Social The Pond - Greninja General Discussion

[FullMoon]

With all that said though once Smash 5 comes out Greninja will be likely irrelevant at that point so I find it rather probable that they may cut him from the roster, as much as I don't want that to happen.

 

[momochuu]

lucario is barely relevant and he's in smash 4 so...****, he was barely relevant when brawl came out.

 

[elusiveTranscendent]

lucario is barely relevant and he's in smash 4 so...****, he was barely relevant when brawl came out.

He had a movie though
wait greninja has one too
...i think

 

[FullMoon]

Lucario was still relevant in Gen VI thanks to Korrina and the Mega Evolution plot.

He had a movie centered around him (and Mew) when Brawl came out too.

 

[momochuu]

that movie was pretty garbage. in the anime ash is probably gonna have a greninja for a while. actually there's been like two different greninjas in the anime, and one was in the most recent movie yeah.

 

[elusiveTranscendent]

Or maybe we'll have have all the Pokemon reps carry over and other series will just get more representation!
Wishful thinking!
that or charizard will be cut because we have 4 1st gen pokemon reps like COME ON

 

[KakuCP9]

To this day, I find the fact that Greni literally ninja'd his way into the roster before anyone knew he existed @#$^ing awesome. The best part is that he became one of my favorite starters and it made me mega hype when has announced.

 

[Deleted member]

Greninja is the most popular Gen 6 Pokemon without a doubt, Ash will have one, he was in the Diancie film, and Sakurai hates cutting characters. He also is promoting Super Mystery Dungeon right now:

If anything, Greninja will get a Mega Evolution in Gen 7/8 and his popularity will keep him in Smash, or he'll be brought back as DLC like and.

 

[carlos11]

Is it true that a dataminer said Greninja feels more like his 1.0.3 self in the update?

 

[FullMoon]

I dunno, we shall know tomorrow.

Seriously, it's just a few hours to wait.

 

[Snackss]

Well, I kind of doubt that but I'm going to be playing Lucas rather than a half-baked Mario as a secondary.

 

[FullMoon]

Today I was reminded just why Sheik is a bad MU for us.

Fighting Sheik in lag is utter hell.

 

[elusiveTranscendent]

https://twitter.com/Shiki7010/status/610118208410943488

translation, according to what @ momochuu said in the skype group: GRENINJA GOT BUFFED YEEEEEAAAHHHH! His ftilt recovers faster and does 7% now

 

[momochuu]

yeah its much faster now. in the bair into ftilt jab lock you can do two ftilts now lol.

 

[FullMoon]

Funny that happens just after I asked about uses for F-Tilt

Are there any other changes so far?

 

[Gunla]

I have looked into other changes so far; it appears that, % wise, nothing has been changed otherwise.

I can confirm that the changes to FTilt are legitimate.

 

[FullMoon]

Is Shadow Sneak Hitstun Cancel still in?

 

[momochuu]

nothing else seems to be changed atm but we'll see. hopefully someone actually dumps the data on the damn patch this time.

 

[FullMoon]

Okay so SS Hitstun Cancel is still and F-Tilt is faster.

I think people can still fall out of Up-Air unfortunately.

 

[momochuu]

that's whatever. you can still uair lock people then.

 

[FullMoon]

Eh, it really sucks when you miss a kill because the last hit of Up-Air didn't connect so I really wanted that fixed.

 

[Snackss]

How much of a difference do you think the competent forward tilt will make? Greninja always struggles with how unsafe he is at close range, but now he at least has a decent knockaway move that isn't so horrendously unsafe, right?

 

[carlos11]

The buff is even better than you guys think. Ftilt actually deals 7.3% damage now. Pretty impressive if I do say so myself. That extra .3% is only going to stack up.

 

[PokemonyeWest]

What with this F-Tilt buff, my beginner's guide has been updated

EDIT: Is it still highly unsafe on shield?

 

[elusiveTranscendent]

Meanwhile on Miiverse...

 

[Makani]

What with this F-Tilt buff, my beginner's guide has been updated

EDIT: Is it still highly unsafe on shield?

I think spaced properly it could be, I haven't played around with it much.

thank u based sakurai for buffs

 

[Coffee™]

How much of a difference do you think the competent forward tilt will make? Greninja always struggles with how unsafe he is at close range, but now he at least has a decent knockaway move that isn't so horrendously unsafe, right?

It'll make a considerable difference in neutral. It's literally made me excited enough to start practicing with him again.

 

[FullMoon]

F-Tilt is now a fast move with a very good range that's probably pretty safe on shield if space correctly. Plus it ending faster maybe could mean we could get something out of the trips it causes sometimes

It's another toy for Greninja to mess with but on the grand scheme of things it's a pretty minor change. Still at least F-Tilt is an actual move now instead of being a punishment for messing up the F-Smash input.

 

[PokemonyeWest]

Thanks for the info pals.

Honestly though, I'm pretty miffed that's the only change Greninja got.

 

[Deleted member]

I went into training with my friend and a spaced Ftilt (the foot part, although it may be a bit lenient on the tip of it or not), is safe on Marth's shield. Up B OoS had too little range and a dash grab got stuffed by Greninja's grab. I'd imagine that some characters like Shulk could Up B us OoS or dash grab if they perfect shield, but we got ourselves a nice and safe poke.

 

[FullMoon]

A safe poke is something Greninja really needed to improve his game so thanks Sakurai.

But I do wonder what we could do with the tripping part of the move.

 

[Deleted member]

A safe poke is something Greninja really needed to improve his game so thanks Sakurai.

But I do wonder what we could do with the tripping part of the move.

We can trip with it? I've never known that before. Probably since its so worthless I've never used it. But hey, if the one time I've gotten a trip with Falcon's Bair in training mode ever combo'd into his Fsmash for ~33%, then we can probably get an Fsmash, or maybe even Nair (or maybe even stagnant shuriken) -> Footstool -> pick your combo off of trip. Thinking about it, Ftilt might be another way to setup a 0-Death.

 

[Lavani]

We can trip with it? I've never known that before. Probably since its so worthless I've never used it.

Attacks that knock back but don't lift the opponent off the ground have a base 10% chance of tripping.

 

[bc1910]

I'm in love with his new Ftilt. The range on this thing is just vile, it always was, but now it's so safe.

Sheik can't just short hop near us and invalidate our neutral any more, we can kick her in the face. We barely outrange her Fair and can be safe on shield. And we won't get torn a new one nearly as often if we miss.

This buff is a major boon to one of Greninja's biggest weaknesses, that being his lack of safe pokes. I really want to know if the startup frame data was buffed, the ending lag clearly has been and Ftilt was a 10f move and it feels faster than that now, but it could just be placebo. Can anyone get the new frame data?

I feel this buff is enough to push Greninja above the other characters he fights with for a top 20 spot. Characters like Mega Man, Peach, ROB etc, considering none of them got buffs and this is a really nice buff. Probably better than it initially seems.

 

[Lavani]

Ftilt buff was like ~-10 frames off the endlag, it really is amazing. Even with that range I'm not sure that it's safe on shield though, it's -12 after shield drop, seems like dash attack/dash grab punishes will still be real.

Startup is unchanged.

 

[Eddy]

Cool stuff with the ftilt finally we got a buff guys! I will practice the ftilt now hope its useful and good

 

[bc1910]

Ftilt buff was like ~-10 frames off the endlag, it really is amazing. Even with that range I'm not sure that it's safe on shield though, it's -12 after shield drop, seems like dash attack/dash grab punishes will still be real.

Startup is unchanged.

Ah, so it's just the ending lag buff. A shame, but still a huge buff.

We tested it on shield and if spaced perfectly, most characters are unable to attack or dashgrab Greninja before he can jab/put his shield up. Makes sense when you think about it, since characters typically have 7-8 frame startup on their dashgrabs and won't be able to reach Greninja in like, 4 frames, if he spaces properly.

 

[Gunla]

Meanwhile on Miiverse...

The Memeverse stage is going to be great for Greninja.

So many pepes.

 

[FullMoon]

So my first MU impressions so far...

Greninja is going to wreck Roy offstage so badly oh my god. Other than that, it's pretty much the Marth MU but that F-Smash will destroy you if you're not careful, it's surprisingly safe on shield too. Feels like an even or slight advantage for us.

Lucas looks a lot more manageable on stage than Ness, thanks to his poor grab. He does do a lot of damage if he does get us though and 3 of his throws kill. He's also almost impossible to edgeguard, his tether is really good, PK Fire gives him horizontal distance and his PK Thunder II goes ridiculously far. His PK Fire is also probably a better projectile than shurikens since a short hop PK Fire is very safe and most likely is going to push him away from us. Feels even though I think it could turn out to be advantageous for us since Lucas lacks a lot of what makes Ness annoying for us.

Ryu... Praise F-Air for it is your lord and savior. F-Air helps keep Ryu away pretty well and you most certainly do not want him to get in your face. Abuse disjoints as much as you can against him. Greninja can also crouch under the Hadouken so that's something to keep in mind. Ryu hurts a lot so be cautious when dealing with him. His throw game is not that intimidating so being grabbed by him is at least not that bad. I think our disjoints can make this an even MU, but I can see it becoming disadvantageous as Ryu players get better.

Do keep in mind this is just first impressions so take it with a grain of salt.

 

[bc1910]

We have to run the **** away from Ryu and keep him out with Fair and Ftilt if we want to stand a chance. Our follow up game on him is typically good but his is better because more of his stuff is guaranteed, and his close range is obviously a lot better. Still I think we have a better shot in this MU than, frankly, most of the roster. Ryu just flattens close range fighters and hits as hard as the heavies with better combos and frame data than them. He can outdamage zoners and break the shields of defensive players/characters easily. You need to outrange him and have good mobility to survive, fortunately we have both, a projectile also helps.

We screw with his recovery pretty badly which is nice considering some characters can't do much about it since it has invincibility and big hitboxes everywhere. Hydro Pump can also make Ryu move REALLY far in the air because of his weird air speed mechanics. We're good at gimping all the new DLC recoveries I think.

By the way, run back pivot Ftilt is amazing now. Use it all the time. Oh my God I love this move.