The Plumber's Crack - Mario General

[Gallo69]

Ooh, snake. You can deal with mines with fireballs, and if you get a good feel for when your opponent wants to use tranquilizer you can turn it back on him. He's got good control of space but Mario has really good movement so it comes down how well you can keep up with Snakes positional advantage and how well you press your own advantage.

Can you cape tranq? Ofc I should've learned this myself but I'm mad cuz bad I guess.

 

[GeZ]

Can you cape tranq? Ofc I should've learned this myself but I'm mad cuz bad I guess.

You definitely can. Fun as hell to. I'm writing as I watch some critique of your matches in my last post so that'll be there if you want to hear it out?

 

[Gallo69]

You definitely can. Fun as hell to. I'm writing as I watch some critique of your matches in my last post so that'll be there if you want to hear it out?

Thanks for the advice. I definitely need to grab more. Part of not grabbing enough is because my ground game needs work. Reacting quick enough to my opponent is a problem for me so I prefer to stick to the air which isn't even where Mario is played best. He dominates on the ground I just have to get better there. Combos I'll keep working on. It's tough when your opponent has amazing DI but I agree I need to get better.

 

[GeZ]

Thanks for the advice. I definitely need to grab more. Part of not grabbing enough is because my ground game needs work. Reacting quick enough to my opponent is a problem for me so I prefer to stick to the air which isn't even where Mario is played best. He dominates on the ground I just have to get better there. Combos I'll keep working on. It's tough when your opponent has amazing DI but I agree I need to get better.

Well you can just skim most of the update to my last post because you pretty much said what I was writing.

Funny thing about reaction is that anticipation is a larger part of it than most players would guess. For instance, in Street Fighter 4 there's a character with a dash that covers a good distance at a speed of 4 frames. The last study on reaction times shows that the fastest the average person reacts is within 3/60's of a second, or 3 frames. So the movement should be literally almost faster than people can keep track of, but at a high level of play, most players can punish that 4 frame dash. The logic is that while they can't necessarily keep track of the visual cues, they can keep track of the opponents habits, and punish the dash based on knowing when their opponent throws it out in relation to what they usually do before it.

Also Eli's DI is pretty stronk, but if you notice patterns you can get harder punishes. For instance Eli DI'd behind you when you used Dthrow most of the time, and would DI away from you during Uair chains. If you had caught on, you could have Bair'd him out of Dthrow and gone for super meaty forward Uairs into Fairs.

 

[Gallo69]

Well you can just skim most of the update to my last post because you pretty much said what I was writing.

Funny thing about reaction is that anticipation is a larger part of it than most players would guess. For instance, in Street Fighter 4 there's a character with a dash that covers a good distance at a speed of 4 frames. The last study on reaction times shows that the fastest the average person reacts is within 3/60's of a second, or 3 frames. So the movement should be literally almost faster than people can keep track of, but at a high level of play, most players can punish that 4 frame dash. The logic is that while they can't necessarily keep track of the visual cues, they can keep track of the opponents habits, and punish the dash based on knowing when their opponent throws it out in relation to what they usually do before it.

Also Eli's DI is pretty stronk, but if you notice patterns you can get harder punishes. For instance Eli DI'd behind you when you used Dthrow most of the time, and would DI away from you during Uair chains. If you had caught on, you could have Bair'd him out of Dthrow and gone for super meaty forward Uairs into Fairs.

I will definitely work on reading my opponents. You're totally right about adapting to the way the opponent is DIing. I'll work it into my game. The way I've been playing up until now is if I subconsciously notice patterns in my opponents play I'll start to adapt, but that has been screwing me over in really high level matches because top players constantly switch things up. I need to start putting my opponent in the front of my mind rather than the back.

 

[GeZ]

I will definitely work on reading my opponents. You're totally right about adapting to the way the opponent is DIing. I'll work it into my game. The way I've been playing up until now is if I subconsciously notice patterns in my opponents play I'll start to adapt, but that has been screwing me over in really high level matches because top players constantly switch things up. I need to start putting my opponent in the front of my mind rather than the back.

Yeah, that's the problem. High level opponents know how to play as themselves and then change it drastically. So devoting anything but primarily full attention to their habits can really get you put behind. If I could make a recommendation for getting a feel for your opponent, do a few standard things like throw fireball, come in with an aerial, move towards them in a definitive way, and look really closely as to how they react. You'll spend a while seemingly not accomplishing anything, but after you've got a feel for them you can get into the match with your understanding of their habits. The technique is called "feeling them out" and is used a lot more in other games, but not as much in smash.

Another part of reading your opponent is assuming a few things, like players natural inclination to tech away when given the opportunity to tech, or that most players will try to shield grab aerials, and then spending the early part of the match teaching them to not do those things. Then all your mixups are fair game, you get a good lead doing those things until they break the habit, and in really clutch moments you know what they default to.

And bad habits are the crux of looking for players habits. If they've got one really bad thing that they do when put in a certain situation, push them to it. The worst habits are the hardest for the opponent to break as they're only their because of some deep seeded inclination to react in a poor way.

Edit: also a thing I noticed in your matches that could really help you out is that you'll use Dair and land behind the opponent and go for jab, or Utilt, or Dtilt, or some other combo starter, and if it doesn't combo off of Dair the opponent just shields it. If you started going for grabs after those cross up Dairs you could really threaten your opponent, as staying in shield gets them grabbed and trying to SH an aerial gets them Utilted. Spot dodging doesn't matter because they still have their back to you, and you can chase rolls to grab.

 

[deadjames]

Not sure if this was mentioned before, but I was watching a vid of Boss playing Mario and noticed he was getting some ridiculous height from his down-b and I happened to notice that he b-reversed a cape before using down-b every time then I tried it myself and had the same result (i.e. more height) so either I'm just crazy, or b-reversing a cape beforehand for whatever reason lets you get significantly more height from the down-b.

 

[GeZ]

I've been playing around with Wavelanding different aerials. What utility have you guys found for that tech in regard to Mario?

 

[deadjames]

Wavelanding aerials is more of a Luigi thing, I haven't really found it to be all that useful with Mario.

 

[MrM]

bair waveland oos is something ive been doing lately

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

I've been playing around with Wavelanding different aerials. What utility have you guys found for that tech in regard to Mario?

Safe shield pressure with aerials, more follow ups and it makes you that much more mobile.
I'm all bout the movement

 

[xXDarkRisingXx]

I use it as a mix-up around 80% to set up a stutter-stepped FSmash(bad DI). Give or take percentages depending on weight.

di right u can tilt to doc punch at high damage on almost every charcter. You and also use it to set up a grab at low med percect Or sh down air to up Til

 

[xXDarkRisingXx]

I really should have mentioned this earlier. I was playing on a Wii U at the time, therefore my set up was a nunchuk combination. I'm not quite sure, but that may be why I got lift from the A button while holding B. The way to get full recovery potential with this set up seems to be( DownB->DownB while A mashing), implying that you press b twice.

Really? Because i play with the nuc and can never get the full rise But im going to try that

 

[xXDarkRisingXx]

Yeah, that's the problem. High level opponents know how to play as themselves and then change it drastically. So devoting anything but primarily full attention to their habits can really get you put behind. If I could make a recommendation for getting a feel for your opponent, do a few standard things like throw fireball, come in with an aerial, move towards them in a definitive way, and look really closely as to how they react. You'll spend a while seemingly not accomplishing anything, but after you've got a feel for them you can get into the match with your understanding of their habits. The technique is called "feeling them out" and is used a lot more in other games, but not as much in smash.

Another part of reading your opponent is assuming a few things, like players natural inclination to tech away when given the opportunity to tech, or that most players will try to shield grab aerials, and then spending the early part of the match teaching them to not do those things. Then all your mixups are fair game, you get a good lead doing those things until they break the habit, and in really clutch moments you know what they default to.

And bad habits are the crux of looking for players habits. If they've got one really bad thing that they do when put in a certain situation, push them to it. The worst habits are the hardest for the opponent to break as they're only their because of some deep seeded inclination to react in a poor way.

Edit: also a thing I noticed in your matches that could really help you out is that you'll use Dair and land behind the opponent and go for jab, or Utilt, or Dtilt, or some other combo starter, and if it doesn't combo off of Dair the opponent just shields it. If you started going for grabs after those cross up Dairs you could really threaten your opponent, as staying in shield gets them grabbed and trying to SH an aerial gets them Utilted. Spot dodging doesn't matter because they still have their back to you, and you can chase rolls to grab.

Ever time im on a mario thread your always post such godlike advce To help a fellow mario player. This smasher geez is an inspiracion too all mario players. If we keep exchaging ideas like,tip, combos, videos, Techs, Creative idea we can unlock the plummers true power.

 

[deadjames]

Well that is the general idea of the character discussion boards.

 

[GeZ]

Well that is the general idea of the character discussion boards.

Though you wouldn't know it from looking at some of the character discussion.

Ever time im on a mario thread your always post such godlike advce To help a fellow mario player. This smasher geez is an inspiracion too all mario players. If we keep exchaging ideas like,tip, combos, videos, Techs, Creative idea we can unlock the plummers true power.

And thanks man. I like helping players so it's cool for me to see players developing like you and a lot of Mario mains in these threads.

After watching this weeks S@X, I'm convinced that Boss is the hero Mario needs.

I like his competence and play, I think his use of tools could be improved but so far he's one of the most competent Mario's I've seen.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

bair waveland oos is something ive been doing lately

Do you have any more videos up? I like your style man

 

[xXDarkRisingXx]

Just a thought, what do you guys feel about cape gliding On pm?

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

It's cool, nothing special imo

 

[yellowdee]

Just a thought, what do you guys feel about cape gliding On pm?

I think it was more useful in Brawl, when you couldn't keep your running momentum while jumping. This really allowed you to get out there for edgeguarding. Now you can just hop towards the recovering opponent, fireball 'em, use the hitstun to ensure an upair or reversed bair, and recover. If it were easier to get the maximum glide distance, I'd say it's a viable technique for messing with your opponent around platforms.

 

[GeZ]

It isn't central to anything but why not incorporate more movement options into your game, however seldom they're used.

 

[yellowdee]

Has anyone discussed what I like to call the "Stale Cape Sweetspot"? It's a recovery technique that lets you sweetspot very easily on any stage with overhanging walls. Think of Final Destination, Fountain of Dreams, and even Dreamland, to name a few. On your recovery, cape at least once to get your cape stale. Wall jump (off an up-B or otherwise) and simply cape toward the stage immediately after. Mario will sweetspot as soon as he's in range!

It's even possible to do on straight-walled stages if you reverse-momentum the cape, but it's less reliable to execute and leaves you slightly more vulnerable to an edge guard.

I haven't seen anyone do this and did not find anything on it on the forums after a brief search, but I find this technique invaluable.

 

[xXDarkRisingXx]

I did that once got ***** for it By marths superb edge skills lol but its a decebt switch up for recover at least. Its always great to have more ways to return to the stage.

 

[Toomad]

Hey all, this is not Mario specific but it's something I found that's kind of useful. I think it's probably been done before but I'll just make a note anyway. You can do a "running" F-smash by pivoting and then c-sticking the smash on the pivot frame. I've found it really hard to do consistently because the timing is so tight, but it could be a useful mix-up. I assume you can downsmash as well but I haven't checked it.

 

[GeZ]

Hey all, this is not Mario specific but it's something I found that's kind of useful. I think it's probably been done before but I'll just make a note anyway. You can do a "running" F-smash by pivoting and then c-sticking the smash on the pivot frame. I've found it really hard to do consistently because the timing is so tight, but it could be a useful mix-up. I assume you can downsmash as well but I haven't checked it.

I personally prefer spacing myself with WD if I want to fun to do something like that, but that sounds neat in any case.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

You could just run, crunch, tilt the analog stick a little away from the person and smash'em.
It gives the fsmash a bit more range, which is totes awesome.

 

[xXDarkRisingXx]

You could just run, crunch, tilt the analog stick a little away from the person and smash'em.
It gives the fsmash a bit more range, which is totes awesome.

Sounds cool, but i would rather wd shutter step f smash, but the provet thing sounds cool too, im going to try it out, the more techs, the better

 

[MrM]

Do you have any more videos up? I like your style man

no i dont sadly i dont upload them myself no cap card
my dubs partner kolo has one whenever we have time to we'll try to get some recent videos out

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

no i dont sadly i dont upload them myself no cap card
my dubs partner kolo has one whenever we have time to we'll try to get some recent videos out

If you still play wifi, but if you do, I wouldn't mind uploading your games for you. I'm not sure if you can send people your replays but if you can, HIT ME UP. I can't really do much of this at the moment, but in the near future, I will be able to.

 

[MrM]

If you still play wifi, but if you do, I wouldn't mind uploading your games for you. I'm not sure if you can send people your replays but if you can, HIT ME UP. I can't really do much of this at the moment, but in the near future, I will be able to.

I dont play wifi atm i plan on playn soon and you can send replays via skype if you save it to your sd card

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

I dont play wifi atm i plan on playn soon and you can send replays via skype if you save it to your sd card

Welp, whenever you start playing wifi again, give me a holler~

 

[the_irish_dude]

yo fellow marios! im getting strong interest in my tourney in April and i just want anyone who is willing to come to do it! i got Denti confirmed. he will most likely bring Infinity,Oracle,Sethlon, and Dakpo. Strong Bad is even considering to come all hte way from MO. i got interest from NM and ARK as well. im gonna put OK back on the map and i want you guys to help if you can!

p.s. why has there not been more talk about mario? he is so good. rarely has BAD matchups

EDIT
whos down for wifi? no more after may so we gotta get it on asap lol



http://smashboards.com/threads/apr-...ct-tloc-denti-norman-ok.347966/#post-16333821

 

[deadjames]

I'll most likely be coming with Strong Bad.

 

[the_irish_dude]

awesome to hear

 

[deadjames]

Yeah we also have a really sick MK player coming called Run DMX, I'm going to possibly talk a couple other players into coming too.

 

[the_irish_dude]

sweet! we need MK EXP. we have a few IVYs, a Ness, Snake, Zelda, and the rest play spacies,marth,shiek,peach. a squirtle here or there.

 

[xXDarkRisingXx]

Damn i wish i could come, im dying to make a scene,

 

[the_irish_dude]

not that far just drive to dfw or AK and hitch a ride. or if i can convince spaceballs to make it, just go to TN and hitcha ride haha

 

[xXDarkRisingXx]

Lol I just wish I had enough people that play Smash Brothers around Tampa so that I can set up a tournament in my area lol

 

[the_irish_dude]

i hosted one...now 3 months later i got over 90 people in a facebook group. now granted ok has had a smash scene in the past...but majority of those 90 are of new people. "if you host it...they will come"