Social The Pond - Greninja General Discussion

[FullMoon]

Yeah he can

 

[Makani]

I've already discovered that months ago, there's an easier way to do it. You can do it straight out of runs without having to jump at all but with this method you can't do a standing grab or special (if you even can with the jumping version).
This method makes use of Greninja's (or any other character's) initial dash animation, if you dash in one direction then switch directions you can input a tilt and slide while performing it. The length of the slide is directly proportional to how long into the initial dash animation you wait to input your tilt.

 

[Dark Dire Wolf]

I've already discovered that months ago, there's an easier way to do it. You can do it straight out of runs without having to jump at all but with this method you can't do a standing grab or special (if you even can with the jumping version).
This method makes use of Greninja's (or any other character's) initial dash animation, if you dash in one direction then switch directions you can input a tilt and slide while performing it. The length of the slide is directly proportional to how long into the initial dash animation you wait to input your tilt.

Do you have c-stick set to tilt for this?

 

[FullMoon]

I actually find it easier to do with a jump than with the running method lol

 

[Makani]

Do you have c-stick set to tilt for this?

Yeah.

I actually find it easier to do with a jump than with the running method lol

Hm... I found it easier doing my method, but I guess the length of the slide for the jumping method will always be consistent since this relies on walking animation speed than initial dash animation length.

 

[Funkermonster]

So about 2 days ago, I was doing fine on the ladder and eventually beat a Platinum Ganondorf that granted me a gold ranking and #8 or 6 on the Greninja rank table.... and just today I lost it, from a losing streak of 3 games in a row and just had another loss right now . 1 Loss from a Diddy Kong, and the other 2 from s (along with another Mario who bodied me several times yesterday), and I'm feelin' in kind of a bad mood at this moment.

I haven't gotten to play offline since the shieldstun patch came and I haven't been to a tournament lately so I've only been playing online, but so far I do not enjoy it from what I've played and I've been having some off days lately. First, my main gets slightly nerfed this patch outside of customs with worsened OoS options due to +'d shieldstun and rushdown chars being buffed sp they're probably better against him now. I can tell Greninja's Fair and Nair are safer on block now and Fair is kinda amazing, but I'm not really sure if that balances out his own OoS (which were already crappy to begin with) becoming worse as well so I dunno. Either way, I haven't played offline yet said before, but I do not look forward to what's coming to me. Just for an instance, I've always found Pikachu a bad MU for Greninja but MM could do fine against him, but as of this patch it may very well be in his favor now and I don't really see it getting much better for Gren, maybe not horrible for either of them imo but I don't think its even. Maybe I'm just playing the MU wrong or maybe because I'm playing online (I'd imagine it helps Mario more because of his godlike frame data, compared to the mediocre data my own 2characters have), but I've also been having a lot of trouble with s lately, and I've come to hate fighting him. Mario is imo MM's worst matchup at -2 and its that bad for him, and I always thought I could just take him on with Gren but its still proven difficult for me. Dealing with his speedy moves, Dthrow shenaningans, his aerials (particularly his Bair and his Dair, so annoying), a hard-to-gimp recovery, the cape, and his combo-breaking Nair always overwhlems me and I have literally no clue what about these. If anybody knows how to deal with Mario, plz lay it on me, my head hurts everytime I have to deal with him now. I think I've lost to more Marios than anybody else at this point...

Case in point, so that would mean both my characters gain yet another common bad MU and my duo might not synergize as well anymore and I might have to end up playing someone else for better MU coverage and find a new 2nd, as much as I love Greninja. There's also a huge monthly tournament coming near me this Sunday where my region's season ends and a new PR is made, so that's making things even more serious and I don't feel prepared for it with the bad luck I've been having. Maybe I'm just overthinking all this, but this is definitely not my night, and I hope to steal back my Gold Rank on Anther's eventually after I take a 1-day break from Smash tomorrow. Maybe next season I can properly rep both the Blue Metal Hero and Master of Stealth without the need to let either of them go, although I am going to start playing Rosalina now as an emergency last resort.. Was looking to play a top tier for quite some time now anyway.

Overall though, today sucked, and I've only got 5 more days to stop bein' bad

 

[Dark Dire Wolf]

Yeah he can

Can this combo be one out of a standing dtilt?

 

[Funkermonster]

Can this combo be one out of a standing dtilt?

Not my question, I know, but yes standing dtilt works just as well as the pivot slide one. Not enough hitstun to be a 100% true combo tho, opponents can still jump out of it or airdodge (giving you the sourspot usmash instead of sweetspot, which usually won't kill) either way, so it becomes a 50/50 trap bait. Be prepared to use Shadow Sneak/Fsmash or Jump and Up Air if opponents get used to doing this.

 

[momochuu]

\o/

 

[elusiveTranscendent]

\o/

holy hell the substitute plush looks PERFECT FOR HUGGING

 

[Jaguar360]

Yes, thanks to sliding pivots, there is at least one advanced movement technique I can do consistently on 3DS! Gonna be sure to integrate them into my game.

^Top tier plushies

 

[Makani]

So I just recently bought a GC controller after having used a pro controller for months and i've come to the conclusion that SOMEHOW it's infinitely easier to do wavebouncing and b-reversing with a GC controller than it is with a pro controller. Why? Iunno...
Gonna have to start using the GC controller full time since I never wavebounced or b-reversed my neutral b's before with the pro controller.

 

[nannerham]

So I just recently bought a GC controller after having used a pro controller for months and i've come to the conclusion that SOMEHOW it's infinitely easier to do wavebouncing and b-reversing with a GC controller than it is with a pro controller. Why? Iunno...

I usually transfer from the gamepad to the GC controller [my friend has an adapter I don't ;-;] I find it easier on the GC controller because if you press too hard on the controller stick for the gamepad/pro controller it'll click, and as small as it sounds it can seriously mess with your muscle memory and that can cost you the match.

 

[Jaguar360]

Not my question, I know, but yes standing dtilt works just as well as the pivot slide one. Not enough hitstun to be a 100% true combo tho, opponents can still jump out of it or airdodge (giving you the sourspot usmash instead of sweetspot, which usually won't kill) either way, so it becomes a 50/50 trap bait. Be prepared to use Shadow Sneak/Fsmash or Jump and Up Air if opponents get used to doing this.

Adding to the options out of d-tilt: you can also do a short hop then U-spike to lead into one of the following kill confirms: U-air spike > D-smash, U-air spike > U-tilt > U-air, or D-tilt > U-air spike until you get to a percent where d-tilt to f-air is guaranteed.

 

[Cerealisyummy5]

Alright so i'm gonna pick this guy up. What would be a nice place to start looking at....

 

[Funkermonster]

Alright so i'm gonna pick this guy up. What would be a nice place to start looking at....

Maybe watch videos of players like aMsa or Techei? Besides that, maybe just come here quite often and you'll learn along the way. I warn you know though, this character is very difficult to get good with and its gonna be one long hell of a road, especially if you already have a main (according to your profile you play Mario and Bowser a lot, I presume?). Gonna take a lot of work and dedication to work with Greninja and it's gonna be quite stressful. Just lettin' you know what you're getting yourself into.

 

[Cerealisyummy5]

Mhmm okay.

 

[Jaguar360]

Also be sure to check out the combo thread by @MartinAW4 and the Mysterious Arsenal thread to get a good understanding of Greninja's tools. Be sure to check out Some and NinjaLink for more recent Greninja videos as well; they are probably the best Greninjas in Japan and America respectively. You can find good videos of aMSa and Some in the top 10 videos thread to get started if you don't feel like searching. NinjaLink had a replay dump in our Greninja video thread as well.

Greninja is tough to learn at first, but he's such a rewarding character to play, so I definitely recommend trying if you're interested in him. Always glad to see new Greninja mains/secondaries/pockets

 

[TTYK]

So aMSa isn't going to attend wii u singles at genesis 3..

 

[Jonarobin]

Should I switch to Gamecube controller? I'm just so used to the WiiU Pro Controller and I feel like I'm bad with the gamecube controller due to my 1,000+ matches with the WiiU Pro. Is it worth switching..?

also wow never knew about that sliding stuff I'm gonna start using attack with my right/c-stick and see what comes out of that c: (holy cow i bet it's way easier to up-tilt why did was i not lol) well I use it for up-smash a lot so we'll just see if the trade-off is worth it because running and up-smashing may be harder...

Are there any controller changes that are helpful for better Greninja play?

 

[bc1910]

Meh, someone should get Some to attend. He eclipses aMSa massively.

 

[ROBnWatch]

Should I switch to Gamecube controller? I'm just so used to the WiiU Pro Controller and I feel like I'm bad with the gamecube controller due to my 1,000+ matches with the WiiU Pro. Is it worth switching..?

also wow never knew about that sliding stuff I'm gonna start using attack with my right/c-stick and see what comes out of that c: (holy cow i bet it's way easier to up-tilt why did was i not lol) well I use it for up-smash a lot so we'll just see if the trade-off is worth it because running and up-smashing may be harder...

Are there any controller changes that are helpful for better Greninja play?

Now I'm just going to give my opinion on this (of which I'm in the minority).

The best controller option for me is the Wiimote held sideways. It's the way I've always played, and it is MUCH easier for me to understand than all that Up-B, Side-B, C-stick, and all that other crap. Makes it sound like you're all playing with an X-box controller...

But again, that's just my two cents on it. I know I'm part of a minority, but it just works for me.

 

[Jonarobin]

Now I'm just going to give my opinion on this (of which I'm in the minority).

The best controller option for me is the Wiimote held sideways. It's the way I've always played, and it is MUCH easier for me to understand than all that Up-B, Side-B, C-stick, and all that other crap. Makes it sound like you're all playing with an X-box controller...

But again, that's just my two cents on it. I know I'm part of a minority, but it just works for me.

i used to be like you
the d-pad and buttons hurt my thumbs honestly i've preferred the switch to wiiu pro controller/gamecube so much

but play whatevers easiest for you

 

[Coffee™]

Meh, someone should get Some to attend. He eclipses aMSa massively.

Agreed. No doubt Amsa is good in general but he hasn't really done anything notable since Apex and tends to get bodied in Japan. Some seems to be considerably better at this point.

Does anyone know what happened to Lea? Haven't seen his Greninja in some time now.

 

[Makani]

Should I switch to Gamecube controller? I'm just so used to the WiiU Pro Controller and I feel like I'm bad with the gamecube controller due to my 1,000+ matches with the WiiU Pro. Is it worth switching..?

In the long run I would suggest switching, some movement techs seem alot easier using the GC controller as opposed to the pro controller. This is coming from someone who used the pro controller since release basically, i've never been able to b-reverse my shurikens or wavebounce them with the pro controller but after just recently switching to the GC controller I can do those techs alot more consistently without even having practiced them at all before. The only downside is the layout on the GC controller feels foreign after having not used it for years and years, you'll definitely have to overwrite your current muscle memory and replace it with the GC controller.
Also it seems to be harder to do your correct aerials with the GC C-stick... Alot of them come out as NAirs because the diagonal zones of the C-stick seem to be alot wider compared to the pro controller's C-stick diagonal zones.

Are there any controller changes that are helpful for better Greninja play?

I'm just using stock GC controls, it is a bit hard to grab and do manual aerials (as opposed to c-stick aerials).

BTW, the only reason I switched to GC controller is because pro controllers seem to malfunctional alot over time, so I got tired of having to buy a new pro controller every 3-4 months.

 

[momochuu]

Does anyone know what happened to Lea? Haven't seen his Greninja in some time now.

splatoon happened, although his greninja is still good. a team of shiki, lea, and consomme recently won an online character crew battle.

 

[TTYK]

splatoon happened, although his greninja is still good. a team of shiki, lea, and consomme recently won an online character crew battle.

Is he playing splatoon competitively?

 

[ROBnWatch]

Wait, Splatoon's being played competitively? Dang! Although I shouldn't be surprised, everything's being played "competitively" these days. I rated EarthBound after playing it and the last question was something along the lines of "Should this game be played casually or seriously/competitively?". I chose casually (because I would think that'd be the obvious choice), yet the results showed over 75% of people voted seriously/competitively. This is no lie.

 

[momochuu]

i don't splatoon is a very good game

 

[FullMoon]

My gaming life is basically Splatoon and Sm4sh at this point.

 

[ROBnWatch]

Let's see...my gaming life is...

Smash 4
SSBB (still love to play ICies and the other cuts)
EarthBound
EarthBound Beginnings
CoD MW series and AW

Then there's all the old Wii games I have and still play, just not as often as what I listed...and I'm sure that once I get Splatoon, I'll be playing that a lot too.

 

[TTYK]

This is the link to the competitive community The funny thing is I am on the #1 squad in the west, bittersweet goodgaming

 

[PHaZeX3R0]

Something derpy ◥θ┴θ◤

 

[elusiveTranscendent]

i got this on somebody
obviously pilot wings should be legalized

 

[Starman147]

Something derpy ◥θ┴θ◤

And they call that Sheikville.

Although I don't think I've ever been able to get a jab reset with a bair, ever.

 

[Jonarobin]

Something derpy ◥θ┴θ◤

that's epic

 

[Jaguar360]

https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/3p4x8s/clutchest_game_of_smash_4_yet/
Forgot to mention this yesterday. A French Greninja named Elixaxio won a tournament in a close grand finals set with a Sheik (Griffin). Granted, it was only 18 players according to the bracket, but still nice stuff.

 

[Starman147]

https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/3p4x8s/clutchest_game_of_smash_4_yet/
Forgot to mention this yesterday. A French Greninja named Elixaxio won a tournament in a close grand finals set with a Sheik (Griffin). Granted, it was only 18 players according to the bracket, but still nice stuff.

To be fair, that Sheik player should've just tried timing out the Greninja anyway. Greninja u-throw even with max rage wouldn't have killed that early, and most follow-up throw options probably wouldn't have worked with that high of rage mixed with Sheik's light weight. Sheik's best option would've just been to stay in shield most of the time and play evasively.

It's still a good thing though that they removed Star KO's when the timer is almost at the end, because Sheik probably wouldn't have technically died if that happened.

 

[istudying]

Hey guys!

I won singles & teams at a 41 Smash National yesterday in The Netherlands with Greninja. I only lost 1 match the whole day.

For anyone that is interested in some gameplay, i sorted all my matches out on stream.

http://www.twitch.tv/byo_controller/v/21253551

Teams:
11:00
48:00
02:05:45

Singles:
02:26:57
04:27:24
05:53:00
06:30:00

Let me know what you think and where i can improve ^^

 

[Guimartgon]

Hey guys!

I won singles & teams at a 41 Smash National yesterday in The Netherlands with Greninja. I only lost 1 match the whole day.

For anyone that is interested in some gameplay, i sorted all my matches out on stream.

http://www.twitch.tv/byo_controller/v/21253551

Teams:
11:00
48:00
02:05:45

Singles:
02:26:57
04:27:24
05:53:00
06:30:00

Let me know what you think and where i can improve ^^

That Diddy Kong player had a family!

Seriously though you are probably one of my favorite grenijnjas around.

Quick question about that game 1: Was the player just not using bananas or where you purposely staying really upclose to pressure him to not give him time to throw it out?