Official The Picto Box - Toon Link Video & Critique Thread

[Halfy]

Can someone please anylize these videos?https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OAIF8GDtICE
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=q5zakhf-gEM

It was a bit hard to judge without seeing percentages, but I can say a few things. I noticed a lot of whiffed grabs in the falcon match, maybe try to only go for grabs when you are sure they will work. Learn all of the cool things you can do with bombs such as JC and BFO and you will notice how much more useful they become. The reason bombs are so good is because of the followups you can get out of them. Just in general you should know all of your potential followups, but idk if you were thinking about them or not.

You had a very ground-based playstyle, which I feel is common with newer players. Try to jump around more and move after you land a hit, keep evading and looking for an opening. Good movement is super important, really the first things I would say practice are JC techniques and movement.

 

[Conka01]

Toon link has a ton of kill options check out bombs away!

 

[Moobussir]

Nah, he honestly isn't all that good, that's right, I'm calling you out, Halfy ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
On a serious note, though, the main 2 things I saw were; you double jumping on stage in positions I felt it wasn't necessary, this can be punished and you may get sent off stage with no jump, that is one of the worst positions you can be in, and the second point, not getting the rang back and letting it fly past you, leaving it unusable for a couple more centuries, and when you did collect it you usually didn't cancel the lag (you can do this by doing an attack, action, such as pulling out a bomb and even just staying in shield).

I think I saw a few missed JCBTs in there too, not sure if it was intentional or not but if it was a tech error then you should definitely practice it, my preferred method of JCBTing is using around the tip of my thumb on the Y button (my preferred jump button, for X use the middle of your thumb, then slide it over to the A button) and then immediately press the A button with the middle of your thumb.

Other than that, great tink, definitely better than mine (or at least it looks to be).

You know it's funny cause most of the time I missed the boomerang, I knew exactly where it was, I was just so TERRIFIED of the catching lag that I felt it was better to avoid it LOL. Same with double jumps too. I was just very scared this entire tourney, since it was my first XD. But you're right, I need to be careful of my placements on the map, and perhaps better manipulation on the returning boomerang too? I've been working on that too, made a Kirby player super salty when his throw was interceptied into an F-Smash XD.

I also don't use JCBT's. I know it's heavily advised I do, but something about the command feels wrong. Maybe I'm not doing it correctly, but I barely feel like I'm getting a benefit for the work it takes to use the input. Any advise there? (Btw I use my 3DS as a controller, so the layout being different may be important here)

 

[LotadAlittle]

You know it's funny cause most of the time I missed the boomerang, I knew exactly where it was, I was just so TERRIFIED of the catching lag that I felt it was better to avoid it LOL. Same with double jumps too. I was just very scared this entire tourney, since it was my first XD. But you're right, I need to be careful of my placements on the map, and perhaps better manipulation on the returning boomerang too? I've been working on that too, made a Kirby player super salty when his throw was interceptied into an F-Smash XD.

I also don't use JCBT's. I know it's heavily advised I do, but something about the command feels wrong. Maybe I'm not doing it correctly, but I barely feel like I'm getting a benefit for the work it takes to use the input. Any advise there? (Btw I use my 3DS as a controller, so the layout being different may be important here)

It's the exact same method on 3ds if I remember right, just keep doing it the way I said and you should get a feel for it.

 

[Halfy]

JCBT isn't hard once you get the timing down, I can do it without thinking about it even on the 3ds version. And yeah, it is hugely important because it allows you to get guaranteed followups out of a bomb, such as nair, fair, usmash, RAR bair, etc. Sometimes even a footstool. Even if you don't use it, its worth learning because it gives you more options.

Almost forgot- you don't have to throw it forwards. You can throw it up as a mixup against players who like to shield and then use the slide to grab.

tl;dr you should learn JCBT even if you don't think you will use it

 

[_Screech_]

Can anyone send me some Zan matches? really like to see what i can pick up off of him...

 

[Moffe]

Can anyone send me some Zan matches? really like to see what i can pick up off of him...

Search YouTube :D

 

[_Screech_]

Search YouTube :D

thanks man, you are really helpful, i hope you dont get testicular cancer .love your father

 

[Halfy]

So I'm finally going to put some matches up on here. I feel like I should have done this by now, but for whatever reason I haven't. I'll upload a few matches as soon as I get home later.

 

[Snasen]

You guys can remove this message ;o;o;o

 

[Halfy]

So I'm finally going to put some matches up on here. I feel like I should have done this by now, but for whatever reason I haven't. I'll upload a few matches as soon as I get home later.

Of course, with my luck, my disc broke and the Wii u can't read it. So... Yeah. I can't put anything up nor can I play until I get a new disc, hopefully this weekend.

 

[LotadAlittle]

Of course, with my luck, my disc broke and the Wii u can't read it. So... Yeah. I can't put anything up nor can I play until I get a new disc, hopefully this weekend.

do a kickstarter: "buy me smash"
it won't be the stupidest kickstarter there is out there.

 

[Halfy]

do a kickstarter: "buy me smash"
it won't be the stupidest kickstarter there is out there.

I would do this, except I want to get a new one ASAP, and I do have money cause I just got my paycheck and it was my birthday last week so I'll just go to the store this weekend

 

[JoshuaJJG]

New combo video :D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02UnHDkrU-c

 

[G Gary Green]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EP9zs0MaJM
Here is a set I played against a falco on Smash Latter. please tell me if there anything i should be doing vs. not doing. Thanks bros :D ps. I also will be posting another match soon, just gotta find the time to capture it

 

[Moobussir]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EP9zs0MaJM
Here is a set I played against a falco on Smash Latter. please tell me if there anything i should be doing vs. not doing. Thanks bros :D ps. I also will be posting another match soon, just gotta find the time to capture it

This is my first time critiquing on this board, so I'm not sure how qualified I am, but I'd like to contribute something regardless.

I like some of the stuff you do. You had some good hard reads and punished how unsafe he was. But you were also launching lots of unsafe attacks. Hard reads are cool, but it might be better to go for more guaranteed and safe reads, say at 1:53. That boomerang would have connected to a F-air no problem, but you went for the reverse F-smash, expecting him to...somehow end up there. F-air was definitely the better option there. Try to see what combo's exist off of projectiles, cause there are lots of stylish and powerful ones, like bomb -> boomerang -> F-air.

You made good use of approaching offensively with Up-Smash when he wasn't expecting you to run in, or while he was in some sort of lag. However, you also used a lot of unsafe dash attacks as well. ESPECIALLY on shield, which you got punished for multiple times. Toon Link does a better job forcing his opponent to approach rather than approaching himself, so staying back and punishing his unsafe approaches with more projectiles would have been excellent. A combination of approaching unexpectedly offensively and staying away defensively is what makes Toon Link difficult and frustrating to fight.

Falco does have a reflector, so I noticed you used less projectiles, but I think part of the matchup vs those with reflectors is to bait out their attempt to reflect you by waiting to throw at the right time, then punishing them hard. He made very bad use of his reflector, which opened up many chances for great punishes. While Toon Link's do great off projectile combo's, those with reflectors honestly forget you can combo off of them, so you don't have to worry about getting a projectile reflected on. It's worse for them to be hit then you. Oh, and don't forget about offensive Zair to try and hit him from a distance, confusing him when he tries to reflect you.

Finally, just a nit-pick, but don't forget about your Hero's Shield when it comes to Falco's lasers. Toon Link's job is to understand your opponents patterns and break down your opponent's habits and punish them for everything. Just standing there to block the lasers would have been a mindgame alone, teaching him he can't laser safely XD

Overall, you have some great stuff, but lots of work to do to cover Toon Link's weaknesses. He doesn't play like anyone else in the cast, so it takes a long time to really optimize his stuff. I'm still not there yet either, it takes time, but you'll get there.

Sorry for the essay. tl;dr, optimize on safety and understanding your opponent's habits before going in hard.

New combo video :D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02UnHDkrU-c

Shoot I didn't notice this post. I won't leave you hanging though XD

But honestly what can I say? You have excellent reads off of your opponents, even going for double F-air followups when they shouldn't work because you know your opponents so well. I can't really say anything other then, watch the D-air's.

2:32 i cri eritime

 

[Halfy]

Its about time.

https://youtu.be/B7yZ2uJeRB4

https://youtu.be/c_IMihoY6Xs
That up tilt at 0:19 annoys me every time I watch. Should have down tilted.

https://youtu.be/yrcSLkhfM7Y
I think I pressed A too soon after dropping off ledge on that SD

 

[G Gary Green]

This is my first time critiquing on this board, so I'm not sure how qualified I am, but I'd like to contribute something regardless.

I like some of the stuff you do. You had some good hard reads and punished how unsafe he was. But you were also launching lots of unsafe attacks. Hard reads are cool, but it might be better to go for more guaranteed and safe reads, say at 1:53. That boomerang would have connected to a F-air no problem, but you went for the reverse F-smash, expecting him to...somehow end up there. F-air was definitely the better option there. Try to see what combo's exist off of projectiles, cause there are lots of stylish and powerful ones, like bomb -> boomerang -> F-air.

You made good use of approaching offensively with Up-Smash when he wasn't expecting you to run in, or while he was in some sort of lag. However, you also used a lot of unsafe dash attacks as well. ESPECIALLY on shield, which you got punished for multiple times. Toon Link does a better job forcing his opponent to approach rather than approaching himself, so staying back and punishing his unsafe approaches with more projectiles would have been excellent. A combination of approaching unexpectedly offensively and staying away defensively is what makes Toon Link difficult and frustrating to fight.

Falco does have a reflector, so I noticed you used less projectiles, but I think part of the matchup vs those with reflectors is to bait out their attempt to reflect you by waiting to throw at the right time, then punishing them hard. He made very bad use of his reflector, which opened up many chances for great punishes. While Toon Link's do great off projectile combo's, those with reflectors honestly forget you can combo off of them, so you don't have to worry about getting a projectile reflected on. It's worse for them to be hit then you. Oh, and don't forget about offensive Zair to try and hit him from a distance, confusing him when he tries to reflect you.

Finally, just a nit-pick, but don't forget about your Hero's Shield when it comes to Falco's lasers. Toon Link's job is to understand your opponents patterns and break down your opponent's habits and punish them for everything. Just standing there to block the lasers would have been a mindgame alone, teaching him he can't laser safely XD

Overall, you have some great stuff, but lots of work to do to cover Toon Link's weaknesses. He doesn't play like anyone else in the cast, so it takes a long time to really optimize his stuff. I'm still not there yet either, it takes time, but you'll get there.

Sorry for the essay. tl;dr, optimize on safety and understanding your opponent's habits before going in hard.



Shoot I didn't notice this post. I won't leave you hanging though XD

But honestly what can I say? You have excellent reads off of your opponents, even going for double F-air followups when they shouldn't work because you know your opponents so well. I can't really say anything other then, watch the D-air's.

2:32 i cri eritime

For you first critique, I'd have to say great job! I see what your saying about hard reads thing, I tend to do that reverse f-air a lot so I trying to stop that habit. Also I've been trying to master offensive and defensive Zair but I'm having trouble lol. Over all, I like what you said and I'm definitely gonna take what you said about making opponents approach Toon Link. Thanks man! :D

 

[Moobussir]

Its about time.

https://youtu.be/B7yZ2uJeRB4

https://youtu.be/c_IMihoY6Xs
That up tilt at 0:19 annoys me every time I watch. Should have down tilted.

https://youtu.be/yrcSLkhfM7Y
I think I pressed A too soon after dropping off ledge on that SD

Again I'm not sure if I'm qualified, since you've been on the boards for much longer, but allow me to provide some feedback. This is just my opinion so take it as you wish.

I like some of the use of projectiles I see in your fights. I generally thought arrows were far less useful over every other option, but you've made some good use out of them, in situations like 1:11 in your 3rd link. That being said, in some situations, I wonder if the arrows were a good choice at certain moments, like 0:37 of your first link. I see you're using them to make it harder for Dedede to land, but I feel like using bombs from below to limit his lateral movement (Since it's Dedede) would have been more effective. Just a thought though.

I'm seeing a really bad case of assumptions in these videos. Like in 0:23 of the first link, you threw the boomerang, and seeing Dedede escape it's reach, I felt like you auto-piloted to a F-air followup. Maybe I'm wrong, but that F-air was definitely still super empty. It happened in more places overall, like empty dash attacks when your opponent was behind you, but I think you get the idea. I do it too sometimes. I once threw a boomerang to the left, and while my opponent was on the right end of the stage, I just walked up slowly (to the left) and f-tilted into nothing. Seriously. It made no sense XD

I didn't play Brawl competitively, but from what I see in your gameplay, I feel like you have a lot of Brawl influence, from an almost excessive use of spacing with arrows and empty Zair's. For a player and character with so many openings, being more offensive with the sword would have been very effective against Dedede. Also, I feel like the bomb regrabbing technique, which was an extremely useful technique in Brawl, is more of a showy gimmick more then anything in Sm4sh. In the time it took for you to use it at 1:04 of the 1st link, you could have had 2 bombs on stage to disrupt Dedede, say one in the air to mess up aerial movement and one still in hand ready to approach offensively. Just my take though.

But you overall have very good techniques. Although I feel like bomb regrabbing isn't the most useful tech to learn, you used it incredibly well at 2:33 of your 3rd link. Like seriously, that was nearly jaw-dropping to watch XD. And projectile -> B-air was really effective, like at 1:03 of your 2nd link and 1:02 of your first. You have good tech skills, but don't forget about the simple applications too. Not sure if I'm qualified to say that but, some critique is better then none? Sure.

tl;dr: Pay heavier attention to both fighters and figure out more optimal techniques to fight your opponent with, and try expanding your use of other attacks and projectiles to create more options and punishes on your part.

 

[Leon_Silverleaf]

I would like to get better at Toon Link, and smash in general. I was really good at one point in time, but slowly got worse and worse at the game. Nothing in particular sparked my interest in Toon Link, but whatever it was just stuck. Be as harsh as you want, tell me everything I'm doing wrong, and everything I'm doing right. Hold nothing back.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLY-K82L7oayV7Xl8U6P38eDkd9tQ-vbj6

(Playlist of four 2 stock 3 minute matches against 2 different players)
Feel free to reply here or comment on the videos.

 

[Halfy]

I would like to get better at Toon Link, and smash in general. I was really good at one point in time, but slowly got worse and worse at the game. Nothing in particular sparked my interest in Toon Link, but whatever it was just stuck. Be as harsh as you want, tell me everything I'm doing wrong, and everything I'm doing right. Hold nothing back.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLY-K82L7oayV7Xl8U6P38eDkd9tQ-vbj6

(Playlist of four 2 stock 3 minute matches against 2 different players)
Feel free to reply here or comment on the videos.

You had a very ground-based play style, which I feel does not compliment Toon Link's strengths. I don't think I saw a single zair or nair, which are arguably some of the best options you have due to their speed. You also spammed roll, which may work against weaker opponents, but is easily read and punished at higher levels.

You seemed to fish for grabs at upper percents against the Marth, so remember that back throw is not your only kill option. Dair was also used many times, which is super easy to punish.

Toon link is arguably one of the most technical characters in the game, and unlike most characters he can not be played at a high level without his techs. JC stuff is extremely important and should be learned first.

 

[Leon_Silverleaf]

You had a very ground-based play style, which I feel does not compliment Toon Link's strengths. I don't think I saw a single zair or nair, which are arguably some of the best options you have due to their speed. You also spammed roll, which may work against weaker opponents, but is easily read and punished at higher levels.

You seemed to fish for grabs at upper percents against the Marth, so remember that back throw is not your only kill option. Dair was also used many times, which is super easy to punish.

Toon link is arguably one of the most technical characters in the game, and unlike most characters he can not be played at a high level without his techs. JC stuff is extremely important and should be learned first.

Rolling, and dairs have become habit. I find that I do it without even noticing. I need to break those habits. I definitely want to start thinking before attacking, since I seem to auto pilot often. Thank you for your input, I'll remember that!

 

[Moobussir]

I would like to get better at Toon Link, and smash in general. I was really good at one point in time, but slowly got worse and worse at the game. Nothing in particular sparked my interest in Toon Link, but whatever it was just stuck. Be as harsh as you want, tell me everything I'm doing wrong, and everything I'm doing right. Hold nothing back.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLY-K82L7oayV7Xl8U6P38eDkd9tQ-vbj6

(Playlist of four 2 stock 3 minute matches against 2 different players)
Feel free to reply here or comment on the videos.

I have notes on some of your gameplay and things I think you need to improve on, but I almost considered deleting them simply because I think the big thing you need to improve on is knowing what to do in certain scenario's. You were able to use projectiles to zone and combo, and you used sword attacks fairly effectively as well. But I think you're applying certain techniques in the wrong scenario's. The 4th link, no offense, was kinda painful to watch seeing you trying to get that grab from your opponent over and over and over. Using more spacing tools and combo's via projectiles (Bomb -> U-Smash, F-air, U-air, Boomerang -> F-air, etc) was definitely the way to go, especially combating Marth's longer disjoint from his Falchion.

I'll leave my notes here but I think you should definitely work on applying more spacing tools first, and more properly, then use sword techniques as a compliment. But I think you're not bad at all! You had some really cool tricks, like that D-throw to tech chase U-air in the 2nd video at 0:27. I'm going to remember that XD

"I wouldn't say you're a bad Toon Link player at all. I like a lot of things you do, like in the first match in general, using projectiles to limit your opponents options (And I really like the reads on 0:29, even if it wasn't guaranteed, the reads were good). But I think what you need to improve on is mixing up your game more. I feel like you had 2 modes: Long-distance battle with projectiles, and close-up mode with sword attacks. It was most evident in the first match, but in general (At least what I do is), you want to use projectiles more often in neutral, and use sword attacks as a complement to your techniques, for example as combo finishers and mix-up's.

One of the best things Toon Link has for him is the ability to limit his opponents options and confuse them, which leads into your powerful but slow (in terms of frame data) sword attacks, so using projectiles to intercept and limit/scare your opponent is a good option. Like how in the 2nd match, while edgeguarding Lucas at 0:52, using projectiles to force him into more and more unfavourable positions would have been most optimal, over the D-air's which aren't as guaranteed, great as they may have been.
(I take this back, you started doing that shortly after I finished writing this XD)

At 0:29 on the 3rd link, so you know, U-throw is a more reliable combo throw then D-throw will ever be, although I'm trying to have D-throw progress Toon Link's meta with the use of bombs during the throw, but I disgress."

tl;dr: Spacing, spacing, spacing! A more in-and-out style might be more effective, but work on being as safe as possible.

 

[Leon_Silverleaf]

I have notes on some of your gameplay and things I think you need to improve on, but I almost considered deleting them simply because I think the big thing you need to improve on is knowing what to do in certain scenario's. You were able to use projectiles to zone and combo, and you used sword attacks fairly effectively as well. But I think you're applying certain techniques in the wrong scenario's. The 4th link, no offense, was kinda painful to watch seeing you trying to get that grab from your opponent over and over and over. Using more spacing tools and combo's via projectiles (Bomb -> U-Smash, F-air, U-air, Boomerang -> F-air, etc) was definitely the way to go, especially combating Marth's longer disjoint from his Falchion.

I'll leave my notes here but I think you should definitely work on applying more spacing tools first, and more properly, then use sword techniques as a compliment. But I think you're not bad at all! You had some really cool tricks, like that D-throw to tech chase U-air in the 2nd video at 0:27. I'm going to remember that XD

"I wouldn't say you're a bad Toon Link player at all. I like a lot of things you do, like in the first match in general, using projectiles to limit your opponents options (And I really like the reads on 0:29, even if it wasn't guaranteed, the reads were good). But I think what you need to improve on is mixing up your game more. I feel like you had 2 modes: Long-distance battle with projectiles, and close-up mode with sword attacks. It was most evident in the first match, but in general (At least what I do is), you want to use projectiles more often in neutral, and use sword attacks as a complement to your techniques, for example as combo finishers and mix-up's.

One of the best things Toon Link has for him is the ability to limit his opponents options and confuse them, which leads into your powerful but slow (in terms of frame data) sword attacks, so using projectiles to intercept and limit/scare your opponent is a good option. Like how in the 2nd match, while edgeguarding Lucas at 0:52, using projectiles to force him into more and more unfavourable positions would have been most optimal, over the D-air's which aren't as guaranteed, great as they may have been.
(I take this back, you started doing that shortly after I finished writing this XD)

At 0:29 on the 3rd link, so you know, U-throw is a more reliable combo throw then D-throw will ever be, although I'm trying to have D-throw progress Toon Link's meta with the use of bombs during the throw, but I disgress."

tl;dr: Spacing, spacing, spacing! A more in-and-out style might be more effective, but work on being as safe as possible.

I think my biggest problem is that I set a mold when I started to get good at playing, then once I filled it I got comfortable. I feel I'm stuck in this play style, and that it will be difficult to adjust/change to a new one. It's been a few years, I played since brawl, and trust me nothing has changed from back then, I still play the same. I slowly discovered new tricks, but overall I still play the same. I am quite fond of an in-and-out style. I already have some great ideas in mind.

I do have a question though, what exactly is spacing? I've asked around but I haven't got a solid answer. I assume that it's just keeping distance. Throwing boomerangs, bombs, and arrows to keep my opponent away, then following up when they're incapacitated or confused. Allowing me to get a smash attack in, or possibly just a few safe hits. I've been told my sword is good for spacing, using things such as a retreating nair or a zair, remembering to keep distance and not get hit.

 

[Halfy]

I think my biggest problem is that I set a mold when I started to get good at playing, then once I filled it I got comfortable. I feel I'm stuck in this play style, and that it will be difficult to adjust/change to a new one. It's been a few years, I played since brawl, and trust me nothing has changed from back then, I still play the same. I slowly discovered new tricks, but overall I still play the same. I am quite fond of an in-and-out style. I already have some great ideas in mind.

I do have a question though, what exactly is spacing? I've asked around but I haven't got a solid answer. I assume that it's just keeping distance. Throwing boomerangs, bombs, and arrows to keep my opponent away, then following up when they're incapacitated or confused. Allowing me to get a smash attack in, or possibly just a few safe hits. I've been told my sword is good for spacing, using things such as a retreating nair or a zair, remembering to keep distance and not get hit.

Zoning is putting distance between you and your opponent in order to camp, spacing is hitting your opponents with a certain part of a hitbox to keep them too far away to counterattack, or spacing could just be being mindful of your distance to your opponent.

A good example of good spacing could be marth's tipper fsmash, you have to stay at a specific distance to land it.

 

[Leon_Silverleaf]

Zoning is putting distance between you and your opponent in order to camp, spacing is hitting your opponents with a certain part of a hitbox to keep them too far away to counterattack, or spacing could just be being mindful of your distance to your opponent.

A good example of good spacing could be marth's tipper fsmash, you have to stay at a specific distance to land it.

Oh I see, thanks for clearing that up.

 

[Vapo]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stGgMhlBWZg

Friendlies from last night. The main thing I know is that I roll too much, but further tips would be appreciated.

 

[LotadAlittle]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stGgMhlBWZg

Friendlies from last night. The main thing I know is that I roll too much, but further tips would be appreciated.

I'm so bad at dealing with projectiles lmao.

So, I didn't see it much (or maybe not at all, I can't remember) in this match, but when we were playing I noticed that you never did jcbt. I forgot to say it then... I'm not sure if you don't know how or just can't do it yet but you should definitely get it down, it's your best kill confirm. Other than that and your rolling habits, just keep doing what you're doing and you'll improve.

I also recommend not just getting others' criticism, but also watching replays yourself and seeing what you do wrong and why you get hit.

 

[Moobussir]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stGgMhlBWZg

Friendlies from last night. The main thing I know is that I roll too much, but further tips would be appreciated.

Oh God the TL vs TL matchup is like it's own category I swear XD

But in terms of basics, I noticed that some of your options were definitely out of place. Like the Up-Smash at 0:32, 1:10 and 1:32 were pretty unsafe, and then the use of arrows at 1:14 I feel was dangerous. Your Up-Smash at 1:41 was TECHNICALLY unsafe and stuff but I mean, if it works who's complaining XD

To keep my critique short (I'm working on that), I'd say your movement and stage presence needs improvement. When you're in the right place at the right time, using the right tools (projectiles) to enhance that, you're in a much more favourable position most always, and your options become much clearer and enhanced. Sometimes you were in awkward positions or doing other generally unsafe things that I feel could be improved on. Say at 1:42, projectiles may have been a better option over sword presence, since your opponent wasn't at kill percent and you have better stage presence, while your opponent was being defensive.

I know this was friendlies and you'll understand the match better but, I'd just like to chip in, whether I'm worthy or not XD

EDIT: Oh and Lotad, I'm so bad at dealing with projectiles as Toon Link that I will always lose the TL vs TL matchup XD

 

[Halfy]

Oh God the TL vs TL matchup is like it's own category I swear XD

But in terms of basics, I noticed that some of your options were definitely out of place. Like the Up-Smash at 0:32, 1:10 and 1:32 were pretty unsafe, and then the use of arrows at 1:14 I feel was dangerous. Your Up-Smash at 1:41 was TECHNICALLY unsafe and stuff but I mean, if it works who's complaining XD

To keep my critique short (I'm working on that), I'd say your movement and stage presence needs improvement. When you're in the right place at the right time, using the right tools (projectiles) to enhance that, you're in a much more favourable position most always, and your options become much clearer and enhanced. Sometimes you were in awkward positions or doing other generally unsafe things that I feel could be improved on. Say at 1:42, projectiles may have been a better option over sword presence, since your opponent wasn't at kill percent and you have better stage presence, while your opponent was being defensive.

I know this was friendlies and you'll understand the match better but, I'd just like to chip in, whether I'm worthy or not XD

EDIT: Oh and Lotad, I'm so bad at dealing with projectiles as Toon Link that I will always lose the TL vs TL matchup XD

Most people hate TL dittos.
But, I kinda like them. They show who has better projectile game of the two players. That being said, if you lose the matchup a lot you probably need to work on camping.

Oh and btw, zair is super useful in the ditto. Idk why a lot of people forget it exists.

 

[Moobussir]

Most people hate TL dittos.
But, I kinda like them. They show who has better projectile game of the two players. That being said, if you lose the matchup a lot you probably need to work on camping.

Oh and btw, zair is super useful in the ditto. Idk why a lot of people forget it exists.

I don't even think it comes down to projectile utility, since we can assumingly both use projectiles very well, yet I'll get hit and he won't somehow. It's like a test of frustration, cause whoever gets frustrated first will go for the rushdown at some point and lose even faster XD.

Zair is generally what I fall back on when I can't approach or when I deal with reflectors, and I bet many can relate XD. It works at first, but I guess the ones I fight are better at adaption or react the best and stuff. Maybe I need to train against other TL's, though I rarely fight them (TL's are rarer then Jigglypuffs I swear)

 

[ReidItAndWeep]

Hey all. I've been playing Sm4sh for a while now, but not quite at a competitive level. I decided that the character I wanted to get to that level was Toon Link so I thought I'd record me playing my bro and upload it here. Any help is appreciated. (Also, sorry for it being 360 p, recorded it in 720, don't know why it uploaded at so much less.)

 

[Halfy]

Hey all. I've been playing Sm4sh for a while now, but not quite at a competitive level. I decided that the character I wanted to get to that level was Toon Link so I thought I'd record me playing my bro and upload it here. Any help is appreciated. (Also, sorry for it being 360 p, recorded it in 720, don't know why it uploaded at so much less.)

You obviously aren't the best player. BUT, I believe you will improve much faster than the majority of players for a few reasons. You came here to ask for help, first off. You also watch your own replays and think about what you are doing specifically wrong.

Like you said in the video, you seem to forget about your projectiles or other attacks. There really isn't anything you can do to immediately fix how you play, it will come with time. Every great Toon Link player played similarly to you at one point.

There isn't much I can do for you as you pointed out most of your mistakes in the video. Really just learn when to camp and when to go in, and learn all your followups. I reccomend you go to training mode and practice movement until it looks fluid. There were times you were just standing still after throwing out an attack, but this also will get better the more you play.

Just play as often as you can and be mindful of what you are doing wrong, and save replays when you lose and watch for what you did wrong specifically and times you stood still.

 

[ReidItAndWeep]

You obviously aren't the best player. BUT, I believe you will improve much faster than the majority of players for a few reasons. You came here to ask for help, first off. You also watch your own replays and think about what you are doing specifically wrong.

Like you said in the video, you seem to forget about your projectiles or other attacks. There really isn't anything you can do to immediately fix how you play, it will come with time. Every great Toon Link player played similarly to you at one point.

There isn't much I can do for you as you pointed out most of your mistakes in the video. Really just learn when to camp and when to go in, and learn all your followups. I reccomend you go to training mode and practice movement until it looks fluid. There were times you were just standing still after throwing out an attack, but this also will get better the more you play.

Just play as often as you can and be mindful of what you are doing wrong, and save replays when you lose and watch for what you did wrong specifically and times you stood still.

Thanks for the feedback and the encouragement. Have some things to work on for sure:

• Knowing when to camp/when to go in
• Getting the movement down
• And learning the follow ups.

This info is super helpful, so thank you again!

 

[Moobussir]

Hey all. I've been playing Sm4sh for a while now, but not quite at a competitive level. I decided that the character I wanted to get to that level was Toon Link so I thought I'd record me playing my bro and upload it here. Any help is appreciated. (Also, sorry for it being 360 p, recorded it in 720, don't know why it uploaded at so much less.)

Halfy summarized it best. I think just keep playing for now and you'll learn what works best and what doesn't over time. I'd like to mention just a few tricks though, so you're aware of a few things. I hope they're helpful!

-Using projectiles to combo isn't their only use. You can get guaranteed followups using them, but their other great use is to limit your opponents options. Like how at 1:20 of your video, you threw the bomb up and really got into Ness's space. You can see your opponent's reaction to the projectiles, like the air dodges, and punish them based on that. Toon Link does great at forcing reactions and punishing them.

-As you said, be careful with your approach. Toon Link is great at forcing opponents to approach since he has such a great projectile game, and his Hero's Shield can block other's projectiles too. But Toon Link also struggles at approaching. Dash Attack is very punishable, especially on shield (Just ask Alphard), and Zair isn't the most reliable approach. Try to force your opponent to get in instead of you getting in on them.

That's all I can think of for now. Just keep having fun for now I'd say!

(Btw I love your choice of mains, those are my 3 favourites!)

 

[mdoepker]

Hey everybody! I've been a lurker here for quite a bit and recently started to post as I'm finding a bit more time to be working on my Sm4sh! I absolutely adore Toon Link but I'm really new to the game, and this character isn't really one that I'm familiar with how to play, so I'm hoping to get some feedback on how I play.

Here is a link to my Tink (I'm the green Toon Link)

I apologize about the potato quality, couldn't think of a better way to record it, and I did upload a match that I won mostly because it was a longer match and I feel like there was a definite difference between how I played in the first half and second and can't really tell what I did better/worse.

Thanks for any feedback!

 

[Moobussir]

Hey everybody! I've been a lurker here for quite a bit and recently started to post as I'm finding a bit more time to be working on my Sm4sh! I absolutely adore Toon Link but I'm really new to the game, and this character isn't really one that I'm familiar with how to play, so I'm hoping to get some feedback on how I play.

Here is a link to my Tink (I'm the green Toon Link)

I apologize about the potato quality, couldn't think of a better way to record it, and I did upload a match that I won mostly because it was a longer match and I feel like there was a definite difference between how I played in the first half and second and can't really tell what I did better/worse.

Thanks for any feedback!

I'm heading out now but I promise to take a look at this when I come back, or on the weekend!

 

[mdoepker]

I'm heading out now but I promise to take a look at this when I come back, or on the weekend!

Haha, no rush! Thanks for letting me know though

It'll just be nice to get some critique from better Toon Link mains than myself.

 

[Vapo]

snip

Here's some basic, stuff before I go to bed, I'll probably do a more detailed analysis when I wake up if no one else does.

- It's generally a bad idea to use dair, as it's very easy to avoid and punish.

- Not sure whether you don't know how or you just aren't using it, but Jump Cancel Bomb Tossing (more often known as just JCBT) is crucial for Toon Link. It allows him to get some guaranteed setups in to stuff like up-smash, and you should definitely learn how to use it.

- I'm noticing you go for a lot of risky grabs, I'd recommend only attempting to go for grabs unless you're at least like 60% sure that they'll hit. Since Tink has a tether grab, missing a grab is pretty punishable.

Overall though pretty solid play (especially that last stock), based on what I'm seeing of your playstyle it should work well in the long run (providing you work on your dairs and grabs). Sure, some random people on FG might hate you for your defensive/keep-away playstyle but who cares about them?

 

[LotadAlittle]

Hey everybody! I've been a lurker here for quite a bit and recently started to post as I'm finding a bit more time to be working on my Sm4sh! I absolutely adore Toon Link but I'm really new to the game, and this character isn't really one that I'm familiar with how to play, so I'm hoping to get some feedback on how I play.

Here is a link to my Tink (I'm the green Toon Link)

I apologize about the potato quality, couldn't think of a better way to record it, and I did upload a match that I won mostly because it was a longer match and I feel like there was a definite difference between how I played in the first half and second and can't really tell what I did better/worse.

Thanks for any feedback!

First off, and for future reference, there's a feature built into sm4sh that lets you upload your replays straight to youtube. Just select the replay and choose "upload to youtube and miiverse" or whatever it was.

Now as for your gameplay: you seem to just run away a lot. Just hitting them once and then running away like a little *****... or like a sonic main. You definitely shouldn't do this, you should do the exact opposite, in fact. Say you hit your opponent with a bomb. Don't run to the other side of the stage, **** 'EM UP!!! The main thing that makes tink playable is his amazing follow ups. Off bomb/sweetspot rang you can get so many different, strong and fabulous attacks; fair, bair, nair, uair, dair, u smash, zair, up b. Hell, off a bomb you can get a sweetspot rang into another followup! Learning all your potential follow ups is probably the first step you should take imo, while doing these you'll get a good feel for what tink can and can't do. I mean, it worked for me! Now look at me!
...
On second thought, disregard everything I just said.