Social The Pond - Greninja General Discussion

[31IV]

Didn't get to test, but found this one example and idkkk yet gotta see it react to more moves
https://twitter.com/AceStarThe3rd/status/649204850434011136?lang=en

Can we maybe get downtaunt shield pressure like that? lmao
Downloading the update, let's see

 

[DrizzyDrew]

Can we maybe get downtaunt shield pressure like that? lmao
Downloading the update, let's see

Dont forget to record those replays before they are banished to the shadow relam LOL

 

[Crudele]

Didn't get to test, but found this one example and idkkk yet gotta see it react to more moves
https://twitter.com/AceStarThe3rd/status/649204850434011136?lang=en

Yeah, in before everyone and their mothers pick up lucario. Might have a custom control scheme for him that literally does not have a shield button.

I can't think of greninjas benefit to new shield mechanics other than shffnair being possibly safe on shield without getting grabbed. Lmk if anyone is able to test this

 

[31IV]

Dont forget to record those replays before they are banished to the shadow relam LOL

Don't care that much haha. I also need to upgrade my connection before I can upload 3min replays without waiting approx. 3000 years

Guess Ninja really is unchanged. Hydro Pump bounce at the ledge to SD is still a true combo

 

[Guimartgon]

I wonder if we can now Nair safely on shield, or cover Nair with Jab, that would be pretty cool.

 

[Snackss]

I imagine some people are going to get screwed by this change. And some are going to get pretty notable setups. Greninja already does terrible shielding, so less reason than ever to use it.

And Sheik is still going to be #1 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[biribiri]

Anyone test fully charged shurikens on shield? With the stun increase we might get something out of it.

 

[DrizzyDrew]

I wonder if we can now Nair safely on shield, or cover Nair with Jab, that would be pretty cool.

Might be possible now actually...or follow up with a grab. Gotta test how much stun there is after a nair, because getting grabbed after a nair was way too common when you dont space it correctly. GRENINJA BUFFED?!

 

[Snackss]

It sounds like Luma being able to act while Rosalina is grabbed got patched back in?

That really needs to be a mistake. It's legitimately broken.

 

[Guimartgon]

Might be possible now actually...or follow up with a grab. Gotta test how much stun there is after a nair, because getting grabbed after a nair was way too common when you dont space it correctly. GRENINJA BUFFED?!

Not grab, there's not THAT much shieldstun for our standing grab to be a thing.

It sounds like Luma being able to act while Rosalina is grabbed got patched back in?

That really needs to be a mistake. It's legitimately broken.

I do not think it's broken since you are invincible while throwing, so just don't pummel Rosa. Is it stupid good? Yes Is it broken? Maybe, I just haven't really experienced it.

 

[Snackss]

Someone will have to confirm how much freedom Luma has now, since someone said something about it changed.
Luma being able to act during Rosalina's hitstun will forever be stupid, though.

 

[bc1910]

Shieldstun changes. I don't know if my testing was frame perfect but...

• Greninja's Nair was -8 on shield. With the new mechanics (+3 frames of shieldstun and a more generous shield damage multiplier) it's looking like it's -4 on shield.
• I could not punish Nair > spotdodge with Mario's grab. Mario's grab is a 6 frame OoS option.
• Nair > jab is not a true block string but will break the grab of anyone whose grab is active on frame 7 or higher.

 

[Snackss]

So what do you think? It's not as punishable by grab anymore but you'll still get hit by jabs. Less of a risk but doesn't mean Greninja is going to get free jump-ins.

 

[bc1910]

Grab can be used straight out of shield. Jab has to go through a 7 frame shield drop animation. If it's safer vs grabs it's safer vs jabs, jabs take longer to do OoS.

 

[istudying]

Guys... i think Greninja's grab is bugged.

So after i downloaded the patch, i asked a friend to play some wifi matches with me.

I started noticing something weird with my grab. My grabs kept whiffing after a while in each game.

Here is a short video of it.

Does anyone know what is up?

Big dilemma since i am flying to England tomorrow to attend a big tournament with top players like Mr_R.

 

[Crudele]

Guys... i think Greninja's grab is bugged.

So after i downloaded the patch, i asked a friend to play some wifi matches with me.

I started noticing something weird with my grab. My grabs kept whiffing after a while in each game.

Here is a short video of it.

Does anyone know what is up?

Big dilemma since i am flying to England tomorrow to attend a big tournament with top players like Mr_R.

Yeah I haven't ran into that. That looks super goofy.

Did you try testing this off of wifi? Also, is your dash grab effected?

 

[Guimartgon]

Guys... i think Greninja's grab is bugged.

So after i downloaded the patch, i asked a friend to play some wifi matches with me.

I started noticing something weird with my grab. My grabs kept whiffing after a while in each game.

Here is a short video of it.

Does anyone know what is up?

Big dilemma since i am flying to England tomorrow to attend a big tournament with top players like Mr_R.

That didn't happen to me either, have you checked outside of Wifi? and if it still doesn't work, it might just be your setup in which case that shouldn't happen during tournament

 

[FullMoon]

It's a Diddy glitch, not a Greninja glitch:

http://oddshot.tv/shot/kirambaztokibz-20151001175225591

It has something to do with his banana throw.

 

[DrizzyDrew]

It's a Diddy glitch, not a Greninja glitch:

http://oddshot.tv/shot/kirambaztokibz-20151001175225591

It has something to do with his banana throw.

No wonder people hate Diddy

 

[Snackss]

That's pretty weird.

The time for hating Diddy Kong is long over. The insistence that he's merely "high mid tier" is still ridiculous, though.

 

[DrizzyDrew]

That's pretty weird.

The time for hating Diddy Kong is long over. The insistence that he's merely "high mid tier" is still ridiculous, though.

Now the hate is for Sheik lol it really is never ending.

 

[bc1910]

So Fair is amazing now.

It's -8 on shield. To put that in perspective, Sheik's Fair is -6 on shield. (It might be -8 actually, but I don't know if the landing lag nerf from 1.1.0 was ever confirmed). With decent spacing (it doesn't even have to be perfect) you can use SHFF Fair to approach.

Our Fair is basically Sheik's Fair: HD Disco Remix. We have a lot more startup and landing lag, but ours has slightly more range, a MUCH bigger disjoint, much higher damage and can actually kill. The moves are still very different but some of the applications are now quite similar. I love it.

 

[momochuu]

what can you do after it hits a shield though? nair is only -4 (?) on block and i still can get jabbed by faster jabs.

 

[bc1910]

Yeah we don't get much in the way of shield pressure, it's just a much safer approach option that lets us get in and not get punished.

Nair is -4 on shield, you shouldn't be getting jabbed by faster jabs. Shield drop takes 7 frames which puts Greninja at +3, which is enough time to jab everyone.

 

[Snackss]

The Diddy glitch seems to have been clarified.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQlcYmSAb2w

If he cancels a shield with a grab while being hit by certain moves.

 

[Starman147]

Yeah we don't get much in the way of shield pressure, it's just a much safer approach option that lets us get in and not get punished.

Nair is -4 on shield, you shouldn't be getting jabbed by faster jabs. Shield drop takes 7 frames which puts Greninja at +3, which is enough time to jab everyone.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but does that mean you would only be able to punish a nair is if you perfect shielded it? I'm still trying to get use to the new shieldstun mechanics.

 

[1up_Regal]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but does that mean you would only be able to punish a nair is if you perfect shielded it? I'm still trying to get use to the new shieldstun mechanics.

Any character with an OoS with 4 or less startup frames still can punish us. For example: ZSS or Mario's UpB.

We can shield any move OoS with 5 startup frames (Marth's Upb), spot dodge any shieldgrab, use our jab to trade or win against 7+ frames shieldgrabs, or even use our tilts against opponents with tether grabs. However, they can still roll or spot dodge against our ofensive options.

 

[Starman147]

Any character with an OoS with 4 or less startup frames still can punish us. For example: ZSS or Mario's UpB.

We can shield any move OoS with 5 startup frames (Marth's Upb), spot dodge any shieldgrab, use our jab to trade or win against 7+ frames shieldgrabs, or even use our tilts against opponents with tether grabs. However, they can still roll or spot dodge against our ofensive options.

Ah yes, forgot about up-B-ing out of shield. But still, the amount of options Greninja has when it's at least +5 on shield is seems very useful.

This is also probably the first iteration of the game where a player needs to absolutely know the frame data of their character if they want to succeed, or at least that's what I'm getting out of it.

 

[momochuu]

i'm nairing people shields and still getting shield grabbed. wifi antics or is it not THAT safe?

 

[FullMoon]

i'm nairing people shields and still getting shield grabbed. wifi antics or is it not THAT safe?

N-Air is either -4 or -5 on shield so if you're off by 2 frames you can still be shieldgrabbed, it also depends if you hit the shield too early.

Wi-fi certainly makes it easy to do it wrong or make your action come out 2 frames later and getting you grabbed.

I don't think I've been shieldgrabbed after N-Air all day (could be bad players though), only F-Air has gotten me shieldgrabbed so far.

 

[ROBnWatch]

Ah yes, forgot about up-B-ing out of shield. But still, the amount of options Greninja has when it's at least +5 on shield is seems very useful.

This is also probably the first iteration of the game where a player needs to absolutely know the frame data of their character if they want to succeed, or at least that's what I'm getting out of it.

Really? Aw shoot...

 

[bc1910]

Nair is -4 on shield, if you're getting shieldgrabbed you didn't input the attack correctly.

You do have to be frame perfect though so I don't blame you, it's hard to do consistently.

Nair is pretty free on shield against anyone without a frame 6 grab though, your window of error gets bigger.

 

[momochuu]

hmm, it's probably online then or i'll have to practice. do you have to do the nair at a certain height?

 

[bc1910]

I think as long as you hit with strong Nair and land on the next frame, you'll get the -4 advantage. So you can vary the height a bit.

 

[Jaguar360]

Just saw istudying get 7th at Dat BlastZone! Good job man! I wish that I was watching earlier...only got to see that last game against the Sonic.

EDIT: 5th sorry about that. Forgot that LQ decides 5th place

 

[istudying]

Just saw istudying get 7th at Dat BlastZone! Good job man! I wish that I was watching earlier...only got to see that last game against the Sonic.

I got 5th btw =P Losing to Megeman and Sonic

Happy that i did so well at an almost 200 people tournament.

I just need to practice my matchup vs sonic some more.

It takes a lot of patience to play against such an annoying character.

If anyone got tips i would like to know pls =)

 

[Snackss]

I had a dream that Sonic was a significantly more interesting character. But was only a dream.
Both of the Sonic players I know don't really play Sonic anymore. I know if I go to a tournament, Sonic is the stupid punk I'm most likely to lose to.

 

[Ludiloco]

I lost a friendly to a pretty bad Sonic last night. Just a friendly and it was the first match I played of the night, but that matchup can be really annoying. If you can sniff out his spindash habits he can be a little easier to punish, but there's really no good tool we have for stopping him from bull rushing us down (even charged shuriken he can just wait out at a distance or hop over). This is one of the matchups where shield really isn't that bad if you can quickly react to what he does and get damage. I've had some success catching his jump out of spindash with up smash, but you have to be wary of the spring. We shouldn't be letting him get away with spring -> dair though, up smash covers that easy. Watch Some play Ken, it's probably the best example of how we should be playing against Sonic.

Oh and about the Sonic player from last night, don't worry I took a set off him later with my fraud Ike lol

 

[Uncle Tonkle]

So I'm pretty scrubby and I can't seem to find the timing for Greninja dance trotting and I haven't had any luck finding a video to study for Greninja specifically. Anyone have any tips or perhaps the resources to record a quick example for me? It'd be much appreciated.

 

[nannerham]

i don't know if you guys have used this trick before but i think it's something I think greninja can make use of.