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Official The Picto Box - Toon Link Video & Critique Thread

Fox Is Openly Deceptive

Smash Detective
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This is a problem I come across a lot, and I feel it's my duty as an AT informer to help in these situations.

What I'm about to say doesn't apply just to you; it applies to everyone.

If you feel like you're having to force yourself to use an AT for the sake of 'implementing it into your gameplay' this could be a sign that maybe your gameplay doesn't have room or need for that tech. The only thing you should be forcing yourself to do is the best option for that given situation (this is deliberately simplistic, but you get the idea). Hint: most of the time, the best and most effective thing to do will probably be pretty standard and totally unflashy.
So how then should you implement AT's into your gameplay if not by forcing them? It's pretty simple really. You get to know the tech by practising it outside of a real-game situation (otherwise there is the risk of forming bad habits) so that way when you find yourself inside a real game situation, you don't need to think to yourself, 'well there's a bit of a lull in the action I could probably pull 'X' off right now', instead you see the situation and you see that this situation would best be served by doing 'X' and then without having to think any further, you automatically pull it out. If you have to think further about how to do it, you need to practise it more. You shouldn't be busy thinking about how to do it or focusing on whether or not it actually worked in a real game situation. It should just be assumed that it worked and in that moment you should be thinking about e.g. will the hit connect given the opponent's positioning and available options.
'Oh but I never think about it otherwise unless I'm focusing on doing it.' This is sort of the heart of the problem. If you don't naturally think about doing it this can only mean one of two things. Either you never actually needed it (the right situation never actually arose without you forcing it) or you don't have it practised enough yet (such that any use of the tech would require additional thought).
Continually forcing situations in a game where you can pull a tech off is one way of learning how to use it, but it's not the best way imo.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
This is a problem I come across a lot, and I feel it's my duty as an AT informer to help in these situations.

What I'm about to say doesn't apply just to you; it applies to everyone.

If you feel like you're having to force yourself to use an AT for the sake of 'implementing it into your gameplay' this could be a sign that maybe your gameplay doesn't have room or need for that tech. The only thing you should be forcing yourself to do is the best option for that given situation (this is deliberately simplistic, but you get the idea). Hint: most of the time, the best and most effective thing to do will probably be pretty standard and totally unflashy.
So how then should you implement AT's into your gameplay if not by forcing them? It's pretty simple really. You get to know the tech by practising it outside of a real-game situation (otherwise there is the risk of forming bad habits) so that way when you find yourself inside a real game situation, you don't need to think to yourself, 'well there's a bit of a lull in the action I could probably pull 'X' off right now', instead you see the situation and you see that this situation would best be served by doing 'X' and then without having to think any further, you automatically pull it out. If you have to think further about how to do it, you need to practise it more. You shouldn't be busy thinking about how to do it or focusing on whether or not it actually worked in a real game situation. It should just be assumed that it worked and in that moment you should be thinking about e.g. will the hit connect given the opponent's positioning and available options.
'Oh but I never think about it otherwise unless I'm focusing on doing it.' This is sort of the heart of the problem. If you don't naturally think about doing it this can only mean one of two things. Either you never actually needed it (the right situation never actually arose without you forcing it) or you don't have it practised enough yet (such that any use of the tech would require additional thought).
Continually forcing situations in a game where you can pull a tech off is one way of learning how to use it, but it's not the best way imo.
YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES < ----- ALL MY YES x489529592533323 AND SQUARE THAT, AND THEN DO IT 7 MORE TIMES

People have a misconception that just because you can do it means you should be doing it. Sure, it can be useful, but if you're taking away from the general game plan and giving up pace or control of the match to do said tech (*hint failing IZAC*) then don't focus on it. You can practice it but don't rely on it.


Anyway, haven't posted my matches but heres some I had:
vs Zenyou (Mario)
vs BAM (Sonic)
vs Larry (Sheik) i got bodied :l
vs Alb (Sheik) 2
vs Rich Brown (Olimar)
vs K9 (Sheik) i also got bodied :l
vs Alb (Sheik) 1
 

Ryochi

Smash Cadet
Joined
May 20, 2015
Messages
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RyochiMayeabara
Some Videos of our local Toonlink/DDD player at our last tournament
2Krunkvillain :4tlink::4dedede:vs. JetA:4yoshi:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GymcROqZP8
2Krunkvillain:4tlink: vs. Thrillerman:4dedede:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5dJ2ByfW4U
Alright then....

First match critique:

Yeah Yoshi's not one of Toon Link's greatest matchups.

Pros:
You pressure people with projectiles pretty well
Keeping a mid range distance against yoshi is a smart idea.

Cons:
Everytime you use the downair, I cringe.
Taking out your projectiles in front of your opponent got you punished, yet you still did it
You barely use the fair/bair/nair combo along with the bomb which is one of his best combos
Using a fair and bair by itself is not a good idea (you suffered the landing lag afterwards)
You barely use zair

Second Match critique:

Pros:
You used projectiles to combo decently
Your defensive game looks pretty good
Towards the end of the match you started to et better

Cons:
Sometimes you are way too afraid to approach (At the start of the match specifically)
Again with the fair/bair lag
You're pretty predictable when you're trying to recover
Sometimes it looks as if you do a few attacks on impulse (I'm assuming this is supposed to go along with a projectile) even if they miss. Don't do this.
Again with the dair

Tips:
Use zair as an approach option, a retreat option, to z drop bombs, to get back onto the stage, and to make your recoveries less predictable
Use dair VERY SPARINGLY. My rule is to never use it if my opponent isn't in the air.
Don't take out projectiles in front of your opponent and learn to cancel the endlag animation (when you are catching it)
SAVE BACK GRAB. Don't just randomly use it so that it can stale
Use his bomb combos a bit more instead of boomerang. Boomerang has quite a bit of starting lag.
Don't be afraid to approach
 

Fox Is Openly Deceptive

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@TLMSheikant Great use of the short fuse bombs. I loved how smart/careful you were with the bomb pulls as well as your awareness of it's range. It's just so critically important when using short fuse bombs to make sure the bomb pulls are safe and you executed it perfectly.

The one thing I would add is that I would have liked to see more guaranteed powershield set ups. For example:

Bomb pull > buffered boomerang throw > hold shield = powershield. This can be done in the air as well, just so long as you land at some point while throwing the boomerang. You can hold shield at any point after the bomb pull, in fact, doing so guarantees that you won't mess up the timing if you're on the ground, because if you are even slightly too slow with the boomerang throw you'll blow yourself up, but if you're holding shield you'll get a roll instead which gives you plenty of time to shield the bomb.

Bomb pull > buffered grounded fire arrow > hold shield = powershield. This can't be done in the air because the aerial arrows are quicker or something which messes with the timing resulting in a normal shield and not a powershield. Again you can hold shield the whole time after the bomb throw.

Bomb pull > buffered roll forwards or backwards > buffered standing bomb throw in any direction (but down) > hold shield = powershield. You may as well hold shield the whole time after the bomb pull. The bomb throw can be a smash or a tilt throw. I personally use the c-stick/a-stick for the bomb throw part.

Bomb pull > buffered spotdodge > buffered bomb throw in any direction > hold shield = powershield.

Anyway I won't lecture you on how powershields can be beneficial for the soft throw bomb as that is self evident XD.
 

jdubYOU

Smash Cadet
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May 21, 2015
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27
Location
Tennessee, USA
Good bomb pressure and some really good instances of effective use of sword attacks in close combat situations as well. There were a few moments I saw where you tried to keep up the projectile spam when Mewtwo was pretty close to you (mid range or so), and he was able to dodge your projectiles and go in for a big punish. Toon's projectiles are not always safe up close. Boomerang and arrows both have start and end lag. If your opponent is unwilling to approach you, spam projectiles all day. If they start to approach, be mindful of how much you spam, because one misfired boomerang or arrow leaves you open.
 

LotadAlittle

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so... I want to make a video and post it here but... how? Does anyone know how to get replays on an sd card or something?
 

Theis

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so... I want to make a video and post it here but... how? Does anyone know how to get replays on an sd card or something?
you're going to need a capture device to record your replays. the game isnt simply making a video footage of your match, its literally recreating your match play by play which means transfering the replays to PC wont do you any good unless they're recorded by a capture device.
 

Theis

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I dont actually know whats a good capture device myself to be completely honest but im sure you can look around on the internet and compare capture cards to find the best one suited for your needs.
 

Mota

"The snake, knowing itself, strikes swiftly"
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Australia | Melb
Zan has one beastly Toon Link. That Utilt footstool Dair combo, does that only work on most characters or only Captain Falcon?
 

kackamee

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Zan has one beastly Toon Link. That Utilt footstool Dair combo, does that only work on most characters or only Captain Falcon?
I'd assume it works on most characters who have Falcon-esque shape/weight, like Ryu, Yoshi, Ganon, Samus, and some others. It probably works on everyone to some extent, but accounting for their weight and floatiness of course.
 
D

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Zan has one beastly Toon Link. That Utilt footstool Dair combo, does that only work on most characters or only Captain Falcon?
I'd assume it works on most characters who have Falcon-esque shape/weight, like Ryu, Yoshi, Ganon, Samus, and some others. It probably works on everyone to some extent, but accounting for their weight and floatiness of course.
It works on everyone except Yoshi/Luigi cause of their weird weight and nairs. On some characters like sheik/falcon you have to do multiple Utilts compared to MK where you can get away with one.
I do it for the swag not for optimal combos though LOL

Uhh got a few more matches though I didn't quite play my best
vs SlayerZ :4peach: LSF
 
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kackamee

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It works on everyone except Yoshi/Luigi cause of their weird weight and nairs. On some characters like sheik/falcon you have to do multiple Utilts compared to MK where you can get away with one.
I do it for the swag not for optimal combos though LOL

Uhh got a few more matches though I didn't quite play my best
vs SlayerZ :4peach: LSF
What would be more optimal?
 

Robbl

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Jun 14, 2015
Messages
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Do you guys think Toon Link's Dair needs a change? As it is, I rarely use it and I prefer dropping bombs instead of risking an Dair.
 
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Scamper52596

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Do you guys think Toon Link's Dair needs a change? As it is, I rarely use it and I prefer dropping bombs instead of risking an Dair.
What I think would make the move perfect is if it had way less landing lag if it connects with an opponent. Bowser Jr. has a similar mechanic with his D-air. That way if someone techs it, they likely won't have time to punish as Toon Link would be able to go into shield more quickly. I really don't like how Toon Link can easily get punished just for landing his most risky move if the opponent techs it. The move seems like it's supposed to be high risk/high reward, but the risk greatly overshadows the reward most of the time just because it's possible to punish Toon Link really hard even after he nails the move. Which is totally and utterly unfair.
 
D

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https://youtu.be/ves2zBPq0Zw Sorry for the quality. This is me playing against a Link on For Glory. I made a stupid mistake that got me killed.
I think it would help if you zaired more, didn't dair so much, and did more JCBTs. Zair is a much better spacing tool than fair since it has more range, much less landing lag, and can start combos. JCBTs are also great for getting in on people and starting combos. Also, when the opponent is above you you shouldn't always try to pressure them with uair, but should mix it up between uair pressure and tossing out projectiles to make their landings more difficult. Using projectiles to make it hard for opponents to land will also make their landings more predictable and easier to punish. Also, against Link you should try going off-stage to gimp him with fair rather than going for projectiles, since Link is pretty easy to gimp.
 

Moffe

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Dec 18, 2014
Messages
90
Please give some feedback :) this is vs one of the top players in my country. Pretty satisfied with last kill ;P
 
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KaosBombix

Smash Rookie
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Aug 22, 2013
Messages
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Hi ;)
I'm a french TL mainer, and I nedd some advices to get better

This is a video against a french kirby mainer :)

Thanks for advance
 

Moffe

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 18, 2014
Messages
90
Please upload more matches! Yours is the best/flashiest TL ive ever seen! :s
Thank you so much! Really appreciate it, first comment ive ever gotten on the boards yey! :D

I will try get some more, and offline too without the delay. Then i can do more fabulous moves haha! XD

Speaking of flashy, ive learnt from watching master Yacka (imo best TL out there). If you havent seen his playing you should definately check it out :)
 
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Moffe

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Dec 18, 2014
Messages
90
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ncJiBlUkP0

This is from my weekly that I went to agains't #4 in my state. Some feedback would be much appreciated
Wow nice! You got really nice movement! And good projectile control. Alooot of bombs. Only things i want to mention is that you have a few bomb pull too much maybe, i see you get punished quite hard a few times due to that. Also the ness is showing a few weaknesses with his forward b which you could maybe punish even more. He loves using it also in air which is quite punishable. But to do that you have to play more on ground also, switch it up. I see you jumping alot and you seem to do it really well with your movement, but i would at least on lower to mid percents fight closer to ground also as its easier to got utilts in and use your dash speed more as you are faster. ( i see you doing it but just wanted to mention) But i fully understand that you want to fight more in air at higher percents due to his kill throw.

I would love to see you finish stronger out of your utilt comboes I would use uair as finisher, as it has never failed me yet vs competitive people.

And with your already amazing bomb play i could imagine how good it would be with C4 techs mastered.

Nice bairs btw!

might wanna work on some fakeouts but thats just me i play for the style and hype xD, but at least catch/insta throw part of it. Lot of bombs in the air you could use instead of pulling new bombs which leaves you open too often.

Thanks for uploading, I learned alot from watching :)
 
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