Official The Picto Box - Toon Link Video & Critique Thread

[Snasen]

http://smashboards.com/threads/trea...h-lab-and-at-list.380910/page-8#post-20477540

Sorry, I was a little unclear! I meant if bair serves the same purpose on low percents. Stuff that is true combo but does not show on the combo counter.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Sorry, I was a little unclear! I meant if bair serves the same purpose on low percents. Stuff that is true combo but does not show on the combo counter.

Oh right. That's what I get for skimming.
Well yeah, it works in the same way that Jab 1 does. It might require a partial frame synch to get stuff to combo out of it at low percents though. I might look into it later.

 

[Dɛαd]

If you frame cancel the bair, you can link it to a fsmash true combo.

Edit: also I get the feeling that on low percentage we can force landing lag, or frame trap, like jab1 to dsmash. It won't show on the combo counter. Anyone researched this?

What % and which frame?

 

[LotadAlittle]

Maybe this could interest some of you..

Bair - fs - dair lol.
Did you not find it, or is it just not true? It definitely looks true at around 10%

 

[Snasen]

What % and which frame?

Well around 15-16% and up. Frame cancel happen when you hit as close to ground as possible then fast fall. It register bair to fsmash on combo counter if you do it correct. You will notice it feels close to lagless

Bair - fs - dair lol.
Did you not find it, or is it just not true? It definitely looks true at around 10%

Careful using Fs dair on low mid percent unless its a fast faller. You'll get punished. And it's maybe barely true if you are frame perfect. And you have to hit the bair on top of him. Not something I'd attempt in competitive matches xP.

 

[Tico21]

Me vs False's Ryu (I was kinda nervous)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6-1GSYMCZ0

Me vs Ash 23 (with bowser buff)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1n_MM4_WPos

Any advise/tips/observations would be greatly appreciated!

 

[Grandma Wilkins]

Me vs False's Ryu (I was kinda nervous)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6-1GSYMCZ0

Me vs Ash 23 (with bowser buff)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1n_MM4_WPos

Any advise/tips/observations would be greatly appreciated!

First off, welcome to Smashboards!

During the first game against False, I saw you dropping ledge and trying to land onstage 3 times. You did this get-up option every time the last stock, and you paid for it with your death the last time. It is crucial to mix up your getups, especially against smart players like False and Ryus in general. False made the smart move of waiting to punish so he could take your stock.

Also, during the first game I noticed that you weren’t using the platform very effectively. Getting on the platform when it is on the side of the stage provides a big advantage to Tink, as all Ryu can do is throw fireballs and approach with down b. If the Ryu does approach with downb, it is best to jump away and fastfall back to the stage to reset neutral or stay in a favorable position.

You excessively used dair as well. It only worked twice during the set, and you got punished hard almost every time. I also saw False either running up to you and shielding or approaching aerially. He was doing the shielding a lot, and not once did you throw out a grab to get him to respect you. For the aerial approaches… try to stay grounded, but do not shield too much because of focus attack.

Challenging False in the air did not work out for you very well. Because of your lack of zair, Ryu’s aerials were beating out a lot of your aerials and bomb throw because of their superior frame data and priority.

Overall, don’t get to antsy during this matchup, as the key is to set up the wall and stay grounded. If Ryu jumps, you can jump back and zair him to keep him away. And if Ryu shields, your grab is always an option to change the way he approaches.

I hope that this analysis is actually good and helps you.

 

[Tico21]

Thank you for analysis, I do need to do better at mixing up get ups i always have a tough time gettin on stage. Also against false i tried to dair alot in the air after bomb comfirms. That set was a while ago, since then I have gotten much better at fast falling and punishing with uair/nair/dair after confirming with a bomb in the air.

 

[ThatNintendoDude]

Apparently there were a couple Japanese Toon Link players that placed well in tournaments over the last day or so. I didn't see a tourney results thread on this board, so is there where I can request if anyone knows where to find the VODs?

 

[Grandma Wilkins]

Apparently there were a couple Japanese Toon Link players that placed well in tournaments over the last day or so. I didn't see a tourney results thread on this board, so is there where I can request if anyone knows where to find the VODs?

Japanese tournaments do not typically upload VODs, but I can give you some youtube links.
Umbura 21 and Sumabato 7
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCpu15uRsvI2opP78cdslj3A

 

[ThatNintendoDude]

Japanese tournaments do not typically upload VODs, but I can give you some youtube links.
Umbura 21 and Sumabato 7
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCpu15uRsvI2opP78cdslj3A

Dude, excellent. Thanks!

 

[randomguy2730]

I've made some Tink vids on my channel! Check out my most recent one! https://youtu.be/xOhvYB9X9N4
Lemme know what u think! I'm still kinda a noob at editing sooooo....

 

[Grandma Wilkins]

I've made some Tink vids on my channel! Check out my most recent one! https://youtu.be/xOhvYB9X9N4
Lemme know what u think! I'm still kinda a noob at editing sooooo....

You had some good and creative clips in there, and all good combo videos have that. But I would recommend not putting in clips that were really nothing more than FG shenanigans like the Lucas at 2 minutes.

Plus, don't use filters that can be distracting or annoying. They really take away from the combo video.

To put it simply, you had mostly good clips and good music (I would recommend something less dubstepy, but that's just personal taste). This is a pretty good start for making combo videos.

 

[randomguy2730]

You had some good and creative clips in there, and all good combo videos have that. But I would recommend not putting in clips that were really nothing more than FG shenanigans like the Lucas at 2 minutes.

Plus, don't use filters that can be distracting or annoying. They really take away from the combo video.

To put it simply, you had mostly good clips and good music (I would recommend something less dubstepy, but that's just personal taste). This is a pretty good start for making combo videos.

Thanks for the feedback! I have dropped using distracting filters in my latest video, and I also try (more now) to keep out the fg scrub clips. Thanks again for the feedback!

 

[Valoo]

My First Combo Video, Rush
Just posting here to try and get some feedback, I'd like to continue making these, and since this is my first I am open to all suggestions! I think the last combo is definitely the best one
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEMPh5d5B9M

 

[randomguy2730]

My First Combo Video, Rush
Just posting here to try and get some feedback, I'd like to continue making these, and since this is my first I am open to all suggestions! I think the last combo is definitely the best one
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEMPh5d5B9M

Nice creative clips there! As a fellow Tink main, gr8 clips. As a fellow editor, some different font choices would be good. Less tacky/corny fonts, and instead use modern, sleek fonts. Good music as well. Overall render quality is okay, perhaps informing me of the capture method? I have a capture card, but u can get away with the default replay upload function (and downloading the MP4 file from the video manager page).
Nice clips; edit could be better.

 

[Moobussir]

My First Combo Video, Rush
Just posting here to try and get some feedback, I'd like to continue making these, and since this is my first I am open to all suggestions! I think the last combo is definitely the best one
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEMPh5d5B9M

I like your traps! My favourites were the C4 at 1:10 and the bomb that let you finsh your F-Smash at 1:25!

...I wrote that before watching your last clip. That was excellent XD. Keep it up! Would love to watch a full match from you, as that can provide us with a way to comment on your total game rather than your highlights. It helps us give better advice.

 

[randomguy2730]

I like your traps! My favourites were the C4 at 1:10 and the bomb that let you finsh your F-Smash at 1:25!

...I wrote that before watching your last clip. That was excellent XD. Keep it up! Would love to watch a full match from you, as that can provide us with a way to comment on your total game rather than your highlights. It helps us give better advice.

Definitely agree.

 

[Valoo]

Nice creative clips there! As a fellow Tink main, gr8 clips. As a fellow editor, some different font choices would be good. Less tacky/corny fonts, and instead use modern, sleek fonts. Good music as well. Overall render quality is okay, perhaps informing me of the capture method? I have a capture card, but u can get away with the default replay upload function (and downloading the MP4 file from the video manager page).
Nice clips; edit could be better.

Thanks for your feedback! I tried downloading a different font to use, but I couldn't find out how to move the file to system fonts. And yeah I just upload the files to yt, crop them, put them in a folder, and then delete the video off my channel. I've checked out your channels, is there any way I could reach you to talk in private about how you edit your videos?

I like your traps! My favourites were the C4 at 1:10 and the bomb that let you finsh your F-Smash at 1:25!

...I wrote that before watching your last clip. That was excellent XD. Keep it up! Would love to watch a full match from you, as that can provide us with a way to comment on your total game rather than your highlights. It helps us give better advice.

I went and played some matches on Anthers and I couldn't help but upload this one.. I do a lot of scrubby stuff first stock but the ending is pretty sweet. Tell me what you think!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJKuz1xfHqw

 

[Moobussir]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJKuz1xfHqw[/URL]

I agree, your gameplay went up as the match went on. That being said, I will still comment on every part of your play since it's still all you.

During the beginning, you were airdodging a lot. Like, a LOT. I could see you were trying to get the bomb back, but at higher levels of play, players won't give you that kind of breathing space. Even while you and Peach were in close combat, you were air-dodging INTO her. I think you realize that was a bad choice too. Peach struggles with ranged characters like us, so make that space between yourselves. We also have one of the best rolls in the game, with it being quick and very intangible. You can make use of it to get away.

One more thing I can comment on is that you get blown up by your own bombs a lot. Not just when you lost your first stock, but in close quarters combat, you let the bomb blow up on yourself after bouncing on your opponents shield. This always led to neutral being reset, which isn't a bad thing, but idk, it doesn't seem like a good idea to be blown up a lot. You did spend a lot of time in the air, which created pressure on your opponent, but I would recommend two things in that kind of situation. One: Consider grabbing to let the bomb hit your opponent like you did when you threw the bomb up and grabbed. Two: While the bomb is present, you could jump around and create pressure just by being around, and capitalize if your opponent screws up. Idk. That just sounds like it might work XD

Anyway, that's just my piece of advice. You definitely have the style, but it's also good to improve your overall neutral/game as well

 

[Valoo]

I agree, your gameplay went up as the match went on. That being said, I will still comment on every part of your play since it's still all you.

During the beginning, you were airdodging a lot. Like, a LOT. I could see you were trying to get the bomb back, but at higher levels of play, players won't give you that kind of breathing space. Even while you and Peach were in close combat, you were air-dodging INTO her. I think you realize that was a bad choice too. Peach struggles with ranged characters like us, so make that space between yourselves. We also have one of the best rolls in the game, with it being quick and very intangible. You can make use of it to get away.

One more thing I can comment on is that you get blown up by your own bombs a lot. Not just when you lost your first stock, but in close quarters combat, you let the bomb blow up on yourself after bouncing on your opponents shield. This always led to neutral being reset, which isn't a bad thing, but idk, it doesn't seem like a good idea to be blown up a lot. You did spend a lot of time in the air, which created pressure on your opponent, but I would recommend two things in that kind of situation. One: Consider grabbing to let the bomb hit your opponent like you did when you threw the bomb up and grabbed. Two: While the bomb is present, you could jump around and create pressure just by being around, and capitalize if your opponent screws up. Idk. That just sounds like it might work XD

Anyway, that's just my piece of advice. You definitely have the style, but it's also good to improve your overall neutral/game as well

Thanks for taking the time to look at my gameplay and tell me this! I will definitely cut down on the aiddodging, watching it back it looks ridiculous how much I airdodge at pointless times. And I'll also try to pay more attention to being safe from my own bombs and using them for pressure, because getting hit by them is very annoying lol. Thanks again for the advice, I think it will help a lot

 

[randomguy2730]

Thanks for your feedback! I tried downloading a different font to use, but I couldn't find out how to move the file to system fonts. And yeah I just upload the files to yt, crop them, put them in a folder, and then delete the video off my channel. I've checked out your channels, is there any way I could reach you to talk in private about how you edit your videos?


I went and played some matches on Anthers and I couldn't help but upload this one.. I do a lot of scrubby stuff first stock but the ending is pretty sweet. Tell me what you think!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJKuz1xfHqw

You can email me at the one listed under the About tab on my channel. I love giving/receiving feedback to help others and myself become better at whatever it is. I'm by no means amazing or a pro at editing but there are some general guidelines and things to keep in mind when editing, especially a montage.

 

[Moobussir]

Thanks for taking the time to look at my gameplay and tell me this! I will definitely cut down on the aiddodging, watching it back it looks ridiculous how much I airdodge at pointless times. And I'll also try to pay more attention to being safe from my own bombs and using them for pressure, because getting hit by them is very annoying lol. Thanks again for the advice, I think it will help a lot

No problem, it's what I'm here to do XD. It's good that you're aware of where you can improve. Just don't look too down upon yourself on older footage and the such. It's all an improving process, so it's good to see how you've grown. I know I do that a lot XD

You can email me at the one listed under the About tab on my channel. I love giving/receiving feedback to help others and myself become better at whatever it is. I'm by no means amazing or a pro at editing but there are some general guidelines and things to keep in mind when editing, especially a montage.

Do you mind if I keep you in mind on that too? I'd like to make a montage of my own at some point, but I lack editing software and, most importantly, time XD. But when I get around to it, I'd appreciate any help I could get XD

 

[randomguy2730]

No problem, it's what I'm here to do XD. It's good that you're aware of where you can improve. Just don't look too down upon yourself on older footage and the such. It's all an improving process, so it's good to see how you've grown. I know I do that a lot XD




Do you mind if I keep you in mind on that too? I'd like to make a montage of my own at some point, but I lack editing software and, most importantly, time XD. But when I get around to it, I'd appreciate any help I could get XD

Sure thing! As I said before, I'm by no means as good as NPFG or Danish, but I know my way around Vegas Pro.

 

[C0rvus]

Here's a grand finals set from a college tournament. Not very good gameplay, not a set I'm proud of at all, but it's up on Youtube and figured it would be good to get some feedback on my Toon Link.

Corvus vs Toad
https://youtu.be/aKL9CjkYKoA?t=8m24s (skipped the shameful Bowser matches, they aren't relevant)

Upon watching it myself I can see a number of issues like rolling when not needed and throwing bombs at my own feet. I'd chalk it up to nerves since I was down in the set and hadn't played Tink all day, but it's kind of a persistent problem. I need to work on my movement, as I've found it pretty lacking. Not sure how to go about that.

Any feedback is welcome.

 

[LotadAlittle]

Here's a grand finals set from a college tournament. Not very good gameplay, not a set I'm proud of at all, but it's up on Youtube and figured it would be good to get some feedback on my Toon Link.

Corvus vs Toad
https://youtu.be/aKL9CjkYKoA?t=8m24s (skipped the shameful Bowser matches, they aren't relevant)

Upon watching it myself I can see a number of issues like rolling when not needed and throwing bombs at my own feet. I'd chalk it up to nerves since I was down in the set and hadn't played Tink all day, but it's kind of a persistent problem. I need to work on my movement, as I've found it pretty lacking. Not sure how to go about that.

Any feedback is welcome.

The pika was spamming thunder jolt too much, but only because you let him do it. Tink is the best character at camping in the entire game, so this shouldn't be happening. I personally play a pretty agro tink compared to most, but I still know when I need to set up walls. To get around his thunder jolts I would recommend bombs and upwards angled rang. Bombs have a set amount of health (not totally sure how much, but I think it's around 7), which means you can throw it into weaker moves, such as jabs or mario's fireballs, and it will simply absorb the damage and keep on going. This can be great if you want to approach fireball/thunder jolt camping marios/pikas because if you hit, you of course the the confirmed follow up. Rang up works because pikas will want to fh before thunder jolting most of the time so they can auto cancel it and keep moving. Since there's a period between when they'll be off the ground and using thunder jolt, a well timed rang will prevent them from putting that hitbox out a while longer, and you can potentially punish their landing (if on a stage like bf they'll probably qac to get out of your way.)

A few other things would be stuff like you fishing for up tilts too much at the beginning of games, it's really obvious and can be easily taken advantage of, but I'd say setting up walls and getting past others' walls should be your main focus for now... and getting out of rolling habits too.

 

[Halfy]

Here's a grand finals set from a college tournament. Not very good gameplay, not a set I'm proud of at all, but it's up on Youtube and figured it would be good to get some feedback on my Toon Link.

Corvus vs Toad
https://youtu.be/aKL9CjkYKoA?t=8m24s (skipped the shameful Bowser matches, they aren't relevant)

Upon watching it myself I can see a number of issues like rolling when not needed and throwing bombs at my own feet. I'd chalk it up to nerves since I was down in the set and hadn't played Tink all day, but it's kind of a persistent problem. I need to work on my movement, as I've found it pretty lacking. Not sure how to go about that.

Any feedback is welcome.

Getting smooth movement comes with experience with the character, so does throwing bombs correctly. The bombs are probably more of an input error than anything else, especially considering you mentioned you were nervous, which causes more input errors. For your movement, it will come with time using the character. Eventually the times to buffer your next input after the endlag of others will become muscle memory, don't worry too much about it but try to act as soon as possible to optimize your gameplay. What I can tell you to actually work on, is try to focus more on aerial movement than grounded movement.

Now on to specifics.

In the neutral, you REALLY should not be using forward tilt or dash attack. Projectiles, zair, and nair are your best friends in neutral. Use almost exclusively those attacks in neutral. At 14:53 Pikachu fsmashed your shield, but instead of shield grabbing him you dropped your shield and ftilted, which was slow enough for him to roll away, and doesn't have enough range to have hit him even if he didn't roll. On another note, I don't remember seeing arrows used at all. They can be used to apply pressure from across the stage, and can be used while recovering horizontally to provide some cover.

Tink... is a technical character. He requires some techs to do well in tournament, such as Jump Cancel throws and Bomb Fake Outs. These will not only give you more movement options, but also can be great mixups and can catch your opponent off guard. Most of tink's techs are not required, but I say these two are. Make sure to practice them to the point where they are just muscle memory.

What I did like about your gameplay was your usage of fsmash, upsmash, and jabs. You only used them in the correct situations. Jab however, you tried to cancel after hit 1 or 2 into other attacks. While this may work frequently, it is not guaranteed and in most situations it is better to just hit all 3 jabs. If you never finish with the third hit, your opponent will be conditioned to avoid whatever attack comes next.

 

[C0rvus]

The pika was spamming thunder jolt too much, but only because you let him do it. Tink is the best character at camping in the entire game, so this shouldn't be happening. I personally play a pretty agro tink compared to most, but I still know when I need to set up walls. To get around his thunder jolts I would recommend bombs and upwards angled rang. Bombs have a set amount of health (not totally sure how much, but I think it's around 7), which means you can throw it into weaker moves, such as jabs or mario's fireballs, and it will simply absorb the damage and keep on going. This can be great if you want to approach fireball/thunder jolt camping marios/pikas because if you hit, you of course the the confirmed follow up. Rang up works because pikas will want to fh before thunder jolting most of the time so they can auto cancel it and keep moving. Since there's a period between when they'll be off the ground and using thunder jolt, a well timed rang will prevent them from putting that hitbox out a while longer, and you can potentially punish their landing (if on a stage like bf they'll probably qac to get out of your way.)

A few other things would be stuff like you fishing for up tilts too much at the beginning of games, it's really obvious and can be easily taken advantage of, but I'd say setting up walls and getting past others' walls should be your main focus for now... and getting out of rolling habits too.

You're right, I shouldn't be letting him get his way in neutral, that's Toon Link's strong zone. I'll have to think harder about rang placement, and work on bomb placement as well. The other character that gives me grief is Mario, so I assume I need to shut out the full hop fire balls the same way. That cape though :/ Maybe I should wall with attacks rather than projectiles. Also instead of rolling, short hop air dodge, right? Gotta make it a habit, but it will come with time. Perhaps I should also use arrows? Never sure when they are appropriate aside from sniping a missed tech.

Getting smooth movement comes with experience with the character, so does throwing bombs correctly. The bombs are probably more of an input error than anything else, especially considering you mentioned you were nervous, which causes more input errors. For your movement, it will come with time using the character. Eventually the times to buffer your next input after the endlag of others will become muscle memory, don't worry too much about it but try to act as soon as possible to optimize your gameplay. What I can tell you to actually work on, is try to focus more on aerial movement than grounded movement.

Now on to specifics.

In the neutral, you REALLY should not be using forward tilt or dash attack. Projectiles, zair, and nair are your best friends in neutral. Use almost exclusively those attacks in neutral. At 14:53 Pikachu fsmashed your shield, but instead of shield grabbing him you dropped your shield and ftilted, which was slow enough for him to roll away, and doesn't have enough range to have hit him even if he didn't roll. On another note, I don't remember seeing arrows used at all. They can be used to apply pressure from across the stage, and can be used while recovering horizontally to provide some cover.

Tink... is a technical character. He requires some techs to do well in tournament, such as Jump Cancel throws and Bomb Fake Outs. These will not only give you more movement options, but also can be great mixups and can catch your opponent off guard. Most of tink's techs are not required, but I say these two are. Make sure to practice them to the point where they are just muscle memory.

What I did like about your gameplay was your usage of fsmash, upsmash, and jabs. You only used them in the correct situations. Jab however, you tried to cancel after hit 1 or 2 into other attacks. While this may work frequently, it is not guaranteed and in most situations it is better to just hit all 3 jabs. If you never finish with the third hit, your opponent will be conditioned to avoid whatever attack comes next.

I'm not too good with those bomb tricks, so it's off to the lab for me. I know some air stuff, like I can double jump after fair but not any other aerial, and SH air dodge > nair or up air is a nice mixup. But you're saying mostly attack from the air or with bombs? That makes sense. Tink's ground game is mediocre. Speaking of which, I'll stop f-tilting; should I just down tilt in that shield drop scenario? Ideally I should have a bomb and get a confirm, but that obviously doesn't happen all the time.

The advice is very much appreciated, both of you. We finally have another Smash 4 event at the same place tonight, so I'm going in swinging. Hopefully they upload sets faster so I can share again soon. Thanks!

 

[LotadAlittle]

You're right, I shouldn't be letting him get his way in neutral, that's Toon Link's strong zone. I'll have to think harder about rang placement, and work on bomb placement as well. The other character that gives me grief is Mario, so I assume I need to shut out the full hop fire balls the same way. That cape though :/ Maybe I should wall with attacks rather than projectiles. Also instead of rolling, short hop air dodge, right? Gotta make it a habit, but it will come with time. Perhaps I should also use arrows? Never sure when they are appropriate aside from sniping a missed tech.

I like to zair a lot more against mario. It beats fair, spaces, gives some great follow ups, why wouldn't you use it? One of the most important things about learning tink other than kill set ups and zoning is, imo, getting into the habit of using zair to space in the neutral. It can also of course beat the cape, which can open some good opportunities for mind games, they'll need to think twice before caping.

 

[Halfy]

I like to zair a lot more against mario. It beats fair, spaces, gives some great follow ups, why wouldn't you use it? One of the most important things about learning tink other than kill set ups and zoning is, imo, getting into the habit of using zair to space in the neutral. It can also of course beat the cape, which can open some good opportunities for mind games, they'll need to think twice before caping.

who said anything about mario?

EDIT: this is why we read everything

 

[C0rvus]

I said he gives me a hard time. Harder than Pikachu. Fox does too, actually. But that's really a discussion for the MU thread.

 

[Halfy]

I said he gives me a hard time. Harder than Pikachu. Fox does too, actually. But that's really a discussion for the MU thread.

oh lol I must have missed that

 

[Halfy]

yes I am aware this is a double post
but I want to see someone r8 my tink

vidya 1
vidya 2
vidya 3

yes I know that I jump off ledge too much

 

[Grandma Wilkins]

yes I am aware this is a double post
but I want to see someone r8 my tink

vidya 1
vidya 2
vidya 3

yes I know that I jump off ledge too much

Video 1: Not much to report here, but a good chunk of your damage was taken off you choosing bad options when Meta Knight was landing, but also when you were landing. You really should have used projectiles more often and given yourself more space. As a Toon Link player, sometimes you just have to run away and throw projectiles against characters with punish games as good as Meta Knight's. You shouldn't go for grabs for damage against meta knight, as the risk for a hard punish outweighs the reward you get for landing a grab. Overall you just got outplayed here.

Video 2: Just all around great play here. Much better use of bombs and projectiles, good and safe pressure, this is exactly how to play against Meta Knight. But you can tell that the other player was not doing well here.

Video 3: You played better this match, but Meta Knight is stupid. When looking the time you almost got meta knight combo'd to death in the beginning, you made a bad decision after you played yourself (my term for hitting yourself with a bomb). Whenever you play yourself, always try to run away in some direction, never counterattack, as the opponent 9 times out of 10 will run in for a hard punish. And we've talked about Meta Knight's punishes. Never throw a bomb right when you're about to grab ledge, as that just leaves you wide open for a character to gimp you as tink's recovery sucks. When you were trying to end the game, you were a little scared of losing. Twice you had guaranteed follow-ups off of projectiles and both times you just defended instead of attacking. You have to be confident in securing a game, especially when you have a lead as big as you did.

Overall, these games show what is like to play against Meta Knight. Sometimes you get bodied, other times the other person gets bodied, it can go either way.

 

[randomguy2730]

Well, I'm sure all of you know these techs or at least most of them, but I'd like to post my video on the different bomb tosses that Tink can perform. Jump-cancel, Turn-cancel, "Z turn-cancel" and shield-cancel tossing are demonstrated.

Watch this!

Again, any feedback is appreciated!

 

[Bdude]

Doubles from Smashkatoon 13
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSi0wBw75Bw (felt we didn't do terrible here, I need to work on my 2v1's)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqQOWEKeYFA (we got rekt here, totally outplayed)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3deECdWHniI (bit better, still sloppy in parts)

Basically posted these ones because I haven't played to much doubles so would like to know what I should be doing differently in the teamwork section of it.

Singles from Smashkatoon 13
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8HYQ-pmk60 (I need to work on this Cloud MU so any and all tips are great!)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pocGrpACs4A (Our top player who is great at safe play, also need tips here)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pK-LTnZk8w0 (This is what happens when Mario doesn't play safe lol)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3q_LZI8bfFI (The SD at the end was after missing so many kill confirms I felt I couldn't bring it back. Terrible mindset but near the end of the day and playing that sloppy game 3 I felt it was necessary. Still need tips.)

In case you are wondering about some of the rogue dairs, those were me thinking i had a bomb so wanted to throw down but turns out I didn't. One problem I seem to have when listening to music. Since I don't really look at myself in the match. New thing is glance at myself when I pull bomb, but I like to see what the opponent does when I do pull bomb wherever I am. But yeah, 2 Cloud and 2 Mario in my bracket. Two of our more difficult MU's imo and ones I need to work on as well.

 

[Grandma Wilkins]

Doubles from Smashkatoon 13
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSi0wBw75Bw (felt we didn't do terrible here, I need to work on my 2v1's)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqQOWEKeYFA (we got rekt here, totally outplayed)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3deECdWHniI (bit better, still sloppy in parts)

Basically posted these ones because I haven't played to much doubles so would like to know what I should be doing differently in the teamwork section of it.

Singles from Smashkatoon 13
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8HYQ-pmk60 (I need to work on this Cloud MU so any and all tips are great!)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pocGrpACs4A (Our top player who is great at safe play, also need tips here)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pK-LTnZk8w0 (This is what happens when Mario doesn't play safe lol)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3q_LZI8bfFI (The SD at the end was after missing so many kill confirms I felt I couldn't bring it back. Terrible mindset but near the end of the day and playing that sloppy game 3 I felt it was necessary. Still need tips.)

In case you are wondering about some of the rogue dairs, those were me thinking i had a bomb so wanted to throw down but turns out I didn't. One problem I seem to have when listening to music. Since I don't really look at myself in the match. New thing is glance at myself when I pull bomb, but I like to see what the opponent does when I do pull bomb wherever I am. But yeah, 2 Cloud and 2 Mario in my bracket. Two of our more difficult MU's imo and ones I need to work on as well.

I only know how to analyze singles matches.

Spoiler: Singles Set 1

Game 1
1:10 - Uair in this situation, as it was very unlikely that the Cloud could block in time to cancel out the bomb, and dthrow bomb to falling uair is almost always guarantted.
1:32 - Unless you're 99% sure it will hit, NEVER throw out a grab against limit Cloud, especially when your throws can't kill.
1:40 - Great setup, as the other player being in between you and the boomerang gives your opponent very little options, and he chose the wrong one.
2:05 and 2:30 - You really have to be more careful on your recovery options, obviously marked by your 2 SDs. Pretty sure the reason that tether didn't work here is that you used it too quickly after airdodge. Also make sure to not upb when you're too close to snap to ledge.
Not counting the your air dodge tether attempt, you only used airdodge, shield, and rolls twice all throughout the second stock. Cloud has a lot of trouble against shield, so it is sometimes best to just let him grab you once or twice, then pretend to hold shield at his kill percent AND JUST FORWARD SMASH.
Also I saw you throw and pull projectiles a couple times either right by his shield, or in his punish distance. Boomerang on shield is the most unsafe thing you can do with the exception of dair.
Never saw him jab once this game. Some dtilt shield pressure would have given him a lot of trouble.
Game 2
3:05 - LOL RIP
I don't like the Battlefield counterpick here. I think that town and city or smashville would be good here, as you can both wall him out in those stages and prevent limit camping. I may be a bit biased here, as I personally do not like playing on battlefield with Toon Link.
3:58 - The reason that you got all that damage is that you were able to combine Tink's camping and zoning with close range pressure. That gives a lot of characters trouble, and can cause many a player to get flustered.
4:10 - You could have gotten punished way harder for that dair. But everybody here is guilty of trying to use that as a mixup at one point in a match.
4:30 - Very smart play, as whenever a Cloud recovers high, 80% of the time he will use the landing hitbox. Great job in avoiding and punishing.
5:20 - You got very lucky that you didn't get killed here. You initiated upb a bit too early and he should noticed that and punished your inability to snap.
5:30 - That move has enough endlag to always warrant an ftilt punish.
6:47 - Good bomb confirm to end it.
All around better play here, looks like you got a good download on this Cloud.
Game 3
7:20 - A lot of players with fast characters will do this once the notice the start of the bomb pull, so be careful of this.
7:40 and 7:45 - Missed opportunities for follow ups. Be confident that you're projectiles will hit.
7:57 - A nair and possibly dair would have hit you. This Cloud didn't like using those moves, but higher level players will use those moves a lot more.
8:50 - Fair or dair would have ended the set right there. If Cloud only uses the first part of recovery, always throw out an aerial to hit him.
8:57 - Just because you got the kill doesn't mean you chose the best option. Given how far he was away, you should have just sat at the edge of the stage, waiting to dair his recovery.
You did very well that second stock simply because you spaced him out very well. That combination of projectile and aerial pressure really gives Cloud a lot of trouble.
SEE WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU GO TO SMASHVILLE? HUH? 2 STOCKS HAPPEN.sorry

Spoiler: Singles Set 2

Game 1
I saw a good chunk of your damage this first game from dropping down from platforms. When you do this and cannot throw a bomb down, Mario will be in a great position to apply damage and pressure safely. Really every time you were above your opponent this game, he put himself in a position that gave you little offensive options while remaining safe at the same time. Oh yeah, don't take Mario to Battlefield. He takes great advantage of the platforms and his fireballs and pressure become very tough to deal with in this matchup. Even though I can tell you're the time of Tink that likes Battlefield, it is not worth it to go there against Mario. I would say go to wide stages with little platforms, Duck Hunt and Smashville are probably best.
Mario's nair chases give Tink's bomb pulls a lot of trouble, as many times you may find yourself being hit with the tail end of that hitbox. Just run away and use a projectile at a safe distance when you see this.
3:23 - Once again, be careful when recovering. That uair hitbox lasts longer than you think.
You didn't use zair a single time this whole match. That move absolutely kills Mario's spacing, and can really mess up you're opponent's strategy.
One thing I noticed about him is that he likes to wait on the ledge for a little while. Go over and ledge trump a player like that once in a while.
I would also say that you should have been more aggresive with your projectiles. That guy must have forgotten that his cape existed, and that is the one thing that keeps Mario from getting bodied by projectiles. Throw in some b-reversed arrows for movement while you're at it too.
Game 2
4:25 - When a Mario is just sitting below you, don't pull out a bomb. Just zair, fair/bair, or air dodge instead.
4:40 - Be more aware when someone with an upb that kills is below you, even after you're hit. You could have just air dodged, and even if he read that, you could have DI'd and survived.
4:55 - FeelsBadMan. But remember that your upb can't snap that low.
One thing that I noticed about this guy is that he has a fantastic neutral, but his punish game was lacking, along with his tech skill. His reactions seem to be subpar too, shown by his slowness to punish at 1:30. Just camp out this man and play safer than him. Pick wider and flatter stages as well, especially against Mario. That's what you chose when you picked this character on the Select Screen.

Spoiler: Singles Set 3

Game 1
1:03 - Bomb to dash attack isn't a good combo, go for usmash instead. Similar start-up time, but much more damage and range. Safer too. Toon Link's dash attack just flat out sucks.
1:23 - As I said earlier, being above Mario on a platform is a bad spot to be in, but Mario being above you on a platform is almost as bad for Mario. You had some good bair and uair pressure here.
1:55 - This reminds me, fireballs are great against Tink. Lucky for you, he wasn't using them much, but when they are used, roll in to avoid them when they're shot from that high angle.
2:05 - Never seen this option before, but that is a great idea. Maybe finish off the combo with an unsnapped upb. Good for damage, but puts Mario in a pretty good fireball spot. And you get caped if you miss. Still a good combo, but it will probably work better on other characters.
2:18 - Optimal edgeguard. Good job.
2:45 - When a Mario short hops toward you, the last thing you wanna do is run towards them. The safeness and frame data of bair and nair almost guarantee you'll get hit.
No really big issues to report this game that I haven't addressed already. But again, don't take Mario to Battlefield. The platforms let him use safe aerials as much as he wants, and they can extend his combos greatly. But when Mario is on one of the side platforms across from you, throw an angled upward boomerang. Very safe and can just add that small amount of damage that makes all the difference in close matches. I would also like too see some more jab and dtilt.
Game 2
3:50 - LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, WE HAVE A CAPE!
4:03 - Great punish. Marios will often go for fireball in that position, so take advantage of Tink's small size and duck under them and fair.
1st stock - Great projectile pressure all around. Because he wasn't using the cape, he really had no safe option of breaking through that wall and starting combos.
4:25 - Very bad bomb pull. No matter what the character, always be aware of your opponent jumping towards you if you plan on pulling a bomb.
4:59 - The download is complete. Don't do fireballs when Tink is in that position.
Great game all around, it really seemed like you had this guy completely downloaded.

I'll look at the rest when I have time this weekend. Look out for edits here.

 

[Bdude]

Thanks a lot for the info. Great to get another viewing on it. Looking forward to the next analysis'. I do need to work on zair more. The UpB to get past ledge was on purpose tried to get him by surprise. For how safe and spacey he likes to play I need to play that game more since Tink can tool him out (as you said with zair and more projectile play) and not to go as aggressive as I want. Cuz I do do that sometimes if the player allows me as you will see in set 3 lol.

 

[Bdude]

Large regional (large for us lol, all the big boys were here for this one)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58WsswnB4Tc&index=1&list=PL2yYac1XJ8vbD2DTHmbzULXx96l4qPkx_
-still gotta lab about my cloud problem.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgdVKnA7Dhg&index=3&list=PL2yYac1XJ8vbD2DTHmbzULXx96l4qPkx_
-idk, just watch i guess.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWsMDjEuHcs&index=10&list=PL2yYac1XJ8vbD2DTHmbzULXx96l4qPkx
-one of our top 10 players, close matches lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSy-d13Fg2I&index=13&list=PL2yYac1XJ8vbD2DTHmbzULXx96l4qPkx_
-I feel this match shows off how you can take advantage of Wario's saving waft for stock 2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JLsEB0SJpE&index=14&list=PL2yYac1XJ8vbD2DTHmbzULXx96l4qPkx_
-our top player on his secondary, got greedy and took the loss is the situation here

Again all tips are welcomed as I'm still a growing player. Few kinks to work out (some pretty obvious like going for a reverse UpB hoping i can catch them with it to send them off stage and then getting fsmashed and dying lol).

 

[SmashvilleProds]

(vod) https://www.twitch.tv/dabuz18/v/57698341 The match I want analzyed starts at 16:40

Ok so I played DABUZ and I got bodied lol. I've analzyed most of my mistakes and it helped me improve a lot within just one day. Try to give tips that aren't extremely obvious pls.

thanks