / high power / low jump. Toad could have a variety of moves from his dozens of spin-off appearances or few Mario 2D appearances. All of that is easy to imagine.

And if you want more out of Toad that is unique... Captain Toad exists... and is his own character!


3. Geno's design is not visually apparent.

This is something more and more I can see being so important in not only Smash, but videos. A character visibly being easy to understand what they are just by looking at them for the first time... that is super important for a main character.

And I do not think Geno has that. Geno is a wooden doll yes, probably with magical powers. But does Geno's design highlight that Geno is largely a weapon? Not really. Meanwhile if you show someone Palutena, Shulk, ROB, all the Fire Emblem folks... they can get more of the archetype after one look, and be reasonably right.

If you want to go general gaming, we all know what Master Chief, Kratos or Trevor from GTA V were largely about just looking at their character art.

Toad is similarly visually easy to understand what Toad is about. But also probably half the population on Earth would know who / what Toad is already. And that makes a world of difference.

That's... not exactly true. You're overstating the case for Toad quite significantly. The biggest problem in your argument is that nobody in their right mind is asking for Toad as a clone character. Who would he be a clone of? Peach? Mario? It wouldn't work one to one nearly as neatly as you are thinking.

I also disagree heavily with that second point, Most things that Toad could do has already been represented in one way or another through the other Mario characters added. There's no doubt in my mind that Toad could be worked into a unique and fun character if Sakurai and co. tried to go for it but inherently Toad has less distinct moveset potential than Geno does. Most of what Geno has in his arsenal is distinctly his -- being a high risk/high reward zoner with some sort of timed hits mechanic which boosts the strength of attacks. A fighter with guns, cannons, laser beams, OHKO hits, timed hits, maybe tinkering with the fact that he's possessed by a star spirit playing into rounding out his kit, etc. And then Toad who would probably be some sort of fast-paced brawler/grappler who also uses a plethora of gizmos from the mainline Super Mario series. Both offer some very interesting potential but it really comes down to personal preference and the fast-paced brawler archetype is already showcased with Capt. Falcon and Sonic -- not to say Toad would play the same as those two at all but the distinctive factor is lesser.

The only argument here that I think you are correct on is that Toad's design is authentically more easy to understand and conceptualize than Geno's is. Toad has been within many, many more games than Geno has so it's going to be the case no matter what that Toad is more recognizable and easier to conceptualize than a character who mostly lives on in hardcore fan demand. I love Geno, I would say that this argument really doesn't matter too much given Geno and Toad both are still easier to conceptualize than other fighters already on the roster (Duck Hunt, Piranha Plant, Wii Fit Trainer, Steve, etc.) but to say that you're wrong here would simply be untrue. I'll give it up for that argument, it's true

 

[cashregister9]

I was finally able to do the poll, simple but effective.

If it's okay with you I can share this poll to not only another Discord server but also an obscure subreddit I frequent.